Will the people of Grenfell get the justice they want?

[@raphaelandrews3617]

Saying Sorry and It should NOT happen will not bring back the dead. THis is corruption and greed at the highest level.

[@rsav4171]

what should they do then?

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

@@rsav4171 jail and compensation from the american cladding firm

[@ReeBore]

The long shout and into the cave only enceladus the flamboyant economy

[@jonaen24]

If UK had complied with EU cladding regulations, Grenfell could not have happened. We are sick of lifesaving regulations being treated as a joke and just "red tape" when they are a matter of life and death. It IS the attitude of Tory Eurosceptics that the rules dont apply to them.

[@MsCharlieBrown78]

Things are going to get a lot worse now we have Brexit. The Tories are already planning on ripping up more laws and regulations, and come out of the ECHR if they get back in. We've lost enough already, yet here we are with the likes of Tugendhat promising to rid you of all pesky human rights.

[@alansimmons9621]

I doubt there will be justice. Poor people go to prison. Rich people are protected by the system.

[@tashussain560]

The catastrophic cost of deregulation and light touch regulation. When you allow the private sector to police itself, don't be surprised that they will be motivated by profit and costs savings at all costs.

[@MrAntreaspaok]

This is the tip of the iceberg in the civil and construction industry

[@Donny427]

Asking The Establishment to prosecute The Establishment...I am hopeful but doubtful. All we can do as citizens is ensure justice is served, through protest, pressing MPs, consulting lawyers, campaigning. No-one should get away with this, no morally sound human being should be ok with people getting away with this.

[@woodyspooner]

Money was given a higher value than the value of human safety and life by those companies contracted to build Grenfell Tower. The 72 people who died in the Grenfell Tower fire were working class and from predominantly different ethnic backgrounds. This could be a reason why their safety wasn't given a high enough priority. Justice must be swift and unflinching for the victims of the Grenfell Tower disaster. The families and friends of the people who died in the Grenfell Tower fire must have justice for their loved ones who were killed in the Grenfell Tower fire on that terrible night 7 years ago.

[@rjw4762]

Nothing to do with their ethincity and everything to do with an over-populated City where people live where they can afford to live (like every city on Earth). Most White Working Class folk have left London. This could have been 72 poor White British killed, had it happened in 1997 not 2017. It's nothing to do with 'racism'. The REAL issue here is who is ultimately responsible for 'signing off' on the cladding ? The Contractor ? The owner ? The Architect ? The Local Authority ? The Fire Brigade ? As for Government's role - the Cladding was either legal or it was Not.

[@alingard1]

7 years on there are STILL half the 4600 buildings with the SAME cladding on. 2,300 buildings the work hasn't even started. All these comments are so disingenuous, it shouldn't have happened, never again blah blah blah. Ok. Do something to stop that then. Words are cheap. Like poor peoples lives.

[@Outdoor_Cycling_Adventures]

Let’s face it people, no1 will be held accountable. When does the little man or woman ever get justice?

[@sn4rff]

i'd love to be proven wrong, but i don't hold out much hope that anyone actually responsible for the decisions that made that fire as catastrophic as it was will face any consequences.

[@tatata1543]

Nope, it will all be forgotten about within a week. The purpose of public inquiries in this country is to protect the powerful, not hold them to account.

[@judewarner1536]

Some years ago, I was fortunate to sit in at a session of one of the world renowned British Standards Committees. British Standards are intended to preserve quality and obtain economies of scale in support of public safety, competition and export prices. This Committee's focus was specific to a particular industrial tool that underpins the production of one of the most ubiquitous components of industrial and household products. The Committee comprised Civil Servants, technical experts and representatives of various factions of production... corporate bosses, which latter were in the majority round the table. The main item on the agenda, and the reason I was there in a technical capacity, was a proposal by a minority faction, in the least demanding application of that tool, to reduce the standard sizes of the tool to save money on the cost of its main component, an expensive hard metal. It would have saved a few companies a significant amount of money on the metal, enabling them to sell a cheaper tool or to increase profits on the product... no prizes! The fact that the majority of more demanding applications would have to pay more for a part that was now non-standard and already a compromise on effectiveness had to be explained several times, in detail to the proposers of the change. The proposal was withdrawn. The lesson is this: Standards are a compromise, between effectiveness, price, quality and safety. They are predominantly driven by price with marginal effectiveness, except and until questions of quality lead to safety failures. The three factors that lead to safety failures are: 1/ sub-standard components that pass inspection; 2/ failure of enforcement and 3/ human failings. Until and unless people's life experience is at the heart of legal and corporate decision-making, catastrophic failings will continue to occur. If all companies are held to the same Standards along with imports, competition is preserved.

