Who started Flat Earth conspiracy theories?

This video discusses the history of Flat Earth conspiracy theories in the 1800s in England. The video focuses on the context of anti-science conspiracies and the teachings of Samuel Birley Rowbotham.
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Another great video to watch on this history is by The Present Past: • The Biggest Hoax in Hi...
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#flatearth #SamuelRowbotham

[@wretch1]

It's nice to have something in common with the earth. I'm old and round also. I used to be young and flat though.

[@stevenfrasier5718]

😆

[@Yesica1993]

You win the internets today!

[@stevenfrasier5718]

😁@@Yesica1993

[@johnhoward1181]

Me too! 😆

[@micahwatz1148]

Old and Round 🤣

[@ZenzoNkosi]

He's back! we've missed you brother!

[@johnhoward1181]

I agree. 🙂

[@erinl1265]

I discovered your videos in 2020 during covid and I have listened to them probably 100 times. I love your voice and content. Because of you I have gone back to school and finished my degree in theology and I am obsessed with church history and theology now. I am so glad you are back making new content!.

[@DSTH323]

His voice has changed, hasn't it?

[@td4426]

So when did the Jesuits take control of the church? And what did they promote?

[@saltysergeant4284]

You did all that because some guy makes videos?? Jeez, that's pathetic. Do it for yourself.

[@TheNightShunter]

You should listen to someone else. This guy is asleep.

[@breeinatree4811]

Ancient Greeks not only knew that the Earth was round, but they figured out how big it is. They were only 2° off.

[@JefiKnight]

At most, they calculated the circumference in the event the sun is so very very far away that all sun rays are essentially parallel. If the sun is not that far away, they did not calculate the circumference. The Greeks were smart. They would have known that.

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

@@JefiKnight the greeks were smart. if the earth were flat, they could calculate the height of the flattardia sun, but that calculation would be different for every distance to the subsolar point, proving that the earth isn't flat.

[@SkullpunkArt]

@@JefiKnightthey already knew the earth was round.

[@doug1863]

Wonderful to see another video Dr Reeves. Always looking forward to anything you post. And BTW. Thanks for keeping the closing music

[@RyanReevesM]

Had to change the opening. Love the song but couldn’t keep requesting to use it. I miss the guitar though.

[@doug1863]

@@RyanReevesM I was thinking about the guitar music too but for some reason didn’t mention it. Oh well , I will miss it. Thank you for all of your hard work

[@aamontalto]

Thank you for enlightening me on a subject I would never have bothered to look into otherwise. I have great respect for your “video essays” and always look forward to your latest upload (so glad you’re back!).

[@aWomanFreed]

How do u know this KZbinr is accurate

[@aamontalto]

@@aWomanFreed I cannot say that Dr Reeves is always 100% accurate! But I can conclude that his content is 100% well researched. There seem to be enough learned viewers who are in a position to criticize content that may be questionable in its conclusion / accuracy (see the video about Galileo) but in general I have come to conclude that Dr Reeves’ videos are trustworthy. And that’s why I’m a subscriber!

[@PhilosoFeed]

Glad you're back! I've enjoyed many of your videos over the years, and this was another fascinating one.

[@terryz935]

Coincidently here in the States, in 1828, the idea of a flat earth appeared in Washington Irving’s biography of Columbus, "A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus (1828)" wherein Irving posits that Columbus' contemporaries all believed in a flat earth while Columbus thought the world was a sphere.

[@catfinity8799]

Aha! So that's where that notion came from.

[@humanbean3]

ohhh so that's why we were taught in school that columbus discovered the earth was round or something

[@terryz935]

@@humanbean3 Everyone knew that the Earth was a sphere. The difference was in the size of that sphere. Columbus thought the Earth was smaller and so he could reach The Indies before running out of supplies.

[@huskythegamerdog3171]

Flat earth didn't start In the 1800s. It goes back to ancient Hebrew cosmology. They believed the earth was 3 tier and enclosed by the firmament. The firmament had waters above, which broke open during the great flood. The hebrews were not alone.. All ancient near east civilizations had a similar view. Both Martin luther and John Calvin took a geocentric view. Based off old testament scriptures in job and Joshua.

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

Ancient Hebrew cosmology does not describe a sunset as a function of perspective. Nice try though.

[@Mark-Stone]

That’s nice. Earth is still a rotating sphere orbiting a star.

[@johnqpublic7608]

iron age hebrews were ignorant of cosmology. who would have guessed. the were an animal sacrifice cult.

[@RichardCadby]

Great comment. Christians need to know the pagan origins of the globular Earth system. Satan has got countless mileage out of this lie. The ancient Israelites knew the layered cosmology of the world (Genesis is very plain regarding the firmament - waters above and below - how can this be misinterpreted, especially when we know that science has been manipulated by Rosicrucians and Freemasons probably since its inception?). Are we to believe that Jesus Himself really accepted a spinning globular Earth, in opposition to His schooling in Hebrew cosmology that teaches the exact opposite? I highly doubt it.

[@Okijuben]

Great video. There is definitely an "anti-social/anti-scientific establishment" component to this, fueled by the proliferation of social media.

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

being "skeptical" of "authority" is the new fad.

[@timothyclark5786]

@@RidgewayMountainhauser It is exactly this. I have a friend, who is a Christian, that has no problem with the sun being a sphere but he questions the earth being one. My thoughts were that he mistrusts authority and can't be told that the earth is in fact a sphere. Questioning this give those who mistrust authority an element of control in their lives.

[@Okijuben]

@@RidgewayMountainhauser Agreed. Sadly, when the skepticism only goes one way, it's not really skepticism. There's something almost pornographic about the "truther" methodology in that the more salacious the claim, the more traction it has.

[@floptaxie68]

@@timothyclark5786 if he just applied that skepticism to his own Christianity…

[@Okijuben]

@@timothyclark5786 It's also an especially convenient concept if one is a religious person who wants to believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old. If millions of scientists/engineers are lying about the shape of the Earth, they can also be lying about fossils/DNA/geology, etc. It allows one to throw out every piece of information they don't like. My favorite are the Elon Musk fans who are also Flat Earth. The cognitive dissonance is sometimes astonishing.

[@chriscasperson5927]

Think of all the life-improving inventions that Flat Earthers have given us, like:

[@HugoFilho.]

Hahahahaha. Those few crickets contributed more to humanity than all flattards combined.

[@Dr.GermScary]

your moronic comment has built in assumptions, namely: 1. People who believe the “globe” are responsible for all scientific discovery and 2. Those who know the globe is a gigantic lie are unscientific. This is merely proof of how little you know about anything and NOT the other way around.

[@Dr.GermScary]

Your comment has built in assumptions that are 100% baseless. Namely, 1. Flat earthers don’t believe in science and are unscientific. 2. Those who are fooled by globe nonsense are responsible for all scientific discoveries 😂😂😂

[@danastaph7708]

As an old man, I call BS on Rowbotham being anti Newton at age 7. My father had a PhD in Mechanical Engineering, and my mother had a Masters in Education. At 7 years of age, the only Newton I was aware of was “ Fig “, and mom didn’t buy them often enough.

[@williampaap2098]

I too am an old man. And, like you, my father was an electrical engineer and mom was the homemaker. There was never enough fig newtons!

[@LTPottenger]

No one in the 20th century was avidly talking about Newton, which was the case back then.

[@GoSlash27]

Neither of my parents were college graduates, and at age 7 I was staunchly pro- Newton to a fault. I rejected special and general relativity on the grounds that it was counterintuitive. And yes, I was using that word at 7. Children that are bizarrely precocious do exist, so I can't reject his claim out of hand. I do, however, have to take his claim with a large grain of salt (as I would expect anyone to take mine) because it's uncorroborated.

[@jayizzett]

Prove newton was even real

[@Prometheus7272]

@@GoSlash27Do you still believe that

[@biffkline8771]

The Reeves/ Pageau crossover I've been waiting for!

[@AONM52]

The only thing flat-earthers fear is sphere itself

[@Studentdiscipleofjesus]

They fear reality.

[@jdee3421]

Are you quoting Flatearth Delano Roosevelt?

[@calebdesjardins616]

So happy you’re back! Your videos have helped me with the trinity and church history so much!

