William E. Rees: "The Fundamental Issue - Overshoot" | The Great Simplification #53

[@itsureishotout-itshotterin3985]

Mr Rees is perhaps the best explainer of our dilemma. Excellent conversation. I’m thoroughly depressed.

[@alandoane9168]

I hope Nate channels his own being "bummed out," as he says, into a more realistic view of things going forward.

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

You're comment made me laugh ... At least we can share a laugh at the nature of our situation. 🥰

[@itsureishotout-itshotterin3985]

Wiley E Coyote was always funny to me!

[@j.rivermartin3412]

Depression is okay, but not a good place to get stuck! I recommend grieving as a cure. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5KsXmeZbpeAp9E Over recent years I have probably literally shed buckets of tears, and likely before I pass into oblivion I'll cry a lot more. But now, at least, I know my tears are beautiful, natural and nourishing to all of life.

[@EvolutionWendy]

Que Sera Sera. Decided to "retire" and live supporting the living plants and animals around me. No longer persuading people to please be rational. Marvel ecosystem we barely knew before we fucked it up.

[@deirdreryan6253]

I can’t recall anyone else expressing earths predicament with such clarity and honesty. Thanks for this conversation

[@Peace2051]

He's an "International Treasure" (to borrow a concept from the Japanese who recognize their "national treasures").

[@dabrupro]

Yes. And depth.

[@cedarmountain1525]

Dr. Jem Bendell also speaks in these ways. Amazingly so. Here's a 15 minute clip that could knock your socks off. kzbin.info/www/bejne/enK9e6d8j7-Mo68

[@Peace2051]

@@cedarmountain1525 Thank you! That was great. You might be interested in the psychology of dealing with collapse with Michael Dowd's Sanity 101 (he believes it's his best video out there): kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5anlKWbi65_iqc

[@cedarmountain1525]

@@Peace2051 Yes, thank you. I have watched several of his videos!

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Bill seems MUCH younger than 80! Fantastic condition for an 80 year old. Bill dosen't show any signs of congnitive decline. Very inspiring!

[@kayakerpaddler2023]

After a 30+ year career in a state agency fighting for ecological preservation, I’ve been very angry and despairing for years. This presentation has given me the first real peace I’ve felt in a long time. Thank you. I love the way Professor Rees’ whole body lights up when he talks about his experiences in nature. That’s how I plan to spend my remaining time.

[@OldEarthWisdom]

I am an old woman of 68 years. I can only do what I can do. I own only 13 pounds of "stuff" and a little dog, I live in a town in Mexico that uses only renewable energy and cleans the water before sending it back to the ocean. I only eat whole-plant food and nothing processed including no oil. My life is not boring as I live within walking distance to everything including the ocean beaches and our town is surrounded by a national forest to hike and explore. Of course, I spend too much time on the internet educating myself.

[@kevincrady2831]

That's awesome. What town do you live in?

[@4imagesmore]

Can I come stay?

[@donpainter5427]

That sounds like a wonderful lifestyle EW! I'm happy for you.

[@tribebuddha]

No cooking oil? Wow. I guess I'm gonna quit cooking oil, too. Simplify! Edit: I live on top of a hill with underprivileged and orphan children whom I teach. It's a small school. We are surrounded by forests and you can hear the rush of the river below. I also eat vegan and spend too much time on the Internet listening to podcasts. Am I poor? I don't think so. It's a sage's life! Sadhu!

[@folkeholmberg3519]

@earthwisdom I love you ❤️ Greetings from Gotland, Sweden.

[@cedarmountain1525]

I've listened to this three times now. And will probably go for a fourth. It's just so rich and so nuanced and well-integrated within itself. Basically a farmer with both feet on the ground telling us in his far-reaching vision and views what we have missed right under our noses. And I have no idea how he keeps all his facts and figures straight right off the top of this head. Brilliant. Truly. Thank you, most appreciatively. I could go for another separate interview on anything he wanted to talk about.

[@alandoane9168]

Kudos to Prof. Rees for being honest when confronted with the host's siloed optimism about the potential of humanity to get itself out of the inextricable problem it has created for itself. No amount of systems analysis or well-intentioned cheerleading for change is going to overcome human nature in 8,000,000,000 humans, fewer than 1% of which will ever even begin to comprehend the true scope of the predicament of overshoot, and even then only a fraction would be willing to make the epic, incomprehensible changes necessary to make human life compatible with the planet. I know it's not what you want to hear, Nate, but he's inarguably correct. I wish that you would integrate this fact into your work going forward.

[@oliviachipperfield6029]

Very much agree.

[@simuliid]

Well said my friend. I agree. Now what?

[@gking407]

I like to think most humans are adaptable but we all know lots of us will resist truth all the way to the grave, just as we saw during the peak of the covid pandemic

[@stevemacgruther4051]

Absolutely

[@HoserEh82]

I came to this realization of overshoot late (now at age 41) and I am just grasping at a plan. All I can do is learn how our ancestors lived off the land and to apply it now and to teach my kids, I cannot help/convince others, but i can teach and inform my kids on what they inherited and how to live in balance.