[@MarkMiller-f6c]

Don’t blame the Fire Brigade, blame the cladders, follow the money

[@B-A-L]

Blame the fridge manufacturer!

[@bwilliamson3887]

They were stupid though

[@WeeBurnip-lz3fr]

Blame the firefighters' bosses.

[@MarkMiller-f6c]

@@WeeBurnip-lz3fr the government?

[@MarkMiller-f6c]

@@bwilliamson3887 no, they were working to operating procedure laid down by higher ups

[@JayHomes-h7c]

Also listening to authority figures telling everyone to stay in their apartment didn’t help. Always trust your gut instinct.

[@user-im2te2fg9y]

You'd think these people never had a fire drill. telling people to stay inside is against common sense

[@TheChefGaming]

Apply the Post Office timeline to this, so give or take 20+ years. Justice moves slowly when the perpetrators are the ones in power.

[@slinkiegirl2001]

It is quite simple kensington and chelsea one of the most affluent and expensive borough to live in,saw them tenants some of them migraints as inferior second class and they where dispensible that costs was put above human lives,what needs to happen now is immediate charges abs lengthy prison sentences none of this kicking the can down the road until 2026

[@Icneumone7]

I will always remember this as the day I arrived in the UK. Working in Latimer road since, makes me remember the horror every time I am waiting for the train.

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

Are you from Afghanistan aswell?

[@Icneumone7]

@@Jamie-uk2zh No I am actually not. Why do you ask?

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

@@Icneumone7 Because that is where most of those in the Tower block are originally from

[@zuluxray2098]

this is picture of the whole UK bussiness. Safety in a work place is an empty slogan. No manager, from the top to bottom of the companies, cares about safety. Highly paid govermnent safety watchdogs don't give a s**t about this too. tey are part of govemnents, which are sitting in the pockets of walthy and powerful corporations and companies. Only small, familly run companies, have the best safety records. Why. Because these small companies do care about safety of their emplyees.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

This is why it's important than there be prosecutions of actual people. If people go to jail it will encourage others to behave better in the future, knowing they could be jailed if they do bad things.

[@fatwalletboy2]

I cant believe its taken 7 years. 2 or 3 at most to get to the nub of this.....i feel for the victims families. Money over lives. Itll happen again rest assured.....

[@loistallini3609]

😢😢😢💔💔💔it's never too late for justice how disgraceful london one if the most affluent cities in the world 😭💔 lessons have to be learnt 💯✌

[@paulbloxham-k5c]

These poor people, like those affected by Hillsborough, The Post Office and others, will not see justice because, despite enquiry after enquiry; made so unwieldy and taking so, so long that legal recourse is difficult to prosecute; and even in the event of trials taking place, memories fade, evidence is disputed or convictions appealed. But mainly because it is so hard to ensure the people where the buck stops - with money or power or both, are forced to take any responsibility for their actions or fear any repercussions.

[@chetty1111]

Wow such an awful tragedy, I remember the day it happened and going to the site and helping sort clothes donations. The good general public pulled together from all corners of the uk to offer help and fund raising. Everyone involved, especially those that knew the building was unsafe after numerous complaints from residents should be buried under the jail. Money won’t bring the lost souls back, but definitely huge amounts of compensation should be awarded. The company directors should not be allowed to open another business. It’s a shame to see some of the comments from the single brain cell crew who can’t use their comprehension or critical thinking skills. RIP beautiful souls!

