Why We're Changing the Kinda Funny Review Scale - Kinda Funny Gamescast

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Time Stamps:
00:00:00 - Stand By
00:00:40 - Start
00:03:40 - Housekeeping
00:09:13 - Why Change the Scale?
00:31:20 - Our Final Score
00:53:40 - Scale breakdown
01:02:40 - The SCALE
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[@GreatShinob1W0lf]

I think not having a lead reviewer is a mistake personally. Because the lead reviewer is typically the one whose opinion matters the most to me imo. Finishing a game carries a lot of weight for many people.

[@s___e___b___72]

Yup!

[@Stewb420]

What about when multiple people beat the game? Would the lead reviewers score still count more?

[@s___e___b___72]

@@Stewb420 no, like Tim said, one of the few things I agreed with that he said, is the lead reviewer is just the guaranteed person who will see the game through. Doesn’t make anyone else’s score any more or less valuable so long as they also beat the game. If they didn’t beat the game, and the lead reviewer did, I’d hold the lead reviewer’s score in higher regard. But that’s just a personal choice of who u wanna side with essentially, it’s up to the viewer

[@tylerd4039]

I love the idea of an end of the year mulligan show to speak on review scores that may have changed later on, or reviews that someone may have not had a chance to play until later on.

[@randalladkins7452]

Another fun show might be checking back on a review 2-3 years later to see if the opinion changed or stayed the same over time, outside of Games of the Year thoughts and focuses.

[@007GoldenLion]

That is not enougt we need a 1000 point scale.

[@pretendingtolisten6502]

I want to know down to the decimal point the. 1000.0001, the prefect shoe

[@aimless_aimer7936]

​@@pretendingtolisten6502 BASED

[@aro52]

I understand (and agree with) Tim pushing so hard on "the numbers don't matter; there is no KF official score; listen to our words", but Blessing also has a point with "but Parris' score was used in the Twitter review roundups and on Tik Tok". People will always see that as the KF final score. I like the idea of averaging the scores of the people on the panel. Even if everyone in the company doesn't play it, it is still closer to a company consensus than just using the lead reviewer's score for the Tik Tok. (Could also let each person do their own Tik Tok review and have multiple for each game)

[@RossMillerMediumMashup]

The thing is, I'm not so sure that a consensus really means anything, especially with more love it or hate it games. Like if Blessing gives Elden Ring a 10 and Greg gives it a 2, you end up with a 6, despite nobody in the world thinking Elden Ring is a 6.

[@aro52]

@@RossMillerMediumMashup This is true and reminds me of EGM (rip) including reviews from multiple people. They had write-ups and numbers from 3-4 people. Maybe that is the way...

[@basedplants]

​@@RossMillerMediumMashupit is a 6, and even your own example contradicts that

[@tarutso]

@@RossMillerMediumMashup that’s an extreme case surely. If a score by itself is useful to you, then averaging a bunch of useful scores, would be useful

[@idakev]

​​​@@RossMillerMediumMashup Except Greg would never give the game a 2. He'd give it at least 7. Then the average between him and Blessing's 10 is an 8.5 or higher which is completely reasonable and arguably more valuable and balanced. Let's stick to realistic examples and be fair.

[@famousjamous]

Missed watching this live but can't wait to dive in now! I'm sure chat was super supportive and understanding and not at all unhinged

[@LoveJr30]

I’m not gonna lie Tim and Greg confused me this whole time but Andy, Bless, and Roger actually explained it better. I think Greg and Tim need to stop over explaining things because at least for me it confuses me more

[@DeltronFF]

Bingo

[@JoshxDarnxIt]

What confused you? I feel very strongly that they're correct, but understand there are other factors in play that must be accommodated.

[@s___e___b___72]

Agreed

[@JesCarl-bt2wl]

The thing is they are not at all articulate. It’s never been their strength, which is a little odd for a podcast when you think about it, but they have other strengths.

[@jessebluespncr]

I understand Tim’s perspective but I think there is value for a final score.

[@MechaPig227]

This is the kind of inside baseball conversation that would not have been possible in the old weekly format. Loving it! There's some feedback for you.

