Why Was Galileo on Trial for Heresy?

[@_ArsNova]

The world runs on a series of oversimplified "bite-sized" historical narratives, Galileo is no exception. Thanks for expanding on him and his clash with the church, and adding some nuance.

[@davidhawley1132]

If you do as Dr Reeve suggested and look up the 'war between religion and science', you'll find it was invented by polemicists on the science side. One has to realize that absolutely everything will be used by somebody to forward an agenda. That doesn't invalidate that which is being used instrumentally, but it should caution us about gathering around the flags being waved in our faces.

[@letsgetrich7724]

I say this with love as I want you to know the truth. Watch flat earth Dave. You will not believe in the heliocentric model. I BEiLeVe THe HeLiOCenTriC MoDel AnD HaVe nO IdEa WhAT iT iS!🤡🤡🤡 NASA means “deceive” in Hebrew! God>NASA ✝️>✡️👹

[@jhoughjr1]

A very true observation .

[@jhoughjr1]

Like to add some nuance , my noticing was a byte sized observation lol

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

Well said. And one got to cringe when the worshippers of pseudo-science try to invoke Galileo alleging that Christianity was ever hostile to real science. They are wrong on all the points. For starters Galileo was busy with an astronomical model, not with science proper, which is about proving causal relationships experimentally and logically (scientific method). So the dispute was about cosmology, not about 'science'. It was other academics that had a beef with Galileo, since his views deviated from academic consensus of the time. Since the Catholic Church had some authority they dragged it into it. Today the opponents of Galileo would do that differently of course... They'd invoke their own authority and 'scientific consensus' (an oxymoron, btw) to do that. Galileo got his chance to present his views, but his mode of proof was faulty... And that's why the Ptolemaic view 'won' the case against Galileo at the time being. People also miss the point that the scientific method developed from Christian philosophy of the Middle Ages. So the whole 'religion vs. science' narrative is actually a lie. It's a myth the secularists must entertain to get over the fact that their 'scientific progress' came from Christianity and not from Atheism/Agnosticism.

[@onellbrianmeliston8960]

He's back!! Dr. Reeves is back!!

[@Chirhopher]

Amen. And for Good Reason, even Defending The FAITH, once for all [time] Delivered to The SAINTS. All Science is Based on ... GOD. Please ask! Lol-)

[@jhoughjr1]

A voice I didn’t realize how much I’d missed !

[@alleadonai]

Wow! He's been back for a couple weeks but I'm super excited! 🎉

[@thisgeneration2894]

😮

[@SvetlanaVladimirova8590]

You make Dr. Reeves sound like the Terminator. 🤩😎

[@marcuscurtismusic]

This is the best church history channel on KZbin. Thank you Ryan for all your hard work.

[@Ken-fh4jc]

I’m not even religious and still really enjoy this channel. So glad he’s back I figured this channel was dead.

[@m.streicher8286]

@@Ken-fh4jc You certainly don't need to be religious to find religious history interesting

[@joecostello2833]

Pope Leo X stated loudly and publically that the Catholic Church never had and never would condemn Copernicanism.

[@LeoxandarMagnus]

It is just so important not to divorce Galileo’s Trial from what was actually going on around him. I’m so glad you emphasized that.

[@SurelyLord]

Spoken like a true historian. Context is king, queen, bishop and rook in history.

[@MagsterKeef]

You're active again!!! Your videos are iconic for me throughout the years. Love your work 🎉

[@edgabel6814]

Nicely done. Back in the late 1980s and early 90s I did a one man show as Galileo in schools and museums. From what was able to learn, Galileo was a rather argumentative man who sometimes embarrassed and angered men publicly. He was at times protected by powerful friends. Pope Urban VIII had been a friend when they were young. I am convinced that the protected Galileo from a worse fate. I considered this show/teach in to be one of the most important things I ever did in my professional life, maybe the most important. Great job. Thank you for doing such a comprehensive presentation.

[@darthcarto]

Just wanted to let you know, I have loved your lectures and info for years. My 13 year old has started watching. I showed him some of your your Tolkein and Lewis lectures, and he can't get enough. Thank you so much for such an invaluable resource!

