Classic+ MUST Get These 10 Things Right! | World of Warcraft

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The long speculated Classic+ is a version of Vanilla that players have imagined where the game carries on with major patches after the final content patch.
Though it is unknown whether Blizzard will commit to this idea, many different things have happened since 2019 in Classic just because people keep asking for them.
Today I go over 10 things which I feel as though Classic+ has to get right and stick to in order to be a success.
Classic+ MUST Get These 10 Things Right | World of Warcraft
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#wow #classicwow #mmorpg

[@WillEmmo]

Click this link sponsr.is/WillE and use my code WILLE to get 25% off your first payment for boot.dev!

[@SolheimGaming]

Just don't give us Nightmare Incursions please

[@Trashking702]

Oh god those were terrible.

[@tacohitman4003]

For real man. Totally blew it.

[@powercheif]

Currenr incursions are fine. But they did really hurt phase 3 when they came out

[@Frostgnaw]

I stopped playing SoD after lvl 40. What made incursions so bad? Was it just a pointless grind?

[@Graahk-r8u]

@@Frostgnawwell on release it allowed all the people without jobs to get 3k gold and max level while everyone else got the nerfed version later that night.

[@ZoeXspecturm4698]

classic+ needs to make a ton content horizontally before it makes raids after Naxx, stuff to do 40-60, professions updates, new mounts and quests. and then worry about new raids and dungeons at 60. I don't want to never be able to see the new stuff because you need to get through 16 tiers of content.

[@thatmanonthemoon]

Yeah, "no raised level cap" doesn't work if you (effectively) have to grind gear instead of levels bc all your old shit is invalidated

[@Abrexfroman]

Spot on. But I fear they will just do it all again...

[@andromidius]

Its part of why ZG is still so popular, I think. It was behind the current tier but gave alternatives to gearing up and also had some unique items for people to want to go there.

[@snuffeldjuret]

very much this personally, I would add that restedxp has to be invalidated, the game has to leave the static stage where such an addon is so superior

[@Wheresyoutube]

Definitely disagree I just want more raids post naxx.

[@k241.-]

I just want to be able to play feral druid without needing to use a lv40 helmet during the entire game and without needing to farm lv30 weapons that gets consumed by use during the entire game. I just want that. Helmets and weapons. That's it.

[@SpeckMaster9000]

solution? Blizzard removes those two items. are you happy then?

[@Kyrrua_]

Those type of items are part of the charm of vanilla tho. Only caring about gear lvl and not their unique use is simply asking to play retail.

[@ramiallen6443]

I’m pretty sure you can trade the helmet in for relic that does the same thing now dude

[@ramiallen6443]

Google wolf shed trophy

[@Jassu323]

The best way to address the helm is to remove power shifting from the game. Some number of players are going to be attached to it for any variety of reasons (it's unique, it's the charm of vanilla, it's a big skill differentiator-you name it), but it's not how you want players to play your game. For the sake of making Druid a compelling class, it needs to go.

[@saintemz4648]

Not getting to enter Hyjal in classic was always very anti-climatic, you spend the entirety of northern kalimdor slowly climbing up the mountain (darkshore>ashenvale>felwood>winterspring) all for it to be a deadend before the peak lol

[@TheRealCeeJai]

You forgot 'no scaling'. None of this 'the mobs change level as you do' crap in the open world.

[@CoverCode]

I agree, there is a private server is opening in not to much time, that is ‘classic+’ that has stuff like a cash shop and level scaling… like brother you ain’t making classic+ you are making retail using the corpse of classic

[@none8018]

that’s ascension’s classic plus that they’re making people pay $30 for alpha rn 😂 it’s such a joke my friends playing on there and i don’t understand why, he says he just don’t have much time and want to level quickly

[@CoverCode]

@@none8018 I also never get the “I don’t have much time and I need to level quickly” what are you needing to level quickly for? To get the into the top 1% raiding guild? Brother you ain’t got the time, just take a deep breath and have fun leveling 😭

[@ccgamerlol]

forgetting "no scaling" is like forgetting "no reforging" it doesnt make sense, where is this idea of scaling-in-classic+ coming from?

[@TheRealCeeJai]

@@ccgamerlol It's simple: if the max level is capped at 60, there is going to be a strong urge to raise the level cap beyond that for other added, new raid tiers. In order to make room in the world for the extra levels (and reduce the time they have to spend making new quests for the new levels), scaling zones and quests like the classic zones are in retail right now would be an obvious solution they would look at as it's something they know. My comment is trying to shut down that idea before it's even thought. EDIT: In retail right now, mobs even scale based on your item level to 'not trivialize' the open world "content". Most are still a joke, though and it just artificially inflates the mob TTK.

[@LeRoiduSaucisson-t4o]

I think class balance is the one thing Classic + really needs. If you're not a rogue, mage or warrior, you don't matter on the DPS chart. Sure, you can find a guild that will bring 2-3 feral druids because they don't care about speedruns or parses, but from a player perspective it feels bad to be obviously carried by the actually good classes that deal 4 times your damage despite you putting in twice the effort. Pushing all specs into viability is something they very much should be able to do, and as the gnome man said, adding more specs like Smite Priest would be great ultimately. Aside from making the game more fun to play for more players, it will give it longevity by making you want to try other classes. Of course that comes from both making adjustments to the classes themselves and the items available to them. However, they need to keep the weird items in the game. Just make MCP have a CD instead of charges. I'd like it if they reverted some items that reduced the mana cost of your spells. Casting free rank 1 heals to keep the armor buff on the tank while benefiting from OO5 mana regen as a shaman felt pretty good while it lasted. Another way to make all classes more attractive would be to add more class quests. They're the best part of Classic already and getting more of that would be fantastic. That should both encompass questlines while levelling (priest notoriously had no class quest in classic between lvl 10 and Benediction before the Sunken Temple quest was added in) and max level quest. Stance, demon and totem quests are amazing and really make you feel like a warrior / warlock / shaman. I want that for all the classes. Sure, it'll require to take some spells/abilities that were available at trainers and locking them behind questlines, but that's for the best and those quests could serve as breadcrumb for other quests that give you cool class items like the Orb of Dar'Orahil or the famous Whirlwind Warhammer (axes are lame and swords/maces get boosted by racials). What about a lvl 60 travelling form for druids that lets them take someone on their back? Really the stag form from the modern game. More cool item quests like Benediction/Anathema and the hunter bow? Imagine a quest to rebuild Kel Thuzad's old spell book and wand in Naxx so that casters that aren't picked by their guilds for Atiesh still have something to look forward to. Or the fabled quest to purify Ashbringer for all the ret paladins and arms warriors around. Basically, give us more incentives to run around the world.

