Why YOU Don't Understand RYDER'S BETRAYAL in GTA San Andreas

[@TKnHappyNess]

One sign of Ryder's betrayal is in the mission House Party. A Grove Street member informs CJ, Sweet, and Ryder about the Ballas' impending attack. The latter says he's going to go get some back up, but never participates in the gunfight, because you won't see him at the end

[@DrModGTA]

Possibly one of the only subtle signs someone could say indicated something!

[@myaltaccountthatiwillbarel2288]

​​@@DrModGTAI think Ryder claiming himself to be too intelligent during his little rant was a good hint that he was gonna betray as wel as it shows his ego and how he was always thinking about himself.

[@westly0524]

Well, the gunfight could have been short so by the time Ryder came back it would have already been over

[@Ineed427dollars]

And also the fact that Ryder is never called out for leaving the gun fight which makes me think he was just crammed in the cutscene and then never added to the fight

[@the_sam_strong]

He also tells CJ he doesn't know what is really going on in the mission Robbin Uncle Sam and when CJ asks him what that means Ryder changes topic

[@vincentbarbes7672]

Everyone needs a homie like Caesar

[@connorprice1902]

100% he was a gc

[@AdrianCuyubambaDiaz]

Banging our sister? Nah man, I'm fine

[@everia_games]

Thats a real one

[@rorisang8602]

Or Wu Zi

[@gothia1715]

What i love about Caesar is that the story tells you to not judge a guy by his race but by his actions. And its not in this insufferable woke style we got today. Just based early 2000s writing. 👌

[@swag-hunterroronoazoro2398]

Even as a 9 year old child, I remember how odd, forced and unnatural Ryder’s betrayal felt

[@RileyFreeman_]

Same in fact I remember growing up thinking I must’ve missed something big but because I was little then so thought I wasn’t paying attention during the game, then like in 2019 I saw a video of someone complaining that Ryder betraying us doesn’t make sense so I knew it wasn’t just me

[@idontevenknow741]

Same, after I killed Ryder I was like “that’s it?” No cutscene nothing?

[@thefinalkayakboss]

Lmaooo bro aint none of us should have been playing this at 9 years old.

[@sirsancti5504]

Dude, I played way "worse" at 9yo. I was about 17 when this came out.

[@UnimportantAcc]

@@thefinalkayakboss it was instrumental to our childhood bro 🙏🙏

[@ajt9011]

Incredible how after almost 2 decades of release, we are still discussing elements of this game

[@RileyFreeman_]

You can see how hurt we all are still 🥲

[@Gwapanase]

love this game

[@capoazzlack8252]

Yeah bro I still play it 20 years later it's was the best gta I know with 4 and vice city story's but gta sa then gta 4 and then gta vcs Gta 5 is not even a favor off mine hate gta 5 and online I'm fare in online like 458 lvl but to be real only wasted ours of my life cause they got not same heart like back at gta sa all is just bulshitt put together and always never new just recycle content that's allways nothing is realy new and was already there in some gta so yeah still discussing the old good gta's cause we won't get some like that again!!!!!!!

[@superbeta1716]

This is kinda milking the cow already, we all know his betrayal was forced and looked shoehorned into the game, hell even 20 years ago we knew that Ryder was not intended to betray the gang

[@XanVicious]

@@capoazzlack8252 no bs they dont make em like they used to lol. i've also been playing this game since release fr.

[@BrownMan-gg7dx]

I never knew that's why big smoke was in the house in the beginning. When I first played I assumed they was close like that and had keys to each other's houses or something like that. He was waiting to bat sweet to death. Damn, big smoke was scandalous

[@Sh0tgunJust1ce]

I don't actually think Smoke was there to kill Sweet. He probably was waiting at the home while the Ballas killed Sweet and possibly Ryder at the funeral. Then, if the Ballas came to finish him off to tie up any loose ends, he'd jump them. Hence why he says "You picked the wrong house."

[@MaxM-vt2fg]

He was probably just a plot devixw to introduce CJ back to the grove street.

[@MegasXRL]

@@Sh0tgunJust1ce i always thought smoke was there because he was living there when i was a kid but that makes no sense. Probably rockstar wanted big smoke to be the first character from the gang to introduce us, just to make his betrayal more of a thing in the end

[@ImEazyE]

I don't think Smoke was waiting in the Johnson house to beat Sweet to death. This is also a big GTA SA myth to me. When you watch the introduction, he seems to be scared to send the Ballas do the dirty work for him. Therefore I can't imagine Smoke killing Sweet by himself with a baseball bat. Sweet doesn't even live in this house, and, as the gang leader he is probably armed and surrounded by his homies especially after the death of his mom. Also, as you can see the ballas try to kill Sweet again when he's at the cemetery. In my opinion Smoke was just defending the house because Sweet asked him to do so. And this is also a good alibi so no one realizes that he's involved in Sweet's death.