[@Muzzeo]

I’ve heard everything and everyone blamed besides the person who started the fire

[@InAMinMaths]

Not that simple is it

[@tatata1543]

I don’t think you can hold a fridge legally responsible.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

It wasn't arson, it was started accidentally. Without the cladding it would have been contained to a single flat which was why they advised people to shelter in place rather than evacuate.

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

you gonna blame the fridge

[@slinkiegirl2001]

Listen the fire was not deliberately started and the fire protection that was in place was compromised

[@belkentens]

Will the people of grenfell get the compensation they want

[@GerardOconnell-q4d]

No mention of the resident not raising the alarm. just blame everyone but the resident.... who walked out and failed to let his neighbours,know.. maybe i just dont understand the new cultural enrichment weve been given ...

[@JohnSmith-ef8nr]

Building regulations are to blame, not the cladding manufacturers, or the people that fitted it, it should never have been allowed to be used.

[@TheChefGaming]

Incorrect, it has been found that the cladding manufacturer lied about the dangers of the product "US firm Arconic, manufacturer of the Reynobond 55 cladding which experts at the inquiry said was "by far the largest contributor" to the fire, deliberately concealed the true extent of the danger of using its product."

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

usa cladding firm is exempt from prosecution

[@JohnSmith-ef8nr]

@TheChefGaming Thanks, I didn't know about that, I thought that cladding was allready banned for use on high buildings in other countries before the fire happened.

[@B-A-L]

Why is nobody talking about the fact this was caused by a fridge?

[@davebeard7409]

Don't be silly

[@fatwalletboy2]

Because fridges can and do occasionally catch fire but the fire should have been contained to that one flat.....it doesnt excuse the fact that sub standard cladding was the reasin 72 died due to the fire spreading...i think the saving in cladding costs was about £150,000. About £2k per life whileno doubt some people did very nicely out of any dodgy dealings......

[@sparagmos4748]

That was the origins of the fire, but was terribly exacerbated by cladding and awful management at the scene.

[@bwilliamson3887]

They wanted cladding to look nice for the high end houses which could see it. Shocking​@fatwalletboy2

[@WeeBurnip-lz3fr]

We leave such things to morons.

[@jillyanddavedave280]

Surely it's the councils planning and building inspectors that control what materials are used on buildings???.so they should take the rap.

[@lesleyhogg2495]

'Deeply sorry' can't be heard by those killed.

[@timothynoble8206]

Yes, I agree , landings could not be added....I wanted to point out that had landings been INCLUDED when Grenfell was built, then a lot of lives might never have been lost. The EU forced high rise blocks in Spain to facilitate the use of EXTRA external fire escapes for that reason...?....Cladding was NEVER needed when you clad the INSIDE WALL with dry lining which is fireproof. What is the good of cladding the outside of the building...?...That is closing the stable AFTER the nag has left...!

[@jimbo6693]

Wonder what sort of justice ⚖ they want.?? £££££££££

[@alanbrowne441]

Probably not……….but “Lessons will be learned” so that’s ok isn’t it. This lessons will be learned bullshit makes me sick! These companies have to be held accountable and individuals jailed for their part in this tragedy.

[@johncrook7705]

Do we know who or what started the fire? Lots of blame for after but again who or what started the fire?

[@jasereed5258]

They weren't white and British so we will never know.

[@InAMinMaths]

@@jasereed5258how do you know that genius

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

It was started by an electrical appliance. No one was to blame for the fire starting. Fires happen. The problem was the building was designed to contain the fire to only one flat, but the flammable cladding spread it across the whole building.

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

yeh its was a fridge made by white community

[@aitordotco]

No.

[@coventrypunx1014]

Who actually started the Fire . 🔥

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

white fridge maker and white cladding company

[@coventrypunx1014]

@@Lemingtona-x5g why would the white cladding company start a fire ? Who owned the Fridge. Was the person who owned the fridge negligent in some way .

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

@@coventrypunx1014 because white people lie?

[@Durka-Durka01]

What happened to the bloke where the fire started? 🧐🤔

lol, why they not blaming they guy and the faulty fridge that started the fighter? its no one else's fault but him, they don't deserve compensation from the government or council.

