WILL IT RUN? 1969 PONTIAC 350 Step 1-Make it Run Right! Make some dyno Pulls! Make Some Poncho Power

Pontiac Power! 1969 Pontiac 350-Will it run? This was a motor I purchased from a friend who said they thought it ran, but maybe not well! I brought it down to Westech Performance and hoped for the best! The first start up was not promising! Couple of dead holes-so it was time to figure things out! Check out the video where I covered how I went about solving the issues and what happened when we finally made some noise! How much power does a low compression, mild cam 350 Poncho motor actually make? What happens when you start to tune it?

[@davidmarshall8628]

I'd like to see it tested with the good factory Pontiac intake, a Quadrajet and a Summit 2801 cam.

[@chewycvma2468]

Firstly, thanks for highlighting the Pontiac 350! It's an engine that gets little love from many in the Poncho community. Based on experience with my '68 350 (No.17 heads), I'd say you have some kind of "204" or RV cam in that motor. Hopefully, you'll get some good content out of your '69. We Pontiac folks really appreciate the effort!

[@terrypetty9822]

I think it's over-cammed so for that I'd try raising the compression a tad. So next episode maybe put a set of dedicated 350P head gaskets on it from Cometic that fit the bore and variable thicknesses, new valves (to maximize CR) with performance valve job and a garage bench port job. Benefits: Can achieve quench along with more compression for better torque, higher upper end airflow from the bench port job. Maybe a small to moderate re-surface of the head. WIN-WIN.

[@wayneskelly4297]

My iron head flat tappet 350P went 12.4s at 8.8 comp. Current aluminum head/ roller cam 350P has been 10.99@121 through the mufflers!

[@ericthompson3551]

Are you running Edelbrock heads ? All I’ve ever read is that valve shrouding due to the smaller bore makes power gained negligible. Basically spending $2000 to only save some weight.

[@wayneskelly4297]

@@ericthompson3551 I am running KRE d-ports on the current 350. Got them as bare castings and designed my own chambers using a 3.91" bore fixture on the flow bench. Eddy d-ports with the CNC chambers are an absolute disaster on the small bore fixture. Getting started on a 350 based 4.25 stroke 412 build. Bought a set of Eddy RPM heads for it. Have a 2.08/1.57 valve combo in it....both of which free drop down the small bore. Currently at 336cfm @.700 with the 3.91 bore. Thinking the 412 is gonna make some power. 😁

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Running that 350P in a small car?

[@wayneskelly4297]

@@buzzwaldron6195 73 Ventura street car. 3450lbs w/driver

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@wayneskelly4297 - Yep, a lightweight...

[@pancudowny]

Using a needle-style vacuum gauge as it's running would give the clearest tell-tale sign if the problem is valve related, simply by watching how the needle fluctuates during idle and as throttle is increased. Then, you just refer back to the gauge reading guide, and you'll have a clear idea how to further diagnose the engine.😉

[@sanchoc4860]

Bout time for some BOP action again!

[@hannibalbarca8670]

Richard is the man. PMD all day

[@lars277]

I had a 71 Firebird with a 350 2 barrel. I always wanted to modify, but did not have the cash at that point . I always felt like engine was bullet proof and would make good power if built right. Would love to see more mods, normally aspirated mods. I love the old Pontiac engines.

[@tonytronto777]

Nice to see Pontiac engine up on the dyno. Love to see aluminum cylinder heads how about a ram air 4 cam with 1.65 rocker arms.Then boost!

[@danielsullivan9865]

Love to see everything tested cams, heads, compression, and turbo boost. Then add a big stroker rotating assembly.

[@ThePontiacgto65]

Super Pontiac engines in the spotlight 🤩 all the V8 Pontiac are made with this block,not a small block not a big block but a strong block.😁. the rare 6 in line sohc was a very nice mechanic too

[@ComfortablyNumb1969]

Getting an OEM intake wouldn't mind seeing how much better on a 350. I've seen on another channel the 400 poncho OEM manifold was significantly better than the Performer. Also a comparison to the Performer RPM would be in order.

[@markstopkey4085]

The Pontiac 350 and 400 are some of my favorite engines.

