The "Morality" Of Homosexuality Under Atheism

Caller asked about the morality of homosexuality through a atheist lens
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 28.19 for May, 12 2024 with Forrest Valkai and Secular Rarity!
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[@puckerings]

The way he plays dumb about the trans thing tells you exactly how the call is going to go.

[@vbunny631]

Forrest's undying defense of transgender people will never not warm my heart

[@vbunny631]

@@HamptonDoubledayJr what

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@HamptonDoubledayJrdid you miss the not in op?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@HamptonDoubledayJr I don't carry no guns!

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​@@HamptonDoubledayJryou got the OP wrong my friend.

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

Apologies, guys. Deleted 👍

[@johnsperry9494]

When a Theist becomes an Atheist, people ask, why did you lose your faith? When an Atheist becomes a Theist, I ask, why did you lose your reason?

[@fettbub92]

I'm asking many atheists that question too now. The idiotic political and philosophical junk food many atheists my age subscribe to is baffling. So uptight that they jump down a man's throat for using a prefix in its intended use.

[@freddenker9537]

When an Atheist becomes a Theist, I ask, why did you lose your Brain ???????

[@Bashbekersjiw]

@@freddenker9537 fear of death and bever be atheist .....they all follow the cult that thay are raiswd with.....what a coincidance

[@Carl-the-llama]

When a atheist becomes a theist, I ask, "why did you develop schizophrenia?"

[@Aeroldoth3]

Why did you lose your mind?

[@amtlpaul]

The same folks who say that consensual sex between those of the same gender is BAD have no trouble with supporting a man who has admitted to committing sexual assault as well as being found liable for doing just that.

[@Leith_Crowther]

That’s different because the person they assaulted was the opposite sex. /hj

[@Nanamowa]

​@@Leith_CrowtherNot even then. How many catholic priests have been predating on children, both boys and girls, for decades and getting away with it? The church shelters them and the people protect these monsters

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

Who are these people?

[@Tuna_Man2323]

@@Leith_Crowther Of course it is different. SA is a criminal offense and highly immoral, consensual sex between adults is not. Sexual orientation is irrelevant.

[@jpbaley2016]

@@Leith_Crowther It has nothing to do with the gender of the victim. It’s only about how the orange pos validates their hate.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Atheists when they find out god is real: "I guess I was wrong." Christians when they find out god isn't real: "LiFE iS oBJeCtiVeLy mEAniNgLesS!!11!1! TiMe tO bECoMe a mAsS mURdEreR!!1!11!"

[@Mauricio_Magus]

and here's the other funny thing, they actually don't become murderers, they just say it while they still believe.

[@Conan_the_rastafarian]

All atheists wouldn't react in this way. Atheism teaches or demands nothing in regards to how people react when hearing news.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@Conan_the_rastafarianatheism doesn't teach anything

[@Conan_the_rastafarian]

@@joshsheridan9511 I never said it did.

[@joshsheridan9511]

@@Conan_the_rastafarian " atheism teaches " your own words

[@beantownbanshees]

Mr British literally pretending to use they/them and the “trans” thing to poke fun of trans people is gross.

[@ericwilliams1659]

They probably microwave their tea

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@ericwilliams1659 Oh bloody hell microwave tea is an abomination🤢

[@Lazy_Sundae]

@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 They'll be microwaving Yorkshire pudding next! We're going to Hell in a handcart, I tells ya 🥺

[@wadehathawaymusic]

Microwave tea, Sacrilege!

[@Finckelstein]

Meanwhile my german behind over here is upset that the german language doesn't have a they/them equivalent, making proper discourse (and playing a gender neutral DND character) harder than it should be. That's the one real advantage the english language has over the german language in. But you'll never be cool enough to come up with words like Rinderfleischettickettierungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.

[@archivist17]

For someone who called the programme to discuss the morality of sexuality, he sure sounds reluctant to discuss the morality of sexuality 😂 Thank Russell's Teapot for Forrest & SR! Such a fantastic team.

[@smochygrice465]

Thank God for homosexuality 🙏

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

I believe God gives you the ability to choose between good and evil. And God wants you to choose good not evil but it's your choice . You have the ability to eat human feces it doesn't mean it's morally justified to do so you have the ability to live sexually perverted lifestyles it doesn't mean it's morally justifiable to do so

[@Lazy_Sundae]

@@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk Explain why being born gay is sexually perverted? Or what's wrong with two gay adults loving each other? Or why God makes people gay in the first place?

[@Spooky90097]

@@Lazy_Sundaedude deleted under the pressure

[@Lazy_Sundae]

@@Spooky90097 No, the comment is still showing.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@JamesTKirkland-ct3ykyou had the choice to be a decent, honest human You chose the opposite

[@eccod]

Conservatives really do only have that one joke, huh?

[@Alpharelic]

"JoE mAnY lIbErAlS dOeS iT tAkE tO cHaNgE a LoG bY bOlB??"

