Can Iron Oxide Improve Your Black Powder?

[@the_great_tigorian_channel]

Interesting, I mostly use rust in my “white powder” which uses sugar (sucrose) as a carbon source and it does improve the burn rate. In rocketry it increases specific impulse which doesn’t always just mean burn time, but overall thrust. Your choice to use it in blackpowder and in just less than 1% *_MAY_* be a reason it didn’t help much. The one time I used it in my own blackpowder I had a slightly hotter burn but I was using the classic 75-15-10 ratio and you have already altered your own ratio to introduce a higher level of oxidizer which is what rust is trying to do. So it may be that the rust is hindering your performance here because it was meant to solve a “problem” you already found an alternate solution to. At this point, the rust might just be “getting in the way” of your 77-13-10 ratio. P.S. *SUPER* glad you didn’t put that aluminum flash powder in your gun all that time ago, that stuff is used as a bursting charge in fireworks and flashes way to fast for muzzleloaders to be used safely. Keep up the great work!

[@davisrs1]

10-4 Fellow rocket, black powder, fireworks guy!👍 Most of that stuff will never see my flintlock!

[@LittleFireWithin]

Same here 😂​@@davisrs1

[@lightweight1974]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. The iron oxide,an oxidizer, will help, but it'll be filthy and leave iron clinkers in your barrel. Not a good thing. Of course, I could be totally wrong. Either way, I'll be watching. Knowledge is a good thing.

[@lightweight1974]

I guess I'll keep my speculations to blackjack😊

[@Fu3R4]

I don't believe it's considered an oxidizer. It's just an oxide. It is the oxygen source in thermite reactions but that's because aluminum has an extreme affinity for oxygen and the ignition temperature of thermite is very very high.

[@chadrichard6388]

Iron + tumbler = spark = boom ! Maybe add some ground flint to the iron in the tumbler ! Not for me .

[@Dreadought]

No. metallic iron sparks, Iron oxide is no longer metallic. Provided that the Iron oxide used is fully converted, it cannot cause sparks.

[@chadrichard6388]

@@Dreadought Thanks .

[@taofledermaus]

At least it didn't turn into thermite.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

It could always be worse

[@taofledermaus]

@@Everythingblackpowder Have you ever tried White Hots? I'm going to be testing those 12ga muzzle loading pistols again and starting with one of them with a 1 1/4 oz payload (8, 000 buck)

[@bensmith4563]

Thermite projectile i wonder if it can be done with 12 gague

[@chasebh89]

I'm betting the garmen WAS reading properly but the iron content in the smoke was enough to temporarily blind it. Like trying to find a bumblebee in a snow storm

[@flavortown3781]

They have iron additives in the smoke generators on tanks and it confuses radar

[@geargnasher9822]

I think so too. The smoke was pink, if it's a radar device then for sure it has an effect. I had trouble getting bismuth/tin bullets to read across my magnetic chronograph that reads lead alloy perfectly, must be that the lead-free metal wasn't dense enough to reliably trigger the sensors.

[@ianxtreem]

just say no. if iron is burning, it's burning at a temp that will damage your barrel.

[@USMichigunPrepper]

I strongly concur!

[@SicilianSSFR]

Don't put aluminum in black powder, its going to generate alumina (Al2O3) in combustion which is an extremely hard ceramic, not something you would want coating your rifle grooves.

[@Zane-It]

Good to know thanks for the input

[@davefellhoelter1343]

OR? I glaze my groves? Yes I was in the Glaziers and Glass Workers, and foundies and forges, and passivation and pipe pigging. alumina may be a great surface passivation.

[@SicilianSSFR]

@@davefellhoelter1343 if the alumina is bonded to the surface, sure. if its loose micro crystals, it will erode the barrel.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Iron oxide and aluminum powder mixed, that's the basis of a thermite reaction.

[@robertlewis4666]

We used to have a BP substitute here called Sannadex. It was bright pink worked pretty well and we were happy with it because there was little else available here in South Africa. I guess it had a fair amount of iron oxide in it. 65 grains in my rifle chucking a Maxi bullet it managed a comfortable 1750 odd fps @ 6000 ft above sea level in 35 deg C temp

[@sandroventania782]

Sannadex is based on chlorate and sugar. It should also contain iron oxide. But it is not necessary, just chlorate (60%) + sugar 40% is already much better than Black powder.

[@jansuchomelLBC]

My guess is it will be slower. I remember reading some paper, where they used metal oxides (TiO2, ZnO2, MnO2,...) to slow down burning rate of black match.

[@jansuchomelLBC]

correction: it was composition for time fuse not black match

[@daveyjoweaver6282]

The IRON MEN! I recon it just ain’t as good! But Thanks for experimenting for we fellers out here in Tube Land! Many Blessings and Meep On Shootin On! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

[@patchvonbraun]

Burn rate catalysts for rocket propellants are tailored quite closely to the chemistry of the propellant itself. Fe Oxides work OK with ammonium perchlorate propellants, but not necessarily with other types of compounds. Details matter.

