Why You Need Cam Chain Tensioners Harley | Remove Cam Chain Tensioners | Kevin Baxter | Pro Twin Per

Do you know why you need cam chain tensioners in your Harley? Have you read that you can remove cam chain tensioners completely? Ever wonder how Harley Cam Chain Tensioners work? In this video I explain why you need cam chain tensioners, why you should not remove your cam chain tensioners and how chain tensioners work.
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[@robertbumgardner5549]

Man, the knowledge this guy has is literally priceless.

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you sir...very kind.

[@eb1941]

By far the spring loaded tensioners have been a big disappointment for me. I am an engineer and understand there are design and manufacturing mishaps, but the strength of a company is shown if they stand by their product. Harley gets a grade of "F" as they abandoned their customers concerning spring loaded cam chain tensioners. I have two HDs that I will need to repair this design miss. This is not how a company builds brand loyalty. Great video on this topic. I have seen a few videos claiming the tensioners are not needed. Never made sense to me, but your explanation presents the facts clearly.

[@MassholeCritic]

It’s actually the design and cut of the chain that eats through the shoe. When you do your hydraulic upgrade, check out the difference between the new and old chains. When I did my 02 Train build at 36k, bought it with 32k, found my tensioner and spring in pieces on the belly of the chest with pieces of shoe floating around. Been lucky, 8k later with a full build and no problems but they absolutely need to be checked, as you know.

[@TyScott85]

I’ve ridden Harley’s for 15+ years but I’ve been a car guy my whole life and know much more about cars than bikes. This is why I love your channel. You understand that if someone doesn’t know about bikes they probably know about cars. And you make that connection. Very well done. Cheers

[@upsidedowndog1256]

I can't imagine why anybody would WANT to try this, even before this video. Nice info.

[@asoshkin]

Same people who ride with car tires

[@rusnsc7622]

Thanks Kevin, got an education tonight. Looking forward to seeing more of the twin cam build.

[@KevinBaxter]

Right on! thank you

[@darrinclem2502]

Being an auto mechanic for 33 years, I agree with u 100%.

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you sir....nobody wants a sloppy chain. LOL

[@momule55]

Outstanding explanation Kevin. My independent repair guy suggests that I just replace the spring loaded tensioners because that is what the Harley Gods put in it. Nothing lasts forever and I think I'm going to agree with him on this solution just because a bike should be true to it's origins. Not to mention that it's gonna run for another 25k miles and do it that way reliably. I like things original even if they aren't perfect.

[@ernestknight275]

Congratulations on explaining various topics in a manner the layman can understand. Since my partial disability, your channel has been the most interesting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time.

[@davidcoyote8921]

...Wonderful listening to someone who knows what they're talking about...

[@jactilm8687]

I added the option Cam Chain Tensioner to my chevy v6 truck motor when i replaced the oil pan gasket, it improved the performance.

[@K9RickRet]

Can’t say enough how happy I am that I found your channel! Thank you!

[@johnroethel5527]

Hey Kevin they say you can't fix stupid, but up here in Beaver Valley I have found you can " Tune " it with a 2 X 4! It requires 1 RPM of the Main Shaft to deliver the required " Shock " load to " time " the " Teeth " of the " Stupid " Also can be preformed Hot or Cold!

[@danjensen100]

Kevin your knowledge and professionalism are impressive. I purchased my first Harley in May (14 SGS) and my wife and I are hooked, we ride everywhere. I am addicted to your channel and appreciate your insight.

[@Wooley689]

Good info, glad I voted to have you go over this. All engines are not the same and we should not think one type of fix or "trick" is good for all makes of engines. Engineers put items in for a purpose.

[@westcoast3595]

Perfectly explained. I would add. Wether we like it or not. Engineers spent a great deal of time designing this machine. I am a proponent if gear drives in a twin cam. I currently ride a fatvo. Really love it. It has both worlds. Block Head and Fat Head. The extra cooling is nice.

[@porkchopspapi5757]

What's a fathead?

[@dannpd1955]

Ill never regret spending the money with yall for the S&S gear drive and for the answers you provided to the few technical questions when I installed it. You guys are the best.

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you very much sir!

[@charlesdavis9755]

Very good explanation. I can make it simple. If HD thought they could save money by leaving them out they would. Since they put them there they are necessary.

[@jefflagrimas6205]

Thank you for clearing that up Kevin! You do such a concise and clear job on explaining things. I’m an ASE Master Tech and Ford Master Tech with a lot of training and to hear you explain things you rank at the top of the list as a teacher/professor!! Once again, thank you!