[@kaydebastion]

If he "transitioned" from an atheist to a theist, then shouldn't he be The Royal Trans Theist?

[@EmmVarsArt]

Seems like he's the kind of person who thinks the term "trans woman" means "a woman who chooses to become a man" 🤣

[@zachsmith2349]

If he did that, he would implicitly be admitting that trans women are women and trans men are men and his bigot brain wouldn't be able to handle it.

[@beverly719]

Exactly. So he was immediately incorrect with his name. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@ThePsyko420]

It always blows my mind when people suggest sexuality is a choice, as if someone would choose to be homosexual and recieve all the hate and bigotry that comes with it

[@corneliahanimann2173]

As if I chose to be straight, to put up with the men of this generation like... a lot of women would probably not choose being straight if they actually had the choice

[@alanhyland5697]

I feel much the same way about people who talk about 'grooming' children. Are they admitting that they themselves could be convinced to become gay? Because that would never happen to me.

[@KarenHoward-dj6kr]

@@alanhyland5697 Right. Gay kids read thousands of books about straight kids, yet they grow up to be gay. But some people are afraid if their straight son reads a book where a penguin has two dads, he'll immediately run out & ask Brad to the prom.

[@kasaokc]

As someone who is gay I can confirm that I spent many nights in prayer and tears and wishes to change. And now I've spent 36 years without my family because they do not acknowledge my existence anymore. So to think I purposely chose that is completely delusional. But I guess delusional sums up Christianity so, there you have it.

[@bobxbaker]

well it depends how you view it, i think in basic terms all people are bisexual but they then tend to lean on one side or another, and for some that's a choice and for some it's less so. but a lot can be said that there is social conditioning which is why there's an issue of people gravitating to one type of sexuality based on what they were promoted to prefer if they were not leaning to one or the other side by in general. so promoting homosexuality is a thing just as promoting heterosexuality is a thing as people are generally bisexual. and knowing that, which would be the best to promote from a societal standpoint? i think both are equally valid but on different terms, if society has a declining birth rate then most likely hetersexuality would be preferable and if there's an explosive birth rate then homosexuality would be prefered to stem the birth rate from going above what society is able to handle so both have their use cases. and i don't think condemnation of either is warranted in such a way that you should outlaw one or the other, however as a society people do have to look at the larger picture. i think there will always be those who will always lean on one side more than the other regardless of what is promoted and i think they should have equal treatment as far as possible.

[@reesescup69]

It's no more moral than heterosexuality. It's just people loving who they want.

[@JoeyP946]

Well yea.. other adult humans. Let's be specific please

[@JasonTaylor90210]

That's why there's a consequence called HIV/AIDS though right? 😂

[@Bashbekersjiw]

​@@JasonTaylor90210 you mean promisquity

[@patrickc3419]

It is not love. It is depravity.

[@Bashbekersjiw]

@@patrickc3419 exatly stop loving zombie demigod

[@Naeron66]

Lets see. Is it consensual? Does it make People happy? Does it intrinsically harm people or society? Yes, Yes, No. Then it is moral.

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@Hln20015 Actually genetic testing on the HIV strain typically passed among heterosexuals shows it didn't emerge from a strain typically passed by homosexual men. Please do the research.

[@Seticzech]

@Hln20015 Present your evidence and references, you FACT.

[@lovespeaks777]

Can anything be moral according to atheism?

[@Seticzech]

@@lovespeaks777 Atheism has nothing to do with morality.

[@JasonTaylor90210]

Does it give people HIV/AIDS? then how is it moral?

[@rh-gm2xp]

Really appreciate y'all calling out transphobia

[@phen0mejon99]

The answer is yes, he thinks homosexuality is immoral.

[@JoeyP946]

well what religious people think is immoral doesn't matter anyway. They think working on a sunday is immoral, eating a pig is immoral, having a picture of the wrong god is immoral. It really has nothing to do with actual morality, you know, doing good or bad things

[@LetoATX]

Mr british lying again

[@jackwhitbread4583]

It isn't Mr British, Mr British called the show very recently and answered straight away whether he thought homosexuality was moral. He did not hesitate to answer the question.

[@meowsteradmiral5140]

​@@jackwhitbread4583it is, same voice and immediately kept going back to this call during that one. He answered it so quickly because he had a week to call again and answer.

[@bobbybecker3572]

It's obviously Mr British, stop lying

[@Vaishino]

"Is homosexuality moral under atheism?" Are forks moral under theism?

[@Finckelstein]

Yeah, I sersiously don't understand how these people can make this about morality. Sexual preferences are amoral, even extreme ones. Consent and harm makes it a moral issue. Claiming that ones god hates homosexuality doesn't make homosexuality immoral. It only makes the god immoral.