[@genebishop1405]

In my own opinion, not that it matters that much if any, I would leave the iron oxide out of the mix. It's not needed, and it is a contaminant as it made a dirtier propellant. Good that you are looking around / experimenting trying to improve the product, but searching out other carbon sources would seem like the way to go (but you never know unless you try). Great video as always, very interesting and honest result reporting! Keep up the great work!

[@Nitricike]

I'm wondering if the rapidly-moving stream of iron oxide from the barrel was throwing off the numbers a bit, or at least making it hard to get a reading from farther away... effectively "masking" the projectile.

[@johnathanmurray4777]

The rust is probably acting like "chaff" and scattering the chronograph's radar return.

[@jimanderson4981]

In the early 60s I checked out a library book on how to make solid rocket fuel using various powdered metals. I tried one of the recipes using powdered steel as the fuel and potassium nitrate as the oxidizer and it work but not as well as some of the commercially available model rocket engines of the time.

[@randywollin5732]

Sounds to me like you have some very educated viewers watching your videos. I read some of the comments before adding mine. Seems you have found the standards to compare anything you cook up. I know there are things in chemistry to make make things burn differently but where do you want to get to. The clean shooting aspect is the thing that is the most important to me and it seems you have come as close as any I've seen. Keep up the good work my friend. Good vid, thanks as always.

[@vca-bara1435]

I have played around with this myself, if you want to give this a fair shot, use Dark Brown Iron Oxide (Fe2O3). It sounds silly, like an overly specific detail, but the difference is drastic. All Iron Oxide will increase Oxidizer Efficiency in certain compounds. (Burns Cleaner and Hotter) However, Red Iron Oxide won't really alter burn rate under almost all conditions. So in BP, it would act as a contaminant only, slowing velocity by essentially just having less fuel mixture per grain. DB Iron Oxide will accelerate burn rate under pressure in certain formulas. Ther may not be the necessary reactant to cause the specific reaction you want though. In which case, try introducing another 1% of Microcrystalline Cellulose (MCC) powder, this is a saccharine compound and will introduce the catalyst needed for proper conversion of the ferric compounds. Switch to DB Iron Oxide and bump it to 1.5%. It may actually help neutralize some of the sulfur compounds in the bore and introduce ferric hydroxide (a cold bluing compound for steel) in the carbon fouling. Also, the reason that pistols lose velocity is related to the supersonic expansion rate of your gas. BP burns near instantaneously under compression. However, the gas generated during combustion can only expand so fast. Typically this is primarily affected by the gas composition, which in the case of BP is typically primarily CO and CO². Decreasing the amount of CO2 in the gas will increase the velocity of the projectile. That is why the velocity of BP can't outshoot smokeless, which has a higher supersonic expansion rate and generates less carbon gasses.

[@avionics21]

Never add powdered metals to your black powder. It will go past being a "low explosive" to a flash powder, or, the beginning of the "high explosives" realm.

[@robertlombardo8437]

Yeah. I mean that might be a better idea if you were trying to make a jam tin grenade like the British did in WW1. Tin can, gunpowder and match fuse.

[@richarddean3154]

When I was in the US Army, we used shock tube as a component of non-electric firing systems. We were instructed that shock tube used aluminum powder and could carry an impulse around the world and detonate a single blasting cap. We were also told that is was highly carcinogenic. Glad you didn't play around with that stuff.

[@24680kong]

(Waiting for the video to drop). Interesting. I know iron oxide acts as a catalyst in modern solid rocket propellants. Maybe it will increase burn rate or help get complete combustion with less mill time. Cant wait to see.

[@ToddHayseed-114O19]

Iron Oxide is one of the components of Crimson Powder, which is used to eject the parachutes. Crimson/APP can be used as an "antique muzzleloading propellant" to get around D.O.T. transportation & shipping regulations. Lets you use smokeless powder lube, but It is significantly weaker than Black Powder and difficult to ignite in a flintlock.

[@danwyrick322]

Yes, I asked well back if you've done anything with aluminum powder to increase velocities of the lower yield home made Antique muzzloading propellant. But for this experiment you used the osage orange, which already has a good velocity.

[@paulbrown7275]

You can see the muzzle flash has a pinkish red hue , but the Flash pan still has a smoky white look

[@millcreekrange]

You Sir was correct. Iron oxide = Rust and I combat that stuff on a daily basis and I’d never put it in my powder. Great Video as always. 👍👍

[@ToddHayseed-114O19]

Iron Oxide is a catalyst used in Crimson Powder. I don't think there is anything in Black Powder for it to react with. Probably be like adding sand.

