Will the Stark Varg change Motocross Technique forever? - Gypsy Tales

[@scrambled1213]

The option of being able to have a track in the back yard and not pissing the neighbours off is appealing.

[@melissakelly5813]

Thats the only thing thats good about electric bikes.I cant imagine riding a bike that i dont have to shift,cant hear anything and cant smell gas.Not my cup of tea

[@daniellarsson3699]

And you dont think people will complain anyway hahaha xd ?

[@shanemoto97]

Yeah cause that chain and suspension slap and dust and tractor noise and generator won’t cause neighbors to complain lol

[@michalbiajgo_roascrafters]

@@melissakelly5813 maybe you're just closed minded

[@mattstark4538]

Sometimes I’ll rip down the mtn in neutral and with no engine noise it sounds like my bike is falling apart lol. Can only imagine on an electric

[@KH-if7pi]

Congratts to 100 k subscribers. Love your podcast.👍

[@craigb.5650]

I've been riding since the 90's, and the time spent changing top-ends/adjusting valves...... I'd rather spend that time riding my E-MTB up a return trail, so I can blast the downhill. Dudes who ride Amish MTB's, hate E-MTBs and we will have guys who hate on bikes like the Varg.....requardless, electric is the next step in evolution.

[@JohnHowerton137]

The handbrake is great unless you switch back and forth with ice bikes often. When you get into hairy situations your brain will still default to the footbrake because of years of programming. Outside of that, it’s great and can be used like a clutch. The advantages are real.

[@GYPSYTALES]

I been going back and forward no worries?

[@JohnHowerton137]

@@GYPSYTALES wait until you get a Varg and ride it bunch and then switch back to your 350. I didn't think it was a problem either when I got the Freeride, but switching every other weekend it's kind of a problem if trying to ride fast. There is a lot of stock in muscle memory, but you know that as a martial arts guy. I really want a junction valve so I can run both. Totally ideal!

[@gpaull2]

How is this any different than switching back forth between motorcycles and mountain bikes?

[@JohnHowerton137]

@@gpaull2 1) It’s still a motorcycle to your brain. Before I converted back to a foot brake (like 9 months?), I switched my MTB brakes backward (R/F euro style). That was a mind fuch too… and I commute on a scooter to work with that lever combo every day for the last 7 years! I was a triathlete who rode a bike 10,000 miles a year before that and commuted exclusively via bicycle from 09-15. I’m telling you, after doing things a certain way for so long your brain makes associations 🤣 A bike is a bike, a scooter is a scooter, a motorcycle is a motorcycle. That said, I think MTBers jumping on a hand brake motorcycle will will have no problem. I feel like the bicycle primary use brake is the rear and the motorcycle is the front, so it doesn’t matter when the levers are swapped. This is why I don’t think twice when jumping from a scooter to a road bicycle. When you get back on a e-motorcycle after time off, you will also sometimes find yourself trying to click it into 1st gear too 🤣

[@KWParrish]

I rode MX and raced road bikes. My road bike was GP Shift (reverse pattern). I never confused the two.

[@captaincords5133]

Hand brakes are super sick for big skids too, get all your weight over the front.

[@gregwilliamsono9360]

I'd love to see them run one of these against the pro 450s! Just as a promotional thing.

[@alfredk471]