[@HenryDurth]

What does the bible say the shape of earth is

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@HenryDurth It certainly doesn't say it's flat. The entire thing is an invention of man either way and open to personal interpretation, and certainly not factual in any way.

[@HenryDurth]

@@leftpastsaturn67 not factual? Has the tower of babel been proven or city of babylon?

[@KnightFel]

@@HenryDurthif the earth was flat, the edge would be the greatest tourist attraction on the planet.

[@HenryDurth]

@@KnightFel sure except for the fact you can't go to the edge because it is past antartica

[@jeffreywj7773]

Excellent video, thank you. An interesting thought popped into my head as you were introducing the anonymously published "Anti-Newtonian" pamphlet. What if the person publishing this was doing it as a joke? Don't we occasionally see a video on KZbin that at first glance looks to be serious, only later to realize it's a prank? Anyway, thanks again for an very interesting history on the flat earth theory and the historical context out of which it was generated.

[@thefirm4606]

The Onion 19th century style 😂😂

[@ameribeaner]

I'm going to be honest, I wasn't expecting to see a video on this subject from Dr. Reeves either. Good video

[@DarkGrackle]

Oh, this is going to be good. Who would have expected seeing this topic here of all places, but I'm down for it!

[@therealzilch]

Very nicely done, subscribed. I knew a bit about Rowbotham, and I've leafed through _Zetetic Astronomy,_ but this added a great deal of fascinating background. I would agree that there are lots of modern flat Earthers who are not religious, but after years of chatting with thousands of them online, I get the feeling that most are inspired by what they think the Bible says about the shape of the Earth. What the authors of the Bible meant is of course a topic unto itself, one that I suspect has no good answer, because they obviously didn't draw a hard line between literal and figurative language. Thanks, looking forward to more videos. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott

[@blackflagsnroses6013]

I would point out that the *Utopian Socialists* were not anti-industrial, on the contrary Simonianism, Owenism, Fourierism etc… were all predicated on addressing the failures of capitalist industrial society to achieve a material liberation of society. In other words they sought to use the nascent social science (today sociology) to reform social structures themselves towards more equitable ends, and being to fruition the promises of liberalism through the reorganization of industrial society. They figured society can be made better and society is as any other natural phenomena subject to scientific inquiry and experimentation. That a scientific society and be found and industrialism was an important factor in the advancement of society. But industrialism under capitalism was considered an abysmal failure in distributing the goods and wealth produced by society.

[@RyanReevesM]

That's a fair point about those movements properly. I try in passing to point out that Rowbotham's short stint in this community was 1) a fringe group not embraced by Owenites themselves and 2) his focus was more reactionary. The bit about eating, drinking, and arguing kinda points to that, but could have been clearer.

[@Mujangga]

"Owenism"...? Doesn't that mean to play with yourself?

[@LetMyPeopleKnowMinistry]

@@MujanggaYou're thinking of Onan, not Owen.

[@Mujangga]

🤔@@LetMyPeopleKnowMinistry

[@charlesharlan5951]

I have learned so much from your videos over the last few years. Thank you for your studies and work.

[@ramiusstorm5664]

Dude the antithesis of science is conscience, let that sink in while you investigate the intended purpose of the modern school system.

[@charlesharlan5951]

@@ramiusstorm5664 I would challenge you to a battle of wits but I can see That you are unarmed

[@ramiusstorm5664]

@@charlesharlan5951read the Wikipedia fact check on the video, Wikipedia admits geocentrism is ancient, this guy isn't even credible among the opponents of a level playing field.

[@charlesharlan5951]

@@ramiusstorm5664 Please go away with your Wikipedia facts.

[@charlesharlan5951]

Let that sink in and simmer to the depths of your mind where knowledge has escaped you. You have shown us that you can not be a free thinker or free thinking when you derive your information and or knowledge from Wikipedia. Please go back to the creek and streams you are familiar with. Don’t try and navigate the waters you think you are treading. Good day to you sir.

[@kenny187ful]

Oh boy, this is gonna be a good one

[@Yesica1993]

The loonies have already started. There's no way to even have watched the video yet. Insufferable!

[@MiikWatson66]

If they actually watched this ,they would have to question belief in a flat earth. Mike Winger did a fantastic bible study(no science) proving that the bible does not teach a flat earth, tried to have my friend watch and absolutely would not!

[@jesse7631]

People who say the Bible teaches that the Earth's age is ~6,000 years aren't really students of the Bible. First, they presume to conclude that the creative 'days' mentioned in Genesis are actual 24-hour days. However, the Bible does not teach that. Additionally, Genesis 1:1, when speaking about the beginning of the universe, "the heavens and the earth", this verse is not included in the part of the creative days described afterward. There is plenty of proof that the Earth is literally billions of years old, and the Bible does not contradict that. It is also estimated that the creative days, rather than being literal 24-hour days, are likely thousands and thousands of years. At the end of the creation account in Genesis, it combines all the creative days and calls them a single day. It's not talking about specific time-spans, but rather the order that things occurred in during the preparing of the Earth for life. The Bible is NOT a scientific textbook, but when studied correctly, one can see that what is in the Bible does not contradict current scientific discoveries and facts.

[@Factchekka]

Wrong! The Bible totally contradicts current scientific discoveries and facts!

[@macroman91]

I remember flat earther flyers being circulated in the early 2000's as a joke.

[@HenryDurth]

What does the bible say the shape of earth is?

[@macroman91]

@@HenryDurth It doesn't. And until this video, I had always believed FES to be a long running practical joke.

[@HenryDurth]

@@macroman91 psalms 19:1 It talks about the firmament. This is pretty obvious but there is something high in the sky blocking us from leaving earth . Enough said about this one . Isiah 40:22 In flat earth the earth would be a circle like a frisbee surrounded by a ice wall. So isiah 40:22 says the earth is round so this goes with flat earth.

[@moggpiano8043]

​@@HenryDurthIt also talks of talking donkeys and a guy strolling about bringing random dead individual back to life and walking on water. Launch that story today and everyone calls "bullshit". (Don't forget all the sunrises and sunsets and the four corners ers.)

[@macroman91]

@@HenryDurth Neither of those verses proclaims the earth to be flat.

[@willmosse3684]

Very interesting. A look at the recent rise of the theory could be an interesting follow up. In the last 15 years it seems to have grown hugely in popularity.

[@moogle_k]

It is interesting to see this topic grow and play out. It's a topic that was NEVER on my radar. The First time I was exposed to the idea was in grade school with my teachers making the point how naive our ancestors were, and how they feared they might fall off the edge of the flat earth. Ships that Circumnavigated the world put those fears to rest and proved the globe. It made perfectly good sense to me and I never thought about the topic again for over 20 years. For over 20 freaking years the topic never entered my consciousness or came up in ANY discussions. The next time I heard about it was when Kyrie Irving brought it up about 5 years ago or so. Round ball in round hoop on flat court = flat earth. He was a joke to me, and the topic in itself was a joke. Fast forward to now, Kyrie is still getting attention for his statements so not much has changed there, but what has changed is how EVERY video or image of the earth and space has comments from people either making fun of flat earth or people claiming we live on a flat earth. The comment sections ALWAYS blow up. Now people that never used to make videos about the topic, make videos about it and watch as the activity on their channel sky rockets. There's a guy that used to just do videos on photography and cameras for example. He would get a modest yet respectable amount of views and a few comments. Then he made a single video debunking flat earth and it FAR surpassed any of his previous content that he had made. Now he releases regular debunking videos and his channel, viewers, and sponsorship has increased at a rate of growth that the data chart tracking the statistics of his channel would be relatable in visualization to that of one tracking the advancements in technology to the point of singularity. There is no doubt that with this topic comes MUCH attention. It's not just fading away like the typical dumb joke topic does. It's getting louder and bigger to the point no video about this world in which we live will be absent of comments either for or against it and those that ridicule or demean those that break away from a globe earth.

[@willmosse3684]

@@moogle_k It’s part of a trend of conspiracy thinking and reflexively going against anything “the experts” say more generally. There used to be accepted truths, and things we could debate within that. Now, nothing is accepted, and everything is about personal opinion. Seems like the internet caused it.