[@doolallyproductions7234]

Don't care what you do just keep that classic pontiac blue

[@eatshit8907]

First test a factory intake. Port/mill the 47s or Kauffman d ports, and something like a powermax 278 cam with 1.65 rockers. Then a turbo!

[@hayden6056]

#47 heads on a 350 is around 8-8.5:1 usually. They were rated higher compression but usually werent. Small valve stocker head. They were rated at 265 with a 4 barrell the extra 20hp could be the manifold or an 066 cam.

[@richardholdener1727]

the rated power was tested differently than this

[@hayden6056]

@@richardholdener1727 definitely was , gross vs net. 71 from memory , don't know how bigger difference it made .

[@pontiacjeff]

The 1969 350 with 47 heads was originally equipped with a 2bbl carb, is advertised 9.2:1 compression and rated at 265hp. The addition of a 4bbl carb and mild cam and headers would typically bring the horsepower up to over 300. Kind of surprised it only made 283.

[@billcat1840]

The hot ticket is the 6x heads with the number 4 stamped on the exhaust side of a bolt riser..they have 91cc chambers and raise the compression on a 400...I did this.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

Yeah they make for about 8.2:1 on a typical 400, which is better than the large chamber heads with 7.5:1... those 6x4 really shine on a 455 tho, where they make for nearly 10:1

[@russelljackson7034]

Right on

[@michaelgarrow3239]

The shortest zoomies I have ever seen.

[@brianlafollette7530]

The air flow curves made a very nice river that would be fun to float down.

[@ChrisLincolnHomes]

Thanks for running a Pontiac. Always happy when you do.

[@Selkirk69]

Edie heads 230/236 cam rpm manifold, 670 demon carb, 1 3/4 headers 9 1/2 pistons

[@johndelta00]

Its turbo time!

[@jesseduke694]

"It ain't got no gas in it"!

[@dadalebreton184]

Wallace racing specs sheet advertise the 68' 350 and 400ci 2bbl small valves "17" 9.2(350) and "14" 8.5(400) comp. heads, both at 265 gross HP, The 350-4bbl H-O 10.5 small valves "18" heads was 320 gross HP. In 69' the 350ci 2bbl "47" is the same 265hp and the 4bbl 10.5 Big valves jumped 5hp to 325hp with the "48" heads. According to Pontiac specs, all 350ci HO had the 68 camshaft. And the 1974 GTO 350 had 200hp NET with the small valves 96cc "46" (4c) 2H Heads and the 066 Camshaft. I have a 66 Starchief Executive with the factory YF-389CI 4bbl 325hp and 425fp with the 092 small valves heads with 10.5 compression with the 066 camshaft. You know that it was all advertised HP amd Torque sometime to show off more, or to show less to pass federal inspection. One thing i know is when i let go the gas on my Starchief is that i tought I had broken the speedometer since it was old and i had to count like 10+sec to see it rise from the dept of the Dashboard. It's advertised at 133mph and I know I was going even faster with the BM's 18" wheels I put on with the resto-mods restauration I did on it. My cousin have a 2006 Maxima and He couldn't follow me on the strech. On the Dyno like that, it's 283 gross HP I think, still around the 220 net HP with that 4bbl. I think It as a 066 camshaft from the straight Torque curve. I think the 068 or any aftermarket with the same specs should have got a little steeper curve. Specialy at low RPM with a bigger drop for the afterburst bigger duration and lift of the 068. But again, I maybe totaly in the ballpark or in the field. No clue on what's been done to the intake, the heads port, gasket matching. Your the Expert with the Engine in your shop. Nice content.

[@allenl9031]

Was quite the paint shaker at the start. Love that Pontiac blue.

[@exploranator]

You should hit the sweet spot for the no-headers powerband at about 50,000 RPM, yeah? Since the cam peaks in torque at 3800 or so, I'd say it's most likely stock.-ish? Run a turbo on it, but for a change, make a it tiny turbo and turn this into a stump-pulling-torque motor. Spooling at 250 RPM, it should be great fun!

[@rimka11]

And stroke it, and decrease compression ratio to something below 8 to 1 for it to function with ridiculous backpressure. And limit RPM to something like 4000, to not to explode the small turbo.

[@scotttimpany2845]

Poncho powuh!

