Wrath Classic DPS Minmaxing Is (Somehow) Just As DEGEN As Vanilla Classic Was

[@WillEmmo]

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[@eply995]

As a warlock, put a campfire before every boss pull. Extra 4 spirit is roughly 2 spellpower. Lasts for 1 minute into the fight. Peak minmaxing.

[@Wyrmshield]

Dropping campfires for that sweet sweet 4 spirit is my favorite minmaxing lol

[@evanpinto]

I do the same as a resto drood. 4 spirit in tree form can go a super long way especially with multipliers on innervate.

[@evanpinto]

Sounds silly but it's like 40 extra spi for the inner which is silly but an actual chunk of mana back for an extra spell. Fires are leet pwn

[@yungsmorc6462]

@@evanpinto vate is flat 225% mana no unfortunately, no spirit interaction

[@evanpinto]

@@yungsmorc6462 I just be diggin homie. Old joke in a guild back in the day. Same with walrus fish pole best DMG cause more kitty power.

[@TheWarriorscat]

What was the most hilarious when I first heard about clam weaving was that it was totally believable simply because ferals doing feral things in classic with the trolls blood potions. If the pot spamming in classic was never discovered, i don't think clam weaving would have caught on as it did

[@kzpylj7729]

i thought that was a joke from the reddit post. that was legit?

[@Ownage1]

@@kzpylj7729 yes

[@ysf-psfx]

@@kzpylj7729 Yes, it was fake; alas, it was a good enough fake that people still think it's real.

[@dawuid1491]

@@kzpylj7729 Not sure which one you are refering to, but the trolls blood potions spamming were totally real.

[@Widowmakerdamien]

It was a troll that idiots got caught hook line and sinker

[@coachmcguirk6297]

What about swapping the different tailoring cloak enchants? We call that weave-weaving.

[@Heartykek]

underrate comment

[@ordelian7795]

In french they call it Oui-Ouing

[@MrAntAve]

Same as swapping pants enchants. We call that pant-weaving.

[@kyotheman69]

oh geez

[@clamweaver]

Hah, love it. Thanks for touching on my clamweaving shitpost. That whole ride was too much fun. Myself (Mori/Ayylmao) and Tresdina (Tenoch/Diego) were on the Countdown to Classic podcast talking about it 5-6 weeks ago. Was a bunch of fun. Go give it a listen :)

[@TheAngelRaven]

It doesn't surprise me how degenerate min-maxing can get. The problem is when you are chastised for NOT doing this.

[@yooginava1828]

Huge reason I cant play classic. Obviously it was never intended to be the same experience.. But thats just it. Its not the same. Everyone rushes to get min maxed and if you fall behind then you're screwed.

[@Deathrizes]

It’s why I quit classic, players ruined the game and devs play into because degenerates love it.

[@AllTheHurt]

@@yooginava1828 You can't play classic because some autistic people feel the need to min max dumb shit even though it's not necessary because the content is so easy?

[@andromidius]

You don't have to do it, if anyone says you do just don't group with them. There's plenty of casual and semi-hardcore guilds out there that don't put pressure on its raiders to minmax.

[@PeterFlash]

Most annoying part about classic is toxic casuals who are making shit up trying to denounce people who want to get the most out of their class. No one cares if you min max or not. People do however care if you leech your way into groups where you clearly don't belong and expect to be carried. Stick to likeminded people and enjoy the game instead of fabricating lies to protect your fragile ego.

[@Conradlovesjoy]

The irony here is that talent trees ultimately went away due to a lack of choice…. Turns out it was just a lack of imagination.

[@t2d748]

I dont play warrior so my comment is in no way biased but I find it pretty sad how warriors figured out something pretty clever like old enchants proc their deep wounds and blizzard were so quick to shit on it while rogues can play with old gear and do 10's of thousands of dps on trash and cleave bosses and they deem it absolutely fine. We have rogues bursting 40k+ dps on Faerlina, Anub and every trash pack in naxx, Warrs maybe get an extra proc on deep wounds and blizzard acting so fast to nerf it when they literally slow af on every other aspect of classic is such a meme

[@tableslam]

Idk what you mean bro, my Albino Snake (Jessica) is just here for a good time, living his life, experiencing things he'd never get to see otherwise. I don't see what the big deal is

[@Talasonx]

He actually missed the druid one where we switch all our gear to spellpower gear, dual spec into boomkin, summon treants prepull, then swap all our gear back to feral, innervate ourself, gift of the wild to proc omen, pre pot haste, and then finally go in.

