I don’t think being cheated on is worth going to prison. No one is that important.
@tinawindham69582 ай бұрын
Revenge is getting in great shape, getting some new hobbies and moving on to someone that does love you. She acted like he was her pet that she owned. She was upset with the wrong person😢
@TheProtagonistDies2 ай бұрын
agreed. she's a complete waste to society and capable of anything
@RDCFemmes2 ай бұрын
You are right, that's why some people work hard to find a way to gate away with murder. Doing it in a country, where you can bribe authority is an option
@KitKat_20072 ай бұрын
Why would anyone want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with him/her?
@Anon1mous2 ай бұрын
She obviously had psych issues like so many women do today. No wonder he left her!
@princesabonita792 ай бұрын
and you think that after you kill your ex's GF he was gonna be like "ok, let's get back together"?...that's a another level of crazy.
@dk91022 ай бұрын
Having watched a lot of criminal case videos sometimes both parties being crazy people isn't uncommon. Like I just watched that video about a woman whose fiance was cheating on her with another married woman so she catfished him pretending to be cartel connected to the other woman. It resulted in the man killing the woman he was cheating with, her husband, her 2 kids, and the 2 family dogs. His fiance and him stayed together and eventually went on the run together after they were interviewed by police before crashing in a police chase and the man shooting her in the head and then himself. So you never know, whole lotta crazy stuff going on in the world.
@karenneill91092 ай бұрын
Similar to a stalking mindset. Do you really think that she’s going to want you? You terrify her!
@princesabonita792 ай бұрын
@@dk9102 omg yes i watched that one like last week or so. Yeah sometimes crazy seeks out crazy.
@princesabonita792 ай бұрын
@@karenneill9109 literally!
@driftingminstrel2 ай бұрын
@@dk9102Didn't she end up leaving him later on?
@Moomin-xy3ku2 ай бұрын
Ladies if your man cheats, don't play the pick me dance. If he can't be faithful, he's not much of a catch. Also, if you find out that you're an affair partner, end it. You don't win anything if the man leaves his partner for you,, You got an unfaithful man who will cheat again when the honeymoon phase is gone cause he would want the rush an affair gives him.
@u.synlig2 ай бұрын
He left. Their relationship was over. It wasn't cheating. Only the paper-dissolution remained to be put into effect.
@robsengahay56142 ай бұрын
It sounds like this marriage was already over. My first wife was having an affair and left me but we both knew that after 11 years together it wasn’t right. She cried when she told me she was leaving. I also cried and gave her a hug. We divorced amicably and remain on good terms more than 20 years later. Sadly, her relationship didn’t work out for her. I met someone new and remarried and am happily married now for 22 years. I am saying this because it’s always easy to blame the one having the affair but unless someone is a serial adulterer it isn’t one party to blame. This lady couldn’t face the reality that she had a bad marriage.
@AYFKMRN2 ай бұрын
Exactly- if they’ll cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you; so unless your only goal is a hookup, don’t plan on picking out drapes. All you’re doing is reinforcing the ridiculous belief that they’re so amazing everyone wants him/her, and someone better is always right around the corner. No good comes from dating a cheater, or forgiving one. In the end, you’ll find yourself right back in the same place but next time even more dejected.
@AYFKMRN2 ай бұрын
@@robsengahay5614 If someone values you so little that they’ll go outside the marriage for gratification, that’s 100% on them. I don’t care how poorly the state of the marriage is, how bad communication is, alienation of affection, etc., and the marriage/relationship. Using excuses to shift blame is disingenuous and gross.
@auggiedoggiesmommy17342 ай бұрын
@@u.synlighe left after he met her on Facebook
@___Lyric___2 ай бұрын
She hunted her down, stalked her, brought gloves AND knife. That’s premeditation- in what world could you argue manslaughter? You don’t stab someone over and over and NOT intend to end their life. Girl please.
@tinawindham69582 ай бұрын
And went back to her cadi to get the knife! She could’ve whooped her ass and left! She assault charges. She was angry at the wrong person. He would’ve found someone else, probably has I’m not finished yet.
@MayorOfMoetownАй бұрын
Crime of passion
@Bianca-f1lАй бұрын
Definitely @@MayorOfMoetown
@Bianca-f1lАй бұрын
Nope it was manslaughter
@AmandaLove7772Ай бұрын
@@___Lyric___ not guilty
@Deerntje2 ай бұрын
Voluntary manslaughter when she put on gloves and brought a knife? Sure
@LittleBlueOwl3182 ай бұрын
FACT: She was convicted of 1st Degree Murder
@hotmessexpress002 ай бұрын
Definitely premeditated
@andiward70682 ай бұрын
There is a higher burden of proof for murder than manslaughter. Rather than have her found not guilty, they charged her with a slightly lesser crime. Court isn't about what happened but what 12 jurors agree happened.
@karenneill91092 ай бұрын
Premeditated for sure.
@F1986R2 ай бұрын
@@andiward7068 Of course, but gloves and a knife?
@PumaLyn2 ай бұрын
Stay away from married men/women. Stay away from adultery. Divorce is an option.
@laurahoward5426Ай бұрын
It is not the victim's fault
@audreydaleski1067Ай бұрын
Sleezy people don't want divorce. It costs them 2:32 money. They want the csje and the icing, too. Get a decent divorce attorney and take him to the cleaners.
@tricialow217Ай бұрын
@@laurahoward5426 She shouldn't be involved with married man. But she didn't deserve death. Never play with fire
@veezopolisАй бұрын
He. Didn't. Cheat. He broke up with her
@frostflower5555Ай бұрын
I don't look highly upon women who go with married men. It's a big no-no. Selfish greedy of her. Disgusting. But the wife needed support to help her leave him, it looked like she was tortured.
@1997bronco2 ай бұрын
That walk to the car for the knife is more than enough to prove first degree
@kurtvanluven93512 ай бұрын
A time for reflection she ignored. Go Broncos!
@inTruthbyGrace2 ай бұрын
if it was pre-meditated she would have *_already had the knife in her hand, ready to go_*
@spacerat1112 ай бұрын
@@inTruthbyGrace I mean do you actually leave a murder kit with gloves and all in your car then just happen to follow the new GF around after sending her a bunch of threats? lol
@so.many.obstaclesАй бұрын
@@spacerat111 What is exactly is a murder kit? I keep a knife, gloves, rope, duct tape, tarp, and boots in my car. I also carry a firearm. If I were to do the same thing, it doesn’t mean premeditation, that’s why intent has to be proven. I can argue that I didn’t intend to commit murder and I already carry those items with me for emergency and safety reasons.
