Chevy vs Ford V8 Showdown! Small-Block or Windsor? | Engine Masters | MotorTrend

Freiburger, Dulcich and Steve Brule pit the 351 Windsor Ford against the classic 350 small block Chevy! Watch the full episode right now on MotorTrend! ➡️ bit.ly/2GlBdjL
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[@MotorTrendWatch]

What surprised you most about these tests?

[@yamfingaz5598]

The fact that you are reposting old content is probably the most surprising, or maybe it isn't 🤔

[@MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS]

Engines are air pumps and the same design and dimensions with a different logo will reproduce the same results. Except the Chevy will weigh less, fit more places and have a lower center of gravity.

[@MilkMan608]

​@yamfingaz5598 What information of value have you posted,?

[@DeusTex-Mex]

@@MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS How do you figure? they both weigh just over 500lb when in stock all-iron form. And the 351w is about 2 inches narrower.... have you ever seen them on stands side-by-side?

[@billyjoejimbob56]

In stock configuration, the Ford has .256 inch longer rods, accounting for some but not all of the .472 inch greater deck height.

[@alexcorona]

Thank you for actually using a 351, every other magazine always tests the 302 vs a 350 which is not a fair comparison.

[@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488]

FR. I've noticed that as well. If you want to compare apples to apples the displacement has to be close. I'd like to see a 5.0 ho build up against a similarly spec'd 305

[@turbo4zetec]

It’s always been that way. They used to compare the the 5.0l to the sb350 and the 351w to the 454. GM’s motors always seem to be bigger in displacement compared to their competition. Overcompensating is the way.

[@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953]

@@turbo4zetec Ford 460 ci,, Chevy 454,, really dude??

[@3751britishcolumbia]

​@@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953you're not understanding what he's saying. He said that Chevy engines are usually compared to the smaller engine of their competitors. Nobody is comparing a 454 to the 460 because there is no comparison. That's why the 454 is usually compared to the 351w or something smaller.

[@alvin7089]

I've read this statement before... Dollar per dollar chevy wins. Mod per mod ford takes it every time. Ford is better than chevy hands down. 302 is better than 305. 351 is better than 350. And 460 is better than 454. I've read in forums word per word page per page. And equally sized and modded ford will out power and live a chevy.

[@jojog8304]

Winner: AFR. Heads made both shine.

[@I_like_turtles_67]

Did they both have AFR 195s?

[@B1Springfield]

Right you are lol. That’s why it wasn’t a 351C in this test

[@alertgasper]

it does help equalize the comparison. would be fun to run a vortec 350 against a 351W with GT40P heads, but Richard Holdener has likely done it already.

[@thefounding5879]

They are not the same. That distributor being in the front makes life sooooooo much easier.

[@jeremypike9153]

​​@@bigboreracing356 unless you are the guy working on the distributor. Try swapping out distributors when they are under the cowl. Check out a dodge ram 318/360 they absolutely suck to do. Chevy wasn't as bad they didn't build the car over top of the distributor.

[@mdingle11]

​@Pike one vehicle they did block the distributor pretty good was the Buick roadmaster. Sister in law had one and I had to do the ICM on it. What a pain.

[@chewybrand238]

Any engine with the distributer in front! Thanks, Ford!

[@youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601]

Or......you could step into the last century.

[@Texasmule]

​@@bigboreracing356 distributor in the back also just go smooth with crank physics

[@Trenton-om9qs]

I'm a Ford guy and I'd personally take the 351 Windsor. But both are legendary engines and both are respectable

[@silicon212]

I'm kinda partial to the 350 myself, but that 351W is an excellent engine. Honestly, they're pretty closely matched in both performance and reliability.

[@retrocompaq5212]

its not the cleveland that you want to get? my friend had a windsor in his foxbody and i swear any fwd car with 130hp or more was faster, my friend always said, on day ill get the cleveland and people wont laugh anymore... my chevy cobalt made a full 4 sec quicker on the 1/4 mile, it was that bad

[@silicon212]

@@retrocompaq5212 The Cleveland has better flowing factory heads for sure, but the Windsor is a stronger overall platform.

[@polchinski123]

Id rather have a 351 cleveland but a windsor would do

[@MrSlimeMan01]

@@retrocompaq5212 Cleveland can handle more power on stock block, that’s why people want them over the windsors. As for why your friends fox was so slow, that’s probably because it was stock af. I’ve got a 351w in my 84 fox and it definitely hurts some feelings lol

[@ConcussedGaming]

What a badass test! Love engine masters and both of these guys too! Been watching since Roadkill season 1. Episode one and I can never get enough of these two!