[@zakblade3876]

The biggest problem with the review scale is that time is wasted in every review just explaining what the scale is and then giving the same spiel about why everyone loves that 3/5 can mean mediocre, fine, or good and their scale leads to great conversations like that instead of just letting the conversation be the conversation. As long as the new scale gets rid of the ambiguities so the review can focus on talking about the game instead of talking about the scale, I’m all for it. Having said that, I also wanna give mad props to being so quick to change up your schedule to talk about the Xbox news 2 days ago. That sort of flexibility really shows off why your change-up to swap out PS I Love You and XCast for more games casts totally worth it, and there really isn’t another group on the industry that can react to news that quickly.

[@pretendingtolisten6502]

at 25 min and im pretty confused. everyone feels heated except andy and roger lol edit: tim is the big brother between greg and blessing who are about to throw hands lol

[@linkjag]

I think that the people who are confused about this misunderstand the point of criticism. They're the same people who get mad at "reviewers" as a blanket group. The point of criticism is finding people who share a lot of your opinions or whose opinions you understand so well that their reaction to a game (or movie or book or album or whatever) can inform whether or not that piece of media is right for you. I personally love that we are just gonna hear everyone's thoughts. There doesn't need to be an official score because we all relate to the different members of the kinda funny cast in different ways

[@J_Tevo]

What I would say is potentially hold off on calling them "Reviews". It's a very formal word that holds a lot of weight, so branding the videos as something else might help with the general vibe of "This is a discussion", as well as indicate to new viewers the purpose of the podcasts/videos. If you're gonna have people who only had time to play around 8 hours of a 30 hour game, I would say it'd be better to call them something along the lines of "Thoughts on.." or "Opinions of..." instead. Mainly due to the fact a review is about informing a reader/viewer on an item and what they get with a potential purchase of that product. With such a small experience of a much larger game, I don't feel like that exactly does what a review should be; a thorough overview of the entire game to inform someone of whether or not it is worth your money to buy this thing. As after those 8 hours, the game might become obscenely repetitive and/or be entirely buggy at the certain point of progression 15 hours in.

[@bucketfeet5567]

They won't get the clicks if it's not called a review

[@Alex_Logan22]

Greg already has a bad habit of not doing everything in a game if he doesn't enjoy it, even if the side quests are a lot better than the main quests, thus misinforming.

[@J_Tevo]

@@bucketfeet5567 Gameranx names their videos "Before You Buy" and yet people still click on those. It's just about sticking to a piece of branding so that viewers then associate a phrase or thumbnail style to what their style of game discussion is.

[@bucketfeet5567]

@@J_Tevo True. But they also have 8M subs 😂

[@J_Tevo]

@@bucketfeet5567 They got to that sub-number partly because of the branding. So maybe the best thing to do is to come up with their own thing to separate thing instead of using 'Review' in the title/thumbnails to stand out in the search engine.

[@neonpocketdimension]

I’ve always wanted to watch a KF meeting live - this was great

[@rockbsaul]

I really like the idea of attaching games to the scale. Even if it’s just subjective for each person. Ready to watch that episode lol

[@MG_Gambino]

I with tim, i dont care about the numbers. I care about the conversation, but im also a fan of how skill up does reviews. Strongly recommend - strongly dont recommend, but i definitely like the idea of everyone bringing what they think a 10-1 is to the table. Great discussion fellas

[@LadyRed1492]

This reminds me of Whose Line is it Anyways, "Welcome to Kinda Funny. Where we talk about video games and the points dont matter!"

[@PicomanGames]

My guess this came about due to Roger giving FF7 a 60/100 (3/5)

[@neoshadow5192]

I’m glad we got their updated reviews for Rebirth because knowing Blessing gave it a 4/5 (80/100) on the old scale but actually thinks it more like an 8.5/9 out of 10 makes a lot more sense to me from how he talked about the game during the review

[@tloz171nfs]

The scores in that review were HEINOUS.

[@ytm23ak]

People been complaining about their prior scale for years

[@ToroBlancoPR]

Totally deserved score tbf

[@CheefChaos]

Brave of yall goong to a 666 scale but i thank you for honoring our dark lord.

[@RiddlingStatue]

Like some people mentioned in the comments. I don’t think you guys should call videos reviews if you haven’t finished the game at least. It should be first impressions or something like that. For the regular viewers we understand but anyone who is new and see oh we only played 2 hours and scores don’t matter then why is it called a review lol ? A review of 2 hours I guess ? Not very helpful to someone looking to be informed

[@JesCarl-bt2wl]

That’s basically “we don’t have the bandwidth but we want the click.”