@ilovediscus94Ай бұрын
Yes and the gloves everything else was circumstantia
@BLUEGREEN652 ай бұрын
People change over years and sometimes fall out of love. You can’t make someone want to be with you. Move on with your life. Life is too short to chase after someone who isn’t interested in you.
@BOLOforJESUStheTRIBULTIONear2 ай бұрын
Yeah because marriage isn’t worth working on anymore -we are a throw it away society-and now marriage too. Just get another one.
@serenity6415Ай бұрын
@@BOLOforJESUStheTRIBULTIONearin this case, it was necessary. She's clearly very unstable emotionally. He didn't love her. Staying in a situation like that because religion says you're supposed to just ruins lives. Some broken things can't be fixed and I'm sick of people scorning with religion. Why can religious people not just mind their own business?
@dbentleyto95Ай бұрын
Or live alone and do what you want.
@fritzy1819Ай бұрын
Be a man and divorce your wife before screwing other women! Same goes for women cheating.
@jillijane9793Ай бұрын
@@serenity6415 exactly. Why would anyone want to be with someone that is needy, clingy and obsessive
@lwinkfeinАй бұрын
I remember finding out about my husbands affairs. I felt stupid because everyone seemed to know except me. My whole life was a lie because I believed he was faithful, I believed we had a good marriage. He was never honest with me. When he left, all my dreams or ideas of our future would be were over. Our marriage was a lie, I just didn't know it. But, no excuse to seek revenge and kill or injure someone. My revenge was him knowing today, I'm happily married for 40 years and he has 3 failed marriages and no one trusts him.
@jd7936Ай бұрын
❤🙏
@janleslie7163Ай бұрын
Good for you ❤
@TigerTummy2321 күн бұрын
I love your story. ❤
@neondeathstar684118 күн бұрын
The best kind of revenge is the kind where you don’t have to do anything but watch. The universe has a way of balancing things out. ❤
@chrispapa27822 күн бұрын
Good on you 🎉
@jenniferraymond3913Ай бұрын
The neighbor!!!”I just want this place cleaned up”. What compassion.
@ViewerNumber9Ай бұрын
😂 I know, right?!
@harriettemacy7399Ай бұрын
truly awful
@gaiuszeno1331Ай бұрын
Who wants a corpse on the lawn
@starlightgone886 күн бұрын
I can't have sympathy for cheaters, theyzhad no sympathy for the person they wounded.
@BreeIsMeTV2 күн бұрын
More compassion than the husband that cheated 🥴 The neighbor is correct, they’re all a mess and it needs to be cleaned up.
@Brian1Graves2 ай бұрын
I can never understand why people won't intervene in such a case. "I don't want to get involved." is no excuse for allowing someone to die.
@cakesaregood5176Ай бұрын
Right now, New York State is actively trying to put a man in jail for life for defending people on the subway. Shit like that is why people don’t want to get involved.
@eh-i1841Ай бұрын
It’s such a selfish mindset.
@lilydawn365Ай бұрын
Right! I would have been out there, too.
@sexysherry13Ай бұрын
It's shameful. A neighborhood filled with cowards! Kudos to the woman who did call 911, though.
@gaiuszeno1331Ай бұрын
It isnt the bystanders business
@thaterinb2452 ай бұрын
Y’all gotta recognize that adultery is DANGEROUS. Too many people think “I’m not the one who has to be loyal to anything” without realizing that might not matter.
@janet4900Ай бұрын
Yeah, I can't help but feel sorry for the defendant.
@frostflower5555Ай бұрын
Number 1 rule for any woman. Do not flirt with married men.
@deloreslate4028Ай бұрын
How do you trust someone that cheats on their partner with you? If he’s cheating with you he’s gonna cheat on you. Or risk getting killed.
@frostflower5555Ай бұрын
@@deloreslate4028 That's why I call them b*s if they do that...but you can clearly see her background..and he was just garbage, poor wife. If the wife had support she could've just done the appropriate thing and kick him out of the house.
@ReesyQueenАй бұрын
@@janet4900You feel bad for a murderer ? 😂 she could’ve went about it the right way. Like idk DIVORCE ? Instead she when psycho & offed somebody and you feel bad ? 😂
@nanaingallswilder73632 ай бұрын
When your new boyfriend has a crazy ex, bow out. He’s not worth the trouble,and he is surely not worth your life.
@sheilalopez7498Ай бұрын
Your new boyfriend is an adulterer and you too if you call him your boyfriend!!
@lilydawn365Ай бұрын
💯 Amen 🙏 🙌
@omittableАй бұрын
Nor is he worth it. If he can treat one woman that way he will eventually treat you that way!!
@jrod1591Ай бұрын
That’s the truth! If I meet a good woman has been abused in the past I just leave. Don’t wanna deal with a crazy ex.
@brandoncabell77932 ай бұрын
The defense attorney talking is like nails on a chalk board! “There’s no big dramatic revealmmm, there’s no unexpected twistsmmm”
@djdyon2 ай бұрын
That mmh every time is annoying af
@MikeCurran-l2w2 ай бұрын
So annoying
@adriennekendrick16352 ай бұрын
I came looking for this comment. I knew I couldn't be the only one to feel this way!
@SnowBunnz2 ай бұрын
I thought there would have been comments full of hmmmm! I literally couldn’t listen to her hmm 😂
@joutoob92 ай бұрын
like nails in a coffin, not what you want your defense attorney to talk like.
@maureenstevens68242 ай бұрын
How do you say "I just want this mess cleaned up " when someome just got killed ?!?!? She is guilty of fitst degree...she stalked, had a knife and gloves in her car and used them and disposed of the weapon...that's 1st defree premeditated murder !!! 😢😢😢 These bystanders were totally disgraceful...they didn't even call 911 until after the murderer had left and wanted the mess cleaned up.
@cayleighwolfbane17362 ай бұрын
That really got to me as well... " I just want this cleaned up". I get people respond in different ways but to try and gloss over it like Tracy's life didn't matter is abhorrent
@aquacleaning49942 ай бұрын
@@cayleighwolfbane1736no, she was talking about the neighborhood. She said she wanted it cleaned up around here, meaning the area. Not the murder
@jammie24752 ай бұрын
She was talking about the crime in the area plus she thought it was a fight. She didn't know the condition of the woman.
