Why We Can't Recommend Intel CPUs - Stability Story So Far

[@Tainted79]

This must be serious. Steve's standing.... STANDING!

[@Riyozsu]

He is standing on a pile of ryzen 4070s

[@Haarba1]

Or he simply live in a bad part of town and someone stole his chair :)

[@13bmitchell]

Outstanding.

[@HanmaHeiro]

Hence forth known as Serious Standing Steve mode

[@valenciodiaz2644]

Well the issue of intel is badly OUTSTANDING.

[@Burdman660]

"Intel Inside" is now a warning.

[@HanSolo__]

Proudly: "Intel Outside".

[@polacofederos]

LOL

[@NJ-wb1cz]

PC is just a safe containment vehicle for Intel to prevent it from spreading

[@Audiosan79]

I'm gonna massproduce a sticker. "No Intel inside"🤣 price $599😂

[@UncleButterworth]

@@Audiosan79 Make sure you don't use any of their trademarked stuff.. the WILL sue you over that.

[@jamesherman3750]

Userbenchmark is Seething

[@mjc0961]

"I'm not owned, I'm not owned!" I insist as I continue finding the dumbest reasons imaginable to crap on Ryzen processors

[@exscape]

Userbenchmark is keeping quiet about these issues (as expected) and their page on the 13900K doesn't mention it; it only trash talks AMD as usual. It's really quite hilarious. "Although Ryzen 7000 has weaker multi-core, weaker single-core, higher platform costs and higher unit prices AMD have a 3D joker up their sleeve (7800X3D est. 2023). Via “Advanced Marketing” on youtube, forums, reddit, and twitter AMD will demonstrate that their upcoming CPU is the “best in the world” and offer “proof” by way of a small handful of obscure workloads. Games that few people play e.g. (Factorio, SotTR) will be cherry picked, video footage of the gameplay/settings won’t be provided and frame drops will be conveniently ignored. "

[@DanielFerreira-ez8qd]

​@@exscape Wow, Factorio, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, two of the best games for benchmarking like this... Games nobody plays? What, is the best CPU the one that can handle modded minecraft the best, then?

[@WayStedYou]

userbenchmarks cheques are going to vanish with all these intel job cuts

[@spoils8179]

​@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd I've wanted to see this for so long, Minecraft + modded Minecraft tests

[@Aquineas]

For those who might not be aware, Gelsinger was a VP at Intel during the FDIV fiasco circa 1993. Intel took a long time to admit there was a floating point calculation problem, and when they finally agreed to a recall, initially you had to justify to them that you were worthy of getting your CPU replaced by proving that you used your CPU for floating point. I knew there was a problem months before they "fessed" up because interest rate calculations were off

[@cheshirster]

He was also the CTO in the bribing-reach early 2000's (Intel's CTO from 2001 to 2009)

[@morpheus_9]

Wow what the fuck prove it used FP?

[@gamerdudegamerdude4961]

Consumer: My cpu is dying! Intel: ~Deal with it!~

[@theplayerofus319]

Yourself*

[@Lornext]

"Want to buy a new one?"

[@goluop0982]

Yes I want to buy Intel i5 is safe to buy

[@GoblinGrenade]

If Intel does not recall the affected products , any credibility that they have left will be erased.

[@walkir2662]

And their B2B credibility should already have tanked when Wendell's data isn't an outlier.

[@user-mr1ph2ie3e]

From what we see they don't intend to, they'll just increase the warranty of 2 years

[@jayvee8502]

And what would Intel give you back? Another problematic 13th/14th gen?

[@bigno1900]

@@jayvee8502 they should give an am5 instead for replacement or money all back

[@janbenes3165]

I think recall of this size would turn the 30% stock drop to more like 70%... It might legitimately kill Intel completely, or for any foreseeable future. Not saying they shouldn't do it, but I think they just can't.

[@Ghastly10]

Been a Intel user for years, and with what has been happening was so glad I went AMD for my new system, I dodged huge bullet here.

[@GeminionRay]

I'm an Intel user too, and now I just tell anyone asking me about building a PC to go with AMD if they can afford it. Gen 13 and 14 are basically done for, and Intel won't be gaining back trust for years to come.

[@taza99]

yeah, I'm so glad I went with the cheaper option

[@LilaHikes]

I'm only use Intel because of, as Steve mentioned, the superior single thread performance. If I only needed a pure gaming machine, I'd certainly go AMD. Luckily my last build was with a 12th gen Intel. So yeah, I also dodged a bullet.

[@trparky]

@@LilaHikes But look at what Intel had to do to get that "superior single thread performance"? They had to juice their processors past the breaking point. That's not winning, that's cheating while hoping that nothing goes wrong. Unfortunately, it did and it really blew up in their faces.

[@LilaHikes]

@@trparky Intel's strength has always been single thread performance, even before this latest disaster.

[@Hjominbonrun]

I really want to know what UserBenchmark has to say.

[@MrLense]

This would be funny

[@DeathComeInPeace]

"Intel releases a patch and double beats AMD." Something along those lines :D

[@overtaxed3628]

Sick characters like 'userbenchmark' will, as always, find another culprit. I will never understand this obsession with one and the same brand, no matter how bad it is, it still has its loyal customers (idiots) who will support it. People with a weaker intellect are masochists and Intel targets exactly such types, so this catastrophic episode of Intel will pass without major consequences for a company like Intel.

[@CossackHD]

"Intel releases patch to increase stellar stability to stellaller stability while decreasing power draw of their parts. Performance decreases by 2 to 8% which is good because intel CPUs are too fast anyway." In other news: "AMD's better power efficiency doesn't matter"

[@WayStedYou]

"our checks have stopped, screw intel!"

[@achaycock]

For someone my age, this story sounds awfully familiar. I am old enough to remember the issues with the first Pentium processors and how Intel reacted to the floating point bug. I especially remember Hard[OCP] and Tomshardware reporting on the faulty Pentium III 1.13GHz processor and how they seemed to bully the journalists reporting on this. Intel blaming others has been in their playbook for at least 30 years now and it's such a shame to see them carrying on. I don't game anymore and so my processor needs have changed - funnily enough the e-core and p-core arrangement was appealing for my photo editing while multi-tasking work flow and I am reaching that point of wanting to swap out my aging 9700k. I suspect it will be an 8 or 12 core Ryzen on the horizon for me now. Such a shame.

[@rogehmarbi]

I didn't know Tom's been around for that long. That's fascinating!

[@mckinleyostvig7135]

​@@rogehmarbithere's a reason we all trust Tom's Hardwares. They're THE PC enthusiast institution.

[@Schweppese]

3:16 It was disappointing watching Linus Media Group blame it on the board partners considering how big of a media outlet they are. On the other hand, Gamers Nexus and Level1Techs are doing some excellent journalism and deserve all the praise and support. We as customers should be grateful for their work.

[@MegaGasek]

Disappointing but predictable, right? After all there was a lot of reputation lost by them some months ago from the way they tested stuff. They are an entertainment channel not a tech channel. They look for things that is going to give them the most views. They are not comparable to HU or GN.

[@samhobday1274]

I'm not sure that's strictly true. It certainly included more blame on board partners than most other reporting, but they did put most of the blame on Intel too. The script they used in their video was approved by Level1Techs as accurate. The board partners are not completely blameless in this, so I think it was right to discuss it. I was disappointed they LMG didn't mention GN though, just L1T. They are aimed at a different audience too.

[@limkloosterboer]

​@@samhobday1274actually it LMG has a horrible take on the situation. Their video set a terrible tone towards the real problem; Intel new more then two years ahead that there were issues. Not informing their partners is just a crime

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

😂😂

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@limkloosterboer LMG is a media corporation that needs good relationships with Intel, they've became too big for their own good a long time ago. At some point I started telling KZbin to stop recommending me anything related to Linus whenever O see it, and my algorithm got way better. There's absolutely nothing of value lost

[@aqualung2000]

The number of Intel fans (and even KZbin channels!) that are _still_ defending Intel is absolutely shocking.

