"Why?" "Why What?"

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

On a more practical note, the other side is a lot more likely to surrender to you if they know that you do take prisoners, and treat your prisoners better than they treat theirs. An enemy who knows that their opponent takes no prisoners will fight ten times harder, since they know the only way to survive is to win.

[@nathanielhellerstein5871]

Ah yes, good old enlightened self-interest. It needs to be enlightened, to deserve to exist, but also self-interested, to be able to exist.

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

@@nathanielhellerstein5871 There's no problem with appealing to both compassion and reason at the same time: Some people fail to feel compassion, but will see reason. Some people fail to see reason but will be moved by compassion. The only real problem is that sometimes, people fail to see reason, and do not feel compassion, and therefore both are lost on them.

[@whitegoose2017]

Never force someone into a corner unless you're willing to find out exactly just how hard they can fight back.

[@Ralnon]

There is a lot of truth in that: the major issue with Japan in WW2 was the lack of understanding between the two sides of what to expect: of what was 'normal' for each side. The allies became so jaded from both the knowledge of the likely treatment by the foe if captured, and at the willingness to do anything to kill - it became impossible to surrender, or to risk accepting a surrender. The result was horrific for both sides. in the UK the war in the east is often called the forgotten war: and its certainly true that's it far less understood how bitter that war was, how horrible it was to be on the ground. Its something of a marvel that any kind of peace was found afterwards.

[@smcneal057]

RIP Richard Biggs Thank you for your role.

[@porpus99]

People look to McCoy or Crusher as the quintessential doctors in scifi, but Franklin was the more realistic. A man able to do wonderous things, but still a man with problems and demons. Even now during the COVID epidemic, the medical community is struggling. Going to work everyday trying to save lives, but in the end it may not be enough for everyone. It takes its toll, just as the events of B5 took its toll on Franklin.

[@michaelbowen2343]

Dr. Franklin definitely blew those two out of the water.

[@Camulus777]

I agree with this. Star Trek made humanity some sort of evolved mythical wonder race that could go from fighter to savior in an instant, but b5 showed humanity. Our arrogance, our passion, our dependance, our individuality, our fear and our compassion for those that do not understand us. In the show what sets humanity apart from all of the other races and what the others fear about us is our ability to build communities no matter who is a part of it.

[@whitegoose2017]

ST:TNG feels like watching a show for children sometimes.

[@RavynArcadia]

I would say DS9 shows some dark sides. Like Sisko and Garak getting the Romulans on their side.

[@ThanatoselNyx]

@@whitegoose2017 that's exactly what it is and it is awesome.

[@Ragitsu]

@@whitegoose2017 Cynicism is cool, yeah?

[@Ragitsu]

@@ThanatoselNyx Optimism can seem childish.

[@PassiveSmoking]

I've not seen this scene before but I think I already love it. Instead of flying off the handle or kicking the guy out, Franklin sympathises with him, then calmly and reasonably explains to him why he's wrong. If only more people worked to win people over this way instead of with protests of rhetoric or violence.

[@jonnnney]

What is really great is Franklin isn't explaining why the guy is wrong. He is merely explains that it is a matter of opinion and he has a different opinion.

[@Ragitsu]

Apathy is easy.

[@roguishpaladin]

In a perfect world, yes, you could do this. In a perfect world, though, there are not people who realize that asking this question not in good faith can lead to them basically filibustering your time and effort. Those people know that they cannot contribute to progress, but they can keep you from progress and frustrate you enough that you give in. Those people are black holes, absorbing the light of others while reflecting nothing but darkness.

[@sebastiangrimm4370]

@Agent J life is precious. But to many people are just to dumb or not willing to see it.

[@thorshammer7883]

@Agent J Tell me why does he have to prove it too you?

[@clairestark9024]

It's interesting that Franklin actually gets the blue collar guys perspective, doesn't judge and elaborates

[@Lerrinus]

RIP Richard Biggs

[@BlueGravity777]

Who's Richard?

[@Lerrinus]

@@BlueGravity777 The black doctor

[@BlueGravity777]

@@Lerrinus ty

[@Blackwind_Legacy]

The one thing B5 consistently does for me is to remind me that despite what the universe throws at me, always be a better person.

[@SerPinkKnight]

"Leadership is not magnetic personality, that can just as well be a glib tongue. It is not "making friends and influencing people", that is flattery. Leadership is lifting a person's vision to higher sights, the raising of a person's performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations."