[@qkqk6954]

@@moogle_k yep that's youtube's algorithm pushing the narrative. KZbin is incentivizing people to make flat earth debunk videos. They admitted that they censor flat earth. The youtube representative, when asked what is youtube doing about "conspiracy theories" on its platform, said they're demoting low quality content and promoting authoritative content. Basically censorship.

[@Heracles_FE]

@moogle_k The Earth is flat and stationary. Every single civilization up to modern Western civilization knew that . This video was a joke and seriously underplayed the resistance to heliocentrism. This supposed historian never mentioned the reformation, which grew primarily on cosmology . He is a joke .

[@candacen7779]

@@Heracles_FE k

[@TentoesMe]

He he... NASA faked the whole space program to convince us the earth is round so that we would accept that Australia is a real place😜

[@justinmayfield6579]

The thing I find most fascinating about the Flat Earth movement is its distrust of the dominant view of how we know things (epistemology). I mean, one of the leading proponents set a record by building a home-made rocket and launching himself in it almost 2,000 feet in the air just so he could observe the curve of the earth, himself. (In 2020, he tried launching himself to 5,000 feet and died.) On the other hand, the modern scientific enterprise depends on not just trusting the word of other people (other scientists, etc.), but on the idea that we can even trust the sense data our minds are receiving, in spite of shaky philosophical reasoning (if one takes the skeptical approach to epistemology which undergirds modern theories). In some ways, the flat-earthers are the ultimate skeptics. It's a weird world we inhabit.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

Mad Mike was in no way one of the flat earth's 'leading proponents'. He admitted that he couldn't have launched his rocket without sponsorship, and the only people dumb enough to do that were flat earthers, he just played along so he could achieve his ambition.

[@boatcaptain6288]

And yet their understanding of science is the most elementary there is. Sometimes not even elementary, they're just completely ignorant. But they still profess to know science better

[@tjjones621]

ultimate gullible is more like it. may mad mike rest in pieces... at least he proved gravity.

[@justinmayfield6579]

@@boatcaptain6288 I agree quite a bit, but I still find it interesting that mainstream scientists would have a hard time answering these philosophical questions, though.

[@flookd5516]

@@justinmayfield6579We rely on instruments for measurements and reproducible data rather than opinion.

[@charleswheeler3689]

There is also a sort of resentful anti-elitist dislike of expertise, and a distrust of any form of established knowledge.

[@DarkrarLetsPlay]

Lactantius did believe in a flat earth.

[@scapescale]

Loving the new content. If I may request, please don't focus on the fringe theories of commentors. I used to live and breathe your historical theology presentations and would love to see more!

[@bigboibenny1609]

You should do videos on the history of young earth creationism!

[@LetMyPeopleKnowMinistry]

That would simply be a study of the history of the Bible. The belief in millions of years was concocted starting only a few centuries ago by amateur "scientists" who purposely were trying to disprove the Bible. Then Darwinism came around afterwards, which requires millions of years to "work", giving the concept of an old Earth a leg to stand on. Unfortunately for them, real empirical science can disprove both Darwinism and millions of years. If you'd like to know more about proving Young Earth Creationism, my channel has multiple playlists showing all the science.

[@Cinnamonbuns13]

Young Earth is more of a pressupositional argument and not a rejection of Newtonian Science altogether.

[@ThatGuy-ky2yf]

​@@Cinnamonbuns13 I'd imagine there's a lot of arguments around carbon dating and similar measures.

[@Cinnamonbuns13]

@@ThatGuy-ky2yf There are, but the argumentation is against the pressupositions associated with carbon dating, I.E. the assumption that rates of decay are uniform or constant. The YE creationists are rejecting the assumptions of secular driven science, but using science to do so.

[@LetMyPeopleKnowMinistry]

Radiometric dating methods are very unreliable because of the many false assumptions built in. I have a full playlist of videos proving this.

[@patrickharner]

Ryan, love your channel. Thank you for all your efforts. Christine Garwood does some great work in her book, Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea. Also, it is worthwhile reading Rowbotham's Zetetic Astronomy- I know you mention it, but he actually makes some pretty compelling arguments. Fascinating read. Lastly, have you read Herbert Dingle's Science at the Crossroads? May also be a worthwhile read. Oh, and one more thing, the late Michael Heiser, while explaining the doctrine of accommodation, does explain that ancient Hebrews had a flat-earth, enclosed, stationary earth cosmology. Again, thanks for all your great content!

[@RyanReevesM]

Always like book suggestions. No one doubts the Hebrews had that cosmology. All ancient cultures did in that area of the world. The debate is was it required to be seen as scientifically literal. It could true and non-literal. It's a long conversation and debate, of course. I don't expect people who think it should be scientifically literal to change their mind because I made a short video.

[@patrickharner]

@@RyanReevesM blown away you responded to my comment. I'm a little "starstruck," ha! If you do pick up the Garwood book, I would love to get your thoughts on it (future video?). Keep up the good work!

[@areyoutheregoditsmedave]

“why” is definitely the most interesting aspect of the flat earth phenomenon.

[@crystalgiddens7276]

Not if you consider the number of pure lies perpetrated in the name of "science," the moon hoax and climate change being among them. We've been lied to so much, I find questioning everything to be rational. I happen to believe the flat earth nonsense is promoted to discredit anyone who questions the farcical claims made in the name of science. Calling anyone who questions "the science" a "flat earther," is now the go to ad hominem. Science is a most useful tool but too many accept as fact anything proclaimed in the name of it!

[@theConquerersMama]

Isn't it? I used to get into discussions with FE people in order to test my patience and Cognitive Disonnance limits. I confess my tolerance to entertain the idea for long was low. Especially, when I would ask about why. Or ideas like Flatland or computer simulation rather than biblical cosmology being the reason - only to be met with zero interest in talking about those possibilities or outright aggression. Why, indeed.

[@crabb9966]

​​@@theConquerersMama let us discuss it. Things which disprove your model: no visible horizontal curvature, sun significantly bigger at higher altitude despite no magnification due to to air density. The world record photograph for distance show very much of the mountains, hence any visible curvature has been disproved as your account for refraction is meaningless in this circumstance. The earth's horizon appears eye level at high altitude. The stars are ostenisbly not planets if you zoom in on them. Now I have disproved your model quite easily

[@humanbean3]

@@crabb9966 2 out of the 3 things you said aren't even true. you can watch amateur rocket launches if u dont trust space x/nasa/jaxa/china/korea/russian space agencies. u can see curvature. also watching the sun set, then using a drone to go up high and see the sun again before it goes back down behind the water shows curvature. curvature isn't only side to side. you can see curvature front to back. fly in a crop dust plane, you can see the earth coming towards you over the curve. the sun stays the same size. look at the sun throughout the day with welders glasses. or you can buy some eclipse glasses for a few dollars. the sun never changes size. the picture part i find interesting. i've looked a little into it and the only pictures i can find are taken from a mountain top, and looking at other mountain tops. i cannot find any pictures looking down on a city street or looking down on anything. it's always seeing the top of tall things and taken from on top of a tall thing

[@colonelweird]

Fascinating story, but I'm puzzled by one claim. At the beginning you say there was an important connection between Owenite socialism and flat earthers, but the only connection I see is Rowbotham's brief involvement. Was there more to it than that? Did Owen, or his followers, teach some form of flat-earthism?

[@RyanReevesM]

Other way round. I am saying essentially two things: 1) it was a time of change and new ideas. And this double pull to change and go back to the old days created a lot of quirky ideas. 2) Rowbotham is jumping around to all these ideas and he is a bit of a maverick. The group he was with was not fully Owenite (or embraced by other groups) and they kick him out for trying to force his views on them.

[@colonelweird]

@@RyanReevesM Thank you. Sounds like you're saying the Owenites and flat-earthers were just particularly quirky examples of that cultural moment that also (if my memory of college Wesrern Civ is accurate) gave us Romanticism.

[@RyanReevesM]

@@colonelweird // I think that's the right way to see it. Rapid change brings nostalgia. And nostalgia can sometimes remember the past differently than it may have actually been.

[@Ken-fh4jc]

Thanks for the video! So glad you are back man.

[@Famedawg]

12:14 So are you saying that most modern science doesn’t actively attempt to oppose a biblical world view???😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@thomasw.eggers4303]

I think modern science sinply ignores the absurdity.