[@JayBolter-v3w]

I have played with iron oxide in lots of different recipes for pyrotechnic and rocket fuel and I found that in some cases it can have enough heat to burn completely through a rocket motor case even though the case is made of aluminum so I myself would not be stuffing that in any of my cannons or my antique blackpowder firearms thank you very much and I make about 20lbs of blackpowder a year and that's all I use for muzzleloader propellant..for pyrotechnic purposes you can use just about any oxidizer, carbon and powdered metals sources to get a given effect because you are not reusing the cases that contain the contents which most of the time are completely destroyed in the effects ... SO please be careful when you are experimenting with unknown or unfamiliar chemicals or reactions that may be hazardous or even toxic when reacting..THANKS.. this is my opinion..

[@kristijanleitinger4478]

Here is a first hand experiance from someone who did play with iron oxide with rocket fuel (also KNO3 based) and got half of my face burnt off. There is something to it but my guess is that you realy need a real small amount not to get the diluting effect. But on the other hand ash its self is a catalyst and its at about 3% in charcoal so... same story. BUT! Different woods have different ash/minerals wich apparently is also a big factor in BP. I like how, despite all the centuries of development it still is more of an art thain a science

[@sandroventania782]

I've made powder with matchsticks and mixed it with BP 3F...about 30% matchsticks. Do that and you'll get over 2000 FPS. Jack, have you checked if the Swiss powder has the same grain size as yours? The more fine mesh powder you have in your 3F the faster it will be. Do you see what I mean?

[@PwntifexMaximus]

Oh, and iron oxide INCREASES burn-rate in rocket-motors. But, as you have pointed out, this happens at a lot lower pressure and a lot slower than in a muzzle-loader, with an actual flame-front spreading throughout the handful of solid grains over several seconds. As far as I understand it, the rust makes the flame-front "bubblier" as well as making it more consistent. In BP the flame-front is all around all the individual grains at all time.

[@keithmoore5306]

a new one to me the only time i've heard of iron oxide in powder is that one recipe i told you about where it replaced the charcoal!!

[@conspicuousman5162]

I would LOVE a collab between you and Tech Ingredients!

[@kr6dr]

That is an awesome group for offhand shooting. I bet with some sticks you could have an inch at that distance. Thanks for investing the time to share your findings.

[@gvii]

I have doubts. Not only do I doubt that it will help much, but I have a feeling it's just going to be more gak to clean out afterwards. If it were of any significant advantage, chances are they would have figured it out at some point in the past and adjusted accordingly. Rust is pretty common, and there's been a lot of very smart people in and around the industry over the hundreds of years it's been around. But I guess we'll see. Be interesting either way.

[@robertgriggs4171]

British would have been on it.

[@victormartin2774]

You can try putting very small copper particles in or on top of the powder, it probably won't improve anything but you can make cool green sparks.

[@michaelreynolds867]

Anyone notice the smoke was pinkish instead of blueish white...or is it just me..lol I tumble with marbles..normal size with the bigger ones mixed with those half round blobs you find in decorations.

[@robertlombardo8437]

I'm pretty sure that's uncombusted rust powder. Cause I can't see this doing much of anything to that powder except propel it outward like shot.

[@brucepeters-d4g]

Thanks for another great video and thanks for testing contaminants so we know what they actually do.

[@jachse8464]

I have suspected for a while that it is the contaminants (anything not carbon, sulphur, or potassium nitrate) that cause the differences between charcoals from different sources. That these contaminants are mostly beneficial is indicated by charcoal performing better than pure carbon. The recipe from Foxfire suggest using stale urine when picking to improve performance. Details on chemical composition of various woods is sparse and highly variable. My hypothesis is that hedgeapple contains higher levels of iron than cottonwood. This comes from analysis of seeds from each where the amount of iron in hedgeapple was expressed as a percentage and in cottonwood in ppm.

[@kencoplen4834]

Many years ago i did alot of experimenting making black powder. Substituting about 10% of the percentage of the potassium nitrate with potassium perchlorate will safely increase the burn speed and velocity. Potassium perchlorate contains more oxygen molecules and will not react with the sulphur.

[@USMichigunPrepper]

Iron oxide, specifically iron(III) oxide (Fe2O3), does not technically "burn" in the traditional sense, but when used in a thermite reaction with a reducing agent like aluminum, it can reach temperatures up to 2500°C (4532°F) due to the intense exothermic reaction that occurs when ignited; this is considered the effective "burning" temperature in that context. Iron oxide alone doesn't combust at a specific temperature, but when mixed with a suitable reducing agent like aluminum in a thermite reaction, it can reach very high temperatures upon ignition. Thermite reaction: The high heat generated in a thermite reaction is due to the rapid oxidation of the metal (aluminum) by the oxygen in the iron oxide. The maximum temperature of burning black powder can reach around 1400°C. Which is not nearly hot enough to ignite iron oxide as an oxidizer, unless mixed with aluminum powder and potassium nitrate in measured amounts. Therefore, adding iron oxide to a traditional black powder mix will Foul the charge in slow the burn rate. that’s something you don’t want to experiment with in a traditional muzzleloader unless your building a boom Shaka Laka 💣