[@MegasXRL]

@@ImEazyE probably that was the reason.

[@andrej4930]

I've always said in videos like this or discussions about Ryder, that he should have died in The Green Sabre mission during the shootout under highway with Ballas. It'd be better outcome for the whole story and Smoke's betrayal would feel harsher and ending would bring more satisfaction of the revenge

[@Raphails]

Definitely in my opinion this whould be way better than what we got

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

@@Raphails For Real.......

[@book1840]

Imagine how emotional it could be especially because It’s when Ryder finally started to warm up and ready to forgive CJ.

[@KedKexKevin]

Someone should mod the story like this with ai voice lines

[@vaiyt]

But killing him on pier 69 is so fun. you can race him, but you can also shoot him in the water, or destroy the vehicles so he gets stranded 😅

[@MM715S19]

It just feels so incomplete when Ryder felt like such a real homie

[@ItsAstie]

Thats what betrayal feels like

[@olivercharles2930]

@@ItsAstie not really

[@ma.cannon2849]

@@olivercharles2930 that means you’re the snake in the group of friends

[@truelies9187]

@@olivercharles2930Stfu know it all

[@alcolito7265]

Snake? SNAKE? SNAAAAAAAKKKEEEEEEEE!!??

[@pedror.4009]

I think that the only mistake was placing ryder on the green saber cutscene. Removing him would make the plot more convincing.

[@kiki88561]

Damn, you're right. You really opened my eyes

[@ginogatash4030]

I dunno, it would be less weird but still sudden to just see him in that mission with no real buildup. I think they came up with his role in the mission kinda too late in development to rework his story that far in a more organic way because of budget or whatever so they put him in the green sabre cutscene to make the confrontation with Ryder later feel more climactic without redoing too much work. It's sloppy, but making you sit on the reveal of his betrayal before meeting Ryder again does make his death a feel little more important like a milestone to the game's completion, and I'm guessing the Mendez boat ride switch was also done to make his demise feel more climactic, though personally I do like him dying first better.

[@brainman67]

You could just have him die in the gun fight and sweet get arrested

[@conartist831]

hmm, hard to say. i could see it working with his betrayal having less build up and a huge dump when we see him pull up to that meeting, woulda been huge if he was the last one and we told someone close to Grove would be there and CJ assuming it would be Big Smoke only to find Ryder showing up.

[@blackace69]

​@@ginogatash4030Actually you would see him in Photo Opportunity so that would make infinite more sense then putting him in green saber for some reason

[@MidnxghtSky]

I think Rockstar just wasn't sure what to do with the character of Ryder after CJ left Los Santos, so they decided to shoe horn him into the betrayal storyline and kill him off with as little hassle as possible. It's a shame, it would have been good to see Ryder again upon CJ's return to LS and have him help (in his own way) bring down Big Smoke.

[@austinbrown7574]

I could see an alternative that after GSF falls apart, Ryder just becomes a drug addict, similar to Big Bear, and you have to get him clean and back in GSF when you come back to Los Santos.

[@Viro_durden]

better one wouldve been him getting killed when we save sweet

[@cataclysm7256]

That wasn't it, widely known MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) had a falling out or something with Rockstar and left GTA SA halfway so they killed the character off by putting him on CJ's crosshair, evidenced by the reused audio on the Pier mission.

[@Tommy-sr7hl]

@@cataclysm7256 lmao did u even watch the video?

[@cataclysm7256]

@@Tommy-sr7hl lmao yes, do you believe the earth is flat if there's a video that says it but shows more evidence that says otherwise?

[@KIPPZY]

This is something that pisses me off to this day. Even during the introduction there was no signs of Ryder being involved he only knew what Smoke told him. All Ryder missions benefitted Grove Street as well. People also mistake Ryder being mean to CJ as hate. Not realizing Ryder only been upset and hurt CJ ran away from home. People seem to forget Ryder was CJ’s childhood friend. Rockstar forced Ryder into the “Green Sabre” mission cutscene, it made no sense. The whole shit with him hanging with T-Bone, Jizzy & Ballas made zero sense as well. Also MC Eiht, Ryder’s voice actor confirmed it was Rockstar who told him that’s all they wanted to do with his character.

[@Yvanehtnioj2000]

Facts. People love to bring up that clip of Smoke propositioning Ryder but Ryder doesn’t agree or disagree he just says “you can’t kill me”. Imo the devs used that to back up whatever way they decided to take Ryder; being a traitor to the Grove or being a traitor to Smoke and secretly getting info on him for Sweet. Also I too found it strange how downplayed CJ and Ryder’s history is despite it being brought up and how lackluster Ryder’s death was given how close him and CJ were in comparison to Smoke, who was Sweet’s peer not CJ’s.

[@Rad-Dude63andathird]

​@@Yvanehtnioj2000 That clip is also from The Introduction, which came out after San Andreas did.