[@cherryberry2423]

This show does not get the credit it deserves. So beautifully written and so many great actors.

[@HisDivineShadow245]

Scenes like this remind me why this show is probably the greatest shows in existence and WAY ahead of its time.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

Really, I'd call it timeless because these themes are still relevant today.

[@KaneinEncanto]

This was one of my favorite episodes, it's always fun to step outside the 'usual players' perspectives and see things from a brand new perspective.

[@aliciaborth3016]

Even though they added this character for dramatic effect later, it was great for someone on the higher echelon to not just see a mechanic but a man with a question. Franklin took the time to explain his point of view and how he came to that reasoning.

[@Jerubarbaruah]

One of the best episodes in the series. It would have been so easy to show everything from the main casts point of view but instead they showed everything from the perspective of these two maintenance guys. I loved the part where Byron shows the other one what its like to be flying a star fury outside. Truly magnificent all around.

[@55Quirll]

I forgot about that part. Yes to be able to walk in another persons shoes would enable you to appreciate that person and others like them. I am saddened that Byron died, too bad it couldn't have Bester, He was and is the worst that Humanity has to offer.

[@HitMeNot]

@@55Quirll If you read the books, in a weird way, you'll start to feel even for Bester. Guy only thought he was doing the right thing.

[@55Quirll]

@@HitMeNot Thank you, I will try to read the books, didn't know that there were any. I really enjoyed the show and the spin off, too bad they didn't do a spin off concerning the Rangers, that would have been an awesome show, if they used the same writers.

[@HitMeNot]

@@55Quirll There are a bunch of series, I personally liked the one about the TechnoMages.

[@55Quirll]

@@HitMeNot I liked the Technomages, like to learn how to be one.

[@marktisdale8058]

In my opinion, one of the best episodes.

[@Reoh0z]

You're not alone, it was such a unique perspective.

[@jaythebarbarian195]

When I was a kid watching this show, it was always a toss up between my favorite human, Dr. Franklin because of his insight into the human condition and general intelligence, and Garibaldi because he's just a tough, principled, just guy. Both battling very human personal flaws (Franklin's drug addiction, Garibaldi's alcoholism and hot temper). Looking back on it, most of the characters, even aliens were very human. G'Kar, initially portrayed as a simple political opportunist in the first few episodes, becomes a tormented and self-sacrificing revolutionary, Mallori, ever the opportunist, values the Republic over all and displays immense compassion towards the nice, capable, but naive Vir, I didn't really care about Delenne one way or the other, but that's a writing problem, not an acting problem. The themes that Earth was, by definition, a fascist state but it was not cartoonish. God such a good, and deep show.

[@michaelman957]

Instead of being self righteous, Franklin sympathizes, explains his position, then let's the other man think on it. THAT is how to have respectful and persuasive dialogue.

[@themotorcyclemasswhole]

Babylon 5: Star Trek for smart people

[@RoyCyberPunk]

Globalist Left minions are religious zealots for all intended purposes and cannot be reasoned with.

[@thinkingclearly2864]

Franklin is a true humanist. He'll be looking to save anyone, from their side or our side. That's what you'd want your enemy to do for you. That is an evolved sense of being

[@finrodbrs]

Hi Think Clearly. I'm curious about something. Why is Franklin's view an "evolved" sense of being. As I understand it, evolution's view is "the strong survive and the weak die off, advancing the species." Survival of the fittest. Would Franklin's view of "all life is sacred" be the exact opposite of evolution's view?

[@thinkingclearly2864]

finrodbrs Hi finrodbrs. I'm using the term "evolved" in it's colloquial expressional form, to indicate something advanced in a positive sense. However no, his view of all life being sacred would not be the exact opposite of evolution's view, or more correctly the facts of how evolution works. Survival of the fittest is a reference to the most successful species being the one that replicates itself the most. It's descriptive of natural selection. There are millions of species that co-exist on our planet and it would be both logical and moral to imagine a future where sentient life from different worlds would be able to co-exist without wiping each other out. Co-operation has proven to be very advantageous for advancing many species on earth.

[@finrodbrs]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree that cooperation is far better than conflict. I just don't think that evolution would be the system that brings it about (unless it's cooperation due to an external threat). I guess I always see a slight contradiction when people say that a "peace and equality" society would be brought about by a system whose engine is death and conflict.

