Why You Should Move to Switzerland as a Software Developer

[@jeremiahreilly9739]

Raphael, a great presentation. Yes, Switzerland has an element of individualism. At the community and cantonal level, a better term would be *subsidiarity,* as opposed to the communitarianism of Germany (and many other European countries). This is called Kantönligeist. Sometimes it is maddening, but I love it. I am also an immigrant to Switzerland, but from the USA: My personal experience is that the quality of life, quality of services, quality of infrastructure are *much higher* in Switzerland. What you've discovered about income and expenses is called PPP, purchasing power parity, by economists. If the benefit of living in Switzerland is that a family could save CHF 100 more per month than they could save living in another country, over a 40 year working career, the savings would amount to CHF 632'000 and change. That is insanely valuable. Although as US citizens (living in Switzerland) we still pay significant taxes in the USA, we are able to save *much more* in Switzerland than in the USA. Our housing costs dropped from about CHF 5'000 per month to CHF 4'000 per month. Our health insurance and medical expenses decreased from about CHF 20'000 per year to about CHF 14'000 per year.

[@PeterListov]

I have been living in Switzerland for the past 7 years but plan to move out now as a software engineer. In general, I agree with all that the author said about the life quality in this country (except may be the food quality/price ratio, compared to neighbouring Italy and France). Perhaps, I would give a few thoughts for those who plan to come here and progress! as a software engineer (or make best of their CS degree). 1. Switzerland is a small country. Therefore, there is just not so many exciting places to work here. If you're not lucky/qualified to get into one of the American companies represented mostly in Zurich (Google/NVidia/Amazon/IBM/Apple/etc) or one the top research institutions (EPFL/ETHZ), you are likely to end up coding a coffee machine for Nestle, work for a bank or a small start-up. Also, many companies here try to outsource SWE to other countries with lesser cost of living. 2. Switzerland is not great in SWE. Switzerland excels in many industries, i.e. pharmacy / food / precise manufacturing / civil and mechanical engineering. However, it is not the place you think about when hearing about SWE. Try to think about global impactful software products/companies made in Switzerland, I know a few but it's much much fewer than in the US, Germany or UK, for instance. 3. Many industries are absent in Switzerland: automotive, robotics (despite having ETH), aerospace (despite having RUAG), etc. So if you plan to work in one of these industries, think twice. Otherwise, I totally recommend this country for work and life.

[@artemedutech]

Все чётко расписал братан

[@livb4139]

Where're you planning to move out to out of curiosity?

[@raghavrai123]

@@livb4139 Italy || France 😅

[@kirill4531]

What's the effective (say "actual") tax rate for a regular SE salary? And what is average SE salary in Switzerland?

[@lucerodj11]

thank you for being honest sir..

[@kevinl.9657]

Hypothetical scenario: Before Switzerland: Income: 30 Cost of Living: 10 Income after Cost of Living: 20 After Switzerland (double): Income: 60 Cost of Living: 20 Income after Cost of Living: 40 Even if both income and cost of living doubled, your income after cost of living will still be doubled. Thus, savings rate doesn't matter much as long as you save more (amount).

[@38countries]

True. The only flaw is that you won't be able to live with 20K in any part of Switzerland ;-)

[@graigan]

@@38countriesyou mean 20k per year, don’t you?

[@38countries]

@@graigan Yes, exactly. 20K p.a. means just under 1700 CHF per month. That will not be enough anywhere in Switzerland except maybe for a student who lives with their parents, does not pay rent, never gets sick, no kids, does not have to save for a house because they inherited one etc.

[@davidcalebpaterson7101]

I think it is a great country regardless of what kind of job you do. I do a bit of python programming myself and translation on the side, but I could perfectly do a cleaning job and still enjoy it when there's a reasonable income for the task, great working philosophy and quality of life all around.

[@38countries]

Love your attitude!

[@aliufemi]

Can you please share links for how to find tech jobs in Switzerland? Thanks.

[@mishkapanda93]

@@SandraWantsCoke most underrated comment

[@rkw2917]

I am (was) a software developer living in Switzerland for 30 years. Yes, the salaries are high and taxes quite low, but do not include health insurance or day care costs for children, which can be substantial for a family. If you are negociating to come here, multiply x2 what you thing you will need.

[@Rick-ng3lr]

Lol, so the mentioned benefit in this video isn’t applicable if you have a family with younger kids.

[@38countries]

You are perfectly right, RKW. Day care is expensive. But if you do the math right, it will pay off since the tax benefits you have in Switzerland are drastic over some other European countries. You can literally save thousands each month in the higher income bracket over Germany for example, freeing up money for day care. Keep in mind that I am also not saying that Switzerland is perfect for every case. There are many other beautiful and interesting countries in the world as well that can make sense for different people.

[@peterdawabi5676]

I also lived in Germany and live in Switzerland now. I like to live here. But I am also happy to visit Germany every time I go there. If you are undecided, go and visit both countries for several weeks to get your own impression.

[@38countries]

Yep, first hand on-site experience is always recommended. Give it at least a couple of weeks. In less than that your impression will always be distorted towards the positive or negative.

[@monicadesai7928]

Thanks for making video on this topic. Even I want to move to Switzerland and I am into IT as Data Scientist. More videos on how to find jobs from home-country or exact detailed steps for interview related videos will be helpful. Thanks.

[@38countries]

Hey Monica, have you checked out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXmnfWqFqLigqNU What else would you like to know in particular?

[@janalbertmorell7583]

Hi Raphael, very correct informations about the positives living in switzerland. You forgot to mention the sheer beauty of the swiss nature, purity of air and water, epic scenery, lush flora and fauna. You can go to Ticino , Como or Milan over the weekend or up the Alps for a Ski session, it is all very short distance. You are right in the middle of Europe, ideal location for travel abroad. There is a common sense for quality in every aspect of daily life, and swiss people take care about that with passion. I lived for 7 years in Zürich area and missing it very much after moving back to germany. I love switzerland.

[@38countries]

Thanks for that comment, Jan! I totally agree. Switzerland is really beautiful indeed! I think what you mentioned about being in the center of Europe can also be seen as a benefit in the cultural sense. You are basically forced to deal with 3-4 languages in one country preparing you quite well to travel to the neighboring countries and beyond (since French is spoken in so many countries in the world). I am curious to hear what made you move back to Germany in case you want to share it.

[@Atulwebdesigner]

Loved the video, Rpahael. The scenery in the background was awesome.

[@38countries]

Germany and Austria had higher inflation in recent years than Switzerland, so the difference is not as big anymore. But sure it's still around 30-40% difference.

[@PumpFix]

I think the biggest hurdle is the language. I'm currently learning French and I'll have to start learning Swiss German if I want to move to Switzerland. There are so many languages spoken there.

[@Alchemist_dream]

i have a same problem , English is already my second language and learning another language takes a lot of time ;(

[@elvirosukuzu6519]

so what, you learn them. You are smart!

[@IStMl]

they all speak English. You will mostly make international friends. Becoming friend with Swiss is long and hard.

[@PaulJaros]

I'm swiss. Most swiss will understand english. You don't need to learn swiss german (it's really hard too). Learning german will be enough. French is also good if you move to the french-speaking (west) part of switzerland. Most swiss learn french but really prefer english though.