[@SANDSCORCHER]

Amen to that Sir 😎👍🏻

[@314jeepsnmopars3]

Now you guys just need to get a Mopar 360 on here as close to spec too.

[@rnrsteev]

how about the 318? isn't that considered one of the most underated?

[@Welcometofacsistube]

340

[@314jeepsnmopars3]

@@rnrsteev I loved the 318 Magnum in my old ZJ Grand Cherokee. I suggested the 360 since it's the closest in displacement to these. But it's a great engine too.

[@dond5103]

Yeah, it's only fair.

[@thomasmcghee2468]

340 is pound for pound a beast when built right

[@Intimidator82]

Did anyone else notice the glowing #5 header pipe on the SBC? Looks like it was a tad on the lean side, but thats hard to fine tune using a carburetor

[@tonyelliott7734]

Excess fuel burning in the header pipe.

[@hugieflhr03]

Exhaust valve might be a little too tight.

[@skiptastic1000]

All I hear is excuses .... FORD RULZZZ. CHEVY DROOOOOOLLLZ

[@Intimidator82]

@@hugieflhr03 yeah, never thought of that, good point.

[@brandonbell433]

@@skiptastic1000 not making a excuse but I mean. The ford did have more compression AND more cubic inch but only made 5 more HP 🤷‍♂️. That’s not really impressive

[@r000tbeer]

No surprise. With all components being fairly equal, it only makes sense the output is equal as well. After that it's just about which brand you want to give your money to.

[@stevethomas1301]

Would be nice to see Cleveland 4V or Clevor in the mix

[@B1Springfield]

AFR wouldn’t sell heads lol. Richard Holdner did a dyno test of a 1970 M code 351C and well: 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, stock heads, headers, distributor, e-water pump, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb 240/246 duration cam (xe284h comp) Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake 450hp/411ftlb Factory 4v iron closed chamber heads

[@mikemustang5488]

Or even better a Cleveland with good aftermarket heads like CHI.

[@B1Springfield]

@@mikemustang5488 wouldn’t be fair at that point lol

[@Mr.Schitzengigglez]

The 4 bolt main conversion for the Windsor, made it practically indestructible. And, the advancements in the 8.8" rear, make an old grocery getter capable of walking on what we used to build in the 80s, out of a cleveland/9" combination.

[@jameshathaway5117]

​@carminereddYou forgot the lsd 8.8 Explorer rear! I myself am guilty of sticking them in more than one place they don't belong. I narrowed and rebuilt one for my buddy's DD 65 Barracuda and it has taken more clutch drops than I care to count with just shy of 400hp.

[@drtb69]

Don't even need a 4 bolt main windsor just arp bolts or studs will hold up to 750hp fine

[@1VaDude]

A very good comparison. You can't go wrong with either engine.

[@oscrthgrch7]

Back in the early 1980s the gap between Ford and Chevrolet small block engines was much greater because the factory cylinder heads for Chevrolets had a much better exhaust port than the Windsor head, and affordable aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads were still years away. I bought a set of Brodix street heads for my Camaro in 1987 because I had the money and they were ready for unleaded gas. But a few years later companies were selling aftermarket Ford heads that were much, much better than anything that had been on the market up until then, which really narrowed the gap.

[@ProjectFairmont]

Not so much by 1982. The OEM HO cam, and the factory (‘87-‘95) E7 heads with porting and a 5 angle valve grind worked pretty well.

[@oscrthgrch7]

@@ProjectFairmont But that stuff was still rare and expensive when compared to the availability of some of the better factory SBC heads like the 292 "Turbo" heads. It's too bad too, it could have saved my brother so much trouble when compared to the work he did to put a 351 Cleveland in his '66 Mustang.

[@bowez9]

You forgot Ford had Fuel Injection and was competing 302 v 350. Stock for stock Ford is better. If you choose to ditch the GM parts it can be better.

[@ChuckThree]

It’s all generation and they take turns. Ford Flathead over Chevy Chevy SBC over Ford Y Block Ford 5.0 over Chevy TPI Chevy LS over Ford Mod Ford Coyote over Chevy LT

[@ProjectFairmont]

@@ChuckThree Well said.

[@RULE3O3]

Ford Chev or Chrysler V8. Doesn't matter. They all still sound better than the tumble dryer motor in a Tesla

[@ErickaC-mc7vg]

Would love to see a 340 dressed out the same and see how it compares.

[@kensterfr33k]

the 340 is highly race oriented. a 360 would be better suited to compare against these

[@conhemi50]

Mopar would make them look silly in my oppinion.

[@johnhickman106]

@@conhemi50 351C enters the chat.