[@Famedawg]

@@thomasw.eggers4303 At this point I’m skeptical of both. Most biblical world views and “modern science” are used for mass manipulation. If you need an example look multi gender stuff and the world wide shutdowns for “safety” recently. Meanwhile the largest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen takes place simultaneously…🤔. Some of the people who wear long black cloaks and white cloaks or coats are up to something… Basically it always come down to…”Never trust a man wearing a suit”, type thing.

[@Famedawg]

@@thomasw.eggers4303 😊 Don’t be shy.

[@thomasw.eggers4303]

@@Famedawg OK, I won't be shy. I don't know anything about where the flat earth conspiracy theory started from. I followed the "technical debate" for about 6 months, trying to understand where the FErs were coming from, but I never did understand it, and the repeated claims of fraud and fake photos and whatever finally just became repetitious and uninteresting. So I quit. This topic, how did the conspiracy get started, was interesting, but only once.

[@inferno0020]

So Rowbotham was just Alex Jones of the 1800s.

[@AB-12345]

Not really. Alex Jones is a CIA agent who is set on this position in order to control opposition

[@dallitt]

I first encountered flat earth theory in the 90s on online bulletin boards, and the way it was presented was very tongue-in-cheek, with people who had good scientific knowledge and credentials sharing intentional sleight of hand reasoning to construct fun, superficially persuasive arguments for flat earth. the in group was in on the joke, and would refuse to break character to outsiders, and use clever and twisted logic to rebut arguments against flat earth.

[@magnetmountain33]

Yeah, you’re missing a massive part of this they called them heavenly spheres and they were using a geocentric system😂 My God, they found another person to lie about history and exaggerate the mainstream’s narrative, already heavily questioned!

[@johnqpublic7608]

wrong and stupid.

[@Davidbirdman101]

Here's what I think about it, if people want to believe that the earth is flat, I don't care. As long as they are not programming gps or something sensitive like airplane traffic, I don't care what people think. What bugs me is the people who feel like they have to run around like a nanny and correct everyone's thinking. Debunking myths and legends and things. It's like some kind of obsession with these people. Let people think what they want to. Live and let live.

[@moggpiano8043]

People believing myths and legends gave us religion. The bane of mankind. Imagine the Middle East right now if Christianity, Islam and Judaism had never existed. Unfortunately, the bizarre beliefs that humans subscribe to shape their actions and have resulted in unspeakable barbarism and bloodshed for thousands of years. Flat Earthism might *seem* harmless but it's the tip of an iceberg for conspiracy theorists that are consumed with shed loads of dangerous obsessions.

[@prajnadeva]

But if nobody check them, later on they will program the GPS and then try to mess with it "because the earth is flat", and accident will happen

[@theConquerersMama]

​@@prajnadevaor get on school boards. We have at least one on ours. 😢

[@quantumeraser4833]

You treat objects like woman ? "if people want to believe that the earth is flat" - I don't believe the earth is flat, I KNOW IT with Absolute Certainty and can PROVE IT. Big Difference. Why don't I just let you (Unwittingly) do it 🤣... "As long as they are not programming gps..." -- GPS is based on a Cartesian Grid System (XYz), Ahhh That's a **'FLAT'** Grid !! Lols Lemme guess, because G is "Global" then the Earth's a Globe, right ? 🥴 "...or something sensitive like airplane traffic." -- Since the Earth is, as we’re TOLD, a Sphere 25,000 miles in circumference… radius 3959 miles, then Pilots traveling for 1 Hour @ a typical cruising speed of 500 mph - to simply MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, would constantly have to adjust their altitude downwards, (to Compensate for the Curvature) and descend on **AVERAGE 2,789 Feet EVERY MINUTE !!** (btw, it get's much worse as the distance increases) The nose of the plane would never get above horizontal save for takeoff !! Apparently, you need a Nanny. Thanks for your unsolicited trainwreck 👌

[@joerichardson4325]

​@@prajnadeva If anybody actually buys one of their "FPS" (Flat Positioning System) devices, everyone getting lost or travel time way out of whack, should just be the worst of it!

[@alainelowell1997]

Wow, I can see why you don't want to discuss science. Nice picture you chose. No flat earther believes a flat disc floating in space. The world is much more interesting when you decide to look at it with your own eyes and a critical mind and open mind. Good luck to you.

[@Mark-Stone]

It doesn’t matter what a flat earther does or doesn’t believe; it’s all scientifically illiterate drivel. All of it. Without exception. Earth is a sphere, we have known this with absolute certainty for many centuries. Having an open mind is great; ignoring objective facts in favour of conspiracies and hysteria is not.

[@tjjones621]

"No flat earther believes a flat disc floating in space. " So, you haven't met any flatearhters. Got it. Uh, all flerfs use the globe map to drive around and they think it's a secret. Now, THAT'S funny!

[@leftpastsaturn67]

You're the one who needs luck you inadequate coward.

[@td4426]

@@Mark-Stonethe only sphere is the dome, there actually are not any fact based evidence of the globe model, give it up, you and your brainwashed group all are in the religion of science

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@td4426 Says the inept coward who can't prove his own claims or explain why the flat earth circus don't agree on anything. Grow up.

[@magnetmountain33]

Would that be Sir Isaac Newton, who told the scientific establishment that it was impossible for the heliocentric universe to be floating around in a vacuum, and then turned to alchemy for the rest of his life, trying to uncover the secrets of the Emerald tablet of Hermes

[@TheHaughtyOsprey]

Nah, that was Fig Newton, his evil doppelganger who tried to destroy his reputation. I've had some rows with folks over where the vacuum starts and how it exists without a physical barrier.

[@smartbelievers]

Do modern flat-earth believers also deny the existence of rockets, orbiting satellites, and space stations?

[@lucasorourke8759]

Yes

[@thomasw.eggers4303]

There isn't a consistent flat-earth theory. Many do deny those and claim pictures, like "Earthrise", are total fakes or are photoshopped.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

I believe, as a flat earth believer, that rockets exist on earth, and if you watch them launch, they make a curve and come back down lol. They say it's the "curve of the earth". Satellites... not sure, maybe some on balloons, stationary. I think the ISS is faked.

[@tcizzi]

As they use GPS to get to their flat earth conventions.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@tcizzi I think a lot of GPS also uses ground based towers.

[@andweknow8287]

There were several popes way before that time that believed the flat earth.

[@rocketmanshawn]

Did Rowbotham have any exposure to the conflict thesis? (Draper and White)

[@RyanReevesM]

Great question. Short answer there is no evidence he is aware of it (or that conflict theorists are aware of his teachings, I don't think). He's more forerunner to it. Or a case in point of the mood shifting.

[@rocketmanshawn]

​@@RyanReevesMthanks

[@moogle_k]

You are in error in the video where you tried to make it sound like this topic is a relatively new idea, and are attempting to accredit the topic to Rowbotham, aka parallax as the point of orgin. You stated that the ancient Hebrews didn't believe in a flat earth. That is not true, unless you are more of a subject matter expert than Hebrew language experts themselves. The ancient Hebrews absolutely did believe in a flat, motionless, domed earth, with waters above separated by waters below. To suggest otherwise is false and shows a lack of investigation and understanding into the history of the overall topic. Hebrew scholar Michael Heiser who worked for Logos Bible software, gave quite a few presentations and lectures on this fact. He didn't believe in a flat domed earth himself and would be the first to let you know that you're an idiot if you agreed with the biblical view point of cosmology, but he taught it as it was written from the early Hebrew perspective. His views were that God was using flawed men that could only write down Gods word through their incorrect understanding and viewpoint of His creation. The truthful account of any subject is important and this video presenting itself as a history lesson on the overal topic is not accurate at all. This video would be more accurately described as just as an expose on Rowbotham.

[@dunoze]

You'll have fun here , it's crawling with trolls as the page is quite fresh . I was already subbed . interesting channel but he blew it on this . But it is fast heading to be his most commented on page . It's interesting how the trolls are actually helping spread the Biblical Cosmology by keeping page active so getting more viewers .