[@BeerDone]

"You love givin' the homies a hard time." It's not just that Ryder's "hurt," it's described by CJ as his trait. He tends to be hard on people. He retorts with: "Just tryin' to keep my soldiers alive." It's his way of managing the gang, making sure everyone stays in line and doesn't drag the rest of the Family into trouble.

[@skatesuperbaby]

While Ryder's missions benefited Grove Street, their real purpose could be to to strengthen his own position in the gang, which would have made it easier to betray Sweet&Co when time came.

[@yuxomgaming9824]

He was always jealous of CJ. There was also hints about him being so full of himself. He did not like Sweet's leadership anymore as he's realizing he's "too intelligent" meaning he has high ego. Grove street was going down already, it was smoke who gave him the chance to be powerful

[@eldudemp6195]

Just a little bit of a reminder here: The GTA SA Introduction was made AFTER the game's development, not before it. Everything that happens in the introduction is based on the game's script after it was finished, and that script changed A LOT.

[@samreagan6292]

People always say Ryder left the grove “out of nowhere” or “for mo reason” when the police and smoke where in an international drug smuggling ring. Like Walter white levels of cash. That’s why Ryder left, for the unbelievable piles of cash. It’s not spelled out in the game, but is it unreasonable to believe an international drug ring in Los Angeles would be making massive piles of cash?

[@Finn_the_Cat]

It's not unbelievable It's just poorly implemented given how the green sabre mission only mentions smoke not Ryder even though it should be a bigger deal as I believe ryder is a childhood friend of CJ

[@AJ_hwd954]

It’s not Ryder betraying Grove Street what upset me, it’s how it was handled in the story, he’s glossed over. And this is suppose to be CJs childhood friend?

[@jinthekingkazama1159]

10:25 Not sure if you know this already, but the Introduction was released after the game.

[@kiki88561]

Yeeeaahhh... not the smoking gun he thought it would be. Ryder's role as an antagonist in this game is unnatural no matter which way you put it. By the end It's like he never existed.

[@jinthekingkazama1159]

@@kiki88561 So true.

[@Alexgodofwar5662]

The introduction was released along side the game, not after, The introduction came with the game version that has the hot coffee patch (and later versions except for HD and definitive editions)

[@jinthekingkazama1159]

@@Alexgodofwar5662 Okay. Well, even if it is true, I can't deny that I feel like Ryder staying with Grove Street Families is more fitting.

[@Snaq_Paq]

MC Eiht quitting early was one of those GTA myths I actually believed up to this point. Crazy the things you learn. FR tho, I don't think Ryder should've betrayed Grove Street. Even if the original beta scenes were what Rockstar ran with, his betrayal still would've felt undercooked. I think that's why the myth persisted so long.

[@royalfun1031]

Hmm

[@MarlonPlays808]

5:57 The train made the police car breackdance in the air 💀💀💀

[@nxmx6ix]

HEY CJ, FOLLOW THAT DAMN TRAIN!

[@elcreyo]

it cracks me up how the rotation is suddenly stopped just for the car to blow up

[@mikearce7827]

They should of kept Ryder as a good guy fo Gstreet sure he was an asshole but not a Traitor IMO

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

Exactly.......

[@planescaped]

I always felt Ryder's betrayal came out of no where and kind of hurt, whereas Big Smoke was shady from the start when you went back and thought about it. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was a change they made later to wrap up his story.

[@at0micwerew0lf]

Ive seen a handful of videos on this topic...but this makes the most sense, especially with the beta and voice clips.

[@mrfalzar9]

About House Party mission and this one being "First sign of Ryder betrayal" Someone actually did logical POV of Ryder going around whole Grove street and gathering peoples, it would simply take him TOO much time to gather any peoples from outside and come back for massive shooting. It was simply too short event for Ryder, CJ and rest became such good squad they were able to squash ballas without outside help when Ryder thought they would need outside back up.

[@the_sam_strong]

The first hint of his betrayal was in Robbing Uncle Sam whe Ryder tells CJ "You don't know what is going on"

[@backthefuckupoffme9767]

@@the_sam_strong Honestly, Ryder could have meant anything by that line.

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

@@the_sam_strong Lmao, That Has Nothing To Do With The Betrayal.....😂😂😂😂

[@the_sam_strong]

​@@kanethesevenfootmonster868 "whatever you say fool... You don't know what's going on" "what that means?" "We got the guns, you are no gangsta homie" Notice how Ryder is quick to change the course of the discussion after CJ asks him what he meant with his previous sentence.

[@santiagosuarezzambrano9384]

Thing is that this is a videogame, from a logical POV it would realistically take Ryder too much time to gather the homies, but if we use that same realistic approach then Big Smoke not shooting at the Ballas in Drive-Thru isn't really a sign of his betrayal since realistically no one would start eating everyone's food while the car he's at is getting shot at.