I have an idea that I think will improve MX/off-road motorcycles by making them easier to control. One of the most important areas for improving motorcycles, particularly racing motorcycles, is fitting the bike to the rider, i.e. improving the rider machine interface. The rider is basically a non-variable, one cannot change the human body, so one has to fit the machine to the human. Riders control their motorcycle using a set of controls. The handlebars for balance and direction. The throttle, for acceleration, speed and wheel spin. The brakes, the front for deceleration the back mostly for changing direction but also attitude in the air (dropping the front wheel). The clutch for pull-off, preventing stalling when the rear wheel is locked, gear change (optional) and also controlling acceleration and wheelspin. The gear selector for changing gears. Less obvious are the footpegs, weighting and unweighting the pegs has an effect on the bike. Riders also control the bike with their legs and knees. Ease of control Improving the controls makes the motorcycle easier to control which translates into more control, more control makes higher speeds possible. You improve the controls by making them physically easier to operate, requiring less force and also less movement. Hence hydraulic disc brakes and clutches. Also by simplifying their operation or even by reducing the amount of controls. Less complicated controls or fewer controls puts less load on the rider by simplifying the task of controlling the bike. Electric bikes do this by eliminating the clutch and the gear selector. Moving the rear brake control to the handlebars (on electric and rekluse bikes) also does this because there is often a conflict between the need to brake and the need to put ones foot out in right hand corners, and the need to weight the outside footpeg and need to brake in left hand corners. Below is a copy of a letter I sent to KTM R&D Department explaining my idea for improving a rider's control of their motorcycle.

[@alfredk471]

KTM R&D Department I have an idea that I think will improve rider control of off-road/motocross motorbikes. It could be utilized particularly on electric, but also with fuel injected, drive by wire compatible, motocross/off-road bikes. The twist grip throttle is the best practical option for controlling power and acceleration on carbureted, internal combustion engined motorcycles, but it does have a drawback, especially for motocross and offroad motorcycles because it requires a lot of movement and results in the rider lowering their elbow and/or a kinking their wrist when applying throttle. The elbows up "attack position" is pretty much established form in motocross/off-road riding. Most motocross trainers agree that a lowered elbow results in diminished control of the motorcycle because lowered elbows reduce impact absorbing ability and are awkward in a ride forward, shoulders over the handlebars, "attack" position. A kinked wrist is not good for impact absorption either. A twist throttle makes the 'elbows up' position difficult to maintain, it results in asymmetry when throttle is applied, with one elbow up, the other down, the lowered elbow causing the shoulder to drop and upper torso to move to the side. Watch the start of any motocross race, including GP's and the AMA Nationals, all the elbows are up until the gate drops and then all the right elbows drop. (check here at 7.05min kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHXSfHxmnJ6GbJY and here from 0.00min kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHLSlJmNabGZodk ) All these drawbacks are amplified when the rider is standing. Regripping the throttle is the advised method of mitigating this, however this is less than ideal because it involves briefly letting go of the throttle grip to regrip the throttle when opening or closing the throttle. There is also asymmetry with the rider's connection to the handlebar with the left hand having a fixed non-moving grip and the right hand, a moving grip. The left hand/elbow can easily be locked into the elbow up, attack position but the right elbow is continually moving up and down.I believe that asymmetry lessens control. Having one elbow up and the other flapping up and down, having one fixed grip and one moving grip.is not ideal for maximum control either. Try going through supercross whoops with one elbow down. Regripping also lessens control. Try to regrip while skimming supercross whoops. If you regrip to keep your elbow up and you suddenly need to decelerate you can end up not being able to completely shut off leading to an unexpected surge or "whiskey throttle". Proposal I propose that instead of having the position of the throttle-grip