[@BrazilianPride22041]

It's also worth noting that Galileo's model actually had less predictive power than the Ptolemaic model, it would take Keplar's use of ellipses to do better. So even by a modern scientific standpoint, Galileo's stubbornness was unjustifiable

[@robertmurphree7210]

There was no proof during the 17nth century that the earth moved. A widespread, well-accepted compromise was Tycho Brahe's Geo-Heliocentric system with stationary earth, with sun rotating around earth, planets rotating around sun. Geometrically identical with the motions of the copernican system. Galleo's rapid rise from 1610 with the telescope with the city fathers, led him to believe he could argue the church into changing its theology to meet his ideas. Galileo was a loyal, believing catholic who wanted to benefit the church, but he did it in an arrogant, pig headed way.

[@robertmurphree7210]

Tycho Brahe's Rudolphine tables 1627 were better than Alfonsine tables 1252. from Copernicus' work, The Prutenic [prussian] 1551. Kepler published from his elliptical model the Rudolphine Tables 1627, which were really good. You could say the copernican derived table were "galileo's table".

[@jceepf]

What you say is true. For practical calculations, it was better to use the Ptolemaic model at that time for practical calculations. Strange resonances also in the orbit period (2/5) etc appear graphically if you put the Earth at the centre. So there are some advantages to the complex Ptolemaic system. It is really Newton's Law that makes the Heliocentric model more "logical", although you can use any system of reference to compute Newton's trajectories (especially on a computer).

[@robertmurphree7210]

@@jceepf Copernicus' tables were better than the ptolemaic tables, Kepler's Rudolphine tables were better still. the Rudolphine tables were good enough they could predict the transit of mercury across the sun.

[@jceepf]

@@robertmurphree7210 I think you are partly correct on Copernicus and certainly correct on Kepler. However, you provided the correct definition of Heliocentrism. I wish the video had mentioned your implied point. The Sun is not at the centre of the universe but it is the best place to minimize the number of epicycles (Fourier terms in effect) necessary to refine the predictions. So if you start with Copernicus, you reach high precision rapidly. Ergo tables derived from Copernicus were more accurate with less work. Today we could put the centre of the solar system on Saturn and use 100,000 epicycles for many planets and beat any system of the Renaissance. But of course it is ridiculous: in all physics calculations we try to choose the system of reference judiciously, ie, Copernicus.

[@profdrmac5231]

I am so glad you are back; I used your videos to teach church history. I am a massive fan of the history of science, and your presentation was very well done; please keep doing videos.

[@justinkeen5614]

Thank you so much for these videos, just finished “how we got our Bible” the other day and can’t wait to read and listen to more.

[@thepreacherxi5353]

I became “addicted” to your videos when it seems you take a break from KZbin. Thank God your back!

[@darielarchuleta6229]

The way that I had heard the story, was that a duchess had read the first book that Galileo had written. She wrote a response letter to him expressing that the book had contradicted the bible passage in Jashua where it says that God stop the sun. Galileo responded with a letter back suggesting that God could stop the sun by stopping or slowing the earth's rotation. You see a major difference between the geocentric model and the heliocentric model, besides that the sun is in the center, is that the earth spins. as I understand it, Galileo's letter was taken to a priest. The priest was offended by the letter because it seemed like Galileo was usurping the authority of the church in matters of interpreting the bible. That is why Galileo went to the church to clear his name. I'm not sure if that is true or not but that is what I heard. On the subject of the perfect orbits of the planets. It may be that the common people were unaware of retrograde motions of the planets, however it was well known to astrologers for thousands of years. this is known because in astrology a planet in retrograde has alternate meanings to its standard meaning. In astronomy the retrograde motion of the planets occurs when, for example, the earth passes the planet mars. When mars is closest to the earth it will appear to go backwards in the night sky. This is because earth is going faster than mars. A simplified example of this optical illusion would be. Imagin that you have two cars going in the same direction, but one car is going faster than the other, the two cars appear to be going in the same direction until they are side by side, at that point the slower car appears to be going backward until the faster car passes it, from the perspective of a passenger in the faster car. The discovery of the Galilean moons was one of the major breakthroughs in heliocentrism. This is because it was the first time that objects were seen orbiting another celestial body. the closest moon Io makes a complete orbit in roughly two days. Questions Was the story of the duchess true? Was Galileo allowed to keep his telescope after being put under house arrest?