[@branthall1787]

I'm a feral player and I'm all for bear/idol weaving but the day i'm caught doing all that is the day i want someone to take me out back and shoot me

[@evoknz]

@@branthall1787 Just gave up my feral for this, efforts are way too high for the DPS provided, I need to be a legit scientist to play feral properly to still be middle of the pack, while assa rogue could press right click and almost out dps me

[@ArseniusRubric]

i was KEK weaving during this video the entire time , this is just hilarious

[@cyrusadamrevilla3851]

I was so happy when the degens in the warrior discord discovered fire warrior, because it meant I didn't have to spend 1.9k gold on berserking enchant everytime I got a new weapon. I was so sad when Blizzard nerfed it 24 hours later 😭

[@bisalissy3846]

I thought "Fire Warrior sounds brilliant, but I know Clamweaving was a thing so it's not real" xD I actually thought Clamweaving worked - also because I sold a good amount of Jaggal Clams for 5g when i heared about it xD Also: "Hey, Warrior's got a weird tec that allows them to do as much damage as a Frost Mage! NERF THIS NOW!" Meanwhile Classic Ferals "Let's farm some more Gnomeregan!"

[@randyjoe8385]

Meanwhile rogues breaking 40k AoE DPS with a broken Felstriker interaction and that's all fine and dandy

[@csquared4538]

It's very hard to find a guild that is competent, that has leadership that keeps things moving, tanks who know what to do, and players who can handle the mechanics, yet isn't also obsessed with parses and WCL.

[@Valvad0ss]

Lmao u are looking for a unicorn. We are all people after all and tbh liking parsing and doing the mechanics aren’t mutually exclusive. You can do both and lean on mechanics more during progression. I do it and several of my guildies do and we have the environment you are describing. I’d say stop selling your expectations of people so short you are doing this to yourself

[@csquared4538]

@@Valvad0ss I just don't like studying. Im fine with parsing, in so far as it's figuring out how to do your class's rotation properly. But I don't want to look at what other people are doing on WCL or strategize how to do more damage when I'm not in raid. It's exhausting. I'm sure it's out there though. I honestly was losing interest in pve in general so I decided not to raid, but the guild I'm in ended up being a super sweaty parsing type guild.

[@randyjoe8385]

@@csquared4538 That's how those guilds get there though, doing those things is what makes them competent. The incompetent raiders are so because they're only concerned with raiding for the 2 hrs every week they are actually in a raid, so it's not particularly thought-out and all made up on the spot. You can't do it without studying cause there's no practice. Every raid you show up is showtime so unless you make more chars of the same spec for multiple lockouts, you don't have practice games you only have the real deal. So you gotta practice between games, or study, to get better. You're essentially a guy on the soccer team who insist on only playing actual ranked games and never doing practice or strategy. You do you but I wouldn't expect to find a guild that works like that, people either accept they have to practice and study to be good or accept being mediocre.

[@callingyourphone1212]

@@csquared4538 if you are spending more than 10 minutes remembering a rotation this game is probably too hard for your skill level..

[@WarbossFraka]

Because good players care about parses and WCLs, its kinda the point of the game at this point.

[@Notpoop906]

You know what? I think all the weird shifting tricks with druid actually fit the class fantasy BETTER than the intended design from Blizzard. I always thought it was stupid how the coolest part of druids (shapeshifting) isn't supposed to be used in combat :/

[@deletedTestimony]

Preach, if anything I want more shapeshifting

[@beyOndzZz]

Its very important and common in pvp tho. So pve =/= the whole game my man.

[@-Believeinyourself-]

@@beyOndzZz was going to say in pvp you are literally shapeshifting all the time. Break roots, break slows, death grips, switching between cheetah and main form (trees ftw)

[@andraskurucz839]

@@beyOndzZz Pve is most of the game, considering only a small percentage of the community plays pvp actively and it really doesnt offer any sense of progression or rewards. And it's shit in retail.

[@doncorleone1720]

@@andraskurucz839 it does reward you lmao. Pvp needs so much More skill ans Game knowledge than Any hc raid in wotlk

[@Windowlick_]

I think a big part of this phenomenon is the fact that we're on last patch balancing with early patch gear. I'm interested to see how much the ilvl shift for ulduar hard mode items changes different classes' bis lists. If Valanyr is buffed, could we see holy paladins get even more powerful? Will some buffed trinket give you so much of a stat that it pushes some class over a breakpoint into absurd territory?

[@brandonkruse6412]

The legendary weapon won’t be buffed. It’s a buff to all of the items on the hard-mode loot tables.

[@Livingvapour]

@@brandonkruse6412 I thought all items were getting +6 and hard mode was getting +13 or 19? I don’t remember. Guess I’ll have to go double check.

