Winchester Shotguns: Model 12 vs Model 1300

Have a look at the Winchester Model 1300 and it's predecessor, the Model 12. They are both great shotguns. Join me as we look at their similarities and differences. Which do you like better? Is it the Winchester Model 1300 or the Winchester Model 12? Join me for my thoughts and then follow the links below for more USOG. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
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[@joetruth5924]

Picked up a Model 12 in 12 Gauge last year in 95% condition. I went to my local pawn shop looking for a project gun. The shop owner said he had one in the back but it wasn’t a project gun. As soon as I saw it I bought it on the spot. Gave it a thorough cleaning and had my local gunsmith add a recoil pad. Ran the serial number and found out that is was made in 1955. Took it to the trap range and consistently break 20+ birds with it even with the modified choke. I have already had offers for twice what I paid for it. Always been a Browning BPS guy but now that I have this Model 12 I realize what I was missing.

[@widestride5951]

Picked a model 12 slam fire in 20 gauge from my local pawn shop. Did some research and from what I can find it was made in 1927. The action is smoother than my Ithaca. I swear by the model 12. Best shotgun ever made

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Fantastic find and buy! I wish I could find a 20 - they're all in collections.

[@nicholaspietrzak9992]

1200s, 120s, and 1300s are excellent guns and can be had for dirt cheap. Mine has taken a lot of pheasants.

[@JDW-ie1ht]

Good to know, you are one of several who have given this gun (120) a good rating. You'd be surprised how much hate there seems to be for these models. Must be bad qc or maybe people abuse them and they break.

[@cowboycarpenter8713]

I have a model 12 / 16 gauge. I bought used in 1967. I never wanted a different shotgun. I've tried and used others but the model 12/16 is the only one I still have. It's light fast to reload and totally reliable.

[@michaelbrooker1433]

I have my father's 16 gauge Model 12, he got it when he turned 16, in 1935.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Heirloom. : )

[@larryfisher7056]

I also have my father's 16ga Model 12. His dad gave him 25 acres to farm in Nebraska when he was a young fellow in the 30s and with the profit that he made he went into Sydney and bought his shotgun. Took many pheasants, quail and chukker with it.

[@joshuahenderson]

Just bought my first shotgun this week, Model 12 with Factory Poly Choke. Can't wait to shoot with it.

[@bensmith2596]

you are very good at explaining these things your knowledge and love for these weapons shows. thank you

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Ben!

[@thomasmoje5926]

I have a 16 gauge Winchester Model 1200 which I picked up about 3 years ago. My Dad had one years ago and it was the first shotgun I ever fired..learned how to handle a shotgun with that one. I always regretted that I didn't have the chance to buy it from him when he put it up for sale, so when I found one in good shape at local Cabela's I just had to have it out of sentimental reasons but on it's own merits it is an excellent shotgun. Every time I use it brings back many memories of pleasant hunting outings with my Dad.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Great buy and the 16 is hard to find. Many people write me about the sentimental value of their guns - a nice thing.

[@larryeddings3185]

The grand old Winchester Model 12 has long been my favorite hunting shotgun.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Larry - An ideal favorite - you know you chose well! Thanks for the note and good hunting this Fall. All the best.

[@ericweber8914]

I have a model 12 in 16ga, made in 1942. I absolutely love that gun. It just points so well, and is one of the few "elegant" pump guns. Fun tip, if you don't reload the herters brand 16ga shells can be picked up for around $5 a box recently.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

I agree Eric - I'll have to find those shells!

[@pcg3003]

This was helpful. Got a 20 gauge Remington 870 Wingmaster for my 12th birthday, 62 years ago. My gun collector friend wants to sell me a Winchester Model 12 "Trap". At first this felt like a betrayal, like cheating on the 870. But your video now has me wanting to get my hands on the Model 12. Thank you for your excellent presentation. p.s. I don't shoot trap or even practice. I expect that what I point I will hit.

[@ianfrancisledesma4431]

I've always loved the look, feel and weight of the model 12..will have to put that on top of the list.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Ian - You're so right. It is not mechanical perfection that makes a gun a legend - it is those things you identified that do. And then there is the sound of the Model 12 action - amazing.

[@imtiazahmadbutt9115]

I have a 1300 defender. I bought it in 1996. It's still in excellent condition. I love it.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Superb pump shotgun.