[@RyanReevesM]

That's essentially the right way to see it. I skimmed the story about how he first got accused. It was done in private letters which was the story of the duchess. There's also a Dominican vs Jesuit tension in that story that I couldn't go into. I tried to avoid too many factors that make it sound like Galileo was "wrong man at the wrong time" or that he was just a victim of circumstances. Stay focused on the science. But the human factor is not small. Yes, he continued to have his instruments, though by then he was aged and his eyesight was failing. The house arrest, while a shame, had a tone of "go live out your old age quietly" to it. His fighting days were already over.

[@MrISkater]

@@RyanReevesMmolinism vs thomism?

[@janej6253]

Love these lessons. So glad you’re back!

[@benedictchinweuba5820]

Dr. Reaves, YOU ARE A TREASURE TO US ALL! It's an honor to have you back!

[@carynfisher9463]

TIL you're still putting videos out! Today is a good day. EDIT: I sent my daughter the link for this vid. She was freaking out, panicking because she needed to give a presentation on "anything she wanted as long as it was school appropriate" as part of the application process for her school's mock trial program (she's in the 7th grade). She got accepted to the program! Thanks, Professor Reeves!

[@josiahfitch]

Good to see you posting content again!

[@TheModernHermeticist]

Grateful to have you back Ryan.

[@avarihurin760]

Dr. Reeves, welcome back!!!! I'm waiting for years!!!

[@johnhaynes9910]

Very glad to see you back again, I was always a great fan of your work because you are so balanced in your explanations, best wishes for your future.

[@SKMikeMurphySJ]

he's balanced! "Anti-Catholicism is the deepest held bias in America" Arthur Schlesinger "The United States is at war with Catholicism" ~ Noam Chomsky

[@ComandoWitty]

In my opinion, the church wanted to preserve the truth. The church around this time was what held society. Just at the church attempted to keep a stronghold on how the bible was to be translated and taught, did the church do with theories and information. Take what I say from this point as (trust me bro evidence), but if I recall, one reason Galileo was summoned was because he was teaching a mere theory which wasn't official. When Galileo was question about his theory, there were things he couldn't defend because he didn't know. Hence the church wasn't a fan of someone teaching a theory as if it was a fact

[@letsgetrich7724]

I say this with love as I want you to know the truth. Watch flat earth Dave. You will not believe in the heliocentric model. I BEiLeVe THe HeLiOCenTriC MoDel AnD HaVe nO IdEa WhAT iT iS!🤡🤡🤡 NASA means “deceive” in Hebrew! God>NASA ✝️>✡️👹

[@1969cmp]

The Aristotlian and Ptolmaic philosophers didn't like being challenged on their geocentric veiws, either. And they had a lot of weight in the debate.

[@grantgooch5834]

@@1969cmpIt's not that they didn't like being challenged; it's that Copernicus and Galileo were demonstrably false both then and now. Basically the only thing the Copernican model gets right is that the sun is the center of the solar system, everything else was wrong. Galileo's primary argument for his view was that the tides are caused by the movement of the earth, and everybody knew that was wrong both then and now. It wouldn't be until Newton and Kepler came along when the observational technology and math were developed enough to confirm a heliocentric model.

[@1969cmp]

...in the scheme of things, they did a pretty good job of creating a stepping stone in knowledge.@@grantgooch5834

[@andrewleyden2752]

And that justified a trial and conviction?

[@EarInn]

For a window on Galileo and his times I recommend the book Galileo's Daughter by Dava Sobel. Essentially a biography of Galileo, it's beautifully written and really brings to life the state of scientific understanding in Italy at the time and the day-to-day realities of ordinary life.

[@markawbolton]

Dava Sobel is a beautifull Science writer...

[@daric_]

Glad you're back, Dr. Reeves. I am a professional scientist and Christian, and I am considering doing a master's in science and Christianity. Videos like this only further push my curiosity to study the subject more in depth. Thank you for all you do.

[@laurapeter3857]

Would love to see videos on Tycho Brahe, Johaness Kepler, Nicolas Copernicus - everyone who preceded Galileo.