[@bobjoatmon1993]

Back in my amateur rocket days we used to make crimson powder (using iron oxide + KnO3) to load the ignitors for the main solid rocket propellant. So i think your 1% didnt have anything to act with, youd have to add extra KnO3 to match the stoch ratio of the FeO. So in effect youd have a binary propellant

[@rubendelazzari2523]

Sir, I think it is time to try with " sumac" charcoal and see... Should be also interesting to use Sodium benzoate (or potassium benzoate less hygroscopic) instead of charcoal, in accordance with us patent in which seem better muzzle velocity characteristic.... Also in pyrotechnic some people use "Benzolift" for improve the altitude of their mortars shells... I think it should be very interesting to see and test... So I suggest these ideas... 👍

[@robertstump4740]

Staghorn sumac makes one of my best powders. It and sycamore constantly try to outdo each other.

[@JOSHUA-zy6cu]

This seems strange to me but perhaps it could increase the exothermicity of the reaction making it more powerful but at the same time dirtier. I'm curious to see the result

[@Gunsmith-4570]

Saw video recently about, "Golden Powder" and ,"Red Powder" made from iron oxide as an antique muzzleloading propellant. Video was by Super Sneaky Steve

[@recoilrob324]

It might be an optical illusion....but it looked like the Garmin was pointed down rather than up toward the target. I've seen lots of people using them well beyond the 15" recommended distance to muzzle but they all were pointed directly at the target so the bullet flew down the flight path and was easily recognized and measured. If you encounter spotty readings in the future...maybe try tilting the Garmin up a bit more? Good video as your usual..and thanks for all the experiments.

[@ewathoughts8476]

My use indicated the beam is wider than tall, and the device does better if the barrel is to the side than above. When forced to have the barrel directly above the device I always angle it up just a bit.

[@Diogenes425]

Marvellous process of elimination. Great work.!!

[@Energetics_Testing]

As I mentioned in a live, adding any additives to BP will always have a negative impact, especially if your looking for a CLEAN and powerful BP, if your just looking for power then yeah additives should be added, but if you want a clean powder adding additives will always add to the amount of "filth" lodged inside the chamber.

[@randytricker8585]

Stoked. Love this channel.🎉

[@minigpracing3068]

This will be interesting, helps in rocket fuel but not sure about rifle fuel.

[@kirkboswell2575]

I'll have to do some digging, but there's a story about a widowed mountain woman who kept her kids fed with powder made only from iron oxide (no charcoal???). There was a recipe that went with the story, and she apparently used her sewing thimble to measure charges - one thimble for normal hunting and two thimbles for bear. Unfortunately, I didn't follow through at that time, so digging will now be required.

[@richbattaglia5350]

Tetanus would like a word with you.

[@crazydaze2792]

I have that article, It's been in a copy of Backwoodsman magazine. I also saw it recopied on a muzzleloader forum.

[@kirkboswell2575]

@@crazydaze2792 - Great! Which issue was it, if you recall?

[@robertstump4740]

I just found it in a forum by searching 'gun powder from sugar and rust'. Some old family recipe from the Ozarks using saltpeter (leached from the chicken run soil), sugar and rust with a ratio of 9/8/2. Interesting concoction but have never seen any reports of it tested.

[@corwinhyatt519]

I'm at 7:28 having a sneaking suspicion that the recomondations were from people who dabble in or heard something from someone who dabbles in pyrotechnics where the contaminents are intentionally added due to the variations in color they cause the charge to put off when they burn. Ain't going to see much of a difference during the day, and testing this stuff as a propellant in the application you're using it for after the sun goes down is a really quick way to have a visit from allot of grumpy bears.

[@noapologizes2018]

I have delved into making thermite with a chemist friend of mine many years ago. Magnesium and iron oxide. The iron oxide supports combustion but it also slows the rate of combustion of the magnesium. This will be interesting to see what your results are. If I were a betting man, I would guess it will slow the burn rate( in nano seconds). However, that does not mean it will decrease the pressures. As a matter of fact, it could increase the pressures.

[@charlesfritz7327]

Can’t forget the powdered aluminum

[@noapologizes2018]

@@charlesfritz7327 If you are referring to adding powdered aluminum to the mix, that may have been incorporated in the magnesium my chemist friend brought. I do not remember adding powdered aluminum to our concoction.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

@@charlesfritz7327 why we got our first ball mill, building the therm ite. as a Sparky we use "exothermic welding" I love this stuff.

[@Miningpastpresentfuture]

You can make thermite with Aluminum, Magnesium or any mix of the two. All of them react with iron oxides at a very high temperature and can be used for cutting or welding steel. That is the last thing you want inside your rifle barrel.