[@Jcs57]

I identify as sexual I never could understand the division of sexuality. I like sex whether solo, partner or partners. If I hit it off with people and the feelings are mutual pleasuring ourselves and each other is not dependent on the equipment we have. Sex is fun and pleasurable and opening your horizons and removing self imposed boundaries is liberating. I could not live in an environment where sex is icky dirty disgusting or immoral that’s mentally unhealthy

[@Finckelstein]

@@Jcs57 That's personal preference. And we sadly don't get to choose ours. I quite literally can not choose to be attracted to men and wouldn't have a good time trying it with a man. The opposite is true for women. I quite literally couldn't choose not to be attracted to women. Doesn't mean that homosexuality is "icky" or anything. It just means it's not for me.

[@5-Volt]

​@@Jcs57I agree but it is important to distinguish that too much sex can actually be unhealthy. Both physically & mentally. Pretty much anything is bad in excess.

[@Jcs57]

@@5-Volt I breathe constantly, my heart beats continuously, I poop my than I have sex and pee more than I poop. Am I in danger what symptoms should I be looking for. Sex is dependent on desire and physicality unless you have health issues you ain’t going sex yourself to death or asthma or whatever. 😁

[@tru_blu_dude]

“DO YOU BELIEVE-“ -Forrest Valkai 2024

[@thedave1771]

You know ow it’s about to get fun when Forrest pulls out the “so then you disagree with…” 😅

[@Glasschin2.0]

Sexuality has nothing to do with atheism

[@JoeyP946]

nothing has anything to do with atheism. It's purely and only the lack of belief in a god or gods

[@kensurridge9631]

It is Mr. British using another name. He is clearly just another religious bigot. Fortunately, he does not represent people in the UK.

[@alexkilgour1328]

Unfortunately, I'd wager he represents a chunk of Brits.

[@kensurridge9631]

@@alexkilgour1328 the UK is largely secular unlike the US and most religious organisations in the UK are very liberal like Church of England, so it would be a very small number.

[@alexkilgour1328]

@@kensurridge9631 I didn't say the majority. I'm in Canada, which is more secular than the US, but we still have enough wackos that we had that Trucker Convoy of stupidity.

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@alexkilgour1328 A very small chunk. Most of us dislike the small numbers of evangelical groups. We remember the religious persecution lead by puritans and similar intolerant religious nutters.

[@hardergamer]

Not only Mr. British, but also he calls in as a Muslim or a scientist with a PhD before or just after calling in as one of his other persona or alter egos, and before them he would claim that he was a medical doctor who converted from atheist to Christianity after seeing his terminally ill wife get cured by jungle tribespeople where he met god and talked to spirits of loved ones. And that's just the ones I can think of.

[@billmcdonald4335]

Passive-aggression by any means is shitty behavior. Period. This person can take a long walk on a short pier.

[@Blightzero]

I completely agree, despite being guilty of it myself more times than I care to admit lol

[@michaelmay5453]

We're all passive aggressiva at times though. Or at least I am and everyone I know is at times. It's just a bad mood thing. Being dishonest and a coward who want's to play gamed is another issue though.

[@meowsteradmiral5140]

​@@michaelmay5453You may, but the most I act is sarcastic when upset. I can't stand that passive behavior I see apologists use

[@michaelmay5453]

@@meowsteradmiral5140 Sarcasm is the epitome of passive aggressive behaviour, what are you talking about?

[@meowsteradmiral5140]

@@michaelmay5453 literally isn't

[@somersetcace1]

I see sexuality as amoral. I don't see a rational way of placing a value judgement on a natural tendency. I am naturally attracted to the opposite sex. Some people are naturally attracted to same sex, or both. In what possible way could I reason any of it being `good` or bad?` That's no different than placing a value judgement on the color of one's hair, or the size of their feet.

[@Leith_Crowther]

There are lots of natural tendencies we can place moral value on, such as carnism, pederasty, or murder. What really makes sexuality an amoral issue is that it neither necessarily benefits nor harms anybody.

[@somersetcace1]

@@Leith_Crowther Before I got half way through your response I was thinking, (but it's victimles....err...oh) Yeah, you're right. Oh well, I'll leave it as a dunce moment. 😏 Edit: As I think about this a little more, I'm not so sure you're right after all. Take the example of Pederasty. It is defined as an act of what we would typically call pedophilia. It's not a `natural tendency,` but an act `likely` the result of a natural tendency. We could argue that even the natural tendency is immoral, but if it's natural, then what would be our basis? It wouldn't be that person's fault, in that case. We can certainly place a value judgement on the act, but no, I don't believe we would have a basis for judging the natural tendency itself. `Assuming` it is a `natural tendency.`

[@TheLevantin]

@@somersetcace1 The difference between gay and pedophile is "consent," in case you didn't know.

[@JasonTaylor90210]

BS apologetics.😂

[@sfprivateer]

Forrest: "Do you think that homosexuality is immoral?" Caller: You are asking a question about Etiquette, I cant answer Seriously. !

[@graladue]

Sounds like Mr. British to me.

[@hardergamer]

100%. Not only Mr. British, but also he calls in as a Muslim or a scientist with a PhD before or just after calling in as one of his other persona or alter egos, and before them he would claim that he was a medical doctor who converted from atheist to Christianity after seeing his terminally ill wife get cured by jungle tribespeople where he met god and talked to spirits of loved ones.