[@alfonsoinaustralia]

Loved this episode. It feels good not being alone with this analysis and view that most people in our society regard as extreme, radical and dangerous. To those people it doesn’t even come to mind that their view and behavior is exactly that. I am a citizen of Davos, Switzerland. Next week the World Economic Forum 2023 starts. The billboard advertisements of multinational corporations are everywhere. All claim to be super sustainable and are working for a better future. Same sh**, different year. 😂 It’s a big joke and can get unbearable at times. As long as the current zeitgeist and ideology persist, nothing will change. Myself, I am a hopeful pessimist. But, I am doing my part in behaving in a more responsible and mature manner than the blind and naïve majority. I have accepted my role. 😊

[@khushwindersinghuniversali8317]

What's your assessment of world economics forum? What about last three years of pandemic and its affects?

[@alfonsoinaustralia]

​@@khushwindersinghuniversali8317 “The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding” (Albert Camus). I started my message with Albert Camus’ quote because of the WEF’s good intentions. But good intentions are not enough to improve the state of the world, which is their claim. It’s time to admit that the applied approach does not yield the desired results. But the prerequisite for that would be understanding, respect, and honesty. But let’s not get fooled. The WEF is an economic and political lobbying organization funded by multinational corporations. Their objective may therefore well be to improve the state of the world, but only if it doesn’t hurt their members (too much). Their approach bases on the mainstream ideology (economic growth and belief in technological progress) with a focus on efficiency. We know the results for our ecosystems. Sometimes the WEF may produce a success story, but overall, the state of the world is not improving but worsening. The WEF in Davos is a networking event for the elites from business and politics. First and foremost, it’s a platform for self-promotion. It’s a PR event for many WEF corporate members with the message: “Look at our great organization that is working for a better future.” If you had the chance to walk through Davos these days, you would see and understand. I myself am not putting any hope in the World Economic Forum to solve problems. I believe the organization may be doing more harm than good, because it suggests that the situation is under control. I used to be more optimistic about the potential benefits of this meeting. The same applies for all climate conferences. But that was before I understood how the superorganism works and how blind, ignorant, self-seeking and anthropocentric we have become as people and as a society. We have to admit to ourselves: We have become a cancer on this planet.

[@Monkeybongoes]

"It feels good not being alone with this analysis and view that most people in our society regard as extreme, radical and dangerous." So true, I need to hear people like William Reese now and then to avoid total depression and despondence.

[@khushwindersinghuniversali8317]

@@alfonsoinaustralia i have come to similiar conclusions as well.

[@markfox9821]

@@alfonsoinaustralia I would argue that the WEF does not suggest "that the situation is under control". Certainly, their Global Risks Report For 2023 doesn't. Well worth a read. Nate referenced it her in the comments.

[@CitizenK1969]

"Yes we could, but we won't." That captures my view as well. For me, there is a theme emerging in the Great Simplification interviews: there is something sort of "mathematically inevitable" (note the quotation marks) about our predicament. Human cultures that are rapacious simply out compete those that are restrained in resource use... so without pan-species behavioral changes, we can't escape our "fate." I think this is why Nate started out looking at energy and the environment, but has arrived at a place of increasingly talking about human motivation, human nature. We either have to transcend our nature, or literally transform into something different, a species less inherently competitive, more in tune with its ecosystem... I'm reminded of the end of Vonnegut's novel /Galapagos/, which sees humanity survive, long term, by regressing into a kind of sea lion species. I want to believe we can overcome out nature, but history puts that in serious doubt.

[@R3bel02]

I also liked "knowledge per se doesn't change behavior"

[@mkkrupp2462]

Yes, the great majority of people don’t want to know about what lies ahead. My experience is that they don’t want to hear about it or discuss it. They prefer to watch Netflix and entertain themselves.

[@EvolutionWendy]

I read Galapagos! Human nature is hardwired to consider the opinions of our group as more important than our individual opinions, because that was the best survival strategy. Herd instinct leada us off a cliff.

[@Jabjabs]

Alan Watts once said it in a most pessimistic way - If we can, we will. As in, if we can kick the can down the road, we will.

[@grindupBaker]

If you build it they will come.

[@michaelshiloh787]

This is exactly what I needed to see. I wish everyone in the world would say the same.

[@frustratedatheist9885]

Great conservation, William Rees is an excellent communicator of our predicament. I would say in the U.S. we did have a political leader try to have us conserve energy and consume less, that would be Jimmy Carter. The public does not want to be told that they need less and to change their priorities. I was 5 when he was voted out of office, for Reagan.

[@gking407]

That era did more damage to the planet than possibly any other, not that anyone then knew wtf they were doing.

[@kayakerpaddler2023]

I also thought of Carter who was one of our best. I see that as a very pivotal point in our history…a very bad one.

[@christinearmington]

Republicans paid the Iranians to keep the hostages until Reagan was inaugurated.

[@eric109martel]

The key words of this amazing conservation are: understanding instead of believing… This comment coming from Québec, Canada and a 52 years old doing a master degree in geography specializing in Resilience, Risk and disaster… M. Rees having a very important impact on this ongoing master degree project. Thank you very much Nate and Bill, for contributing to the necessity of social learning, and by doing so in a simple, but very clear and distinctive manner. On a final note, I am sorry for all the possible syntax and grammar errors; I mostly speak and write in French, and I hope I have not offended anyone. Congratulations Nate, keep it up, we very much need that you pursue this adventure.