[@KevinBaxter]

I appreciate that! Thank you very much Jeff!

[@tcb8295]

Thanks Kevin for the clarification and explanation on this subject. I suffered the effects of a stretched timing chain on my 69 Torino. 351W . .. started about every other crank until one day it just wouldn't crank. Replaced stretched chain, ran great again. Looking forward to more videos on the builds.

[@KevinBaxter]

Yes sir...youre welcome! 69 Torino...nice ride!

[@tcb8295]

@@KevinBaxter Yep, it was. Wish I still had that car. It was the Talledaga fastback bodystyle, not many of those around these days.

[@jimjones9142]

YOU SAID THE TENSIONERS ABSORB VIBRATION/ PREASURE?? THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU PUT A GEAR TO GEAR SYSTEM IN?

[@stephenbirch9436]

Thank you for your wealth of knowledge. I often wonder what some people think. Great work.👍 Changed out my spring tensioners to hydraulic on 99 RK year's ago.

[@KevinBaxter]

Youre welcome. thanks!

[@raycollington4310]

Thank you Kevin for again sharing your treasure trove of Harley knowledge. This technical stuff is great but I still see questions about these engines still make me think that HD has failed to develop the design as much as they could have and this is a missed opportunity.

[@paulbuckberry7683]

Very interesting video Kevin. I bought an 05 Softail Deluxe in 2017, then I started to hear all the horror stories about cam chain tensioners and engine self destruction, so I decided to install the Screaming Eagle, hydraulic tensioner upgrade. I posted videos on the ‘You Tube’, not about how to do it, because it’s well covered by loads of people far cleverer than myself, but about the experience of a bloke in his shed and how I tackled it. Some of the comments I got back on those videos were venomous, but I do recall one particular guy stating that the first thing he’d done when he had bought a ‘Twin Cam’ was junk the tensioners. I thought it a rather bold and stupid statement myself! Great videos by the way……….have just subscribed. PB, England

[@JonV-r7q]

Great information Kevin, Thank you. Really looking forward to the rest of the V twin build.

[@KevinBaxter]

You and me both! Thank you sir.

[@aaroncox3340]

That had never ever crossed my mind Kev, why would someone even do it??? Beats me. 😄🤟👍 good clear up.

[@fperez2287]

great answer, thanks, ive read about people removing their tensioners. looks like a gear set to me is my option 2016 FLHTK

[@daleezzell1385]

I have a 68 Satelite Im Pro Streeting. Its a lifelong job!

[@robbaumgartner2755]

👍 Solved This issue with S&S Gear Drive and Cam Replacements.

[@raymondwinans978]

I seen multiple videos on this subject. Thanks for clearing this up

[@KevinBaxter]

Glad it was helpful!

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

Kevin your 🧠 was on 🔥 today! Always learn something from you. Grateful 🙏

[@KevinBaxter]

Thanks man! Hope youre well.

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

@@KevinBaxter yes sir! Thanks for checking in my man. Staying busy and outta trouble here. Keeping the wife as happy as I can through all her treatments. Still finding a little time to wrench too! I hope life is treating you well brother. Thank you for all you do

[@davidknows3320]

I saw this video coming a mile away. Thank you Kevin......I'm keeping my tensioners. Lol

[@KevinBaxter]

Right on!

[@clownpocket]

Great info. You past videos convinced me to put in gear drive cams. Glad I did.

[@garyclay7140]

What years did Twin Cam engines have issues with the Primary drive chain tensioner.? They would ratchet up way to tight. Nice Class on Cam Chain Tensioner. Thank you from Gary, Cummins guy.

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

I believe the 06 Dynas were the first to be blessed with the auto primary chain tensioner design. All other models followed in 07. I believe The MoCo kept it going all the way thru 2016, until the MY 2017 M8s came out which had a different design. I'm a fan of the Southern Oregon Hot Bikes and Baker adjusters. Far better designs imho.

[@KevinBaxter]

Hey Gary. G Dubb beat me to this one.

[@garyclay7140]

@@KevinBaxter Thank you !

[@cj8172]

Awesome. Subscribed all the way over here in New Zealand. Thanks for the great videos

[@albertkinney8021]

Be great to have a chain tensioner sprocket instead of a friction pad thank goodness for s&s gear drive six cylinder motors had gear drive but a V 8 had a chain but you could upgrade to a gear drive in your V 8 . Guess it depends on how long you want to keep it and what kind of performance you are looking for. The average life span of the tensioner pad and chain 40,000 miles. Great video

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I'm holding out for someone to make a set of cams that are gears behind the cam plate and a chain on the outer side. That would tolerate some runout and leave only 1 easily accessible tensoner shoe.