[@TheIndulgers]

People often cannot admit that they made a bad decision buying a product, especially one so expensive. They cannot admit it to themselves because they don't want to feel stupid. Human nature really. It is just cope.

[@vadnegru]

I didn't see any😅

[@wingman-1977]

Fanboys will be fanboys.

[@Blinker18]

​​@@vadnegru LTT still blames the motherboards partners.

[@vadnegru]

@@Blinker18 latest videos aren't. They still might be slow in updates tho.

[@warnacokelat]

Born too late to own a house, too soon to be a tiktok influencer, but just in time to see the downfall of Intel in real time.

[@KellicTiger]

LOL. If you think they are going anywhere you weren't around for the floating point bug in the 90's or the Pentium 4 cluster F in the early 2k's. Intel isn't going anywhere......at least for this issue. The concern I have is a lack of preparing for an ARM transition. Even AMD is starting to poke at that in their dev teams.

[@emilcost8613]

Great comment.

[@DocNo27]

@@KellicTiger The problem with your analogy is in the 90's there wasn't a viable alternative to Intel. That's no longer the case. Not only is AMD firing on all cylinders, Arm is also rising as a viable alternative too.

[@Chopper153]

Lmao

[@inkredebilchina9699]

@@DocNo27 "firing on all cylinders" noice! 😁

[@WayStedYou]

15,000 people used to work here, now it's a ghost town

[@BlackJesus8463]

Why does TSMC do so much better on the same machines?

[@megea792]

COD4MW Pripyat Mission

[@GewelReal]

​@@BlackJesus8463know-how how to use them 100% correctly

[@WayStedYou]

@@BlackJesus8463 TSMC didnt sit idle since their entire business relies on making better wafers than glofo/intel etc. Intel made gobs of money from selling chips alongside having foundries, then got complacent while AMD went and made ZEN then came back.

[@club4ghz]

How is it ghost town when there is still over 120.000 left ?

[@BSD2000]

Thought I'd share my experience. I purchased a boxed 13900K, Asus Z690-E Gaming motherboard and Corsair Dominator 2X16GB 5600MT/s RAM in November, 2022. In the beginning, I didn't have any major issues but within five months I started to see the classic issues of a degraded CPU: BSOD's, Out of VRAM in games, decompression issues, desktop stuttering and lag, freezes, random reboots, USB ports disconnecting and reconnecting, POST boot failures when running XMP profiles (dropping RAM speed down to 4800), extremely high total system power at idle (250-300W) and over 600W under full load (with temps over 200 degrees), Cinebench and other CPU benchmarks freezing, crashing and not completing - just to name a few. Like everyone in the beginning, I started trouble shooting the issue and tried: BIOS updates, BIOS settings, three different sets of RAM, three motherboards (Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master, MSI Z790 MEG ACE, Asus Z790-E Gaming), three power supplies (Asus Thor 850W and 1200W, Thermaltake Tough Power 1200W) - but all of the issues followed the processor. I finally filed a warranty claim with Intel at the beginning of May, 2024. At first, I went back and forth with Intel for a few weeks as they replied with BIOS suggestions to try, none of them worked. On May 30th, they finally admitted the CPU was defective, so I paid $630 for a cross-shipped replacement. The replacement arrived and I tested it in my MSI Z790 MEG ACE motherboard. I confirmed it had the X0125 microcode and It had a much higher serial and batch number. It was boxed, but it had a sticker on it stating it came from inventory marked 'good'. Within a few days the USB disconnect/reconnect issue started happening and instead of crashing when starting Unreal games, it was choppy and stuttered until the game was fully loaded. On the fourth day, it BSOD while playing a KZbin video, ironically about the whole Intel issue. I took that as a sign. That weekend, I drove down to my local Micro Center and picked up an AMD 7950X3D, Asus X670E Proart Creator motherboard, Crucial 2TB T705 Gen5 NVME and a set of 2X32GB Corsair Dominator Titanium 6000MT/s RAM. I swapped everything out and all of my issues disappeared. I couldn't be happier with AMD. Temps are stable, power consumption is half of my 13900K system and games load and play as they should. This is how I expected my 13900K system to run, but it was a nightmare of issues for over a year. Switching to AMD has been pure joy and I can't see myself going back to Intel anytime soon.

[@vprwave]

Wow, what a pita of an experience. Good you are enjoying it now again! What did you do with all the parts you swapped during troubleshooting (mainboards, ram)? Were you able to return them, or had to hang on/sell second hand?

[@christopherjames9843]

Nice. I have had several Ryzen systems since 2017 and have had nothing to complain about. I also live near the Yonkers, NY Microcenter.

[@chubbysumo2230]

they sent you a refurb that was bad. I would start demanding a refund, and get in line, because intel is gonna work hard to deny refunds.

[@BSD2000]

@@vprwave Yeah, I love my 7950X3D system - couldn't be happier with it. As for the parts, they are all sitting on my shelf, waiting to be sold on eBay since it's past the return window. I'm not sure what to do with the processor yet. I thought about making a KZbin video of either drilling a hole through it or snapping it in half, just because I hate it so much. lol

[@BSD2000]

@@chubbysumo2230 A refund would be the best case scenario since I don't want another Intel CPU. Maybe I'll start a trend by making a video of destroying the CPU and posting it on KZbin, just to watch the fanboys explode in anger. That could be fun. lol

[@ryanj610]

This is worst case scenario for a microchip company. They sell ~40 million chips a quarter. If even 25% of them are affected models, they're looking at nearly 100 million CPU's that in theory need replacing. That is, simply put, bankruptcy, to initiate a recall.

[@MBSteinNL]

They still would need to do it, at least under US and EU rules. The more they postpone it, the bigger the risk they get a massive regulatory slap plus will be forced to initiate a broader recall for anything even slightly potentially affected. Unless they can prove the cause are other factors, but with what we know atm that seems unlikely.

[@honeybadger6275]

They'd probably get a bailout like the automotive industry did. After all they're part of the military industrial complex.

[@cheshirster]

Most of those 40mln are notebook CPUs that don't degrade that fast. It will be pricey, but Intel CAN afford desktop RPL recall.

[@John.Philip.Tan876]

Intel really released an entire platform (lga1700) that only has one working generation.

[@grantsparks6554]

That's not a fair assessment, some of the lower SKU 13th gen parts are fine... because they are rebadged Alder Lake parts (12th gen), with the lower cache size and no performance gains... Wait a minute... you're exactly right. 😬

[@nipa5961]

Intel finally changed their "2 generations per socket" strategy! XD

[@triadwarfare]

​@@grantsparks6554i guess you mean i3s because i5s might also be affected as stated in the video

[@derek8564]

@@triadwarfare technically all 13th and 14th gen are affected, the i5's and i3's aren't pushed as hard so they will last a little longer. Anything with E cores really will be an issue.

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

Competing against the end of the legendary AM4 and the start of AM5, the latter of which just got an extension on how long AMD has promised to support it. 😅

[@Maxrepfitgm]

I have applied the too broke to buy new CPUs patch so I'm immune to intel's stability issues

[@fajaradi1223]

On another word, you've been financially cancelled from having this problem. Right said mate?

[@wtfbros5110]

am4 cpus are cheap as hell tho

[@kenshiman90]

too bad you werent on am4

[@Masaim6]

​​@@wtfbros5110They might already have Zen 3.

[@jk-mm5to]

I have applied the "too broke to buy new" patch so many times that my garage is now packed with Intel ewaste.

[@Gurkx]

Shouldn't the retail stores also warn customers about intel?

[@Chris-w2q]

Yes. They absolutely should warn them ⚠️

[@Dan460x]

I'm working retail as well as build PCs for customers and I have been actively warning people about that issue. I still get customers who will actively trust Intel on this because "they have been doing this a long time, I have always had Intel and won't switch". It's rather frustrating really, but hey it's their time and money, who am I to tell them what they should do with their money hahaha. We get RMAs of 13th and 14th gen CPUs and are expected to replace the part on site...it obviously doesn't work that way. It's Intel's fuckup, not ours.