[@jayperez019]

Ryder’s betrayal was never supposed to happen but changes was made during making of the game

[@flames9313]

In the Mission "Pier 69", CJ and Cesar are only going to take down The Loco Syndicate in which they have to kill Mike Toreno, Jizzy (Already dead) and T-Bone. There isn't any sign show that they will kill Ryder there, maybe Rockstar just add him in this mission.

[@TheShocker650]

Ryder is mentioned multiple times by CJ in the mission Pier 69. The whole message in Jizzy's phone was about the Syndicate meeting with Ryder and the Ballas.

[@Zackytroll]

​@@TheShocker650 they retake it again after MC Eight out from the project way long before the game was release (cmiiw)

[@TheShocker650]

@@Zackytroll The entire thing that he outed from the project is a big BS. Can you back up your claim with any evidence? The dude literally said in a response to a private message to someone that that's all they needed him to say.

[@JaysasterGaming]

I believe Ryder and Big Smoke talked in the car before coming back to pick up CJ and Sweet. He either convinced him, or blackmailed him

[@JaysasterGaming]

The reuniting the families mission.

[@nxmx6ix]

Yeah, they both knew CJ would get out safe with Sweet. Their error was to underestimate CJ in the later part of the story.

[@Arkiasis]

That makes a lot of sense. He was loyal to Grove but eventually Smoke blackmailed him. His choice was either to die under the intersection in Green Sabre like Sweet and the other OGs were supposed to or run away and make some money. Grove Street was already gonna be dead after that mission.

[@97_Fredo]

something many has overlooked or never thought about is that Officer Hernandez could possibly have became an Ally to CJ. He took a bullet for CJ in mission High Noon.

[@FranklinClinton6903]

Hernandez is a good cop he told cesar about smoke and tenpenny meeting

[@minh3264]

okay what does this has anything to do with ryder?

[@royalfun1031]

​@@FranklinClinton6903wut

[@ScudX]

Great job stitching the cut beta lines and footage together to make your case. I think you're right (I watched the full intro movie myself back when the game was brand new so I was always suspicious of him on my first playthrough), but now the mystery remains as to why Rockstar wanted to bother to make the changes over what they originally had for the same Ryder outcome? Every MC Eiht interview bits I've seen suggested that he actually wanted to record more lines if he could.

[@nxmx6ix]

It was all about money, the power. MC Eiht wanted to record more lines but Rockstar wasn't willing to put more money in his pocket. And then it all came out like this.

[@Hell_O7]

Maybe those missions are too rough? Just guesses though, I don't think we can really tell what's going on until someone actually involved in the production say more.

[@Sh0tgunJust1ce]

Don't think this busts anything, nothing here is conclusive. It was always assumed the dialogue for CJ concerning Ryder was created after MC Eiht left the project. Swapping Ryder and T-Bone's deaths in the final game was probably done because there was more of a connection to Ryder's character than T-Bone;s. As for the Introduction cutscene between Ryder and Smoke, I don't think that's enough evidence to disprove the strange details surrounding how Ryder was handled.

[@elchomper.1063]

Talking about a topic i like and a voice that doesn't make me want to put a power drill in my ear is a instant sub

[@CaptainPrincess]

I feel like ryders betrayal was meant to be a "happens later" type thing like it seems they certainly did plan to have him be a betrayer, but I think maybe the original plan was for ryder to be legit to START with and then get convinced or pressed into betraying the gang later, and then rockstar changed the timeline to make it so rider and smoke were in deep from the start, which would explain why he was crammed into scenes that dont acknowledge him, but the beta still having the mission where you kill him it would kinda explain why ryder talks about the green saber but still gets shut down why he shoots at the ballas and everything like maybe hes in the process of getting pressed into the betrayal but isnt about it yet

[@PetrKL21]

I think Rockstar changed their mind about Ryder during development and his betrayal was not always meant to happen. It just doesn't fit the same way it does with Smoke.

[@Paur]

Yea, Smoke has hints pointing this out, and after finding out the betrayal, it's mentioned several times by CJ. Ryder, it's sorta like when he's not on screen (and even when he is some times), he doesn't exist or isn't part of the betrayal.

[@DanielEleveld]

In the “reuniting the families” intro, the camera lingers on Ryder who is the last one to leave the house. He feigns like he is trying to snuff his blunt but once the rest of the guys are out of the house he turns. When I saw that in my first playthrough I thought “Dang he’s calling Tenpenny!” and sure enough the meet gets raided

[@JonJon-co3zj]

Og loc was more loyal than smoke

[@FlavoredGenuine]

Jeffrey was still responsible for Mad Dogg’s downward spiral into drug addiction after the loss of his manager and almost killing himself until CJ caught him in a pick up truck.

[@paulkennethsantos7722]

But still, he makes Big Smoke his manager. So he stabs both CJ and Sweet at the back.

