Why We Need Proof

Why proof is needed to start the conversation of intelligent design.
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 28.19 for May, 12 2024 with Forrest Valkai and Secular Rarity!
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The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
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[@ApatheticFish3667]

Atheists when they find out god is real: "I guess I was wrong." Christians when they find out god isn't real: "LiFE iS oBJeCtiVeLy mEAniNgLesS!!11!1! TiMe tO bECoMe a mAsS mURdEreR!!1!11!"

[@SevenPr1me]

Yeah when a Christian asks "without God what's stopping you from raping and killing" it makes me think they're projecting

[@tonyclements1147]

Christians that ask that question, need to be watched… Albert Fish, American serial killer - Devout Christian. Herbert Mullin, American serial killer - Catholic David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam, American serial killer - raised Jewish, converted to Catholicism, is now “born again” Christian. Peter Sutcliffe, British serial killer - raised Catholic, is now Jehovah’s Witness. Ted Bundy, American serial killer - Mormon Robert Pickton, Canadian serial killer - unknown as to religious affiliation, but was known to quote biblical verses frequently. Lee Boyd Malvo, American serial killer - raised Seventh Day Adventist - later converted to Islam. John Christie, British serial killer/necrophiliac - Anglican/regular attendee. Richard Ramirez, American serial killer - Satanist. Myra Hindley, British serial killer - Catholic. Dr. Harold Shipman, British serial killer - Devout Methodist. Gary Ridgeway, American serial killer - Devout Baptist. Ed Gein, American serial killer - Lutheran. Anthony Hardy, British serial killer - thought to be Satanist solely due to the fact that a rubber Satan figure was found in his residence. His actual religious affiliation is unknown. I’m having a difficult time finding an atheist serial killer here, but I’m gonna keep looking … John Wayne Gacy, American serial killer - Catholic. John George Haigh, British serial killer - Protestant. Timothy McVeigh, American serial killer - Agnostic. Peter Tobin, Scottish serial killer - Catholic. Janie Lou Gibbs, American serial killer - Protestant. Dennis Rader, American serial killer - Lutheran. Judy Buenoano,, American serial killer - Catholic. Peter Manuel, Scottish-American serial killer - Catholic. Rodney Alcala, American serial killer/rapist - Agnostic. (Those agnostics! For shame!) John Bodkin Adams, British serial killer - Protestant. We may have a winner … finally! Edmund Kemper, American serial killer, grapist, cannibal - Not raised in any religion. Religious “awakening” pfffft while awaiting sentencing. (That’s as close as I’ve come so far … still digging …) Dean Arnold Corll, American serial killer and grapist (of young boys) - Catholic. David Copeland, British - perpetrator of 1999 London nail bombings, killing three and injuring 140 - Not “Christian” in any traditional sense, but obsessed with anti-semitic far-right Christian propaganda. Donald Henry Gaskins, American serial killer, grapist - Forced to attend church as a child/youth, but not religious. (Is that two now?) Herman Webster Mudgett aka H. H. Holmes, American serial killer - Methodist, raised by very strict and devoutly religious parents. Joel Rifkin, American serial killer - Adopted into a Jewish family, never “felt” Jewish. (Another near miss.) Albert DeSalvo (possible Boston Strangler) - not sure Aileen Wuornos, American serial killer - Atheist, but converted to evangelical Christianity.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

@@tonyclements1147 JESUS CHRIST WHERE DID YOUI FIND ALL OF THAT

[@tonyclements1147]

@@ApatheticFish3667 Quora, and a website about serial killers and religion.

[@nealjroberts4050]

That does seem to be the gist of what they claim. Not that they'd actually do that...

[@RozzieBass]

My favorite was from my partner, when I was a believer... I'd say well something created it all. They'd ask "who created the god?" I think a few seconds ... "I don't know." "Well," they say, "we have the same answer. I just get there one question sooner."

[@Apebek]

No, atheists need God to be created otherwise it does not fit their material worldview. There is no creationist who ever claimed God was created. It is the other way around. Ask yourself: what is the cause of al other causes from a material perspective. It makes even less sense then infinity and eternity. I guess you fell into the trap of material scientism. An ideology is what it is.

[@spliter88]

@@Apebek The answer you can give for god is the same answer you can give to anything else as being the origin of the universe. A god is unnecessary to explain anything. We have better explanations without invoking something no one has ever seen, and something that doesn't have any detectable effect on this universe.

[@69eddieD]

@@Apebek Bullshit.

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

People who believe in God believe God is eternal good just like mass and energy are eternal in one form or people who believe in God believe God is eternal . I don't understand the logic from people like Richard Dawkins and people who call him brilliant who believe everything came from nothingness. No air no space nothingness as if it just magically appeared. Which of course is an opposition of the law of thermodynamics that mass and energy cannot be created or destroyed. If you believe mankind isn't the result of an intelligent design then you believe everything Man created isn't the final result of intelligent design. You believe a BMW is the final result of a non intelligent occurrence.

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

​@@spliter88prove that God is unnecessary. Prove the supernatural prove the origins of Life came into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence. The natural process as we know it is life comes from life, Life comes from an intelligent source. If you're claiming God is unnecessary you're claiming that the origins of Life came into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence so let's say you prove the supernatural let's hear your argument. Unless you're making a different claim to the supernatural that life always existed, that would also be a claim to the supernatural so whichever one you believe please prove. I bet you don't even believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation without God and will provide evidence to why you believe that , let alone provide proof to your claim to knowledge that God isn't necessary.

[@jeff6660]

Kevin presents the argument from personal incredulity for the umteenth time.

[@kevinkoch-jj1uj]

In defense of other Kevins, this one is on idiot.

[@Fletchlie]

​@@kevinkoch-jj1uj😂

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

If only the host of atheist experience actually believe the origins of Life came into existence without God maybe there could be a good debate. But like most atheists they don't believe the origins of Life came into existence without God. Or at least I haven't heard any of them claim that and if they did I'm sure they didn't provide evidence to why they believe that How about yourself do you believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation without God? If so please provide evidence to why you believe that. And if I'm not convinced in return I will provide evidence to why I believe in God and we will see which one is more logical But if you're not an atheist if you don't have a bias you should have no problem admitting to me that you don't believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation without God if that's your position. You would only avoid saying that if you have a bias

[@michaelmay5453]

I don't need proof, I'm not a mathematician. I need evidence.