[@P.H.888]

A Cambridge historian? Not The world famous and renowned English one! 🚩 Ad hominem attack is not history more gaslighting 🚩 Like most topics today the narcissist theory is dominate The universities are a closed shop No critical thinking allowed Who is so controlling? Not The Uncreated Eternal Spirit ~ Almighty God No room to grow and learn in an environment of love and respect

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@P.H.888 If you were capable of critical thought, you wouldn't believe in either a flat earth or an invisible sky wizard. Silly prick.

[@briancarroll1917]

You’re the man Ryan. Love every video you’ve posted.

[@righteouslydefiant5362]

4 Chan really captured the minds of the world's dummies

[@carbine090909]

In the words of Jesus, 'is it easier to say get up and walk, or your sins are forgiven?'

[@toddr737]

Very informative and well presented. Thank you for sharing this.

[@flygirlfly]

Hallelujah! Dr. REEVES IS BACK!❤ Would you consider examining the role (or not) that religion played during the French Revolution?

[@RyanReevesM]

Yep that’s on the horizon

[@dunoze]

@@RyanReevesM The documentary " Helio-sorcery " by Earthen Vessels on KZbin covers the Copernican Revolution and the start of the modern helio-centric model . I think you will find their historical take very intriguing . It is well researched and referenced . Look's like this vid. is well on the way to being one of your most popular vids and certainly the most comments by a long shot . Every single FEer dismissed it at first .

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@dunoze "It is well researched and referenced" Comedy gold.

[@christophersnedeker]

Flat earthers when mom buys fig Newtons instead of fig Robothums 😡

[@cathyhale7172]

That was fascinating. Thank you!😊

[@SuperMoshady]

We observe, measure and navigate flat earth, there is no evidence of earth curve

[@Mark-Stone]

That’s an extremely silly claim.

[@SuperMoshady]

@@Mark-Stone Where do we see earth curve?

[@Mark-Stone]

@@SuperMoshady it’s called a horizon.

[@SuperMoshady]

@@Mark-Stone If the horizon is earth curve, why does it change location on a daily basis along with the weather? Is the earth expanding and contracting on a daily basis along with the horizon? 😆😆😆Furthermore, if the earth was a sphere with a radius of 3959 miles, then the distance to horizon can be no more than 1.22 miles x the sq rt of the observers height in feet, there are observations of the horizon being further away than the geometric limitations of the globe allow, proving the horizon is not earth curve 🤷

[@Mark-Stone]

@@SuperMoshady You copied and pasted that drivel to me previously Duncan, don’t you remember? Asking questions is to be applauded; not listening to answers is to be decried.

[@ThreeUsee1]

Hey have you been putting out stuff regularly?

[@ianlewis6258]

Didn't China still think the Earth was flat until the 16th or 17th century?

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Why are you starting out with a picture of a flat earth representation that isn't what flat earthers would show? Not looking good out of the gate.

[@amygodward4472]

I know right?! Way too oval-shaped. Flat earth needs to be rounder or it just wouldn't make sense.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@amygodward4472 Um, not quite. This seems to be a depiction of their universe with just a flattened earth, but this is not the flat earth model. That would be called a strawman. It begs the question, why do they need to strawman it, if it's really that ridiculous?

[@andrejayc3464]

​@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessrdo you have any pictures of the wall of ice that surrounds the edges of earth?

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@andrejayc3464 All I know is what we can know, and I have compiled it all and used my brain to come up with the conclusion I think is most likely. That's all. It's all probabilities.

[@boldcounsel9406]

*Perspective:* The FE perspective is not a new worldview. It was the dominant and only model until recently, when 'outer space" was introduced. Read *Genesis Chapter 1* where the Earth is created BEFORE the stars or where the firmament (glass dome containing all the stars) separated the waters above. "Outer space" is a new belief. Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Hebrews, Egyptian, etc.... Virtually all cultures held this model: That Earth is a realm, covered by a starry dome, and that the sun (Apollo) and moon (Artemis) travel in the sky, just above our heads.

[@johnqpublic7608]

wrong and stupid. humanity has known the earth is a sphere for more than two millennia. it's trivially easy to verify.

[@Mark-Stone]

That comment is meaningless religious hysteria.

[@boldcounsel9406]

Maybe your comment is meaningless and religious in nature... Additionally it's obviously the result of poor reading comprehension skills. Do you think me citing the Bible AND Apollo/Artemis was an attempt at proselytism? Or did you just see something about religion... Hiss at the screen... and mindlessly type? The later is probably closer to the truth, and is why I say you, regardless if you agree, are religious.

[@boldcounsel9406]

*My Purpose:* is to put things in perspective. Namely to show that the FE model isn't new, but is what virtually everyone believed for all of recorded history, until recent (me citing the beliefs of different religions that span millennia is an adequate way to do this). *More Perspective (1500s - Now):* What exactly do you think the "Scientific Revolution" was revolting against? In large part our _perspective_ of the heavens. It wasn't until the 19th century that most of the "experiments" were done for the new Heliocentric model... The 19th century is also when its proponents first came up with the word and started calling themselves "scientists." But again, the "heliocentric model" is the new belief system. We're taught it as children, and essentially taught to not question it. The model that is reviled (FE) is NOT new, but ancient as human history. It is accurate, and still used to day to navigate, predict eclipses, determine the (unchanged) courses of all stars, etc....

[@Mark-Stone]

@@boldcounsel9406 That comment is meaningless drivel. You’re not doing too well, are you.

[@genielove9067]

Strawman #1: Nobody thinks it’s a flat disk floating in space. We live on a flat stationary plane(t). We do not live on a sphere spinning 1000 mph while shooting 66,000 mph- that is absolutely ridiculous.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

Funny how nobody can prove that. Even funnier that you fell for that obvious hoax. Be less stupid and gullible.

[@johnqpublic7608]

once you say you're a flattard, does any of the rest of it really matter?

[@diannechathurangaatukorele4530]

Good lecture. But there is a point that struck my mind that if Cristopher Columbus and Ferdinand Magellan in the West and Lord Buddha in the East have discovered and proved that the Earth is sphere ( while the later was long time before and both of them are before Rowbottham lived) what prompt the Westerners to accept the Rowbottham theories of a flat Earth surpassing the others?

[@johnqpublic7608]

ignorance

[@betaorionis2164]

"Westerners" did not accept Rowbotham's theories. BTW, "Westerners" knew the Earth was spheric more than 2500 years ago, long before Columbus and Magellan.

[@EffequalsMA]

Intelligent and very insightful. I've noticed the premise you make myself but, hadn't put it together as well as you do, as I observe modern thought and actions.

[@DarthCalculus]

This is a fascinating and helpful analysis. Thank you!

[@heronimousbrapson863]

I've always wondered how many modern online flat earth influencers really believe what they are saying, or whether they are simply grifting.

[@coulie27]

90% of "flat earthers" don't really believe it, it's just way funnier. Especially watching "serious science" people not get the joke. The other 10% know it's probably not true but they love contrarianism and the hunt for counterevidence more

[@theConquerersMama]

Some certainly are grifting and trolling. But seeing the rise of it in countries like Hungary though going along with more and more anti intellectualism has been scary.

[@FishTheJim]

Learned a lot with this one. I have never taken Flat Earth theory seriously and will continue to do so.

[@boatcaptain6288]

Good lol 😂 I'm so thankful I never fell into that trap

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

I thought there was a lot of good points in the flat earth research I did. I was convinced. Was it a "trap"? Being convinced of something based on evidence and critical thinking.

[@boatcaptain6288]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Anyone can be convinced because most people aren't well educated in geology and cosmology, so many things that are unscientific will SOUND rational to them.

[@dkosmari]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr "The research I did" as if you did any. Show us your fabled flat map and we can trivially point out two cities that are far apart in your delusion, but close together in the real world. We can put your model to the test by buying plane tickets and check if they're close together or not.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

I'm failed to be convinced it's a spinning globe, to be honest.

[@aWomanFreed]

Who started it???? Hint: His name starts with G and ends with d

[@themanunleashed]

The problem is that flat earthers think that the earth and the universe is much more simpler than they think. When in reality it's much more complex. Whether a creator made it is a different story.

[@johnqpublic7608]

flat earthers can't comprehend anything more complex.

[@themanunleashed]

@@johnqpublic7608 That is very true. My personal belief about the creation of the earth is to where some entity or force caused the big bang to allow the universe to become what it is today. The Bible explains it in a very poetic manner, given that's how the Greeks spoke. But definitely a lot more complex than someone just spoke, and things just appeared and happened. People like to misinterpret the bible.