[@royalfun1031]

​@@paulkennethsantos7722he dumb

[@Everyonesbuddy829]

That's because Rockstar never intended to make Ryder an antagonist his voice actor & Rockstar had issues so he had to leave them that's why Ryder's death is treated as nothing & forgetable because they rushed it because they need to get rid of his character.

[@moved8416]

True but Ryders voice actor never had an issue with rockstar

[@OptimalMario]

Go watch 10:00

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

@@OptimalMario That Doesn't Prove Shit dude, The Script Still Doesn't Make ANY Sense!!!!!🤷‍♂🤷‍♂

[@the_sam_strong]

I think Ryder was always supposed to be an antagonist but just like OG Loc he was only supposed to betray Grove street when the Ballas took over after the green sabre mission, because he became a crackhead, that's why CJ only mentions seeing Smoke during that mission. Carl would only find out about Ryder's betrayal during Photo Opportunity because up to the Green sabre mission he was actually loyal to the Groves. But I think Rockstar thought that the players would have wondered what had happened to Ryder during the missions in between the green sabre and photo opportunity, so they decided to include him in the green sabre cutscene just so even if he isn't acknowledged by Carl, the player would know Ryder was a traitor all along just like Smoke

[@noaharkadedelgado]

@@kanethesevenfootmonster868it’s a 2004 video game.

[@austinclements8010]

my head canon is that ryder was initially on our side and loyal, but sometime during our first rise to power (probably after the mission where we rob the train for tenpenny) big smoke brings him in, and it just becomes about kicking CJ and Sweet out

[@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக்]

Until we get our hands on the older beta versions(the Orange Groove version) of SA,this will always remain a mystery. God i hate NDA that goes on for decades, the devs should have the right to openly talk about the beta builds to the fans. The rushed way Ryder's death is handled just makes it come off as weird because Smoke's death had such a much more impactful death scene. Also, does anyone else find it weird that CJ doesn't kill OGLoc even though he betrayed the GSF??

[@AllBlackAirpods]

Wow I just got back from the gym, what a treat

[@DrModGTA]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it

[@August_rains]

Something that always gets overlooked is how Ryder was put directly in the line of fire of the Ballas in the drive-thru mission by sitting right next to CJ. So he has a reason to be pissed off with Big Smoke given the plan put his whole life on the line

[@ProxyWasTaken]

Given that all resources, voice lines and animations were used in different part of the game and all the implementations as of Ryder in the game of being a traitor are easy to produce, I am gonna call it that Ryder wasn't in development intended to betray, or more likely, Rockstar had no idea what to do with Ryder. It's the easiest route of all worlds.

[@jutajazz]

I think it could've been done better, some things got rushed and mixed up in the final release when they were scrapping and re-adding things, but it always made sense to me that Ryder was a traitor. Big Smoke at least acted a friend right, Ryder never did, he was always out for himself. Good vid dude, keep it up

[@alanscott6005]

he was not out for himself and he was acting like a friend in his own just because he was not throwing compliments doesn't mean anything, maybe it's rare in modern times but back then all bros were rude and negative with each other but in the end of the day they were still bros that was part of friendship

[@royalfun1031]

​@@alanscott6005ye

[@MattC78]

Look at Ryder that snake hanging out with the Ballas like they was life long pals.

[@nxmx6ix]

Lol😂

[@tavellclinton9256]

What if Big Smoke blackmailed Ryder into betraying Grove Street Families?

[@charlottenanasikakwenin2024]

Yes that what happened in the storyline dummy,did you play the game say

[@yuxomgaming9824]

No need for that as Ryder was becoming a crackhead like Big Bear and he's realizing Grove is losing power and he deserves better

[@RNvideosedits]

Watch GTA San Andreas the Introduction, Ryder accepted the Big Smoke' Proposal with no hesitation.

[@KofteG61]

⁠@@RNvideoseditsthat was made after the game

[@RNvideosedits]

@@KofteG61 I know, but Its the Canon so is what really matters here.

[@user-df8zb1qf6v]

I played this game 10 years ago, this has to be the most legendary game for people to still poke around

[@TheKarlyzz]

1:35 he was high, so it's realistic, alcoholics, weedheads, addicts in general usually slip something up unintentionally because they either care for the one they talk to, or they're just high.

[@jetrosison375]

Ryder is an og, rockstar have plans for him but because of their terrible pay to the va and va quitting. They have to salvage him which made his part doesn't make sense after the newer mission. Sweet and Ryder's mission to CJ benefits the gang but Smoke's mission only benefits to himself and the tenpenny

[@SafeAtSpeed]

MC eiht never quit. He literally still works with rockstar.

[@DemoderDen2027]

@@SafeAtSpeed proof?

[@moved8416]

This isn’t true lol. Ryders voice actor never had a problem with rockstar about pay or anything.

[@goproskiing_kid619]

man if only the definitive edition changed ryder from betraying grove street, and we got ai voice technology nowadays for god sakes, they can easily make voice lines now if they cant get mc eiht back

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

@@goproskiing_kid619 Real.......