[@badgerbait8351]

Why I like building the SBC back in the day: More OE head options, and steel crankshafts and 4-bolt main caps were common.

[@jeremypike9153]

It's just easier to find power cheaply with O.E. parts on a Chevy. The same can be made with the Ford but using O.E. parts it gets expensive really quickly. Aftermarket parts wise it really doesn't matter because they are pretty much the same cost wise for equivalent parts.

[@mavmo192]

Never made sense to me to cut your throat on the fan blade just to time a chevy.

[@mariocooldude9092]

And dude .. distributor in the rear!!!! Only way to fly!!! Probably another reason the small Chevy is the #1 choice for hot rod builders... aesthetically much much better

[@chrismathes3647]

Lmao great for setting an engine further back too 🤣

[@badgerbait8351]

This allows the driver to adjust timing from the cockpit!

[@robertberube2551]

Great comparison test. The taller deck of the Windsor allows for a much longer connecting rod. The 351M/400 rod with that combination would be an interesting build.

[@cammontreuil7509]

The M rod is too long. And even if you could make a custom piston, the pin would be in the compression ringland area. The M rods are wide at the big end, they would have to be cut.

[@TLH442]

Longer rods. Is that an advantage? What about high rpm horsepower? Longer rods are heavy reciprocating components so mass is critical. Just like pistons and connecting rods. Lighter is better. In GP power, its all about the RPM.

[@samuelriester1419]

One other thing that could be contributing to the horsepower difference is the distributor location. If you are getting your timing from the distributor, the further away from the timing chain the distributor is it will have more timing deflection the higher the RPM due to the pressure from moving the valves creating a torsional twist on the camshaft. If you are using crank trigger ignition, this does not matter, and from what I have seen as far as it being measured, it's only been detectable at very high RPMs usually starting around 7k, but for a horsepower difference. As small as you all saw, this could contribute I believe.

[@stevesuminski669]

Sorry but that's not true

[@scottb8175]

With the best factory production OEM iron heads available for each engine family, the Chevy would have a huge advantage on a Windsor Ford. The aftermarket heads definitely even the score. The stock Windsor heads just weren't designed with big flow and power in mind. Of course, an equivalent build level OEM iron head Boss 351 would put the hurt to any stock iron head 350 SBC.

[@nowwaynamenit]

Amazing they both are air pumps with the same displacement very cool to see play out.

[@ricksmith7659]

Now let's see a 283 sbc vs a 289 sbf!

[@SealofPerfection]

Well, since they make 1.2hp per cube, roughly....multiply 1.2 x 6 and that'll be the difference.

[@twolak1972]

HAHAHA you re kidding right. 289 SBF would eat the pooch 283. 289 is capable of 400 + Hp.

[@ricksmith7659]

@@twolak1972 I was referring to a cubic inch vs cubic inch comparison

[@tylervaughn6328]

Right what difference would you expect

[@addictedtorust3487]

Fair test . To often I hear the chevy guys comparing the 350 to the 302

[@chrispokorney6801]

Yea Chevy guys are notorious for that because they know what happens when you use a fair comparison using the 351 vs 350. Lol It's not their fault that their dads brainwashed them. Lol😂😂

[@feron450]

Great video. Would have been cool to add in a mopar 360 in there aswell just for comparison.

[@MotorTrendWatch]

Good idea!

[@dandunning4409]

360? A bit of an advantage over a 351 W or a 350 ya think. Maybe a 340 Mopar but not a big block 360 compared to two small blocks.

[@god1st.530]

@@MotorTrendWatch Nah we good on the Gen I mopor test. It's a reason why Gm and Ford small block or Big blocks are raced and use for power deals.

[@jameshathaway5117]

​@@dandunning4409360 "big block"... 340 is a good comparison to the 350/351... WTF are you talking about?😂😅 the 360 has way too low compression to be a good comparison and the original 340 is way too high...

[@dandunning4409]

@@jameshathaway5117 WTF are you talking about !!! Calm down KAREN. Not including a Mopar was not fair. I'm a Ford guy 100% but it would have been nice to include something from Mopar and the 360 was just a suggestion so STFU!

[@DBSSTEELER]

Watch Richard Holdner's videos. He proves time and again that brand does not matter. Similar head flow, cam timing, displacement, and compression will all make similar power.

[@karenthomson9749]

NO CHEV IS ALWAYS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!

[@mikecarr1378]

@@karenthomson9749 lol........

[@Techcensorshipbot]

It would be cool to see you guys do modern vs old school 1960-1970s shoot out of comparable setups. I’m dumb so maybe it would be a completely lop sided comparison but it would be cool.