[@anthonynehoda2064]

I would assume they dont as they need to sell those CPUs, but some probably do to avoid problems with angry customers

[@anthonynehoda2064]

But in our local marketplaces Intel is not popular anyway, AMD stays on top sales and most popular Intel CPUs is from 12th gen

[@savagej4y241]

@@Dan460x Yup, brand loyalty in action. Anyone working with the public sees it sooner or later. Marketing is invested into because it works on some people. Well, it means more business for you at least, maybe not the kind you wanted, but its better than no business.

[@BrandensOutdoorChannel]

A few months ago a friend of mine asked me to build him a PC to replace his 12 year old Dell. I went with an AM5 socket and 7700X CPU. Very glad I did because he knows nothing about computers and we avoided this Intel headache.

[@jon-umber]

Can't recommend Intel CPUs but have affiliate links to buy them in the video description?

[@-Pedry]

Yeah wtf... 😂

[@BigBear--]

Probably either an oversight on their part, as it's a standard load out for their video. Or they realize people will still be buying Intel CPUs regardless of what's going on. Though they tell you that they personally would not recommend them right in the video. Also...interesting there are no 14th gen parts on that list.

[@danut05]

Not recommended but if you are a Intel fanboy, you can still support the channel that way.... it's not rocket science

[@marcusthorburn7414]

He's right intel my self it's apparently all fixed now to much voltage to the motherboard from the manufactures my i7 14700kf if running great got it unlimited power no overclock hitting 5ghz out the box can't go wrong

[@BigBear--]

​@@marcusthorburn7414If you think it's the motherboards fault, or that you're fine "hitting 5ghz out the box" then you have no idea what the primary current Intel failures were or what was causing them, or how and when they occur. They don't have problems out of the box, in fact they always seemed to hit spec, and OC easily. The problem was on the Intel side, and it was an internal Intel microcode issue. The CPUs would degrade over time, but rather quickly, and start to lose performance and stability over time. Creating errors, crashes, lower clockspeeds, and other random issues. This degradation is not reversible. Once it starts to occur, there is nothing you can do to fix it, other than replace the CPU. The damage is permanent. Intel has released updated microcode "fixes", that supposedly "fix" the issues. Along with a very complicated and confusing set of new official recommendations for how to setup the CPU power profiles in BIOS. You can check with your board manufacturer for the latest BIOS update that includes the latest microcode fixes from Intel, along with looking up the Intel recommendations for how to set up the power profiles. People/Reviewers are currently testing the supposed microcode fix, and whether it truly fixed the issue, or just prolonged the time it takes to degrade the CPUs. Cause if you have to run the CPU at a lower power/performance profle that can't hit the advertised specs, than what's the point, and it's not an actual fix. Either way...good luck with yours, but there's no way I'm trusting Intel for now, at least definitely not the 13th/14th gen, until proven otherwise, or proven with the next generations without issues.

[@tommihommi1]

you know it's serious when the CEO is literally posting bible quotes about looking forward on twitter

[@kesamek8537]

Puppet figure installed by NSA reading the prepared script.

[@fateunleashed9680]

Cuz they know they're gonna need a miracle to prevent things from getting worse. While at the same reloading the gun they've been shooting their feet with lol

[@burner8959]

When they told the CEO the next generation was going to be called Raptor Lake, he thought they said Rapture Lake...

[@klipklapklop3359]

​@burner8959 they got the name right they sent their company back to the jurassic periods

[@pf100andahalf]

Got a link?

[@Zzzlol94]

"Intel CPUs crashing clearly shows Intel gives you the highest performance possible and gives you the most out of your money." -UserBenchmark, probably

[@KJTD]

It simply shows that Intel is trying its hardest to deliver the fastest products on the market, and 1 or 2 products "supposedly" breaking is merely a demonstration of their insane technology. - Userbafrshmark, soon enough

[@NJ-wb1cz]

Crashing helps you moderate your device usage. The more it crashes, the more breaks you take, healthier it is for you

[@Windowsinside]

This is a new feature intel implemented to help intel users managed there screen time and save there eyes from burning out, intel will be sending a bill to pay for this new "upgrade" that they implemented without intel users permission because intel decided to, intel users will also have to send intel an apology letter for doubting intel performance (how dare you you!) Also its to help intel users save money from there electricity bill ( Green New Deal (GND), also intel need intel users to focus on intel product and not the new AMD Ryzen processor that are better in quality, performance and technology, don't look at AMD! And don't listen to this you tuber, he doesn't know what he is talking about, intel knows best!...........

[@AdrianOkay]

You should have made your own investigation before buying this CPU, if you degraded it is because you didn't lower the voltages, you deserve this -Actual quote from Framechasers

[@MidnightMotorcyclist]

Actually Puget Systems is doing damage control for Intel and says it's AMD with the higher failure rate.

[@bonevgm]

Oh no, a video without bemching! In all seriousness, thank you for the hard work covering a topic affecting so many people.

[@countmorbid3187]

I saw the "bemching" vid today ... forgot who made that.

[@bonevgm]

@@countmorbid3187 It was @danielowentech . Another great tech channel.

[@1_2_die2]

@@countmorbid3187 Daniel Owen did it. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGGwmHSoqbCFj9E)

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@countmorbid3187 I saw someone bemching 200kg in shorts

[@countmorbid3187]

@@NJ-wb1cz Damn ... that was a serious obese cpu then ...

[@danielranc8963]

I see similarities between Boeing and Intel downfalls : greed, maybe corruption, short-term strategies etc. Very sad. And you're right, competition is urgently needed; an Airbus monopol would be as damaging as an AMD monopol. But both Boeing and Intel will need years to restore confidence.

[@barrykelly7056]

I have a 13700K for almost 2 years now with no issues. I do have an AIO installed. My son recently bought a 14900K with the same AIO and has has no issues with it yet. Thought he only has is around 3 months. I did install the base line bios for him at that time when he got it. I will be keeping a close eye on both CPUs all the same. I think my next CPU will be an 8800x3d when they come out next year.

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

Intel shipped the new 7nm K CPUs spiking 1.60V out of the box... I get nervous around 1.40V with my older 11700K. Keep ohms law in mind while playing in BIOS.

[@Dzugashvili]

same here, i undervolted it from the get go and been just peachy

[@donkeymoo1581]

I mean 13th gen is just a lower clocked 14th gen so you might get away with it by luck. A lot of the 13th gen dead cpus was also coming from an oxidation problem not the pushing the limits that 14th gen are all dying from. still wouldnt just blindly assume your cpus will be fine though. and having an AIO is pretty irrelevant. Almost no cases of dead 13th/14th gen cpus is coming from too high temps.

[@icecreamsandwichiify]

My 13700kf has been just fine for about a year. No spikes above 1.3v, and doesn't run THAT hot ..not as hot as people say it does... Bench never goes above 84c with stock LIM.

[@xxMIK1989xx]

Had my 13700k for almost 10 months now, no issues. I'm using stock clocks, but undervolted by -0.1v adaptive+offset. Using Noctua U14S cooler with a second fan, under full load in Cinebench R23, voltage is around 1.218v and temperatures are under 95C for a few runs, while consuming about 225w of power.

[@bluesrike]

And Userbenchmarks has the gall to call people who buy AMD and recommend it "neanderthals". 🤣

[@Chris-w2q]

Lmao f Roll lmao fofl

[@bladeoflucatiel]

Really? 😂😂😂😂😂

[@alphawolf6708]

@@bladeoflucatiel Heres wut they have to say about the Ryzen 5 7600x "Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing techniques, it’s hard not to admire their technical progress. AMD-Raptor4 and Intel-Zen13 would be better fitting product names."

[@kunka592]

Homo sapiens mixing with neanderthals is what gave (most of) us our increased intelligence, so take it as a compliment.

[@bluesrike]

@@kunka592 I think the people running Userbenchmarks come from a line of humans that didn't come from homo sapiens mingling with neanderthals.

[@auritro3903]

I clicked on the video faster than an intels stock price crashing

[@aeromotive2]

oof

[@KJTD]

It was quite slow actually. The news broke a while back but the stock only dropped in the last week(s)

[@EskiZagra]

I never knew humans can be faster than light!