@Dale1152 ай бұрын
No one wanted to “get involved”. Who are we as people? Humans?😢
@MoodyLoser962 ай бұрын
You idiot, no one's going out on their own not knowing they might be injured or killed themselves not knowing the circumstances. CRITICAL thinking goes along way. She meant the crime in the area It's a figure of speech.
@jillijane9793Ай бұрын
My husband came home one day, told me he wanted a divorce, packed up his things and moved in with another woman and married her as soon as the divorce was final. It is what it is. I didn't stalk anyone or hurt anyone. Nobody wants to be with someone clingy and needy.
@audreydaleski1067Ай бұрын
Hope for your happiness
@theresenorwayАй бұрын
You did the right thing. I experienced the same. Sure I was angry and bitter in the beginning and wanted to do all kind of things,but neither of them was worth jail time or me harming someone. ❤
@MsSexyDiva4Lyfe27 күн бұрын
Unfourtournely, everyone is not this mature. 45 year old me can do this...25 year old me... I would have been on one of these videos
@valeriedelagarza512118 күн бұрын
Exact thing happened to me. I'm too good for a narcissistic cheater. I'm finally free. 20 years a lie and gone, but I am better off.
@loretta_38432 ай бұрын
I would advise anyone having jealousy issues to get help. It is such a self destructive emotion. You really won't have any peace until you let it go.
@breannadohner60682 ай бұрын
No one is weak for going to therapy❤
@Lollita232 ай бұрын
So many people have that issue: what he did to her was deplorable, not excusable what she did
@BOLOforJESUStheTRIBULTIONear2 ай бұрын
Of course we do because it’s a human emotion-if it didn’t bother you-you wouldn’t be human. People just throw marriages away in our throw it away society now and everyone acts like it’s easy and oh well-no biggie just move on. Our minds don’t work like that except maybe in the new -all about me society we are in. But it’s ok -because we are in the end times and we see the demise of society happening right before our eyes 👀. What she was wrong too….sad situation all around!!
@danamama67662 ай бұрын
@@Lollita23 One 100 percent true.
@TaylorElizabethHuntАй бұрын
@@Lollita23what she did was deplorable!
@BadB3rries2 ай бұрын
Infidelity is very painful, but that does not give anyone the right to take away someone’s life…
@greghaas4342 ай бұрын
It wasn’t infidelity. He wasn’t doing this behind her back. He left. And wanted out of the marriage. She couldn’t accept that. He wasn’t coming home to her and pretending to be happy and have this other girl on the side. He told her he was done and left. He did it the right way. She was just insane. That’s not on him.
@BadB3rries2 ай бұрын
@ but they were still married no?
@jerryjohnson7362 ай бұрын
@@BadB3rries Divorce isn't an overnight process and it can become severely delayed when one party is clearly delusional about the viability of the marriage.
@eggsngritstn2 ай бұрын
@@BadB3rries Separated. Living apart.
@wakeshokimmy8572 ай бұрын
@@BadB3rries How long does a divorce take to be processed?
@TAGMZs632 ай бұрын
I'm sure the family of Tracy is despondent, destroyed and devastated as well.
@Thatsher212 ай бұрын
Yeah, devastated that she has no morals. Karma is a b--.
@jerryjohnson7362 ай бұрын
@@Thatsher21 Are you confused?
@CMister20162 ай бұрын
Ya, imagine watching this old pathetic lady crying about a breakup meanwhile your daughter is gone forever!
@CMister20162 ай бұрын
@@Thatsher21what tf did you say? He broke up with that whiny bitch and then she got depressed because she had no life of her own & killed that poor girl! Then tried to act crazy! That woman is calculated & pure evil! I pray all her appeals go straight in the fucking trash
@Suchnerve19912 ай бұрын
She just took some words out of the thesaurus. Couldn’t even get creative with it. Lol
@pdig2963Ай бұрын
I feel her pain 100%. I went through the same thing, but I would never even think about killing somebody over man. I was devastated , heartbroken he was my childhood friend who I loved dearly 💔 i just moved on , and that was not happy about it , we've been divorcies 2006 i just moved on 😢 but it caused me to trust no one 😢
@GoAskAlice23Ай бұрын
Just about Everyone has been through this .
@marshareed1438Ай бұрын
Her husband seems like a completely heartless man. He’s not even heartbroken that he lost Tracy… I think that he broke Michelle down throughout their marriage & when he dumped her for Tracy that made her feel worthless… I was married for 30 yrs and my ex started breaking me down immediately after we got married. I wasn’t allowed to ever go to my husband for sex, when I needed him or to even seduce him. He teased me by rubbing on me close … but then he would roll over & crash. 30 yrs of this torment! He got it only when he wanted it. My ex was heartless. He had a get over it attitude, if something didn’t effect him he didn’t care & he didn’t care how much I suffered. By the time that he was over I was completely broken, I felt worthless as a wife! I wanted to die! I was just a shell of a woman! I got so angry that I wanted him dead while at the same time my heart loved him. I was conflicted bcz I didn’t ever really know my husband until I decided to go thru his phone. I decided that I needed to get away from him until I was strong enough to get a divorce. I kept out of his presence for 3 yrs, I didn’t let him touch me again… it took me 8 yrs from the time that I was completely broken to finally being ready for a divorce. Thank God he filed & God gave me our house with it paid off by him! After he left I slept better than I’ve ever slept before! It has been 4 yrs & I’m so at peace! I do get lonely & I do get asked out but there hasn’t been a man that I’ve wanted to be with & I no longer have a desire for a man to touch me. Just at the thought of a relationship it makes me physically sick & I lose my peace, but as long as I stay single I’m at total peace! Thanks for sharing your story! I’m so sorry that you went thru that & I completely understand how you feel! The age thing. My ex fell in love with a woman 30 yrs younger than him. They didn’t end up together. I think that the emotional affair was only him… I think that he made her feel good tho, after all he got her a job where he works & it helped her resume & income. After he left he went insane & he told me that he was going crazy & that he didn’t know what he was going to do with his life, he missed me. It’s all very heartbreaking! I’m still in love with him. 30 yrs is more than half of my life, I’m 59… God bless!
@lisahershock7682Ай бұрын
True. It is part of life.