[@carynfisher9463]

You are the only person who I'll bother listening to when the subject is flat earthers. I literally cannot stomach this absurdity getting *any* air time. But I love your channel and in the interest of supporting it, I will tolerate the subject for one video.

[@dunoze]

I am genuinely interested as to why people get so upset over this subject . I can understand it may seem strange but such hostility , usually from people that have no clue about the subject ( ie their own proposed cosmology ) anyway but feel the need to get out raged for some reason . Every FE er started under the same spell as everyone else and understand it is not appreciated and will get censored . If it riles you that much I'm sure there are plenty of others that would be only to glad to let me know ! . 😀

[@carynfisher9463]

@@dunoze For me, it's the willful disregard for simple facts. I would be equally outraged at people suddenly insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 and that actual math is a conspiracy. Then, you couple that with other people saying that FE'ers "have a right to their opinion" and my hackles are raised by the implication that the shape of the planet (again, like simple mathematics) is suddenly a matter of opinion. No, it is not. It is a *fact*. Acting like it is not a fact contributes to the overall dumbing down of our entire species, which I believe is an increasingly pervasive and dangerous problem. It's bat-shit crazy paranoia masquerading as intellectualism that festers in the subconscious fear-response of the mere animal lurking in what should be thinking human beings. It angers me, possibly more than the equally stupid-but-with-a-heavy-dose-of-racism Ancient Aliens crap. It recently came to my attention that a friend of a friend is a FE'er and I can't even be in the same room as this guy anymore because of how intentionally stupid he's making literally everyone who gives this stupid "theory" the time of day.

[@aceventura5398]

What proof have you of billions of galaxies other than photos made up by artist employed at NASA. There is none. They can make up anything and it will be believed without proof. All they need do is mock up a photo. It's not science you believe in. You place your faith in providers of information. It's your chosen religion. There is plenty of evidences to allow flat earth to be taken seriously. They won't allow exploration of Antarctica after the first authoritative exploration. If you do manage to get permission after spending over $ 2,000,000, attempting it. It's made impossible by ridiculous restrictions on equipment. No motorised vehicles and no dogs. No gas. So a 400 day trip requires around 1,000 bottles of water per man. No group will make such an attempt. Its suicidal. All governments use flat earth maths trajectories. Flat and non rotating. Russia stated in 1947 " the shape of the earth is unknown" Were teaching flat earth upto 1917. Flat earth claims are not solely the domain of the delusional, stupid , uneducated. They also herald from high IQ 'S having years of intense research on the subject to back them up. Flat earth is very possible.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@aceventura5398 No it isn't. A child can work out that it isn't flat very easily for themselves if they wanted to. Anyone that isn't a child thinking otherwise is either play acting or rampantly stupid.

[@Tom-jw7ii]

@@aceventura5398 That is all nonsense. It is perfectly feasible to take a tour to the South Pole if you have enough money. It is not illegal in any way. About the "flat earth maths," that is what's known as a simplifying assumption. All useful formulas are based on simplifying assumptions to some degree. For most human-scale physics problems, the assumption that the earth is flat and gravity is constant everywhere get you almost exactly the same result as using Newton's law of gravitation, which gets you almost the same result as calculating the effects of gravity using general relativity. There are plenty of situations where it is perfectly reasonable to assume the earth is flat, or a gas is a continuum, or a cow is a sphere, etc.

[@bigboi980]

Yeah, for me it was the ground based distance measurements to find the 7.92 inches per mile squared, to see if there is curve. I found none, and so i droped the heliocentric model. You belive what you want however.

[@MrEjwheeler]

Are you going to share these measurements with us, because every professional surveyor disagrees with you.

[@AcousticBoomstick]

​@@MrEjwheeler no they don't, all surveys are performed on an assumed plane.

[@HenryDurth]

Literally everything proves we are on a flat earth. Only reason they made up all the bs is to deny god. We live in the only world aka Satans world.

[@MrEjwheeler]

@@AcousticBoomstick How long have you been a professional surveyor?

[@AcousticBoomstick]

@@MrEjwheeler for a while now. It always struck me as odd. Like covering a baloon with stamps.

[@happierabroad]

Don't all ancient cultures except the Greeks teach that the Earth is flat? Even the ancient Hebrews did. There are many models and drawings depicting this. The Bible does too of course. There are many Bible verses that say the Earth is flat. It's well documented and obvious. Ridiculing it doesn't change that fact.

[@johnqpublic7608]

_"There are many models and drawings depicting this. "_ your argument is bronze age ignorance?

[@wildanimus2559]

Do you take every word of the Bible in the literal sense?

[@thecontagiouscajun4795]

There are many biblical scholars, such as Michael Heiser, who would like to argue with you concerning what Jews and Christians believed concerning flat earth. Ben Stanhope goes into ancient near east history and beliefs in his book “Misinterpreting Genesis.” He shows the evidence of such beliefs while Heiser goes into the biblical text to show flat earth is biblical cosmology.

[@moggpiano8043]

The work of Biblical scholars is irrelevant until the accuracy of religious history is established. In short, until we know for certain that deities and all connected with them exist, the rest is irrelevant.

[@tjjones621]

Actually, flat Earth is not biblical cosmology. Not one verse in any version says the Earth is "flat." Several says sphere, ball and globe.

[@P.H.888]

@@tjjones621not true.

[@P.H.888]

Sadly he passed

[@P.H.888]

@@moggpiano8043yes we do

[@wadejnelson]

pleased to see Dr. Reeves’ subscription number increasing😮

[@RyanReevesM]

Lost quite a few with this one. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@risinglogosbear1208]

@@RyanReevesMlots of Christian FE out there. Millions..

[@markksargent]

Long Live Flat Earth

[@Xerophyte_Editz]

It never existed tho how would it live long

[@MrEjwheeler]

Don't you have a proper job yet, or are you still hoping Patricia will let you touch your man parts if you stick at it long enough?

[@HenryDurth]

I feel you my man. Praise god for hand crafting a beautiful intelligent designed world

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

marksargent is a conman, scamming the gullible and delusional for profit.

[@2manyIce]

Don't be so modest, you are a scientist. Theology is a science, you are presenting facts, you discuss those facts rationaly, you don't get personal and your conclusions are based on facts. You are as scientific as a video on KZbin can get (more or less).

[@flookd5516]

What’s the scientific basis for a theological fact?

[@harrymaciolek9629]

The common factor I’ve found in flat earth proponents is a lack of and often a contempt of math skills.

[@HenryDurth]

What does the bible say the shape of earth is? Also how do these mathmaticians determine the distance of planets and who is there to fact check these people?

[@MrEjwheeler]

@@HenryDurth "What does the bible say the shape of earth is?" Who cares? You might as well reference Harry Potter, it's as much a science text as the bible. "Also how do these mathmaticians determine the distance of planets" Stellar parallax. "who is there to fact check these people" Other scientists. Peer review and scientific consensus are things.

[@HenryDurth]

@@MrEjwheeler as long as you globers understand your going against the bible then im good with whatever you wanna say lol. Don't forget that we evolved from monkey and it was a accident haha. O yea and Don't forget the dinosaurs .... rawr

[@MrEjwheeler]

@@HenryDurth " Don't forget that we evolved from monkey" "O yea and Don't forget the dinosaurs" I'll take "things that uneducated religitards say" for 500.

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

@@DapperDan2777 absolutely

[@MyRedghost]

I enjoyed your video, thanks for putting that together. I'm a space-systems architect, and have gotten pulled in a few times discussing and trying to counter Flat Earth believers, particularly West Point graduates. I personally know five West Pointers that believe in flat earth. Ironically, Buzz Aldrin, a West Pointer himself, gets very irritated with those people. I, myself, am a Naval Academy graduate, and would say it's impossible to become a Naval officer, understanding celestial navigation, to fall into the flat earth paradigm. There is one point in your video that I disagree with, which is a remark you made about young-earth. While I don't disagree that Rowbotham may have also had that view, the young-earth discussion is not tied to flat-earth. Discussion of physics, radioactive dating, carbon dating, how DNA works as an information system, disproving evolutionary claims, and other such topics, is a valid scientific discussion. But, again, thanks for your video.