[@MotorTrendWatch]

How about this video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qni2pYytabGonsk

[@rogerbennett2025]

i really like watching this show.... they do so many comparisons .. that ive always wondered about .. like mechanical fans compared to electric fans....2.5 exhaust to 3 inch exhaust ect

[@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953]

yes and the EPIC,,, SALAD BOWL!!,,

[@timfarley8106]

Awesome test the best ive seen that was fair. I'd love to see same test done on a Cleveland vs Ls chev with same cam compression intake so we can do a 4way comparison.

[@deadestduck]

would of been good to see how each engine responded to some timing changes

[@matthewklein9225]

Yeah. Some of these tests are odd. Also, I could see choosing similar Cams but different engines respond to different profiles.

[@TylerDuysen]

from an actual comparitive standpoint that wouldve gave for a much bigger hp number over the sbc sbc before tdc is 8-10 degrees sbf is 10-12 before tdc and in a power application sbc is 12degrees ford is 15+ degrees and total timing the ford actually accepts way more timing than the sbc thats why the distributors were locked out so it was as even as possible

[@matthewklein9225]

@@TylerDuysen they probably had total timing set at 30 or whatever with no advance curve. Not just the 10 or so base timing. Suppose since the test starts above 3000 all the mechanical advance should be in already

[@wintonhudelson2252]

@@matthewklein9225 yes, I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 34 degrees total on the lockout?

[@TylerDuysen]

@@matthewklein9225 its hard to say because mathmatically im pretty sure they were using base timing no advance. there wouldve been zero mechanichal advance they locked out the distributors. so there couldnt possiblly be mechanichal advance. thats what that aluminum collar on the bottom does it doesnt allow any timing including mechanical advance

[@ZboeC5]

It's almost like physics dictates how engines make power. Put the same air, fuel, and spark through the same number of cubic inches at the same time and you make the same power. IT'S MAGIC! No really it's called physics and physics don't care about your feelings.

[@chucksgarage7165]

😂

[@jasonamerica7618]

Very true

[@ryurc3033]

The most surprising thing was the ford and Chevy having equal price tags.

[@linkloudenback8359]

Some people would go for the larger one and in this case they would be right. Of course the engine with the slightly bigger displacement and higher compression produced the more power even if it was a small amount. Reality is not just cost or size it’s often availability or weight or even size of the vehicle that your planing to use. Sure you might get either one in stock form like a former police car or taxi or just an used car that has either one from an elderly person that’s only being used to go to church or bingo . Often the choice is not a choice but just luck that you came across one for the right price.

[@ZboeC5]

@@ryurc3033 Not to those of us that pay attention. Over the last 10 years especially, before that I would say that Ford was more expensive but as LS stuff has slowly taken over the Chevy camp the classic small block parts have gone up in price more so than the Ford parts. Demand has waned because of the popularity of the LS making the small block parts cost more to produce as the production runs get smaller and smaller.

[@user-qr7ee2cp4y]

Great show, love how they challenge the myths in the engine world.

[@terraboundmisfit]

Great test, and video!!!

[@codyleemeece]

It would be nice to see some Pontiac stuff. I understand it’s a fair bit more niche as far as the hobby goes but there’s still a lot of folks both young and old building them and getting started.

[@darrellsomers5427]

Stock Pontiac heads don't flow good # unless its a SD 455 that's why stock Pontiac cams were not much over 500 lift the heads didn't flow much over 500 lift ,but Pontiac reached out to a company back in the day called AF when they built the SD 455 and sent the factory SD heads to AF they moved the valves around so it would flow good # some say it would out flow a hemi head that same company now is known as AFR air flow research

[@codyleemeece]

@@darrellsomers5427 there are also “factory style” aluminum heads by Kaufman Performance as well as RAV heads available now

[@matthewjohnson2495]

I’ve had a 73 ,75 and a 79 Blazer and I own a 79 Bronco that I’ve had about 10 years or so and all three blazers together are nowhere near as tuff as a 79 Bronco. A 12 bolt rear end is a piece of glass when you run a 35 inch tire and a 350 turbo trans is fine in a car but once again the 350 turbo trans does not like 35 inch tires where as a Ford 9 inch rear end and a C6 trans laughs at 35 inch tires and if you don’t believe me try it your self

[@xxkingslayemxxgamer5553]

Dam right brother

[@silicon212]

The C6 and TH350 are not in the same class. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison, then put a TH400 against that C6. However, the 9 inch is the better rear axle.

[@matthewjohnson2495]

@@silicon212 The 400 don’t compare to the C6 either. A 400 is almost the same as a 350 but it don’t have a passing gear linkage

[@silicon212]

@@matthewjohnson2495 it's not close to a th350 in any way. Stronger, different ratios, different design entirely. Shift linkage has nothing to do with anything here, stop creating strawmen.