[@brandonkruse6412]

@@Livingvapour Oh, maybe it will then. Hard to say because they’ve only discussed buffing loot tables. Personally, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The mace getting an item level boost would be overkill imo, but still gets replaced with Lich King weapons anyways.

[@Valvad0ss]

@@brandonkruse6412 sure they discussed loot tables they also said they are discussing valanyr. If you don’t remember on this final patch in the OG wrath cycle they had to buff valanyr before. They will have to buff it again to keep it in line with then boosted ilvls. It’s a legendary that takes 30 shards. It’ll be buffed I just think they are trying to avoid over buffing it

[@DeisFortuna]

It would be hilarious if Val'anyr got buffed... In a way that somehow makes it BiS on a DPS or Tank. I don't mean like, "It's technically BiS for Shadow Priest, or Enhancement/Elemental Shaman, or Boomkin, or Ret/Prot Pally", I mean "they accidentally buffed it a bit in a way that makes Rogues, Warriors, and/or Death Knight want it." Would this be nerfed and/or reverted to the OG almost instantly? Oh fuck yes. I just think it would be hilarious. (I will admit that if it *does* actually become BiS on a DPS, it'll *probably* be on someone who can heal, like, at all...)

[@dawuid1491]

Me who was a feral druid but stopped playing WoW during BC and knows how ridiculously fun it is to do some of the stuff as feral just can't stop laughing from all these "new" feral shinanigans that are somehow unsurprising to hear lol.

[@Brainth_1780]

Considering that feral has ALWAYS had that reputation of working twice as hard as anyone else for the same DPS, I find it hilarious how Classic has only reinforced that sentiment with the most impressive and ridiculous minmaxing to ever take place in the game. Kind of makes me want to play Feral, seems fun

[@evoknz]

@@Brainth_1780 To be frank, depends. I was playing feral until a few days ago, 4k3 GS, virtually fully BiS, and it still sucks. The rotation with bearweave in itself feels extremely fun, and even smooth, however the fact that you can take agro from the tanks constantly, the fact that you're still middle of the pack in DPS while needing an astrophysicist degree to do the rotation properly.. Pain If you're into performance, being "the best", top parses etc, if you're not a god tier player, it'll be hard And then you have assa rogues who press two buttons and can't be out dpsed in single target.

[@jacobeden2083]

At 3:43, I know WillE is saying "GCD" but with his particular accent I can't hear anything but "reset your juicy D" and it threw me off way too hard.

[@Shaderox]

It probably didn't make it into the classic version... but this still reminded me of back in actual wotlk when people were running around with a grey 2 handed sword, don't think it was useful for end-game, but for levelling it was broken because it could be used by low-lvl characters but had the dps numbers of a high lvl weapon. It lasted for quite a while but the sword eventually got a level requirement to stop the abuse.

[@Livingvapour]

Yea it had item level 200 blue dps with no stats and could be equipped at level 1. Made for some silly times for anyone who could use two hand swords.

[@DeisFortuna]

@@Livingvapour it apparently could also take WotLK enchants, so...

[@Livingvapour]

@@DeisFortuna everything could get enchants there was no level requirement back then. you could only enchant BoE items though as the person holding the item had to be lv 35 or 60+ for tbc and wrath enchants. so BoAs had shoulder enchants from wintergrasp and weapons had mongoose or zerking but most used crusader because of the heal proc anyway. i remember commonly seeing lv 19 twinks with over 4000 hp before they made it so enchants required the character level to match the enchant it was a weird time. rogues with 100% dodge passively for lv 10 twinks in tbc using the leg enchant and other agi enchants was crazy.

[@green959]

The best part was that arms warrior rend damage scaled with the weapon too, so people were one shotting everyone in lvl19 bgs with it with rend ticks xD

[@mynamewastakin]

OH YEAH Enti's Quenched Blade! Thing was massive for a level 19, lol. I think it had 180 damage on the top end. Would absolutely put anything hit by it into the ground.

[@acheronnchase6220]

Missing finding new tech with DKs like every other day from them min-maxing beautiful mind gentlemen lol

[@CunningLingu1st]

People would religiously take shots of their own grundle grease if it gave them a 0.1% DPS increase.

[@Chopstorm.]

Funny thing about the fire warrior change was how quickly they fixed that, but Taste for Blood was bugged _for months_ and Blizzard didn't care. So basically if the bug boosts warrior dps, expect it to be fixed. If it harms your dps, learn to live with it.

[@stinger15au]

Ignite munching for mages has been a thing for 13 years.......was never fixed lol. Still isnt.