[@johnkendall6962]

I remember when the Remington 870 came out . They made a big deal about the two action bars. But I have shot Winchesters and Mossburgs with only one and cannot tell any difference in speed. Good video.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Same here.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Supposed to be more reliable.. les likely to break two action bars than one. Had a wore outJC Higgins model 20 in HS that I shot the hell outta birds with that finally broke the single action bar.. but I was kinda a dumbass I would often sit and work the action vigorously for hours without shooting. Those things are so smooth the bolt slams home hard with almost no resistance.. and I was racking it hard as hell. Anyway there’s a story.

[@rickmansberger4136]

Hello Sir, I have 4 Model 12's in 12, 20, 16 and .410 guage. The 12 Guage is a Heavy Barrel Duck gun, quite unique. I also have a Model 42 that was built on the Model 12 platform in .410 guage. My favorite is the Model 12 in 16 guage. The reason being is that I rescued from a local gun shop. It was badly rusted and pitted on all surfaces, my gunsmith Mr. Redmond said walk away. But i did not. I worked all parts of the gun back to prestine condition with many grades of sand paper and lots of elbow grease., got the metal smooth again, used a trick cold blue method and refinished the furniture. It really turned out nice and I am very proud of resurrecting this piece of shot gun history. It shoots and shoots until your shoulder is tired but it is not, pretty great for a 1934 production. The Model 12 is a re-work of the Model 1897 which was the design of John Moses Browning. T. C. Johnson was the master that redesigned the key components of the Model 1897 into the 1912. Mr. Johnson had a pretty remarkable list of his own accomplishments in design that are often overlooked because of the legend of Mr. Browning. Below is a list a brief facts about Mr. Johnson from wiki; "Thomas Crossley Johnson was an American firearms designer. The son of a President of the Yale Safe and Iron Company, Johnson was trained as an industrial engineer and worked for several companies prior to employment with the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1885. While working for Winchester, Johnson was responsible for some of Winchester's most memorable gun designs: Model 1903, first commercially available rimfireself-loading rifle Model 1905, first commercially available centerfireself-loading rifle Model 1911, self-loading shotgun Model 12, slide action shotgun Model 21, double-barreled shotgun Model 51, "Imperial" bolt-action sporting rifle Model 52 bolt-action smallbore match rifle Model 54 bolt-action hunting rifle (which evolved into the renowned Model 70)." Quite a list indeed, like my 97's, my Model 12's are dear friends and I really appreciate everything about them. I have great examples of Mr. Johnson's designs in my collection; a first year production Model 21; Model 52, King of the 22's; Model 70's, the Rifleman's Rifle; and the Model 12's featuring the Model 42, American's Sweetheart. Funny how most of the great guns that have nicknames are Winchesters. Just a personal observation. Here is the link to a very trick cold bluing technique that i have used many times successfully. People may say cold bluing does not work, granted it is not as dark and brilliant as hot methods, but if you take your time and apply the required number of applications, you get a nice outcome that you can take pride in because you did yourself. Watch "The Best "Cold Blue" Method There is!" on KZbin kzbin.info/www/bejne/jl6mdYKAe5KHo7s Thank you for another wonderful video, especially when you feature my beloved Winchester's. First on the Frontier... First on Firing Line... Winchester, It is Your Hertiage Take care and be safe. Rick Mansberger

[@bobanderson6656]

The 410 is a Model 42.

[@shawnwells5719]

My 1936 vintage Model 12 is most assuredly capable of slam firing. Not a fan of aluminum receivers, hence my preference for the 870 over the Mossberg 500.

[@gregwalker4236]

wonderful review! i have my dad's old duck gun in the model12--pristine condition, but his arms were so long that with the extender butt pad, it's just too long, and i would never think of changing it. although a rattle box, my pre choke exchanger browning bps was a favorite pump.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

The BPS is as good as it gets. I'm guessing your dad would understand if you saved the pad and reduced the length of pull. He made you : )

[@uncleremus5046]

Just picked up a 1300 Defender beyond mint for 225$. After getting surprised by Bears last year cutting grass @ my pond this is the ticket.