@gentlethunder777Ай бұрын
@@marshareed1438he was emotionally abusive to you, don’t take him back, keep your peace, he has demons he needs to rid himself of.. etc day, each year you will get stronger.❤️
@kiddlesnmore22 ай бұрын
So now she’ll be in prison instead of baking cookies for her grandkids. She probably feels joyous for devastating her husband by taking away his new love. I would think that a man who doesn’t have the balls to divorce his wife before he jumped into another woman’s bed, isn’t much of a man.
@chrissz1762Ай бұрын
Agree with your comment.
@maddielu5286Ай бұрын
You mean the woman he was cheating on her with, isn't there a saying about staying away from married people... three way tragedy here
@BLUEGREEN652 ай бұрын
Having gloves and a knife and out following the victim is definitely premeditated!!!!!!!
@strongfoot2009Ай бұрын
First degree.
@DevilOnlyKnitsLaceАй бұрын
It should also carry an enhancement on the charge- laying in wait.
@RandyPerez-lj8piАй бұрын
No its not idiot
@DevilOnlyKnitsLaceАй бұрын
@@RandyPerez-lj8pi So THAT'S how YOU do it, eh?
@AnnacolleenEtters2 ай бұрын
I've never understood why a spouse doesn't blame the spouse, and themselves, for allowing their marriage to die. Marriage takes work, it takes attention,
@phoenix520002 ай бұрын
This is what happens when you don't end your relationships properly.
@Godless_Doc2 ай бұрын
No man is worth that.
@AmandaLove7772Ай бұрын
@@Godless_Doc definitely not if they get to live. Lol
@lindafrabizio2910Ай бұрын
@@Godless_Doc now look where she is now. !!! Cry all she wants. Now
@iolawilliams5756Ай бұрын
👊🏾
@molliemae6855Ай бұрын
No woman is worth it either!
@lindafrabizio2910Ай бұрын
@ agree
@LepewhiАй бұрын
My first cheated on me and left me for the person he was cheating on me with. My motto is, living well is the best revenge. And I do. Didn't work out so good for him. Not my problem.
@ChicaG-vg7pj2 ай бұрын
About 30 yrs ago, a guy my husband knew through work did something similar, although he handled it differently. His wife left him for a guy she was working with. The husband went to the wife and lover's workplace, and waited in the parking lot. When they came to the vehicle, he gunned both of them down. The guy put down the gun and waited for the police. He was put in the jail, and when his court came up, he plead guilty and got 12 yrs with eligibility for parole after serving 1/3 of his sentence - standard for my country. His time in jail was counted towards his sentence in prison. He served his time, took full responsibility for his actions, took every course he could in prison, didn't get in trouble and was granted parole on his first hearing. Basically, he served less than 4 yrs in the big house for murdering 2 people in cold blood. I don't know what was more shocking - that this guy served so little time, or that the murderer's workplace rehired him when he got out.
@drunksun422 ай бұрын
I really cannot understand this justice system. That waste of space is out there now, living his life after murdering in cold blood 2 people? Really? Karma will get him. I'm sure!
@rgkavendek2 ай бұрын
WOW, just WOW. 💔🤦🏻♀️
@danamama67662 ай бұрын
Yes that is really messed up.Terrifying our Justice system.
@Dale1152 ай бұрын
What country???
@TweetyMinie11Ай бұрын
Wow
@happypety64732 ай бұрын
I will never understand the hatred towards the "other woman", she didn't steal you man, he LEFT you🙄
@tomverlaine7282 ай бұрын
rivalry is a powerful drug
@queenvitta2 ай бұрын
Agreed!
@lavenderstar862 ай бұрын
I came into the comments to say the same thing!
@yanifree1142 ай бұрын
..and if he did it once , he’ll do it again. Once a cheater, always a cheater.
@BasvandenBerg2 ай бұрын
It's also not like you'll get back what you had. I truly do not understand.
@Spete64512 ай бұрын
Boy, the defense attorney REALLY wanted to hear her own voice. She took forever and said so many redundant things!
@luzvaldes10302 ай бұрын
Her allusions to Perry Mason were so clichéd
@TruthIris2 ай бұрын
Yeah, pretty pathetic- guess that’s what you get for a free attorney, weak and insipid.
@AnnacolleenEtters2 ай бұрын
They usually do.
@clemo852 ай бұрын
not to mention the annoying "hnn" at the end of several of her sentences...
@elspethcoogan14992 ай бұрын
@@clemo85Yes, that was odd.
@kannakity97322 ай бұрын
"We Were having a tussel" Lady, you stabbed a woman in a seat belt repeatedly. You knew exactly "what" you were stabbing
@DReardon-hq2vbАй бұрын
This is why you shouldn't wrap all your happiness up in one person.
@highhowareyou777Ай бұрын
came to comment this exact same thing.
@prettybabyface7313Ай бұрын
Absolutely so💯👍👍
@Kit1128Ай бұрын
This is why you don't date other people's husbands or wives while they're still married. It's not only immoral but dangerous
@ilovediscus94Ай бұрын
AMEN
@HandbagDivaАй бұрын
Your husband of 20 years???
@dae44442 ай бұрын
N now ur husband is with the next woman living happily ever after while u rot away in a cell genius 🙄
@AliValentine1432 ай бұрын
And he got his kids without having to fight Crazy for them in court. Now they have a new Mom.
@kidstuff445552 ай бұрын
@@AliValentine143 Tracey was 56, I'm sure the kids were old enough to not need a new Mom lol
@maddielu5286Ай бұрын
He is the only winner, the other woman who willingly cheated with him is gone too...
@gaiuszeno1331Ай бұрын
The king got his bag.
@lavenderstar862 ай бұрын
Emotional maturity & restraint seems to have eluded Michelle. Going after the other woman is never the right thing.
@nx36962 ай бұрын
Right her husband is to blame. Instead of divorcing her first or at least move out, he chose to find anither woman first and then move out. Hes selfish and disrespectful towards the mother of his children. Hes a selfish adulturer that caused this tragedy
@JoannD732 ай бұрын
Same could be said for Tracy
@Cocobean-j3wАй бұрын
She shouldn’t have killed her but imagine being married for 20+ years and your husband just moves out while you’re at work one random day. He’s a piece of shit imo. It’s not the other woman’s fault. She’s not married to her. what a spineless move by the husband. A man like that is trash.