[@Riskyfortabisky]

@@stinger15au The difference is it doesnt fucking bust the class

[@petejones6827]

@@Riskyfortabisky then why is rogue and dk left alone?

[@jointser1008]

@@petejones6827 i'm really enjoying the AOE build as rog now i'm strong at AOE and singletarget. the only weakness are smaller trash groups

[@zZSleepytimeZz]

@@stinger15au fun part about ignite munching, mages dont usually crit every single second of a fight for an extended period of time, so while it hurts sometimes, the damage is stored and still hits the next second you dont crit, so while it can hurt in wrath, it usually isnt a large thing. Warriors will have closer to 70-80% crit in ICC and might actually be critting so much the same exact thing as ignite munching is happening for deep wounds and could cost you almost a full fight worth of damage if you dont stop attacking. (Deep wounds should be doing about 15% of your damage at that point if sims are correct, so a very large amount)

[@mikkel9840]

Probably worth mentioning that a big part of the reason rogues are so strong against large AoE pulls is that each individual Instant Poison is not AoE capped. Just like Blizzard and Seed, Fan of Knives' physical damage is AoE capped but it doesn't really matter because poisons do their thing anyway.

[@UserName-ei7dk]

You missed rogues also using Stormshroud a lvl 60 set LWers can make with a 3p bonus that has a chance on hit to gain 30 energy. If you dont have AR up or are saving it for boss damage this is the next best thing for AOE packs. Also good if its a smaller scale pull.

[@acepalomino4718]

Some logs are showing 2p t6 as well on rogues for some fights. The haste buff from slice n dice is still insane

[@UserName-ei7dk]

@@acepalomino4718 Yeah im still using 2p T6, but thats just optimal till you have two naxx25 pieces to replace them at the same time.

[@acepalomino4718]

@@UserName-ei7dk would you say rogues are difficult to learn? I play rogue on retail for pvp, but i main fury warr on both classic and retail for pve. Wanna branch out and im not a caster type of player. Also dont wanna spend forever trying to learn a whole new class

[@drafman1]

@@acepalomino4718 rogues can be difficult to master but not hard to learn. also assassination is pretty easy which is the meta build for rogues right now. give it a go

[@doncorleone1720]

@@acepalomino4718 top Rouges still doing that wdym?

[@deathnotehell1]

Is it weird that listening to this got me playing Druid. I've wanted to get back into WoW classic with Wrath out but I keep dropping classes and I liked playing Druid a while back but I was balance and it was meh so Bearweaving sounds fun weirdly enough. Something to do during downtime instead of chugging mana non-stop.

[@NoFutureForG0uda]

bearweaving is great, its just doing stuff instead of not doing stuff, and honestly, i did a bit of it while leveling naturally and i think most ppl thought aobut it by themselves, its super healthy gameplay

[@Evan-mt7bc]

Here's your pro Balance Druid tip. Take Moonfire, all related glyphs and all related talents out of your build and rotation. It is way too many mana intensive to use currently in tier 7 and doesn't do nearly enough damage to compensate for it. You only use Moonfire during high movement situations such as Heigan, you can take Moonfire off your bars in raids and dungeons outside of most fights honestly. You now have enough mana sustain to survive the longest fights and save your Innervate for healers and Arcane mages and your potion cooldown for Haste potions to pump harder during Lunar Eclipse.

[@whimsicalcellbooster]

Vanilla? You mean classic? Vanilla ppl were just normal people who played wow and don’t went bonkers because gearscore, bis and gdkp bullshit.

[@nizo2195]

But we still have rogues out here doing OBSCENE amounts of dps on trash. Blizz really picks and chooses who to patch

[@rottingcorpse6565]

The amount of degen tryharding so far in wrath classic has been really off-putting tbh. Like tier 7 is the easiest shit in the whole history of wow let's all just chill out a bit.

[@purplepanda8805]

You could do all this nonsense as a cat druid, or you could be a rogue, press two buttons and still do more dps

[@Bartooc]

until Ulduar comes out

[@DeisFortuna]

Okay, but... Consider the following: The people doing all the bullshit are *probably* the type of people who enjoy figuring out how to squeeze every last bit out of their class more than actually, like, topping the DPS meters.

[@Donkens]

WillE still on about how classic was bad even though classic content pretty much made his carrier, same goes for asmongold

[@samson3026]

Min/max is for people that live thier lives in WoW as pixels. The same type of people that will committ suicide if the internet was destroyed.

[@liaevans4483]

Rest in peace fire warrior, you will be missed.