[@thomasc9036]

Only Copernicus preceded Galileo.

[@darkogrosev4288]

Good point. I would add Giordano Bruno.

[@tuppybrill4915]

Thank goodness we now live at a time of objective science when societal decisions are based on empirical evidence and unbiased experimentation. Can you imagine what it would be like if science was distorted through coercion by politicians and big corporations were more interested in profit than human well being ... Oh. Wait.

[@StudentDad-mc3pu]

Or the president thought he knew more about science than scientists. Oh wait.

[@harleydavo1099]

This is satire, I hope.

[@mercster]

So glad you're making videos again sir, thanks a lot.

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

Woah, I was not expecting to see this channel pop back up on my feed today.

[@DrunkenHotei]

Thank you for being the first on YT to tell the true story. I learned it from a book called "The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Physics" (or perhaps "...Philosophical Foundations..."). I'm so tired of even reputable sources just saying "cuz he said the earth moved around the sun". Bravo, good sir.

[@2A_Syndicate]

So glad you’re back, Ryan. Love your history lessons.

[@omnikevlar2338]

Great video! Learned a few things here in there. I’d say still my point is that Bellarmine mentions how he isn’t convinced of Galileo’s claim but if proven to be true he will reinterpret the scriptures. My takeaway is there isn’t enough humility with religious followers of their religious texts to acknowledge when they contain errors. And the problem gets worse when people take abusive measures to control of others to get them to think as you.

[@MoonbaseEagle1]

It is great to have you back. Your lectures are so informative and needed for theological clarity. I would also recommend the book “Galileo’s Daughter” by Dava Sobel for a unique perspective on this fascinating topic.

[@Sarahhannahtx]

Oh I’m so happy you are back!! I instantly clicked on this video when I saw it.

[@jceepf]

Very good video. Thanks. PS Small correction: Subatomic particles were painfully detected before the LHC. For example, the Omega-minus was experimentally discovered in BNL in 1963 and led to a Nobel prize for Gell-Mann who theorized it. CERN discovered the Higgs particle at LHC.

[@owenbrown3690]

This guy makes fantastic content, disappears for years, and then comes back with a belter of a video. Really glad to see it

[@entertheabzu]

Really interesting perspective regarding Geocentrism vs Heliocentrism as more of a perspective issue and example of battles between philosophy and 'science.' I think these battles continue to this day, people believe they are simply on opposite sides of the same spectrum, but often they're not even necessarily on the same page at all. I think your channel will blow up again soon, keep it up!

[@thomasc9036]

The battle between philosophy and science? Did you the battle between religion and science that began in the 19th century through lies by John Draper and Andrew White (both were liberal protestants, btw)?

[@eschaton8758]

the video said science and belief/faith was not separated then, because science is a method and process. a process wchich factors in your paradigm/worldview

[@Michael_Walsh]

I've hoped to see this return for 5 years. Thanks for the interesting video!

[@monochromeboy]

I just came back for my annual relisten!AND YOU ARE HERE!!! Never thought this day would come 😊

[@SidheKnight]

Glad to have you back! And with such a great video.

[@TheeChiv]

You timed this perfectly for my drive to work, amazing, very much appreciated 👍

[@Chud_Bud_Supreme]

I found your channel back in 2020 and loved listening to your series on church history. Thank you

[@frauleinhohenzollern]

Look who it is

[@justinmayfield6579]

Nice! Thanks for the deep-dive of this topic AND for bringing back the ending song! That and the old opening song bring me comfort lol.

[@tigerboy1966]

Good to see you back Ryan!

[@christianmancino1672]

I started listening to your videos back in 2019 and basically finished your entire catalogue in a few months. It’s awesome to have you back.

[@nolanroesler4126]

Glad to see you back.

[@RotneybotOfficial]

Ryan is back! Hallelujah! Quality content as always. Happy to see you back at it.

[@InterlinkedHope]

Love your content, and I hope you keep it coming. Thank you!

[@jordanevans6217]

I’m glad you kept the same outro music. A solid jam. I was worried you would try to update.

[@duyo96]

Really glad to see you again, Ryan.

[@billwiisanen6302]

Good video Dr Reeves, glad to have you back making videos.