@Kit1128Ай бұрын
Agree, but it's still "the other woman's" responsibility to respect the fact that the man is married and stay away. It's immoral to violate that whether you're under the contract of marriage or outside of it.
@jessienegron3266Ай бұрын
True
@HandbagDivaАй бұрын
I was in a long term relationship and was at work one day until 7pm. I called my partner on the way home and asked if he wanted me to pick anything up for him, he said no thanks. I drove up and realized his truck wasn’t there. I walked in my home, walked to our room and realized right away. All his clothes were gone from his closet, his drawers by the bed were empty. All of his furniture in our rec room was gone. I was in shock. I don’t think I’d ever felt a pain like that before. He’d spoken to be several times while on my breaks at work & never once said he was moving out. I feel for this woman, but murder is never the answer.
@stolli48Ай бұрын
@@Kit1128 So ist es. Man zerstört keine Ehe 👍🇩🇪
@llong2283162Ай бұрын
It is in part the other woman's fault
@crystalglopez916232 ай бұрын
This is why you don’t involve yourself with anyone who is still married but separated!! Unless you have the divorce decree 📜 in your hands to see proof , don’t get with a man who still has to deal with his wife!!!
@strongfoot2009Ай бұрын
Lol. In which planet are you?.
@vanessas2363Ай бұрын
Absolutely agreed. It's extremely entitled and antagonistic.
@ilovediscus94Ай бұрын
Right not to victim blame it wasn’t her fault but I’d never. I dated a man who ex threatened me I broke up with him. I’m not putting myself in that situation
@mariastewart9820Ай бұрын
Hell,you can get killed even if you are divorced !
@PULAGАй бұрын
Yeah because a piece of paper would definitely have stopped her. If anything, probably would've made her more angry and he'd be dead too
@amiepatterson82 ай бұрын
That man was not worth going to prison .
@GoldenBuddah1972Ай бұрын
No man or woman is.
@GabiD-xu6we2 ай бұрын
Premeditated murder. She's scary. 👿 Life in prison. No parole. Praying for Tracy's family. Rest In Peace. ❤+❤🙏
@PrimmFamily-m6n2 ай бұрын
She could have had a major glow up and started the next chapter of her life.
@lisapop52192 ай бұрын
The only time she isn't emotional is during the verdict. Interesting
@driftingminstrel2 ай бұрын
I thought the exact same thing!
@TigerTummy2321 күн бұрын
And he was not emotional at all. Makes me wonder if he was just using Tracy.
@zionred2 ай бұрын
She made a horrible decision and should reap what she sowed, but no one was blameless in this situation. Our modern society has very little respect for the sanctity of marriage. No matter how you try to justify it, getting involved with a married person or cheating on your spouse is one of the lowest lows. "Commitment" has become a joke in our modern world.
@jodyariewitz7349Ай бұрын
THIS!!!!💯👌👍🏻 I'm sorry...there are zero "victims" in this story. You have an adulterer and a home wrecker...the only one who was doing what she was SUPPOSED to was her, up untill the moment she understandably lost her ish. While nobody is worth all that to me...(he could kick rocks!) I am not the one who had there vows disregarded and was lied to, manipulated and shit on!
@CommadownduringthisperiodАй бұрын
“Reap what she sowed,” not “showed.”
@zionredАй бұрын
@@Commadownduringthisperiod yes, that is correct. Didn't even notice that. LOL. It's a good thing that the grammar police are out and about.
@CommadownduringthisperiodАй бұрын
@@zionred English teacher on duty! 😉 Anyway, your points were well made.
@veezopolisАй бұрын
He. Left. He is allowed to fucking leave and be happy you psychotic fuck
@taymeeks19102 ай бұрын
Premeditated period!!! Sad that this woman couldn’t move on with her life! When your husband tells you that he’s not in love with you anymore! Means !!! Move on with your life! Self love is definitely what she didn’t have!! Enjoy your new journey locked up! This woman didn’t deserve to die due to your actions!!
@ES-mc3ccАй бұрын
Women, never get married until you have good job skills and some money put away. If the marriage doesn't work out, you can move on and support yourself.
@cackalackaboi97372 ай бұрын
I just want this place cleaned up around here, I guess she does not give a shit about the health of the lady
@___Lyric___2 ай бұрын
Wait until she finds out the cops don’t clean crime scenes. Gotta hire a service or do it yourself.
@cackalackaboi97372 ай бұрын
@ right?! 🤣
@cackalackaboi97372 ай бұрын
@ I watch those too 😁
@kouldbanyone49832 ай бұрын
I know. I noticed that too.
@ValerieNeely-e7f2 ай бұрын
What a ding a ling for saying that and not having the guts to see if she was ok.
@erikward7602 ай бұрын
Why does that attorney keep making that "hm" noise after every sentence....driving me crazy! Does she go through her entire life like that? I wouldn't be able to be in the same room with her without telling her to please stop
@gcliffy12 ай бұрын
I've had to turn the sound off 😩
@jeffjones30402 ай бұрын
Or was that the blubbering murderer?
@EdieDawnJay2 ай бұрын
I think that might be a weird feedback from her mic? It is really hard to tell though, I have known a few people who can't help making those noises because of throat conditions though so maybe it isn't voluntary
@dantev32362 ай бұрын
It's a tic.
@volusize2 ай бұрын
😂😂
@texasrefugee78882 ай бұрын
Oh lady when you're heart broken sad devastated and destroyed you go to therapy not go do it to a lot of other people's lives I don't feel a damn bit sorry for you. He ain't your property!
@xen0biaАй бұрын
100% this. The amount of comments that I'm seeing victim-blaming and legit justifying murder because revenge is A-Ok when it's over unfaithfulness somehow (but wouldn't be in any other context, ever - people just like feeling vindicated when treated wrong), is pretty concerning. Lots of people with emotional immaturity needing therapy... Yeah, unfaithfulness hurts and feels like betrayal, but getting one's heart broken is not justification for MURDER, no matter the circumstances. This would have been a no-brainer to ANYONE if it had been a man who had killed an ex GF or the new BF or whomever, but a "woman scorned" gets a pass, because double standards...
@sheilalopez7498Ай бұрын
Well...as a matter of fact... before God, he IS your property! 1 Corinthians 7 v 4
@_Y.Not_2 ай бұрын
Murder is not the answer but this could have been handled so much better on the husbands part, rejecting someone is one thing but packing your stuff and moving in with another younger woman right away after 2 decades of marriage is cruel, self-absorbed and absolutely played a part in this. I wouldn't treat someone I hated like this let alone the mother of my children and someone I once loved, she probably would have been ok had things proceeded at a pace that didn't thoroughly crush her identity, right or wrong many people in long term marriages have their sense of self tied up in their partner.