[@stefanostsenof9959]

if fiery weapon is degen then what is rogue with spellblade.And they ignored the spellblade rogue.But they nerfed an already struggling class

[@booradley6832]

I mean, bad names by the community are a long standing tradition. At least weaving doesnt sound stupid- you weave the described skill or item in between a normal rotation. Dps are now called "pumpers" and the only time that should ever be used is talking about an Amish person using a well or in gay porn. Tanks are now powerbottoms, hybrid classes switch tops and dot classes are poz tops.

[@archimedesbird3439]

Twinks

[@gordo6908]

went full weimar

[@MrTheTuxedo]

Back in the original run of Wrath, us Enhancement Shaman were sort of doing the "Spellhancement", although we didn't really have a name for it. But back then, spellpower weapons weren't always locked to mainhand with poor weapon damage like they are now, so every Enhancement Shaman was rocking two spellpower weapons with full weapon damage. Didn't last too long, I think it was nerfed before Ulduar, and to this day spellpower weapons are almost always locked to main hand and have low weapon damage.

[@alfavhunter7010]

Oh good, no snowball Info yet, I can keep using them.

[@runeserpent1449]

wish fire elemental would get the cooldown reset ;^;

[@quakergrits4610]

you see how fast they did that? but yet all the bugs, and bots are still in game.

[@bradvanbakel5781]

straight away you could tell clam weaving wouldnt be real, DKs would be running out of runes and runic power way to fast to be casting that many abilities

[@Croshiuz]

Fiery weapon was 400 more dps than berserking in full ICC BiS for warriors and got fixed in 24h. Felstriker still working at 80 and is apparently completely fine for rogues.

[@Crey_Rob]

preach!

[@mugiwara7945]

Felstriker is only aoe and aint a bug

[@Croshiuz]

@@mugiwara7945 Deep wounds wasn't bugged either. It was in original wotlk. Using fiery weapon and lvl 50 gloves wasn't intended which is why they nerfed it. The situation is for sure the same with Felstriker.

[@Brainbread]

Not enough arms prot warriors using Felstriker -_-

[@Sarthetv]

Unholy DK For the win! Lot's more cheeky strats coming out weekly! love it WillE

[@Fleato]

as soon as you said " fire warrior" i knew which one it was lol, but you know, rogues still doing their fan of knives thing with cast weapon and those low level blues. blizz oaky with that, but nerf warrior.

[@jeagerpoelse]

very recent thing for sv hunters, it was discovered that assuming 2 lock and load procs per minute, its around 100 dps increase to use a r4 explosive shot into a r3 and a rank 4 again during lock and load, instead of ES->filler->ES, due to different ranks not overwriting eachother. theres already an idiotproof castsequence macro lol

[@Vararx]

Same with flames trike 8 and 9 on fire mage Aoe, suddenly there's two dots.

[@brandoncastellano1858]

No way! That’s cool af. I’m doing that tonight.

[@WarbossFraka]

Enh shamans use rank 9 and rank 10 flametongue on the mainhand and off hand. If we didn't we'd lose half our flame tongue damage because only one of the same rank can proc at once.

[@MrXxsleeprxx]

some people like to minmax, it separates the good from the great

[@igortoniato]

I bet ferals are looking for some ways to use wolfshead and farm pummelers again

[@xDarkstar89]

As always a great video! Keep up the great content 👍

[@00110000]

5 out of 5 zackrawrr chatters approve of this video

[@MrRobschnieder]

Yeah warriors finally find a new way to boost their already bottom tier dps up 10-15% and blizzard nerfs its within 24hr but took months to fix Taste for Blood and Slam and STILL havent fixed Shattering throw reseting your AA and losing your first AA after the reset. Blizzard just really wants to hold us down in phase 1 =(

[@JarrodShadowsonng]

Let them try. Let them laugh. With buffed Ulduar items we'll be laughing at them soon enough.

[@reuterss306]

Feral says hello. Shifting to bear, keeping 5 stacks of lacerate and mangle up while not overlapping on cat energy or wasting tf uptime, swapping weapon to optimize swing timer, swapping idols to get either rip or shred buffed, buffing 25 raids with motw for omen procs, while playing the normal cat dps priority not even taking ALL of the potential dos minmaxing into account with this....its nuts. :D

[@krippaxxuseredarlordofthes9940]

You also do this in pvp?

[@neutraltwin77]

It's funny to see so many people cry about min/max when it's hardly an issue. I've been around multiple different guilds (semi-hardcore to casual, no super tryhard guilds cuz that's not for me) but in each of the guilds they all shared pretty much the same foundation. That foundation was 1. Do you understand you class. And 2. Are you willing and accepting of information to help you improve (if you need/want it). Never have to deal with a guild seeing if I was doing the offmeta starts to try and min/max but they do care about your logs (which is absolutely fine) having good logs means multiple different things.