[@Sonviggy]

Great video as usual! I started off with an old Remington 870 Wingmaster in 12ga with fixed full choke and 30" barrel..... shot LOTS of trap with that gun. It was a wonderful shotgun, reliable and comfortable. Unfortunately I made the mistake of selling it. I did however purchase a Winchester 1300 XTR in 12ga many years later, another wonderful shotgun, and very affordable. I think it's a very under appreciated shotgun.

[@bigal2696]

Well now I will be looking for a model 12 in 16ga. Thank you for the video

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hope you find one Al!

[@cameroncassel994]

Just found a 1300 almost new for $250, guy bought it shot a couple boxes of shells and parked it for 25 years and I was able to get it!!! Shoots amazing. Grew up with the 1200 and really no difference between the 2.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Fantastic! What a great shotgun! ....and buy. Well done!

[@andrewdavis5404]

Another great presentation mate ,I have a 1300 slug for deer ,pigs etc ,I have never had a m12 .but I like the forever adjustment screws. Ooh I love old quality .now I want one , I take your advise on the 16g

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Andrew - Your 1300 is hard to beat - as you know. For a classic touch for sure the M12 is nice - hope you try one. Good shooting mate.

[@raylamp4505]

1936 model 12 i use works like new and has been used so much that all the blue is gone and gun is almost silver in color. Love it.

[@eclectic3618]

Great video presentation!

[@marcusjosefsson4998]

The Model 12 was slam fire at least until after WW2. Army and Marine Corp used it as trench gun, first at the western front in Europe (WW1) and later in the Pacific campaigns (WW2).

[@mikebeddingfield2144]

Yes sir it is i have 2 a 1958 and a1942. I pull the trigger and can empty the tube as fast as a auto 5 if not faster.

[@sandramoskwa]

I agree with your views on these shotguns. I too own a M 1300 that I use mainly for waterfowl and it has never let me down and points very well. The M 12 is better and will always increase in value where the M 1300 sell for a very affordable price and I feel are a great bargain. Thanks for your review !

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Sandra - I suppose the 1300 - as great as it is - crossed the line into modern guns; they don't seem to fall in the same category as the M12.

[@burgknife758]

Thank you for you reply .sertianly understand thank you for the great videos .

[@worddunlap]

I was issued a Winchester Shotgun while in the Army. 1100 I believe. It was wore out from the sand, no bluing to speak of except on the barrel shroud. I picked it up from the armorer one day and the firing pin was broken/absent. The only remarkable thing was how easy it pumped. I've never owned one myself that was that easy.

[@steveconquest6684]

Hi Mike, I came across this video today and I always enjoy your Model 12 vs other shotgun installments. From what I understand, the slide lock you referenced was to prevent opening the action in the event of a hangfire thus protecting the shooter. Smokeless powder, back when Tommy Johnson designed the Model 12, wasn't as reliable as it is today, That and the waxed paper shotshells which absorbed moisture could be problematic. Also, a gun that could be slam-fired simply meant that the sear mechanism was not designed with a disconnector as they are now. My Ithaca 37's could be slam fired very easily. I have four Model 12s in my collection now, the oldest dated to 1915 and the newest from 1954 and they will all slam-fire. By the way, I have yet to see any repeating shotgun that could dissuade me from my opinion that the Model 12 still rules head and shoulders above the rest (although I love my Browning Auto-5's too). Just my two pence worth. Cheers, Steve

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Steve - very informative post - thank you. The 12 is so great - only recently I was studying the JC Higgins Model 20 - and found that it includes the best of the 12 and others - could be the top pump from a design perspective - but not well known. Thanks again and take care.

[@sneak6654]

I have the Browning reproduction of the Winchester model 42 in 410 ga. I absolutely love that gun and it works great on Dove & Quail and other small game. I am still looking for an original Winchester model 42 and model 12 if I can find one for a reasonable price and in decent condition. I really like your videos a lot and thanks for sharing them.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hey Sneak 66 - that is such a fantastic repro. I hope they make another run of them. I had one, loved everything about it - shot fantastically well with it...and then was offered over a grand for it...and so foolishly sold. Money is useless....just paper....I should have kept the gun. Oh well.

[@domj345]

I too have the Browning model 42 .410 and I have to say that it is one of my favourites! I taken loads of small game with it!