[@BradPrichard]

I like this show about 10x as much when Forrest is on it.

[@cgfamorcan9809]

Mr. British was switching British Accents for this persona but gave away by calling back and taking issues with this call 🤣

[@knownonsenseman8283]

I'm British/English and noticed no accent switch whatsoever. His prosody, inflections and even his odd pronunciation of the word theist "theyist" was clear and recognisable.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@knownonsenseman8283 His accent is what one would expect from a 2nd or 3rd gen UK Muslim.

[@BryanLu0]

​@@knownonsenseman8283It sounds to me they were saying "deist"

[@knownonsenseman8283]

@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 Rubber dinghy rapids Bro.

[@joshuaf.3723]

The proper term when one moves from a dogmatic/religious worldview to a rational one is DECONSTRUCTION.

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

The effort to get a yes/no answer out of him starting at 13:11 is reminiscent of the famous Jeremy Paxman v Michael Howard exchange on 'Newsnight'. 12 times Paxman asks "Did you threaten to overrule him?" and keeps telling him it's a simple yes/no question, while Howard keeps trying to go into long-winded answers. It became such a popular clip in the UK that someone even made a musical based on it! 😂 If you're not a Brit and you haven't seen the clip, I recommend checking it out

[@nealjroberts4050]

I totally forgot about that! It totally summed up the problem with politicians

[@ChristianCatboy]

When I came out as trans, I did "convert" from Conservative Evangelical Christianity to Progressive Ecumenical Christianity. Part of my reasoning there is that I want to be able to fling my vast knowledge of the Bible back into Evangelicals' faces. If I still identify as a Christian, then they have to argue with me on a theological level based on shared basic premises, and I believe I've got a lot of ammo to use their beliefs against them. Sure, there are some awful verses in the text that bigots can cherry-pick, but the overall message is supposed to be "love your neighbor", right? There are even some wild verses that can easily be used to support trans rights, like "there is no male or female, for you are all one", or "there are eunuchs who have "eunuchized" / castrated / feminized themselves for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven." So, I often dress as a flaming nonbinary femboy, with a flashy cross or graphic crucifix around my neck! My concept of God is kind of materialist now, though, so I affirm secular humanism. I guess the "faith" bit is just that I do believe in the afterlife, which is unprovable of course. That's based on the "vibes" I get from my experience of existence as a whole, not on reason.

[@user-cr4pz5yg7y]

Flaming non binary femboy with a cross sounds hot. Do your thing, amen

[@JeffreydeKogel]

This is one of those "JUST ANSWER THE F*CKING QUESTION: YES OR NO!" calls. 50% hilarious thanks to our lovely hosts, 50% unbearably annoying thanks to dishonest callers.

[@eyreaus2736]

He's appropriating the use of trans here. How deliberately colonial of him.

[@pencilpauli9442]

This humanistic atheist says live and let love. I agree with Eliot that sexuality is natural and therefore amoral.

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

Eating human feces is natural does that mean people should do it..

[@sanjeevgig8918]

Xtians who talk about morality conveniently forget that underage teenager Mary did not consent to the Holy Spirit coming on / in her. . LOLZ

[@ChristianCatboy]

She did consent, though: "I am the Lord's handmaiden; may everything you have said about me come true."

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@ChristianCatboy When the MOB BOSS's goon tells you to pay you say "I'm happy to pay" LOLZ

[@ChristianCatboy]

​@@sanjeevgig8918 Ha. I guess she could have responded like Jonah...

[@queuecee]

If this guy calls back during this show, maybe under the different name, "Mr. British" for example, Forrest should put his feet to the fire and see if he'll take a stance on whether homosexuality is moral or not.

[@joshsheridan9511]

I predict not only will he call under a different name but will answer the question. Because he'd know he wasn't fooling anyone but himself.

[@spookyariel1]

This did happen on the same show.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@spookyariel1 Yes look for The Atheist Experience 28.19 with Secular Rarity and Forrest Valkai

[@Lazy_Sundae]

@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 Interesting! And how come that video isn't showing on the channel's main video page? I wonder how many more I've missed!

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@Lazy_Sundae This will make you smile. This morn round 8am I went to check the mail. I noticed someone putting a sign on the unit next-door, a for sale sign🤔 So I called the agents number & when they told the the price, well I asked then if I was to pay the asking price in the next 7 days, would they be happy and I could sign the contract 2day. When She Who Must Be Obeyed found out, she 🤣 because only I could make a walk to the letter box cost 60080K🤣

[@margaretjohnson6259]

lgbt+ is not a moral or ethical issue. it's personal and harms none.

[@JoeyP946]

Right. It's not like they want to put it into kids tv shows and teach it to small children in schools

[@margaretjohnson6259]

@@JoeyP946 one can't be taught to be lgbt+ just as you weren't taught to be cisgender. and there are a lot of lgbt+ children in school and they should be supported and know they are not alone. and bullying over it has to end.