determine the amount of throttle and power, one take advantage of modern electronics (load cells) and have a mechanism that determines throttle opening according to pressure, i.e. twist force rather than throttle grip position, so instead of the position of the throttle grip determining the amount of throttle, the amount of throttle is determined by how much pressure or twist force the rider applies, with negligible actual throttle tube movement. (load cells are pressure sensors used in electronic scales and give a weight reading with negligible movement of the scale) In internal combustion motorcycles, a standard production throttle tube assembly could initially be used but with rubber stoppers allowing less than 2mm of resisted movement and instead of the throttle cable being connected to the throttle body, it's connected to a lever that applies pressure to to a load cell, the load cell being connected to a drive by wire throttle control unit that increases throttle opening when the load cell signals increased pressure. Later, if my system takes off and goes into production the pressure sensor would probably be built into the throttle housing much like a position sensor is built into the throttle housing of current ride by wire motorcycles. The optimum ratio of pressure to throttle opening will need to be determined by testing. One could even offer the option of individual tuning of the pressure to throttle opening ratio by the rider to their personal preference, similar to the different throttle tube cams that KTM currently offers .The thing with different throttle cam profiles is that a quick or short pull throttle reduces arm movement which is good but lessons throttle control which is bad, so there is always a compromise between minimum movement and throttle control. A twist pressure throttle is a solution to this problem. Turning up the pressure to throttle opening ratio would be the equivalent of having a long pull throttle (for good throttle control) without the downside of lots of (+-35 degrees) throttle tube movement. Benefits The benefits of my throttle control mechanism will be; far less movement needed to control the throttle,resulting in an easy to maintain, locked in, stable, symmetrical high elbow "attack" position, especially while standing, no need to kink ones wrist when accelerating, no need for regripping when accelerating and decelerating, increased connection with the handle bar due to handlebar grip symmetry and therefore increased feel and control. With both handlebar grips being basically fixed, non-moving, like with downhill mountain bikes, connection and feel with the handlebars and therefore control of the motorbike should improve, minimum movement (probably less than 2mm of movement) when applying throttle, much less than a short pull throttle cam but with the throttle control of a long pull throttle cam, but better because all that movement (+- 35 degrees) can actually make precise throttle control more difficult, increased front brake control. The lever positions are fixed and on the clutch side, your hand is always in the optimum position for reaching the clutch but your right hand is always moving in relation to the front brake lever. With a non-moving throttle control your right hand is always in the optimum position for reaching the front brake. Having one grip that moves, feels natural and normal to riders because that is all they know, so they might have doubts about the benefits of having both grips non-moving, but imagine if both grips moved like the throttle grip, would that not decrease handlebar connectivity and therefore control and would that not make reaching the clutch lever more difficult and therefore lessen clutch control? So conversely having both grips non-moving should increase handlebar control and front brake control. It should benefit riders with limited right wrist mobility. (wrist injuries are common in MX/offroad) Motorsport ergonomics Improving the design of the machine for better integration with the rider. The better we fit the machine to our bodies, the better we can integrate our bodies with the machine and ultimately our nervous system, the better the feel, the better the control, the faster the rider can go. Ultimately it's about being connected to your machine, so that the bike feels like an extension of your body. The rider most intune with their machine is usually the fastest. A symmetrical connection to the handlebars. Not many would argue that having both grips move like the throttle grip would diminish rider control of the machine, conversely having both grips nonmoving should increase control. Engineers and mathematicians like symmetry and I'm sure so would motorsport ergonomists.