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

Very interesting thought

[@KevinBaxter]

There is a couple issues with this. remember...with a chain, cams would turn in same direction. then the gear on the back would reverse the rotation for the front cam. not only would the cams have to be ground opposite of each other, depending on lobe design, this could create clearance issues between the lobes as they rotate.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

@@KevinBaxter yeah, new cams would have to be ground and you bring up a good point about lobe interference. I guess that would depend on where the timing of the lobes end up in that scenario.

[@dannylacroix9033]

So true to your working greatness .love your work .

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you so much 😀

[@peterwgoertzen2472]

Went to hydraulic on my 06 ultra 2 years ago. Hope to be able to do the cams and then go gear drive someday. Just need to find a way to reload the wallet.

[@64Goef]

As always, very informative and very well explained. 👍😀

[@KevinBaxter]

Glad you liked it! thanks!

[@brucelund5788]

I had recently heard a fellow say that he had been told by several people that they had removed the tensioners, not that I was really considering it, but like you said it is a very attractive idea. I have to inspect mine before riding in the spring so still don't know exactly what i will be doing, sure wish you weren't so far away, good job on the explanation, thanks

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you Bruce. Yeah...i'd stay away from this one. LOL

[@ozziejim8472]

You ask a question... you better be prepared for the answer. Nice one kev👍

[@Khoury_15sg]

As always another great video, i have to call you about cams when it's time for the upgrade

[@KevinBaxter]

Please do. Thank you sir.

[@thejerseyj9422]

Excellent commentary on the need for a cam chain tensioner. I have a question about the gear system. Do you lose the shock absorption value of a chain and tensioner? It seems to me you would.

[@KevinBaxter]

thats why backlash is so important.

[@eb1941]

Just a follow-up thought. When I checked my tensioners, the spring seems to create high load to the pad and subsequent force to the chain. Can the spring be modified to reduce the force and have the pad apply less load to the chain and thus possibly allow for more pad life?

[@KevinBaxter]

I'm not aware of anyone, or any product, that has done what you describe. I once toyed with the idea of applying heat to the spring to reduce its tension...but it would have to have been a controlled experiment with lots of testing.

[@roadking155]

I believe everything you said Kevin, but what about gear drives? Wouldn't they be affected by engine shock loads too?

[@rickbush2914]

A friend (who also enjoys your videos) were discussing the depth of your knowledge on engines generally. May I ask.... are you an Automotive Engineer?

[@geraldlowery4378]

Thanks for your time and great information. Your Georgia neighbor 👍🏻

[@KevinBaxter]

Thanks for watching!

[@kennethanderson1685]

Love to learn about all things Harley. Thank you Sir.

[@KevinBaxter]

My pleasure! thank you.

[@danielbates4137]

Another great video glad ur back. Could you plz make a how to video installing a electronic ignition into a fuel injected evo preferably a roadking lol I'm confused as to how to wire it I have a powerhouse (same as ultima &dynatech) need a little help😁👍

[@KevinBaxter]

Great suggestion! It may be a while before i can do that. it should have come with a wiring diagram of sorts.

[@twowheelboomer]

Time for me to change mine; 30445 miles. Is this a job a lay person, albeit with perfect reading skills and modest experience, perform successfully? You mentioned hydraulic? Is that the way to go? The dealership will replace with another pair of stock unless I tell them otherwise, no?

[@James-fk2sb]

Alittle off topic sorry. I’m planning on adding tw122 woods cams to a stock 2010 fatboy lo 96 twin cam. Does Harley Davidson 2010 crank able to handle this ? Or would you just build the whole engine. Starting with crank ? My plan was to add woods cams, SS camplate, SS cam tensioners lifter rods, SS oil pump, man of war compensator, Oregon bike primary chain tensioner. Just want to make sure I’m going the right direction wanting to get rid of most of HD weak links. Please any input would be great since you know better. Thank you Kevin !!!

[@bodeine454]

Thanks Kevin!