[@TheRealCeeJai]

12:40 The Eranikus questline WAS finished! It was just concluded in the Scepter of the Shifting Sands questline. You know this, mate. I've heard you talk about it, I swear.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

A thing I want: even more class quests, also profession quests to really add to the flair of what your character is doing. How that intersects with the people and world of azeroth. Maybe turn things like the not really existing class subfactions like (forgive me for being so forsaken brianrotted) the death guard, shadowstalkers and royal apothecaries into an actual subfaction.

[@kevedo93]

skip to 4:00 for video

[@peterpitonak4921]

sad

[@Lellena94]

Man is becoming a walkin add at this point. Dear god

[@bohne8746]

thanks

[@coffemaster123]

just unsubscribed because of this ty

[@kevedo93]

@@Lellena94 i think the ad is fine, he gotta earn his money, but his fucking long ass introductions to the actual video triggers me, 160 seconds to get to the ad and THEN to start his video

[@user-fj5hs1bi7y]

Video starts at 3:55

[@aceofheartsch7887]

As someone who plays TurtleWoW and has seen what classic transmog can look like, I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. I used to think that way, but the potential for horizontal progression with new gear rewarded from either quests, dungeons, raids or any other new content, is really a very appealing motivator. Plus, vanilla-esque styles lend themselves better to a more grounded aesthetic that looks a lot more coherent and less distracting on a whole. Not so many shoulder pads with planetariums on them and such.

[@Blackread]

Funny detail, the Sweet Amber questline is actually fully integrated into the RestedXP guide and it IS good XP as long as you do it efficiently along with other quests. That does however require you to for example grab the holy water in Stranglethorn before actually picking up the quest itself, so it's not too intuitive. Not really something you would do yourself if not following a guide.

[@mcrbelieve3923]

These kind of things are perfectly fine. You can do it without a guide, just need to know about it. Finding usefulness in apparently useless things is great. Adding a "proper" reward all the time would destroy classic, since it would incentivize a "must be optimal" behaviour. (even more than what we have rn)

[@kibble-net]

It would be interesting to see what's the story behind the Timbermaw in Azshara and their connection to the other tunnels, as well as a classic version of Grim Batol. Maybe even a Dark Iron Highway instance too?

[@mrillis9259]

On that old Dark Iron Highway.

[@lamMeTV]

Timbermaw makes far more sense as an ally to the horde than goblins will ever be

[@Envy188]

You guys dont get 1 crucial important thing. Blizzard is no more, its just a brand the people who made those stories, who had no time to finish them are long gone they dont work there anymore... so what do you think who would finish Timbermaw?? Most likely some blue haired girl... and you know how that would end... so yeah if wow+ happens it will be one hella garbage.

[@ugoboom]

turtle wow will be doing a totally new grim batol as the tier 4 raid, heres hoping we get a timbermaw hold dungeon too that links azhara to that one pathway near the rep vendor

[@mariogallego5513]

@@Envy188 if a blue haired girl cheated on you just say that

[@simonramos5553]

What about all the empty space unused on the map? All the empty mountain ranges, empty squares, islands that could be added. Theres alot here

[@jgalla5549]

Classic plus combat needs to feel more vanilla. For some reason, they made dps in sod do over triple the dps of a naxx bis fury warrior, just in MC, and everyone can do cata or retail-levels of aoe as if they’re a GM with cheats on. It’s absurd and sucks. Just bring dps within 85% to 100% of vanilla warriors’ dps, replace bad talents with more smartly designed scaling talents in specs that need it, offer more raid utility and mana efficiency for hybrids and meme specs, lightly make caster and meme spec gear statted better. Keep the pace of combat vanilla.

[@bisbrah]

every boss in classic dies in 30 seconds lol. this comment is straight dad guild

[@Straff_Dis]

I agree. Leave classes as they are. World PvP in anniversary feels so good. The scaling is perfect compared to the mess that is sod

[@jgalla5549]

@@bisbrah yes this would increase total raid dps, all they’d need to do is up boss health to compensate for increased raid dps…. What are you on about with the mention of “dad guilds”?

[@Spotnick2]

that's your opinion.. there is no fun in 1 button rotations from vanilla, good compromise is probably wotlk combat.

[@atrozzorta9602]

@@bisbrah You will never be able to convince these mindless drones that they are just shit at the game and that's why they call Classic the best and hardest version, you are wasting your time. Bosses with no mechanics, like in Classic, are actually difficult to these people.

[@Dazemazee]

I wish they would do horizontal progression, new sets for classes that change the playstyle for pve. not necessarily big power spikes. I think that would hinder new players from joining. Same with PVP, something for farm for more than R14, fill out the rest of the slots maybe.

[@snuffeldjuret]

imo, so, so, so much more should be done with professions. Profession grind ought to be more fun than quest grind.

[@professionalhater3929]

They should rework the r14 system completely it’s insane that you have to grind for 12-14 hours a day for months just to get the best items

[@deanp6817]

The ads ffs mate it’s a bit much

[@JoshIsnt]

Unlocks. Unlocks. Unlocks. Non-stat based progression for your character is the #1 thing that could keep classic+ running for years. If we want new specs, spells, etc., they should always be earned through gameplay. This leaves the core vanilla experience as the baseline of the game with the additions discovered as you progress.