[@alfredk471]

Testing Proof of concept tests While I am convinced that having two non-moving grips will increase handlebar feel and increase rider control with the rider being able to lock in to the attack position, keeping the right elbow up, I also believe that a twist pressure throttle will actually increase throttle control. The only way to prove this is by actual real world testing. Top riders and professionals have spent much of their lives using a twisting throttle grip and how difficult it will be to adapt and familiarize is a question that can only really be answered by actual testing. Test riders might have to spend some time relearning an action that they have gotten used to over many years of riding. However it might not take long because the actions are so similar. One would need to find the optimum settings for the ratio of pressure to throttle opening, there is even the option of a progressive, non linear, pressure increase to throttle opening ratio. (it might increase throttle control) Only once they have totally familiarize themselves with this new action, found the optimum pressure to throttle opening ratio and are completely comfortable with it, will one be able to determine if this new control device does indeed improve rider feel,comfort, control and ultimately speed. Maybe initial proof of concept tests would be easier, less complicated and cheaper to do on an electric bike like the Freeride Electric (or even KTM's prototype electric motocross bike) rather than converting a SXF to ride by wire. Initially I would suggest a high pressure to throttle opening ratio for safety, making it less likely that too much throttle is inadvertently applied and then turning up the sensitivity i.e. lowering the pressure to throttle opening ratio until an optimum is found. One way to test throttle control, once the rider has familiarized themselves, and feels comfortable with the new system, is to see if they can wheelie comfortably. Also it would be interesting to see how first time kiddie riders on SX-E 5 respond to a pressure throttle. Three scenarios in a proof of concept test 1. The rider never gets comfortable with the pressure throttle and fails to reach the level of throttle control and overall control they have with the twist throttle or some unforeseen issues arise. 2. It takes some time for the rider to adjust but they persevere and then begin to notice the benefits mentioned above. 3. The rider quickly adapts because the actions are so similar and they quickly feel the benefits. Riders seem to adapt very quickly to the rear handbrake offered on electric and automatic Rekluse clutched dirt-bikes. When sitting on my couch trying to imagine a twist pressure throttle I thought it might be difficult to adapt but then when I actually rode my off-road motorcycle while imagining/simulating having a twist pressure throttle, I was surprised at how easy it seemed. In my 'real life' simulations it actually seems advantageous in tackling hard enduro type obstacles like logs and rocks. The benefits seem greater when simulating having a pressure throttle while standing. Changing something that has an 80 year tradition will undoubtedly meet resistance from engineers, management and riders. Real progress can only be made when norms are challenged. On the one hand, changing the controls, controls that have not been changed in 80+ years, may seem revolutionary but on the other hand, the actions are so similar that it's not as radical as some might assume. With the extremely high level of professional motocross today, even small advantages can significantly affect results. Every advantage, even small advantages, can make a difference between winning and losing. Real progress often involves out of the box, revolutionary ideas but a lot of good, innovative ideas are initially rejected. My idea can be seen as both revolutionary and evolutionary. The idea of changing a fundamental control like the twist position throttle with a twist pressure controlled throttle may be revolutionary but the actions required by the rider are similar enough with the traditional twist position throttle control that it could be viewed as evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Unfortunately twist force throttle control can only be implemented on motorcycles with drive by wire capabilities besides of course the coming electric bikes. Rumours have been circulating for the last couple of years that drive or ride by wire is coming to motocross bikes but with the current bikes it would require installation of a ride by wire throttle control unit. Converting a pressure control throttle to traditional twist throttle would be simple, so having the option for older conservative riders to convert back to the traditional throttle control (though it would be ride by wire) should not be costly. Summery Motorcycle riding is a balance sport and having controls that require large movements, like the throttle control, can upset that balance. Clutch and front brake controls are fine but the throttle control simply requires too much movement. My proposed throttle control mechanism will result in much less movement when controlling the throttle, it will allow the rider to lock-in to a symmetrical elbows up position which should result in a stable, symmetrical high elbow position and stable upper body position and it will eliminate the need for regripping when accelerating and decelerating with the added benefit of both grips being fixed instead of only the left grip being fixed, and the right grip being loose and moving which should improve feel and control, and improve access to the front brake. With the coming electric bike revolution the traditional foot controls will be eliminated. This will eliminate the need to lift ones feet off the pegs when using the back brake and shifter. Lifting ones feet off the pegs diminishes control of the motorcycle and with the elimination of those archaic controls it will make sense to replace another archaic disrupting control, the twist position throttle control with a twist pressure controlled throttle. I also think my idea would be particularly beneficial in hard enduro and trials and maybe even in the high precision world of motogp. Please let me know what you (KTM) think of my idea. Thank you Alfred Karius. PS. If KTM does decide to test my idea and if they do find it beneficial and decide to patent it and use it, I hope they have the integrity to reward me for my idea.

[@bobjackson8257]

@@alfredk471 see

[@107honda]

Excellent video can’t wait to get my Varg

[@mmig2116]

Future is definitely coming but let’s see what happens when everyone that ordered one has one ! Time will tell!

[@craigrobinson1234567]

Loving the content

[@gregwilliamsono9360]

How long before this takes over?? Will it be like the shift from 2 strokes to 4 strokes? Will they ever allow E-dirtbikes to race against traditional bikes?? Will it be 2 separate classes??

[@chrisp9708]

Think it depends if the ebikes will be competitive w the 450s. If so i think it would be cool to run them in the same class. Josh Hill can ride the heck out of one of those ebikes.