[@dcreate]

Great move in my opinion. Always felt the 5 point scale left a little mess in the 3’s and no opportunity to celebrate a genuine masterpiece that would differentiate from other 5/5’s. At some point in this discussion, everyone made their case & echoed my feelings one way or another. I love you guys.

[@luvstagrind]

Every point scale is a mess. Why do you think people give ign shit? When they always give the constant 7/10 rating so often that their audience feel that score is now "too low". Lesser number is a lesser headache and gives you the general enjoyment of the game.

[@dcreate]

@@luvstagrind I don’t particularly agree or disagree & I’m not trying to antagonise you, but do you never refer to a game or film as a 10/10 etc with friends? I’m absolutely with KF for the wider conversation & debate. For certain games I care about Andy’s opinion or Greg’s or Bless’ etc cause they’ve always been a great voice for the styles of games I like too. To me, the scores are just a free-hand starting point for 0-5 probably a waste of time, 6-10 if this is your style, give it a shot.

[@julio1148]

Blessing’s points resonated most with me. Specially here 20:00

[@JamesDavisMakes]

I'm glad Tim chimed in to say why the score is needed from a business standpoint because, otherwise, I hate number ratings so much and wish we ran further away from it. Once you give something a number, that's all people tend to focus on. Funny enough, I think people tend to talk about the number more than the conversation/article leading up to the number. Hell, the general gaming public tends to (annoyingly) think in school grading terms and I'd be fine if the industry as a whole went the letter score system -- no matter what number you give it, everyone knows what an F is. Also, you can use plus and minus to get more granular if needed.

[@sergioscouchtime3737]

I like the change, not because it’s necessary but I think about all the times when someone would rate a high or low version of a number. Now they can just choose one that feels right… OR maybe I’m just chatting and the same high and low versions of a number will happen anyway lol. Either way we’re all here for the discussions, very much enjoying the daily gamecasts.

[@daverooney86]

Have you guys ever thought of putting up a visual every time you talk about supporting your company and all the features you get and where to sign up? I think it would help❤

[@JuturningMeOn]

Tim F-ing hated all of that hahaha. He really wishes they could have no numbers at all.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

Well that would make sense. People don’t watch Podcasts to hear scores. They want the discussion.

[@gowsa2233]

Tim is also the best at saying nothing with the most words

[@josephbonner8553]

He's right though, you can't put a score on somebody's opinion and then use that to sum up something. I hated Skyrim and if I reviewed it I would have given it a 3 out of 10, am I right in that situation? Hell no. That is one of the best games ever made, but personally I didn't like it every reviewer is human and they will have different opinions and scores. Experience art for yourself I don't let a made-up score determine your enjoyment of it

[@TheSmackerly]

I prefer no score myself for this type of content. 20 point scale is a better option then the five.

[@ssidemalu16]

Even before they did scores at least one person would always say something like “if i had to give it score, I’d give x”. I would challenge them to not do this during a discussion.

[@TheNAKEDduck]

Happy with the end result of this, never liked 5 pt scale for the same reasons discussed in the video. I do think Blessing was the voice of the audience throughout this episode. - it is confusing to us when you say someone is the lead reviewer, use their score for the social media short videos, and is the score included in review roundups, but then say there was never a KF score. To us, the score/review made by the lead reviewer was the main review you choose to represent KF for press/social media - I like the idea that this will goes away, is my understanding correct in thinking that this change means the social media short is no longer one persons review and instead will be the teams thoughts? How does that work for the KF score you want for the roundup, or is that not the goal anymore? Regardless, love the change and the game cast changes. Has really been great stuff.

[@TheNAKEDduck]

Update, todays reviews answered all my questions. Good stuff 👍

[@G0ldnFen1x]

(only partially through the video, so I don't know if this has already been answered). I'm very curious to see if they go to a 20-point scale if we ever see a score lower than 5. That's the big thing I see with wide point scales - you never see the low end used, and it functionally turns into a 5-10 scale, where 7 is a mid game.