[@johanpire95]

I want you to keep making videos for a long time and staying healthy, before someone else tells you to replace some of your nitrate with ammonium nitrate, I find that a risk to compress it. Ammonium nitrate content in black powder was probably the main cause of exploding powder mills. Half or 2/3 sodium nitrate and half or 1/3 potassium nitrate in 72/18/10 might give you some extra speed.

[@thenogoodniks8673]

As always super interesting. Oxides increase burn rate in open air. If your making solid fuel or powdered fuel propulsion systems adding oxides will have a profound effect. But as an explosive in a confined space like a chamber of a rifle or inside a cartridge I suspect it would have the opposite effect and act as you have said as a contaminant.

[@sandroventania782]

Have you ever heard of Golden powder? When you add iron oxide, it turns into another powder... it even gets another name, crimson powder.

[@kenibnanak5554]

I always pre test my chronograph set ups with a few shots from an airsoft spring pistol. If it is working I get readings, if I don't then everything goes on hold till I figure out why it didn't read the air soft pellet. Cheaper than wasting real ammo. Eight to ten percent Aluminum powder added to and mixed with Ammonia Nitrate makes a high explosive called Tannerite. Black powder uses Potassium Nitrate so the result when Aluminum is added are probably similar. I think we call that Flash Powder. The mixture doesn't like moisture and will sometimes complain very loudly. Good call not to put the mixture in a gun. The British used to make and collect Potassium Nitrate by sticking metal pipes into big piles of pig and cow and chicken manure before a thunder storm, then after a few lightning strikes having slaves go through the pile and picking out the nitrate flecks. Iron oxide powder mixed with Aluminum powder yields a mixture called Thermite. It burns really hot. Adding a Magnesium casing (or just mixing in some Magnesium powder) adds to the heat.

[@benjaminmaguire1728]

I have read a study on sugar rocket composition that included carbon, iron oxide and a combination of both. The result was that both the carbon and the iron oxide additives individually improved the power of the rocket, but in combination they produced less power then the basic sugar rocket. So it would seem that, consistent with your results, carbon and iron oxide are incompatible with each other for some reason. P.S. I wonder if the iron oxide additive acted as 'chaff' which is designed to confuse radar readings... P.P.S. The name of the article is "Performance Analysis of a Dual-Fuel Sugar Based Solid Rocket Propellant". Google should work for finding it, though it never actually comes out and mentions my conclusion which is none the less verified by your results. It was interesting to me in its implications for the potential use of sugar in propellants and stabilizing the result.

[@Cannonbawlz]

You're a little bit more like Fletcher. "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rain 'in!" 😆👍

[@itatane]

Be glad nobody has asked you to try Ammonpulver yet.(At least, I hope they haven't.) It substitutes Ammonium Nitrate for the Potassium Nitrate. It was used as a propellant in the mid-to-late 1800s. However, it's viciously hygroscopic and from what I have read, doesn't offer any improvement in velocity. I'd be more inclined to carbonize granulated sugar than fool with that.

[@_muody]

Oh, people have asked already :-) Other issue with Ammonpulver, as far as I remember, is that ammonia salts are corrosive to brass.

[@FordGTmaniac]

I've asked once that they substitute Ammonium Perchlorate for the Potassium Nitrate. The perchlorates in general go bang really hard, but I've been told that the pressure will likely spike beyond what BP firearms can handle.

[@pyrotechnicSAR]

Ammonpulver - It won't work in a muzzleloader. It works at high pressure, like a rifle.

[@pyrotechnicSAR]

@@FordGTmaniac When burning, hydrogen chloride is released. It corrodes the barrel very well.

[@TheCuzMan]

Nicely done as always, have great weekend

[@vicroc4]

I know that you can use red iron oxide in rocket candy to speed up the burn rate - James Yawn has a bunch of information on using it to make model rocket (sub-D class) motors, which you need a really fast powder for. I'm guessing the chemistry of black powder doesn't allow for the same accelerant effect. BP already burns fast enough for model rocket motors anyway - that's what Estes uses in theirs (this same Estes that recently bought out Goex).

[@myfavoritemartian1]

The report sounds different, kinda soft. Plus the trailing smoke looks pink. Fireworks makers have what they call a "Combustion Enhancer", It is used with black powder when making firecrackers. I have some but don't know what it is.

[@plop55]

I think at this point, maybe you should start experimenting with different types of charcoal blended together to try to get good density and be faster and cleaner than Swiss. With that thought, you might have to put just the charcoals in the mill first to evenly distribute them and them add in the rest and mill it. Just my thoughts on it.

[@crgintx]

Iron oxide and aluminum powder will raise pressure to the detonation point in BP if properly confined and with a powerful ignition source. Iron oxide and aluminum powders in the right mix are called thermite and will melt steel.