[@Alchemist_dream]

@@PaulJaros Thanks for the info Paul :)

[@rodrigovaccari7547]

Moving there is my long term plan and dream. I'm also a developer but not educated as one, and am currently working on getting into university for a degree.

[@38countries]

Go for it and never give up.

[@rajama75788]

Thanks to make out of box topic cost of living & salary & savings for those who want to settle in Switzerland dream country for Asian. My childhood friend shifted to Switzerland last week as his son & daughter in law got the job . It's really pleasing to hear you more on food & politics in Switzerland and trains timing extra when you compare with Germany trains. Sound nice one request to you make one video giving with Switzerland Asian country comparision on the same thumbnail

[@38countries]

Hi Rajama! Yes, some videos on these topics are coming. Congrats to your in laws for landing the job in Switzerland, it is the start of an amazing journey and the dream for many. Do you have anything in mind to compare in particular between Switzerland and Asian countries (which countries are you thinking of?)?

[@incarnateTheGreat]

Thanks for making this video, Raphael! I've always wanted to visit Switzerland or perhaps spend a long period of time there one day. From the outside, it comes off as very limited and expensive, but your explanations seem to provide a different and possibly better way of thinking out the solution to what could work for people like myself. I am Canadian and have thought about living and working abroad for some time.

[@Steve-z8k5y]

You are Canadian but you support the Panathinaikos football club, my friends

[@38countries]

Expensive is relative. When I travel to North America, it feels expensive to me. And the same applies to London, Paris, Oslo, Stockholm, Reykjavik and many more. Countries where a decent beer costs 10 dollars or so in a bar are expensive to me. Nice places are and will always be expensive. The question is not how much it costs, the question is: What can be your personal bottom line. And that is not just the delta between income and taxes and cost of living but also personal happiness. I will admit that Switzerland was not quite as financially rewarding for me as I had hoped. But I still made more money vs. staying in Germany. And something more important happened: Firstly, I fled from collectivist Germany where everything has to be regulated by the central government in Berlin. Secondly, I was able to start horse back riding and traveling more in and out of Switzerland while working full time. This would have never worked in Germany for me like this. Whether you want to move to Switzerland or somewhere else, keep money in mind because it is important for everyone who is not a privatier yet, but also focus on what makes you personally happy.

[@incarnateTheGreat]

@@Steve-z8k5y ☘️☘️☘️

[@AshrafTarek]

I live in Switzerland for 13 years now. Moved also from Germany and was thrown from German school directly to the Swiss working world, so to speak. The taxes you pay here in contrast to German taxes are actually a joke. For other countries the contrast might not be that obvious. However, the amount of taxes, you pay, depends on your citizenship and residence permit. "Proper" swiss taxes are only paid if you have a settlement permit (C permit) or swiss citizenship where you file a tax return every year. Otherwise your employer deducts a so called "tax at source" from your salary. A note on the savings, you can gain: This works out very well, if you live alone and/or are not married and also have no children. Not married couples pay less taxes than married ones (same income). If you have very young children and you want them to go to the kindergarten 5 times a week, you can pump pretty much all your savings into the kindergarten. How much, depends heavily on the kindergarten. The amount varies between 500.- and almost 2'500.- a month. In this regard Switzerland is a very family unfriendly country. And also keep in mind that health insurance is much more expensive than in other european countries. If you chose a not 100% fitting insurance police for yourself (minimal monthly fee, but need for frequent doctor check ups) you might end up paying every year 2'500.- Travelling can get also very expensive. It sounds like a perfect country at first glance. It might very well be for many people. But please read the official info pages regarding taxes, insurance, travel, etc. so you don't end up in unfortunate situations, like I did, because I simply wasn't aware of this stuff. This is also true for many Swiss people, who grew up here, btw.

[@38countries]

Hey Trixt0r! Thanks for your explanations. A few things are not quite accurate though: The amount of taxes you pay is *independent* of your citizenship. Since 2021, you can and often should do an NOV, meaning you are taxed like any Swiss person, even with a B permit. It's mandatory for the Säule 3a deduction anyways. I wrote about this in more detail here: www.38countries.com/ch/tax-declarations-in-switzerland-for-expats Health insurance is quite expensive in some other European countries. I paid more for health insurance in Germany before moving to Switzerland which is surprising since Switzerland is generally a more expensive country. Some of my friends in Germany paid up to 700 EUR per month into the government plan. Paying 200-300 CHF per month for health insurance by contrast is a bargain. Many doctor visits can be combined with a visit to another European country since they are not an emergency. So you can combine exploring Europe with optimizing your health care cost. Travel is not super expensive either IMO. Flights from Zurich to USA or Asia are often less expensive than the same flight from Munich or Frankfurt due to different taxation of such flights. I agree with you that Switzerland is not perfect though and am thankful for your explanations. They show us that it is important to do the specific research and math in each individual case and that Switzerland is not the perfect country for everyone.

[@AshrafTarek]

@@38countries Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. Regarding travel I meant ticket prices for trains. If you don't have Halbtax or GA it can get pretty expensive. Everyone has a personal definition of expensive 😁 Have a nice day!

[@38countries]

​ @Yoda You are really misrepresenting facts here, Yoda. I am not rich, neither were my parents. I come from a lower middle class family and would not consider myself rich these days. Normal middle class people in Germany (somebody who makes net 40K or 50K a year is definitely not rich when rent alone is like 25K per year) pay hundreds of Euros each month into health insurance in Germany. And then not everything is covered. I was under the public plan in Germany and often had to pay extra for all sorts of things because they would not be covered under the public plan. I am by no means talking about plastic surgery or any of that stuff. Try to get simple braces as a teenager in Germany. Guess what? My parents had to pay about 1000 Euros extra and that was many years ago and it was not some fancy special solution. It was the normal ugly braces. Same applies if you go to a hospital and have a more serious thing. If you want proper care, everything costs extra. You often have to pay extra because again the public plan does not cover everything while you and your employer still pay so much into the system. "You probably also are restricted on which doctors you can visit if you need to" - again, a misrepresentation. Under the default plan you are not restricted in Switzerland.

[@kamertonaudiophileplayer847]

I worked there few years ago and can confirm your reasons.

[@38countries]

Thanks for sharing. I am curious: It sounds like you moved on. Would you mind sharing where and why?

[@kamertonaudiophileplayer847]

@@38countries My contract was expired and I found another position in US.

[@LuffyPapa227]

I really love this content ❤

[@38countries]

Glad you like it!

[@robertop699]

Great advice, thanks for sharing!

[@38countries]

Glad it was helpful!

[@samuelbackof]

Hi Raphael, I've been planning to move to Switzerland for almost a year now. I'm currently studying cyber security in Germany, and I was wondering if it's hard to get your first job in Switzerland straight after university, or would it be better to start the first job in your home country to gain some experience first?

[@38countries]

Hi Samuel Backof! I think it's a matter of taste. It may be a bit easier for you to get a job in Germany first, but financially it will probably not pay off in the long run to do so. Esp. if you already know that you want to live in Switzerland or at least try it out, I would not delay it and go for it straight away.