[@asb2s]

X "weaving" has been a thing for a long, long time

[@Eremitjaevel]

The amount of sweat is not...astonishing!

[@gentrelane]

Lol. Glyph of clam stacking bis

[@AnotherDaywithGeorge]

We can't have Warriors doing 40 more DPS. Kick them while they down. KekW

[@PeterFlash]

Fury's are gonna pop off with the buffed Ulduar gear, just wait.

[@LeCharles07]

Snake weaving sounds like something else. 😳

[@Osanve]

there is even a weakaura for enhancement shamans to autosummon albino snake when your weapons are not synched

[@Jhamantheshaman]

This was a great video. Thanks!

[@Tuskor130]

I can't tell if Feral Druids are hard huffing copium or if they're just built different.

[@DeisFortuna]

They've snorted so much copium that they've mutated and are now built different.

[@hamm8934]

Wait until cata and they remove power shifting. The copium will finally hit them and they’ll rerole

[@DeisFortuna]

@@hamm8934 they already don't powershift, AFAIK.

[@hamm8934]

@@DeisFortuna in pvp they should to break roots, this was removed in 4.2 and added back in in mop

[@BURRDAWG_]

@@hamm8934 powershifting was removed in prepatch

[@ashrasmun1]

Holy shit, you got me there. I definitely thought clam weaving is a thing as you said it was discovered during prepatch, and I thought to myself "Ha! Rookie mistake, you slipped crucial info here Mr. KZbinr!", but that only shows how gullible I am 😂 Love the content, as always!

[@eduardkaseberg1378]

I am gonna try Idol weaving in our weekly naxx 25 tomorrow in combination with bear weaving 😌😏

[@zulfanbakri7640]

Bear weaving tho has one downside, the threat is not acknowledged in the threat meter, so if you are bearweaving understand that the threat is not right and all of sudden aggro and dead. Happened to our bear on patchwork while going for no-deaths and was the only death that night.

[@igortoniato]

​@@zulfanbakri7640 exactly, the amount of threat you generate with the lacerate ticks are huge. I'm the MT of my guild and I struggle a lot with the feral bear weaving

[@doncorleone1720]

Idk in which wotlk world u live where Tanks can loose aggro

[@Bartooc]

@@zulfanbakri7640 Your tank is just bad.

[@zulfanbakri7640]

@@Bartooc its the hateful soaking 3rd tank that died which started a chain reaction.

[@lep897]

Ferals/shaman are respeccing boomkin/enhancement summoning treants/wolves and then respeccing back to feral/resto/elemental on pull.

[@FuuuckOffff]

Yeah, was surprised not see treeshifting here as well.

[@Valvad0ss]

No shot a resto is doing this lmao 😂

[@Leopoldshark]

I hear that if you swap between two WillE minmaxing videos every 15 seconds, you can skip ads and optimize your viewing time. I call it Willweaving.

[@facehugger8995]

why are people so sweaty in a game that is so easy you can do 25 man content with half that many people haha

[@mikaelboileau9853]

Thats exactly why people are sweating it ,theres no challenge so they compete on max dmg/speed

[@xe2014]

This is what happens with every game that people continue to play for years and is easy. Challenges become the normal method of gameplay. When the Contant is a joke all you have to do to improve his DPS

[@andromidius]

Speed running. Also getting in practice for when the content gets harder. Ulduar is going to kick a lot of complacent players in the teeth.

[@jointser1008]

@@andromidius Ulduar is nothing compared to retail mythic raids tho

[@vaels5682]

Interestingly, even if clamweaving did work, it would not be a dps increase since you would quickly run out of runes. Would only really be useful in pvp for burst IF it did work

[@andromidius]

Notice how nearly all the degenerate min maxing comes from Vanilla items? Blizzard clearly realised the problem they'd created way back when designing TBC - but never thought "hey, maybe we should... fix what's already in the game?" But honestly, glad they didn't - there's some truly hilarious item interactions that can be done.

[@whippingstar]

Best takes on the internet.

[@austinwilburn1772]

I was around during BC and there was some weird builds. The absolutely strangest was the Spell dmg Rogue. There is a playlist on KZbin that is all about unknown specs.

[@BuzzzdLightyear]

Thankfully I play with a guild that does not give a fuck about min-maxing.

[@doncorleone1720]

So you raid naxx for 5hrs!