[@phyllisbennett5414]

1. Did he know that the fridge was faulty? 2.why do you think that it was his fault, not the manufacturer's? 3. The fire spread because of faulty insulation, cladding and fire doors. Had these been up to standard, the fire would have been contained within a small area.

[@ReeBore]

They are all going to get what they want a spectacular day out

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

Where did this happen Afghanistan or downtown Mogadishu 🤔

[@upbox251]

Deserve* Not just want!

[@GerardOconnell-q4d]

the simple truth is the resident who started the fire and didnt alert others...

[@kpower1379]

evidence? you have none do you. the inquiry has concluded that those responsible for the deaths are the government, council, construction companies , execs, companies selling the cladding...... the fire was started by an electrical fault however, a fire shouldn't kill everyone in a flat....ever!

[@bbuzz1687]

No it isn't. That's not how fire safety works here.

[@GerardOconnell-q4d]

@bbuzz1687 his flat was on fire and he just walked out he is,100% responsible leaving without raising the alarm.

[@TheChefGaming]

@@GerardOconnell-q4d He is 100% responsible for the fire bursting through a window and igniting a highly flammable material that was wrapped around the entire building? Give your head a wobble ffs.

[@GerardOconnell-q4d]

@TheChefGaming Apart from it didnt.. it burned the flat entirely 1st...it burned inside for 50 minutes before it spread outside.. so you can make all the stupid comments you like, the truth is youre utterly clueless.... He watched it burn before leaving and not telling anyone... Then you had all the illegals living there so more were there than should have been, whilst he just left without a care in the world..

[@SonjaMorrison-i7j]

More to the point, will they get the justice they deserve?

[@rexiioper6920]

havent they swallowed enough taxpayer cash

[@user-im2te2fg9y]

whoever started it could have phoned the fire brigade

[@madmesmith5187]

Now Start on 2020 i lost my DAD and a Good Friend....Run the Numbers NZ adjust for Population Pin pricks on a map but we got a paintbrush of Death....To busy looking at the stock market and distracted by Donners to close the Door....Why are they still walking free ? /sigh.

[@enigma7791]

The simple fact is that while we have countless people coming here and councils unable to cope then the cheapest option is going to be used. Quantity NOT quality is the mandate and has been for years now. Councils cannot cope with the amount of people wanting housing and their budgets cannot cope so...things like this will continue to happen. Fix the cause and it might get better otherwise accept the country cannot keep accepting the amount of people coming.

[@bbuzz1687]

This is nonsense.

[@andrewreynolds912]

This is what happens when u have capitalism

[@Cactuspractice12]

so upsetting

[@Whatever4690]

Only because they were black is this dragged on, getting a multimillion folly wasn't enough.

[@JayHomes-h7c]

It was Mixed race chump

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

@@JayHomes-h7cLooks more like Afghanistan or Mogadishu

[@bbuzz1687]

They weren't and colour would be irrelevant

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

alot of white dishonesty

[@Durka-Durka01]

Race card declined. 👍

[@ArranLaPaul]

I wish I had some money when they mixed up medication in the hospital for my grandma and killed her. But did I ask for money free money like these always do? No I forgave because of all the other lives they save and give a happy life to We need to get over this and move on as sad as it was and horrendous. We need to move on

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

The funny thing is half of those living in those flats didn’t even have the right to be in the UK in the first place

[@bbuzz1687]

We need to ensure it doesn happen again and those responsible go to jail.

[@bbuzz1687]

@@Jamie-uk2zh rubbish.

[@M_P5]

@@Jamie-uk2zhyup true that. Or mostly not even working or paying tax, taking benefits and possibly abusing the system too (eg have cash on hand job and taking benefits at the same time). That’s why chelsea n kensington borough couldn’t give any sh*t about them asking for financial payouts

[@Jamie-uk2zh]

@@M_P5 Exactly as far am I’m concerned it’s going to save the taxpayer a fortune.I Doubt most of their family’s give a toss either they’re just looking for a payday.

[@coventrypunx1014]

Can legal U.K Citizens hold our prime minister responsible for every death caused by a bogus asylum seekers living a bill free style on easy street

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

None of the murders were done by asylum seekers.