[@GoldDiscover333]

Hello, dear I'm a student of Automobile. Now I'm 2rd year but next year my automobile diploma will be completed ,bz Automobile and diesel technology diploma range is three year's. Just I want to say all who read this comment, I need job any country after completion my diploma. Starting sellry no matter but if you give me some training like 3month at least and give me visa then I'm agree for work. if work is contract base then also I'm agree. Kindly reply me { thanks for all }

[@jonastheultimate3952]

If you don't mind me asking, where can you study cyber security in Germany? I only found master degrees for cybersec.

[@nicoles_handle]

great video! im helping my friend do a write up on his future and all that so im really looking at options in europe, which would be a great improvement over where he is now.

[@38countries]

Best of luck! Feel free to share what you guys end up deciding on.

[@himawanthsomarowthu9897]

he is comparing Switzerland with Germany , imagine latin american or african or asian watching this😅

[@38countries]

Haha yes. Maybe I should try and do a video where I compare Switzerland to some non-European countries. It's a bit hard for me though since I have only traveled to Latin America and Asia so far. I guess it could try and compare Switzerland to the US since I actually lived there for a little bit when I was still studying.

[@himawanthsomarowthu9897]

@@38countries yeah Swiss to us comparison makes sense

[@victorbrittoferreira5206]

@@38countries Which country did you visit in Latin America?

[@CanRau]

Moved from Germany to Perú 😂

[@DanielFenandes]

First world problems

[@Jack-hk6kl]

You brought so many good points! Alas, I cannot do such thing bc the color of my skin would make me stand out. Makes me wanna cry sometimes to miss out on things like that

[@38countries]

We have people of all colors in Switzerland, so maybe you worry too much? I think on a European level there are worse countries in that regard. Switzerland has one of the highest percentages of foreign born population in Europe, higher than all of its neighbors.

[@HenrikVendelbo]

I would have agreed with you a year ago. I don’t think this true anymore. Salaries in other countries have gone up, and salaries here are not that impressive. Plus for any sort of job security you need to learn a high level of German. The hiring requirements are also quite pedantic, so you need to match the profile perfectly to get the job. It is a very different culture to many other places where you are expected to learn and adapt. Here you’re more like to be expected to know all you will ever need before applying for the job.

[@38countries]

You need to become an entrepreneur and solve problems for the whole world. Then your salary is not limited in the long run. Like every other country, Switzerland has its fair share of companies or roles where you can't grow much, personally and financially. But this is not a specifically Swiss problem. Beyond that, I am not even claiming Switzerland will be the perfect country for everyone, nor forever. There is a reason why my channel is called 38Countries.

[@eliza_armand]

Thank you for your amazing video! We're currently thinking of moving to Switzerland from Germany and considering all the factors incl prices, quality of living etc. So your video is very helpful. Could you confirm the prices for Kitas, are they really that insanely high?

[@38countries]

Yes, taking care of a child requires a lot of time if you do it yourself, so accordingly it will cost a lot of money for somebody else to take that task over from you. But the math is really simple here. The average salary in Zurich is around 8'500 CHF per month. Times two it's 17K per month or 204K p.a. gross salary per household. With that household income you can afford to pay around 3K p.m. for daycare, approx. 17% of your combined gross salary. It's kind of like a 17% tax to get free child care. If you do not meet those numbers, it makes more sense financially to not outsource child care and instead do it "inhouse".

[@ryanpaulfrancisco5125]

I'm in the Philippines right now and Switzerland is one of my countries looking to work and live there.

[@38countries]

Go for it and never give up.

[@Anton-hg2wv]

Very nice video, enjoyed it!

[@38countries]

Glad you enjoyed it, Anton! Let me know about any wishes for future video topics.

[@Souljacker7]

As a dev living in Brazil and making about 140k usd a year working for a US company, I'm mostly stuck here if I think only about savings. There's no way I'll be able to save more living in Europe. :(

[@Andrii87]

You are right. Unless you move to eastern europe, expenses are about the same or lower than in Brazil.

[@TheFeljoy]

Sounds like you already achieved a great ratio of income to cost of living. Or am I underestimating the costs of Brazil? Also us salaries quickly go beyond European salaries. Making more than 100k € as a dev in Germany is not easy for example.

[@38countries]

Well, maybe. But are you putting taxes into your equation as well? And of course, money is not the only factor. I am not an expert on Brazil, but I can say that there are a lot of Brazilians in Switzerland.

[@Souljacker7]

@@38countries I pay around 11% of income taxes. We, we are about everywhere 😆 I consider moving somewhere in Europe for the quality of living, though

[@Souljacker7]

@@victorbrittoferreira5206 MG. I'd never live in southern Brazil

[@CharlyAlemania]

how easy/difficult is it to find a junior developer job in Switzerland right after finishing an Ausbildung as a Anwendungsentwickler? :D

[@38countries]

Hi Charly, generally not so easy but depends on your specialization. Senior roles are much easier to get in Switzerland in general. But again, a junior in LLMs might have it easier than an expert in PHP.

[@lucianoseibel]

The individualism part is the best!

[@lucianoseibel]

@@johndutton349 I have to agree with you. Tks for reinforce me the point idea of what is being an colective prick ... 😉

[@38countries]

Glad you liked it :-)

[@lautarofigueroa]

Excelent video very informative

[@38countries]

Glad you liked it

[@madsonmac]

Hi Raphael, thanks for making this video! I wonder how hard it is to get a work visa to Switzerland. Have a wonderful day!

[@38countries]

Depends on your citizenship. For EU/EFTA it's automatic. For other citizens, it's much harder. You'd need to be a specialist, manager or so to get a visa sponsored. Then again many software devs count as such specialists because the Swiss market is a bit dried out in some areas.

[@marcin3136]

And private security will be multiplied (compound interest). And additionally, a rich and wise country is a multiplication of options/ possibilities/ development/ etc. Switzerland is another galaxy in the middle of Europe :)))

[@38countries]

Absolutely! When are you making the move?

[@marcin3136]

@@38countries I've already been to Switzerland (mutual love :D:D:D They've been calling me for 2 years to come back; good and wise people). When I find a wife, I'll think about it... ;) But in short- Switzerland is a wonderful country (beautiful/ honest/ wise (great science/ uni)/ rich/ etc.); my second home (maybe it will become my first ;) MfG

[@MrSaemichlaus]

Not only are half the trains in Germany not on time, but those that are cancelled don't even count as late!

[@38countries]

Haha yes, that is unfortunately true. I sincerely hope that my former home country Germany can fix this though some day.

[@ppiriou]

I would move to Switzerland in a heartbeat because of your cheese! 😋

[@38countries]

What's holding you back?

[@joseluizdurigon8893]

Can wait to do that. By 2026 i'll finish my grad here in Brazil. By 2028 or 29 I hope I have enough experience in order to get hired by a swiss company. And of course, doing that holding a italian citizenship 🙏 and fluent in german. By the way, what do you think about network engineer jobs over there? I kinda like them because the subjects are so hard and require complex certifications that i think people might get away because it's more difficult than developing some App. Otherwise, I'm having android App development this semester and i find it sooooo cool that i have searched some mobile dev jobs and they pay really good too!

[@38countries]

Can’t really judge how complex network engineering is vs mobile app development because I know too little about the former. But generally the more complex and advanced the better. Switzerland is optimal for really advanced and complex jobs while some simpler things often get outsourced to other countries. So keep going and specializing and keep in mind that you can always start remote before moving to Switzerland.