[@JoshIsnt]

Btw, spells and specs are just the tip of the iceberg of what can be unlocked. Think of things outside of player power. Unlock new flight paths, boat/zeppelin routes, unlock access to new zones (for yourself AND your alts). The list goes on

[@DahnsHeart]

Classic+ really needs guild banks All this junk you get in raid, the mats in MC, the elementium in BWL, all the junk in ZG or AQ... Some poor devil need to waste a character to keep count of all of this and it's not acceptable. In Classic more than any other version of the game, the raids throw junks at you. A guild bank will really help everyone here

[@Sara.Space.H]

I think Itemization revamps could go a long way and to be honest a bit of mail and plate with int on it doesn't hurt anything. Some abilities should be added as well like pally taunt, maybe even do what warriors eventually got with their stance dance talent for druids and make that helmet version baseline. As far as quests go, tbh even early game a few more quests in zones would be nice. It's strange how the undead for example are told basically; 'well we're out of quests till you are a higher level go to barrens for a bit and come back'. I think WillE got the mid 40's part correct too, this would also be a good excuse to give useful new items as well.

[@quinn562]

I wonder if he has some kind of clause from working with blizz to not talk about the private server competitors - because I think they are sort of an elephant in the room when it comes to classic plus and what could be seen as a basic blueprint to what could be desirable, because ultimately from what I've gathered a major fear has been if the current team can actual create enjoyable classic type content without retail influences...I would have to bet they are scouting the content on those servers as well

[@MoonTurky]

Maybe its because they are not exactly competitors, but rather criminals to them stealing money off of their IP????????????????

[@Sornemus]

​@@MoonTurky people playing private servers are exactly there because the official version of a game does not satisfy them at all. They would not play it even for free. So it is not actually stealing anything. Stealing here would be if private servers actually started to charge money. And frankly speaking, if I managed to guess notes of Rickroll song on my ukulele, and play it at friend parties or smth - I am not "stealing his IP".

[@atanashristov8625]

Yeah I agree with you. I was a blizz player until MOP. Never done private server levelling. Because I don't want to pay I went to try TW and it's been great experience. They are really doing some things very well over there.

[@melak01]

@@MoonTurky silly you

[@JcJcvd]

Why Blizzard would lost time,staff and money for an old version with much fewer players and above all which brings them much less, especially when a $90 mount on retail brings in more money in one month than all the classic versions in 6 years,it's hard but it's the reality+ 90% classic players are already happy with the loop of the same content,no need for more.

[@PolarisIII]

so literally the oldschool runescape expirement but for wow, seperate game with different 'alternate timeline' updates while keeping the vintage/oldschool/classic feel

[@josephdevita2938]

They can learn alot for osrs. The way they did it was perfect. New zones for mid-end game, new minigames with meaningful rewards, new raids with new bis gear but it didn't completely devalue the previous bis gear as it was needed to craft the new bis like you break down bandos for torva or break Arma for mis. Sure you need to level up stats to equip the gear but in wow it would just be a new raid tier which every one is used to. Sod is already confirmed to be getting a scarlet enclave raid/mega dungeon so I foresee classic + in the future after sod is done with and all the kinks and wants of the player base is flushed out. I believe naxx should still remain the top dog of raiding but it would be nice to see other raids that have slightly lower item levels or perhaps some gear thats even better then naxx gear drop from the second to last boss and the last boss of those raids as opposed to the lower naxx bosses like the first 2 bosses in each wing.

[@Kensber85]

The biggest thing is that oldschool puts literally almost everything to a poll, and lets the population decide the future of it. If blizz did that i think that alot of the redditors and youtube video makers/comments would be surprised. FYI the general population liked incursions

[@egemenozan5641]

@@Kensber85 I have never seen or met anyone that said they liked them, so I find this hard to believe.

[@Kensber85]

@@egemenozan5641 your talking to one now. Not to mention my entire 10man group. Im an adult with a job. I dont have the time nor the want to do ZF runs for the 200000th time. Incursions were great and the casuals liked them because they were easy non-complicated and rewarded a good amount of gold you could use to get your mount

[@egemenozan5641]

@@Kensber85 I am a complete casual, and I really disliked them. They were tedious and unfun. Felt very much like a farming route a "sweaty" player would set up for efficiency and not the vanilla WoW I love.

[@Dewald-mj5hs]

Regarding Flying: One possible way to introduce flying mounts, is to disable Flying Paths, until you unlock your flying mount. Once you buy your custom Flying Mount, you can then use the different Flight Paths. Or, keep the flight paths, but unlocking a flying mount makes flight path travelling faster, and could also introduce new shortcut flight paths. And having a flying mount enables you to craft, etc whilst flying. I hope no manual flying is in Classic+

[@LordInquisitor-hk7zi]

For me the big thing thing they need to do is the changes to itemisation and tweaking the unplayable specs - don't make them crazy op like in sod, but at the same time give them a useable rotation; as someone who plays ret only having autoattack and judgement sucks, adding Crusader Strike and Divine Storm makes the game actually playable. Otherwise, all the usual stuff: New dungeons/raids, profession updates, new quests, fun events, general tweaks to QoL

[@Slayer666th]

I spent some thought on Classic+ the last few months and i think the easiest solution to class balance would be the addition of the profession „inscription“ again. But make it simple, since classic is all about simplicity. Make it 3 tiers of glyphs, 1 corner stone glyph that gives minor changes to classes, like inquisitor spec for priest, taunt for paladin and tank for shamy. then 3 major glyphs that add +10% damage/heal to any ability. Then 3 minor glyphs that give either + or - 10% threat to any ability (damage/heal) or minor glyphs that double buff duration. That should be a really simple system to balance things out with bigger changes through the corner stone glyph. 1 glyph every 10 levels, starting at level 10, with the corner stone at 30 as an extra after a quest chain or something.