[@G0ldnFen1x]

"We rarely review games that are 1 out of 5" cool then there's no point in using review scores. If you only review games that are at least good, if you aren't trying to get on metacritic, if there's not a unified KF score... what's the point of a review scale? Keep yourselves set apart. People come to KF to listen to a bunch of cool people talk about what they like and dislike about games. A review score doesn't enhance that, it just adds an unnecessary layer.

[@G0ldnFen1x]

"The score is a language we can commit to using together" You've said several times in this video that a score means different things to different people. So you're gonna have to explain the score anyway. Why not drop the score and focus on the conversation, since the score isn't going to be universally the same for each person?

[@G0ldnFen1x]

Ultimately, none of this matters. If there's not a unified "Kinda Funny Score", if you aren't being included in the review aggregators, if the whole point is just to have another point of discussion, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't need a podcast devoted to "we're changing the Kinda Funny review scale", because the scale and score doesn't matter. What this all comes down to is that you are all, to some level, from games journalism, where there has been a spotlight on review scores, and you want to be a voice in that realm. At the same time, you don't want to be IGN/GameSpot/Kotaku/etc., because you want to be the cool guys who chat about games with their "friends" ("friends" being your audience). You want to have your cake (being respected games journalists) and eat it too (being entertaining content producers free of rigid corporate control/oversight). It's understandable, but imo you gotta pick a lane. I came to KF personally because it wasn't rigid, because it did feel like friends chatting about fun stuff. I've largely dropped off in the past couple of years because it has felt less and less like that, and I think that's a symptom of this waffling between visions.

[@JoshxDarnxIt]

I don't necessarily agree with your last comment, but I 100% agree with everything else you said.

[@G0ldnFen1x]

@@JoshxDarnxIt That's 100% fair. That last comment is probably me being the most opinionated/harsh/asshole-y in all these comments. xD

[@muhannadburwais8400]

Cant wait for the first masterpiece and the first gollum

[@Cloudsheep93]

All of what they're saying makes perfect sense and I love that

[@chaostheoryELEVEN]

Loved the discussion, boys. Really vibing with Bless's point about reviews analyzing overarching questions about the 'message' of the game, in addition to an analysis of the quality of gameplay, art, performance. What if reviews were sort of like the content in a Nerdwriter video or in an episode of The Blessing Show? I think it'd further push the review format and continue to help us look at games as art, in addition to entertainment. Thanks again, KF crew! ❤

[@LowSkillPlays]

The only thing I'll say about the review score debate is perception is reality for everyone that isn't a Kinda Funny fan, meaning for them all that matters IS the score. I think in that sense I hope KF at least considers a way to market their reviews and their scores because thats what is going to get people in the door. For a lot of people discussion about a new game revolves around the scores and the metacritic. I think getting into that discussion is important for anyone trying to be a part of this side of the industry.

[@masterpatthew1181]

“The country?” 😂

[@habibk.2423]

Agree with the other comments. The 5 scale was always bad.

[@Sirdoom34]

Absolutely loved this episode

[@MrZojim]

I think the not official Kf rating would work great for tiktoks too. The clip could be everyone’s score and entice people to watch the episode to see why everyone is align or why one person scored it way lower than the rest. I think it would drive more people to the podcasts

[@NickT3400]

Absolutely love this change!

[@michaelholmes6320]

I think this is great guys, personally this is what I want. I don’t need to compare your games reviews to others, I just want whatever facilitates the best conversation

[@neekothegeeko960]

The problem with a 10 point scale is that we rarely play any games that are a 5 or less. So all of the games we play/review are in the top 5 of a 10 scale anyways…

[@failuretothink]

I started listening / watching to IGN podcasts after 1up disbanded. they got rid of the video department ( Area 5) due to focusing on written editorial, where ironically , a few years later, more and more websites were starting to do more video content. 1up video department was a few years ahead of their time.

[@dangerousaniimals]

Honestly I thought the 5 point scale was a solid compromise between giving a score that summarized your opinion and having the score be general enough that the review was still more important. But changing it doesn’t really change much for the discussion so I don’t really mind.