[@Jeffersonprg]

Vai dar certo mano, se quiser tenta vir pra Portugal no primeiro ano e depois vai pra suiça, eu vou fazer isso, Suiça ou EUA, em PT eu já tô!

[@victorbrittoferreira5206]

interesting, brazilians thinking about swiss. Is this a pattern? Tamo junto!

[@victorbrittoferreira5206]

@@Jeffersonprg ta como dev jefferson?

[@RejuuComputer]

thanks, very helpful

[@38countries]

You're welcome!

[@docaedani]

Can you make a detailed video about retirement in Switzerland ?

[@38countries]

Yes, will try. The topic is very big though and has many subjective factors. Anything you are particularly interested in?

[@denys2698]

Hi, after completing a Master's in Germany (in parallel working at DFKI), would you recommend starting a Junior Developer journey in Germany first or in Switzerland?

[@38countries]

From a financial perspective I probably makes more sense to go to Switzerland straight away as soon as you have a job offer. In case you want to work a bit longer where you currently are to finish an important milestone, it might be better for your career to first stay there for a while to finish whatever you are busy with even if it will lead to less money. But then again don't wait too long or otherwise the move will never happen.

[@FlanderDev]

What to keep in mind when working for Switzerland from another country and still wanting to make a plus,?

[@38countries]

Can you elaborate on that question a bit, please?

[@alanwebdev]

Hi Raphael, very informative video! I'm a web and mobile developer from Bosnia. I have a little over 1 year of working experience. I mostly developed in React Native, but I also worked with Angular/Typescript. What are the chances of moving to Switzerland in such a situation? On the other hand, what is the chance of a remote position for a Swiss software company? P.S. Ich habe auch sehr gute Deutschkenntnisse.

[@Adam-nw1vy]

I have a similar questions. Almost 2 years of experience. Hope someone chimes in and offers some advice.

[@alanwebdev]

Any words on this?

[@AshrafTarek]

Angular is very popular in the German speaking part of the country. But many companies are also searching for React, Vue or plain JS developers.

[@AshrafTarek]

After Covid most companies offer remote work/home office, because they were forced to offer their employees such an option. I have colleagues at work, who don't live in Switzerland, but are 100% involved in the daily business of the company.

[@AshrafTarek]

@Korra Norg Yes, why not. Spring boot is also in high demand.

[@dzurfluh2156]

After living in California for a long time and moving back to Switzerland I would say food quality is mixed. You can buy good groceries but you can almost not get decent tomatoes in Switzerland compared to CA, if you have the means. No doubt, bread is better in Switzerland. But the quality and the creativity of the average, not cheap, restaurants in Switzerland does leave a lot do be desired for in my opinion. Might be different if you come from Germany.

[@38countries]

Interesting viewpoint, thanks!

[@365tage9]

Background is so beautiful - where is it actually?

[@38countries]

Canton of Zug

[@alicioromoli2570]

Hi Raphael, I’m from Brazil living in UK, the salaries here for software developer are low and the taxes are high, left me almost nothing to save due to the cost of living. How hard do you think to get a remote job in Switzerland with only english? I’m EU national so It won’t need any visa sponsorship. Thanks for the content, very rich in information and details!

[@38countries]

Hi Alicio! Great question. The best is always trying. I actually recommend to generally be careful with software dev jobs that require German in any case since these companies tend to be a bit more traditional and you can't do the cool stuff in traditional companies. But I am sure somebody would disagree on this and say "oh no no, we need to stick to the German language for another million years". Your best bet is probably with startups and simply applying can never hurt, even with bigger companies. They might interview and accept you even though they had something different in mind. I am planning to build a group of mobile devs (iOS and Android) who want to work remotely for Swiss companies or maybe even collaborate with myself on some projects. If this is interesting to you, please sign up for the "How To Move to Switzerland" beta or my Facebook group: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland facebook.com/groups/38countries/

[@alicioromoli2570]

Thanks Raphael, that’s very helpful. I see what you meant about that, that’s happens everywhere, unfortunately traditional companies tend to be narrow minded and stick to ice age ways. I’ve applied to some startups already and some of them have contacted me for initials interviews this week, super excited 😃 Thanks for the invitation, I’ve sent the request already.

[@38countries]

​@@alicioromoli2570 Yes, with corporates and startups it's always a difficult struggle. Startups on the one hand don't have too much money and offer very little job security. Corporates on the other hand often have less interesting tasks for you and sometimes can't accommodate you because of all sorts of rules. So you typically need to find some middle ground and I recommend to talk to both groups but also to medium sized companies who are sometimes the best of both worlds. Never forget that the best jobs/projects typically come where you don't expect them while very promising ones often turn sour.

[@38countries]

Hey Alicio! I recently wrote an article about job platforms: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland Would be curious to hear if this helps you to find a fully remote job in Switzerland. Please let me know about any additional questions on that topic.

[@abd1428]

I would like to go to it I am a student in SA in CS and that looks amazing

[@38countries]

If you can dream it, you can do it! Be aware that Switzerland has income tax, different than Saudia Arabia.

[@cyberthugFi]

The last topic touched im, im moving

[@Omer23007]

How do you recommend do it ? I would love to do it! Can you give me some tips ?

[@38countries]

Yes, I am writing a book about it: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland

[@rushangjoshi]

Hello Raphael, I am Devops engineer with 7 years of experience, I am also Canadian citizen. Can you please guide me?

[@38countries]

Sure, what would you like to know first?

[@rushangjoshi]

@@38countries how is Switzerland for Devops engineers opportunity wise? What is the process of moving there?

[@joegoldberg1543]

Is Canada not good currently for Devops engineers ?.

[@bm2085]

VAT is Switzerland: 2.5%-7.7% (according to Google) VAT in my country: 27%...

[@38countries]

Yes, VAT is also lower in Switzerland than in all of Europe that I can think of.

[@tripnils7535]

Don't forget investing. We don't pay taxes on capital gains, only dividends are taxed as income.

[@38countries]

Very good point. This makes saving over time a bit easier. In most European countries you are taxed on price gains over investments, in Switzerland you typically are not as an individual.

[@xMegaPT]

Hi Raphael , thank you so much for creating this video , your content is always so informative , I'm from portugal and I am still ending my computer science degree , and I'm very interested to move to Switzerland , do you think not knowing german is a big barrier to find a job as software developer? Keep up the great work!

[@38countries]

Thanks Marcelo, glad to hear that! I think you can certainly get started in Switzerland without German. It's even hard for most Germans because Swiss German is so different from "normal" German. A lot of expats don't learn German for a few years. I do recommend to put in the effort though once you have arrived. Switzerland has a bit of an issue of integrating people. If you don't speak the local language it's near impossible to make local friends, you would end up mainly with other expats. Which is probably still not too bad since there are so many in Zürich, Zug, Geneva or Basel, but you miss out on a lot of the culture and local events. Depending on how much you focus on it, you could become fluent within a year once you have arrived. Switzerland is generally popular among the Portuguese as an immigration country.

[@xMegaPT]

​@@38countriesHey thanks for the help , yeah definitely very popular choice among the portuguese , I was thinking about to start learn german but thanks to your guidance I will focus more on improving my skills as software developer

[@38countries]

Hey @@xMegaPT ! This article that I wrote a while ago about the language topic might be interesting to you: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german

[@xMegaPT]

@@38countries Hi , Raphael I'm definitly going to check , thank you for being considerate.