[@gregwilliamsono9360]

"Feels as light as a 125 with the traction of a 450" and.... the torque of a freight train

[@daniellarsson3699]

People fall for the electric thingy, as they did with the diesel car haha. Remember how the diesel car was gonna save us ? And now they are more expensive than petrol :P

[@BenWilson24]

That's because diesel got taxed more because of its emission levels compared to gas. Diesel engines are also more expensive to build and maintain because they have to hold up to higher compression. Then as demand goes down, the price per car has to go up. The performance and efficient improvements from gas to diesel aren't large enough to offset those costs. An electric motor is in an entirely different league in those areas. I didn't care about EVs and was on a team building jet powered dragsters, then some contract things came up and we had to change projects. We changed to building an electric landspeed record car. It wasn't long at all that I realized how much more an electric motor has to offer compared to a gas motor in terms of performance and adaptability. The price is just going to come down on them too

[@RydenAround]

Awesome content!!!! Bring it on!! EMX, best thing ever to happen to MX...

[@mxracer158]

You know carrying around another battery charger so I can enjoy a weekend of riding is not my idea of a good time. Knowing it does not run that long and requires time to recharge. Yes, this may be the next step in our walk away from combustion engines but this isn't the band wagon I'll be jumping on. I'll catch the next iteration of evolution.

[@melissakelly5813]

Coudnt of said it better

[@KWParrish]

Right, its not for everyone yet. But for me, I have the land for a backyard track but sound would be an issue. I also come from road racing, we bring generators for our tire warmers and fans etc. Its not a big deal. I got my son the electric KTM 50, its amazing. But i agree, this tech will only get better as time goes on, so I dont blame you there. There needs to be a true advancement in battery tech that gets us away from lithium. That will change the game for electric.

[@mxracer158]

@@KWParrish thanks for the reply. Agree, current lithium batteries are not the future. As an aspiring engineer I, maybe foolishly, seek out more sound end to end, cradle to grave sources of power. Contained, easy to use, minimal impact or almost zero impact on the planet. We need to do better for our planet without a doubt.

[@robertaccioHVA]

Stomp Grip? as a grip control add on.

[@schmittyshow8998]

i put some of that on my airbox it is a small improvement I like it. I think they need to make indentation in the bodywork for where your legs are supposed to be when standing...like a valley instead of all flat

[@jordanwhisson5407]

10,000 bikes presold X $18,000 = $180,000,000 there is a lot of money in MX to be made

[@GRAAmusic]

once you go handbrake you wil never look back.

[@dandlugolecki3408]

does the Stark come with a generator to charge it at the track?

[@kc72186]

Extra batteries that are easily replaced and affordable so you could have a half dozen ready to go at the track or trail, until then it's just another fad...

[@nillocyor2747]

Hand brakes with thumb throttle

[@rustyspropagandanetwork7131]

I'm Curious how much jake gets paid to shill for stark. I test rode a friends zero FXS supermoto hoping it would force me to be more excited for the "future" of motorcycles but it had the opposite effect. These things are genuinely very depressing, 12 hp less than my drz400 and only 50 miles of range in a city and literally only 20 at highway speed (plus 5 hours of sitting on your ass waiting for it to charge after). As sad as it makes me, I'm giving up on riding as soon as internal combustion bikes are no longer available.

[@Steezy_Mx]

More Electric Junk. I cant stand these electric bikes. before long they will all be forced down our throats and gas bikes outlawed smh

[@gpaull2]

Maybe, if you live in California. Even that I seriously doubt. These are in addition to, not to replace. They just don’t have the range to replace most forms of off road riding. As something in addition to ICE bikes, I welcome the new segments of the hobby that they may create. No way I’d ever turn down more riding opportunities. 👍

[@rustyspropagandanetwork7131]

@@gpaull2 i could possibly see an E bike being tolerable for short motos if you can swap batteries in between and you have no other options for bikes, but if you want a bike for commuting or general fun on the road any electric bike is hilariously impractical.