[@JacobTheProtector]

To get around only putting one person's review score on shorts, etc and it seeming like it represents the whole company - i'd consider making an image for each review that just lists everyones individual scores (those that did score it) and using that as the review image when needed. And just put a kinda funny headline on top

[@DriveShaftDrummer]

I didn’t have much of an opinion on the 5 point scale outside of the occasional eye roll from the “4 that I loved like a 5” verdict. But I agree with Greg in that the point of the 5 point was just for a quick pop to get into the discussion… thus kind of making them irrelevant. But wow how cool is the new GamesCast format that we can have nitty gritty inside baseball discussions like this!

[@rTTnCRAFT]

I love when Greg talks about some guy on Twitter being an ass and how it's we don't serve you, you aren't a best friend. Then right after a best friend asks who's score counts? No yea, that person was definitely probably your audience. Stop trying to tell these people they are in the know and different than the average Joe gamer. They are the fuckin average Joe's lmfao

[@RossMillerMediumMashup]

Hey! Great conversation, and I love that you're doing it out in the open. Here's my two cents: 1. You mention that you don't want these scores to feel too "scientific," because it's really all about the conversation, not the score. I think that's great. However, a 20-point scale is pretty in the weeds, and actually twice as nuanced as IGN. Those of us who watch videos like this or follow you get what you're doing, but having that many score options does kind of communicate to the uninitiated that you are trying to be as "objective" as possible, like some of the bigger sites. I don't think it's inherently bad or anything, but it does feel like mixed messaging. 2. The decision not to have a "lead" reviewer is also good, and reminds me of the EGM-heydey, when they had three reviewers for almost every game, each with their own equally-meaningful score. I think given the personality-driven approach you've always had, it's a smart move. That being said, the "lead" reviewer did have the effect of making at least one reviewer try to finish the game. Are you still going to push for that, or is completion not going to be a big factor moving forward? And if somebody is required to finish the game, and others aren't, aren't they effectively the lead reviewer anyway, since they have the most knowledge about the game? Again, I think it's a good move, it just leads to other potential questions. 3. Ultimately, none of this really matters on our end, so long as it gives you the tools you need to communicate your feelings on the game, and leads to good conversation. You do you!

[@shadshadingtonthethird]

I didn't even consider the second point until now but that's a good one. I understand not everyone in the panel can finish every game, especially in time for an embargo drop, but it was nice knowing at least one person on the panel would have finished and fully understood their opinion on the game instead of a buncha reviews with asterisks next to them that may never be followed up on. (at least not in a medium I'll catch since I can't watch every single thing that gets put out) I personally like the idea of a "lead" reviewer just for that sake. Of course, I'll be watching the full thing and I want to hear everyone's thoughts, but I do like having a definitive number from whoever beat the game.

[@idakev]

It's not mixed messaging. The 1-100 scale was genuinely too scientific because you can't meaningfully explain the difference between why you gave something a 71 instead of a 72. *It's doesn't intuitively map to anything.* Half-point increments do. To me, a lot of games are 8.5s and 7.5s and I can easily explain what that means. That's the difference. A 1-10 scale is genuinely just too limiting because *you end up with people saying "It's a strong 8". They mean it's an 8.5.* Just let them say that rather than saying "You must pick a bucket and give the game a higher or lower score than what you actually feel." That's goofy and unfair.

[@CyberChris2077]

I give this discussion a 5/5 on the Kinda Funny scale 👍👍👍👍👍

[@TheColorUrple]

I remember very clearly that the 5-point scale was sold to us "being general enough as to allow group discussion in the podcast format. Now: "Nah, it was marketing."

[@oddishu]

When I "review" stuff, I actually use a 5 point scale. I always thought the IGN 10 point scales were kind of stupid since they never use the full scale. I just never liked how you guys did your 5 point scale cause you guys would use 2 numbers that were essentially bad. #1 and #2. When #1 should only be THE bad score. Heres my list for example. 5.) Amazing 4.) Great 3.) Good 2.) Decent 1.) Bad Imo, you can measure how good a game is but when a game is bad, it's bad. So theres no point in measure how bad a game is. You should just label it as BAD.