[@salty-nick]

@@KJTD 30% in one day last week but also 57% this year

[@haukionkannel]

You have to be really fast! Have you considered a job as street hustler?

[@jimmahT]

Intel are delaying the microcode update until after the AMD 9000 CPU release occurs so the benchmarking results don't look as bad on the day 1 reviews. Would love to see reviewers give Intel the middle finger here and show benchmarks stating 13900/14900 CPUs unstable/crashed or otherwise did not complete on the benchmarking charts.

[@derek8564]

the patch isn't going to be pretty, A) it won't fix CPU's that have degraded but are semi-functional and b) Voltage and E-cores are going to have to be reduced/disabled. Performance is going to nose dive.

[@nekogami87]

That doesn't work chronology wise. They announced it before AMD actually talked about their own delay. You are looking at things that are not there.

[@drewnewby]

@jimmahT I suggested they only include 12th gen in the charts. I build only 12th gen and AMD for current customers, since many of us were warned off 13th gen early. Seems fair to just ignore their existence until Intel presents a real solution. A microcode update cannot resolve this design flaw. Those algos are completely borked for what the silicon can handle even at 65 W.

[@sirmonkey1985]

@@nekogami87 it still works assuming AMD actually hit their launch date. that would give them 12-18 days post AMD launch. that being said it was never going to matter and i think the middle of aug was a hail mary hope that they find a fix by then because they've had at least 2 years of knowing about this issue to figure it out and still haven't.

[@donkeymoo1581]

Nah this is a bad take. They are delaying the update because the fix is not a real fix it wont solve anything. The delay is to push them closer to 15th gen because as soon as their new cpus are out they can ignore all the problems with 13th/14th gen just pass it off as old news. The performance wont change at all with this microcode update. Just it wont fix anything else either. People have already undervolted these things from day 1. Voltage has never been the issue outside of the 0.5% who were actually trying to overclock these things. Intel are just liars.

[@Swolesy]

In Australia this is a breach of consumer protection laws as the product doesnt work as expected.

[@olliebrown89]

I don't make many good decisions in life, but switching to amd after the 8700k was a masterstroke.

[@kaithong8482]

oh no, this video is going to be posted on r/intel, steve will be hated, this channel will be labeled as AMDUnboxed, the 6 redditors will say their system has no issue with intel cpus after 4 weeks of use

[@The_Chad_]

What they'll probably do is laugh at everybody in the tech press for ignoring this for 2 years while those guys already knew there would be issues immediately and had an obvious solution. That's why they haven't had any problems with their CPUs.

[@davinhunt7558]

@@kaithong8482 I have a13600k for over a year with no issues

[@srn7254]

I hate you for making me defend redditors, but that sub has been dumping all over Intel these past few weeks - they've also crucified the mods after GN called them out lol

[@Chopper153]

My 13600k bought in Nov 2022 also has no issues. But that's because I locked the Vcore to 1.18V. It will take more time for mine to degrade. Obviously, I won't buy Intel again.

[@wyrmhand]

Unable to, it was auto-deleted!

[@BSGNZ]

This is going to haunt Intel for at least a few years. Here in NZ, companies that build PCs overwhelmingly use 13/14k chips. Very few AMD options unless you pick all your own parts. For normies out there, they are going to be none the wiser about this issue.

[@ivok9846]

"normies" as non-gamers? does the bug happen on video encoding?

[@Chrissy717]

​@@ivok9846 it happens to everyone. The problem is caused by JUST using the processor. No specific program required.

[@awebuser5914]

_"companies that build PCs overwhelmingly use 13/14k chips..."_ ...annnnd the vast majority of those chips will be generic i3/i5 and i7 variants that are complete unaffected by the i9k "issue",

[@el_teodoro]

@@awebuser5914 How do you know it only affects the i9? Do you work at Intel?

[@DerIchBinDa]

@@awebuser5914 That is a bold faced lie!

[@1Grainer1]

from what i've seen on GN piece, there were reports on forums in mid 2022, so it being known since 2023 is an understatement

[@Chopper153]

13 gen was launched in Oct 2022.

[@1Grainer1]

@@Chopper153 post on Nov 24, 2022 "noticed some reports" so not even single one, more than that... month after launch, so they took almost 2 years and new gen to do something about that mid 2022 was figure of speech, since it was found very early

[@guipace]

You guys should remove the affiliate links to Intel cpus from the video description if you don’t recommend them.

[@rogerk6180]

Why, there will always be idiots that still buy them. Might as well have them support the channel.

[@lukaede7172]

If you watched the video and still decided to buy it that’s on you.

[@Oneiric_Benevolence]

​@@lukaede7172"If I sell you drugs but tell you that they will ruin your life, then it's your fault for bying them" yeah that logic is not logical

[@lukaede7172]

@@Oneiric_Benevolence 2 different things, one of them is not illegal. No one is forcing you to buy anything, it’s your choice your responsibility. If you don’t like it just stay home.

[@lt3880]

​@@Oneiric_Benevolence Here in Australia cigarette packages have grotesque images of decay and disease caused by smoking all over them. Maybe Intel should be putting cooked chips on their packaging.

[@maikatase]

Great video, I've had so many people try to defend this or downplay this saying "these are just gaming CPUs" "no one uses these for servers" The tech industry has been so unreliable these past few years

[@TIB1243S]

Came here to see HUB's take on the issue, and I believe what's missed in other places are the fact that Intel *allowed* its board partners to run out of spec. If anyone is to be blamed for their own mistakes it's Intel's own. And them refusing to take responsibility for the whole issue for several months (until the recent 2 year warranty extension for BOXED CPUs) and asking people to spam their RMA, despite also knowing that they would reject your RMA, is just plain stupid. If you know you have this issue, shouldn't you communicate with your department handling your RMA that all CPUs with that same issue that your own company disclosed should go through? Why are they even being rejected (or at worse, confiscated!), if even at all?!?! Intel, are you the same company that handles your own RMA? Why is it so disconnected???

[@KiltedCritic]

It's not like Intel would have any say on how Intel support runs, that be crazy!

[@LilaHikes]

@@KiltedCritic Shareholders: _"That's right because we do. And we'll be damned if we let our stock prices slip because of this... this.... hiccup."_ That's the general mentality when bean counters are in charge.

[@TIB1243S]

@ILovePancakes24 exactly. It is slimy at best and outright cheating your customers at worst. It just completely negates the benefits of the 2-year warranty extension.

[@Shane-Phillips]

Still being polite, there basically wasn't a spec for them to violate in the first place. When motherboards running a 14900K at 65 watts and at 400 watts can be defined as in spec (and Intel admitted as much, check Steve's first video on the subject) you obviously need an actual spec for them to violate. With Intel being behind on process and tech, and only being able to compete by blasting the CPUs with power, the sad thing is it's unlikely that Intel will actually define anything concrete as spec until enough peed off consumers stop buying their hardware.

[@GhengisJohn]

Just wanted to say, excellent pfp.

[@PaulRKeeble]

When it comes to the upcoming AMD CPU reviews at this point it would be reasonable to exclude anything but Intel 12th gen, the 13th and 14th gen CPUs are faulty and no one should be buying them. I can see some interest in people with those CPUs getting rid of them and comparing performance but its just misleading to have them pictured normally against CPUs that work properly.

[@riba2233]

intel went from "plug and play" option to "k skus are for enthusiasts anyways so you need to know how to tweak them" 😅

[@vadnegru]

And patch bios

[@NJ-wb1cz]

​@@vadnegru *baos

[@vadnegru]

@@NJ-wb1cz Basic Anput Output System?

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@vadnegru Basic Australian Output System

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

Yes, the unlocked CPUs. Still should not have let 1.60V spikes out of the box just for the sake of benchmark reviews.