[@JoeyP946]

@@margaretjohnson6259 Of course you can teach a 4 year old to be trans. How do you not get how easily influenced children are? Why do you think religions love teaching children when they're young? I'm not saying all children, but it's definitely going to affect some of them.

[@Blahaj_Gaming847]

@@JoeyP946 I was taught to be cis and straight my entire life. How is it that I turned out trans and pan despite everything everyone had ever told me?

[@margaretjohnson6259]

@@JoeyP946 people have tried to do that, most specifically in places that don't value women. some mothers taught daughters to be sons, but one's true nature will emerge and trans can't be forced. people teach their children to be cisgender, but trans kids come out as trans anyway. one's nature is something we are born with and it isn't changeable.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

Why should god create homosexuality only to then forbid it? And yes, god created homosexuality according to the bible/quran.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

@@Conan_the_rastafarian Here is the bible verse that says your god created homosexuals. Colossians 1:16 For in him *all things were created:* things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; *all things have been created through him and for him.* The quran also has a verse about Allah creating everything, which includes homosexuality as his creation too.

[@Anonymousathiest]

Because God apparently likes to bitch and start drama apparently 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ericwilliams1659]

​@Conan_the_rastafarian Can I quote useless scripture next?

[@Conan_the_rastafarian]

@@ericwilliams1659 Well, the Bible was referenced in the original comment. So I thought I might be allowed to use it again to respond back.

[@ericwilliams1659]

@@Conan_the_rastafarian Yes or No. Was my question confusing?

[@eyreaus2736]

Good looking out hosts! Trans folks need the support!

[@kkt1986]

Excellent video. You two make a great team.

[@nagranoth_]

Absolutely ridiculous question. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with morality. Pathetic trolling of trans people, should've dropped the call at 2 minutes.

[@thecriticalone1783]

I do like the fact that they let the guy expose themselves as a homophobic idiot before dropping them though.

[@johnsperry9494]

The only sin/crime/wrongdoing is coercion. Anything that is consentual, voluntary, and harms no one cannot be immoral.

[@JoeyP946]

God disagrees. You work on a sunday or you are jealous of your neighbours, you're as immoral as it gets

[@thatonedude932]

@@JoeyP946so being jealous of your neighbors and working on Sunday is immoral but a priest who abuses children but asks for forgiveness isnt? Theism is a joke, I can’t take you seriously

[@Theroha]

​​@@thatonedude932I think he was joking. At least, I hope he was. Saying that working on a Sunday and being jealous of your neighbor is the peak of immorality reads as rather tongue in cheek to me.

[@thatonedude932]

@@Theroha it’s not the craziest thing a theist has said

[@Here_is_Waldo]

If you want to know how ridiculous the argument is, change it to being left or right handed. "Why did you choose to be left-handed? I don't want my children having to learn about this in school. Keep it in your own home, don't push your left-handed agenda on me. Where is the genetic evidence left-handed people are real?"

[@Abyzz_Knight]

This is especially good because people literally faced discrimination for being left-handed.

[@bezka3545]

if the caller calls themself a "trans atheist" and means it as transition of faith, then the way they phrase it means they transitioned INTO an atheist. So they didn't even get that right

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

"Truth is always hateful to wrongdoers." - DIVA, 6 hours ago "Truth is always hateful to wrongdoers." - Pacman1916, just now Busted! 🚨

[@corvusmonedula]

God is sending their best man again

[@Alpharelic]

Really? I've lost track over how many times he's done that

[@wils4265]

"I plead the 5th".... you're from the UK... there is no fifth amendment in your country...

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

It's a figure of speech. I often use it and I've heard other Brits use it too.

[@amtlpaul]

If we're going to be literal, the Fifth doesn't pertain to call-in shows.

[@lori3056]

This dude just called in to Chewed Gum under Mr British. Same voice, speech pattern, and manner of speaking. He called posing as a feminist and went on about brick laying and construction. He refused to engage in a real convo then, too.

[@hardergamer]

I forgot this one, and will add it to my list, so far: feminist bricky, Mr. British, a Muslim, a scientist with a PhD, and the first one I remember from last year was a medical doctor who converted from atheism to Christianity after seeing his terminally ill wife get cured by jungle tribespeople where he met god and talked to spirits of loved ones. There must be loads more.

[@Mark73]

The only way that morality impacts sexuality is in terms of consent. The most obvious way is in the case of rape/sexual assault, including child molestation. But cheating also falls under violating consent because your partner can't give informed consent to have sex with you if they don't know who else you're having sex with.

[@summerlovinxx]

the thing to note, for any Christians stalking the comments, is that all of these things are actions, not states of being. being LGBT isn't immoral because there is no harm to be evaluated from an innate quality. there's nothing immoral about a rock being gray, there's nothing immoral about water being a liquid, and there's nothing immoral about a person being LGBT.