[@PT-cu2fg]

You expressed yourself quite perfectly Eric. The fact that world leaders, and the citizenry of the world, didn’t beat a path to Bill Rees’ door in the 70’s or 80’s (after the first Earth Day or James Hansen’s climate warning to the US Congress) was early proof of our absolute inability to overcome our genetic predisposition to consume all available resources. We are hardwired to do what we are doing-it’s not our fault, it’s our destiny because we’re no different from any other species that ever existed. Our thinking cerebral cortex can in no way overrule the deeper, more primitive emotional, pleasure seeking and competitive parts of our brain. Bill has spoken to this, the triune brain theory, noting that it isn’t perfectly clear cut among all scholars, in other presentations.

[@christinearmington]

Pas de tout Eric. Mercí 😊

[@TennesseeJed]

I put this comment out knowing full well that I will get my ass kicked in the response comments, but I honestly believe this is one of the most important conversations on the entire internet!

[@AlanDavidDoane]

Hey Jed! I listened to this when it was new and came back six months later for a refresher. It is definitely one of the most important conversations in the history of the human race. I wish more people would listen to it.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@AlanDavidDoane yeppers, we reckon ourselves smart, but we can't deny Moloch and the race to the bottom.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@AlanDavidDoane You've inspired me to watch it again too! Thanks!

[@Corrie-fd9ww]

No ass kicking, just agreement! I popped in to see that this video has 80k views! That’s more than I expected! I disagree with collapsologists when they say that no humans ever lived in alignment with earth, or not for very long. But otherwise, I’ve never heard/seen anyone (except for indigenous elders and teachers) get things so *right* about our predicament. Deep ecology folks, wherever they come from, are the real “prophets” and so therefore, the least listened-to and acknowledged as correct and prescient.

[@Aubury]

No arse kicking from me. A hugely important video in my view. Profoundly sobering.

[@suzychristensen8977]

This guy knows his stuff…. Especially about the key holes scientists and religions put us in. Thank you for speaking up

[@jmm8291]

Presented in such an understandable manner. Thank you for having Prof Rees on the podcast. He is one of my hero’s for being willing to speak these unpopular truths

[@Libertariun]

Unpopular? I doubt it. There are at least two generations currently embracing this latest version of end of the world messages.

[@EmeraldView]

@Jon Dear Not the kids I know, who are in high school now. They are preparing for and being prepared for a world that won't exist. The world we have lived in for decades. They are wasting their time and they don't even seem to know it.

[@EmeraldView]

The end is near. I can feel it. I can see it. I'm living it.

[@lonewanderer9982]

Not alone.

[@aum82]

Definitely not alone

[@guycloutier4182]

"The end is in near." - Remember the Life magazine of the 6o'ies / 70'ies? There always was this B&W picture in the last pages with an inspiring caption. Around '72 (the year of the Report to the Club of Rome), the picture was that of a lady bending and showing her (white) underware in doing so. The caption being: "The end is in sight!" (Yes, I'm an oldtimer.) Well it literally is.

[@dennis6693]

Like a cancer becoming self-aware. Brilliant! I doubled in Regional Planning & Dev Theory and Cultural Anthropology back in college in the 80's. Since then, I've watched us (human populations) metastasize. You've confirmed my greatest fears. Your work and your guests have presented the most holistic and comprehensive understanding of our dilemma that I have encountered to date. It helps to find solutions when you can better understand the problem. Thank you.

[@EvolutionWendy]

Yeah I remember the 80s, concerns that city lights disrupted animals' sleep patterns. Today I can't see the Milky Way. Concerns that smaller frog and salamander populations were a serious pollution warning. Today land ocean and air are filled with microplastics. Not a single excess that we've taken a step back from. Except CFC. THAT is our singular success. Our systems are controlling us.

[@davidfrette2500]

Funny, the more i understand the problem the more i understand there is not the time to implement any solutions. Which means there are no solutions.

[@dennis6693]

There are many possible solutions, but the most likely outcome will be collapse. Population collapse will be accelerated by war, including bio-war, and then the "Reset" or "New System" will rebalance and regulate population growth and resource consumption. There are many solutions, but they all begin or end with population decline. The question is how rapid, by what means, who, and when this will occur.

[@EvolutionWendy]

@@davidfrette2500 I agree. I read the primary Science journal articles (inexpensive subscription to AAAS) and it's shocking how these research articles are summarized to minimize the conclusions. Then mainstream media takes the summaries as the facts.

[@EvolutionWendy]

There is an OVERT insistence that if people know how dire the situation is, lethargy and non action will result. Ironic:: I haven't seen a peer-reviewed research article proving lethargy will result from factual information.

[@catherinebanks6420]

Thank you Prof Rees for explaining how society cannot change quickly enough for what is coming. "Social learning" is a 50 year endeavor minimum (more like 70 years)-- but we only have about a decade to prevent catastrophe. I am pessimistic too. Nate, I really appreciate your efforts raising awareness. Another great interview!

[@EvolutionWendy]

Interesting that Nate asks 2X what Bill would tell a young person about this, my observation is that the young people already know Overshoot.