[@Drak976]

AMD >does nothing >wins

[@lt3880]

The steven bradbury method

[@viperx7262]

literally

[@CheesyPotat0]

The microcode update is out now. I just updated the BIOS on my Asus Z790-E a couple hours ago. Everything is running well so far. This was my first time updating a board's BIOS. I wouldn't bother unless I felt it was really important. It went pretty quick and easy. People just need to make sure to format their USB drive to FAT32 and use the BIOS rename tool if you have an Asus mobo. It seems I needed to keep the BIOS CAP file inside the folder the files come in. Originally, I didn't have it in the folder. The update didn't want to show up in my BIOS at first. I used a different USB port after making sure the CAP file is inside the folder. I then made sure to select the Intel Default Settings profile by pressing F5 before pressing F1 to go into the BIOS.

[@jedadiahtucker2132]

this feels like a law suit is almost inevitable. if the fixes lower performance, and we now know they knew there was a problem. isnt that atleast false advertising?

[@R4d1o4ct1v3_]

There are already class action suits in the works. Will be interesting to see if any of their corporate customers sue tho. As for false advertising. There's has always been a lot of that in the tech space, sadly. (With plenty of blame to go around all these companies.) It rarely gets address by any authority. When it does, it's usually just a half hearted warning to take it down a notch.

[@inner__]

so happy my system is sitting with a 7800X3D hearing all this news.

[@robertjif6337]

same, I dodge a bullet, was going to get 14700K, the shop clerk told me to get 7800x3d, he use it on eco mode, barely using any electricity

[@Chris-w2q]

​@@robertjif6337done you a solid there mate

[@connivingkhajiit]

5700X3D here. Glad I went with AMD for the power efficiency. I knew off the bat that the dogshit efficiency of the Intel chips meant the architecture was just inherently bad, now here we are.

[@berkertaskiran]

@@robertjif6337 That's because it barely has any cores. Sure it's nice for games but not so nice for many other stuff.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@inner__ seriously though, AMD users need good Intel CPUs as much as Intel users. Without competition AMD will stagnate or start ripping you off

[@Kapono5150]

After how Intel has handled this situation and confirmed for me that I will never support a company that treats their customers like this. Intel tried soo hard to skirt around this

[@Samuel-ft9hq]

nvidia = intel = greedy..

[@kl0ness]

Almost every big company treats their customers like shit. Welcome to real world. With little persistence and patience, the only one one who can solve your problem is ultimately YOU or your tech savy friend.

[@andersjjensen]

From "Intel Inside" to "Inferno Inside". Also: 1:35 I had forgotten just HOW stagnant Intel was for 5 years in a row. Once 10nm rolled around Alder Lake extracted everything from it, and 13/14th gen went where no CPU should ever go.

[@31LR176]

I am still running today a 2013 HOT AMD Fx 8350 CPU and have no stability issues lol!

[@vogonp4287]

Old chips are crazy stable. I have a heavily used FX 6300 that has no issues at all. Thing still runs the exact same as when I built the PC. No deviation from the clock rate, no crashes, no weird problems, and just a stable system. The cooler is loud, but that's always been the case.

[@31LR176]

@@vogonp4287yes the fx line are loud cpu´s!The coolers even the aftermarket ones and the powersupply fan run harder and louder because of the higher power draw and heat TDP of the FX line of cpu´s!The ps4 runs a costume version of the fx line architecture called code name jaguar!Cheers

[@NotHimJim]

I changed from 13900k to 7950x3D and I’ll change to the next AMD cpu with the same motherboard. 😁👍

[@stangamer1151]

Intel CPU is not an option for me anymore. They have to release a long living platform with, at least, two true generations of CPUs supported. Not with 2 or 3 fake generations, as they always do. I hope current situation will force them to follow AMD's AM4 and AM5 steps.

[@tringuyen7519]

Yes, Zen5 & Zen 6 CPUs will still use your AM5 motherboard.

[@deant6627]

I fixed all the stability & out of vid mem issues I was having by unplugging the Xbox controller I had plugged in. Out of curiosity, did you have an Xbox controller plugged in?

[@andersjjensen]

@@deant6627 You delayed the issue. Unplugging USB devices with a high polling rate reduces the number of hardware interrupts Windows has to handle, and the voltage spike that knocks the ring bus silly typically happens right when the Windows task scheduler halts running processesses. If you want to see your issue return, just make a 10GB 7zip file and try to unzip it multiple times in a row.

[@TheKetsa]

Motherboard makers shall sue intel, they've been asked for months to fix their BIOS' and delivered several versions... then we learn it's the CPUs.

[@StanleyKubick1]

tell me you're eastern european without saying you're eastern european lol

[@CBadger]

My mate has a 14700K and he's had many game crashes, some won't even launch, even had a BSOD with one game. Not sure if this issue is what is going on for him, but he's currently playing on his old 9700k PC with no issues, and is going through tech support with Overclockers UK over the 14700k. All of this couldn't be happening to a more deserving company, aside from Nvidia of course.

[@B1u35ky]

Yea I think NVidia deserves way worse

[@danieltoth9742]

The company deserves it for sure, but the customers don't. This whole situation is as much of a disaster for us as it is for Intel.

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

Does he know about HWDINFO64...Play in the BIOS and keep ohms law in mind.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

💀

[@QuantumConundrum]

Give it 2 years and amd will be just like intel. Geed doesn't have a color, it's universal.

[@faydark8805]

I've heard bits n pieces about this over the past few weeks, but haven't had time to read/watch them all, so I appreciate a video summary like this of the status of the issue. Thanks!

[@amigatommy7]

Replace with what? Are they making any chips that work?

[@JustMe-jj6lm]

Maybe reviewers should benchmark ONLY against 11 and 12 gen and pretend 13 and 14th does not EXIST. Is fair because Intel does the same with their costumers,

[@TigonIII]

Nah, they should just always load the very limiting Intel Baseline profile, which severely hampers the 13th/14th gen CPUs to the point of them being as bad (if not more so) than 12th gen.

[@R4d1o4ct1v3_]

@@TigonIII honestly yea. If Intel is recommending those specs to their customers, those are the specs that should be used for testing.

[@frankmoras63]

microcode nerf and extreme profile might already give them a slight nudge downward but actively recommending against them is going to hurt it will keep the story alive

[@WilliamOwyong]

Fairly sure GN is using a 12700KF testbench. Not sure if they "upgraded" yet

[@rhesaramadhan8474]

What's the point of having a blazing fast CPU if it does not work as intended (and sometimes, at all)

[@Chris-w2q]

Blazing? Really?

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

Intel should have shipped it tuned down and let the users crank it up. How CPUs used to be...

[@davide4725]

@@michaelsoutherland3023 Yeah I believe that's one of the main issues. Most AMD CPUs are overclockable out of the box, most Intel CPUs have already been pushed as far as they can go at time of manufacturing. They have been squeezing every last bit of performance from 10nm+++++ for a decade with ZERO INNOVATION and it's finally biting them in the ass.

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

@@davide4725 The upcoming 9000X series boosts around 5.4GHz out of the box. The 14900K boosts around 6.0GHz out of the box. The thing is, Intel has that 7nm CPU spiking up to 1.60V out of the box being sure to hit that 6.0HGz or so... I get nervous around 1.40V with my older 10nm 11700K and it's currently fixed at 1.15V for 4.0GHz all core because I have the personal space heater option turned off for the summer.🙃 That 1.60V can be useful for extreme OC but it's terrible for daily use.

[@Samuel-ft9hq]

the point = disaster..

[@Major.Alvega]

I don't understand why the 5800X3D isn't mentioned in this video! /s 🤣

[@RobBCactive]

Don't worry AMD compared the Ryzen 9000 vs 5800x3D GOAT

[@The_Noticer.]

Its a video about unstable CPU's.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@Major.Alvega Snapdragon 888 was curiously also omitted. And they didn't say anything about Apple's M2! I smell a conspiracy, it's almost like those CPUs weren't produced by Intel

[@nicovega1831]

@Major.Alvega made my day 😁

[@saricubra2867]

12th gen Core i7 12700K is faster in gaming, night&day difference in productivity and value.

[@CesconetoG]

40 instances os "issue" or it's brother "issues" in 16:24, once every 24.6 seconds. It's a new record!

[@rgstroud]

Fixing the power spikes during idle periods with the microcode will only delay the death of the CPU since it still needs to spike during regular workloads as designed. The only way to fix the CPUs is to fix the power rail dificiency design which means replacing all the CPUs.