[@owenhunt6796]

Hey! if you could find it in your heart could you do an episode on the diffrences between gm small blocks from the 60s. like the pontiac olds and buick v8s and what there diffrences were. the olds v8 is particularly intresting as it was able to keep up with emisions laws till the 90s only using a carb.

[@jetdriver]

This reminds me of the good old Days when all this awesome content was on KZbin all the time and not locked behind a paywall.

[@mrb.5610]

How does the weights of the engines compare - any difference ?

[@rnrsteev]

I'd rather have the 350 over the 351W, 351C over both. back in the 80's edelbrock had a 351C at over 700hp, pump gas, on their dyno. fun fact: the Miami Vice white Ferrari had a 351C NOS injected because the factory motor didn't have the power needed for the stunts.

[@oscrthgrch7]

The "Testarossa" they used for stunts was a reskinned Pantera specifically built for stunt driving (it had cool touches like a third brake pedal for just the rear brakes to set the car up for sliding turns). They used real Testarossas for all of the close up shots.

[@rnrsteev]

@@oscrthgrch7 oh yeah, I forgot that part, it was a long time ago.

[@dallascowboys1683]

I never missed a Friday night episode of Miami Vice. I thought the black Ferrari had a 350 SBC And the white Testarrossa had a 351-W on nitrous.

[@rnrsteev]

@@dallascowboys1683 You could very well be right, I'm relying on old memories and Lyme + two concussions. one thing I do remember, GO EAGLES!

[@dallascowboys1683]

@@rnrsteev As much as I can’t stand the Eagles, I hated too see the Eagles get cheated out of a Super Bowl win like they did. One of the best Super Bowls that I’ve watched until that stupid call. It ruined that game. Not to mention, I cant count how many times I saw the same defensive grab and not get called through out the season, and they call it in the Super Bowl. Kinda reminded me of the 70’s Cowboys-Steelers Super Bowl games. The officiating favored the Steelers. Mahomes is going to get that special Brady treatment because he’s a money machine for the NFL.

[@maniakzmayoral3992]

Great show thank you

[@HotRodMuha]

My ‘72 Mustang has a 351 Cleveland rebuilt and bored over to a 359 Cleveland, by Barnett High Performance. It was OEM block fully machined, OEM crank and rods, cast pistons, 2V heads with hp valve job and stainless valves, custom design hydraulic roller cam, Edelbrock Performer dual plane aluminum intake, Holley 650 CFM double-pumper carburetor, and MSD ignition system. They dyno tested the block and it made 389 horsepower at 5,400 RPM, with 422 ft-lb of torque at 3,700 RPM

[@bigcountrysgarage2.030]

This is a good comparison I'm a fan of the Big 3 mainly old school, I will never mix and match I keep everything Ford, Ford, Chevy, Chevy and Dodge, Dodge. Would be nice to see a 3 way match.

[@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953]

Get an AMC,, has parts from all 3,, LOLOL

[@thabiznizz]

Yessir I agree. I’m an old school Chevy fan but I appreciate them all. Check out Richard Holdner. He has done all 3. Not sure if he had them specked out this close though. This was definitely a good comparison.

[@bigboreracing356]

A Chevy in a Foxbody is hard to beat

[@davidgalea6113]

@@bigboreracing356 a ford in a foxbody is better, why basterdize a classic car..

[@rnrsteev]

Sunbeam Tiger is worth the mention, not that you can find one.

[@wintonhudelson2252]

You two do a great job and Steve is a treasure.

[@SAUER35]

This is actually a great video. I'm not surprised because both engines are from the same technology era.

[@danmallery9142]

When I was a kid, my dad told me that hp doesn't care what name is on the valve covers. I guess the old man was right! It was interesting to see a comparison between the two brands from the same era. There has been a trend to "ls swap" everything lately. Of course, the ls has 55 years of technological advantage on the windsor so it makes sense that it makes more power. Ford had been out of the pushrod game for so long. But now, the godzilla engine puts them back on par technologically. It would be interesting to see when the aftermarket for the 7.3 / 6.8 engines catch up with the ls. I suspect that the results will be basically what we saw here.

[@christophersine84]

I've said it for YEARS, you take any small block V8 from that era and do the exact same build, they will be virtually identical in performance.

[@PatKempen]

What is the weight difference?

[@G55STEYR]

What are the top power numbers achieved by NA 350s and 351s?