[@Dr.More_Malpractice]

Excellent video as usual. I would like to ask if you have a video to resolve oil buildup in the air filter due to the relief tube hole near the intake throttle body entry. Harley says this is normal but my thinking is this condition would be due to excessive oil buildup in the rocker area not being able to bleed back to the bottom end or pressure buildup within the engine itself that is not able to be relieved. Riding a 2009 103 Trike. Thanks again for the great videos. Canada

[@KevinBaxter]

a bit of oil misting isnt uncommon on long rides. it helps to vent externally. having the crank vent into the intake places it in a vacuum environment...sucking more in.

[@Dr.More_Malpractice]

@@KevinBaxterAfter about 1500 km or so drips begin off the bottom of the filter cover. Would a redirection pipe closer to the throttle body entry be a good idea? Thanks

[@troytopinka5120]

As long as we r on the subject. How important is the off set between the cam gear and the pinion gear on a M8. Harley says .009 is the max. What happens if ur over that? And how exactly do u measures that. I put a straight edge across the gears but depending on how far or close to the teeth I was, I got Different readings. What happens if ur over the .009, what kind of havoc could the cause.

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

Use a straight edge and feeler gauge underneath it bud. If you're over 10 thousandths the chain and/or gears will be noisy and will wear out quickly, might even leave u stranded. .

[@KevinBaxter]

G Dubb below is exactly correct. Thanks!

[@troytopinka5120]

Thank u so much for ur reply. That answered part of my question. My chain is not noisy. Should the straight edge be on the teeth or closer in to the shaft, where the gear starts to curve upwards

[@chrismorgan7020]

Does this same thing apply to using a compensator eliminator on a twin cam? So long as the correct tensioner is used?

[@badfrankleatherworks2658]

Yeah, i won't be taking that risk. Lol. Another great video, thanks Kevin.

[@americanveteranaceshigh9051]

do you recommend using the Baker type drive train chain tensioner vis the HD OEM spring loaded?

[@joanstehlik235]

How much should this job run at dealer?

[@jameslanning8405]

Hello Kevin. Hey, I got a real ignorant question... Because I'm very ignorant about HDs, including the one I own. But, When replacing the tensioners, I would have to remove the cam plate, and the cams, along with the plate... When replacing tensioners, would I also need to replace cam bearings on the inside? Or do the cams slip in and out without doing anything to the bearings? And, WERE can I get an O ring kit, with all the O rings used in an HD? I did buy a box of standard sized O rings, (Harbor Freight), but they don't seem to match the ones used in the engine of the HD. Like oil pump O rings, and so on... Can't you buy those sizes in a box of them, or do you have to buy then solely from an HD dealership, or HD supplier?

[@KevinBaxter]

i would stick with orings specifically for the application. oring kits for hd can be had pretty cheap. if you need some, give us a call and i'll drop them in an envelope for you. i would recommend upgrading inner cam bearings to torrington style while you are in there. B148 for 06 and back TC, B168 for 06dyna and 07 later.

[@jameslanning8405]

@@KevinBaxter Okay... So where would I get the bearing extraction and press tool, to remove the old cam bearings and press in the new ones? And just what does that thing cost? That seems to be a trend with HD... You need specialty tools, and parts. I haven't had the cam chest open, since I got the bike back last August. I'd love to replace tensioners with gear driven cams. But then, I'd need the gage and setup to measure the crank runout. How much does that cost? Where do I get all this stuff? Yeah, I could probably get O rings from the dealership. But I'm trying to stay away from them...

[@jimweagant8920]

Interesting and good video

[@toddwingo2700]

Mr Baxter, another idiot here, because of runout or not knowing whether it’s within spec. I would be interested in gear drive on the cams and chain drive from the crank. Has this been done or is it attainable. I think it would be very easy to keep up with the one tensioner from now own and be able to order everything I need In one hit. 2014 limited with a 103. I’m very interested in a set of 570 cams. Any help or advice will be appreciated. Love the program keep them coming Sir.

[@KevinBaxter]

Hello sir. I would suggest opening up the cam chest first, measure that run out, then order all your parts. with a 2014 model, theres a 50/50 chance on being able to go gear. You can get a cheap dial indicator and mag base off amazon or from harbor freight. it will be good enough for your use.

[@Jim_Berry]

Hey Kevin, I’ve noticed you have the H-D PHD Service tech patch on your shirt. You must have worked at a HD dealership. Are you still affiliated with a dealer or is that just from past experience?

[@wb4514]

What would you estimate your labor cost to be to do a complete camchest upgrade ? (Just labor, no parts) Thanks !

[@KevinBaxter]

For quotes please email [e-mail].

[@wb4514]

@@KevinBaxter Thank you, I will do that right now.