[@luckyenforcer]

Ryder using CJ to strengthen Grove Street in the hopes of him dying while doing so is something that most people don't point out.

[@SammEater]

Even if he was always meant to be a traitor, they rushed that arc.

[@smarttravel3144]

Something I only realized now is that Smoke moved out of Grove thanks to getting money from his aunt, but in another mission (The Running Man?) he refers to marijuana as his cousin. So his "aunt" might also be the big man's euphemism for getting money from drug trade.

[@DagurasuSk]

Ryder voice actor quited the project, he had a lot of musical productions going on. Main fact about the unnatural change of script.

[@Max-zv8hm]

The police car got hit by the train and flipped into the air and you shot it. Sick

[@crisstoff89]

What I actually believe is that there was suppose to be more missions where Smoke turns Ryder over , there must have been problems with the missions and it would glitch so they were removed or there wasnt enough time to put the extra ones where we see Ryder betraying Goove Street. It makes much better sense then Rockstar just making Ryder betray out of nowhere.

[@JonJon-co3zj]

They realised ryder would be a bigger plot twist than big smoke because ppl would be emotionally affected more and it did cuz ryder was like the real G u look up 2

[@oski4022]

the introduction cutscene was made later the game released, so it basically doesn't count when it comes to ryder's character. the original game obviously proves that he wasn't intended to be a traitor and Rockstar did not knew what to do with him after CJ leaves LS.

[@Buzterer]

That line in the opening ("Bullets cant stop me") would be better set up for rider to be killed on the railling than in the boat

[@danielkelly3065]

Finally, some legit journalism. This is the type of deep-dive society has been missing for quite some time. Hard-hitting stuff wow

[@pavlecvetanovic]

There is a Catalyst mission too, where Tenpenny and Pulaski arrived and to his house and tell them about the train.

[@TheRav3n]

MC Eiht confirmed this. I think the only reason we think it was supposed to happen is cause of the Pier 69 script. It sounded pasted together

[@borandalgc3194]

this video has some really deep analysis man good job

[@Rj-pw7zs]

Ryder was also a drug addict. I personally don't think he was originally working with/for Big Smoke. I think he got hooked on crack and Smoke used that to control him same way B--Dup did with Big Bear.

[@MrPaull0324]

You KNOW a game is awesome when discussions about certain parts of it are still prevalent 20 years later. Happy anniversary San Andreas 🎉

[@rexmortuorum414]

Ryder was just added as a antagonist after the story was done cuz mc eight got knocked and they couldn't wait for him same thing happened with lamar and Franklin

[@F40NJ2CAT]

Been replaying San Andreas while watching this vids

[@DrModGTA]

That's awesome!!

[@adrianshephardOP4]

SA introduction was made after the game was released or should I say after Ryder's voice actor left. I'm sure they used some of his old recorded generic voices in other versions of the game and added it into the introduction to make him look he was always a traitor with Big Smoke (Most of people think Ryder has new voices in the introduction but no). Ryder was never supposed to betray grove street, they rewritted his storyline at the last second.

[@xwaresharex]

6:58 cool steering wheel bro

[@TayRich93]

So mf epic that alot of us still enjoy this gem 20 years later 😌🔥 I'm glad the gta classic trilogy got a proper visual overhaul on mobile, sucha breeze to play fasho

[@Tiger4ever89]

for me personally, the most annoyed character was Sweet.. even in the end he doubts CJ as him doing anything good.. like he blames CJ after literally saving the whole neighborhood... i think Smoke managed to Betray them bcuz of Smoke's huge Ego and Pride

[@alvarojcamposg]

All these vids influenced me to replay San Andres and im loving every minute all over again.

[@massmanpro]

So you're saying two things could be true? 1. MC Eiht did quit during production 2. Ryder was always going to betray the Grove anyway

[@mr.andrew7820]

MC eith never quit in production,there is even his music in Gta 5 and in twitter he said that he left after Rockstar told him that his voice work was already done

[@DrModGTA]

Mc Eight claims he didn't leave BUT we don't know for sure, I don't see why he would lie about that detail. However, it appears Ryder was always intended to betray Grove Street and because Rockstar revealed him as a traitor earlier than planned it made the reveal seem odd without CJ mentioning Ryders name until later into the games plot. However, we are not 100% certain as MC Eight could easily have just said that or been difficult to work with and Rockstar have never commented on the matter. However, MC Eight did record the soundtrack for GTA 5 so it appears they are on good terms.

[@kingkoop2281]

So the real reason is the writers fucked up. Kinda funny

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

@@DrModGTA Ryder Was NOT Supossed To Betrayel CJ, His Voice Actor 100% Had Problems With Rockstar.......

[@andrewlloydpeterson]

​@@kanethesevenfootmonster868proof?