[@calvinwright5040]

That's crazy. I thought it would be close but that's awesome

[@BillWood1]

Awesome test! I was pretty hard on you guys a couple years ago with the 455 vs 460 shootout. Not because I'm a Ford guy, but because of the build differences. This was really impressive and absolutely demonstrates that in similar applications either motor is a great choice! For this I would stick with the bow tie motor because even though the Ford made a couple more HP and Torque, you demonstrated on a similar build there just isn't enough difference. Also, in what I would be looking at for a 350ish application would most likely be a Chevy platform.

[@retrocompaq5212]

both engine makes about 200hp and 400lbs of torque at 1500rpm so if you go over that youre done

[@jamesadamiak6214]

Now, if the 351 Cleveland was used instead of the Windsor it would be totally different!

[@TokenTombstone]

Not likely. But just in case I am way wrong, how much more power do you think that engine would make over the windsor with a similar setup?

[@charlesvan13]

I think it would still be the same if they used identical heads. The design differences, crank journal diameter, bearings, water passages, etc. don't effect power.

[@B1Springfield]

That wouldn’t sell AFR heads though. Richard Holdner did a dyno run. 1970 M code 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, headers, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb 240/246 duration cam Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake, 450hp/411ftlb Iron 4v Closed Chamber heads

[@mikeadams42]

What was the camshaft set at in each engine? Were they both set at the advance?

[@Enigma-Sapiens]

I knew it! They're the same engine painted in different colors!... Lol! Actually, this is something I've argued and seen argued many times over the years. I always argued that IF you could get as close as possible to the same parts on them, the results would be pretty darn close to equal. Now we have the proof! Thanks, Frieberger, Dulcich, and Steve Brulé.!

[@rotaryboy69]

Id love to se a chassis dyno with both engines bolted to the same tranny and rear end set up to see if it keeps being the same. I think it should…. I believe the outcome would be decided by car weight then…

[@_____7704]

Do a 7.3L Godzilla VS Chev showdown

[@ricjona1069]

Is there a difference in gross weight (with fluids)?

[@EchoFaustMusic]

Would be interesting to compare an AMC 360 and a Mopar 360 together like this.

[@motownXJdad9565]

now lets see once and for all, lets test to see what the baddest small block on the planet,---351C vs 340mopar vs 350 chevy. im voting 351 Cleveland

[@craigcampbell8560]

Until it dies from oil starvation on the racetrack thanks to the idiotic front oil sump.

[@rexgratteaux8655]

I agree with Freiburger , you won't notice the difference in tq or hp , but in the past I always thought the Chevy had a better flowing head , I guess in stock trim , but technology has obviously come to the show with the AFR heads flow numbers and 2 cubic inches 😉

[@ZONES89RS]

I’m disappointed the ford didn’t actually out right win this. More compression, better valve angle, better firing order…..

[@rexgratteaux8655]

I've followed Freiburger , since the 80s in CAR CRAFT and numerous other articles , HE is by far one of the coolest Mechanical geniuses I've ever seen , HE can make pure junk absolutely scream with just a few bolt on, ALL HAIL DAVID FREIBURGER !!!

[@DJackson1232]

whats up with that glowing header pipe? on the sbc? is that normal?

[@user-em4be1tr6s]

Thanks for all the awesome information! You all are amazing!

[@Dan-ge7cy]

Old derby racer here. Take away the water ) see which one runs longer )

[@cliffkolinger395]

This was fun, but I’m still a Mopar guy. Would of liked to see a 340 or a 360 in the mix.

[@mwagner_87]

I've never had interest in mopars but I bet money a 340 or 360 would make more power. They run really hard when set up right.

[@Fred_NaughT]

340 is a screamin mutha and they were all high performance

[@mzaccagnini7179]

That was agreat comparison. I've been a chevy fan all my life. So I'll keep running Chevy

[@ronnielewis1862]

I agree, I've got a garage full of Chevy part's and will never own a ford!!! Great test but only Chevy's here

[@510CurtDawg]

What about the heads?? Valve size, runner size, chamber size?? Interesting video!!

[@h3m1cuda]

I think they said they were AFR 195 heads. Their website will have all the info.

[@edwinwinn8876]

I had a friend back in the day who owned a dodge dart swinger with 340 4 speed, it was a little monster, I was surprised with its power. I had a 1970 428 mustang auto, never really captured it's power to the back tires.

[@westcoastfoss2850]

What is the weight difference between the two?

[@craigcampbell8560]

The weight is pretty similar. The 351W probably weighs about 30 lbs more due to the taller deck.

[@philmygroin6601]

Biggest difference is the stroke capabilities. The 350 sbc 383 is as far as most stock blocks can go and the 351w can go to 410 most stock block . Sbc 400 tho would probably blow both engine out however.