[@Leith_Crowther]

⁠@@summerlovinxxPlease don’t go there. That’s how you get “homosexuality is only bad if you ‘act’ on it” people.

[@Finckelstein]

"The only way that morality impacts sexuality is in terms of consent." That's not exactly true. Google the Cannibal of Rothenburg and keep in mind that everything he did was consensual. Causing harm for pleasure, consensual or not, is immoral in my view.

[@Paolo8772]

@@Finckelstein He lied. The people being eaten never gave consent.

[@Finckelstein]

@@Paolo8772 No he didn't lie. Why would you just make up stuff? This is the most thoroughly documented case of consensual cannibalism of all time Not only do we have everything in writing, we also have explicit videos of the whole thing. Including one in which the victim dares Armin (the cannibal) to bite his thing off. When that failed Armin used tools and the victim tried to eat his own stuff himself.

[@brutusmagnuson315]

“I plead the fifth” is the most delicate-spined response to being pinned down to answer a simple question. My god, this guy could run for congress. I’m surprised bro can even stand up

[@corneliahanimann2173]

Isn't plead the fifth an american thing? Like, I assume the brits don't live by the rules of american independence etc.

[@brutusmagnuson315]

@@corneliahanimann2173 Yeah, it’s your right to remain silent. Colloquially, it’s used when someone doesn’t want to answer a question. Obviously, this guy didn’t want to directly say what his actual opinion was.

[@corneliahanimann2173]

@@brutusmagnuson315 I've only met americans who say that, so this confused me from a brit

[@markastoforoff7838]

When someone can't answer a simple yes or no question you can tell what their true answer is but they don't want to come off in the wrong way but it just makes them look worse.

[@tye64]

That's mostly true... ex: Have you stopped beating your mother? It seems like a simple 'yes/no' question, but it also presumes that you have been beating your mother. It's a dishonest question the likes of which which apologists love to posit. Whether they do this as a smokescreen to protect themselves from honest 'yes/no' questions or if they are just dishonest scum to the core... well, we know they are, but it's debatable how forward thinking they are about it.

[@Theroha]

Honestly rings of the same men who say that they don't follow politics because they discovered that being honest about their conservative beliefs didn't help them get laid.

[@erikgilson1687]

This caller thinks he's extremely clever I'm surprised he didn't say he identifies as an Apache helicopter

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Apparently, Jesus wore a dress, had long hair, hung out with men and apparently never had a girlfriend. Just saying.

[@samwisegamgee6532]

And had 2 dads and a mother, one of them being sort of himself making him half a clone I guess.

[@Theroha]

Jesus was wild compared to his followers. There's a childhood gospel where kid Jesus kills a kid who annoyed him and only brought him back to life because his mom was going to ground him.

[@GiantRobotsConquerTheWorld]

I greatly enjoyed watching you refuse to let him talk unless he gave a simple yes or no answer. I was so happy

[@chrishorsfield6268]

14:12 Wow. Dodge the question in every possible way. Just admit to your bigotry and stop using your religion as a shield.

[@hexum7]

Royal can’t just say “I don’t like gay people” because that would be taking responsibility for the homophobia emanating from him personally.

[@mattg5802]

I like it when SR and Forest just play with these trolls - Forest clearly remembered this guy straight away 😂 and just carried on for the fun of playing him

[@ethantownsend458]

If Forrest ever wanted to experiment, I’d give him the time of his life and his wife.

[@asayake1]

@@ethantownsend458eww

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

​@@ethantownsend458Forrester is married to a woman a real woman? The kind with XX chromosomes and a Vijay? No way. Next you're going to be telling me the person next to him is also straight

[@philipelsbecker9440]

Forrest’s inner pastor was coming out 😂 “do you believe!” 😂

[@seannelson3613]

I'll never stop being surprised at these people that go out of their way to broadcast and advertise their own smallness. If I chose to be a hateful, disingenuous, pathetic loser, I'd probably be inclined to keep it to myself.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Would you, though? What if you knew you were a hateful, disingenuous, pathetic loser but you were desperate for some kind of validation?

[@fld9201]

100% agree.

[@carvedwood1953]

I wish Forest would interview some politicians with that I am going to ask this question until you fucking answer it style lol.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

It's clear that Dingleberry is struggling with the consequences of his actions on KZbin. His repeated violations of community guidelines and subsequent temper tantrums speak volumes about his inability to handle accountability. Based on information shared by QC, it appears his father is very successful. This, combined with his behaviour, suggests that he grew up in an environment where he was given everything he wanted without learning essential values like kindness, respect, and humility. It's likely that his parents' influence shielded him from the consequences of his actions, allowing him to bully others without facing repercussions. He's spent his life assuming he could get away with anything because he never faced real consequences. However, KZbin operates differently. Here, his parents' influence means nothing, and he's held accountable for his behaviour. That's why he constantly complains about being reported-he's not used to facing the consequences of his actions.