[@peterbartley7183]

I agree people are so clumsy with there choice of words.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

​@peterbartley7183 is that sarcasm or irony?

[@Csfuser]

@@AbsurdlyGeekyit appears to be the thing people generally refer to as “humor”

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

@@Csfuser sarcasm then, innit?

[@persephoneharrison3439]

I am a passionate follower of Jesus Christ. The evidence is historical in nature that Jesus lived a sinless life talk, amazing, ethical teachings like the sermon on the mount. He died forgiving his enemies, and he rose from the dead three days later. I put my faith in him, and I’m a beggar who has found where living bread is in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and I’ve come to tell fellow beggars where they can find living bread also in there personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

[@suedehead3]

I like this combo. Both guys are great and bring different strengths. Nice balance

[@nealjroberts4050]

The usual debunked arguments: Fine tuning - no constants have been demonstrated to be tuned. Anthropic/puddle reasoning (distinct from FTA) - relies on assuming that things are noticeably existent because they were intended to be rather than because they exist and were noticed. KCA - relies on special pleading a particular something from nothing Contingency - relies on special pleading that contingency exists Design - relies on comparing known human design with known lack of design then assuming everything unknown is designed. Irreducible Complexity - still not demonstrated to exist Objective Moral Values - still not demonstrated ontologically

[@RED5standing-by]

We have evidence of car factories and laborers. We don’t have evidence of a galactic factory or galactic manufacturer.

[@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr]

We have evidence of car manufacturers and laborers and to make these cars it requires intelligent design There's no cars popping into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.

[@nmappraiser9926]

The argument from design completely fails to see any difference between natural and manmade things. It's so silly, my kids could do that when they were three years old.

[@ericwilliams1659]

Magrathea

[@spankflaps1365]

Imagine the giant space cranes God would have needed to build planets. Also he would have needed someone to hold the ladder, fetch the tea, etc.

[@arthurunknown8972]

We actually have evidence how galaxies come into existence. And, none of it is "god(s)."

[@krillin6]

God of the gaps

[@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr]

Non intelligent occurrence of the gaps.

[@amtlpaul]

​@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jrYour comment is, yes.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

​@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr lol wut

[@Dreamline78]

God must be on an accelerated weight-loss program, because creationists seem to squeeze him into progressively smaller and smaller gaps.

[@riccardozanoni2531]

@@Dreamline78 this is proof that god is indeed a cat

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

All I can say is that if human anatomy was designed, it was designed by a very unintelligent designer, who not only thought it was neat to turn a spine originally functioning as a suspension rod as a vertical column, but that running a sewage disposal system through a recreational area made sense.

[@5-Volt]

So I don't actually believe what I'm about to defend but there's a decent steelman argument against this idea. To say we have any "flaw" is our subjective opinion. What if our waste disposal was somewhere else? Would we still have "flaws"? Yes. What if those other "flaws" were fixed. You'd just keep moving the goal post until we were perfect. Whatever perfection even is, and I severely doubt everyone has the same idea of perfection.

[@michaelmay5453]

How about designing the testicles in such a way that they don't do well at body temperature? WHY would you do that? I mean, WHY?

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

Let's not forget the "Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve" that goes from the bottom of the skull, down into in the chest, loops under the aorta, then goes back up the neck to enervate the larynx. Being that this is present in EVERY tetrapod, it means that in some dinosaurs, it would have been over 50 feet long, for an ultimate journey of 1 foot. It's up to 15 feet long in giraffes. Great design!

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

Or our retina, which is installed BACKWARDS with the wiring in front, the sensor facing away from the light, and a giant hole in the sensor to plumb the wiring through. Yikes!

[@chrisdraughn5941]

@@michaelmay5453 I’d like to file a complaint about my urinary track running through my prostate gland. Lots of shoddy craftsmanship in the old recreation zone.

[@roberthunter6927]

Darwin and Wallace figured this out WAY back in 1858, and in 2024 people still refuse to take the effort to learn it. Humans, ergo chairs or cars is not an extra-ordinary claim. We know there are chairs, and people, and folks can make chairs and cars. But "Trees, ergo God??" You have to demonstrate the mechanism, the driver, first. In other words, it is a causality violation. And this mind-set of life and nature being top-down, with purpose, intent, design, is just crap, it really is. Complex properties arise out of simple ones. In other words, it is "bottom-up".

[@badatheist9948]

all of this really is just another watchmaker argument

[@pneumike1]

We see the FORMATION of natural things, not creation or intelligent design.

[@t800fantasm2]

That's a good point....

[@petyrkowalski9887]

And evolution and adaptation through natural processes.

[@conspiracy1914]

when do we see formation?

[@pneumike1]

​@@conspiracy1914​when you see diploid cells become a haploid cell that then forms into a living organism, for one example.

[@conspiracy1914]

@@pneumike1 cells are living things.

[@inkysteve]

Ironically my car was broken this morning and it was dinosaurs. I didn't see them, or it, but as soon as you mentioned them, it came to me as the only viable option. Thanks for helping me sort that out, now I can tell the insurance company. I didn't know how to explain the giant footprint.

[@rboland2173]

"At Farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two!" 😃

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

Ironically my car was broken into this morning I believe it was a dinosaur. The dinosaur is my ancestor and my car popped into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence. Thanks for helping me sort that out.

[@Apollorion]

All the dinosaurs known to exist today are birds, so don't have giant footprints, but their shit(s) could break your car.

[@inkysteve]

@Apollorion You obviously haven't seen the birds around here. They're fucking massive. Only last week one of them ate a cow that was in a field that I was picking magic mushrooms in.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

The hallmark of design is actually simplicity. We know how and by whom manufactured items are made. We also know and have masses of evidence for how stars, planets and solar systems etc are formed and we know how evolution works etc. We can also see all kinds of « design flaws » like the bizarrely routed larangeal nerve in the necks of giraffes, congenital diseases and many other things that an omnipotent, perfect « designer » would not have done and that we can show formed naturally.