[@ZONES89RS]

396 stroker is common for a 350 engine but generally was 87+

[@Bacongrease00]

351w can go to 427w

[@tylerc7336]

The real test would be in durability, that close of power numbers would be unnoticeable on the street

[@aidensimila9810]

Crazy how easy it is to make 400hp nowdays

[@mattbauckman9907]

How about using the best production head for each engine?

[@benjaminwayneb]

Cleveland head for the win.

[@mattbauckman9907]

@@benjaminwayneb I’m a Chevy guy and I agree. 👍

[@JBAutomotive794]

What will us car guys poke fun at each other tho if the chevy and ford debate doesn't exist? 🍻

[@hayesracing43]

Almost all other things being equal, you saw the result of a taller deck height and a slightly better rod ratio pushing the power a little higher in the RPM range on the 351w.

[@635jmt]

A few months ago, you guys did a carb shoot out and over a year ago you did one about fuel. I think you guys should try out propane and propane carbs, and see what kinda numbers you can get.

[@richardcoleman9645]

So where was the test for the 351 Cleveland????

[@twolak1972]

If they had used the 351 4V there would have been NO CONTEST.

[@JaredJCarpenter]

Would have been really cool if you weighed them both as well

[@hughjass1835]

The Ford probably weighs 12 pounds more

[@jaypisme2343]

A 302 bottom end weighs 180 a 351w weighs 260 just watching another video on that I was blown away

[@anthonypesqueira7540]

At what timing curve? Should've played with the timing. The SBC loves alot of timing.

[@jasonpowell4847]

I guess it comes down to you. Is there a significant weight difference between the engines. And a significant difference in measurement with heist deaths. For smaller engine bays or ability to put it for their back in the chassis?

[@edsmachine93]

Good job guys. Very nice test. Really encouraging for the Ford guys out there. Nice engines, both of them. Thanks for sharing. Take care, EM.

[@sorshiaemms5959]

Windsors Rule

[@LockieNZ]

The graph is a bit confusing with Ford as red and Chevy as blue 😂

[@TokenTombstone]

Thanks for the video.

[@Coogfan1996]

This episode was filmed in December 2017!! I can't believe its been this long

[@clstjam4321]

One added benefit of the 9.5 deck height in the Ford is it can be bored and stroked to 464 cubic inches. I'm not sure how far the Chevy can go but I think it's limited to somewhere around 410CI. Though I'm sure there are Chevy guys that can clear that up.

[@pouyan225]

464! didn't know that. can it be done on a factory engine block? what crankshaft do I need?

[@clstjam4321]

@@pouyan225 As long as you use a block made after July 1969 you can. It has to have the 9.5 inch deck height, earlier blocks have a 9.2 inch deck and won't get you there. You can buy a full rotating assembly from Summit that will get you there. There is machining that needs to be done to the block to clearance it for the longer stroke. Just call Summit and ask them what you need. You can also call Eagle Specialty Products or Scat Crankshafts. Either one should have a solution.

[@HioSSilver1999]

You can't get to 464 with the oe ford block. They never made a 4 1/8" bore block for the sbf. The sbc wins using oe parts....because if you want to compare the best of both you use a 400sbc and a 351sbf

[@79huddy]

​@@HioSSilver1999yeah you can get there on a stock block but you have to sleeve it you'd be amazed what your machinist can do if your pockets are deep enough and you have to meet a stock block class

[@clstjam4321]

HioSSilver is partially correct, you can only push a stock 351w block to 440CI. 4.060 bore and a 4.250 stroke. I've only built blocks from World Products, Shelby Engine Co and Ford Performance so I forgot that the stock windsor can only bore to 4.060 As for who wins? If it's the engine brand you want to build, and you build it, then you win.

[@fredramos9206]

If the Chevy would of won, this guy would have telling his neighbors and the entire town about how great the Chevy is?😩

[@brandonbell433]

If that ford didn’t have more cubic inch and 2 two tenths more compression it wouldn’t of made more power

[@fredramos9206]

@@brandonbell433 Yep, when a Ford wins a Chevy starts crying Just like Warren Johnson, when a chevy wins they're all smiles.

[@brandonbell433]

@@fredramos9206 I’m not crying I’m simply stating the ford had advantages lol. It’s not like it was perfectly equal

[@ZONES89RS]

Any ford guy should be disappointed in these results. Too many advantages not to make more power.

[@fredramos9206]

@@ZONES89RS Yep, if it was the other way around, the entire chevy camp would be grinning.

[@rushn2793]

Ive always wanted to see this test with a firing order swap to see if firing order has any effect on power.

[@chewybrand238]

I believe that they have already done a video with this swap!