@annc.39082 ай бұрын
100%
@annc.39082 ай бұрын
However, my ex was threatening me more and more often and I didn’t want to be murdered so I asked for a divorce and he knocked the entire door off the drywall to get in the guest room I was sleeping in with a knife in his hand. I was out of the window already. I had planned to move out unknowingly when he was in vacation but we were hit with several 12 in snows in a row and the power went out. So I was going to run and leave without him knowing (not for a man) but see where telling someone the truth gets you? He would have stabbed me if he got in there, he also took 5-6 of his prescribed anxiety meds to try to cover for his actions and after I read it would take 20 plus of them to be toxic. He likely googled it. I realllllly should have called the police. I really worry for the next person after me to heal with him….
@queenbee38282 ай бұрын
Nothings cruel about putting yourself first! Clearly the marriage has been unhappy, she was willing for it to remain that way, not doing anything to save it, he told her, not sneak around on her, and left. Had he stayed and tried to divorce her, would that made it better? Naw. She needed a life, other than smothering him, and you can tell how she said it. How you telling another woman anything? She couldn’t change to keep her husband, then blamed it on Tracy. Nothing is her fault
@thatgirlfromBlaketown2 ай бұрын
@@queenbee3828💯💯💯❤️
@Latayla2 ай бұрын
“My whole life just walked out the door”, “He was my whole life”. This is the type of crazy that happens when you don’t have a personality, friends and hobbies of your own. Michelle didn’t snap. I’m sure she stayed in that facility for a week in order to try to use it as evidence for an insanity plee because she knew she would try to hurt Tracy
@rebeccaweaver77142 ай бұрын
Michelle Boat's marriage just "sailed away". But instead of remaining "docked", she ended up going "overboard" Now she has gone to jail and "capsized"
@musicmadness23k982 ай бұрын
Damn. One woman's life ruined, one cut short. Meanwhile, that man can still meet someone else and fall in love again.
@faithodewingie73572 ай бұрын
Thats what these women never think of, go to jail for a man is insane, they are free, your heart can be heeld, what do you gain??
@gottahavefaith25262 ай бұрын
Crazy and stupid; right?!!🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
@DevilOnlyKnitsLaceАй бұрын
He was done with Michelle long before her started the relationship with Tracy. That's the part Michelle didn't understand. Her husband was just waiting for another woman to come along before he left.
@theresenorwayАй бұрын
@@DevilOnlyKnitsLaceAgree!
@BunnylanduАй бұрын
Human jealousy is wrought with dark obsession. I will never touch a man who is still married. To many other available people in the world to want someone who is truly unavailable.
@EricaStapleton-c6p2 ай бұрын
RIP Tracy. Thank you Beyond Evil Podcast 💠
@marydumois42422 ай бұрын
Adulteress so let’s hope she repented.
@TaylorElizabethHuntАй бұрын
@@marydumois4242get a life
@manichairdo9265Ай бұрын
Her dispicable husband was a coward and brute to leave her suddenly like he did. Her subsequent actions are absolutely deplorable.
@dd4run2 ай бұрын
This is so completely evil. She has zero remorse for killing another human being so viciously. The only one she’s sorry for is herself.
@rachelsill79Ай бұрын
I don't have a whole hell of a lot of sympathy for the victim either.
@rebeccacoffman3497Ай бұрын
You said it.
@ceceeeeeee4432 ай бұрын
"i just want this place cleaned up around here ...." *chuckles 😮😮😮
@ldavanzo442 ай бұрын
That woman cou😢ld have been giving cpr too , very selfish person!
@afangforapples2 ай бұрын
Yeah she sucked
@BLUEGREEN652 ай бұрын
That is such an odd thing to say. Someone was just brutally murdered and she had no sympathy for them and was only concerned that someone clean up??
@nowyouknowrealestate57032 ай бұрын
And the other neighborhood just went inside and did nothing! Nice neighborhood.
@sexysherry13Ай бұрын
She's a coward, like the others there who didn't get involved 💯
@lisaburt71182 ай бұрын
As hard as she's 'crying', I'm not seeing any tears. No sympathy. Thousands of women have their husbands walk out on them but they don't continually threaten, stalk, and finally murder the other woman. This was premeditated.
@saikosspam6392 ай бұрын
Weird how people think murder will make their partner fall in love again - talk about insecurity
@OndriaDancingStar2 ай бұрын
She didn't think it would make him fall in love with her, she wanted to hurt him like he hurt her. She succeeded
@saikosspam6392 ай бұрын
@@OndriaDancingStar he wasn't crying, emotionless. they weren't together very long i doubt it was a super deep attachment --
@Brandy3319Ай бұрын
Facts…! Look at that big ole’ smile on her face in the thumbnail 😆
@TaylorElizabethHuntАй бұрын
@@OndriaDancingStarexcept she did far worse than cheat!
@smorgasbroad1132Ай бұрын
Yeah, she didn't "snap". She planned and plotted over a period of time. Better to get revenge in divorce court.
@donprice90502 ай бұрын
I'm going to have nightmares. About that defense attorney.
@SoCalNative672 ай бұрын
Nobody involved in an affair deserves to die but you're definitely taking the chance of being hurt or killed. Get a divorce 1st because it's devastating for many & they never forget the pain.
@aromaladyellie19 күн бұрын
Don't have affairs. Don't run out on your partner unless they're abusive. Don't kill your partner after they ditch you in such a heartless way.
@crossedwires26292 ай бұрын
she still thinks she's the victim. her blubbering on the stand is so revolting.
@Anna-Bernadette2 ай бұрын
Why do women blame the mistress and not the spouse ?
@jerryjohnson7362 ай бұрын
It's born out of severe insecurity and a sense of rivalry. Tracey looked younger and prettier than her and she couldn't stand having been upgraded from by her husband.
@Anna-Bernadette2 ай бұрын
@jerryjohnson736 That makes sense.