[@Hjominbonrun]

For the Ryzen release, will you be including the Intel CPU's in the comparison? I mean, if they are ultimately fast but broken, then makes comparisons difficult.

[@bulletman001]

Lmao good point

[@IanSinclair77]

Yup. Thats what I'm trying to figure out. It works great....when it works....

[@vadnegru]

Word on the street that first revision are extremely coocked but later batches are quite ok after sotware fixes

[@Hjominbonrun]

@@vadnegru But then with software fixes, we need new benchmarks cos they were previously benched at red line.

[@rflair]

@@vadnegru What streets? What you said makes no sense, if later batches were fixed Intel should then release problematic batch numbers to replace with the 'fixed' revision.

[@Lionel212001]

Intel joined the dark side to beat AMD and Apple. They paid the price for unlimited powah!

[@cal2127]

intel was the dark side 20 years ago when they would pay dell not to use better amd cpus under the table

[@Lionel212001]

@@cal2127 I don't feel sorry for them. They haven't mended their ways since the Athlon XP days when their pentiums fell short.

[@valenciodiaz2644]

​@@cal2127 in my country, almost all of the gaming laptops are freaking intel with 13th-14th gen. Thank goodness I hesitated from buying a gaming laptop and sticking to my shitty laptop for now.

[@LiLBitsDK]

Intel has always been on the dark side... look up their story ;-) bribing companies to only use Intel, ruining other companies, lying etc. etc.

[@zechssiguro7476]

​@@valenciodiaz2644I wish I had your patience...now I'm here hoping MSI USA start offering their high end gaming laptops with AMD drivers...like original Korean MSI , indi china and all others are doing with the Titan, Raider & Stealth 18...offering an "A18" AMD mobile CPU version....I bet people in those countries are requesting swaps like COVID Boosters....

[@Bassjunkie_1]

Increasing the warranty by 2 years means nothing. I say that because, i look in my spare room at all my old pcs with there completely functional10 to 20 year old cpus. No one ever really thinks about warranty for their pc, ok some do, but unlike your GPU which you care to have a warranty for, who care about a cpu warranty. no one.

[@eudyptes5046]

Also, the extension of the warranty is only for boxed processors.

[@RADkate]

especially since 13 and 14 will have a 100% failure rate

[@0hgre]

Don't think so few people care but with the rest you're right! Especially if you buy a high-end CPU, it should be able to last you 5-10 years without problems. Even if you upgrade, it shouldn't be electronic waste! It should work in a different case, for you or someone you give or sell it to!

[@Zenzuu]

Hey Steve, you guys say you don't recommend Intel, but why are there affiliated links to a number of Intel's cpus in the video description?

[@kafir1337]

12:42 - "As it stands, we can't and don't recommend anyone purchase an Intel 13th- or 14th-gen processor." Steve did not say he doesn't recommend any Intel CPU. Though, he does have links to 13th-gen CPUs, so clearly he is failing to discourage the purchase of these CPUs as much as he should, given how he speaks about these CPUs in this video.

[@MinosML]

Lower non-K SKUs aren't the problem, tbf

[@farmpro_farmer8737]

Me, my Wife and our kid had 3 desktop towers with Intel, Now its 3 AMD riggs and no Problems 💪😎

[@bitteroldhousecat9304]

I'm team red, and have been for 12 years. But I sincerely feel bad for my fellow enthusiasts that are team blue. What a nightmare. You can be as blue as a Smurf, and I'll always disagree with that choice, but you don't deserve this mess.

[@Chris-w2q]

Well said 😂

[@ragetist]

Yeah it's good for everyone when competition goes neck and neck, if AMD was the only viable choice they would absolutely stop pushing the limits and start milking the stagnated market. Every company with profits in mind would absolutely do this. I have an old Intel cpu but would definitely go with AMD next but my reasoning is that, being piss poor, I want a platform that has an upgrade option without having to switch the mobo every two years or so.

[@jonathanruiz8723]

Team culture for a purchase is wild . Mass marketing has truly put holes in everyone’s brains. These companies don’t care about you, people.

[@andersjjensen]

Having strong brand preference is ok. Being an insufferable triballistic fanboi is not.

[@andersjjensen]

@@jonathanruiz8723 Those of us who have been in the PC space for 30 years or more, and actually have a memory of what has transpired thus far, have our reasons. Marketing only works on noobs and plebs, as tech savvy people tend to consult multiple independent tests and aggregate them.

[@ronjatter]

I think the best thing to do... is just put it back in the box.

[@vadnegru]

Hardware…Boxed?

[@ronjatter]

Boxed and sent for RMA 😂 ​@@vadnegru

[@SausageWorship]

I'm am so relived that I went with 7800X3D from a 9700K build thanks to HU's and GN's recommendations. No headaches since then

[@rhiannon1117]

Thank you for addressing this problem. I bought an Omen 45l with a i7 14700k and it was DOA. Unit returned. I then purchased an Omen 40l with a i9 13900kf and after updating it worked for one day and then black screened. This unit returned today. I'm waiting for refunds to be issued. At a loss what prebuilt I should buy for 4k gaming. Really upset that this problem is rampant and sellers are still selling defective computers.

[@jeyendeoso]

Theres a intel statement on the extended warranty for cpus, and despite saying "all boxed 13th and 14th gen intel processors", the list of cpus that have extended warranty only have i5-K and i5-KF cpus up. The list does not include the non-K i5s and below. Intel still trying to dodge as much as they can.

[@fleurdewin7958]

To be fair though, i5-K and KF below are not true Raptor Lake CPU. Intel rebranded 12th gen Alder Lake CPU as 13th and 14th gen chips for the lower SKUs. That is why those lower spec ones have 1.25MB of L2 cache per P-core. Real Raptor Lake CPU always have 2MB of L2 per P-core.

[@OtakuByNight]

I don't think they can give batch numbers because the entire series is affected as it's a fundamental design flaw. They're gambling on golden samples and most people getting lucky or being unaware of the issues. Some will survive, others will assume other parts are the issue and upgrade to a whole new computer. The remaining few will go through the RMA process and half or more will be rejected because "reasons". There have been some reports of 12th gen being affected too and let's be honest... Intel has been mostly iterating the last few gens and have just been over clocking to stay competitive. The issue appears to be their ring bus and a new design is needed.

[@__-zm5wr]

The problem appeared even earlier with mobile versions of the raptor lake cpus. But no one talked about it.

[@fajaradi1223]

Because we are so used with laptop manufacturers shenanigans. I'll bet nobody will blame Intel, it's always Dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer, or anybody elses fault. Well, usually it was their fault.

[@streambotnt2095]

I was thinking about buying an intel cpu, but honestly, it's better I didn't. In the past year I haven't appreciated my 7600X nearly as much as it deserves. It's a lovely, stable CPU that really does it's job well.

[@brianmaglalang9409]

Thanks for being honest through out the years. Coming from one of your avid subscriber. More power Steve! Hardware Unboxed.!

[@silentKeys20]

Check again and read the description for this video. Apparently when it involves revenue it's pretty hard to stay honest.

[@TheTrumanZoo]

Intel: Never again.

[@The_Noticer.]

i would say theyve been struggling ever since they wanted to move off of 14nm, but got away with it because of AMD bulldozer. Now though..

[@amdintelxsniperx]

you know whats funny ? the 225 watt piledriver parts are still alive hahahaha even running at 1.55 volts lol

[@jayvee8502]

​@@amdintelxsniperxThey even have a better resale value than intel 13th/14th gen. This is the worst desktop CPUs ever released. Even worse than Bulldozer.

[@The_Noticer.]

@@amdintelxsniperx I wasn't dunking on the bulldozer, its just that they weren't very competitive in gaming. At that time I had the 4670K, which is still on an ITX board in my sister's PC 11 years later. I dont see many 14900K's survive 11 years, no. Especially since they cannot fix this on power, they need to limit the voltages. Because of the minecraft server issues Buildzoid talked about. Meaning, they have to limit voltage and thus peak clocks. Which would further diminish their value in both server and gaming scenario's. And then they would have to sell their large monolothic dies at a loss.