[@willchristie2650]

A sobering thought is that there are now Americans who think the Earth is flat. The GOP has been ramping up hatred and distrust in Science since Donald Trump appeared on the scene.

[@treefrog3349]

I totally concur. Ate the age of 74 I cringe at much of what is going on in the world. I feel like a parent wanting to warn his child "don't touch that hot stove." It is frustrating and heart-breaking and unavoidable. Accumulated wisdom succumbs to bright light and loud noises.

[@EmeraldView]

We don't have a decade unfortunately. Worse is that we aren't even slowing down, but rather speeding up. What's wrong with us!!!

[@guycloutier4182]

Yup! More like 70 years. An analogy would be that of the bank clerk/cashier. Once the computer has been in service for more than one (1) generation of workers, the ability to do without has been 'unlearned', lost, vanished into oblivion, with very few old timers to communicate the tricks of the trade (in the case of bank clerks), and mindset (in the case that interests us).

[@madeleinepengelley2854]

This is the first time I have experienced a shared understanding of our predicament. False hope is not hope. It is denial. If there is any hope (and I do not see it from where I sit) it will emerge in the future. And I believe that Nate is right: that we can build resilience and be examples of living more simply. And as a side benefit, living more simply is more fulfilling and is higher quality experience than living in the empty narrative of consumerism. Many thanks.

[@lumpoflabor]

I greatly admire Bill Rees and agree with him on just about everything. The one disagreement I have is that he attributes the behavior to "human nature." There was, however, a chronic aversion among peasants to superfluous wealth. Development economists in the 1960 complained about what they called the "image of limited good" and sought strategies to combat it so that economic growth could proceed unopposed. We need to ask what happened a little over 200 years ago to create the human SECOND nature that economists, along with Bill Rees, insist is "human nature"? What happened, over the course of several centuries, was the generalization of an economy of commodity exchange. Traditionally, most production has always been for the direct purpose of consumption, either by the producers themselves or by landlords who confiscated surplus output on the basis of their ownership of the land. Peasants learned that it was dangerous to produce TOO MUCH of a surplus in a good year because then landlords would expect a larger surplus every year. It was only in the 18th and 19th centuries that the production of commodities for the market came to predominate, especially in Great Britain. And it was in the same centuries that political economy rose to prominence in its attempts to explain this newly predominate market economy.

[@nirvonna]

William Rees. William Rees William Rees. I will remember that name. William Rees is the most insightful, articulate and clearly-spoken person I’ve ever heard express the reality of the ways our species has, and continues, to alter life on earth in ways that are unsustainable. The result, the inevitable unfolding of our habits, are not stoppable and the writing is on the wall. Just now, after encountering William Rees on that podcast, I just did a KZbin search on him and there’s a wealth therein.

[@Andre-hm5vo]

William Rees and Peter Joseph that's the dream duo interaction for me.

[@nirvonna]

Wow! Not new stuff to me actually since reading William Catton’s book Overshoot. That said, Professor Rees is the most brilliant and insightful person I’ve ever heard. 100% spot-on and so refreshing to hear the honest truth stated so clearly. This is the first podcast I’ve listened to from The Great Simplification. I listened to the audio format before learning it was on KZbin as well. Well done!

[@EvolutionWendy]

I really liked the end, where bill says what he loves best of course wife and family, but also Bill has been in natural places where he literally wept, and mentioned stepping on a sleeping polar bear!!

[@lisawilliamson5012]

I'm so glad I found you guys. I live in France and have been listening to the French scientists. I discovered Nate Hagen recently when you interviewed Jancovici, the French guru. Now I can broaden my learnings to the Anglo-Saxon/American world, and find out what the hell is going on there. We're all in this together, and we can all learn from each other. Thank you for taking time to produce these podcasts. They are precious. 🙏

[@denisdaly1708]

One of a handful of people who truly understand where we are re sustainability. Thanks for inviting him to talk.

[@LLLAAABBB]

I often think what the hell is wrong with me, so its enlightening to share same opinions with such a capacity as Prof. Rees is. Thank you Nate for your work!

[@mkkrupp2462]

I greatly admire and respect William Rees. He is a true intellectual, with wide ranging knowledge and wonderful insight into the human condition. Thanks for having him on Nate !

[@aum82]

“What we could do is completely separate from what we will do” ~ William E. Rees

[@EmeraldView]

Humanity (as a whole) doesn't have it in us to do what we MUST do.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

This is also known as ‘cognitive dissonance’, but then on a grand, global scale.

[@terenceiutzi4003]

​@EmeraldView no humanity as a whole has fallen for the alarmists propaganda that is giving Russian and Chinese energy and manufacturing a world wide Monopoly! And that is the first step in Hitlers New World Order that is the end of all democracy!