[@bodenasko6761]

I’ve always thought this too, what’s the point in talking about how bad a game is. Just so negative let’s focus on what matters

[@misterc9048]

Haven't watched yet but i am excited to see how this changes. I always found the review score frustrating where 3 could be good or bad depending on the inflection of the reviewers voice when they said "okay". I absolutely got the point about "encouraging discussion" but at that point just don't have a review score. And so much time was dedicated to explaining it that it just more of a hinderandce. Tldr, i am glad its changing

[@misterc9048]

Okay, having watched this imo this is a "have your cake and eat it too" and it results in a worse product not a superior one. If the review score is just a marketing billboard then there's already been too much discussion about it. Imo it's going to be extraordinarily difficult and confusing to have it both ways where the review score matters and yet also doesn't matter. It's important but also not important. I think either the review score needs to matter or it needs to not exist. Just having it for the marketing and this half and half approaching is a mistake and doesn't make the discussion better imo. Since the introduction of the score there's been so much discussion about the score and justifying scores etc. I think for this group, it's better to not have a score.

[@misterc9048]

So far, I definitely think no score is the better option. Quantifying it into a number is not additive to the discussion. Talking about the score and why the game achieves a particular score is not good. I don't hear talk about the scoring, I want to hear about the game

[@toast9965]

If you guys aren't worried about meta or a numbered score, then do something new! Rankings Could be: G.O.A.T. Tier G.O.T.Y. Tier S+, S, S- Tiers A+, A, A- Tiers B+, B, B- Tiers C+, C, C- Tiers D+, D, D- Tiers F+, F, F- Tiers That gives you a 20 point system!

[@Isaac-bu8hu]

I liked the 5 point scale because it was more interesting to hear the reviewer make a choice and explain it. A 7.9 out of 10 really just feel like we couldn't commit to an opinion. With that said, please still finish games, haha.. The DD2 experience should explain why you need to finish a game.

[@tobyblue4318]

I was happy with the old system but we did get a lot of 3s and 4s so I understand the impetus for changing. Having said that I don't think the jump from a 5 to 20 point scale was justified strongly enough. Imo 10 points is more than enough of a spread to use as a discussion point. Explaining why a game is a 9 and not a 10 with words is more interesting than going for the 9.5. Despite all that that it's a change in the right direction and I'm looking forward to the first reviews using the new scale

[@bruce_leon1044]

Tim spent this whole time contradicting himself. One second he says the score doesn't matter, then in the next breath he says it does 🤷🏽

[@TheViceroy400]

For me a 10/10 means much more than a 5/5. When I see a 5/5 from KF I think “Ok this is a good game worth looking into”. If only because I.E. - when giving a game a 10 on a 10pt scale it means you had to justify why it’s better for the 9 spots below. You had to justify why it’s better than a 7, why it’s better than a 8…9 and ultimately a 10. When you limit your scale to just 5 point scale….you rob yourself of the nuance conversation that truly separates the good from the great and the great from the masterpieces. A 4/5 vs 5/5 means far less than 9/10 vs a 10/10. Keep up the great work boys. 💙

[@SuperHellhawk]

Seems to be a lot of changes recently

[@jonathanw4432]

I maybe a minority but I liked the 5 point score. I have limited time to invest in games but the 1-5 scale really helped me decide what I was gonna play. Although I do like the idea of end of year adjustments or changes as the game evolves.

[@poedono9640]

I feel like the super chat question regarding “well what score counts?” Was misunderstood. You guys are on metacritic so I think it’s a genuine question to wonder which of the scores is the one that gets submitted. Would you average the table? Or just submit the top score? Or is it the “lead reviewer”? Much love guys

[@captainpackage7]

This is a good move as I could tell you before any person opened their mouth what their score would have been on the 5 point scale.

[@jamiechattaway2546]

Like clockwork, every time... even the "3 that I loved like a 4"

[@geoafe66]

This is way better! good job guys

[@dennisdimambrojr2375]

"If my grandma had a wheel, she'd be a bicycle." So... She already has one wheel?

[@HusslerkiD]

Glad you guys have changed the scoring, i think review scores are important even though I listen to all the podcasts. I think having a lead review or an official KF score is also important, though. I'd be in the camp advocating for that staying. Adds value in the same way the "10" does. Doesn't detract from the individual reviews either.

[@Tovalx]

Having a lead reviewer who see the game through the end is important imo. Since having repeats of the Dogma 2 "review" sucks.

[@julio1148]

I kind of wish y’ll used a Jeremy Jahn-lik review score 😅 no numbers, just phrases that embody your experience with the game

[@TheSmackerly]

I like the 20 point scale. My confusion npw becomes what's the point of the short form content? The score (which is empahsized doesnt matter and there is no kf score) will now be multiple scores at the beginning before a short clip explaining the review?