[@thinkingclearly2864]

finrodbrs Like I say I wasn't literally suggesting evolution would bring about any kind of society. Evolution is just the mechanism we observe for how life develops. Although having said that it is the mechanism by which our brains developed and we use those to devise our moral systems so in a way it is kind of responsible. I'd also say death and conflict is only part of evolution's engine. Replication is also life and much of evolution is about co-operation. It's a mixed bag.

[@finrodbrs]

Well, i don't believe in evolution in the first place. But I do know the basics. Like I said, I just find it a bit of a contradictory statement (even if you weren't being literal).

[@ServantOfOdin]

That last bit is ever so important... Gosh I love that show.

[@bigosmusichideout8439]

Such a great show. Very few out there like B5!!!

[@KevinPatterson]

Biggs was a very good actor, and along with Franke s soundtrack, was just full of emotion.

[@themisspultone]

This was a great episode

[@JK-Visions]

Cool story about life and the people who clean up the station and keep it running. Loved this episode. Great questions by JMS as always.

[@dumaskhan]

Notice he did not judge him. He did not try to correct his beliefs or admonish him for not taking the moral opinion. Everyone has a choice. Some die for those choices, and others open doors for others.

[@saquist]

Hero's don't just have a badge and uniform. They are everyday people.

[@petegaines52]

B5 GREAT SHOW 👍 IT SHOW REAL HUMANITY

[@HisDivineShadow245]

@LessAiredvanU "A View From the Gallery" is the name of this episode. I believe it is from Season 5.

[@diamondjim7560]

This entire cast from Babylon 5 are outstanding and it’s sad so many have passed too soon. However what made this an over the top show was the background music mostly composed by Christopher Franke. His music was every bit as good as John Williams and John Barry. Franke was able to touch a level of emotion the actors got us partly there.

[@McRocket]

Great story.

[@keithgolden77]

I would love for this series to be redone I'm HD, not remade, just redone for hd graphics. Would be awesome

[@rizon72]

Redo all the CG shots would be good.

[@Spacejockey426]

Yes, exactly. Too many may dismiss the show cause the CGI effects are rudimentary by today's standards. Babylon 5 shines because of its writing, and the amazing actors who brought that writing to life. Giving B5 a remastered facelift on it's effects is definitely warranted! They did it for Star Trek: The Original series, another show that deserved it as well (and they did a great job, especially on the one episode that had an amazing 200 special effects shots, the 2x06 episode "The Doomsday Machine.") If they can do that for Star Trek, they can certainly give Babylon 5 the respect it richly deserves as well . . .

[@keithgolden77]

This show had so many things dealing with what we got going on today it's scary. Alot if the issues and alot if what was said in the show so long ago can be attributed to today's society. This series REALLY needs to be reshown

[@ryandtibbetts2962]

This was one of the best episodes to come out of Season 5.

[@joannamcdee9061]

Soooo well acted!

[@galenskirata]

My favorite episode

[@bthsr7113]

The high road can yield valuable fruit.

[@LessAiredvanU]

This was my favourite episode, when two maintenance guys encounter all of the different characters in the course of their work. Any idea what the episode was called?

[@annoyed707]

A View From The Gallery, was it not?

[@BlueGravity777]

13 years ago this was posted. I'm feeling old

[@LessAiredvanU]

@HisDivineShadow245 Thank you.

[@Ragzzy-R]

say whatever you want, in my mind, Franklin and EMS from Voyager are the greatest Sci-fi doctors. Franklin especially is actually more realistically human. He's flawed, he has his own demons and yet, he always stick to being a doctor.

[@kevincaruthers5412]

As both a combat veteran and a medical doctor, I see both sides. Both sides are right. It all depends on your perspective.

[@AJM5K6]

What episode was this? How could I have missed this?

[@danielyeshe]

AJM5K6 A View From the Gallery

[@Crazael]

You probably missed it because it's a Season 5 episode. One of the better ones, though.

[@Shogun459]

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." THE Management.

[@blanemylke4144]

"The only way end to *racism* is when humanity encounters an alien lifeform, then the fighting between the humans will stop; instead it'll continue with the aliens."

[@JnEricsonx]

Yeah great, with our luck we'll meet the Minbari rather than say, Vulcans.