[@guinevere4365]

After reading comments decided not to watch the program in a selfish act of self-preservation

[@gking407]

If anyone can change it course it will have to be the young children. Their reality will be much different from ours, so the decision whether to adapt or perish probably won’t be as difficult

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

This is an amazing conversation, really honest and sincere and i hope many millions will watch this

[@Changeworld408]

Probably few will listen the entire episode. Too depressing😢

[@guycloutier4182]

"... many millions" - Don't want to burst your bubble, but 8 months later we're up to 61 thousands. Keep the faith. Chin up'n all that! 😇

[@edgeman148]

Nate I have watched many of your presentations-podcasts over many years and I want to make an offer. Since 2014 I have purposefully gone from jointly owning I home in LA with my separated Wife, renting a three bedroomed home in New Zealand and a two bedroomed apartment in El Segundo, CA (all at the same time) to helping to convert a 10ft x 12ft garden shed into a small tiny-home where I live in a garden where I grow a lot of my own food and where I practice efficient humanure. I do not drive any more and have not flown since 2014. It would give me great pleasure to share this detailed journey with your audience and I can say that I am happier now than I have been for many years and of course, thank you for all that you are doing.

[@EvolutionWendy]

Good for you. That's quite a journey. Small is beautiful.

[@christinearmington]

Mike, thanks for the “how” response that William finds missing from the papers he reads. Actual personal changes to move into “great simplification.”

[@EmeraldView]

That's all I want. A tiny place to live that meets my limited needs. A computer and internet helps a lot! If only everyone could live so simply.

[@elang3366]

Humanize! Excellent! Let's take responsibility for our bodie's left overs. Here in Florida, compost toilets are legal. But of course we should provide oversight and see that the natural process is proceeding normally.

[@MarneeMadsen]

Good Lord the patience of this man to help you accept reality

[@tomschuelke7955]

Living in Germany. listening to William E. rees was one of the most fundamental and enlightening Lectures i ever had... i allready heared many of his Talks. but it is allways the same. He´s just Brilliant.. The only he got Wrong... He´s not german, so i had to learn better english, to understand him.. and i did. Wished more people would understand this.

[@Killane10]

This truth is difficult to listen to but a kind of medicine that we all need to swallow. Only the truth can set us free❤

[@centuriesofblood]

I dearly hope William will continue to make these videos since he is the foremost voice of reason analyzing our current ecological situation.

[@eneldia85]

El Prof. Rees es un grande. Gracias por hablar con claridad y fundamento. Mi admiración y respeto!

[@tomlowe2407]

I had much the same problem in my academic career. I finally created a course in environmental economics. This bridged the gap a bit. I keep trying to direct people to the work of H. T. Odum. Nate, keep up the good work. As an old ecologist said don’t let the bastards wear you down.

[@treefrog3349]

Another, in an august list of guests. Thanks, Nate. Your podcasts are proving to be a "natural resource" that we SHOULD consume.

[@EvolutionWendy]

♻️ 😂 "thinking Pac-Man"

[@alaskainstituteforclimatea141]

Fellow ecologist/evolutionary biologist here. “We” and “human nature” need to be qualified. Global capitalism siphons Earth’s bio capacity to the top 15% of the population in “developed” economies. “We” lived in balance with the biosphere for 99.9% of our evolutionary history. The case can be made that outside of modernity, we are hardwired for biophilia (aka EO Wilson). Indigenous and many rural land based communities still live in relative balance. The burgeoning rewilding and ecological restoration movements reflect these deeper Ecological values. Framing climate change as a pollution subset of the larger ecological crisis and cities are fundamentally human “feedlots”, is right on. Excellent discussion!

[@thegreatsimplification]

All true. The economic super organism (power law 80/20 to 20% of population in global north) is the system that “outcompeted” more sustainable systems. This will reverse when energy surplus reverses. (I think)

[@Azamat421]

That won't happen fusion energy lie

[@oliviachipperfield6029]

I LOVE William Rees!!! I'm so excited that You got him on your show! I've always thought that humans are just too darn smart for their own good, but not smart enough to see it until it's too late😔

[@johnbanach3875]

"So skillful in their ignorance," as one sage put it.

[@ariggle77]

Humans are clever but not wise.

[@EnvironmentalCoffeehouse]

Me too Olivia.

[@pts619]

Two of the people I have the utmost respect for on this planet. Thank you, I just wish everyone would listen and open their minds, but I'm not confident they ever will.

[@djclass005]

He is the best at explaining what we face, and the way he constructs his vision, you cannot counter it, all the bases are covered! Like you said Nate, braiding with him bums you out, but is also very interesting.

[@ariggle77]

He's the absolute best.

[@jessieadore]

Sending love to everyone tapped in 💕

[@FREEAGAIN432]

Thank you for this potent conversation Nate and Bill. I love Bill's honestly and passionate insistence for the serious issues we face. I hope millions watch this video and feel the truth, and make practical changes for the future generations.

[@unclesamshrugged2621]

Wow, such clarity, and such a sobering collision with reality. "Knowledge does not alter behavior." Thanks Nate

[@jesse8025]

Thank you Nate. Your podcast is my favourite thing on KZbin at the moment. All your conversations are interesting and insightful. Look forward to each new episode.

[@zpettigrew]

Thanks! I'm a Complex Systems Scientist and Biomedical Scientist. I'm deep in the literature - but never heard of Rees before. Will look into his work now. Work seems important.

[@EvolutionWendy]

Geez.