[@huverdashhuverdash2940]

My suggestion is a 15 point scale. 1-5 would be whole number scores with 5.5, 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5, 10. Nobody needs extra granularity for bad scores, but it will allow more granularity for good/great games. Nobody needs to know or care whether a game scores 3 or 3.5, and doing so is meaningless, but the difference between 8, 8.5 and 9 may be more valuable

[@fragr33f74]

Yeah the KF 5 point system was not it, so glad it's changing. But ultimately I do agree with Tim that it's the conversation that's the most important. Ultimately tho, having a score system that better matches the tone of the conversation is only a good thing imo. Final thing ill say is i think we're in an age where scores dont matter as much when it comes to how popular reviews are. Skill Up and Gameranx being examples of reviewers who dont use scores but are still super popular.

[@michaelclark2594]

I know I’m late to this, but if anyone at KF will hear me out I would be very grateful. I’ve had a slight beef with your review scale ever since it was introduced. I find point systems flawed no matter the scale. Why not use your platform and go for something like “Love It, Kinda Love It, Like It, Kinda Hate It, Hate It”. In a way, it’s still a point system, but one that makes since and doesn’t tie you down or contradict conflicting scores.

[@tarnished36]

Why don't you use global top of games? Put each reviewed games into ordered list (top N) instead of assigning them 1-10 mark. This way you 1) have an interesting list, 2) keep older games in sight

[@AndrewB2189]

Great conversation I’m so glad you’re switching to a 20 point scale. We all know what scores mean when we talk about things like metacritic. Blessing was right about people being annoyed if you play a game for 2 hours and give it a score. I don’t think that’s fair. It was weird that Greg kind of dismissed Blessing’s point

[@iMrChavez]

Personally I disagree with Andy about saying 5 should be middle, you should think of it as a school grade, 50% is failing, 70% should be the average.

[@MrEnyaws07]

Im a fan of the change as I never cared for the 5 point scale, the 3 vs a 3! proved it was too small of a scale. Ofc its all about the discussion and not the score. But they are kinda talking in circles in this episode and almost contradicting themselves with some of what they are saying. Blessing was great though, amplified what I was thinking as well with his comments and questions.

[@TurnaboutAdam]

I think averaging the scores to create a score you submit to metacritic would especially back up the philosophy that no one’s score matters more or less.

[@terryjeffs6401]

It's true, that a point score detracts from whatever is said/written, as this is the only thing that everyone ends up fixating on. All the views and experience through playing the game is just boiled down to a number. However, if a number scale is be used it has to be out of 10. and no points, because then it's starts getting real messy and petty with comparisons between games. Also, please for the love of god, if a game is average or ok, it's a 5/10 not a 7/10. GamesTM magazine had this down the right way. RIP.

[@ieyke]

Absolutely not. A+ 10 phenomenal A 9 great B 8 good C 7 average D 6 not good F 5 terrible F- 4 buggy/broken but playable F- 3 incoherent barely playable F- 2 completely broken and unplayable F- 1 complete gibberish offensively bad This is standard. This is how grading works. Everyone understands this. Everyone LIVES this system for 12+ years.

[@terryjeffs6401]

@@ieyke No. That's how IGN grades. Not everyone else. Pick up an industry respected print like Edge and you will see that their rating system is very different. On a 1-10 scale, 5 is the middle score, being average. It's basic mathematics.

[@prettyhatemachine101]

My review score of this episode is: 107 out of Purple.

[@shrewbu]

Im giving this discussion a 5. Which review scale? Who’s to say…

[@ClicheSk8r]

I like this! Those of us who know can then work out ourselves like "It was an Andy 9, but it's a Tim 6, so I might not enjoy it"

[@Heypeacelovee]

My take away - “everything's made up and the points don't matter!” Cool discussion & glad y’all are flexing for what makes sense for you as a group 👍🏻

[@0Gumpy0]

Kinda funny : we're gonna make you come

[@CompletelyInadequate]

this is what we all told you when you switched to the five point scale lol 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@DeMo15]

Have y’all considered an 7 or 8 point scale? 0-7

[@raspberrycordial5996]

So a group of people each give it their own score, all having the same weight. Sounds very Famitsu. The problem is when they say no individual person is providing the Kinda Funny score, what score is going to be used in the review round-up tweets etc.? Because you know they are going to want to be included in those conversations. They will have to be very clear in providing scores to people to quote it as "reviewer name (KF)". Either add your scores together and average it out for the KF score famitsu-style, or stick with the "lead reviewer" method.