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

there are west point graduate flattards? no way.

[@frpgplayer]

I was given pretty good evidence the Earth is flat. Okay, most of the Earth is flat. 71% of the Earth's surface is water. It's not carbonated. Therefore, most of the Earth is flat. Sounded scientific to me.

[@tjjones621]

I agree and the land is made of poprocks! :)

[@TheGreenViewer456]

it’s called *terrain*

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

The flat earth ideas were there from the beginning of Christianity, then Copernicus and Galileo's theoretical ideas changed secular thinking. Catholics didn't want to throw out the bible at first. Then they caved eventually. Eventually the pressure grew too strong. Throughout the way, a couple of people stood up and spoke the truth, but they were buried in the new chosen paradigm that people had grown accustomed to. Then along came the internet! What an amazing flood of knowledge we have now! And so the truth is now coming out. Makes sense to me!

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

the earth isn't flat. you've fallen for the stupidest hoax on the internet.

[@Cup0Coffee]

Nope, that's not true. Early first-century Christians like Clement of Rome for example wrote about the earth being spherical and thought that people lived on the other side of the world. Many other Christians did as well throughout the centuries. The default belief wasn't flat earth before Copernicus, and Galileo. The popular belief was that the earth was round. The main argument for them was heliocentrism vs geocentrism, not earth shape.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@Cup0Coffee True, geocentrism was a more widespread belief. I did find a handful of early Christians that talked about how "antipodes" was a ridiculous idea - that's people that walk upsidedown to our feet. Hanging oceans and hanging fields - what makes the hanging gardens anything special? I thought that was one of the funniest quotes I found from an early Christian.

[@Cup0Coffee]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrOk… 😂

[@nickspence8897]

I have been a devout anti-newtonian since the age of 3. Trust me bro.

[@jayizzett]

Yes lakes and oceans do not curve

[@HugoFilho.]

The mere fact that a horizon exists on lakes and oceans disproves that stupid claim. Hahahahahahahahaha

[@jayizzett]

@@HugoFilho. Interesting logic

[@AlexFoxthrot]

​@@jayizzettA sunset proves you wrong empirically. You Need BASIC geometry to disintegrate FE, sad it's out of your league.

[@HugoFilho.]

​@@jayizzettinteresting indeed. Is funny how even the most basic naked eye observations and a basic understanding of geometry debunk nearly all flattard claims.

[@jayizzett]

@@HugoFilho.can you articulate the curve in a large lake ..

[@paul5882]

the earth always was flat in encyclopedia americana

[@johnqpublic7608]

wrong and stupid.

[@Pantha242]

Is that a fake encyclopaedia?

[@colinvanhook6448]

Does anyone know if he has a patreon or something? I don't really want to do a subscription that I could forget about but I would like to make a one off contribution to this.

[@SoulforSale]

We know without a doubt that the government would not lie to us.

[@tjjones621]

Liar. :)

[@TheGreenViewer456]

true,

[@will14m68]

What does the government have to do with the shape of the earth?

[@jakphannak817]

I agree that the government lies to us about most things, but that doesn't apply to things that are observable and provable like the shape of the earth.

[@sashaisaac-young9183]

For sure. Gov gives us the true story every time. They are the epitome of benevolent.

[@silverumbrella8058]

Join flat earth debate with Nathan Oakley

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

Because it's so productive being muted and screamed at by an Internet troll.

[@swoosh1mil]

‘When did flat Earth theories start?’ - Ever since the Earth was created. 😂

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

In the 1800s. Jesus just watch the video.

[@swoosh1mil]

@@GuardianSoulkeeper Why were people against Christopher Columbus setting out in his three ships? Because they thought he would fall off the edge of the world. What Year was that??? A little bit before 1800’s. 😃

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

@@swoosh1mil Source?

[@swoosh1mil]

@@GuardianSoulkeeper Once upon a time, it made sense for people to believe that the Earth was flat, says University of Melbourne cartographer Chandra Jayasuriya. Ships would sail off toward the horizon and often never return, and those people left behind didn’t really have access to information outside of their communities. Greek philosophers established that the Earth was round as far back as the third century BC, but it wasn’t until the 15th century that it became commonly accepted. (Commonly accepted by who???) I never said that the Earth was scientifically proven to be to flat. I simple stated that 1) flat earth theories were established before 1800’s. In regards to Christopher Columbus the common people would have still believed in those theories. Now you proved me a source that contains a poll dating back to the time of Columbus that proves the majority of common people didn’t believe in a flat earth. Again, I not saying it’s scientifically sound to believe in flat earth. I’m saying the theories have existed before 1800’s.

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

@@swoosh1mil Yes people said the Earth was flat dating back to antiquity. However, those people didn't believe what modern flat earthers tout. They thought the Sun set for everyone at the same time. Modern flat earthers know that's not the case - but they can't explain why.

[@astrobullivant5908]

Nikos Indicopleustes was a Christian Flat-Earther from the 6th Century AD.

[@lumpygasinavacuum8449]

The #1 reason I know space is fake is because earth has air pressure and that requires containment The #1 reason I know earth is flat is the sextant requires a flat baseline to measure angles.

[@HugoFilho.]

Hahahahaha Ypu are just parroting empty claims made by flattard youtubers.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

Well done for proving that you have zero idea how a sextant works. Your cult leaders thank you for being an unquestioning subservient who can't think for themselves.

[@risinglogosbear1208]

The floating flat disc is not what FE believe, you could have at least used their real model in the video.

[@Mark-Stone]

It doesn’t matter what a flat earther believes; it’s all equally ignorant nonsense.

[@MrEjwheeler]

There's a real model? Can you tell us where to find it, because we've been asking for ages.

[@HenryDurth]

Anytime you see someone try to disprove flat earth and they use the google propoganda misinformation pictures you know instantly they are disinformation agents

[@risinglogosbear1208]

@@MrEjwheeler go to flat earth, sun, moon and zodiac on KZbin. Flat earth Dave runs the channel. Go check it out, if you have an open mind you will learn a lot.

[@jawnatutorow]

​@@MrEjwheelerGoogle 'biblical earth model' that's what most fe Christians see it as

[@happierabroad]

How do you explain the high altitude balloon footage we have at 100,000 feet that shows a flat level horizon? That's very hard to explain away and globe earthers usually are stumped and have nothing to say and can't explain it. Yet you can see such footage in many independent videos. Also if 100,000 feet isn't high enough to see curvature then how can you see curvature at ground level when you see ships disappearing over the horizon? You can't have it both ways. That's a big contradiction, especially since using a good telescope or camera zoom, you can see the ships zoom back into view after it's disappeared, which has been demonstrated many times since 2015 when this flat earth debate started. How do you explain this? And why do globe earthers have no explanation to this? All they have is silence and ridicule.

[@HugoFilho.]

*"How do you explain the high altitude balloon footage we have at 100,000 feet that shows a flat level horizon?"* Lets test your claim. Video title: *High Altitude Balloon 18 (Infrared Camera)* This video was produced by a flattard. Another one: *56 Miles (90 km) Above Earth - Successful Amateur Rocket Launch* So your claim of "flat horizon" is BOLLOCKS *"That's very hard to explain away and globe earthers usually are stumped and have nothing to say and can't explain it. Yet you can see such footage in many independent videos."* WRONG! *"Also if 100,000 feet isn't high enough to see curvature then how can you see curvature at ground level when you see ships disappearing over the horizon? You can't have it both ways. That's a big contradiction"* False premise, fallacious "logic" ---> invalid conclusion *" especially since using a good telescope or camera zoom, you can see the ships zoom back into view after it's disappeared, which has been demonstrated many times since 2015 when this flat earth debate started. How do you explain this? And why do globe earthers have no explanation to this? All they have is silence and ridicule."* hahahahhahahaha Apparently you fell for trickery done by flattard con men. "A vessel can "disappear" by: (1) It simply moved away, and its angular size became so minimal that it became unresolvable; or (2) He moved beyond the horizon, so that the Earth, being spherical, began to block his view. Note, in case #1, with the vessel NOT BEYOND the horizon, all you need to do is use lenses, increase the angular size, and you will see it again. In fact, you will continue to see the horizon in the background. The problem, then, was just perspective. In case #2, the vessel will move away, but it will be BEYOND the horizon. You can even use lenses to increase its angular size, but this will not be able to reveal the part of the vessel that is simply obstructed by the Earth's surface. And you, little boy, fell for a pretty stupid trick perpetrated by those who took advantage of your total lack of education. They show a horizon without zoom, and deceive you in the premise, saying that it is case #2 (vessel BEYOND the horizon). They zoom in, see the entire vessel, with the horizon still in the background, and celebrate saying that they "recaptured" the vessel that was "beyond" the horizon. But, in fact, it was simply case #1 (vessel NOT BEYOND the horizon), which was only unseen due to its unresolvable angular size. What they will NEVER show you is an example of, even with zoom, the vessel can be seen (that is, it is not a problem of angular size), but only half way, with the lower half covered by the surface. For that, my dear, there is no zoom that solves it. What can solve this is for you to look for a school and seek more knowledge, so as not to fall for simple tricks like this. If you fell, you were manipulated by con men, young man! But nice try!