@dk91022 ай бұрын
Both scenarios are very different mindsets. Women who blame the man ether move on or have a revenge mentality while women who go after the other woman still desperately want to be with the man see the other woman as a threat. Finding a way to get the other woman out of the picture is often the only way they believe they can get back to the guy
@svetikchum69882 ай бұрын
blame both, a cheater is bad and a home wrecker is bad
@karenneill91092 ай бұрын
@@jerryjohnson736it must be. I think if you have self confidence, you realize that it isn’t about you, it’s about him.
@LianeBrooklynFlgirl2 ай бұрын
Why was she released from psychiatric care? She wasn’t in a good state Breaking up is hurtful and more but it’s not worth taking a life and going to prison.
@svetikchum69882 ай бұрын
I mean shes older, probably gave her best years, has little beauty or skill set, may have had few relationships, its natural that this is living grief, you can not control other peoples reactions,, but you can make good decisions and control yourself.. he could have invested that time into the marriage,, into therapy or making it work, but its easier to cling to someone else with low self esteem to escape your reality
@AliValentine1432 ай бұрын
Money. The insurance companies own the USA, which is why it's mandatory to pay them.
@mish_elle14502 ай бұрын
because they need the beds there and you can't keep everyone in psychiatric care or a hospital indefinitely. These places have to prioritise patients where lets say she isn't in a good state of mind and is depressed, a new patient that is on suicide watch will need that bed more than her
@WHYISTHY2 ай бұрын
Worst defense I’ve ever seen
@waltquandt6226Ай бұрын
What choice did they have? Their client had more evidence against her than OJ.
@rebeccacoffman3497Ай бұрын
She had no defense
@anasi1509Ай бұрын
When someone says “he’s my whole life” it makes me cringe so hard. Whose fault is that you don’t value yourself and make someone else center or your life when nobody even asked for it. I imagine how miserable her husbands life was in a marriage with an empty human-looking shell
@frenchiesophie2 ай бұрын
Why wasn’t she get mad at her husband?!? Not saying she should have done something to him. HE was the one married to her!!
@missinchoate2 ай бұрын
Sadly, that happens A LOT. The woman getting mad at the other woman.
@summerbright27692 ай бұрын
That’s exactly what I was thinking why attack the other woman when she could have confronted the man who was cheating on her.as to my knowledge Men are always the initiates all the cheating. And not the other way around.
@richerDiLeftoАй бұрын
Whether the woman initiated the affair or not, she was still a home wrecker and knew better. I have no sympathy for her.
@susansage72182 ай бұрын
I’ve been cheated on too, if you’re pretty sure they’re not coming back (doesn’t want to seek counseling), just move on. Be sad sure, but what goes around, comes around - it will happen to them too.
@audreydaleski1067Ай бұрын
It never does. Not when your divorce lawyer does a 180 on you, on me. Dirty deals. Corruption.
@jrod1591Ай бұрын
Counseling does nothing for cheating. No one should even want to stay with a cheater. I’ve never heard anyone get cheated on and they stay and the relationship gets stronger… even though it’s a trope used by (money likely cheaters) people to try and get someone to stay.
@JosephSmith-xy4lp2 ай бұрын
You can't trust everyone you meet on the Internet but you can say the same about everyone you meet in person
@gravityslave62772 ай бұрын
What was the point in that comment? Lol that's a given.
@Jesusistheonlyway5492 ай бұрын
They shouldn’t have ever had an affair. It is beyond dangerous to crush other people.
@bjo8672 ай бұрын
My husband left me for someone else and it broke me for a minute then I moved on and looked forward to the future.
@noodlegunoblongata2 ай бұрын
it broke you luv, dont try make it sound ok
@tinawindham69582 ай бұрын
Made u stronger and happy you aren’t in this lady’s shoes!👍🏻
@strongfoot2009Ай бұрын
This is wisdom. 👍👍👏👏.
@Anna-zo2tv2 ай бұрын
I can't imagine letting another human being define my sense of self in this way. She displayed such a huge lack of emotional regulation and self control. Horrendous behaviour.
@_Y.Not_2 ай бұрын
You say that like this isn't part of being a human being, expecting emotional regulation and self control in the face of extreme trauma is naive and oblivious, human beings define their sense of self this way in many long term marriages, right or wrong, its just the degree that differs.
@Naturalworldlives2 ай бұрын
Your obviously very young or very naive. But yes she was extreme in her response.
@Stumpybear76402 ай бұрын
Immature and impetuous x
@Anna-zo2tv2 ай бұрын
@@_Y.Not_ Complete dependence on another human being for self worth and happiness is unhealthy.
@auggiedoggiesmommy17342 ай бұрын
We have no idea how much he wore her down
@mrich96542 ай бұрын
She ruined her life over a liar and a cheater .
@TheTeslacoilz2 ай бұрын
Im curious what their homelife was like prior to the seperation. Were they in seperate bedrooms? Living as basically roommates? Constantly arguing? Was she delusional in believing the marriage was fine? Or was he still kissing her goodnight as they shared a marital bed everynight? Was he unhappy but pretending everything was fine? Did she actually not see this coming? He should've left tracy alone once he realized he needed a protective order. Least until divorce was finalized.
@gravityslave62772 ай бұрын
He probably slept on the couch with a gun under his pillow. I would
@tabby73Ай бұрын
It sounded like Michelle did not see it coming. She was completely shocked and seemed to be stuck in that emotion still.
@theresenorwayАй бұрын
@@TheTeslacoilz Probably scared of her with good reasons.
@RaZhanBreonnaАй бұрын
She got so consumed in her heart with rage, revenge, anger, and jealousy. He didn’t want you, so you kill the woman HE chose over you. IT IS NOT WORTH GOING TO JAIL OVER SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T WANT YOU ANYMORE! Adultery is such a demonic, dangerous thing to commit!
@TaylorElizabethHuntАй бұрын
Murder is demonic and dangerous lol
@WMofM2 ай бұрын
If I were Tracy, I'd have ended that relationship immediately. I don't play that!
@shannonsullivan48582 ай бұрын
The defense attorney had some kind of vocal tick that was driving me up a wall!!!
@ItsMaisyDaisyАй бұрын
I can understand the anger. My ex husband cheated with th wife of one of his friends, agter 31 years of marriage, and eventually moved out. I detested both of them but the trashy hoe he went with was absolutely not worth my energy or worth serving any time for. The cheating scum bag of an ex wasn't worth a bit of effort either. The Bible says that vengeance is God's...not mine.
@DorothyZbornak-l4wАй бұрын
Doesn't the Bible also talk about not judging and here you are calling him names. Probably shouldn't quote from the Bible.