[@jhutch1470]

Mine's running funny with a miss fire. I have ruled out that it's not fuel. New plugs did not help, all wires were checked, as well as timing was backed down 6 degrees. I guess I will also have to change out my distributor cap and rotor and see if that straightens it up. Oh, I also did a compression check and all was good. The timing chain and gears are new, as well as all the lifters. This problem didn't arise until the year after I did the gears and lifters. I was already thinking it was in the distributor. My engine is a 72 Pontiac 350 in my 72 Lemans. It just turned 90,000 miles. I was daily driving it until this problem popped up. EDIT: Thank you so much Richard for videos like this. They are a huge help.

[@mikewilkes7831]

Probably have a wire on distributor in wrong place or check valve clearance take off valve cover

[@GTOFERN]

Love, love, love seeing Pontiacs on your channel! There is a factory Pontiac 350 HO aluminum intake manifold that exists and I’ve always been curious to see if it’s better than the Performer. Maybe you can borrow one from someone? Would also love to see how the 350 works with a factory cast iron manifold with a Q jet

[@pancudowny]

Richard... you know what Pontiac did before totally abandoning their V-8s, and that you should do the same on this one (With EFI!😉) to see how what the Poncho 350 could've done if turbo-charged from the factory in a "What if...?" scenario.

[@richardholdener1727]

see the post today

[@daveynipples]

Thinking for starters, raise the compression with maybe another set of factory heads/thinner gaskets, with a cam upgrade, and see what you get. Shouldn’t cost much to play that hand.

[@Charlie_Prinz]

Time for a cam swap !!!!!!

[@nysuff]

OLDSMOBILE ENGINE NEXT

[@teamraptor4351]

I'd love to see this engine with ported Edelbrock heads ,about 10.5:1 and a David Vizard spec cam.

[@takeit2-11]

turbo magnum! turbo magnum! turbo magnum! great videos thank you! I thought a chant might help...

[@wtdonovan]

I had to pull down my old chilton for a look a the factory numbers. This engine with the 2bbl rated GROSS 265hp at 4600 and 325lbft at 2800. Compared to stock, It made similar numbers at a higher rev and a performer intake- That's wild. The cam must be quite small and unable to take advantage of the 4bbl. I have a set of the 1968 #17 heads and used to have a set of 47s. They looked comparable although the 68s had a 30 degree intake valve seat and the 69s had a 45 degree seat. Unfortunately I only measured the #17s but they were a little over 85cc chamber. This setup is likely very low compression in spite of the printed. 9.2 to 1 numbers. It will be interesting to see how big these heads chambers are but it's probably barely over 8 to 1. I'd love to see cam testing along the lines of a 2800 and a 2801 along with a modern performance roller. Maybe some porting and bigger valves on the heads and high compression. A comparison of Stock, performer, RPM and Torquer II intakes. Boost on the engine as it stands from the baseline setup? Basically your regular playbook because it's awesome and gets to the point. Love it.

[@elainestamper3873]

Up compression with stock smaller chamber Pontiac heads add better cam and make power

[@AIR_RAM_PERF]

Boost it!

[@therefactory8114]

I have a 1969 Tempest with the base V8, the 2bl 350 V8. As stated above it was 265 hp stock and supposed 9.25 compression. It seems a little weak for this motor to be 4bl converted with a performer intake. Factory cam it should idle smooth as silk. I would love to see Edelbrock heads with the factory cam, valves supposedly might hit, but some people have done it.

[@bassettraceengines]

Great work Richard !!! I would like to see aftermarket heads and cam . Thanks

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

It will make power if Mr holdener is in charge - proverbs 14.7

[@scottersandman6408]

i have an old car mag where a .030 over poncho 350 made 570+ NA horsepower.....over 650 w/ squeeze

[@wayneskelly4297]

That one made 539 na. Since then 2 other builds have made 585hp and 571hp 😊

[@buschenterprises4788]

edel performer rpm, hyd roller, and some decent pistons with modern ring technology

[@craigmcdonel8636]

I'd love to see some moderate aluminum heads and a strong torque cam installed and tested. Also would like to know what pistons are in it.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

I'd love to see this tested with log style manifolds VS Ram Air manifolds VS headers. I'd like to see if those Ram Air manifolds actually are as good as the Pontiac guys claim.