[@Piecemakerfirearms]

(This is living on a mountain in the middle of nowhere) One time, I was out in my backyard shed making a couple of hunting cartridges, and a buddy shows up. We get to drinking, and the curiosity begins its work when lubed up with liquid encouragement. I had the bright idea of playing with some black powder shells with aluminum powder on top of it. This was years ago so i can’t even think of how much aluminum I put in the shell. And Hole Lee S*%t! So anyways- that’s how you make a flash bang! Like “Archer, mop mop mop flash kinda bang”.

[@sempertard]

Did you verify whether the formula called for Iron(ii) oxide vs Iron(III) oxide? Maybe I missed it somewhere in the verbiage on the video. Edit: Found this online --- Iron (III) oxide represents the most used catalyst in rocket propulsion. Its crystal shape tends to be dependent from the environment where it grows and is sensitive to the presence of additives [3]. The most common attitude is rhombohedral, platy, and rounded, with various thicknesses.

[@Mbartel500]

Without giving some initial indication of a clear velocity advantage, I don't see the point of introducing a contaminant to an already outstanding formula with osage orange.

[@davidstuck2866]

I would think, and I will say that I am no chemist, that the best gain would be something that adds oxygen to the powder. Which would raise the combustion temperature, which would also clean the powder residue up a bit. The big problem that I see with that. Is that it would likely increase the burning rate. Which in turn would increase the pressure. Which may burst the barrel steel. IF your barrel was made from modern barrel steel and could contain 75-80,000 psi, then a "contaminant" like nitroglycerin could prove useful. or if you could find some, Cordite. I have always wanted to "play" with that substance. but anything that you could find now would be in the vicinity of 75 years old. And I am 100% certain that it would not function as designed. The aluminum powder seems interesting. Since you work repairing automobiles, an automobile axle would be of sufficient strength to make a "homemade" 50 caliber smoothbore mini black powder cannon. The rear axle from my 2000 GMC Jimmy from the research I did is made from 4140 steel. Which, again from the research I did, is one of the steels used in making modern firearm barrels. That would let you test various chemical compounds without risking your B.P. firearms. Just buy a carbide drill bit (15/32"), drill a hole and have a machine shop ream or hone it to the finished size that you want (.500-.512"). Then just use a patched round ball. Plus it would be fun to play with. Your "pyrolosizer" might even be able to anneal and get the steel hot enough to reharden. I don't know the specifics of your kiln. Just something to think about.

[@johnfisk811]

What does one want to ‘improve’? The speed of the flame front, the speed of the deflagration of the grains, the temperature of the deflagrated gases? In India a solution used to deal with local meal powder was to use an enlarged combustion chamber with a substantial air gap and use adiabatic heating to set it all off at once rather than progressively by a flame front. The only addition I have ever known to be used routinely over a long period by anyone I know is 2% ascorbic acid and that principally to reduce fouling and smoke somewhat. Akin to the old practice of putting pinch of smokeless powder in and then the black powder charge, which I would not recommend as a careless error could have serious consequences.

[@pavelavramov9010]

I love metals, especially Al and Mg. Actually, rust is Fe(OH)3, it a hydroxide

[@robertmartin2060]

There is a powder that is called red or white powder. It's red oxide rust, sugar, and potassium nitrate. It's said that it works up to 50 caliber rifles.

[@psykoklown874]

It did seem to tighten the ES & SD (would need a larger data set verify), but then there are the downsides of reduced velocity and increased fouling.

[@dalehildebrand7709]

65% KNO3, 34% sugar, 1% red iron oxide does burn faster than without the iron oxide. Iron oxide is a burn rate catalyst. But it isn't as good a burn rate catalyst as sulphur. In rocketry, you want to maximize gas volume and minimize the molecular weight of the exhaust.This can be enhanced by adding aluminium because it increases the exhaust temperature. The best solid rocket propellant is ammonium perchlorate, rubber, and aluminum powder. If these ingredients are powdered and you mix them, you'll have a high explosive. NOT useful in a firearm. Metal powders and oxidizers can detonate.

[@trevorfitzgerald4996]

Another great video.

[@MichaelLloyd]

You have two choices for speed range in the Garmin on the Rifle or pistol setting. 600-1700 and 1700 - 5000 fps. Whichever you chose was right on the edge of too fast or too sloe for the Garmin to read.

[@willPenny]

My guess is the ironoxide requires more heat to release the oxigen than your powder is producing, the oxide with aluminum is called thermife and is used to melt steel to weld rqil road tracks ect,

[@brianr555]

The professor’s lab has been working with a new element addition…this is gonna be good! I saw someone in another vid using an aluminum powder of some kind, for making diy percussion caps more powerful and consistant?!?! Just another rabbit trail…

[@gunslingerfromwish4656]

you should try coconut shells or rice husk for a carbon source.