[@toadamine]

Best engine by displacement IMO -Oldsmobile 215 v-8 -Chrysler 225 slant-6 Chevy 265/283 -Ford Windsor 302 -Chevy 327 -Chevy LS1 350 -Chrysler 383 Chevy 400 -Chrysler 426 Hemi -Chevy LS7 427 -Chrysler 440 -Olds 455 -Chevy 502

[@uncleremis69]

As a mid 90s budget street racer, it tells me that the fox body is better than the G body. Because we all had small blocks and the fox body won more than lost when compared to G body or F body. Chassis folks, thats how you win races

[@givemeabreakdoc]

I prefer the 350. My brother, who knows WAAAY more about engines than I do, prefers the Windsor. But he does admit, that 350 was one of the best.

[@seancollins9745]

the sbf is a 21degree head, and it has better valve to bore placement, as well as a better csa because more pushrod room

[@ZONES89RS]

It’s what makes the ford a disappointment here. All that and it has a superior firing order

[@seancollins9745]

@@ZONES89RS it matters when you want 600hp+ na

[@MrSt3v3n82]

So glad to see that finally we see the FORD is better.

[@rnrsteev]

nobody is better, they all break at the worst possible times. except my old Ford.

[@dannykichar9066]

They always were

[@whatta7793]

The Ford has higher compression ratio. If they were exact same compression ratio, guarantee that small block would be a few extra ponies than the Windsor.

[@lifeenhancements9595]

I put together a 351m.. Yes a modified with stock 2v heads and a 252 comp. Very small cam and an intake and headers and it has more grunt and mid range power than any Chevy 350 that I've ever experienced.

[@I_like_turtles_67]

​@Whatta well on the flip side. The exhaust port flow on a SBC is a better design than the ford's. So I'd call it a wash. Both are respectable engines. I am a Ford guy, but I am not gonna hate on the Chevy. At least not that I am older 😂

[@andrewbecker3700]

What this test fails to take into consideration is the glaring fact that building a Chevy will always yield more horsepower per dollar. Be curious to see a breakdown of the costs of all the parts laid out side by side. I guarantee the Chevy can be built for less.

[@kimberlywilliams9757]

I agree

[@delbertmcfinklestein8576]

Watch again. They said the parts cost for both builds was nearly identical.

[@andrewbecker3700]

@@delbertmcfinklestein8576 It's not that it can't be done. It's that it's not as practical to do. If you think otherwise, great. I'll stick to my Chevrolet.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

andrewbecker YOU were not paying attention because he addressed that "issue" and said the costs were almost identical !!!! DUUUUUHHHHH!!!!!!

[@andrewbecker3700]

@@wilburfinnigan2142 your correct, but my point still stands. 9 outta 10 times the average street built smallblock Chevy WILL be more cost effective.

[@routeoneauto]

In the day! (1968) when my dad really wanted me to go fast with my 64 Fairlane. You could put a really hot 283 or 327 together for half the money. It was expensive to beat those guys.

[@COBHC8890]

I'm still a LA series, 340 kinda guy. 👌 Steve Dulcich has taken a 340, and squeezed 580+hp. Bored, sleeved, and heads.

[@HioSSilver1999]

The thing is you can build a 400sbc for the same price as a 350.

[@hughjass1835]

You can also slap a supercharger on a junkyard coyote motor and make double the HP. Watching those old motors get built is fun but going fast is easy and cheap now, that old tech just can't keep up

[@HioSSilver1999]

@@hughjass1835 you can slap a supercharger or turbo on anything. Use a ls....they've been way faster than a coyotah. But that wasn't the purpose of this vid.

[@alltherpm]

Ford been the best from the beginning, always been higher revving, longer lasting, means more fun

[@kronk9418]

Nope. Mopar has been king for 60 years.

[@toddbob55]

I agree .....I always had better luck with Fords and they lasted longer

[@gdubbigdaddy]

Great video 👍

[@melodigrand]

No surprise here, inline valve engines with the same bore and other specs, same horsepower. It might be interesting to build a de-stroked 350 cube 400 Mopar with the 4.34 bore and aftermarket 440 heads and see what hp could be developed.

[@Pistol85]

I'd like to see it done with a 351 clevo as that's more common here in oz

[@rnrsteev]

look up "top gear burnout toploader 3.25 gears clevo power" you won't be disappointed.

[@thomastaylor1594]

Try the 351 Boss or the m code Cleveland, now we’re talking 🐍

[@RANDOMNATION907]

If it's pumping X amount of air/fuel at a given rpm, expect to get the same output.

[@blaketison1802]

Most important question, what was the cost of all material and the build for each?

[@lazyhoundracing9621]

Those engines have no idea what name is on them.