[@thatoutsider]

I mean the background is a reason enough of why to move there

[@mafi8919]

Looks like my back door, Is it Baar, ZG?

[@38countries]

Yes it's that area

[@lagrima7980]

I live close to Stuttgart and work as a Software Engineer and make 180k Euros gross a year and live in a debt-free self owned apartment. I dont think I can save more money in a month by moving to Switzerland ? I really would need to earn smt like 250k CHF annual to make it for me financally worthwhile but this is quite difficult to achieve. I dont want to grind leetcode to get into Google Zurich or Meta after already having a million net worth already. All other Swiss companies do not seem to cross 200k CHF annual gross line for software developers and that amount I can already make in cheap Germany. Any advice?

[@38countries]

Not possible to say in general. On the hand, you already have a very high salary for German standards. It is also not really possible to say whether you could have a higher income in e.g. Zurich vs Stuttgart just from moving without knowing more about your particular role. It might be higher in Zurich, but it could even be lower because sometimes that particular skill set is highly in demand in your current city Stuttgart but not in Zurich. Generally in your level of income and also net worth, it is more interesting to save on taxes than having a higher salary. You could hypothetically pay much less income tax and capital gains tax (since in CH there are no capital gains taxes on typical private investments within certain limits) therefore improving your annual savings bottom line even if your gross salary stays the same and your cost of living goes up. Tax savings can sometimes overcompensate higher cost of living between "cheaper" countries and Switzerland, effectively making Switzerland the cheaper country. If you are interested, this might be a case for a 1:1 consultation with me, let me know. The information contained herein is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal, tax or immigration advice. We recommend consulting with a qualified professional for guidance specific to your situation. Viewers should seek professional advice before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information presented. 38Countries is not liable for any losses or damages arising from the use of this channel or the information presented. By accessing and using the information presented on this channel, you acknowledge and agree to this disclaimer.

[@DigitalNoomad]

But american salaries are the same as swiss one according to google, am I missing something here?

[@38countries]

That is roughly correct. Life expectancy and health care are better in Switzerland though. And so is the cheese, haha ;-)

[@darkcoder5799]

Hi! In which kind of field are you working as a software developer and which field of IT could you recommend to be in?. Do you think worth it still from now on working as a software developer because of Artificial Inteligence (AI)?. Do you thing would there be a replacement of this kind of jobs?. Thank you very much and greetings from German!

[@38countries]

Hi Dark Coder! I am mainly a mobile dev myself at the moment. I think AI will make software devs even more important, because we are the ones who build, maintain and control AI. Especially since AI will replace some jobs, it will become even more important to be able to work with AI, understand how it works, how to turn it off in case we go all Skynet / "Control". So I am afraid we will be the ones replacing many others which means we need to rethink many things so that not 80% of the world gets left behind.

[@darkcoder5799]

@@38countries thx!

[@mrrnygma]

Can I mixe with other people in English language.I mean with native people,who live in switzerland.And There's also question like,Should i learn germany or french to find a job ?

[@38countries]

Yes, you can network with people using English only in Zurich. But I do not recommend it in the long run, since you will be really limited in who you can talk to. Also since English is a just a fork of German, why not learn the other language as well? Check out this video as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4jUeXiapM2Ed68

[@SauravTiru]

Moving is one thing, can you give us sources on how to apply at tech jobs in Switzerland?

[@38countries]

Hi Saurav! Have you tried out my suggestions in www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland ? Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.

[@sixscriptsunder]

long story short, i'm portuguese, my gf is from a village in zurich, we live in london and been together for 8 years now. we plan on moving to either zug or zurich (she has not decided yet) at the end of this year. My German is bellow A level, how difficult do you reckon that it will be for me to continue working as full stack eng ? I suppose that my question is regarding if it would be easy to find work speaking in english for the time being

[@38countries]

Hi SixScriptsUnder! My article can probably answer that question: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german. And I will also release a video on that topic in a few days.

[@38countries]

So I released a video recently on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4jUeXiapM2Ed68 Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.

[@rkucbel1]

Lol. I live in Slovakia working as a developer for a German company. And we make half of what they make in Germany - And I think I have it pretty good. But here we also pay only 0.40eur for beer :) But as a German are you not basically a local in Switzerland?

[@38countries]

Hi @rkucbel! Certainly nothing wrong if you are happy where you are right now :-) (Un)fortunately, Germans are not locals in Switzerland because the culture and politics is very different between Switzerland and Germany and so is the language. Germans typically do not understand Swiss German. If Switzerland and Germany were the same it would not have made any sense for me to move to Switzerland in the first place. Regarding the financial discussion you were alluding to: Imagine you'd work a couple of years in Switzerland to save lots of money and then you go back to Slovakia. You can probably buy a nice house or good part of it with the savings you accumulated. I really liked Bratislava btw where I visited last year!

[@totfosk]

Thanks master!

[@38countries]

You're welcome!

[@erik7726]

Switzerland is indeed a great country. The biggest downside IMHO is the astronomical house prices in e.g. Zürich canton. Owning your own house is one of the most important things for financial freedom and quality of life.

[@vincentschulz9355]

Since the savings rate is much a factor higher it might make sense to work in switzerland for some years and pay rent and with your savings you can buy a house in your home country like Germany

[@erik7726]

@@vincentschulz9355 Yes, good point. Or buying a house outside Zrh canton somewhere where you get more value for money, but still in Switzerland.

[@igorpupkinable]

In Switzerland you will have everything you need, but you will own nothing.

[@38countries]

Don't buy a house in Zürich then. Switzerland has 25 more cantons some of which have significantly lower house prices. I made another video about this btw.

[@38countries]

Correct, our generation won't stay in the same country their whole lives anyways. Even in Switzerland you can become a Swiss citizen after 10-12 years in case your previous passport is not so valuable. And then you could move on to another country if you can't find an affordable house in Switzerland. Nothing wrong with that IMO, there is a country for every year/decade of your life.

[@john_salt]

good video!

[@38countries]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@luxusAI]

i don't agree with the food part.. maybe cantines are much bettter then in germany.. but the restaurant quality is not that great.. and strangely u don't go into the bad stuff at all.. socially its really hard to find friends, even talk to people compare to the neighbour that u will get to know people in the city or in a bar is nearly impossible.. and takes month to even get to know your co-workers

[@38countries]

Yeah don't try the bar thing. Go to meetup.com and find a suitable meetup to go hiking, do sports etc. with people. Or Facebook groups. Or join a club. I have not had issues so far.

[@SonicFictionTV]

It's difficult for people who don't have European or Swiss citizenship to find a job in Switzerland. For example, as someone who lives in Serbia, in order to get a job as a frontend developer, I have to wait until all the candidates from Switzerland and the European Union have been considered, and only then, if there is no one who is a good fit, can I get the job, which is unlikely. However, I love Switzerland, I have friends there, I visited as a tourist last year and the year before, and maybe I'll go there for a vacation again this year.

[@38countries]

The best part is you don't need a visa if you work entirely remotely for a Swiss company. Other than that, you are correct, getting a work permit / visa for Switzerland is drastically more difficult if you are not an EU/EFTA citizen. I have to say though that putting in the paperwork for a non-EU/EFTA work permit is easier than most people think. You just have to be a rare specialist which as a dev you sometimes are.