[@BuzzzdLightyear]

@@doncorleone1720 nah only 3. But even if we did take 5 hours, its about having fun with others and overcoming a challenge at your own pace. Nobody outside of the sweatiest neckbeards cares about how fast you can clear Naxx in a 14 year old video game.

[@stevenbrooks7293]

Spellsteal buffs in the open world, get summoned to boss, doesn't fall off because boss falls over in more than 2 minutes so warcraft logs can't see it, profit

[@sdplasma3914]

dw unholy was always meta(but only in deep gear) with the pack of dks i ran with, scourge strike didnt become meta till cata. iirc, there was a change to death coil that happened after launch of cata and that fully killed dw unholy.

[@john-fi2ni]

The thing that gets me with the warrior nerf was that even with the fire damage interaction they were still pretty low on the meters

[@Crey_Rob]

Especially when you compare spell power poison builds on rogues where they hit 20k dps. Pales in comparison to a few hundred more dps from the firewarrrior

[@doncorleone1720]

Can you just wait for icc? Thx

[@Crey_Rob]

@@doncorleone1720 Recent Sims have warriors 3rd/4th dps on Single target in ICC bis (legendary excluded). It's a worthwile discussion because what made Blizzard take a hard stance on firewarrior was certainly the right decision, but it's being applied haphazardly. If you don't want low level items/enchants being used to gain the system for mechanics unintended, then having rogues using them to gain gigantic benifits CURRENTLY is just dumb. They use the rod from TK (currently v hard to get without massive help in dead content), spell power weapons with unintended results of slow attack speeds and daggers from UBRS for crits, alongside that old dungeon set bonus. They're absolutely one to one comparable, with firewarrior doing 100-200 more dps and rogues clipping into 20-30k dps.....

[@ZevixyGaming]

@@Crey_Rob poisons scale with AP in wrath, SP doesn't do anything for poisons afaik

[@Murks33]

@@Crey_Rob They use titansteel spellblade because it's a 2.5 speed dagger, therefore having a high chance to proc poisons on top of also being a dagger so it benefits from FoK's bonus damage with daggers. The spell power does nothing. edit: Hell, this is covered in the video even. Calling it a "spell power poison" build is just nonsensical.

[@numberline8063]

There is not only meta weaving for casters to regain Mana, there is also meta weaving for unholy DKs. You want to start the fight with the ark speed proc meta gem and after you summoned your gargoyle you want to replace that meta for the 3% crit DMG meta gem.

[@marcolaudani2851]

i fail to see how that is even a possibility, cant change headpiece in combat so ....?

[@numberline8063]

@@marcolaudani2851 did you even watch the video? Yes. You can not change headpiece midcombat, BUT you CAN swap your meta gem midcombat...

[@General12th]

Hi Will!

[@strikeofmortals6899]

Northrend smells sweaty

[@tebetebebebe6369]

The weirdest thing about so called "minmaxing" that it is not "minmaxing" it is just "maximizing"

[@Wyrmshield]

In most cases you're minimizing your gold/time/sanity to max your damage so it still fits xD

[@tebetebebebe6369]

@@Wyrmshield Minmax is math term (from game theory), and it has completely different meaning

[@Khunark]

@@tebetebebebe6369 It's not different. These are all niche uses of the class. Don't come here and give us that.

[@tebetebebebe6369]

@@Khunark mb u should get some math courses about it or at least read some articles Maximizing DPS in WoW have nothing equal with minmax in game theory

[@Absogotdanglutely]

I remember in Legion when you did more damage for each pet, so you were popping crazy toys and having companion pets out.

[@Antholography]

The Warrior nerf was stupid. They’re bottom tier DPS. Fireweaving added IIRC like 250 DPS. They could have gotten ~3k DPS and still been NOWHERE near the top. Dumb and unwarranted.

[@wavygallagher]

godamnit i just told my discord people were opening clams to get rid of the gcd. thanks

[@Teslamuffin]

The moment I realized that no matter how much effort I put in, no matter how perfectly I play my character, the game can just arbitrarily decide that I lose performance - is the moment I stopped caring about being competitive. The game is too random. Didn’t crit as much this pull? Oops, sorry. Playing melee and you had a string of autos miss? GG. Boss decides you’re doing the mechanic every single time? Sorry about your luck. Your talent didn’t proc when it needed to? Ouch.

[@PvtSparkle]

This is exactly why i lost interest in Wow classic. In the past you equip your items, you learn the tactics and you go together on a raid and if successful all are happy. Now you have this stupid rank lists... And if you don't min-max or missed a global buff, you have some show-offs posing... my damage bar is greater than your. I really hated that. This rank lists and best-in-slot-lists made a competition out of a group game.