[@anistardi]

​@@The_Noticer.Intel customers happy and proud with their dying processor. Intel know that. Intel will be fine.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

🔥

[@rkalla]

Just a quick data point - Pat said on the earnings call "more than 15% by end of 2025" - not "exactly 15%" They could let go of 20k+ if needed if the stock doesn't recover

[@EmilePesky-n1v]

Is that more than 15% of staff let go? If so, you're right... The labour market is about to get a whole lot more competitive in some parts. Here in Ireland there's about 5000 employed. 1000 of them could be looking for a job soon. A lot of those people will have very, very big mortgages, like close to half a million euro for a home..and there could be another global crash by the end of the year 😢

[@syed2694]

​@@EmilePesky-n1v500k is not a very big mortgage

[@ad_fletch]

Depends on the interest rate but yeah, in some countries (eg Australia or UK) a lot of people - not just senior execs - now have mortgages twice that size 😱

[@QuantumConundrum]

found the 0.1%er

[@EmilePesky-n1v]

@@syed2694 to me it is, it's a more than a monthly wage for average people in Ireland. An average couple would both need to be working and almost all of one of their wages would be just to pay the mortgage

[@Meoknet]

Does this mean you may potentially have to re-review Zen 5 after the microcode fix, or are you expecting the numbers to not change that much?

[@DC9V]

Thanks for summing it up! Exactly What I was hoping to see.

[@0perativeX]

I've run a few stability tests recently on my Intel Core i9-14900KF and it passed every time. I think my CPU has remained in good health mainly because I learned really early on that Asus' automatic OC settings (Asus Multicore Enhancement/Let BIOS optimize settings) were bad for stability. So I always turned that feature off for my 12900KF. Then when I upgraded to the 13900KF and then to the 14900KF, I did the same thing and disabled the auto-overclocking. So far I haven't run into any BSODs or crashes etc. Even though my 14900KF is in good health, my main concern is resalability. I usually sell my current CPU after a couple of years and use that money to partially fund my next upgrade. With so much bad press following the 13th and 14th gen CPUs I worry that my 14900KF's resale value will be nuked. That said, I think it would be a neat gesture of good will, if Intel were to setup a trade-in program with their retail partners so that customers who bought a 13th or 14th gen CPU could trade them in against a new Arrow Lake CPU and get a discount towards the upgrade.

[@tomtomkowski7653]

UserBenchmark and Tom's Hardware: all is fine, move along.

[@brugj03]

Nobody`s taking those serious anymore.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

🔥

[@davide4725]

@@brugj03 People who don't know better are. UserBenchmark and Tom's are often the first results on Google.

[@drewnewby]

@tomtomkowski7653 I can't wait for Ian Cutress' spin either, let's see if he can help Intel with their "messaging" this time round.

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

Tom Pabst, the founder of Toms Hardware, sold off the company a long time ago. But I remember that he lived pretty close to the German Intel headquarters. It was mentioned when he went over there once for some new CPU introduction. He loved Intel, but to be honest the competition wasn't really that hard for most of the time. The competing processors at the time was Cyrix and AMD, and both of them make processors using the same socket as Intel so it was easy to compare the performance. Just swap the CPU using the same motherboard and see what changed. Windows wasn't even particular to the CPU so you didn't even have to reinstall it, and most games were running from DOS anyway. At the time neither AMD not Cyrix were able to match Intel performance. One of them (AMD?) even created a performance index where they compared "true" performance against Intel processors instead of comparing the frequency. Thing is AMD processors had a higher IPC than Intels so at a lower base clock they were able to perform as much work. This irritated Intel, so they went ob a big campaign proclaiming that "Frequency matters!" I remember going to a Intel meet where they kept shouting that over and over the whole time. They were preaching that we should sell processors on the frequency not the performance. Telling some one that a higher frequency was better was easy and correct, as long as you only talked about intel processors. Any talk about the performance index was to be laughed at, or explained as fake numbers that tried to hide that the AMD processors were not able to run at as high frequencies. When asked about what to say if someone mentioned the IPC difference then we were told to "explain" how the performance testing showing a difference in IPC only was done using test software not any real applications. Above all "Frequency Matters!" This was the same time Intel introduced chipsets capable of handling the PCI buss. I remember that as we were talking about how the PCI buss topped out at, I think it was 133 MB/s. Thus we were told that even with PCI but the computer would not be able to max out the then new 1GB ether net as that topped out at slightly above 100 MB/s. And with handshakes and everything the PCI buss would be a bottle neck. So that's why server chipsets handled 64-bit PCI and/or 66 MHz PCI bus instead of the standard 33MHz.

[@mavaranael]

Love the content from an Australian channel, could you start including aud pricing in your videos? Also, I can't imagine how much of a nightmare it will be to purchase Intel 13/14th gen second hand

[@TechOtakuYT]

Including Intel in your benchmarks is giving Intel free marketing and misleading unknowing potential customers, unless you make a warning/disclaimer (literally the first second) regarding the problem, cuz people will tend to skip all the talking and go directly to the benchmarks through timestamps then I cannot see this as morally the correct way to issue such a massive problem.

[@yeahitsme4427]

Your are on point! They should remove them from benchmarks. Its the correct decision, because degraded CPU will not be fixed, and o guarantees on the microcode patch as it may affect performance or just delay the instability to out of warranty periods.

[@SVT_LIGHTNING]

My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi z790 tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.

[@Samuel-ft9hq]

1 from 50%..

[@johnt.848]

Thanks Steve for not glossing this issue over or trying to blow smoke up our skirts.

[@Reyfox1]

I'm not a fan of Intel since the early 2000's with how they locked AMD out of Dell with "Incentives". Scummy move. Then there was the "+++++" updates with no real innovation. They were caught with the pants down with Ryzen Zen and had to play catch up instead of constantly moving forward distancing themselves from the competition.

[@EvilTurkeySlices]

Not to mention they paid off developers to optimize exclusively for the pentium 4.

[@andersjjensen]

@@EvilTurkeySlices Or the Intel Compiler Suite artificially nerfing AMD CPUs, which was the predominant compiler used in games. It wasn't until Microsoft Visual Studio became the de facto standard that this problem "went away".

[@3SoccerPlayer3]

Once they get it together I'm curious where they will be.

[@mickmiah7605]

I recently built myself a new PC and when planning was caught in the dichotomy Amd vs Intel. The issue that finally cut it for me was the fact that my last build was an Intel based pc which had meant that I was unable to upgrade componenets. The opposite was true with AMD indeed the AM4 platform had options every few months and teh new AM5 looked to be having a similar longevity. It was a no brainer. I now thank my lucky stars I dodged a bullet not buying Intel. I cannot see how Intel can recover from this debacle without root and branch change over there. In truth this smells of Class Action.

[@pedrolantyer]

You guys should update the description for the video. There are still affiliate links to Intel CPUs

[@felipeotavio3971]

Thanks for the recap Steve !

[@TheGreatBizarro]

Class action suit coming up. Glad I sold my Intel stock. Wonder if new chips sent out for rma replacement are going to have the same problem?

[@giglioflex]

You'd assume Intel would update the micro-code on those but then again they aren't even to pull back inventory to do so. So yeah, it's entirely possible that a replacement will still have the same issue.

[@pyro226]

1:40 Which video was thr chart pulled from? Sort of impressive. Looking at "zoomed out" ballpark performance, and it seems like down to the 4770K is acceptable performance. (arguably 6700K or 8700k depending on the lows that one is hoping for). Even the 1800x is holding on pretty well, particularly compared to newer zen releases. I get that Battlefield V scales well with cores, rather than being heavily single thread reliant, but still interesting to see the overview.

[@vadnegru]

4770k could freeze a bit in newer titles but 8700k is still are perfect for games.

[@340Hz]

I think it's from "The Evolution of CPU Gaming Performance, AMD vs. Intel".

[@pyro226]

@@340Hz yes, that was it, thanks 👍

[@jarekstorm6331]

I’m still running a 6700k with a new 3080ti in it, and can run 4k ultra on modern games just fine. My monitor is 4k 60Hz.