[@MarkAmazingo]

Great video! Thanks.

[@jondoe8816]

Perfect example is a shovel/evo with the wrong colour cam gear it ticks as it rolls over gets worse as it revs. Ow yeh. Chevs fords you can hear a wip on number 1 when old

[@johnnyceeuontheroad.2389]

Thanks Homie I see all yr videos and learn a lot, I have a 2018 street glide, 23,000 miles I ride 2up every year and long long tours once a year, can I install a gear cam, or should I go with chain, I'm looking at S&S 465 kit?? Thanks Big Dawg, Wat up from the 818SFV...

[@KevinBaxter]

if the crank has .003 or less run out, you cant go wrong with gear....if its in the budget.

[@KevinBaxter]

give us a call 6782269651 and we can put together an entire kit for you. but id measure that runout first.

[@Yamahog]

Hi Kevin, just looking at the two crank shafts and looking at the counter-balancing lobes... Are they sized just for the rotating free mass of the mechanical components or are they sized for the free components plus the force of the power and exhaust strokes. I'm thinking rotating mass + power and exhaust loading. Can you clarify ? ( I'm asking as some V8's shake worse than a V tin and yet some ... the vibration is almost non existent )... Thanks Ciao.

[@Yamahog]

Just to add, Any V twin probably has a 270 degree firing order , so I get the V twin shake...My Bolt does the same as a Harley......but on a V6 or V8.... wasn't sure of the balancing Principle with stock components.

[@KevinBaxter]

Great question. An HD twin is unique in it's firing order due to a single crank pin and 45 degree...which is what gives it a distinct sound. This plays a big part in the shake of course... A piston fires. The next piston fires at 315 degrees. There is a 405-degree gap. A piston fires. The next piston fires at 315 degrees. There is a 405-degree gap and on and on.

[@BloodPlusPwn]

Sheesh, you're like a living dictionary. How I long to have such knowledge. Or at least work with a guy who does hah! Thanks for the video, I was actually thinking about this the other day when I saw it on the forums. It sounded kind of absurd to me, if only because of the expansion of the chain alone. I've heard conflicting reports, is it possible to convert a 96ci Twin Cam to gear drive? I've heard runout is a big issue.

[@surferwlatina]

Didn’t trust my runout, glad I switched to hydrologic tensioner

[@skippynj1979]

Doh i missed it live

[@KevinBaxter]

but you were on all of our minds. LOL.

[@marceltheriault9222]

👍

[@EazyDuz18]

Metric bike engines die from mileage long before you need to worry about weak tensioners, let that sibk in

[@MassholeCritic]

The CBR F4i’s were know for their failing noisy cam chain tensioners, even the first gen R6’s had timing chain adjustment intervals.

[@eddielangford57]

I enjoy y'all's video's. Life is Go.od

[@bigjohn2323]

this is what happens when car mechanics think they're bike mechanics.......... thank you Kevin

[@KevinBaxter]

agreed my friend. thank you John. Hope the knee is healing up well.

[@ToWin420JoeDirt]

Don’t think this video truly needed to be made but I guess if you have multiple people asking might as well help out a few from ruining their bikes.

[@glenmclendon9209]

Who the heck would take the tensioner out ?

[@knucklefist8535]

Another great video. Tension deniers are probably also darksiders. (It's a joke folks)

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

Best comment in the chain! Lol. 🤘

[@KevinBaxter]

That was my thought exactly.

[@thebobs9343]

Kevin, you are loaded with great stuff. However with every other youtube vid I watch, it's at 1.25 times speed. With your presentations, I have to watch it at normal speed - too much pertinent info. Wish you had some fast running graphics that would keep up with what you are putting out. You do need basic knowledge to understand.

[@jasonlarsen6353]

I like your videos but you should cut out reading from a script. Doesn’t sound natural, just spit it out like talking to one of your buddies

[@KevinBaxter]

Thanks for the critique. Actually...not reading from a script. When i do videos like this that are more on the technical side...trying to communicate the point as clearly as possible...i do speak differently. I try to leave zero margin for miscommunication. Other folks have said sometimes i sound like Captain Kirk. LOL.... and...that....doesnt bother me....too much. lol

[@MassholeCritic]

@@KevinBaxter lol, I can see it, never noticed it before but better looking Kevin 😎

[@valjatriogina228]

When Dumbos think, they are smarter than engineers😂 Harley would not have tensioners, if they were not neccesary. If it was the best technology, is another Story