[@justinmiller947]

That is just an argument from incredulity. You think these are design flaws, but that is not actually evidence for or against a designer, and you haven't actually demonstrated these are design flaws making the argument moot. Dawkins and others used to make the same claim about the appendix but that just turned out to be lack of knowledge on their part not bad design.

[@BrianFedirko]

when an animal sees a car, it doesn't ask any of these stupid questions. It just exists in front of it, and it doesn't matter "what made it". Why would anybody think this is a proof of god? that somebody made a leaf or a watch or?? It has nothing to do with proof of god, it doesn't even suggest anything about god. God is an imaginary friend, that only exists in silly humans heads. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

The caller's Lexus was assembled from pre-exiting material, just like Ray Comfort's "paintings needs a painter, buildings need a builder." Creation ex-nihilo only happens in myths.

[@PomPom123Boo]

Some dictionary definitions for Andy Smith, Nepy, Lamebot and the other theists who don't seem to get the difference between evolution and abiogenesis: *_evolution;_*_ the process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth._ *_abiogenesis;_*_ the origin of life from non-living matter_ _specifically: a theory in the evolution of early life on earth: organic molecules and subsequent simple life forms first originated from inorganic substances._

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

The earliest detailed elaboration of the argument from design (so far as I'm aware) - as opposed to evolution - was penned by WIlliam Paley in his 1802 treatise, _Natural Theology._ Darwin didn't publish till almost 60 years later, so he would have been well aware of Paley's opinions. Paley proposed that if you came across a watch in the boondocks, you would have to conclude that it had had a designer and maker, rather than it having grown there by itself, or being a natural object. One problem with this that I can see, is that Paley was a 19th century Englishman, thoroughly familiar with watches and machines of all sorts, and how they come into existence. Had he been a primitive Stone Age human still banging flints together to make sharp edges, I am not at all sure he'd have come to the same conclusion. He'd certainly note that it was different from the other rocks and plants around it, but would he consider it an artefact more closely related to his rock banging than anything else? I'm not so sure.

[@nealjroberts4050]

If I recall correctly there would have been a question about this on Darwin's university entrance exam. The theologians of his time were well aware of the problems with the Watchmaker Argument and expected others to address the flaws

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@@nealjroberts4050 Interesting point - Darwin attended the medical school at Edinburgh University (my alma mater, though I think it was a bit different in Darwin's day!). Theologians have been trying for generations to come up with extra-biblical (or external to whichever scripture one subscribes to) arguments to substantiate their beliefs and justify them on an objective basis (e.g. Aristotle's prime mover, the Kalam cosmological argument, etc.), but I just don't think it's worked very soundly or effectively. If it had, we wouldn't still be arguing about it!

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@Leszek.Rzepecki They've all got logical flaws or internal inconsistencies from what I've seen. Most people who use them as arguments try to hide those and thus discredit themselves.

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@@nealjroberts4050 I definitely agree - it may be a question we won't figure out an answer to that will satisfy everyone. It's why I classify myself as an agnostic but anti-theist atheist. ;)

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@Leszek.Rzepecki No worries. I'm an agnostic pantheist myself. But very much against big R Religion.

[@williamskinner]

Word of the day = Gullible Word for tomorrow = Gullibility Question for the next day = Is there such a thing as Gullibility of a mustard seed

[@artk6177]

Forrest and SR are awesome. My first time seeing you two. Very impressed. I love how respectful you both were to the caller without feigning respect to a god or religion. Great job.

[@donaldcook2484]

Love Forrest and his analogies and honesty!

[@watauguy]

Forrest and SR are a great team on AXP.

[@Tessilla-ie4pn]

Big hugs I love when people say I don't know maybe we will call find out, and not just "god" did it so we have to wait for him to fix it.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!* "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9 "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@jaflenbond7854 Romadur Jeffrey?

[@roysmallian2889]

Got'ta love Forrest's intelligence and gift for gab. I often wish when I occasionally travel I would run into him so that I could congratulate him personally. I once noticed.Girard Depardeau shopping while presumably doing a movie in my city. I felt the need to be respectful and not impose my recognition on him. However, he was very gracious by nodding discreetly as if to say, I see that you recognize me, thank you. No one else in the store seemed to notice who he was.

[@amtlpaul]

I dont need proof that claims about a God are true unless the goal is to have me believe those claims. For that to happen, I will need proof.

[@skiphoffenflaven8004]

This is 100% correct logic. And it is the willfully made decision by far too many that they will proceed against it that is behind the societal rift religious thought produces. But those deciders would simply call it hope or faith.

[@5-Volt]

I wish all Atheists thought like that but there are several that claim that things don't exist until proven. Which is completely illogical.

[@kalebetheridge5905]

People have been asking for proof of God for thousands of years. You won’t get it with the mindset you have, will you be asking for proof when your old and about to die and can barely use your senses to verify any kind of proof? To come to these videos everyday and say “I don’t believe in God I need proof” is so lazy. Go find the proof. It’s there.

[@amtlpaul]

@@5-Volt Are there? I don't know of them. Some may say that they are of the opinion that certain things don't exist, but evidence could change their minds.

[@amtlpaul]

@kalebetheridge5905 I'm not asking you for proof because I don't believe you have any.

[@BrianFedirko]

He said going from 1-10? nope, it's from zero to ten. the theist is starting with absolute zero. no evidence at all, nada, zero, zip. Everything Christians claim, is all about "feelings". We all admit we have feelings, and I know I've had more extreme feelings about this stuff than I've heard any chrsitian I've ever heard describe. I've got feelings,, and I know, with the highest amount of feeling that it doesn't point to god. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love

[@raulcheva]

Cars and machines don't "reproduce" by themselves. So the analogy with cosmical builders is failed or very poor.

[@Gal85gal]

Yet. We have developed self assembly we know Turing complete machines exist. We may not be there yet but we're getting there.

[@riccardozanoni2531]

@@Gal85gal a turing complete machine is just a computational model that could theoretically be used to solve any problem that admits a solution. It has very little to do with machines self-replicating😅 and we do have plenty of them, by the way. Most coding languages are turing complete, and many videogames too, funnily enough. Minecraft included.

[@Gal85gal]

@@riccardozanoni2531 exactly so we know for a fact that self replicating systems and systems that can solve any problem exist.