[@overtaxed3628]

I know a lot of people who are simply obsessed with one and the same brand such as intel, and no matter how bad intel is as a manufacturer, it still has its loyal customers. I know a guy who has an i9 13900K who even after all the possible videos about intel cpu problems still blames the motherboard !!!!!! These are incredible fans without common sense and intelligence, and this is exactly what will make intel easily get over this disastrous episode that is happening to them.

[@syed2694]

They are absolutely not getting over this easily, especially in enterprise and B2B

[@iang3902]

I got a 14900k and it wasn't even stable out of the box in cinebench. Disabling the boost clocks made it stable even though cinebench is a allcore workload. The amount of voltage they use for those boost clocks is ridiculous over 1.5v the cpu couldnt handle it. And the power consumption for the all core load hitting over 420w. I immediately undervolted it to consume 270w passed all stress tests score was actually slightly higher. Have never had a problem since but the difference between what the cpu can actually run at and what they choose to run it at is insane no wonder so many are having problems. My 13700k was same it could run at 180w vs the 320w they chose to run it at.

[@EddieGD21]

How did you disable the boost clocks? Can you be more specific? I’m trying to help a friend take steps to mitigate degradation potential on his 14900K. Thanks!

[@Shane-Phillips]

In my 20 years or so building computers, this is the most significant and possibly impactful hardware flaw that I've seen and Intel's response to it has been awful.

[@xboxbenny]

The last intel CPU I bought was a 6600k i5. Was a really decent CPU. But since they required a full platform upgrade every year you wanted to upgrade, plus needing to pay extra for a motherboard just to be able to overclock the CPUs, I switched to AMD which didn’t have these arbitrary money pits

[@mcdk72]

Last one here i7 6700k. Changed to a ryzen 5600. Nice one

[@Invid72]

Last one I bought was a Celeron 400 I overclocked to 600mhz. The only times since then I've owned an Intel chip was when I didn't have a choice (I daily drove a Mac for a while and gamed on console). AMD has always been a better value when I'm looking to upgrade, and quite frankly they're a better company. Intel's always been a sleazy outfit, from back when they paid OEMs not to use AMD chips, to the forced, but unnecessary platform upgrades to squeeze a few more dollars out of people. Now, they're gaslighting their customers about their defective chips. I've no interest in supporting them.

[@ryanj610]

I had the 8700k; it was a fast and powerful chip. Probably still adequate today, for what I do. But AMD has been leading the pack since Ryzen 5000 in performance; and longer if you consider value. No reason to be team Blue with these X3D chips shredding like they do.

[@Samuel-ft9hq]

nvidia = intel = greedy..

[@ktvx.94]

At one point I thought, maybe if Arrow and Lunar Lake knock it out of the park things would go back to normal, but they've been so shady about this whole thing that trust is broken. Who's gonna buy their hardware and risk getting screwed?

[@andersjjensen]

If Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus go "We recommend avoid buying 15th gen CPUs until they've been in the wild for at least 6 months, so we can assess the long term stability situation" the comment section is going to be lit :P

[@creeeamy7133]

I bought a 14700k about a month before this issue blew up, as I had 4 amd CPUs die but never an issue with intel. As soon as this thing shits the bed, I'm just gonna pop in a 12th gen, sell it off, and build a 7800x3d computer. The fact intel plans to do nothing aside from "try make it less suicidal" in the future is pretty despicable.

[@icecreamsandwichiify]

Not all CPU's are affected.

[@andersjjensen]

Which AMD CPUs did you have that died? The only AMD CPU I had degradation on was my K6-3 400MHz that I overclocked to 500MHz with an absurd amount of voltage. It lasted 2 years before it refused to boot at those settings, and after that it would only run 350MHz stable at any voltage. I did, however, run like that for many many years as a hand-me-down PC.

[@herbertwalter8693]

i managed to kill a 3700x with manual overclocking and no clue what i was doing. that's the only ryzen that died among relatives/friends

[@Bramble20322]

@@icecreamsandwichiify every raptor lake cpu will be affected eventually. Intel itself admitted it.

[@creeeamy7133]

@@icecreamsandwichiify Even if my CPU isn't affected, which the 14700k is one of the affected models, I'm not going to buy another CPU that may or may not fry itself from a company that blamed its partners, danced around the issue, only to not offer me any kind of proper solution unless the government decides to bring the axe down for this behaviour.

[@kennethmadsen6474]

So what was the root cause? CPU’s being pushed to the absolute limit from factory, just to keep up with the competition.

[@ndperson1]

My getting old, preferring cooler temps, and just by coincidence going amd this time, not a fanboy or exclusive, focusing on undervolting and cool quiet running apparently paid off, feel bad for others though

[@monkeypunk7177]

I don't have the energy to deal with a RMA

[@l-m]

Unfortunately, this is exactly what Intel is counting on when it refuses to launch a recall.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@monkeypunk7177 if you lack energy, try increasing voltage

[@Chris-w2q]

Just sing "lalalalalalalalalalalal I'm okay I'm fine"

[@herbertwalter8693]

look up their service time windows, chug down a red bull and get them on the phone

[@K31TH3R]

@@NJ-wb1cz Hard to blame them for lacking energy. Intel's RMA process can be very degrading.

[@upforellie]

I want to quickly help clarify for people who probably don’t know what these instability issues look like. My wife’s 13600k jitters, makes a popping noise when it freezes through headphones, and will full on crash. I’ve experienced very similar with my 14900k. I feel like people only think it’s blue screening. No it’s not. It’s general all around instability and stuttering as well

[@jedenzet]

There's literally no reason for i5's to act the way you described. My 13600KF runs like butter at 5.5GHz all core and 5.8GHz single core. Debload your system dude.

[@upforellie]

@@jedenzet good for you. I’ve done all of that in the past to no avail. It’s literally, probably, degradation as i5,i7, and i9 are all affected

[@countmorbid3187]

Now that is patriarchy at its finest! Wife 13600K while you got the 14900K 😂 JK Thanks for clarifying the symptoms.

[@mikehawk6918]

@@jedenzet You literally don't know what the the word literally means.

[@RavenZahadoom]

@@jedenzet Intel themselves have said it's all 65W and above chips. It just seems it can take different lengths of time to fail, some silicon lottery involved in how fast they seem to go on top of the higher the power the more likely to degrade sooner. You might just be one of the lucky ones, or you might be facing issues later down the line even though everything looks ok now. The server/datacentre sources say it's a matter of time and they do constant testing and monitoring of systems.

[@EraserNZ]

I had major problems with my 13700k with crashing till i manually limited the power to 253w and has stopped my crashing but wonder if it was damaged at some point. I have always used intel but after them knowing there was a problem and left it to me to figer it out over a year of crashing my next pc will be AMD cpu for the first time. They should have just admitted the issue and helped us sort it out instead of just ignoring it.

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

Pla in BIOS and keep ohms law in mind. As an experiment, lock all cores and then see how far you can go at a fixed 1.15V... then try 1.25V or so.

[@EvilTurkeySlices]

I’d undervolt it just to be safe.

[@EraserNZ]

@@michaelsoutherland3023 I appreciate the advice, i'm happy just leaving my settings alone for now as its been running great for the last 6 months after limiting the wattage and hey it still has 3 1/2 years warranty now so if it dies so be it they can replace it.

[@michaelsoutherland3023]

@@EraserNZ Just so if you do... There should be a setting in BIOS that lets you back in if the PC fails to POST 3 times or so... Can't believe I forgot to mention that part.

[@mcdk72]

It is insane power draw. Offcause they will fry. Using so much power for performance is a sign of problems.

[@zachhoy]

congrats on hitting 1M! Just noticed :D Thanks for the summary, been following GN Steve and L1T Wendell on this closely

[@wargamingrefugee9065]

Buildzoid (Actually Hardcore Overclocking) is a must watch too, IMHO.

[@SpiralOther]

crazy to make this vid and not remove the links to buy intel cpus

[@pspmaster2071]

Yeah that is quite bizarre.