[@elvirosukuzu6519]

How do I do it?

[@elvirosukuzu6519]

Understood. I have already started both languages. next step how do I get a job, how to contact the companies? any website or any hints. I have to make both languages fluent. For me Switzerland will be the perfect country!

[@38countries]

Have you tried out my suggestions in www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland ? Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.

[@codelinx]

This sounds nice.

[@38countries]

Glad you liked it :-)

[@drippyash7376]

Grüezi, tolles video.

[@38countries]

Schön, dass es dir gefallen hat, Drippy Ash! Lass es mich gerne wissen, wenn du Themenwünsche für zukünftige Videos hast.

[@lucaslusi3973]

Hi raphael, Im currently living in turkey and im a university student and learning frontend.. would it be possible to find a remote software engineer internship during my university year with no experience, were i would work for an international company but from my hometown turkey?

[@38countries]

Hi Lucas! This is probably possible but I would generally not recommend to do a fully remote internship. It's more exciting and will give you more learning potential to do an internship combined with cultural immersion, so you'd need to be in the same country more or less. I have never really looked into internships in Switzerland, but I would just give it a try. There is enough of a shortage of talent in software engineering in general, so some company might be able to sponsor a visa. Or you could of course start with another European country, e.g. one of Switzerland's neighbors.

[@ivanzq21]

nice video Raphael, what about buying a house? I heard that it is too expensive buying house there. Even many local people prefer to buy a house in neighbor countries. What do you think about it?

[@38countries]

Yes, houses are expensive in a few parts of Switzerland, but not everywhere. My advice is always: Don't just move to Zürich or Geneva because everyone else does. Check out my other video on that topic: Why finding a place to live in Switzerland is so difficult: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rarKpZeVlJZkmdU And my blog article: Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat: www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva

[@ivanzq21]

@@38countries Hi Raphael, yes, thanks for the reply and for the advice. I read your blog. It's pretty interesting, thanks. I will take that as very good advance. Cheers, Ivan.

[@MurangShaBu_MahalNaBiGas]

Does this also apply to cloud engineers? Or Linux engineers?

[@38countries]

Amazon hires cloud people in Switzerland as do a few others.

[@benelansari7228]

hi :) please please I need your answer.. Now I'm in London and I'm learrning development as self taught. I'd like too move to switzerland to work as developer in a year. Can I ask you please if there is any possibility to find a job there, if i have no degree in computer and if I dont speake German or france? Which programming languagges are most in demand? I learned forntend: HTML CSS JAVASCRIPT and I'm moving to REACT and then I'm gonna do a bootcamp in london for software engeneering using PYTHON SQL... I speak Italian English and arabic. thank you so much

[@38countries]

Really depends on your skill. Without a degree it can be difficult unless you are incredibly good esp if you are not an EU citizen. It’s possible if you specialize and become an expert.

[@benelansari7228]

@@38countries thank you so much Yes I’m Italian so hopefully that will help

[@38countries]

@@benelansari7228 An Italian passport will definitely help you since you won't need a visa that way.

[@ivanalvarezlopez7532]

It surprised me that you are telling that trains being not on time is unreliability. Here in Spanish we have to wish for public transport just being.

[@38countries]

OK, but Spain is not big about trains. It's as if you moved to Spain to discover that after all the wine and the food were terrible.

[@RicardoSilva-hk2er]

Great video, I am a Portuguese Junior developer. How easy it is to get a job if you don't know German or French?

[@38countries]

I would not worry too much about German or French in the beginning, you can get started with English and then learn German once here. I made a video about this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4jUeXiapM2Ed68 And a blog post: www.38countries.com/ch/swiss-german Work on becoming a senior though. Junior expats sometimes have it a bit hard to find a job in Switzerland.

[@RicardoSilva-hk2er]

@@38countries 😃 I did not think you would respond, thank you so much for the advice. Your last sentence made me think, I will try to get two more years under the belt before risking it in Switzerland. Maybe it is a good ideia to already start on the German.

[@38countries]

​@@RicardoSilva-hk2er Yeah, this KZbin channel is not my full time job yet. I try to respond to anything sensible, but it may take a while sometimes. Go for it and never give up! You can always start applying to try and work remotely. I was actually thinking of hiring mobile devs in some countries including Portugal a while ago.

[@38countries]

​@@RicardoSilva-hk2er If you need some more encouragement, feel free to join the 38Countries Community on Facebook: facebook.com/groups/38countries/

[@DhananjayMandalkar]

Hi Raphael, Thanks for your video. I am looking for a Full stack development job. I am studying in Germany. How hard is the Swiss German language requirement for a software development job?

[@38countries]

Hi Dhananjay! Great question. People moving to Switzerland often fear the "language". I wrote an article about this a while ago: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german For those who don't know what we are talking about: Swiss German and its many dialects is very different from Standard High German (as spoken mostly in Germany). I often like to compare it to Dutch vs. German. If you know one, you will have a relatively easy time to learn the other, but it does not come for free. I think for devs it is not really an issue. You can get away with speaking only English for years in the bigger cities and its surroundings in Zurich, Zug, Geneva, Basel. If you speak and understand Standard German even better. Over time you can then get into understanding Swiss German. Most German native speakers learn to understand Swiss German very well within 3-12 months without putting too much conscious effort into it, simply through every day's interactions. Some jobs in more conservative companies do require that you speak Standard or Swiss German quite well but I would say that in software development these are only a subset. It is limiting your job search, but I think that limitation is not too bad and not really a factor to be afraid of moving to Switzerland.

[@DhananjayMandalkar]

@@38countries Thanks for your information.

[@igorpupkinable]

Suisse Deutsch becomes a requirement to apply for decision-making positions in German speaking kantons depending on a company.

[@ehasaranga]

Waiting for a job offer to move there

[@38countries]

Go for it and never give up.

[@paulorovere2757]

Hi Raphael, I found your channel on my feed and it hits right on the spot of my main question. I'm doing a 4month bootcamp next month (one of the top bootcamps at coursereport , switchup, etc) and I was wondering if it his valid in switzerland? I've looked in LinkedIn and there's a lot of company's not asking for a degree. Do you think it's doable to find a job? I'm not looking into big company's or corporates. I feel like the startup are more suited for me. I live in Switzerland btw but in the French part, I speak fluent French and English.

[@38countries]

Hi Paulo, really depends on the company. Some do require formal stuff like degrees, many are not that strict. I would say that Switzerland is a little more focussed on your actual skills, work experience etc., anything that enables you to develop software, than some other countries in Europe. Don't worry if you not every company invites you for an interview. Some companies also post jobs where there is no urgent need to hire and then they have unrealistic expectations. Don't be fooled by such job ads that will easily lead to rejection that it would be your fault. So overall a bootcamp alone is not always enough by itself but it is a start, esp. if applying only for a junior role. You can probably find a company that is desperate enough to get you started and then you just take it from there.

[@paulorovere2757]

@@38countries Thank you for the answer, it was very helpful and motivating :D

[@38countries]

@@paulorovere2757 Glad it helps. Remember to never ever give up. If you consider giving up, write me a message.