[@draheim90]

I think I largely agree with yours. In no particular order, mine would be: 1. Significant QoL changes added thus far and/or in SoD. Dual spec being one of the main ones, but could list dozens. 2. Better gear itemization. Including potentially giving casters more of a reason to care about basic stats (e.g., make intellect do more than give mana and a tiny amount of crit chance). 3. Update the talent trees and abilities, including new abilities, rotations, and class balancing. Maybe not as many abilities as SoD, but something akin to the rune system would be good imo as would making more specs viable and allowing more role flexibility as SoD did. 4. Revamp the world including finishing unfinished parts of the game. Updated the leveling experience with new quests and new quest hubs, leveling raids are also nice but not necessary unless there will be level banding/phases again. Desperately need new/revamped end-game zones to keep players occupied beyond raid. 5. Different raid levels/difficulties (maybe even more so than SoD?) including some form of flex raiding and not requiring 40-man raiding. 6. Post-Naxx end-game content, including new raids. Stay at level 60 though. 7. Revamp professions, a bit like they did in SoD but ideally even further. Adding jewelcrafting and maybe others would be cool. 8. Additional PvE and PvP events, similar to what they did in SoD (just plz not Incursions or necessary dailies the extent to which we saw in BFA/SL). 9. No flying. 10. Should not be “seasonal” in the sense of having an end date. Relatedly, leveling should not be rushed and a lot of focus should be devoted to both making leveling feel fresh as mentioned (people who like classic have leveled the same way enough times by now…) and making it take a while. Probably at least as long as it takes now if not even slower (if there is enough to keep players engaged and not have to spend entire levels just farming mobs because they ran out of content). Also dungeons should still be rewarding only doing dungeons shouldn’t really be a viable way to level, maybe they include the daily lockout and XP changes from hardcore.

[@alottaguala9766]

I would really love to see fleshed out class quest in classic + finishing the ravenhold quest for rogues, giving assassination / steal this item quests and after a long quest chain that has you go all over the world (maybe even into enemy faction major city?) gives you a MC lvl dagger The class fantasy is so strong in classic and it makes the game feel infinite because playing a alt gives you a completely different lens Please more end game class quest that showcase the class fantasy mage trial has a lot of aoe and CC aspects, hunters go out and hunt big game across azeroth involing tracking and baiting, warlocks battling demons maybe unlocking new weapons or armor for their pets etc etc I think this would be great horizontal content at 60

[@andromidius]

Honestly SoD went too far, which is why there was a massive drop off with the players as time went on. Classic Vanilla doesn't need many changes to be fresh and fun. A little quality of life, a few buffed spawn rates of resources, minor class balancing, good release pace and you're looking good. The problem with Classic+, as always, is dealing with the inevitable power bloat and population dilution in higher tiers. Which is why they need to stop thinking upwards and instead outwards. Add more content to each tier that gives alternatives to the old meta, with Naxx remaining part of the highest tier. Without a major overhaul to the game it'll ruin whatever balance remained to go beyond - namely with Warrior scaling.

[@egemenozan5641]

Back when I played, ESO nailed that "horizontal progression" really well. Every class/weapon combo has tons of different gear to choose from that all did something else, and a lot of the meta builds still used old gear. That and a lot of meme build potential. I quit due to other reasons.

[@mariogallego5513]

log onto SoD right now and see how much its "dropped off".

[@Spotnick2]

the massive drop off was due to the lack of interesting content in phase 2 and 3... not because sod went too far. people are starting to come back now that they know new content is coming like karazhan and scarlet crusade.

[@georgem589]

@@andromidius agreed. Less is more. Tweeking the classes slightly will be enough to make the game fresh. Palas get mana from heal, a taunt and crusader. Balance druids get mana buffs and a dps ability, enhance shammys get duel wield, warlocks an extra ability in the rotation and so on.

[@wadebelknap7758]

One of the MMO's that Wow Devs can look at for a perfect example of classic+ would be how DCUO handles their content. Now, I do not mean the pay to win, Wow isn't that bad yet, but DCUO have kept their base at 30 since the game launched. They just add new content and equipment to what was already there. This could be an interesting way to handle it.

[@0-Andrew]

As for end game progression i always thought it would be awesome if they made questlines for each class or specific race with the rewards being extra talent points or something that improves your character that isn't tied to gear. They could then expand and fix more of the lack-luster talent trees

[@krisk7310]

They would have to add diverse content not just for the end game but also for leveling. Just filling in quests here and there isn’t going to be enough. I think they should implement more compelling profession dynamics and other things for players to do while they LEVEL. Make leveling a professions a big part of the leveling experience with actually enjoyable content, not just a text interface like professions are now. Also. Questlines that focus less on combat and more on adventure, puzzles, etc. would be nice. The classic world is so immersive-it feels like a living world-and it would be so much better if killing enemies wasn’t the only thing you have to do, especially pre-60.

[@fritzschnitzmueller3768]

Agree so much on the caster gear, especially for the leveling phase. Its just significantly more fun to level a meele due to their scaling with gear. Each piece makes you really stronger and there are a lot of worthwhile pieces to grab. For casters on the other hand, sure its nice to have some gear, but its not that significantly different. For questing: Ive never run out of quests on alliance side, when I tactically think about I do the quests. You gotta travel a lot between zones for, sure (starting with completing not only yours but also another races starting zone) but that way Ive never run out of quests. I ofc always try to complete the quests which are lower level to lower the chances that they give me less xp.

[@General12th]

Exactly. Melee gets to hit harder with each new piece of gear. Casters get to use their bolt ability one or two more times. Yayyy.

[@snuffeldjuret]

an abundance of quests is imo not a good thing, not in the modern age with questie etc. There is a reason why they removed the requirement to grind renown every season in d4.

[@KhanS.T]

Hey bro,Are we talking about a new realm or a Warcraft remake/reforge? Why do we need a new realm! There are already a lot of them and it's very difficult to decide which one to play in! Why don't we see this classic+ like WOW Turtle? And if such a remakes done, besides all these issues that we have talked about many times, I think the game economy and its monetization are the most important. Without wowtokens and balance, it will be expensive and worthless to play.. Talk about this!❤ If Blizzard wants to remake the game, we need a healthy economy, and after that, without bots if the game is only usable by real players..😢

[@melak01]

If they have dual spec in every version going forward there should be limits to it, perhaps only switchable in an inn or something like that. And it should perhaps be a quest chain and not just forking over 50g, something more meaningful etc.