[@patricklucas8801]

It's called math, smoke another one.

[@Pantha242]

You're looking at footage from wide angle lenses which swing wildly from convex to concave. Flat Earthers pause the video when it's between the two and claim that the horizon is flat. Somehow forgetting that it wouldn't be flat if it was a disc anyway. You can see curvature on the ocean, from the beach. Both ways.

[@In_Rem]

How can you even begin to compare your 7 and 9 year old of today who do nothing but stare at their dumbing down so called smart phone to either one of yester year who had nothing to do in their spare time but ponder on the wonders of life and physically investigate reality? That in itself demonstrates your inability to intelligently investigate reality.

[@hbgordon7764]

Thanks much for the information shared. Really appreciated to get an understanding of the background and the "why" to flat earth philosophy.

[@FeliX-TobiYahs-C]

The earth is flat, its not a claim or an idea. Its reality! 😊

[@aminmatinhoseini5509]

Just like your brain 😊

[@FeliX-TobiYahs-C]

@@aminmatinhoseini5509...? So we are now making childish insults and baseless assertions instead of proving reality? 🙄 Nice ad hominem fallacy BTW, the globe is sophistry so ofcourse you have to lie to defend it.

[@aminmatinhoseini5509]

@@FeliX-TobiYahs-C The reality has been proven thousand years ago. You're thinking backwards. Now once again, use your imagination and tell me what's on the edge of your pizza world.

[@johnqpublic7608]

@@FeliX-TobiYahs-C "The earth is flat, its not a claim or an idea." it's a psychosis.

[@trailbossdan1]

@@FeliX-TobiYahs-C If you’re genuinely confused then maybe try talking to family or friends about this. You will just be ridiculed on here

[@hickerbilly345]

Straw men make the best opponents

[@tjjones621]

Like when I ask a flatearther about the map they use to navigate Earth.

[@thepotion]

@@tjjones621 The irony.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@thepotion You don't know what irony is do you. Priceless.

[@thepotion]

@@leftpastsaturn67 The irony.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@thepotion I rest my case.

[@wewuzkangz694]

The comments in here are disturbingly similar to how the vaxxed treated the unvaxxed.

[@dunoze]

" Trust the science " .

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@dunoze What would you know about science child?

[@dunoze]

@@leftpastsaturn67 I know enough to know both water and gas both need containment of which the ball model offers neither ! You're getting old and senile I notice ! .

[@rc7625]

Breaking News: A user with a racist username (wewuzkangz694) is a loon that denies science in favor of his politicized and religiously influenced fantasies? More news tonight at 11.

[@pjetri24]

Correct me if I am wrong but are you putting those who believe in a young earth at the same category with those who believe the earth is flat ?

[@JohnHazenhousen]

Are they not just as deluded as each other?

[@leftpastsaturn67]

They're both equally intellectually crippled.

[@Tom-jw7ii]

⁠​⁠Young Earth at least takes a little more digging (literally) and some knowledge of geology and chemistry to realize it cannot be true. Flat Earth only takes basic geometry to realize that it doesn’t work. Although both ideas usually come from Christian fundamentalism, and there’s a lot of overlap between them, so that’s why they’re lumped together.

[@pjetri24]

@@Tom-jw7ii I am a young earther and I find the flat earth theory absurd. To say that the whole creation process is anything else from a 6 literal day process is to not be faithful to the text.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@pjetri24 Both ideas require intellectual dishonesty, wilfull ignorance and emotional immaturity. You're no less absurd than they are.

Rowbotham sounds like a kid that never matured and doubled down as an adult on a punk attitude towards his family. Clearly he wasted so much time in his life that it is no surprise that he tried to come up with a formula for immortality to make up for it.

[@AJMacDonaldJr]

What government contractor initiated the modern flat earth psyop?

[@TheDanEdwards]

Christian fundamentalists, as the Biblical cosmology is a flat-earth cosmology.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Whoever did, did an incredible job making it all seem real! I wonder if they were on the beach messing with my camera as I'm looking way too far if there was a curve. ah well

[@dkosmari]

@@TheDanEdwards It was literally started off by a blaspheming commie, not a Christian. The fact that protestants fell for it is just a natural consequence of protestantism.

[@niteshades_promise]

2009 the new administration reapealed anti-propaganda laws set up after WW2...then shit got weird...🤐🍻

[@jacobsaadya]

It’s a flat field not a disc .

[@leftpastsaturn67]

Yet another example of flat earth larpers not being able to agree on anything. Comedy gold.

[@jacobsaadya]

@@leftpastsaturn67 information -misinformation

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@jacobsaadya Meaningless nonsense is your best response? You clowns are pitifully inadequate.

[@tjjones621]

Nope, it's a globe and your map confirms your indoctrination.

[@jacobsaadya]

@@tjjones621 int a negative projection. The eye is round .

[@anpass3455]

Your history skipped over the part where no one thought we lived on a globe or cared, and forgot to discuss the people who told us, "it's not what your senses tell you, you're confused, it's a globe". It's easier to convince someone that a lie is true, than to convince them they have been lied to. The globe was the lie. The shape didn't matter until the lie. Who made the globe?

[@Mark-Stone]

Proving that Earth is a sphere is trivially easy. Catch up.

[@anpass3455]

@@Mark-Stone you and I can both read a book written by people we don't know and believe what it says. I'm confused by your comment; what does "trivially easy" mean to you?

[@anpass3455]

@@Mark-Stone and I think you missed my point entirely. I don't care if it's round or flat. Who said what? When did they say it? And Why? It's the truth that matters. Which is really not "trivially easy" to prove outside of reading a book. Or maybe it would have been fact prior to within the last 500 years.

[@Mark-Stone]

@@anpass3455 I didn’t miss your point. I addressed it head on. When I said trivially easy, “trivially” meaning without fuss or fanfare, “easy” meaning not hard. Anybody can trivially prove that Earth is a sphere, we don’t need to take anybody else’s word for it. This is objective truth, meaning it’s unaffected by belief or opinion.

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

@@anpass3455 "It's the truth that matters. Which is really not "trivially easy" to prove outside of reading a book. Or maybe it would have been fact prior to within the last 500 years." it requires no more than simple observations and high school level math to easily verify that the earth is a sphere. this is stuff that smart people figured out thousands of years ago. today it's kids stuff.

[@Chase_baker_1996]

Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge which is power; religion gives man wisdom which is control. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[@johnqpublic7608]

"religion gives man wisdom which is control." he's only talking about his religion. he would have scoffed at anyone from any other religion making the same statement, so he doesn't believe is own statement .

[@Chase_baker_1996]

@@johnqpublic7608 how do you know?

[@carolinafine8050]

He’s back! Video series on Milton’s Paradise Lost!!

[@nrev79]

Do a video of when everyone started being taught the ball

[@RidgewayMountainhauser]

they were calculating the size of the spherical earth more than two millennia ago.

[@tjjones621]

Do a video of how to get turn by turn directions on a flatearth map first. :)

[@moggpiano8043]

"Taught the ball"? How could anyone know when that began? We have no way of knowing what everyone thought thousands of years ago. Either way it's a nonsense concept. If there was a time when man did not understand fire, how would that prove that fire doesn't exist now?