[@riccardozanoni2531]

@@Gal85gal no. what we know is that there are models that have within them a definition for any tool/method that might be needed to solve any solvable problem. That doesn't necessarily mean that every problem has a solution, in fact there's many example of unsolvable problems, meaning problems that can not have a single univocal solution. (think about the famous three body problem.) But again, this is super interesting but unrelated to the original similitude, which makes little to no sense.

[@Earthling247]

Anyone reading a bible will clearly see that satan is the hero in that story

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​@@jaflenbond7854go buy a Bible and read it, McDerp.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

Amen.

[@jojobizarrelivingstone594]

I'd probably call him an anti-villain or anti hero idk its not like he isn't completely innocent.

[@chongeiktong3426]

True. A satanic god. Flooding the earth. Killing the first born. A godly Satan. Defying evil deeds.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

The folks at Marvel and DC Comics are epic storytellers on par with the authors of the Bible.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Since Dingleberry likes to call me a liar, I'd like him to demonstrate a specific time I lied. Lie: To make an untrue statement with intent to deceive (Merriam-Webster)

[@Earthling247]

What are you talking about?

[@ApatheticFish3667]

@@Earthling247 Dingleberry (Jim Castleberry) is a troll in the comments section.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​@@Earthling247 many of us actually call him "cLied" based upon one of his 60+ previous account names. His real name is actually Daniel, a SEVERE disappointment to his VERY successful father, which might have something to do with his name appearing on a "Register" (you know the one) in Oklahoma.

[@Beacon80]

He projects so much, he should work in a movie theater.

[@t800fantasm2]

"Since Dingleberry likes to call me a liar," Yeah, he's called me a liar over and over and runs away when I insist he prove it... He just runs away and pretends I never called him out... Then he denies lying, and I prove he does, and he runs away and pretends I never showed proof... We need to be holding him to account for his crap....

[@sanjeevgig8918]

Anything is possible in a magical world. Angels, Demons, Spirits, Witches, Dirt into man, rib into woman, talking snakes, talking donkeys, teenager getting pregnant without sex, water into wine, man bodily rising to the sky. NO. Evidence. Needed. LOLZ

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

Feeding 5,000 people with a glorified fish sandwich is a good'un too, lol. And how about rounding up two of literally every species in the World and fitting them all on one boat? Classic stuff 😂

[@tonyclements1147]

Who knew the ark was a TARDIS? 😁

[@stephenolan5539]

Which makes them all equally valid.

[@user-zu2zo8ji4n]

​@@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr Those magical, primordial, single -celled ancestors of yours ____now THAT is pure comedy. They must have existed eternally or willed themselves into existence for people of your persuasion? Then,they realized that they had to start evolving into ALL lifeforms, huh my friend? You surely don't believe in god. But your option is definitely supernatural!

[@SundaeExpress]

@@user-zu2zo8ji4n So where did all the new species come from, genius? Elephants, zebras, kangaroos, giraffes, dogs...? I'll wait.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

FYI: "D-I-V-A" is the acronym: Divine, Inspirational, Virtuous, Anointed. Ego much? 🤦

[@-D-I-V-A-]

*DIVA* is about to get the Most Views for Queue Cee's videos! *REPENT OR U WILL PERISH!!*

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

@@-D-I-V-A- bow down to Voldemort or "YOU WILL PERISH" 🤦

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

​@@-D-I-V-A- still 👍 yourself, I see. Needy much?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@-D-I-V-A- 👈👈👈 Nobody believes this dishonest hypocrite.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@-D-I-V-A-everyone dies, your wishful thinking won't change that

[@somersetcace1]

To imply humans are some perfect design of a perfect being, is pretty absurd. I can buy a digital camera for $20 that works better than my eyes do. Beyond that, ID starts with an answer and goes looking for evidence in nature. It's not really surprising coming from that position, that patterns and processes in nature that we observe, is then considered evidence of the conclusion they started with. In the end, you could sum ID up by saying "If existence were not what it is, it would be different." Gee, mind blowing.

[@Moriningland]

Exactly. If our design is so perfect, why are some people practically blind without glasses?

[@RichLunaMusic]

People still use digital cameras?

[@somersetcace1]

@@RichLunaMusic Usually it's on their phone, but yeah, they do.

[@faneres4841]

@@RichLunaMusic are you walking around with rolls of film in your pocket again?

[@RichLunaMusic]

Christians be like: We don't need to know how anything works. We just believe in God and put our faith that he MIGHT show us someday if that's ever even important.

[@Robert-lb8jt]

Been looking for (gAWED) for over 76yrs. ( i wasn't a good child according to my pentecostal family ) I hear you get smarter as you age. 💯 there is no gAWED. None nada zip. If you waste one minute of your time on all this mumbo-jumbo. You've wasted one minute.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Everything humans create comes from pre existing parts. So without special pleading, where did god get the parts to create the universe?

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@jaflenbond7854anamaniac's?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!* "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9 "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@jaflenbond7854Ghost in the shell?

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@jaflenbond7854 Macropodidae😇

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!* "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9 "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16

[@marioe.rivera6013]

0:11 Love when Forrest acts like that 😂

[@DreadEnder]

I saw a video today about a racist woman complaining that a white couple adopted two black kids and I love what the father said. They said, “I’m not raising black children. I’m raising children.” Goes perfectly with one of my favourite quotes from Forrest; “I was raised to believe that race is a very real thing but we shouldn’t be talking about it. But the exact opposite is true. Race is not real. Racism is real and needs to be talked about, but race is completely made up.” (I can’t remember the original quote but I’ll come back when I find it.)

[@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr]

I don't know how you can say race isn't real but before you said race isn't real you were talking about how white people adopted black children. We have different races but equal humanity no matter what the atheistic humanist talmud teaches

[@tentalagim]

​@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr Found the racist!

[@nmappraiser9926]

@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr Skin color is real. Melanin is real. Body types and facial features are real. Ancestry is real. But race is a thing we invented to describe people based on combinations of attributes and ancestry. Race is only useful to the extent that people from Lisbon never mixed with people from Gstaad or from Seoul. Modern genetics, however, make it plain that people have been mixing and combining and isolating and migrating and recombining throughout, and before, human history. So while we can generally say we understand what is meant when someone is described as "Asian" or "African" in their ancestry, the truth is life is way too complex to describe any human with a single adjective that names their "race."