[@paxundpeace9970]

Most of Conservative Party MPs didn't even had to curage to show up today

[@JayHomes-h7c]

I don’t think Labour are gonna be any better comrade.

[@iniquity123]

​@BrianBadonde-v1bexcellent retort 👏👏👏.

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

they were partying in Israel

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

@BrianBadonde-v1b how so? theres nothing there, you have been colonizing their land haven't you

[@Lemingtona-x5g]

@BrianBadonde-v1b revenge for what? what happened

[@dant-vj2gl]

Same bullxxxx, different day! Shouldn't the king be taking his government to task publicly, or are his speeches made of the same cladding!!

[@Mel-he1hg]

Most was not even supposed to be in the tower reports say

[@alanbrowne441]

@@Mel-he1hg but they were, and they didn’t deserve to die!

[@i_omac8614]

@@alanbrowne441well…

[@bbuzz1687]

​@@i_omac8614Karma

[@bbuzz1687]

Not true and not the point.

[@Mel-he1hg]

Quiet right

[@ChrisChell-r1r]

The blame surely falls to the person whose flat the electrical appliance was located in that probably caught fire due to poor maintenance or neglect.

[@bbuzz1687]

No, the blame lies with the gladding and poor fire safety.

[@phyllisbennett5414]

Oversimplistic

[@c1b8]

NOW THEY WANT SPEAK ABOUT IT THIS WAS MURDER

[@coventrypunx1014]

How did the fire activity start . Shouldn’t they be held responsible for instance . If they left food cooking on a dodgy Cooker .

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

It was started by an electrical appliance. No one was to blame for the fire starting. Fires happen. The problem was the building was designed to contain the fire to only one flat, but the flammable cladding spread it across the whole building.

[@TheChefGaming]

If the building had been renovated properly it wouldn't have mattered as the fire would have been contained within the apartment it started in. What I've seen multiple times in this thread is implied arson when the cause was an electrical fire cased by a freezer.

[@coventrypunx1014]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 . We’ve got to be carful this enquiry doesn’t create a smoke screen for what is really happening in the U.K . .

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

@@coventrypunx1014 what is really happening? What does grenfell have to do with it?

[@coventrypunx1014]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 your either a leftie or a none native of the U.K with a religious preference. .

[@catzov]

They're all looking up at us right now 😂

[@phyllisbennett5414]

How is this funny?

[@timothynoble8206]

What has happened tp the old fashioned landings....?....Landings would mean a firepoint on each landing and another to evacuate the infrmed etc....The cost of Grenfell ( we are told) was ten million..?.....so far the vultures (men and women ) in funny clothes have had 150 million....The two million spent on cladding would have saved lives if spent on landings....This also does not rule out the social aspects of people contact as with the old brick flats still around in the capital where people could meet each day and just TALK.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

The tower was built decades ago. You can't add landings retrospectively. The cladding was added to improve insulation and reduce heating costs for the tenants. The problem was inadequate fire safety regulations that didn't prevent flammable cladding from being used.

[@Bereadyalways123]

It is said there were people living in there who had no right to be there overcrowding, using electrical items and overloading the system causing a fire ALLEGEDLY !

[@bbuzz1687]

You can legitimately have 5 individuals in a 2 bed flat. What's your point?

[@Bereadyalways123]

@@bbuzz1687 Are you an ultra LEFT-WINGER ?

[@codswallop164]

@bbuzz1687 That makes it OK then so let's drop back to the default setting of govern us harder 🙄

[@Bereadyalways123]

@@codswallop164 This was a great RESPECTABLE Christian country, then the BARBARIANS and third world countries slowly occupied what was once a great country…

[@codswallop164]

@Bereadyalways123 I use to subcontract for a housing association and this was a major problem from a non indigenous demographic. Same with the mould and damp phenomenon, I'd make good mouldy areas then get called back to the same properties a year later after telling tenants they need to ventilate and clean effected areas regularly which was obvious not happening It had nothing to do with the building or leak's, just lazy people who didn't like fresh air getting into the flat.

[@robertanthony929]

All these residents won't is compoe money

[@c1b8]

THEY NEVER GAVE A F ABOUT ANYONE ONE EXCEPT THERE SELVES