[@recka5000]

For the questing part, yeah it's not about it being "faster" it's about always having a quest to work towards. Will quest XP naturally make it a little faster in those zones than grinding? Sure but I don't exactly think it's detrimental amount

[@snuffeldjuret]

questing as it is is bad for the game. The optimal way to play the game cant be to grind the same quests over and over again. classic+ needs a non-static world

[@ThomasKainer]

A proper Classic+ is something i would again pay the money like a new expension. Modernize the whole game, without chaning it's "core". More QoL without "retailing" it. - permanent, but more in terms of "this is not just an experiment". More like "Trust me, i am Blizzard, go with me on a long journey and you shall be safe here" :) - upgrade to next expension, but also with a + (TBC+). - no rushing of content, phases or next expensions. "Slow pace" is the name of the game. (Keep in mind: slow pace doesn't mean grinding until your arms fall off). - more flightpoints. Not behind every corner like in Retail, but some walking routes are just ridicuiosly long. - guild banks. - raid size 25 instead of 40. And optional 10, if it's not to hard to make (balancing, gear...). - two difficulty levels for raids. - dungeon browser/Lfg. - summoning stones. - Dual Spec (like fresh). - instant mailing (like fresh). - keep quivers and arrows, but as extra slot (not taking away a bag slot). - class redesigns/balancing. No new roles or crazy experiments, but take a look at the "useless" roles and skills of every class. Careful not to destroy the current balancing. - quest log limit 30 or even higher. Since there is no campaign mode and you get all quests in a new zone at once it's kind of pointless to shuffle around with the current 20 limit. It's just annyoing and don't makes the game harder or something. - zones. Take a look at each zone and "finish" them. Do the thing you had not time for in 2004. Fill them with live and (if neccesarry) with quests. - quests. Some with quests, take a look at ridiculous drop rates, running order (barrens and the harpys...) and what not. Delete some, add some, change some. - professions. Love professions, would like to see them getting some more love from developers. . more endgame content. I personally like the weekly (and sure not daily. And sure no daily quest grind for gear) quests from TWW. Maybe it's to "easy", but adopting something like that to Classic+, i would like it. Sure there are tons of possible more or less little tweaks. Polishing > new content, although i'm open to it. Think in other games you call it something like Remastered or Definitve Edition.

[@rendymonyab]

I would like to see: - hit, crit rating on gear since it allows for fine grain control over stats - daily quests for some of the insane grinds (winter spring trainers)... But very sparingly and no gold reward - dual spec, but only at a trainer, and maybe with a longish cool down (no switching for each boss) - dustwallow new quest hub from TBC - additional qol fight points (from TBC)... Eg felwood and ashenvale... Probably more, but those are the worst - personally I'd like to see teldrassil moved further down the coast (next to Stone talon) so that it's more convenient to use as a capital city in kalimdor.

[@maddyleaf]

I think your version of why flying is bad is the weak part of the argument, the real reasons why flying is bad is 1. It makes the world feel small and irrelevant, no sense of awe or scale of things. 2. Less players in the wild, thus less world PvP, thus less competition over resources - it becomes whoever flies over the node first, there is no fighting over an area. 3. Easier for bot farms with gathering professions to triumph for longer, because players rarely see them and thus less reporting of them. 4. Tedium is not always bad, this goes for many things, in the case of flying, if you remove all friction of traversing the world it becomes a stale, boring experience where you never interact with other players or the environment. 5. You already have FPs, a system that requires you to traverse to a place before being able to fly there, and then you still need to traverse the zone to get where you really want to go. This is a much superior system, imo.

[@whiskeySe7en]

Wpvp argument is invalid

[@Bokkievanhall]

Well said

[@snuffeldjuret]

100% truth right there

[@garygood6804]

​@@whiskeySe7en wpvp is your daddy. Alliance scum

[@sebastianmanthey742]

There is no danger to flying and its quick. Thats why almost any player will always fly even small gaps because there is no logical reason not to. Create some danger in the sky! :>

[@R3ar3ntry]

I yhink we should have wotlk talents in classic +, but the last 20 levels could be not sctualy levels but like a prestige talent points, think of like artifact weapons or the new hero talents, and we suould get them over time, maybe x quest will give 1-2 talents etc

[@Followtheham]

I play SOD and i know its a testing ground potentiely for classic+ but blizzard pls dont go as far for classic+ as you did in SOD. We have to much power with all these runes!

[@Healindawolf]

i maxed out that centaur rep thought id get something for it

[@DominicKennedy-j5g]

8:08 No. Survival needs to be a melee spec. You already have a dedicated ranged spec and it’s a better fit for introducing talents that increase spell power with abilities like Arcane Shot, Volley and Serpent Sting. Ever heard of Arcane Archer? Don’t force Survival into down the path of a spec with no identity again like with retail…

[@alfonsekellogg9348]

Regarding flying, AION had the right idea for it back in 2010. Limited to a handful of zones that were PvP oriented. There's also the route ArcheAge went with gliding rather than flying.

[@Spotnick2]

it's also obvious to me they need to add tauren paladins and dwarf shamans if they ever do classic+ and don't go the route of including draenei and blood elves, those would make sense and would balance factions... i know a lot of people who simply never played classic because they couldn't play their class with their friends.

[@nagito6628]

A Classic+ forever server would need a ton of very strong gold sinks. Classic era has shown how incredibly gold inflates without something to funnel it out of the game.

[@Mocca_Master]

I feel like this kinda missed the mark for a single reason. If Classic+ is supposed to capture the classic feel and expand upon it, every added aspect can't be focused on the endgame. The thing that separate vanille from the expansions is that the leveling is part of the game. They should 100% add Uldum as a dungeon. But it should be between Sunken Temple and BRD.

[@snuffeldjuret]

yeap, 80% of the focus should be on non-end game stuff. Make the game wider, not longer.

[@oligarchy-usa]

I'm enjoying Turtle WoW Classic+.

[@martinjavurek4552]

Hey, are there any fresh servers or need to join existing one?

[@shrenko]

@@martinjavurek4552 existing one. The population is huge and new players are flooding in. People are lvling all the time due to lvling challenges so dont worry about not finding a group or anything. There is always people looking for dungeons and there is even a built in LFG tool

[@MoonTurky]

@@martinjavurek4552 Turtle WoW got shut down recently, its no longer available

[@oligarchy-usa]

@@martinjavurek4552 Currently the euro ones are just one PvE server that has been around since 2019 (they really need to add another one IMO) & a newer PvP server (which is underpopulated). A new fresh server is opening in the South American region though soon, as they begin to try & cater to that market.