[@malcolmjenkins571]

It’s good to have you back Dr

[@corvus1238]

Brilliant! Straight forward, informative, well explained and no awful, distracting background 'music'. Thank you.

[@dndhistoryhub4760]

Loved this Ryan. Great explanation delivered with empathy for all the historical figures.

[@boatcaptain6288]

Thank you for your hard work in making these videos, sir. I am new to your channel and am learning a lot.

[@manuelalejandro2817]

😊xxpcox

[@letsgetrich7724]

I say this with love as I want you to know the truth. Watch flat earth Dave. You will not believe in the heliocentric model. I BEiLeVe THe HeLiOCenTriC MoDel AnD HaVe nO IdEa WhAT iT iS!🤡🤡🤡 NASA means “deceive” in Hebrew! God>NASA ✝️>✡️👹

[@peterloohunt]

A very fair and balanced description of what happened. I would have emphasised even more how warm many factions of the church were to Galileo. Urban was a welcoming friend and advocate, until Galileo seemed to openly mock him by ascribing Urban's words / arguments to the fool in the dialogues! Having said all that, the Church was an utterly brutal theocratic tyranny, and the THREAT of torture was always there... as was the reality of what they would have done to him had he NOT recanted.

[@scrappybobbarker5224]

Congratulations on 200,000 subscribers! Many happy returns!

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Glad you're back,Dr. Reeves.🌹⭐🌹

[@brycedunn293]

Welcome Back Dr. Reeves!!!!!! You lectures are a gift to the internet.

[@osmiumsoul9535]

I'm so glad you're back! I've seen all your videos probably thrice over, great to see you making videos again.

[@Cup0Coffee]

This is excellent! I never really took the time to learn much about him until now. I can't wait for more! God bless you!

[@carlinberg]

Love that you still have the ending song. And very interesting video!

[@mrjoe5292]

Great video. Always bugs me when people have a simplistic or self-serving view of the church and its attitudes in history. I have my own feelings about the modern church(es) but pretending they've always been some sort of anti-science/progress monolith isn't helpful. I actually burst out laughing when I saw "Simplicio" on screen. Galileo was that kind of person, huh?

[@robertmurphree7210]

Read “Unbelievable” by Michael Keas

[@robertmurphree7210]

Read “unbelievable”

[@VTPSTTU]

Thank you for coming back and giving us these lectures.

[@loxjet1]

I'm so glad you're back, Dr. Reeves!

[@tarah3227]

Thank you so much for posting again you were missed ❤

[@jmstater]

Great video. Galileo's trial and the religious conflicts that informed it are strangely reminiscent of current day intellectual struggles.

[@delbert372]

Like what specifically?

[@jmstater]

​@@delbert372 In terms of the way philosophical disagreements are bleeding into politics and other arenas of life.

[@TheGerkuman]

It's amazing to think that if Gallileo had written his socratic dialogue a bit more obvious (or run it by the pope beforehand to make it clear it wasn't a dig on him) then Gallileo may have gotten away with it.

[@robertmurphree7210]

Galileo’s two world system’s was reviewed by the catholic censor before printing. Galileo promised he would not preach Copernicus, ridicule the pope, essentially lying his posterior off to get publication.

[@theanarchangel9163]

Good to see you back!

[@johngandee3695]

So happy Reeves lectures are back!

[@romantolstykh7488]

Found this channel recently and gotta say, sir you are simply great

[@josephaggs7791]

Welcome back sir, you gave us plenty of time to binge everything else , now im caught up , lets go!

[@lorihoard2265]

I’m so excited to see new content from Dr. Reeves!!

[@bkrxiii]

I’m so happy to see you’ve returned to KZbin.

[@stephaniemc7080]

Just a note to Thank You for coming back to YT.

[@jonwilliams23]

Excellent work on Galileo/Heliocentric observations and the trial! Thank you!

[@edwardlocke874]

Great to gave you back!! Thank you Reeves 🎉

[@friedricengravy6646]

Thank u! Knowledge for the sake of knowledge improves our quality of life even when faced with illness &/or other physical challenges. Access to free information can b empowering when those who can, offer legitimate factual content. Much respect.