@katequinn9384Ай бұрын
Being heart broken and devastated doesn’t give one the right to kill, or physically attack anyone. Selfish woman!
@rebeccacoffman3497Ай бұрын
You said it.
@so.many.obstaclesАй бұрын
People, you can’t make someone else your entire world. You don’t own people, no matter the relationship.
@rebeccacoffman3497Ай бұрын
Exactly
@ceciliacrocker3902 ай бұрын
I have had my life disrupted in extreme ways at the hard of others but I never thought of taking anyone out for it...
@ginnyvanoh2 ай бұрын
No cheating partner is worth jail time.
@seandelap85872 ай бұрын
Silly judges handing out silly sentences how was this anything other than murder
@plants4thewin2 ай бұрын
People sleeping with other people's spouses...no matter how bad the marriage are playing a dangerous game.
@dashondajohnson68182 ай бұрын
Omg..HE LEFT.
@heatherstephens92952 ай бұрын
Absolutely 👍
@zannigan2222 ай бұрын
What a coward this guy is. Cheat on your wife and mother of your kids and then just dissappear, taking all of your belongings. Its unfortunate she did not see how she lost nothing of value.
@strongfoot2009Ай бұрын
The wife failed to satisfy him: grow up kid.
@chrismartin5450Ай бұрын
That is the story SHE told. Remember to take peoples stories as self serving.
@kathybuis436817 күн бұрын
Really? He probably figured out he was married to a psycho. He obviously wasn’t happy in their marriage so he left. His wife is the one that decided to kill someone.
@FooglerDoodgler2 ай бұрын
Her defense lawyer makes a weird as fuck noise after every sentence
@moimoi29942 ай бұрын
I can't imagine why her husband left her.
@cindy-hz2xb2 ай бұрын
😂😂😂
@lymarie19742 ай бұрын
🤣
@jesusisgod49922 ай бұрын
Oh yeah, the liar and cheat is such a prize. 🙄
@moimoi29942 ай бұрын
@@jesusisgod4992 atleast he's not a murderer js
@strongfoot2009Ай бұрын
SEX little BOY.
@velocepeyetАй бұрын
If he cheated on one woman chances are high he’ll repeat the same behaviour. Leopards don’t change their spots.
@whookidd19792 ай бұрын
That poor girl, she definitely did not deserve to have her life taken like that!!😢 My prayers are with her family.
@houston3562 ай бұрын
Guess she shouldn’t have been having an affair with a married man whose wife already threatened her shouldn’t she?
@thelemurofmadagascar918329 күн бұрын
Maybe she shouldn't have been a homewrecker.
@kurtvanluven93512 ай бұрын
I have been left several times. I say have a good life. Not wasting my time further.
@amandajanebush49392 ай бұрын
Michelle’s lawyer says “mhm” after almost every sentence drove me nuts
@lillyofthenorth87982 ай бұрын
Oh good I'm not the only one who noticed this. It must be something involuntary, maybe a tic?
@cassideestewart73332 ай бұрын
I know a couple people that do this and they don’t realize it. Totally involuntary.
@K4lt2 ай бұрын
most likely the lawyer has a stutter and is mentally working to not stutter.
@avirmoore44052 ай бұрын
Okay just thought I was tripping!!..
@nanaingallswilder73632 ай бұрын
@@K4ltthat’s what I was thinking. She is speaking deliberately. I admire her for pursuing work that requires public speaking.
@TheUltimateRage2 ай бұрын
Imagine how unhinged she must have been in the relationship for him to just up and leave and to respond by committing this heinous act. You gotta be careful af who you let into your life, especially someone you decide to marry and reproduce with. Mfs is out here out of their minds yo........
@FullTimePatient372 ай бұрын
Thank you for uploading ❤❤❤
@LisaPeterson2272 ай бұрын
I would be upset, another woman driving the vehicle in both of our names. She could have reported it stolen. Other than that she should have moved on.
@sandey42Ай бұрын
Great video. Thank you! I’ve heard about this case before but you included details that I hadn’t heard before. Thank you for your hard work
@jondembo511Ай бұрын
Obviously she started stabbing her immediately after opening the trucks door. Otherwise the victim would have shut the trucks door and locked it. She isnt going to just sit in her seat belt waiting for the crazy lady to come back. She already had the knife in her hand and struck immediately. Disgusting sickening
@julieannesimms9812 ай бұрын
Don,t get involved with married men full stop separated or not
@bkaips2 ай бұрын
Nothing that ticks me off more than pathetically weak individuals who can't let relationships go...so they retaliate. What a POS.
@Rubycella2 ай бұрын
Right
@_Y.Not_2 ай бұрын
Most people can let a relationship "go", its when it is done cruelly, with thorough rejection of someone whose sense of self is tied with his (as it is in many long term marriages) that people break, its just the degree of breakdown that differs, yours is a very surface comment that lacks basic understanding of human emotions.
@wholewheatstingray2 ай бұрын
Right? They were married for 20 years and he ran off with someone he met (and was cheating with) online, while she was at work. That's not a normal breakup. @@_Y.Not_
@wholewheatstingray2 ай бұрын
Of course it does, you have a sick obsession with victims. Your subscriptions are very telling "Brenda". 🤮
@lilydawn365Ай бұрын
This is why i do not get with a married man who just separated from his wife.
@ryanshort94702 ай бұрын
23 minute ads? KZbin sucks soo much nowadays
@tinalouiseking2 ай бұрын
Get premium...it's so worth it❤
@gravityslave62772 ай бұрын
I remember when we got just ONE 9 second ad every other video. @tinalouiseking Why should be pay to avoid gratuitous ads. That's extortion
@SugaryPhoenixxxАй бұрын
@@tinalouiseking I'll never pay youtube another penny until they stop censoring everything.
@Burusagi2 ай бұрын
Not gonna defend her at all, but the husband’s a total ass for doing what he did.
@elanierothenberger24672 ай бұрын
Why attack the other woman? Move on and improve your outlook in life including yourself!
@timothycurrier25232 ай бұрын
Moral of the story get divorced before you start messing with someone else
@dashondajohnson68182 ай бұрын
She would have still killed the woman..SHE IS CRAZY. waiting on a divorce wasn't going to change that😂
@rachelsill79Ай бұрын
@dashondajohnson6818 that's nothing more than an uneducated guess. 🤡