[@nealjroberts4050]

And they'd be used to getting their own way without having to justify their actions such as providing evidence for their assertions.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Just for fun, Just some history re young JimCastleberry, the following is a list of profiles that he has made since 5th April 2021: Edith Bromfeld/Reality Check /Truth Matters /Clyde Barrow/ dawkin rich /Vlad Putin/Richard Eubank/Cletus Hornbuckle/Ham Bone/Lester Bestertester/Joe Thudbuckle/Rev Rufus Thudbuckle/Joe Daddy/Joe Momma/Joe FoneBone/Thug Life/Fester B Thuggin/Festus Is Bestus/God's Thug/Tom Hammer/Atheism Kills/Truth Bomb/Joe Crank/Ham Bone/Hambone Jomamma/Rev. Bubba Flavel/Rev. Cletus Thudbuckle/Atheism Exposed/Rev Fester BesterTester. I'm sure I have missed a few. The reason he has to make new profile is because YT keeps removing them for and I quote : "This account has been terminated due to repeated abusive, hateful and/or harassing comments that violate KZbin's Community Guidelines."

[@jonnowds]

Are you talking about the caller a.k.a. Mr. British?

[@ianbabineau5340]

It sounds equivalent to when someone says something really offensive and when people don’t agree with it you pretend it was always intended to be a joke.

[@Theroha]

Schrodinger's asshole.

[@Andrea-cq6eg]

I mean, english isn't my first language, and I still get it

[@ann18o96]

"I don't get what I'm doing" only honest part of the caller xD

[@AdamBarnett256]

They sound a lot like Mr. British 🤔

[@steakknives]

The basis of morality: what is good for a being is what is good for a being.

[@iremembersomethings]

You know he left thinking he "got to the atheists"

[@paul.c.gregory]

This guy needs to be banned for good, it is a despicable excuse for a human being, looking only to shock in order to get recognition.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Fun fact, The Line has banned Mr. British aka Trans Atheist phone number and IPS address.

[@jonbrown7980]

Forrest- "Did you call in before under the name 'Mr. British'?" Caller- "..........No..." Everyone- "Sure bro."

[@glrinc7756]

Royal Troll

[@sarahtriboix-kamga416]

Homosexuality, like heterosexuality is neither moral nor immoral, it just "is". Like how it's not moral or immoral to be a man or woman or adult or child or neurodivergent or neurotypical etc. Sincerely a religious, queer, trans person ❤

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

I think that for the answer to that question, we should ask some of the gay people who regularly post here, like Diva, Ricky Lambert or Nepy.

[@veggiet2009]

The fact he was unwilling to answer the same question he himself asked

[@inkysteve]

There is no fifth in the UK.

[@Leith_Crowther]

Technically he was “on trial” in an American “court.”

[@inkysteve]

@@Leith_Crowther Who had the gavel?

[@briannelson27]

American media is so pervasive throughout the world it is not surprising that our idioms are used elsewhere. Did you know they did a documentary about how many people in the world knew about gilligans island? it was do wierd to see remove villages that dont even have plumbing recognize gilligan when he went to interview them.

[@inkysteve]

@@briannelson27 There, apparently, was a survey done a few years ago here in the UK which determined that a majority of working class people (the ones who think that the US is great) can name most, if not all, of the US states. Those of us who read books can not.

[@Taylor-vz4ot]

i find "moral" is often just a buzzword thrown out by the religious to mean "anything i personally like, have investment in, or benefit directly from".

[@Taylor-vz4ot]

therefore any sex they are not having, is immoral, because they're not the ones benefiting XD

[@JoeyP946]

to me being moral is doing the right thing, not hurting people, helping them where I can. To a religious guy being moral is not working on a sunday, not eating a pig, not using god's name in vain. it's like we have different definitions of what morality is

[@smochygrice465]

First 💪

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

Conga rats!

[@joshsheridan9511]

Well done

[@nealjroberts4050]

Have a bright and shiny day! ❤️

[@ToniTheMink]

This voice sounds VERY familiar…. I’m pretty sure he called in before with a Scottish accent defending the pro-life movement and the overturning of Roe v. Wade…

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

He used to call The Line under the name Mr. British, but The Line has banned his ISP.

[@RyanJones-ew8vm]

Ill be honest, ive made jokes about tra ns people. I also make jokes about every other type of person. I dont discriminate i dislike everyone equally.

[@JamesTKirkland-ct3yk]

Put Ryan I'm assuming you're an atheist humanist leftist. Which means even if you make jokes about it we know that you totally support homosexual lifestyle and transitioning children and trans boys wearing female clothing. Unless I'm mistaken and you don't support the atheistic humanist left politically. Lmk PS of course if you're an atheist humanist living under an atheistic humanist government it's more likely your jokes have to do with hatred for the rainbow community as we know there's a lot of hatred for the LGBT community from atheistic governments

[@joshsheridan9511]

W C Fields

[@drg8687]

Very Christian of you!

[@RyanJones-ew8vm]

@@drg8687 🤣 forgive me.