[@santiagosuarezzambrano9384]

Thinking about it lately I figured that while Ryder wasn't originally supposed to betray CJ he was probably not going to make it after The Green Sabre, he was likely going to die in the ambush while Sweet was only shot, that would have made things even sadder for CJ and would explain why that was all Rockstar asked MC Eiht to do. Considering that San Andreas' story is about CJ getting out of the ghetto mentality and seeing that the world is bigger than his hood having Ryder stick around with CJ for the rest of the story would've probably diminished CJ's character development, plus Cesar was already there to be CJ's closest friend.

[@mcdevady92]

Even if MC Eiht said that Rockstar wanted no more voice acting in San Andreas from him, the story still not make sense in this way. I had like 15 playthroughs from this game and even you said in the video that this don't make sense. Why would Ryder betray the Familes? And my biggest quesion is...why would Ryder die like that? No death Cutscene , no final words and no mention of him after the Yay Ka Boom Boom intro cutscene. Ceaser lied to CJ about Ryder wanted to bang Kendl. Kendl would tell about this to Sweet as well and Sweet would kick Ryder's ass or worst. Rocktar made Ryder dirty, because they don't know what to do with him after the Green Sabre mission or other unknow reason which we don't know about. I think Ryder should have died in the Green Sabre mission like a Hero, or he should have a bigger role in the story as CJ's close friend along with Ceser. Or if we want to stick to Ryder being a traitor, a Death Cutscene and some explaination would been good. For exemple after CJ shot Ryder, Ryder would have told CJ, that Smoke blackmailed him and forced him to work for him. Just like what Smoke did with the other grove street members. CJ would have felt guilty by killing Ryder and Ryder would die to his shot wounds in CJ's arms. This would gave CJ more hate towards Smoke and more motivation to hunt him down and destroy his crack emprie. We have the beta dialogues and most likely CJ would find out Ryder's betrayal in the Photo Opportunity as you said. But this don't mean that they not changed Photo Opportunity before the beta version of the mission which we know about. Most of the times there is a alpha version, the beta version (which is going to change over time) and in the end the final version. The orignal script/story of San Andreas would been different for sure. I think the correct way to describe this, is Ryder is a traitor in final game and in the end of the development Rockstar already decided that. But originally Ryder was not meant to be a traitor. Most of things which are indicate Ryder's betrayal could been easilly added to game after they decided that Ryder is going to be a traitor. For exemple the "You don't know what's going on!" line. The Introduction was made after the game was ready.

[@Passive-_-]

I dont know why but whenever i watch deep dive video's i always finish half asleep

[@freeland8112]

I don´t agree, even tho it seems kinda accurate. Still Ryder´s character was suppose to have a different role than betraying families, it would make more sense for him to be good guy at the end

[@فيصلالحمداني-ظ7ف]

I love your vids

[@DrModGTA]

Thank you

[@dalejhunter1]

I always found that one break in mission with Ryder funny - the failure I mean - since it seems more like a comedy routine you'd see in movies. A guy breaks in, another waits as the driver, the mission fails, and the driver just drives off. It's a dickish thing to do, but it is still funny.

[@Kacpa2]

Pier 69 doesnt even have new lines, its just spliced existing lines

[@rainbowjeremy-t3v]

no lol. wrong opinion

[@kurtroy31]

not an opinion​@@rainbowjeremy-t3v

[@rainbowjeremy-t3v]

@@kurtroy31 what? lol his opinion is wrong and you proof it

[@Frank_West]

6:28 What song is that? Awesome video, by the way. Ryder ain't no buster.

[@lcriveralcr1627]

If rockstar made a gta stories of San Andreas and it would led up to gta 5 and basically play out what happen after San Andreas would be dope like how the ballas took over what actually happen to cj and cesar and all them . They left us all guessing . Would be a dope game .

[@andrejakostic1342]

im sad we didn t get cutscene where ryder and cj talked afret mission where we killed him...

[@KAUZE-qj1di]

5:50 I think in the heat of the moment that tap is like c'mon hurry up Especially with somebody you've known your whole life

[@MoshJunkie426]

Ill be honest gta san andreas is an absolute classic and its probably the biggest game of my childhood, but it really lost steam toward the end

[@BillehBobJoe]

i know photo oppurtunity is a mission that went through changes. but i like the idea that CJ while spying on smoke and ryder takes the time to scream across the street an insult

[@Streifen1911]

Will never believe Ryder was meant to betray us. Everything after Caesar calls you Ryder feels like a random NPC. No new lines. Just nothing. Wish he stayed until the very end.

[@ulumanlavre9410]

Do the Ryder mission benefit Groove Street though? You steal the weapons from all those places, but they never get to Groove Street, like in Home Invasion, where "LB" takes the weapons, but they are never used by Groove members, and the Ballas are really well equipped at the end of the game, so were you just stealing weapons for Smokes guards at his crack house?