[@DreadEnder]

@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr first off, how the hell do you think that atheists, you know, people who don’t believe in any religion, are Jewish? How does that make any sense??? Also race is objectively nonsense. No one can properly define it, there is no physical or biological link or separation for race and even when computer simulations of race are made it doesn’t work. So please tell me what you think race is and how it is real. Because you are objectively wrong.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

Reminds me of the story where a girl said "Daddy, look! My twin!" because a black girl was wearing the same dress.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Jeffrey is an absolute narcissist. Imagine liking all your own comments.

[@Jebus_Anti-theist]

I feel like a sucker for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Just like Florida, they seem reasonable in person.

[@arifsaleem5467]

They say everything looks designed, therefore it's designed, therefore a designer. Question is, what would be the state of things that wouldn't look designed?

[@kalebetheridge5905]

That’s hard to say because even an atom is designed in every piece to give an object its features. What they are doing at CERN in the large hadron collider could be considered undesigned because they are smashing atoms and making them chaotic and out of place. It’s modern day witchcraft.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​@@kalebetheridge5905 some are "designed"? Prove it.

[@tonyclements1147]

@@kalebetheridge5905 “It’s modern day witchcraft.” 🤦‍♂️

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

Maybe a better question: What would humans look like if they were truly intelligently designed?

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@kalebetheridge5905 Once again you're assuming design not demonstrating it

[@metalrocker627]

We need proof and evidence because most people live by Sight, and not by Faith.

[@tonydarcy1606]

SR at last seems to be keeping his word count down ! Bravo !

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Don't be an asshole.

[@thomasreedy4751]

Why do you need to say yes or no? If a divine designer exists, what does it add to the conversation? If a god created us in a Petri dish, that doesn’t mean god is Allah or Jesus Christ or Gitchmanadoo. Why rely on an improbable explanation when that explanation doesn’t move the conversation any further. And if something has to create us, why doesn’t something need to create our creator?

[@Seticzech]

@@jaflenbond7854 blabla from insane mind

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@jaflenbond7854 Weißlacker Jeffery?

[@69eddieD]

@@Seticzech Why does Jaffles get to post his hate screed over and over, while my comments are summarily deleted?

[@SevenPr1me]

​@@jaflenbond7854you're not even talking to anyone like a human being. You're just pushing an agenda

[@Seticzech]

@@69eddieD Because YT sucks. Like really sucks.

[@ZenWithKen]

What else could be the reason we're here but a disembodied mind outside of the universe and time. That seems like the best option. Yeah. Have you looked at the trees?

[@rmbry9260]

Still the same debunked argument. I guess you only dream but not listen or read!!.. you can't just say "I don't know" but insert god!.. like old time all type of gods was doing under or hurricane or thus and that and ppl didn't say "I don't know " just said gods.. now we know

[@niceguy191]

Yeah, but when you see a watch on a beach it stands out from the rest of the beach because it's designed. This is proof the beach is also designed

[@ZenWithKen]

@@niceguy191 That is true, I've never seen a natural occurring beach. To even think that seems silly.

[@nealjroberts4050]

This is indeed how the argument of design works!

[@captaingrub2228]

I would’ve liked it if they had addressed more specifically examples of how we often get the illusion of design. I feel that’s the strongest retort to the caller’s concern - they did touch on it.

[@MAC_Productions]

That was honestly pretty chill

[@Fletchlie]

Chilled

[@MAC_Productions]

Now I want Chili’s

[@SundaeExpress]

@@Fletchlie Actually, 'chill' as an adjective is pretty trendy among kids now. I know because I'm hip to the groove, Daddio.

[@russellh9894]

14:45 is a great point. The caller says "I have billions of example of creators, so that's evidence that the universe likely has one, too". But Forrest makes a good point that we have billions of examples of naturalistic explanations for things and none for a supernatural explanation. So if the caller continues to use his logic, he would conclude the universe has a naturalistic creator.

[@quentind1924]

"I have billions of example of pink things, so that’s evidence that the universe likely is pink too" That’s the big problem for that argument : it can be used to prove false things

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

We either have billions of examples of desgined things and billions of billions of examples of undesigned things, or we only have examples of designed things. In either case, we only have one universe to examine. If some things are undesigned, it seems incredibly likely the universe is not. If our universe is designed, we'd have no way to know. The argument fails on its face.

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@AbsurdlyGeeky Yep, if you're comparing a rock with a watch you can't claim the difference proves they're the same.

[@cesariglesias297]

So who design those rocks again?

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

@@cesariglesias297 either no one did, or we would never have any means of knowing. (In all likelihood, rocks are not designed)

[@saveusmilkboy]

Proof is for math, law, logic and moonshine, honey! I want me some yummy, appropriate evidence.

[@richardsuplee8137]

The main thing that seems so hard for anyone to grasp is that there is a difference between artifically created things and natural things. We have seen someone make a car. We havent seen someone make a universe. And whike we also didbt see the big bang, we have evidnece of the big bang that doesnt require for there to be just some guy there pressing the button. Sure thats possible but without evidencence im going say no and knowing a car has a creator doesnt do anything.

[@iitywybmad29]

You cannot compare the natural order of the universe with man made objects.

[@kalebetheridge5905]

Yeah, the natural world is much more complex. Beyond our comprehension. Showing there absolutely had to be someone make it. Nothing comes together on its own, we observe this. It takes a mind to create anything.

[@69eddieD]

@@kalebetheridge5905 So it makes a mind to make a snowflake? I beg to differ.

[@casebrunson6065]

​@@kalebetheridge5905 What exactly do you mean by create?

[@iitywybmad29]

@@kalebetheridge5905 Yes the natural order of the universe is beyond your comprehension. No gods needed. Not the Hindu creator Brahma, not the Zoroastrian creator Ahura Mazda or any other ancient superstition.

[@cammybaby01]

​@@kalebetheridge5905faulty reasoning. If what you say is true, then that someone would have to be infinitely more complex, therefore have that much more need of a creator itself. If this is not the case, then you are engaged in special pleading, which is a logical fallacy, and any argument based on a logical fallacy can automatically be discarded because logical fallacies cannot be used to prove anything.