[@suburban-vampire]

"I wanted to let people on KZbin know that I am a dick" LOL

[@Darth_Duende]

Mr. British, once again getting hung up on semantics as well as lying about who he is.

[@wordscapes5690]

This caller is “Mr. British”. A troll. Block the number. It wastes our time.

[@lmacthephoenix]

This caller is slathered in slime. All he had to say was gay=bad. Then they could debate his bigotry but he was too slimy to be honest.. SMH 🤦🏾

[@DrDnd4nyer]

Nicely done holding Mr B's feet to the fire.

[@Nochannelherebro]

They shoulda called themselves trans-theist, based on the reason they gave for calling themselves what they did. But then again they weren't being genuine from the jump, thinking they were gonna semantically one up the hosts. It's sad and funny and infuriating all at the same time

[@Nerazmus]

Answering yes/no question challenge level is impossible.

[@HamptonDoubledayJr]

Interesting that James T Kirkland is claiming in the comments that being gay is a "lifestyle choice", that it's "sexually perverted", that it's "harmful to society" and that "men living those lifestyles commit more adult rape than straight men do against women" (no, seriously - he actually said that!), yet no matter how many times he's asked (by several people) to back up his claims with evidence or sources, he's apparently unable to do so. Quelle surprise 🙄💩🥱

[@joshsheridan9511]

He doesn't have any sources and he knows it.

[@Andre-zw5kl]

Not just that but he is against all the studies on this subject. And against the psychology in general

[@ericwilliams1659]

When asked about the harm of cigarettes, he claimed not to have all the facts yet. If he hasn't learned about smoke at his age, he will never figure out he is wrong on other positions

[@GroundhogRoy]

"...yet no matter how many times he's asked (by several people) to back up his claims with evidence or sources, he's apparently unable to do so..." Sounds familiar 😂

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Buggering Christ on a bike, has JoeysTransEaster/JoeySniffedAshley/JoeyShekels-bn8dd /JoeByeDumb/MeTooAshleyBiden-xi7ru/Fascists Dems /JackMishandling/JacksEvidenceTampering /JoeByeDumb-vg6jr made yet another new profile?

[@GeraldDeBelen]

I love how Forrest just dodged the caller ad infinitum to give him an outright answer to illustrate how theists will try to twist with word salads

[@TheDigitalWatcher]

He didn't even use the proper syntax with the "trans" descriptor. If he was an atheist, and is now a theist, he would be a "trans theist."

[@ianbabineau5340]

He SOUNDS like Mr British. I’m not a voice analyst, but it’s definitely similar to the “naked ear”.

[@thechemistamvs5033]

It's a reference to trans people Forrest. He doesn't hold any negative views based on what he's saying and so it's a simple reference. Doesn't have to be negative. He could support trans people for all you know with a name like that

[@shanewilson7994]

He might maybe have the tiniest benefit of the doubt if he hadn't shown his true colors in other calls he's had.

[@thechemistamvs5033]

@@shanewilson7994 Oh true? The guys a known ass?

[@midnightmadness6344]

I really doubt it. A theist coming on the show asking about the morality of sexual orientation, and having Trans in his name, nah bro. Especially as he went on and said repeatedly that he “transitioned” to being a theist.

[@thechemistamvs5033]

@@midnightmadness6344 Yeah good points.

[@LolMahmood]

Pure troll. He's just playing a game to keep talking without answering any questions or contributing any positive statements

[@Cory182]

14:05 how does someone from the UK plead the 5th? 🤣

[@corneliahanimann2173]

Pledged allegiance to the wrong flag I suppose

[@CarlosMarshall-n1j]

That might have been the funniest call ever on AXP!

[@JarredTheWyrdWorker]

Watching the two of you refuse to let Royal move on without giving a direct answer to your question was epic.

[@sarads7877]

“I plead the fifth” boy you are in britain…

[@HumanoidMachine]

I feel like they were being kind of shitty and ignorant about his name. It doesn't necessarily need to have anything to do with transsexuals. Did they forget that the word "transhumanist" exists?? I really think it was a reference to that and not a jab at the trans community.

[@Stevenafoe]

It’s just the old lie ‘i used to be an atheist…’ . Same story.

[@jarodcarnarvon5198]

WHY would the caller call himself a "trans" ???? Weird!!

[@petrlorenc7230]

I agree with Forrest, the chosen name should have been different. It's just the details we disagree on: the correct expression isn't "convert", it's "asshole".

[@Cheesemondo]

Forrest and SR were just superb on this call!

[@KyouTGD]

But Mr. Valkai, that's not a straight question, that's a gay question. It deserves a gay answer. That's why he wouldn't give one.

[@RoninTF2011]

nope, simple question...tapdancing coward didn't have the balls to answer

[@booey316]

Well for the record transitioning is not just a word used for sexuality. I can see where they're coming from but I also think that they are being disingenuous making assumptions about him being disingenuous.

[@clukinvar]

Oh boy, it's "Mr. British" again with a new fake name. What a joke.