[@martinjavurek4552]

@@oligarchy-usa thanks

[@kidcurrency8963]

Horizontal progression= Housing, cosmetics (no transmog tho) new professions, boat skill, dynamic world events, RP features, more intractables, more pets, mounts, achievements, maybe even armor dye. I still want some form of vertical progression but no new level cap and the same old retail formula

[@koopakape]

Yep, pretty much every single bit of this I agree with wholeheartedly; both what to do and almost more importantly what NOT to do, like flying or 'u are the hero' crap. And there's some excellent examples of classic MMOs blizz could look at for inspiration as to how to properly implement horizontal progression with new content; OSRS, FFXI and Everquest's first few expansions at least to name a few. A wholly separate, independently-updated Classic that follows these rules would be worth backing 100%, even if updates were slow, imo.

[@elassar4637]

For classic plus to be actually a hit like vanilla was in 2004 in my opinion they need to make a new world entirely, wow was always about that, about exploring and discovering new places. What made the game was the feeling of being just a little part of a bigger, living world. Other than that i think a few class changes would be all it takes. The only problem with this would be the lore aspect.

[@morgaine2501]

They should add some more fast travel. Lock bots in classic fresh should be a message to blizzard that it takes way too long to get around. Especially when quests want you to go all over the place. Spending 20 minutes just to turn in a quest and hope your hearth is back up so you can go back to questing is so painful.

[@CoverCode]

I think importantly no level scaling or cash shops either

[@snuffeldjuret]

or cash shop for just new character visual options, and dances etc. I think enabling infinite variability that way could be good.

[@MoonTurky]

@@keelhld94 I love how everyone is always so hard against the cash shop, but WoW is making more money than ever because everybody is hogging the cash shop like no tomorrow LOL Everytime a new store mount releases, capital city is flooded with them, get real dude people love the cash shop

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@MoonTurky retail and classic have two different populations though. Also, not everyone, I made a suggestion of a good cash shop item type :). Another one could be to buy an ai voice thing, but improved.

[@CoverCode]

@@snuffeldjuret see i hate this, the idea that we have to pay money every month and we still dont get everything? when the fuck did gamers become like this because i hate it, like mordern gaming and shops suck. Wow you bought the season pass? neat dont forgot to play the game before the pass will run out... what you thing you should get the thing you payed for? not gotta hit that FOMO. Wow you bought the game? neat dont forget to give us 99,99 for skins or other cosmetics, i mean sure you just bought the game for 70USD but i mean, did you REALLY think you should get the whole game that you payed for? PFFFFF Wow you bought the game? neat, dont forgot to go by our ingame shop to use your real money instead of time in the game to get better OP items so that you can win without earning it by playing!!! fuck i hate mordern gaming culture.

[@nicholasrohaidy8188]

Small but meaningful changes like maybe a talent that makes moonkin’s starfire refund 30% mana if used on a target with moonfire. Small tiny Change that solves balance mana issue but doesn’t drastically change any thing in terms of balance

[@zomfgroflmao1337]

You forgot bug fixes, especially with hardcore going on you can see so many stupid little bugs that in hc can actually cost people their characters for no reason and that would be absolutely a thing they should look into before they release something like classic plus.

[@erike9074]

One of the best videos you’ve done mate. I appreciate how plugged in you are to the classic ecosystem, your passion really comes across in your videos.

[@twolgast]

Proffesions and Crafting, thats a big thing we could do for content. Just not more recepies, more proffesions and more specialications. Crafting gear? Craft a sword that requires 340 in blacksmithing? Stuff like that. Bis gear should Come from 4 parts: raiding, pvp, dungeons and crafting.

[@MagnussenDK]

The one thing I really want, and have wanted since release, is all dungeons being viable at 60. There are soo many good dungeons while leveling, and I really hate that they are just basically dropped from the game, once you level past them. I have always, even back in vanilla days at release been a casual player, I did some reading, but never enjoyed it, as it always felt like a job. I did really enjoyed all of the 5 man content, and that is the cornerstone of wow for me.

[@georgem589]

How to make classic plus: - Release TBC pre patch - Never open the Dark portal - Keep max level at 60 Voila, classic plus!

[@bohne8746]

it‘s a good start!

[@galenhoeflinger7003]

A recent thought of mine includes porting any raids or dungeons that are in the original continents like Kara (maybe CoT) as options for classic+

[@theduncanthetank]

Prot Paladin definitely needs a taunt, some sort of defensive and some sort of mana reduction cost on spells because they go OOM way before a boss falls over. I’d love that though. It would definitely bring me back.

[@orbusg8451]

A little spellpower would go a long way on low level casters. I like mages, but basically all their damage increase comes from increasing the ranks of spells, and for the first half dozen ranks of fireball and frost bolt the cast time scales up with their rank (from 1 second to 3.5!) resulting in very little actual dps increase. I would also like to be able to play a warrior without everyone assuming I am by default a tank. I don't tank in wow for a reason. Pleeeeaaaaase don't ask me to tank.

[@BLKCLVR]

All I want in life is to DPS as a 2H Enhancement Shaman. My ideal content would be raid-level challenge 5-man content. It doesn't need to drop good gear, just needs to stay fun after I've collected decent raid loot.

[@RealLazy00]

To add on to that idea. Have the bosses drop tickets that can be exchanged for rare mats like black lotus

[@Atacas]

I love how Alliance players cope about Horde having faster leveling but Alliance leveling literally puts you at 60 2-3 levels faster than Horde, as proven in every world first race.

[@Revenge_wow-ff5cm]

He’s not talking bout mage aoe farm or dungeon cleaving bro. A regular 1-60 is nothing like a speedrun.

[@plessis2023]

All we can do is wait and see what happens with WoW classic. Whatever happens not everyone will be pleased.