[@kno3me-wz3bo]

Hey brother can I make a suggestion for the carbon. Can you try using the same orange wood and a circular saw. Cut heaps of wood and collect the wood dust and use that in the retort. My thinking is the finer the material the easier it will be to burn off the shit in the wood. Shit paper seems good coz it's so thin already I think. LOVE ya work mate from 🇦🇺

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Alright

[@Godwh1sperer]

People can speculate either way, your fully standardized technique shows which way the cookie crumbles in the real world. I had expected a modest performance increase. You could try a percent of black copper oxide, a more powerful catalyst. I'm not sure if that's good to mill though.

[@Friedbrain11]

Yes, Iron Oxide is added to slow the burn rate.

[@billietyree2214]

Is everyone forgetting that invariably a lighter charge than the heavier one, is the more accurate charge. You gotta hit it to hurt it.

[@pavelavramov9010]

Fe2O3 can increase power (decreasing the time of burning), but it cannot change the energy release. In your case energy release does really matters, this is the limiting factor. I’ve got the answer, thank you.

[@_muody]

On the other hand, not all energy released is actually used to propel the bullet, so if we manage to utilise more of it, then we should have faster bullet.

[@SuperSneakySteve]

Adding Iron Oxide and Carbon to Golden powder turns it into Crimson powder which gives it a big boost. Golden powder is made with vitamin C and they all work great in muzzleloaders. I have a test on my channel.

[@308dad8]

More fouling and lower velocities is definitely a loss not a gain so, yeah bad contaminant. I remember reading about an improvised powder to be used loading cartridges for improvised guns and it used iron oxide powder, called red powder. Maybe in that circumstance (of the improvised red powder) it is beneficial, but clearly hurts whatever is going on with Black Powder.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Have you tried Manganese dioxide? I recently learned that ancient humans used that material in powder form to make friction fire starting easier

[@ThisOldChris]

The way I see it, if a metal oxide gets hot enough to help with combustion, it would probably be hot enough to stick to or damage the barrel.

[@ThisOldChris]

I would not try it in my guns unless well proven that it's safe.

[@RichardCook]

iron absorbs heat like crazy so i would assume it would slow things down that's what happens in massive stars when the start to create iron in the core it takes more heat than it produces and in turn kills the star resulting in a supper nova

[@duacot6633]

at 8:31, the person talking about rocket motors... I thought iron oxide is used as an infrared barrier to limit premature ignition in a rocket motor while also giving the burning propellant a little bit of a kick. I can't recall my source of reasoning but i thought the iron oxide also needs to be coated in linseed oil; this could be a takeaway from pyro compositions. I don't have my books near me to provide reference on this.

[@johnt.chambers4204]

Being as I am not a chemist, I am not going to get caught up in chemical composition. Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but I am less concerned with why it didn't work than just the fact that it didn't work. Let me make it as simple as I can, at least in my opinion. Less fouling and more velocity = GOOD. Less velocity and more fouling = BAD. Nevertheless, I do admire the fact that you are experimenting with different materials trying to get the best combination. Even a failed experiment is good because it shows us what doesn't work. Thanks for another good video.

[@Slowly_Going_Mad]

I think what's going on is the fuel, it's dead weight in BP. Iron oxide promotes the decomposition of nitrate and sugar in rocket fuel but I'm thinking this is obviously not the case for BP. As to why it may be that it just helps break carbohydrates down more (split them into short chain molecules) than it really does anything else (it's contribution to catalyzing nitrate is negligible.) With charcoal there's almost nothing to break down only oxidize.

[@ixb1]

One powder which worth mentioning was "amide powder" which was smokeless predecessor.

[@GeoffryWK]

Iron Oxide is the main ingredient in Thermite along with powdered metal like Aluminum or Magnesium.

[@JustinSmith-ym4me]

iron oxide and iron/most metal powder make thermite. so itd run the risk of malforming your barrel from the inside if you mixed the aluminum powder and iron oxide both in to your bp. its also a super slow burn.

[@charlesfritz7327]

Black Iron Oxide is certainly superior to Red Iron Oxide in other “energetic chemistry” so maybe. Does blackpowder even get hot enough to utilize it as a fuel?

[@charlesfritz7327]

I hope it doesn’t get it just hot enough to bond to the barrel.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

@@charlesfritz7327 now you tell me…😉

[@thcola]

@@Everythingblackpowder I came to the coments to say exactly this. My guess would be that black powder doesn't burn hot enough to liberate the oxygen from the iron. Iron basically has to be molten, 2800°F, to free those oxygen molecules. I dont think black powder gets over ~1400°F

[@_muody]

Red iron oxide is not supposed to act as a fuel or oxygen donor here, but rather catalyst.

[@charlesfritz7327]

@@_muodyI thought it acts as a retarder?

[@sylwestermichalczewski9095]

Accordind to my (humble) experience the only reasonable decomposition "accelerator" would be ammonium dichromate (0.5-1% content). However what I know for sure, it works good with ammonium nitrare based mining black powders. And I assume it would acts rather as the "contaminant" when you try to apply it in "antique muzzleloding propellant" - same as the iron oxide... Reason: ammonium dichromate produce solid residue which is green color chromium (III) oxide. It is also very hard abrasive material, despite it's very dispersed. So, it could works as "pollishing powder" inside of the barrel - decreasing barrel thread lifespan... Ergo: using this agent in muzzleloading firearms is very questionable.