[@Boatanchorperformance]

I believe someone did do the test with shorty headers. The Ram Air Manifolds only made 1hp less than shorty headers and had the same amount of torque. Long tubes I believe made 16 hp more (I forgot the torque numbers).

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

@@Boatanchorperformance that's better than I thought they'd do, to be honest. I knew they'd be better than logs, but I didn't think they'd be on par with shorties

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

@@Boatanchorperformance and I say that as someone who mostly prefers to use iron manifolds over headers when possible just because they're less headache lol

[@BrandonLeeBrown]

The 350 Pontiac compares well with the 389. The stock 350 has 354 cubic inches. The 350 has better cylinder head ports than the 389 and the push rod guide plates keep the valve train more stable than the 389. The 350 4 barrel has a better carb and intake manifold than the 389. The two barrel camshaft has the pre-1965 70 percent lobes, while the 4 barrel version got the newer, more aggressive 75 percent cam lobes that came out with the 4 barrel and tri-power 389 and 421 engines of 1965. That is, the cam duration at 0.050" cam lift is 75 percent of the SAE 0.006" valve lift duration, not the advertised duration. This can be compared in older Melling catalogs. Throughout the 1960's, the two barrel Pontiac engines continued to use the older 70 percent duration 2 barrel camshaft, which was also used in all 4 barrel 326 engines.

[@jonathanduke8295]

Maybe a cam and heads test. Sir

[@larryw5429]

Right their with HP numbers with listed 350 HO motor in firebirds!

[@richardholdener1727]

those make more than this

[@TheCptTrenchfoot]

Nice numbers from what is at most an 067 cam, or possibly even a stock one. Would love to see you come back to this engine again and do more with it NA. Oem 4 barrel intake and qjet, then try a few different cams!

[@richardholdener1727]

COMING

[@TheCptTrenchfoot]

@@richardholdener1727 looking forward to it!

[@kylejackson1236]

Yes it needs boost

[@70sport37]

Would be interesting to see if the stock ex. Manifolds would change anything ?

[@thetriode]

Part way through the video, going to make a bold prediction that you'll pull the intake off and find out that there is a drain hole plugged causing the lobe to go dry and you're without a cam lobe. Those 47 heads are a decent starting point, I bet they'd shave down really nicely. My 71 has 96es at 96cc. ED:Nice to see she ran, looking good on the power too for so few mods. The reduced timing is the long rod theory kicking in. :P I ran the Summit 214/224 on mine, it was pretty decent and not a ton of money. Obviously not period correct but it was useable on a stock non-adjustable valve train which was nice. I probably never lived up to the potential of it as I broke it in on stock springs and never really changed them out.

[@richardholdener1727]

long rod...that's a good one

[@916chevyboy]

Sounds like an old aviation R-# powerplant! 🎉😊

[@WVXL64]

Im thinking stock cam. Those heads belong on that engine, has 8.6 compression, and was rated at 265hp. With the way youre testing it with headers, its probably the factory stock camshaft.

[@patrickwendling6759]

350 are considered to be Boat Anchor's. Small bore, long stroke, 150lbs heavier then a sbc.. same block as a 400 455

[@mikewilkes7831]

Also very reliable

[@AEtrane]

People that think this are in a word, wrong.

[@rimka11]

Not on this engine, but when you have an opportunity with a turbo engine already on dyno stand, test how much power can and engine loose with a small boost leak. For example a small vacuum tube unplugged. Or just a bit loose clamp. And also, to the same theme, how much power a turbo engine can loose with an exhaust leak in between head and turbo.

[@bcbloc02]

in my experience boost leaks amount to very little unless its a pretty decent leak, like blowing bubbles leak won't show up but an air blast sure will.

[@stearlers069]

Stroke it and boost it. 🙂

[@brucefrye8799]

All boost plz

[@billfisher1999]

First get the book by Jim Hand, or by Rocky Rotella and tweak the heck out of it. Carb, head work, proper cam match. Etc

[@johndorlando1630]

Richard, how about modernizing in a bit? Efi, heads hydraulic roller,little compression. See if it will make close to modern LS type horsepower.

[@benkrom2737]

69 stock 350 I believe is 269 hp so not bad.