[@tiglymigly2846]

Hi Raphael, thanks for sharing! What about language, is it real to find a job w.o. german/french knowledge? I check time to time IT positions in Switzerland via glassdoor, 80% requires to have some knowledge of german. Do people speak english there, do you have work mates who comunicate in english only, how common it is? Btw, your english is pretty impressive.

[@38countries]

Hi Tigly! I would at first avoid those jobs that require German. First of all, I don't recommend to delay your move to try and learn German beforehand. It makes more sense to learn that in the country that actually speaks German with real speaker around you every day. If you do that from somewhere else, you are probably never gonna get there and then you will never make the move. Second, and here it is much more my personal and somewhat radical opinion: The language of IT is English. And I am saying that as a native German speaker. It's just the reality. Now if a company stubbornly requires fluent German for a software dev job, it is an indicator that this company/team is a bit more on the conservative side and has not accepted the reality yet that you as a company are limiting yourself too much in hiring the best and brightest if fluency is your filter upfront. I do recommend to learn German quickly (i.e. within 3-12 months of arrival) once you are in Switzerland to integrate into society, make non-expat local friends etc. Once you are surrounded by German speakers it's quite doable in my opinion. Even more on the whole language topic in Switzerland: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german

[@gdthegreat]

Please share how to get one job at Swiss

[@38countries]

Hi GD The Great! Anything you are specifically interested in?

[@gdthegreat]

@@38countries , yes interested in Senior Backend developer job.

[@tgow7304]

Wow this video was really helpful...i have applied to join your facebook group after watching this video to get help if possible

[@38countries]

Glad it was helpful!

[@KaxDigital-mj1jk]

Is it better to move to Switzerland or United States as a Tech Entrepreneur?

[@38countries]

Depends on many factors. If you are looking for VC, the US may be better. But then again getting a visa for the US is difficult for EU citizens while EU citizens don't need one for Switzerland, but might find the high quality of living in Switzerland combined with investment from the US plus a sales office in the US plus maybe a few R&D offices through the EU a good combo. I know that convincing my GF to move to the US with its gun issues and so many people who can't even agree on basic scientific facts is probably harder than it was to get her to Switzerland :-D

[@madmikesch2453]

Money saving is not true if you live and work in the southwest of Germany. Switzerland is 2-3 times more expensive and salary ist only about 1,2 to 1,5 higher in comparable positions.

[@38countries]

Nope, your numbers are off. Switzerland is not 2x or 3x expensive for most things. Checkout Numbeo which is always a great source. According to Numbeo (Apr 2023), living in Zurich will cost you 67% more than Munich. But with tax differences factored in, you can easily make 2x net in Zurich vs. Munich. Beyond that, your savings rate will *always* increase if your cost of living increases by factor X while your net income increases by that same factor X. In this case, your net income increases even more so your savings rate increases even more.

[@madmikesch2453]

@@38countries My friend I live there at Lake of Constance. My numbers are accurate.

[@38countries]

​@@madmikesch2453 Sorry to read that you think this way.

[@Micha-bp5om]

@@38countries I did not succeed to get double my salary in Switzerland. I have 5300€ netto (110k) in Stuttgart, pay 900€ mortgage for my own apartament in city center, eat lunch for 3-5€ at job, have no stress, child care is almost free, parties are also close to free. The best offer in Switzerland was 130k, but a very stressful job with less vacation days and understand what people talk, in Zürich impossible even though my Hochdeutsch is fluent

[@38countries]

Thanks for sharing, Micha! It's really odd though. At 110K in Stuttgart you typically have to be a lead, manager or similar. The equivalent in Zürich would be at least 160K if not 200K. So I think you must have been very unlucky in your search in Switzerland. 130K is more of a senior dev salary for someone who is good, but not like world class and no team responsibilities etc.

[@ajalanbrown2200]

i would love to move to switzerland but wouldnt know how to go about it as a dev in austin

[@38countries]

Checking out dev jobs is often the best first step: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland

[@ajalanbrown2200]

@@38countries thanks!!! Do you live there?

[@38countries]

@@ajalanbrown2200 Yes

[@nikhil182]

Okay, I'm coming.

[@38countries]

Let us know how it goes!

[@FelipeV3444]

How about living in France and working in Geneva? Lots of people do that.

[@38countries]

It's possible but it does not always pay off due to the differences in taxation. It really depends on the specific case.

[@igorpupkinable]

Really depends. You will get cross border commuter permit with different taxation rules in such case. This is generally not favoured by IT companies due to the hassle, but works fine for servicing jobs. Please remember that Swiss banking law requires you to be physically present in the country if you have access to customer data, so remote work is a big blocker for jobs in banks, insurance companies and agencies unless your skills are so specific and amazingly outstanding.

[@38countries]

Living in one of the neighboring countries of Switzerland often means you have to pay much more taxes. Since Geneva also has very high taxes, it won't make that much of a difference in this case and of course if your salary is low it can make sense. For IT jobs in most of Switzerland it often does not make sense financially to be a border crosser due to the higher taxes. But exceptions always exist due to family, a house you already have somewhere etc and sometimes there are non-financial reasons that can make it worthwhile to be a border crosser.

[@LizzKlaesson-cd9iv]

Can you rent an apartment in Grindewald?

[@38countries]

Generally yes, but why?

[@heyo8270]

Hi, I'm a senior student. This year, I'll be studying software engineering at one of the best universities in Turkey. Also, I'm from France and I know advanced french and english. Do you think it is possible for me to work abroad in a country like Switzerland after graduation?

[@38countries]

Hey hey o! Absolutely. People moving to Switzerland often fear the "language". Luckily it's not such a big issue in Software Engineering. In Zurich and Zug you hear so many people speaking English on the trains, in the offices etc since it's full of expats. Of course the danger is to stay in your expat bubble so you should learn Swiss German as fast as you can to make local friends. But getting started in English is definitely possible. I wrote an article about this a while ago: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german

[@alibahrami6810]

I'm from Iran and I am a front end developer. Is there any guidance for moving to Switzerland?

[@38countries]

Consider starting with a remote job.

[@alibahrami6810]

@@38countries I've sent my resume for over 5 companies, but as soon as they know I'm from Iran, they reject me. Also, moving money to Iran has some serious considerations, because of sanctions. If you have time, I can send you my resume, also I will be thankful for a small online talk if you have time.

[@38countries]

Sure. I was thinking of doing an AMA session sometime soon. Would you be interested in that?

[@alibahrami6810]

@@38countries Yeah, sure! thank you so much!

[@MrReachashish]

I am also planning to move to Switzerland from Germany. I have heard in Germany, that you must quote 2x your current salary as expected salary in Switzerland. How true is this now? Is it still 2x or you think it's more like 1.5x ?

[@38countries]

Highly depends on the actual supply and demand situation. It some jobs it's more like 1.2x, in others 2x. So you can't really give a factor that always works well. Also taxes are hugely different depending on where you live in Switzerland. If you live in Neuenburg for example, you might make about 12% less after taxes because the difference in taxes is so high. That is often a couple of thousands or ten thousands per year while the gross salary that the employer pays you is the same.

[@igorpupkinable]

~50fr. for pasta and glass of wine in the restaurant. ~20fr. for lunch at work. Now you can do a calculation.