[@robertstump4740]

It appears the only advantage of adding iron oxide is making your first several shots go into the stealth mode. They'll never see it coming.

[@MediocreNed]

Have you tried making ammonpluvr yet? It's supposedly the easiest smokeless powder to make, 87% ammonium nitrate, 13% charcoal. I haven't seen any significant documentation on it besides a sole guy on the castboolits reloading forum. He said it worked like IMR3031, but had to make a duplex load with a tiny amount IMR4895 to set it off. I can post a link to the thread if you're interested.

[@ricklindert5649]

My dad had a reloading manual from way back written by a Phil Sharp. In this book was an account of the French using something very close to what you described. It was ammonium nitrate and charred oat straw. This was then pressed into a solid cylinder with a star shaped hole through the center. This was used for artillery during WW1. It was said to work very well except that it was hard to keep dry, and it was prone to break up under freezing temperatures. They had used it for a while to stretch nitocellulose supplies, but they dropped it when they could. Had they been fighting in a hot, dry place, it might have been very good. I enjoyed your comment, by the way.

[@johanpire95]

Did he compress his powder into pucks?

[@robertstump4740]

Check page 49 in the book, The Chemistry of Powder and Explosives Vol. 1. Towards the end of the black powder era there were many experiments with "white" powders such as Amidpulver, Ammonpulver, Guanidine nitrate powders, Raschig's white blasting powder, and Powder Brugere. It states the ammonpulver is very hygroscopic, intolerant of wide temperature swings and is difficult to ignite. That last one could be a problem for Jake's flintlock.

[@MediocreNed]

@@johanpire95 @johanpire95 Probably not, since Linstrum doesn't mention it. I tried linking the thread here but i think youtube is deliberately eating it so just google "Ammonpulver Project Update" and the link you're looking for is from castboolits. ​@robertstump4740 I was thinking he should use his lee enfiled or a mosin to test the ammonpluvr since it's a smokeless powder that's reached 2200 feet per second from a mosin.

[@MediocreNed]

@@johanpire95 No, Linstrum doesn't mention it. KZbin is eating my comments so I think I tripped auto filter now. Try googling 'ammonpluvr castboolits'.

[@isaaco5679]

I had a similar thought, perhaps more dangerous. I haven't tried it yet, but i was thinking of replacing a small amount of the sulfer with iron pyrite (fools gold). Ive only made one batch of powder so far.

[@dylanvisitacion8618]

Iron oxide is great. Sprinkle it over cereal or ice cream. Or eat it right out of the can for a quick pick-me-up 👍

[@davisk1234]

In rust we trust.

[@jeanladoire4141]

iron oxide has quite some thermal inertia, one would expect it to make the reaction slower

[@rayminer-lk7sl]

I use iron oxide to slow down willow and to change the color of the flame in rockets or stars. I would like to see you do something on the amount of water you use for me my kno3 retains moisture as it is granular and I can not bake all of the water out of it that makes the powder clump, after milling for a while, around 1.5 % so i need to add 1.5% water to make it puck nice for a total amount of 3% water. If I puck with out adding more water the powder is weaker. I add water to bond kno3 to charcoal and sulfur. I live in New York lots of moisture in the air. You live in a hot dry area. So I am sure their is some difference. The amount of water makes a difference in how fast the powder is. If powder is too wet for too long the kno3 grows as it is what sucks up the moisture the most, and then I need to re mill it and start over. try weighing your powder before adding water and after adding water then you could tell us how much you use

[@EnvirotekCleaningSystems]

I know it might sound counter-productive, since it seemed to make the "best" black powder worse, but what would happen if you used "contaminates" in the powders that used the carbon sources that weren't the best? Maybe it can't improve the best for some reason, but is able to help the powders that didn't perform as well. Also potassium nitrate is the oxidizer and charcoal is the actual fuel in BP. Iron oxide is a reducing agent that gives up it's oxygen to the carbon (I think) so maybe there is a way to increase performance by playing with the percentages of potassium nitrate or sulphur and replacing them with iron oxide, or I'm a complete idiot. Either could be true, or even both I suppose.

[@MartinMizner]

Under some conditions Iron Oxide is a good oxidiser (in thermite) but it seems it doesn't react well with charcoal, maybe cooper oxide would do better

[@seth094978]

I would say that iron oxide is never a good oxidizer, but aluminum powder is such a strong reducer that it pulls the oxygen off the iron anyway. Iron oxide is only used in thermite so that the reaction produces molten iron and no gases. If you want a properly huge release of energy, real oxidizers like ammonium perchlorate will work much better. That's the basis of the propellant mix in solid rocket boosters.