[@prahslra]

@zpettigrew Read the 1980 seminal text by William Catton: ‘Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change’

[@guycloutier4182]

... Remember quantum mechanics works from probabilities. And electrons can tunnel in & out of states. What are the conditions of tunneling. Also remember Shrodinger's wave equation means the quantum leap of an electron does not happen abruptly; it's a gradual change in the "duty cycle" between levels... It always bewildered me how teenagers grow and change their habits in the very same manner: shifting back and forth before stabilizing into a young adult state. So I keep your fingers crossed 🤞.

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Outsounding! He is so smart!

[@anthonycooper3191]

Excellent video! Telling the truth of the complete mess we are all in, and how it came to be so. Also pointing out that it is not possible to change our toxic way of living on this planet for all the reasons stated so clearly and truthfully in the video. No endless blah, blah blah, nonsense from politicians, just the facts of the matter, plain and simple.

[@mamajojoful]

This is one of the best interviews you have done Nate. I am sharing this with my local Extinction Rebellion group here in Melbourne Aus. I have been depressed but despite the horror of reality of the complex system we are all caught in, the important thing is to stay grounded in the reality and that will dictate the action to be taken. Disruption may be key. Prof Bill Rees I love you!

[@danavisalli3467]

Great conversation, thanks so much. I'm only an hour into it so far, hard to imagine what you will cover in the next hour. Rees was our keynote speaker at the energy conference that we held in small-town Twisp WA in 2001; he pretty much said the same things then! At our men's group this morning one of the guys talked about how much he just loves his motorhome and how they might skip CA because of the flooding and go straight to AZ. This after being in that group with me for 20 years. You are catching all this in this conversation: humans are short-term sighted, ecology blind, 19:40: 'There's nothing unusal about a population boom/bust cycle.' The universe might be compassionate but nature is merciless.

[@jrobbfraser]

I had a similar experience. After listening to this, I had dinner with several friends from our local transition initiative. Two spent the evening talking about all their travels and the discomforts of long airplane rides. It was nice to see them “in person” for the first time since 2020 but so clearly ignoring what we’ve grappled with as a group for years.

[@reuireuiop0]

Yeah, ever so often that happens, even with skilled environmental journalists I heard talking, ending the conservation with stating how how much they looked forward to their spring "break" 2 weeks plus someplace in Southern Europe, flying of course. Even worse - a media researcher in Sweden described how a public TV team came over to film the Scandinavian leg of traveling Europe by train. Because of some luxury commitments elsewhere, meetings, but also having to bring kids to school, the team didn't stay in Sweden, but flew in and out, not once but several trips. While they were there, the woman had to work as a fixer, providing packed food and bottled water every day, several meals. All left overs plus packaging were thrown away. And this coming from the most environmentally aware program makers in the country, plus, they were going to film in 5 or 6 other countries as, promoting train travel as a means for Climate aware means to get around. My jaw must've dropped to the other side of the globe reading all that. NB I am in Europe, but that don't make those ways any better

[@nickkacures2304]

I wouldn’t want dinner to end if we were talking about tipping points and symptoms of climate change William is explaining the complexity of climate crisis in a way that’s very important.

[@peterclark2374]

Thanks Dr Hagens / Nate and Dr Rees. I appreciate Dr Rees candor in sharing his science and conclusions. Great job Nate in hosting! I appreciate your grace, persistence in probing and that you could keep rolling for 2 h. I think I felt some pain thru your calm visage.

[@NarisTorquere]

Love to hear the truth about ecology as it is rare and akin to fresh air. Love your conversational, multi faceted scientific perspective. I’m listening…

[@rolfvanharen]

My my my, the syntheses created in this podcast or Natecast is another level. So much handles to come to work with and preparing the big boom of ecological boundries. Lost in words to thank you Nate for this information for simple souls as mine to be understood. Mister Rees, thank you so much.

[@donaldzielke4124]

Powerful interview loaded with incites. Thanks, men!

[@paulcoonan5464]

Thank you Nate, you are a legend and we are all very thankful that you are introducing us to other legends that can change our minds. Please keep doing what you are doing. We really appreciate you more than you can imagine.

[@brianwheeldon4643]

I couldn't agree more with what Bill is saying. Throughout the whole podcast Bill has hammered home the reality of the planetary situation. I've seen it and lived it from the Arctic to New Zealand. I've helped finance it in my professional life, I've taught it, and I have the view that almost everyone living is in for a hell of a ride, and not in a good way. The alarm bells are ringing with 10's of thousands on the streets even in the global north. We need to stay there and realise our predicament. We're in peril. Thanks Nate for speaking with Bill.

[@j85grim4]

Thanks for this. We finally got the pleasure of getting to witness you pick the brain of the greatest mind of all time on this subject the great William Rees. Bill Rees for president 2024

[@mayamichelle6741]

I'm listening Prof. Rees. Thanks for your knowledge, clarity, sober assessment.

[@EvolutionWendy]

And LOL the next episode we get Bill's drunken assessment

[@justcollapse5343]

@@EvolutionWendy 😂💀🥂

[@aum82]

“Homo sapiens are currently approaching the peak of the plague phase of a one-off global population cycle and will crash because of depleted resources, habitat deterioration and psycho-social feedback, including possible war over remaining ‘assets,’ sometime in this century.” ~ William E. Rees

[@dennis6693]

He also added, "What do you think we are doing now in Ukraine?" We are already in a war for the remaining assets, and we are in a war to control/reduce the consumers. We have been engaged in this war for the past two decades (Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, China, ...), only now, it is accelerating. It is also taking on new forms. "War on everything" is the new norm. 8B people will become 4B or 2B or 1B. It is happening now, and you are around to see it. But can you face it?