[@Micha-bp5om]

@@igorpupkinable crazy prices... I earn 110k in Germany and pay for pasta/pizza and wine under 20€. I eat at work, a delicious beef steak with a soft drink is 6€ (employer supported)

[@38countries]

Igor, that is a very expensive restaurant then, maybe with a direct view on the lake. You could have the same at home for 10 CHF or in a more modest restaurant in Zurich for max. 30 CHF. I think if you make 120K+ per year, that is affordable.

[@igorpupkinable]

@@38countries this was my very first restaurant in Zürich just next to my apartment: Vapiano in Sihlcity. Vapiano is like Wagamama, some people don’t even dare to call it a restaurant. I am sure you can find cheaper places, but not by much if I remember correctly.

[@hamzazaafrane983]

what's the best web site for job searching in Switzerland please ?

[@38countries]

LinkedIn is the best starting point. And I am probably going to start my own "private" iOS and Android job list for Switzerland soon since that's my industry.

[@shishirarora8808]

I am 35 in Microsoft India, will I save more in Switzerland compared to India? I am a spendthrift

[@38countries]

Probably yes, but it really depends on many factors, so you'd have to do the personalized math.

[@g0thqu054]

Hi Raphael could I plz ask you? I am a german developer and got a Job in switzerland with 150k yearly salary, I feel the salary is a little bit high regarding my skills and experience and I am worrying about that.. how is the work level there? Harder than in germany ?

[@38countries]

Hey G0Th!Qu0! Sorry for the slow replies these days. Got a bit overwhelmed with the many comments to this video, but am glad about the interest. 150K is a decent salary for a senior or team lead dev, depending on the technology. Generally, it's work hard, play hard, more than in Germany, but probably less extreme than the US.

[@g0thqu054]

@@38countries thnx for the reply ! I am unfortunately not in the senior/lead level, I am doing Java/Spring/Angular development (Full Stack)

[@38countries]

Then you seem to be very lucky. I'd say go for it?

[@g0thqu054]

@@38countries normally I'm not that lucky guy, maybe this time. I'm thinking about it since I have a family and it is not easy to move and lose the job and then to go back

[@38countries]

Hi G0Th!Qu0, I understand that taking a new job abroad when you have a family to support can be risky, but there are ways to mitigate that risk. Firstly, you can negotiate the best possible salary and benefits package, ensuring that you're financially secure before making the move. Additionally, you could keep the door open to your old role and potentially return if the new role doesn't work out as you anticipate. It's also worth mentioning that Switzerland has a strong social safety net and provides assistance to those who lose their jobs, including unemployment insurance and job placement services.

[@OfoeNelson]

Hi Raphael can you mentor me to get a job in Switzerland as a software engineer? I'm a fast learner

[@38countries]

Maybe. Did you have something in mind specifically?

[@OfoeNelson]

@@38countries I want to find work there but I need a way to do it with the highest chance of success. So what do you think I should do as a web developer to accomplish this? What programming language is most in demand by employers for example with very limited supply and what projects would impress such employers? I'm looking at corporations mainly not start ups. What do you think? Also if you're Twitter we can continue this conversation there. Thanks.

[@38countries]

On the frontend side React is of course quite popular and then on the backend there is a lot of demand for Java as well as many other languages. I think the choice of programming language should not be a big problem for you though. I have created a Facebook group for people like you seeking to relocate or work remotely for Swiss companies: facebook.com/groups/38countries/

[@OfoeNelson]

@@38countries I'm learning Angular and c#. Thanks for sharing the group.

[@victorbrittoferreira5206]

@@38countries Hey, Raphael, thanks for that tip...Java and React. What about Python? Is this just used do ML/AI? Thank you

[@milunacodes]

What would you say is the average salary for an engineer with 5 years of experience?

[@38countries]

Highly depends on your tech stack. For e.g. Java, Golang, Python backend stuff as well as Swift, Kotlin mobile apps around 120-160K. It can be more depending on how specialized you are in a certain framework or product and reach around 200K. Below that I would try and find a better role before moving.

[@pruebaerror6977]

But how to be contracted by a Switzerland employers being a foreign software engineer, worst being Latin American SE.

[@38countries]

You apply directly or go through a near shoring company.

[@Hari_Nazrekar_7]

Hey Raphael ! I am pursuing diploma ( pre bachelors after 10th grade ) in computer science 2nd year and I want to move to Switzerland for my bachelor's in 2025 ! What do you think I shall focus more on ? I personally have interest in DevOps/Cloud And Data Science/Machine Learning But From Your Experience and Knowledge What Shall I Specialise in to easily find jobs in Switzerland ?

[@38countries]

All of what you mentioned is sufficiently good to find a great dev job in Switzerland. I see these roles very often on LinkedIn. Switzerland is small (almost 9M people, similar to Austria, Portugal etc.), but not tiny like Monaco or Liechtenstein. So pick whatever you think is most fun. ... and I just started the beta of my "How to Move to Switzerland" program. While in beta, you can sign up for free: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland Also don't forget to check out my article about job platforms: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland

[@Andravitar]

how hard is to get an english spoken job? From what I saw, 80% requires german

[@38countries]

It varies a lot. The most important local languages are German and French and then there is also Italian. Traditional companies like banks, insurance companies and many small and medium enterprises often do require the local language. But multinational companies often don't since their main language often is English anyways.

[@zenmasters_games]

What about Austria?

[@38countries]

Very nice country, but high taxes and even more bureaucratic than Switzerland.

[@martinmcnulty8155]

This is a really weird video. The guy is german and he is inviting everyone to Switzerland??? It's like if I invited people to my neighbours' house without asking him. I think Raphael forgot to mention a few downsides of living in Switzerland: As well as the high cost of living: - Difficulty to get a work permit - Difficulty to find a job if you don't speak the language - Hard to make friends for expats - Very hard to find a nice flat in big towns like Zurich or Geneva - Very expensive day-care for parents

[@38countries]

Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat: www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva Do you need to learn German to find a job as a software developer in Switzerland: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4jUeXiapM2Ed68

[@SammyHegab]

I can't see the benefit of moving to Switzerland, why leave a tax free jurisdiction to pay tax in Switzerland and why save when I can invest without capital gains tax. I agree is better than France, Germany, UK but it is no where at all competitive compared to tax free jurisdictions.

[@38countries]

First of all, there are not many if any tax-free jurisdictions with a decent quality of life. If you look at the HDI Top 20, you will find that many of them have very high taxes and none of them are even close to zero-tax jurisdictions. It does not become much better if you take a different ranking. The next thing is that it's really hard to make a lot of money when living in a "tax-free" jurisdiction. So many coaches on the internet want to sell you this dream, but the reality is that a lot of their followers/customers end up making like 30K per year without paying taxes where really they could make much more money after taxes under a different type of arrangement. If you want to become rich, get VC and build the next unicorn. Saving on taxes alone will never make you rich. On the contrary, it will often limit you to into selling hot air.

[@calebjimmysmith]

Don't forget about the mountains!!!

[@38countries]

Mountains are the best!

[@Garfild_400]

are there job opportunities in switzerland as sa software dev?

[@38countries]

Yes, it is more difficult now than 2 years ago though like everywhere in the world, which makes it even more important to position yourself correctly

[@gurugamer8632]

Which country are you from?

[@38countries]

Grew up in Germany but my family is not from Germany.