[@randalladkins7452]

GameXplain always had the best scoring system IMHO.

[@Thisslapsmydude]

The 5 scale was truly awful. How can one number mean 2 different things. That always bothered me

[@luvstagrind]

To be fair an out of 10 doesn't really make it better now. Now 2 scores equal words that basically mean the same thing Ex. 1=awful, 2=bad. To me, those mean the same thing

[@Teja]

@@luvstagrinddefinitely not. For me 1 - i really hate it 2 - i hate it Theres a difference between them Humans are not good at objectivity, we are subjective beings So saying something is awful, bad its all same thinf. So review scores are meaningless if u r trying to be objective. But if u accept your subjectivity, then i have clear demarkations in a 10 point scale

[@luvstagrind]

​@@Teja that doesn't convince me. You're still saying the same thing regardless of those scores. If something is a 2/10 then by basic fractions that is still a 1/5 rating. Yes it is "vague" but just because they are making the numbers bigger doesn't mean there enjoying the game any more or less.

[@johnschwartz11]

37:40 AAH I see you Greg, you pop girly you

[@ytm23ak]

I was a functioning gameaholic til nobody noticed my new review metric.

[@ImJmacc]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one lol

[@brokenrellik552]

I don't feel like I can judge the new review scale until we get a game review but at the moment I do think this is a good idea but I could change my mind time will tell.

[@ronsil6815]

meh if the numbers don't matter then don't even give it a number.

[@cjsplitzon8833]

This was a hectic episode lol

[@stanco4ever]

I think the 5 points works better for movies. Five star is must see (or objectively great even if its not your thing), 4 star is fantastic but not perfect, 3 star is a fun popcorn flick but missable, etc. But games have so much more to them - not saying they are a better form of entertainment, but they have more components to factor in

[@randalladkins7452]

To be fair, movies, hotels, restaurants, and everything else actually use a 11 point scale. It’s 0 to 5 stars with 1/2 point increments. I.e. 4 1/2 stars.

[@tmiller12051]

5 point scale: Wow, Aight, Ehh, Oof, A$$

[@AdotBooM]

1-10 is so much better hated 1-5 i understand what they are trying to say tho as their scores, whether they like it or not influence people and their wallets but i always appreciate their honesty

[@shadowknight1994]

I like the discussion being had but I don't like that there are moments where it feels like people are frustrated with the audience for asking questions like "whose score counts" when for the past X years (either intentionally or unintentionally) you've framed it in such a way. If you're going to make a whole podcast about a big change you're making please show some patience if it takes the audience some time to be trained on the new information.

[@parkerstoops6058]

Did anyone know the lowest Oreo rating?

[@randalladkins7452]

1:04:37 - Wonder if they’ll have an end of year worst games awards like the razzies, but they call the the gollums? 😊

[@HaverZach]

I had no idea this was such a divisive topic. I guess i can see why!

[@beausis]

It's not my show so my opinion doesn't hold much weight and we are just talking vids so I won't lose any sleep over it but I think it's kinda whack to get rid of the Kinda Funny score completely. I'd like to see it be the average of all the Kinda Funny scores combined. Similar to how you guys do game of the year. You could take this opportunity to continue with individual scores so we can or can not relate to each of you on an individual basis and also add in a team score to solidify your brand

[@PapoOv]

I rather have a 4 point scale. Simple and you have to commit if a game is good or bad

[@Lawarot]

I'm concerned that with a 20 point scale, there is little to no consistency on what a number means to different people. A lot of people consider a 7 a bad game. But for me it's just below great.

[@TheWrldIsSquare]

Justice for Rebirth.

[@David-uc6sg]

But whose review counts?!

[@moses3167]

40:58 Greg, with all due respect, I don’t want you to call me or your audience of regulars “consumers of the content” again. That makes me want to vomit. Refer to yourself as a “consumer of content” when it comes to your interactions with media/entertainment if you wish but nah man, leave me out of it. I’m a listener.