[@joshchristian5998]

For me I think they should take a queue from some other games and do variations on leveling on a single character. Create new content along the leveling paths and more, alternative areas to level in certain brackets (there's already different places to go) with each update to flesh out the world, and then let people sort of "legacy" their character, send them back to level 1 to redo leveling if they ever feel like it. I'm not sure on the details of this and obviously this shouldn't have power related to it (maybe basic cosmetic rewards or titles or something for sending your character back to level 1 and redoing leveling). It shouldn't be a mandatory thing, but I think a lot of people really enjoy leveling in Classic, myself included, and it would feel like a missed opportunity for Classic+ not to create some way to experience leveling with the character you've developed in some way. Basically a New Game Plus but for MMOs. The most important thing is this kind of... justifies developing new content for the leveling experience even as people level characters, and that encourages people to go back, meaning that you solve the "classic is empty because everyone is at endgame now" thing where leveling is a lot more fun with other people at similar levels but sometimes servers can empty out in lower levels as they grow old. Instead of eternally refreshing servers, creating content at all level brackets and encouraging people to experience it and reexperience the joys of leveling, offer them small rewards for achieving it. Also maybe achievements for classic+? I don't know if that would be considered too non-classic in feel by most people or not. I think it's a mostly harmless addition that could give people more horizontal progression to chase instead of the constant demand for more level cap.

[@patrikpetrak9249]

Maybe just idea for test, if 40 is too much and 20 too low. What about 30 player raids? Raids should in the end be about guild social events not only about gear. Also give us mount tab and pet tab. There is no point to collect things when there is no space to keep them.

[@Slava22222]

I was against new world expansion when original BC came out(outland). I envisioned WOW as tightly populated world where it forces players into world PvP(world interaction). With that being said, if Blizzard stick to classic world only, it will require either layering or redesigning the monsters numbers and respawn rates to accommodate everyone. I do agree that qualities of life changes should be taken from BC into Classic, I'd argue taking even some from WOTL, hunter dead zone for example. But the world should not be extended in my opinion. Also balance pvp is unavoidable for game long term survival. Maybe season of discovery is the right way to go after all, it's refreshing content that doesn't radically change classic.

[@april8it]

I have been a female casual player on the sidelines my whole life, cheering on my real life friends who raided & pvped. I love being on the pvp servers for the auction house. I love lore, surviving & preparing. I would like to see seasonal drops at low level needed for mats at high levels. Weave herbalism into tailoring, leather working, enchanting. Give us a reason to earn reputation with booty bay / rachet / etc., too . I would like for the undead & humans to have a long quest chain that could end in the undead becoming human or human becoming undead, complete with racial perks, while staying with the original faction. This would spice up pvp. A fun end game twist.

[@lloydmcallister8559]

A classic version of something like torghast would be cool, sorta like end game dungeons for gear slightly worse than raid gear.

[@Whiteliger1]

If they just expanded on the SOD phase 1 feel it would make classic+ one of the most popular games they have. Phase 2 was also pretty good but they just dropped the ball on phase 3 and beyond. Also make the raids 10,20 or 40 with the only difference being cosmetic. Most dad gamers are fine with less flashy gear so long as it functions the same.

[@Drago-gc5ej]

WillE, Thank you for posting this. I've wanted to see some vanilla content, but everything is plastered with OnLyFaNgZ DrAmA and I don't care to watch that.

[@TheBleachy]

I really hope that SoD was somewhat of a test for some class respec/balancing. It would be good to have some of the learnings from here such as melee hunter being viable and more tank options. Every spec needs to be viable. Doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced but at least potentially worthwhile to play. Outside of fixing broken/non viable specs and some gear changes, mostly it should just be about finishing the game. We know of so much that never finished or was never added. Let’s finish wow properly and then who knows after that!

[@atrozzorta9602]

This is what I don't understand about you Classic+ people. You claim Classic/ Vanilla is the best version of the game and #nochanges, then talk about Classic+ and how it will be the best thing since sliced bread because the direction they took WoW sucks, but they need to change 700 things first. So what you are saying is Classic isn't the best version and has a lot of issues, that got changed later on lol

[@phcydna]

Very nicely thought out Willie. Rightly so the devs are nervous of making too many changes for risk of losing the Classic appeal, your suggestions here are nicely on the side of being conservative and careful.

[@jeffsaffron5647]

Mostly agree... I would say that classes needs to pretty much remain as they are... yes some classes needs to be boosted, mostly druids and hunters, paladin/shaman tank should be a possibility at least. Dual speccing needs to be done better than it is now, probably at trainer and with some cooldown, if instant reset for gold still available ofc. Horizontal endgame content could be well... just to get consumables for raids more easily, its simple as that. Hybrid level dungeons with mechanics requiring one level 60, with rest of the group being 40 or 50 would also be interesting. 60 gets stuff for raiding, others get progression gear and xp, everybody wins and you keep mains engaged not raid logged.

[@JokerSyrup]

I remeber running out of quest on my human warrior at 58 in vanilla and grinding yetis to 60. I always thought it was because I was just a noob, Glad that it actually is a real thing with alliance.

[@georgigeorgiev4871]

If they have the same FOMO schedule for phases like anniversary, I'm not even bothering with Classic+

[@bisbrah]

best way to make classic + viable is to make it its own subscription so they owe us content instead of it just being seen as a happy content addition to retail

[@lyonsrobbie999]

Turtle WoW has nailed most of these features already, I wish Blizz would learn from it. Hell, even hire them or make it an official variant server.

[@mileslemon]

I would love to see more unique trinkets behind long questlines. The idea of carrying around a dozen or so trinkets with unique effects/abilities for different situations is peak fantasy imo. Skull of impending doom and diamond flask are great examples of trinkets that you acquire before even hitting 60 but are are still relevant all throughout endgame.

[@jannikerikson3280]

The main thing i feel sad you didn't mention is Arena and the pvp Aspect. As alot of Classic dueling and arena also for Tbc was Huge. Also Opens up for tournaments. I do feel the class balacing in TBC is so much more fun then classic. Allows for spellpower rogues so on. I do however think we should stay at 60. and remake tbc to be end game arenas for our 60's with new raids so on

[@beavis-fu8369]

they should add group wide buffs, but make them use reagents as a drawback.

[@alexrajkowski5280]

SHIPS! GIVE us ships, open up the seas baby. If anyone's ever played archage they'd know. Give us naval battles and trade packs. Open up world pvp. Get your guild to help you move packs across the world or go out and gank other guilds packs.

[@vir6487]

About the no-flying, I of course agree... but man, I kinda wish they would either add a few more flight points, or at the very least make them go 2x faster.

[@atrozzorta9602]

No no no you don't get it, this is the best version of the game. Flying for 30mins is soooooooooooooo fun!