[@barbiedahl]

Beavers are the intelligent designers of dams. Is god a beaver?

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

Well, he seems to like damning people, so you might be on to something there!

[@SundaeExpress]

@@-D-I-V-A- Passages that show how much God really ‘loves’ us 🤮 1 Thessalonians 5: 1-4 Deuteronomy 23: 1-2 Ephesians 6: 5 Exodus 12: 29 Exodus 21: 7 Genesis 6: 17 Luke 14: 26 Matthew 5: 22 Matthew 10: 34-36 Numbers 4: 27 Numbers 31: 1-54 Proverbs 13: 24 Psalms 137: 9 Titus 2: 9

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

@@-D-I-V-A- Sin and evil? Wow, what exactly are you accusing me of now, you nasty arrogant prick?

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

@@-D-I-V-A- "You've already Condemned yourself to Eternal Hellfire! Oh ok. Thanks, buddy 🙄

[@Marconius6]

If you knew nothing about religion but everything about science today... would you conclude that there must be some really powerful guy out there behind everything? Or would you just presume there's a natural cause behind even the things you don't know the cause of? Actually you don't even need the hypothetical: in practice, in life, if there is something you don't know the cause of, do you assume it was a god or a demon, or just something natural you don't understand? And if it is the latter, why is the beginning the universe the ONLY thing you make an exception for?

[@juliocorrea2552]

If u accept that a being would have had to create the universe then you have to ask what created the being, you don’t get to stop at the being.

[@user-zu2zo8ji4n]

Similar question: Who created those so-called single -celled,evolving predecessors of ALL LIFEFORMS? Your position is NOT any better than theists'. So you reject the claim of a creator because bias is one hell of a blinder ,my friend!

[@juliocorrea2552]

@@user-zu2zo8ji4n I never stated a position my friend, I simply exposed the flaw of the “necessary creator” position. You’re arguing a straw man. I don’t require an explanation for the creation of the universe, I’m ok saying I don’t know. 🤷‍♂️

[@user-zu2zo8ji4n]

@@juliocorrea2552 Hey, whatever works for you!

[@jermainerucker2027]

I just want them to ask these people What if you were on a plane and a pilot popped out of the cockpit and was like: Hey guys I’ve never flown a plane before. I’ve had no training and I’ve never been in a cock out before But I have “faith” that I can fly this plane” How many of these theist would still be on the plane I’m guessing the reason theist believe so strongly without evidence Is because they’re selfish they believe they chose correctly and that their spot in heaven is guaranteed So they don’t need to know or worry It’s like making reservations or having a Disneyland fast past No need to worry You’ll just show up when it’s your turn And you’ll get in line or take a seat

[@-D-I-V-A-]

But you think God is fake right? So why do you care so much if other people believe in Jesus Christ? They don't have to truly become an Atheist if they will just end up in the Fertilizer Pit just like you! So just let them simply believe in God! Right? Why do care if it's fake? Just let people believe whatever they choose! SEEMS FAIR?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@-D-I-V-A- Tell us again why you believe that it is *ABSOLUTELY MORAL* to slaughter children to punish their parents, jeffrey.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@-D-I-V-A- For feck sake, bloody learn how to format your post so they are fecking readable.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@holgerlubotzki3469 Have you listened to Queue Cee newest live show?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 No mate. I'm a little bit time poor lately.

[@Marc010]

Can I prove Zeus doesn't still run the planet and the Christian God is his slave?

[@jexelbur6872]

Both are false because Kratos killed them.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

And they all report up to the mighty flying spaghetti monster.

[@iv9116]

17:00 if there is no god, you could explain why it'd not be possible for the kid to reach top levels without training or doing sports. If there is a god the kid could just pray to a god and the God could make him a pro. The god argument makes no sense.

[@latinzane]

Couldn't find youtube videos on the Big Bang and evolution?

[@SquidwardQSagan]

Do those who begin with this premise also believe that weather is designed? Because we know it isn’t. The weather happens for material reasons.

[@smochygrice465]

Because otherwise Gods proniun would be *IT* Obviously someone seen Gods penis for the pronouns he/him to become cannon. My question is: what does a universe creating God need with a penis? And a good Tuesday Morning 🌞 AXP, Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 💪🤠☝️

[@jayrose8638]

I always go with it. If it prefers a didn’t pronoun it can tell me.

[@nmappraiser9926]

Hey, my penis was made in the image of God's penis! Except for like this little weird part that God hated so he said they had to cut it off.

[@quentind1924]

I could argue that god didn’t show any signs that using the pronons "he/him" was a problem. Same for "she/her" but nobody uses those for god

[@5-Volt]

Woah, woah, woah. Don't trigger the gender ideologues here at Axp that would claim that a penis doesn't automatically mean he/him.

[@smochygrice465]

​@@5-VoltI think it might give atheists like myself a little giggle, while theists are triggered that God doesn't actually have a penis, but still continue to use the pronouns he/him. And like the idea that they have two fathers 😊 One biological, and one heavenly. Peace ✌️

[@graemerose1616]

Meanwhike people follow Shamanism, and there is an undisputed burial of a Shaman from about 28000 BCE, that is well before god created the earth...

[@chainclaw07]

I mean if you want to believe based on uncertainty, that's your prerogative... but don't expect ANYONE to agree with your decisions made by those fallacious arguments...

[@feedingravens]

According to Kent Hovind et al. all life was created in one day. That means that God assembled trillion trillions of atoms in to complete, functioning plants and animalss. All consisting of cells, all built in a way that each single DNA molecule in each cell is OK (or you get cancer), that the animal are gentically compatible for their kind, but not for the other kinds. Animals that are higher developed and are social must be created in different ages, the olders with implanted memories how to behave that they can pass on to the young ones. That is all SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy... Instead of having processes that have DEVELOPED the "mechanics" of how to implement all that incrementally. Troulble is that it is obvious that this development has no GOAL, but it simply going where the conditions leads it. And that is a killer argument for Christians. In the CENTER of everything is that THEY are SPECIAL, made in God's image, the whole universe was created ONLY for them. the omnipotent entity is interested ONLY in them and nothing else in the universe.

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

Plus where did he get all those atoms from?