[@jamessharp9790]

Aftermarket heads and hydraulic rollers cam

[@InnocentMiscreant]

Mill the heads and get some compression ratio then more camshaft

[@tonyrasmussen2265]

Cam change, possibly heads change???

[@calvincrews3885]

These Pontiac 350 small blocks need some luv and horsepower it’s different but similar to the Chevrolet 350 but correct me if I’m wrong

[@richardholdener1727]

planned

[@stevenphilpott1493]

1969 350 HO made 325hp

[@jasonschagt640]

I would love to port the dual plane intake if you put some aluminum heads on it. I have done plenty of dual plane intakes. All breads of them

[@johnb7430]

I really like seeing this type of video. (Taking an unknown provenance engine from turd to terror)

[@xz3757]

Compare this stock Pontiac 350 to the stock 350 chevy, 351 ford and 360 mopar. It would be a nice comparison.

[@scotthultin7769]

If you can find one put the stock intake on

[@bermanss350]

I would assume a 220ish comp cam, those valve springs and retainers looked to be a kit

[@raggetheman]

Make that thing turn 7-grand without blowing up!

[@socoden2732]

Hey Rich any DIY budget builds for 2023 ..?

[@richardholdener1727]

LIKE THE PONTIAC TURBO KIT I JUST DID?

[@babayegajaeger7082]

Add a cam.RA4

[@GoatPilot04]

What are the biggest differences in design and potential, strengths and weaknesses of this vs the Chevy 350? Lemme guess...upcoming video? Lol

[@corvettejohn4507]

Richard, your '69 350 when stock with its factory 2bbl carb and intake was rated at 265 bhp gross. So 285 bhp gross is about what I would expect for this engine with a 4 bbl intake and carb. So, I'd say it probably still has the stock teeny tiny cam. How many inches of vacuum are you getting at idle?

[@richardholdener1727]

not sure I have vacuum hooked up on the dyno-til we ran boost

[@GoatPilot04]

Hey Richard I tried finding your email to shoot you a question for sime guidance thats a little too long form of an answer for KZbin probably, do you have an email for that? Thanks man! GREAT VIDEO!

[@cannonroberts5129]

What would 12.8-13.2 AFR give us?

[@richardholdener1727]

nothing

[@buschenterprises4788]

timing?

[@erickbernard8208]

Hey hey hey

[@stevenphilpott1493]

pontiacs base 350 made 265hp

[@atenooie]

GT45 China Turbo for a Start?

[@atenooie]

Thanks for doing exactly that in the next video 👍

[@rimka11]

And for NA engine, there are some things to test, but that its not for a single cam OHV. For a double cam engine: 1. Would a massively retarded intake cam (intake close time ~ 100 degree after BDC) will make the engine function as an Atkinson cycle. For this the intake cam should be a lot higher duration than stock, to not to mess up the intake opening angle. The question would be, how much power you then sacrifice for how much MPG gain? 2. Just to have fun, with the same type of engine. How an engine behaves with a ridiculously high overlap. I mean 60 - 80 - 100 degree. Will it run, how it sounds at idle and WOT, will it shoot flames?

[@craigroiosr3205]

Put Pontiac 400 heads on it.

[@vmuv615]

put a turbocharger on in and better heads

[@hondatech5000]

Give it the old turbo motor acid test and hit it with 200 shot if it lives gap the rings and go 7875 😂

[@bobqzzi]

BOOST

[@Geoduck.]

Heads and cam..... like always please?

[@manitoublack]

Turbo it

[@bgee461]

Excellent content, love old pontiac content

[@skymit5519]

You should have gone leaner! You know it would be meaner!

[@richardholdener1727]

we did-it did not get meaner

[@erickbernard8208]

Twin compounds 😂😂😂

[@georgemontgomery9422]

Interesting challenge. Your dyno results screams stock engine with simple bolt on's. If you are really lucky the engine has never been rebuilt.

[@thegdfp6447]

Boost, duh! 3 junkyard M90s on a plenum.

[@jesseduke694]

Aint nobody make no power with a pontiac!

[@stevenphilpott1493]

in 69

[@stevenphilpott1493]

the 350HO made 325 hp

[@studbolt5627]

Do a leaning Tower of power

[@MisterD213]

Boost it!