[@Daniel-rd6st]

@@JnEricsonx Well the Minbari arent too bad, if you dont fly gunslinging into their territory, or in other words pray that it isnt Trump who conducts the first contact.

[@JnEricsonx]

@@Daniel-rd6st No shit.

[@nathanielhellerstein5871]

Unless the aliens, like Cortez, are smart enough to side with the oppressed against the oppressors.

[@rashkavar]

@@Daniel-rd6st In the context of that quote, meeting the Minbari would mean fighting with the Minbari. Which, as demonstrated by Sinclair's backstory is...not a good idea. That said, flying into their territory with your gun ports open is actually a good idea, as it's a sign of respect to the Warrior Caste....it's just actually shooting them that's a bad plane.

[@LordTalax]

Why........is this such shitty resolution?

[@guardian33]

Because that's real life.

[@jussijavanainen9952]

Maybe because it was uploaded 15 years ago.

[@Grinchier]

All life is sacred .. but then the guy you just saved has gone on to kill more. Oops.

[@dynamicworlds1]

But inspired the man's son to become a doctor that destroyed his notes to prevent them from being used to create a bioweapon that could have resulted in the extinction of 2 sentient races (the Mimbari, who would have been the target, and the humans who would have been wiped out in retaliation) to say nothing of the increased xenophobia that learning of said event would have caused in the rest of the galaxy, which would have almost certainly bared all other species' doctors from studying them. On top of that, the kind of trust having medical staff able to treat anyone that Dr. Franklin's expertise and leadership brought to the station was vital for making the Babylon project work to even the half degree it did, which (along with him) was vital in forming the tenuous alliance that resulted in the end to Vorlon/Shadow wars. Without that doctor sticking to his "bleeding heart" principles, said wars would have continued to repeat for who knows how long, so how many sentient races did he indirrectly save from extermination? (To say nothing of the unimaginable sum of the individual costs) Utilitarianism is a fine field of ethical philosophy, but you can't do it half-way or it doesn't work, so it's better as a lense to use when doing in-depth analysis of moral principles and ethical codes. A sufficiently thought-out utilitarian ethical system hardly seems pragmatic at first glance because it can understand the wisdom in acting on principles. Meanwhile, as you have so kindly demonstrated, ghastly, objections to humanist values are often very emotional reasoning wearing a cloak of false logic.

[@charleslennonbaker]

@@dynamicworlds1 in effect this scene is WHY the Babylon Project was created.

[@Hiraghm]

My "hey doc" question is... "Hey, doc... those who captured your father... what species were they? Ah, right. Human. With human background and human value systems. Do you hesitate to kill a wasp? Ever spray your home for roaches? The poison that sticks to the roach and lets him live long enough to carry it back to the nest? Ever feel any qualms of guilt about that? Oh, right. They're not human. They have an entirely different value system; collectivist. They carry disease, destroy property. But if they could build starships... I guess that would suddenly change all that and make them human with human values and human ways of thinking?"

[@Jokie155]

Insects aren't sapient, irrelevant comparison.

[@redshirt5126]

the whole wasp thing doesn't make sense because wasps aren't self aware. That being said, i thing your comment about value systems is important. few people nowadays take that into consideration and assume that everyone should come together under some rainbow and hold hands because "progressiveness". different people have different values, and while those people may be created equally, their values are not. i imagine this is especially true with aliens. hell, there are a dozen examples in this show alone.

[@rantingrodent416]

"Progressiveness" gets bandied around with a lot of different definitions and ideas attached to it, but really all it is is having some vision for how the world might be better than it is and trying to make that happen with the means available to you? I'm always kind of surprised that everyone doesn't operate this way. The doctor's like monologue here is exactly that. He took up the mantle of compassionate healer even knowing that the one who inspired him to do so was killed for living out those very qualities. You don't have to be naive about consequences to persist in the face of them.

[@TauridBorn]

They never actually say the colonies are human colonies, actually

[@stephenwood6663]

I daresay an argument that boils down to "You shouldn't feel guilt about killing nonhumans; only human lives matter." wouldn't get far on a station where nearly 60% of the population are nonhumans. There's a good chance that that man sat next to a nonhuman at lunch. Indeed, the very existence of Babylon 5 implicitly concedes that sentient aliens are people, worthy of the same respect that a human deserves.