[@mitcheltheman1366]

Actually, pay attention after the RUS mission. The GSF members now carry tech 9s and are much more useful in gang wars.

[@vasilvasilev6661]

2:12 "We have to chase the BOWLAS" 😂😂😂😂

[@JonJon-co3zj]

Tbh I feel like as you play the game u kinda naturally take more of a liking to ryder than even sweet and big smoke, because he funny but not og loc funny, so rockstar maybe felt like it would affect u as the player alot more to see ryder who always gave u a hard time for being a real G and running out was a snitch all along tbh ryder betrayal hurts more than smoke, cuz ryder was like the G u look up 2 in the hood

[@JoshuaLodge2701]

You should do a video of mary beth maybell and the rose radio station she tells hidden Stories of her life and multiple husbands and what happens to them

[@leandromiguel4481]

And some of Ryder missions was actually helping out Grove Street , for example robbing Uncle Sam

[@Fabboi_unl]

Caesar is my alltime favorite homie of the whole series. Such an awesomely written good guy imo

[@xxlCortez]

I did wonder why his lines on the boat felt like Ryder was forcing it out. With him dying makes more sense.

[@ErminDedicNT]

They should have killed off the character under the Mulholland Intersection, that would have done him justice since they lost the voice actor. OR they could have signed a different voice actor and just re-do the lines... But one of the main flaws of Rockstar has always been that they are cheap a-holes

[@kanethesevenfootmonster868]

True, I Agree!!💯💯💯💯💯

[@grammysworld5449]

Then stop playing their games

[@genericoeimprovisado1287]

One thing to note is that Ryder is the one to point the Ballas' car passing by while Big Smoke stays silent and alerting everyone of the drive by. Ryder ruined the drive by in some way, so he was still with GSF at some point

[@gamerfourlife64]

The clear give was as you said his missions helped the grove helped the family where as Big smokes missions are only good for him but then again Ryder was clearly threatened by Smoke "either way do this or i do you in"

[@debilman9065]

Well did we ever actually see him using those guns to help the grove street families or was he only strenghening specific homies in the gang who were only loyal to Smoke?

[@snajp5134]

@@debilman9065 you mean Ryder? After all Ryder missions are done, Grove Street Famillies gang members in freeroam starts to spawn with Tec-9 as well instead of just 9mm or hands/bottles/cigars. So yeah, we do see him using those guns to help gsf

[@SonicEXEProductions]

It actually wasn’t meant to happen, it was only when they thought of the loco syndicate that they told the va that he done enough lines and used Ryder as a villain

[@TheBaioken]

this was a thing that came out of the blue for me, and lacked some commentary by the characters, always felt weird.

[@Mr.purple65]

Ryder wasn't supposed to betray his gang. Big Smoke was meant to be the only traitor, but Rockstar Games changed their mind. They probably wanted Ryder to die in that shootout with the police.

[@Amsosorryscotty]

1:18 during the uh mission. ( this is my favorite part of the video) Big smoke: all ya had to do. Was read the damn script Dr mod.

[@wimvaughdan7032]

I still don't understand why Ryder appears in the scene with the green sabre. They added him in later, which is a bit of extra added work, to create a weird plothole? It feels like without him in that scene, CJ's reaction in both that cutscene and the cutscene in the later mission where he noticed Ryders betrayal would make more sense. Am I missing something? I still don't get why they decided to add him in that cutscene last minute.

[@thalesh680]

We don't have concrete answers. Rockstar dropped the ball or something.

[@ScarredCore1]

Ryder’s betrayal was 100% unplanned, because until the mission where we kill Ryder, everybody’s talking about Tenpenny, Pulaski and Smoke. Nobody mentions Ryder in any form

[@angelsinthere]

I always felt that Rider should have died in the Green Sabre mission during the fight with the Ballas that way CJ revenge on Big Smoke had more wait to it

[@TheMelMan]

For me, I always remembered after the Home Invasion mission, CJ told Ryder "One day you'll wish you never pissed me off." And I felt like this was foreshadowing a future fallout so I wasn't surprised it happened. Plus Ryder looked like Eazy-E so I always thought he was the bad guy cause I grew up on Dr Dre and Ice Cube.

[@udontknowhoiambutiknowhereuliv]

Obviously ryder was a traitor. The dude was high on pcp all the time. A drug addict always has a “high” potential to screw over or betray anyone, specifically friends and family. Especially on a drug like pcp. CJ knows. That’s why when he first saw that ryder was guilty(and every time he sees him after that) he keeps calling him a sherm head, cause he knows that its most likely the reason he ended up compromised and became a 🫄🏿. C ya round! Like a 🍩 Carl!👮🏿‍♂️

[@ItsSayrn]

There's another theory that it was meant to happen Ryder was meant to happen but the va quit before they did more voice lines for it there's another KZbinr who was talking about how Ryder was high on “wet” so much that it made him change so much