[@ladiesman4565]

So glad you’re posting again

[@marwar819]

Interesting. You did a good job with that. Usually for me, listening to a tape like that would have put me to sleep. You've got a good voice for it and teaching students.

[@RyanReevesM]

I’m sure I can put you to sleep. Give me more chances.

[@jaggedstarrPI]

The G-man also argued that the tides were the best evidence for the heliocentric view, when of course they are not connected. I love it when the right conclusion is arrived at via an incorrect argument! Thanks for the good stuff. I recommend, "Galileo's Daughter" as a good read on this period.

[@Alex-ni5bk]

Great video glad you are back. I love all your videos!

[@den8863]

I thought, from what was known at the time, Galileo insisted that his findings weee proven when they were not. He was told to recant that from the regulatory body ( the Catholic Church) he refused and said some not related derogatory or heretical things and was punished with a house arrest. His findings would eventually be proven with better telescopes finding the parallax effect. Although, the punishment was severe and some of the bishops were quite unfair to Galileo but others were more fair.

[@ascaniosobrero]

I don't know who's "popular idea" of Galileo's trial included imprisoning, torture and so on. It is well known how it went. It is also history that Galileo actually never really dropped objects from the tower in Pisa: he just described it this way, but was a thought experiment. Actually, the trial against Galileo was not for his heliocentric support (and he never said "eppur si muove"), which was quite clear to the Church at that point, but for his support to atomism. That was the real threat to Church, as it was disproving the very base of the Catholicism: transubstantiation. It was clearly not a matter to discuss in a trial, but Galileo had to be disproved and exiled. Besides, he went to Arcetri, in Florence, where I would be more than happy to stay.

[@Terry-Oppong-RN]

Oh My God, you are back. I messaged you some years ago in instagram begging you to come back, I am soo happy Prof Reeves

[@LameytheClown]

Oddly enough, I did actually learn the story more or less accurately in school. I think I just had a teacher that was particularly interested in the subject. I definitely heard the simplified popular version a few times though in other classes.

[@dominiqueubersfeld2282]

Most people misunderstand the reason why Galileo was put on trial. The question about heliocentrism vs. geocentrism actually was anecdotal. The real reason was much deeper. It was the relation between dogma and experiment. Before Galileo, experiment was relevant only if it validated dogma. After Galileo experiment should prevail against dogma and dogma had to be changed if it was invalidated by experiment. This really is what the Roman Catholic Church represented by Cardinal Bellarmino could not accept.

[@Enochian_yeshuaite]

I started listening to Mr. reeves a year after he stopped making videos... I'm pleasantly surprised to see he's back. Return of the academic indeed.

[@Toetalwar]

I'm pleased you returned sir

[@julesjgreig]

Excellent and thorough job, thank you

[@Libbyyyyyyyyyy]

Hey Mr. Reeves. How about a new acoustic guitar jingle for the intro for the new era of videos? I have always enjoyed your videos. Thank you.

[@JukeBoxDestroyer]

thanks for finally posting new videos

[@joppa2011]

Great to have you back!

[@unhpsychology3909]

You’ve got a fantastic radio voice, my dude.

[@razvedkaCA]

An extremely well given lecture on this subject, informative, humorous and well researched data. I enjoyed this lecture very much

[@tristanpersaud6735]

That Socrates hemlock meme is hilarious 🤣

[@alexniklaus6216]

In important thing to understand is that people in this era had a concept of having to defend themselves in the psychological and spiritual realm as well as the physical. When we look back at what we see as ignorant and oppressive practices, often times the people at the time viewed them as tools to preserve the collective mental health of the whole population against mass mental illness. By keeping people in line with social customs like that, it that facilitated group cohesion. creating groups like families, community’s, and religious groups, for people to derive a sense of purpose and fulfillment from.

[@michelmontreuil9839]

It's good to have you back

[@JohnnyPolidano]

Thank you Dr. Reeves!

[@michaeldougherty6827]

Excellent content and narration!

[@MediocreApologist]

Great content as always , Ryan 👍🏽

[@gheiberg59]

Thank you so much for this… It is such a refreshing contra-narrative to the common ‘historical’ account of “Galileo-vs-the-Church” that is so often parroted.