[@DeisFortuna]

I just recently got into classic after a half hearted attempt when Vanilla Classic came out and... I encountered a hella salty Troll player. I think they were a shaman, but I forget exactly. Any time they and someone else rolled Need on a piece of gear and they lost, they got saltier and saltier, claiming that the other person "didn't need it", (at least when the Hunter got it), including some green pants that dropped that boosted Shadow Damage. I won those pants. I'm a warlock. I spend a lot of time spamming Shadow Bolt. Corruption also deals Shadow damage. And somehow the guy who can't cast shadow spells needs the shadow damage pants more than the chick spamming Shadow Bolt. This was in Shadowfang Keep and I feel like that guy's reputation is gonna be in the dumpster by the time he dings 80.

[@ShadowAimai]

Holy priest smite/flash heal spam in BC. Priests got a free smite/flash heal every time they crit. However, they didn't limit how often this could proc. So you had, for one glorious week, priests demolishing every other class on PVP.

[@Laf-Adventures]

Weaving isn't some catchall min max term. It means adding something weird into your normal rotation, IE. Weaving in clams. The firey warrior wasnt called fire weaving, or deep wounds weaving. See the difference? Hunters trap weave, or melee weave in tbc. Druids bear weave during cat rotation. DK clam weaving would be using clam during your normal rotation.

[@ASNS117Zero]

I don't understand the need for it. Like, wrath ain't that hard. I've been leveling a shaman since the start of wrath classic, but I don't have the time to play as much as I did when I was younger because full time job plus overtime, so it's taken me quite a bit longer to get to max level, and it just floors me how many people are caught up in optimizing to the degree that they'll pick their professions purely around getting a slight DPS increase. I have LK kills from the tank, melee dps, and healer perspective, and I never once felt that any of the content was SO difficult that I had to resort to those kind of gimmicks to squeak by. From my experience, it just came down more to getting the raid group to stay crisp in execution and hoping the lag wasn't bad that day.

[@CaptPip]

Oh boy time to see why my parse isn't orange..

[@DaLiJeIOvoImeZauzeto]

I've been maining a druid in vanilla-wotlk setting since 2005 and it's precisely all that feral-weaving powershifting nonsense that's keeping me away from enjoying feral, too much hassle for my taste and too heavy on both the fingers and the eardrums.

[@MrBasmannen]

Clam weaving didn't invent or popularize the term weaving. Lightning bolt- and bear weaving were both established terms before the clam weaving post.

[@LordOfCrabz]

Ah yes - My clam weaving fire snake weaver idol swapping flower shifting helm slurping weapon swapping meta gem glitching warrior who was notorious for his fan of knives raid clear spam based on poison and slow daggers and maces that crit from focused attack with spell hance along with gargoyle snapshotting. The old reliable.

[@zombie676]

when a player realise that his top dps in group he gets excited and think his "unstoppable and powerfull" so he start pulling mobs and everything and me as a tank I quit the group every time and at the end I quit wow forever last week after 2 months PS:I'm a returned to wotlk bye kids

[@Pumkin932]

The competition to be the "best" in a game that's over a decade old and was only brought back so you could relive it as it was- it's gone too far. Maybe take a break, go outside, and use these talents for something... more productive.

[@OWnIshiiTrolling]

All this just to faceroll the easiest tier in one of the easiest expacks. It's funny once, but then you get wannabe pros who want to use every fancy trick even though they don't know the basics, and they end up holding your raid back.

[@spiral5692]

Don't believe the clamweave denialists. Propaganda is trying to clamp down and keep the players ignorant

[@iRicowin]

As a rogue, I'm sick of the fact warriors share something like 10 BiS slots with me. Bliz so useless their plate class doesn't even wear plate.

[@sparkanders]

Can I source video from the feral dps(Gravemindx) on grobbulus please?

[@mrfathed3129]

Yeah, I'm just too old for this shit. 13 years ago, when I was a nerd on EJ this would have been fun. But it all seems too degenerate to me anymore.

[@tempestindustries9446]

You can't stop the clamweavers 😂 i will open a clam every ability and you can't stop me!!!

[@SpaseAbuser]

Minmaxing makes the game ridiculous. 🤓

[@TehBananaBread]

This is what you get when you have a release a small niche group of 30 year old neckbears that get paid to play the game now in a 15 year old game. Glorious

[@fomoyolo4466]

Wouldn't most of this stuff probably still work on LK private servers? Must be wild over there now lol

[@travelinlight1141]

I am always amazed by the insane degenerate nerd nature of gamers xD Someone sat there and figured out opening containers resets GCD on abilities. Unreal.