[@billirwin3558]

The underpants gnomes are real man. Don't take my word for it, just ask the underpants gnomes themselves. They live at 32 Circular Argument Drive.

[@101stub]

So are sock fairies, they steal socks from washing machines and dryers, and they live just next door to them!

[@nealjroberts4050]

The underpants gnomes merely bring them, it's the fairies who take them

[@DreamcastLoL]

The believers always go to things like cars or chairs or something a human can make. They never go to animals or trees or anything that humans don't make. I think Kevin was talking about the First Cause argument and even after hearing him talk, I don't understand why that argument is good enough.

[@t800fantasm2]

"The believers always go to things" They never point to sh*t, tapeworms, parasites, cancer, diseases and such either....

[@DreamcastLoL]

@@t800fantasm2 Spot on! It's only the good things that can be from god, never giving kids cancer for no reason.

[@michaelfloriani9460]

The premise kinda falls apart because there’s not ‘one’ person that designs and manufactures cars. Ideas as old as the wheel allowed the conditions for cars to exist. that is to say, everything is subjective to their conditions and not objectively independent from them. The logical conclusion of that is singularity, which is why the Big Bang makes intuitive sense.

[@swedendive]

Intelligent designer? That make planet with earthquakes?

[@-D-I-V-A-]

If you'd EVER read The Bible, God explains this in Genesis!

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@-D-I-V-A- I've read the bible. So tell me why you choose to worship the one that slaughtered children to punish the parents and arranged for human sacrifice. Oh.. I forgot. You are dishonest and will pretend you didn't read this post.

[@-D-I-V-A-]

​@@holgerlubotzki3469 So do you vote for and support Legal Ab0rti0n in this Country?

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

​@@-D-I-V-A-and all of a sudden you ARE an Bible expert, but when evidence that the Bible is false is presented, you are suddenly oblivious.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

​@@-D-I-V-A-your Bible supports abortion.

[@terrywright9765]

The whole designer argument is so lame I am surprised you two don't puke every time you hear it. Arguing analogies is so low brow.

[@AndySmith4501]

Could you do me a huge favor and show me the demonstrable verifiable testable evidence that organic life emerged out of non living inanimate materials. Thanks so much 👍

[@terrywright9765]

@@AndySmith4501 ask a biologist. I would suggest the one in this video. He has literally hundreds of videos on KZbin. But seeing how he gives a decent, albeit somewhat undetailed explanation in this video which you choose to ignore, I doubt you will educate yourself. Talking about painters and clockmakers is plenty deep enough for you to understand Biology and Abiogenesis.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@AndySmith4501lol you want a detailed explanation when all you've got is goddidit 😂😂😂😂😂

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@AndySmith4501 Is the physiochemical basis of life not enough?

[@AndySmith4501]

@@terrywright9765 I'm asking you. Ok the fact is that abiogenesis has never been achieved. We believe it based on faith rather than any demonstrable observable evidence. If you were honest you'd admit it remains a mystery but you aren't and if you're a biologist, my name's Ronald Reagan

[@nati0598]

I think the best way to encapsulate caller's question would be - "Why is lack of reason a good reason to not believe". Which I think should be answered a bit differently. Also I see a bit of "I know that the data doesn't point there, but I still have lots of data".

[@FearlessNimue]

Weekly Prompt: I always respond by saying i dont say it in my heart but in my mind.

[@joseyglesias3743]

Forrest, my fav twinkey toes. What is a woman? 😊

[@SundaeExpress]

May I ask where your homophobic hatred comes from? And are you a racist too or is it just gay people that trigger you?

[@Hampton_Doubleday_Jr]

Aww, bless - the homophobic bigot tried to spell 'twinkle' 😊

[@summerlovinxx]

a woman is what runs away from you in disgust :3 hope that helps!

[@AXKfUN9m]

@@summerlovinxx Do you know how much that narrows it down!!!???

[@joseyglesias3743]

@@summerlovinxx cheap jokes to hide the trueth. 😀

[@jsar5409]

Dawkins design vs designoid talk is great for this

[@tonyd3927]

Like everyone I was born an Atheist unlike most I remained an Atheist till the modern day. All I have to say is it is almost impossible to prove the non existence of something whether it be a god or ghosts all we actually prove is we neither have the knowledge or technology to prove the existence but what we can do is chip away at the myths as our knowledge advances. People will hold on to their beliefs in the face of contradictory evidence either due to emotional or monetary reasons. The one thing I have trouble comprehending is everything just ending at death and this could be another reason people hold on to their beliefs. Now dying is something I am getting good or failing miserably at done it twice once at birth that I have no recollection of and once on the operating table in my 30’s no white lights no grim reaper no outer body experience when I asked the doctor had I died he said there were complications but how did I know I just said it was just an odd feeling I had

[@khaleelkhan4556]

As always forrest 🔥❤

[@Skullgoroth666]

Kevin's paper also has a huge list of things that were created by natural processes that he's just ignoring.

[@__-tz6xx]

If I had a Gun to my head and was told I would be shot if I didn't believe I would say whatever they would want me to say. Doesn't mean I actually believe what I say.

[@utoobiscrap639]

I'm a little late in watching this one, and I will preface with the fact that both Mr. Sr and Mr. Valkai are much more intelligent than I am. But I feel that they messed up a little on this call in addressing specifically what Kevin was bringing to the table. If this is how the last call went, then I can understand why he'd go away unsatisfied. The hosts seemed to be talking about multiple things tangential to what Kevin was asking specifically. Everything they talked about are great points about the entire breadth of the conversation, but it feels like the jumped over what Kevin was actually asking. It seemed that his question was more akin to "If I live in a house, where everything in the house was purchased by my caregiver (pick your favorite). I can go check the receipts and confirm. And then one day I find a plant in the living room that I've never seen before. It's safe to assume that it was also purchased by my caregiver. And that is rational to think so." And I think that's a valid system to build if you can show that A-X are created by intelligent minds, then it's reasonable to assume that Y and Z are also, including the entire alphabet. The problem is in what he was actually saying. He's stating "All these millions of things on this left piece of paper I can see are created by humans (Intelligent minds) therefore, it's safe to assume that the universe was as well." The only things he can go look up how to make on KZbin, is the things he already knew were created by humans. He is making no separation from Natural things, and human created. It's one of the main problems with the Watchmaker's Argument. We can show natural processes, but they are, indeed, completely natural. They require no intervention from a consciousness that we can show. I basically think the hosts accidentally started on the next step, which is to talk about understanding natural processes and the ever shrinking realm of "god", which are great things to talk about after this step based on what rebuttals come through from Kevin. But I think the big thing they missed was clarifying him about his list of things that were made by humans. And this is completely understandable, because of all the calls they take every show, with people making defenses for all points along the contingency argument. But I can understand why Kevin didn't feel that his question was being addressed sufficiently.