[@vir6487]

@@atrozzorta9602 lol well to be fair, the flight times are officially now my "aight, toilet break, maybe go make coffee" so in a way it has worked out

[@atrozzorta9602]

@@vir6487 Yeah it absolutely works out sometimes, but there really isn't a reason for them to be that long, but people will defend EVERYTHING in Classic including having flights that can take ~30mins. All because "the jank is part of the charm"

[@EdmondsEditing]

I disagree with buffing the caster gear. I think it would be a better approach to buff int/spirit directly to the classes themselves and base the balancing on a class by class basis

[@maxg6040]

WOTLK Classes should be the templates to work from when it comes to Classic +. They benefit from both still being in the spirit of classic aswell as years if applied experience by much of the original developers.

[@snuffeldjuret]

5:34 I disagree with this so hard. Pre quest addons, sure, yes, but not now. questing is as important as grinding renown side quests in d4.

[@justinperry8445]

What they need to do is not have so many different versions of the game. After SoD ends keep Retail, Classic Cata (or MoP by then) and the new anniversary realms doesn't need to be 5 or 6 different versions splits the player base so much. Was better in Classic/TBC classic when it was just Retail or Classic both have big enough player bases to enjoy the game

[@SaltyGammon567]

Flying cannot happen, not only does it ruin the game, but its technically impossible, a lot of the old world doesn't even exist, there's a lot of flat textures that make it look like there's something there, half of Stormwind is just flat textures that make it look bigger than it is for example. Part of the reason why they revamped the world in Cata was so they could add flying.

[@Seithur33]

Speaking of which, I very recently (as in, the last few days) started a new character on the current Cataclysm servers. I'm a player who goes back to day 1, and when Cata came along I was very much in the anti-Cata camp. At the time, I hated what it did to the world physically and geographically (rip old Azshara, for example). However, on playing it again, now, in late 2024, I realized something: Cata is classic+, in many ways. Almost every class, if not every class, has multiple viable specs. There are so many QoL improvements. You've got a ton of content (altered classic, TBC, LK and Cata) to explore - either solo or as a group player - and it just plain looks better too. I acknowledge that flying everywhere takes something from the world - stipuated - but perhaps this is an example of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Believe me when I say this: I am amazed to see myself typing these words, but in many respects I've come to realize Cata is the classic+ I was looking for, or at least a significant step in that direction.

[@SaltyGammon567]

@@Seithur33 I'm a very old player too, I was happy that they added flying at the time but over the years it became clear that it was bad thing in my opinion. For me, Cata was the end of 'real' WoW, the story ended with Arthas in Wrath, Cata and beyond was unnecessary, they should have done a time skip and made a WoW 2 or something! I played SoD and it was great for a time, but in the end they made it too much like retail, classes are way too powerful now, and those incursions were just crap, world killing time sinks. I'm waiting for Classic+ before I come back to the game.

[@Snicks65]

If they did this they’d have my credit card info for the rest of my life

[@mattemattics5667]

The year is 2050. Blizzard Entertainment has been shut down 15 years after the final expansion of World of Warcraft’s lifetime. MMO’s are now a dying breed. A collection of KZbin videos release: “HERE’S WHY CLASSIC+ WILL BE AMAZING.”

[@PhonieSoprano]

With class rebalances we need to see definitive identity that was sort of lost in SoD that is obvious in vanilla

[@thehardcorecasual9444]

SOD is classic plus. I don t get this fetish of other classic plus. SOD is classic with better classes and better content and better itemization. Add more content after Nax and here you go.

[@krypto051]

but it will end some day, so its not truely Classic + . A consistent world, like retail was back in the day is the way. Start with classic, and move differently than retail did. If it has an end date, its not classic +

[@stiperic9891]

Personally, I'd like to see classic+ go in a direction of a parallel universe to that of the 2004 WoW. Leave the leveling content and quests mostly as they are but add new quests that slowly branch that new universe away from the original. If you want TBC and WoTKL then play anniversary WoW, classic+ should branch out into something new story vise.

[@Abrexfroman]

Sigh... I don't disagree with you WillE on most of these. But I'm not holding my breath. I do think classic+ is on it's way, but I'm not getting my hopes up. All of this is just so exhausting.

[@bolindow176]

Get rid of bots, gdkp's, worldbuffs, gold buying and addons. People who wants level cap raised to 200, no classes, new abilities, dynamic mob levels, player housing, pay to win, cash shops and what not have a huge private server scene to choose from.

[@Faulenski3]

After playing a lot of poe. More ways for the player to improve gear would be interesting. (At First maybe only for greys, greens and blues) and by improving i mean i can give items a meaningfull proc, but also stats and maybe new effects that could complement the playstyle i imagine. It would be a nice addition and why not go back to the roots blizzard and look for cool stuff from other games and mix it into our highly loved wow.

[@jotuls5579]

Yeah, they should give the Horde Death Knights and the Alliance Demon Hunters. There was clearly a Nelf pictured on the back of the orignal box meant to make people think they could be like Illidan. Not hero shit either just straight up Undead Death Knights and Nelf Demon Hunters. Thats easy fucking content.

[@mithrandirthegrey7644]

I’m actually really enjoying SOD now. Playing a shaman, a mage and a warrior. It’s super fun. It’s all I ever wanted. It’s classic wow with just that little extra that makes it fun.

[@moderategiantx3374]

I agree, its fun, but it's dead at this point. No one seems to be active in those servers. Shame really

[@WadeColwill]

@@moderategiantx3374lol. It’s poppin.

[@bohne8746]

SoD started very strong but it‘s dead now. It‘s just a season and according to the roadmap 2025 from blizzard no future updates after Spring 2025. But it‘s good that the season ends SoD had too many problems

[@elliothartwig]

@@bohne8746please walk into stormwind on crusader strike. That shit is more alive than era

[@mithrandirthegrey7644]

@@moderategiantx3374 ummm what are you talking about? I'm playing right this second and orgrimmar is absolutely packed. It's not as crowded in the lower levels but I was able to find a group for WC after about 15 mins of looking. It's nowhere near dead.

[@GustavoArantes17]

Bring racial updates as they are in Wrath to Vanilla and then tBC. Remove stun and silence resist mechanics (if spell pen is capped). Control/Remove bots, if that's possible.