[@treefrog3349]

That just about sums it up, no?

[@CelestialWoodway]

Probably for the best. Life sucks for most people then they get old and die anyway. It's all pointless it seems.

[@lonewanderer9982]

@CelestialWoodway I want to go but the others want you to suffer at least that's how it is in the states. In Canada they offer death if you can't feed yourself.

[@Grizabeebles]

@@lonewanderer9982 -- You really should read read the law itself rather than just repeat Facebook rumours. The law in Canada (MAID) requires a permanent, progressive and debilitating illness. Mental illness alone does not qualify.

[@mkkrupp2462]

I think it was Oxfam which put out a chart a few years ago showing the 100 biggest economies in the world. More than 60% were corporations rather than countries. That reality explains so much.

[@wildriver42]

Another tremendous guest! Thanks, Nate and team!

[@LisavonPoelking]

I follow you regularly and so appreciate the valuble information you provide here. Amazing!!

[@johnthom3342]

The fundamental problem is that no one, including William Rees, can ever do anything about the fundamental problem except talk endlessly about it. Humanity like every other animal is good at living in the moment and responding spontaneously to whatever challenges he'/she is presented with as a member of a small tribal group living in nature. And that is what it will come down to in a few single-digit years.

[@goodnatureart]

So good to watch this talk with Rees again. He keeps making more sense every time I see this...we've used 90% of fossil and carbon fuels since 1945? Wow. It is worth having these conversations even if they are depressing because our resilient DNA requires it to survive the trauma drama of our species eclipsing the boundaries of this ocean planet.

[@sherrydionisio4306]

Thank you Professor Rees and Nate. From your lips to the ears of the masses. I am a skeptic and pessimistic; however, I’ve found some degree of insight through history, my personal introspection and simplification. Good luck to us all.

[@briandowney9913]

Thank you, William and Nate, for educating and inspiring me yet again!!

[@sultanbev]

Great conversation, William Rees really nails it.

[@user-kp5xy8xy4m]

Thank you for being real and speaking reality as it is Mr. Rees. Thank you Nate for giving these experts a platform in addition to bringing your own knowledge, expertise, and thoughts to the table.

[@EnvironmentalCoffeehouse]

My gaia, I love William Rees.

[@martintye6962]

Two of the most important people on this planet at present!

[@louiskleber8267]

Essential Conversation for someone (who ain’t already deep in the topic) to see and understand so much of the problem space. Thank you very much.

[@goodnatureart]

best convo I've seen with Rees.

[@neilmorgan7737]

How do people deal with this knowledge and the realisation that we have exceeded the carrying capacity of this planet and we are destined to crash at some point in the future/near future? I have changed many of my individual actions and tried to reduce my individual carbon footprint. I continue to learn from individuals such as Nate and his guests like William constantly gaining more knowledge and understanding of the way we humans have evolved, expanded and exploited the natural resources to this point where we are reaching the point of collapse. I battle each day to continue to work knowing that at some point, perhaps in my own lifetime our system is going to collapse. How do people stay motivated with this realisation?

[@codyawz]

Central question. Carrying on in a system soon to collapse.

[@erikolsen6269]

Thanks for these videos. KZbin needs more content like this

[@jrobbfraser]

This is a keeper. So many excellent and easy to grasp explanations of what we’re experiencing as a species, I am encouraging others to give a listen.. Cities as feedlots. The paradox of caring yet consuming. More discussions with Dr. Rees please! Do humans need hope or is that also a modern myth? What are human rights? Are they a misguided attempt at equal access to over shoot or a positive component of globalization?

[@Valerieanai]

Honest and to the point, thank you

[@sarahammer5492]

William Rees is a very clear communicator. Thanks for speaking with him. I agree that formal education has not encouraged people to think critically about the poly-crisis. However, I do think it is a mistake to think that the only learning that happens is what goes on in formal education systems. Having worked in a university myself for many years, I have seen first hand the death of the university as a place of deep thinking. However, as a member of a rapidly expanding Permaculture community, I have also seen peoples' awareness shift, sometimes later in life, towards an understanding of how what we do impacts life systems. Does this mean we will be able to change in time to avert the poly-crisis? - probably not. But there are communities out there that are developing different ways of living in parallel with the the BAU of the superorganism. Perhaps you could speak to someone from the Transition Town movement, which has been going for a couple of decades now and evolved out of a concern about "peak oil" and the climate crisis. Totnes, UK is the epicentre of this. Movements such as this will be critical when the Great Simplification happens.

[@jeremytorgersen]

Excellent interview and discussion! I found this via the indirect rabbit hole from researching sustainability, overpopulation, finances, and simplification with credit to the books "Your Money Or Your Life" and "Early Retirement Extreme" for changing my life towards this focus from economics towards the systems theory application and ecological approach. I will have to listen to this again to continue to get more out of it. This video should go viral, more people clearly need to hear this. Thank you for sharing and I look forward to listening to more interviews on this channel!