[@mitchellconner6928]

Did I listen to the episode this clip is from earlier today? Yes. Am I gonna listen to this again anyways? Also yes.

[@theflyingdutchguy9870]

we know about a lot of example of things in nature happening naturally. you cant point to a mountain or a canyon and say that it was clearly designed.

[@DreadEnder]

I could almost swear that looks like Forrest in the thumbnail!

[@jamesyoung1022]

Theology's most dangerous idea: "There is no such thing as an unknowable truth. Anyone can possess knowledge of truths that appear impossible to possess by intransigently pretending and insisting they possess knowledge of them." What knowledge do theists insist I should pretend to possess? 1. Should I pretend to know that an undetectable supernatural realm exists inhabited by undetectable, all-powerful, immortal, thinking agents, monitoring every human thought and act, justly entitled to micromanage every aspect of human existence? 2. Should I pretend to know that I have a special intimate personal relationship with the supernatural realm that telepathically endows me with knowledge of unknowable divine truths, to tap into the mind of their God, to know what it thinks and wants? 3. Should I pretend to know that when our ancient ancestors created their religions and wrote their holy books, they did not include in them any imaginary narratives, things that they were pretending to know but in reality, they could not possibly know? 4. Or should I resist the temptation to pretend to possess knowledge I cannot possibly access and instead accept the substantive realities of the observable world?

[@henrihelander7331]

Valkai, Hey Dracula, how laughable is that? Run Forrest run!

[@ari1234a]

It was Brian who made/created all this cosmos/universe and more..

[@NN-wc7dl]

"Reality is filled with things created by nature, yet theists always make analogies to things made by humans - clocks, cars, houses, etc. Why not make an analogy with mountains and oceans instead? For example, imagine a person seeing a hill and thinking, 'Who made this?'"

[@MrCanis4]

“Why we need proof”. says the judge who sentences an innocent man to life in prison.

[@filippofittipaldi8050]

If everything needs a creator, so created the creator?

[@tehspamgozehere]

Accepting things because you were told. Hey Kevin! If you believe irrational things your head will explode. There. Now you can live your life happily. Also, you just won The New Game. You're welcome.

[@rudihaufe271]

degrass tyson had the best answer ....i quote...we have smart people working on those questions.....can you imagine what answers we will have to many of those questions in the next 500 years?

[@vannak139]

Needing proof is a skill issue

[@briannelson27]

the more proof you need the higher your skill. religious people have 0 skill. they are iron 5 playing against plat and above.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

People write books. Claiming that sometimes a human writes on behalf of a deity, doesn’t amount to evidence.

[@tylerschwanke3557]

SR leading a conversation that has zero ‘gotcha’ moments and is civil, just working through a problem for the caller. More of this from this channel.

[@Captain-Cosmo]

It's possible that a sufficiently advanced civilization in the far and distant future unraveled the secrets of the universe and traveled back in time to create the universe. No god required.

[@tonyclements1147]

One would think they could do better than this.

[@1bam159]

​@@tonyclements1147 So if they could they would have to? They can't do it badly to see what would happen?

[@tonyclements1147]

@@1bam159 I’d like to think an advanced civilization wouldn’t create something just for shits and giggles, they’d want to see it thrive.

[@1bam159]

@@tonyclements1147 So they have all the answers for everything and don't need to do any kind of experiments?

[@tonyclements1147]

@@1bam159 Why are you trying to turn this into a thing? I never said they couldn’t be a$$holes, just that I feel an advanced civilization wouldn’t need to be a$$holes.

[@daviddrew3372]

I think therefore I am. That is the only proof of anything that I have. All the rest is subject to my perception. I have no proof that you exist. I may just be imagining this entry. Therefore I feel free to discount anything I may experience as subjective. And I can choose to live entirely at my own pleasure with no need to act in any way which would be viewed by myself as of benefit to any “other” beings because such are just subjective.

[@jeremyh1914]

I disagree wholeheartedly. As Hitchens said, (paraphrasing) “this nonsense must be ridiculed at every turn.”

[@owlflame]

I think it can be ridiculed, but not at someone genuinely trying. Like if they’re straight up not listening? Go for it. If they’re like… right there, so close to learning? I say try to talk to them

[@Bomsanchu]

I always love asking these people, "if your religious book tells you that your god did *this* and it's gets proven that there is a high probability that it did happen without intervention of anyone would. you stop believing in God" if they say yes I would stop believing in God, well then you should already not believe in God as we have disproven many things in most religious believes.

[@mikejurney9102]

If anything else were God, then we would ask, "How does that stand to reason?" So if it is reason that establishes what exists, then it is reason itself that is God. There is no other rational alternative except to say that all of reality is rational. There is some Principle of Reason holding the universe together as a consistent set of facts. And this Reason is not itself physical; it is abstract. It exists everywhere, determines everything, and takes into account all facts. For all intents and purposes it functions as the God of religious faith.

[@nealjroberts4050]

Except that it doesn't actually function, it just is. That's not how gods are presented

[@Praha175]

silly from the get-go. we have lots of videos showing "things' being "made"... but by natural processes as well as by man

[@gabrielli4268]

Wait wait, forest Valkai and Genetically modified sceptic are different people?

[@bobwilson3980]

This guy is the postal child for the word apologist.

[@szymonp1701]

Blorgia blorgia

[@DavidDavis-wd1qb]

I hardly hear anyone talk about being alive in a certain time and then death and more time passes by forever and ever and ever

[@genshinunleashed8455]

I know Kevin just gave the worst arguments over and over, but can we at least appreciate that the conversation was civil and pleasant.....that's a start

[@PatrickPaul1203]

Hes comparing man made objects to nature