[@johnmitchell2741]

Humanity will go out in a big ball of fire🏴‍☠🏴‍☠thanks for the talk guys

[@Andre-hm5vo]

Humanity deserves it.

[@robertdelmar8958]

When I was 19 I had a summer job with the Bureau of Land Management doing Range land Condition and Trend studies related to the grazing capacity for livestock. It occurred to me even then ( 1962) that how the earth was like the range lands I was studying with a finite set of resources that could be depleted. I have followed William Rees' studies with ever increasing interest and alarm. .

[@GlobeHackers]

Nate connects with people we need to know.

[@bobmathieson987]

As a Permaculture practitioner, I wholeheartedly agree with William Rees on all his conclusions. There is so much blind leading of the blind happening in these modern times. These concepts were and are being taught by too few Permaculture teachers who take a holistic approach to the management of lifestyles, resources, consumption, cultural differences, excess and deficit, resilience strategy, and species continuum, to name a few. Overshoot is an understatement for sure and can we survive this predicament? Only a positive, courageous intervention will tell hopefully in time.

[@wvhaugen]

Bill Rees is one of my guys. But even he cannot grasp that die-off is in our future AND that we must develop ways to deal with it on an individual basis.

[@johnmitchell2741]

Agree

[@vintage_violet]

THIS Is the most important conversation/s we need to be having. Unfortunately...

[@EvolutionWendy]

Yeah it's ironic isn't it. He swiftly turned the corner and started talkin about a lifestyle of camping out with friends, in our future. From a young age I saw that the humans around me are living in a social construct rather than reality.

[@EmeraldView]

Everyone wants to hope. It's in our nature. Reality will ultimately prevail.

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

It is rather unfortunate that is likely the only way this will conclude.

[@GregoryJWalters]

"Growth is destructive once you are Beyond Carrying Capacity." (Rees) Tnx for super conversation!

[@barrycarter8276]

Thank you Nate for a great discussion with (Bill) W.E.Rees, it reinforces what I’ve believed for some years, but talk to most people as yourself and Bill mentioned and they just don’t want to believe it as it’s to painful to acknowledge. I’ve talked with the parents of my grandchildren who also find it hard to believe only to be told not say anything to the grandchildren (youngest 11yoa) of my ecological overshoot beliefs and yet they’ll be the ones most likely to see the effects of our eras decadence. Which leaves me wondering how does one get the word out without frightening people to the point they don’t want to believe it?🤔

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

I don't think you can. I think there is something different about those of us who believe it. Like Greata Thunberg, she is Autistic, I am too. I believe it. I will not be procreating. Lol, and yet my fellow country people will think I should because I am 'British' and because high functioning autism 'doesn't exist'. Best to try to talk to your grandchild about this when they are an adult and away from their parents.

[@donpainter5427]

I had been anxiously waiting for this discussion between Nate and Wm Rees and for the most part it did not disappoint. I am a bit surprised that the "Citizens' Warning" and "The REAL Green New Deal" never came up in this 2 hour talk. Nate, I urge you to make yourself aware of these papers if you are not aware of them and for all the listeners as well. Thank you Nate, for what you do!

[@derekalderman6221]

Excellent discussion, we are listening

[@kushalpanchal4951]

20 year old from India over here, trying to make my as many friends aware as possible. Also , joined a permaculture movement here in Madhya Pradesh.

[@timtam2126]

Wow fantastic guest 👏 👌 👍 thanks a bundle

[@cmonc1984]

Thank you for this all encompassing explanation of our predicament. The brilliant Mr. Rees is spot on about everything. Yet the basic concepts are so simple it's unfortunate it takes so long before they are widely accepted.

[@KaizenTrainingLtd]

Brilliant conversation - thanks Bill and Nate xx

[@louisehoff9467]

Thank you for this excellent interview.

[@jeeed6390]

Wow, I need to watch this again. And again.

[@arleenducey8511]

Brilliant Dr. Rees!!!!

[@FromShetoMe]

Any politician who speaks the truth to the ignorant masses would be laughed out of office. As soon as the truth would be spoken, there would be an endless supply of “experts” proclaiming alternative truths. So let’s be real here. Stop blaming elected officials. They were selected by people who got exactly what they voted for. Thanks for interviewing Bill. He and Al Bartlet have always been favorites of mine.

[@TomAnitaMorgan]

Good interview. Reese knows of what he speaks! Personnally I agree. there is no f'ing way that voluntary lifestyle reduction will happen.

[@cal48koho]

It was good yo see one of my heroes in the flesh. He is a real pleasure to read and listen to. One question: Why was William Catton who wrote the milestone book "Overshoot" not even mentioned? His book laid out almost everything discussed here.

[@andromadaus]

This is the most reasonable,honest & all incompassing discussion on CC experienced so far. ✓

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

Half of all fossils fuels ever used have been consumed since 1990.... Let that sink in...i watched Albert Bartlett's lecture many years ago and it shook me to my core

[@anthonytroia1]

Yikes!

[@felipearbustopotd]

Nothing will change when those that can make the change happen, have no financial incentives to do so. Which is a sad indictment in the lack of foresight and long term consequences. Thank you for uploading and sharing.