[@a_mustache_of_great_repute]

I have a 1300 and i had a lot of difficulty until i realized its actually MEANT to cock itself on the recoil. Now i love firing it. The recoil assisted cocking makes clays a really high energy sport haha

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Excellent shotgun - strong, reliable and fast.

[@a_mustache_of_great_repute]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns i was fortunate enough to find the 1300 scout combo which comes with both a long barrel and a short barrel with open sights. Its my home defense, small game and large game gun all in one

[@Chriskelly19067]

Great stuff as usual. I notice not many handgun videos. Probably because you seem to value the hunting long arms mainly, but any handguns you're interested in? Right now I am in an old west phase and getting fascinated with the SAA, Schofield/No3, etc.

[@burgknife758]

I was thinking the exact same thought .I was just going to ask the same question when I noticed your comment.

[@Chriskelly19067]

@@burgknife758 yeah i remember a video on the fn5x7 i think but not many others. Just a curiousity!

[@scowler92]

Handguns are basically illegal in Canada unless you're a hunting guide or trapper.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good subject - I had a lot of handguns at one time. I liked and still like the Classic S&Ws and any Colt is interesting. I have a very fine Walther PPK .22 Target and a few others. Sadly, the tremor in my wrist defeats me. I'm working on it and there are surgical solutions but I'm waiting for a natural cure. My rifle shooting is not affected at all. Sorry about the gap - I can still talk about them though - and should : ) The SAA is legend - I had a few - especially nice as one can easily sell and they are money in the bank; the Schofield is another jewel - I never had one - but handled a few, including a very fine Italian reproduction.

[@Chriskelly19067]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns ah i see, that's a shame about the wrists. Going to hope that cure comes soon! The Italian repros are actually what got me on the "kick" (along with the video game red dead redemption 2). I had a ruger vaquero as well at one point as impulse buy, but my infatuation is much stronger now. The Ubertis are wonderful aesthetically but i have heard of functional issues and even one of my own had a very serious burr in the take down pin which caused the whole cylinder to lock up like concrete when you try top pull the pin out (i thought it was a warped pin but it was a burr that you would never have thought could cause such a hang up). Still i love them! I really want the nickel plated Schofield with the nitron blue screws even though it's completely inaccurate to period! Wrong caliber, marked us military when the military never used nickel, and a transfer bar but still awesome looking firearm.

[@johndutton7915]

Great job

[@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929]

They do make model 12s with the slam fire feature, I just picked one up from a pawn shop that was made in 1955 and it will slamfire. If you hold the trigger down and push the fore end forward the hammer will drop.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good to know - I'll try my 12 - maybe they all do.

[@chrischiampo7647]

Mine Both Slamfire 👍🏼

[@ted3681]

Just inherited my great grandfathers Model 12, Full chock.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

You have a legendary shotgun now - and full of meaning - for sure worth keeping.

[@gunfisher4661]

good video ! How about a look at the trusty old Browning A-5 and the others made under license Savage , Remington . I`ve had mine for 40 yrs and will always have it.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi gun fisher! I think I have a video up on the A-5 - or partly on the A-5 ; no Savage or Remington yet though - will do when I get one or the other. Thanks for the reminder.

[@Junior-fd8ux]

A5 is nexted for me

[@Me2Lancer]

I can understand some confusion about Winchester model numbers following the model 12. I have one with a 30" barrel marked model 1200. My 20" barrel for the same shotgun is marked model Ranger 120. Non the less, Winchester pump shotguns cycle smoothly. I'm pretty sure the lockup is like the model 1300 with rotating bolt. I like your endorsement for the 16 ga. The first full size shotgun I fired after my Stevens Model 59A .410 bolt action was my Dad's 16 ga.

[@DrStfuFool]

I have a 1917 Nickel Barrel 28” 16ga chambered for 2 9/16” shells. No idea what to do with it other than love it, because I also have one in 12ga for home defense. Someone shortened the barrel to 25”, so perfect for my purposes.

[@bobcostas1331]

Grandpa hunted with model 12... dad hunted with it in college... now I shoot with it! 70+ years old, still works and even slam fires (had to try). It’s a wild ride. Found a 20 gauge Win. 1200 and wishing it shot 3” ... have you heard of conversions? Or should I sell and just buy a 1300. Thanks

[@charleshuyck6641]

I have a 1953 full choke 16 ga 870 Wingmaster and I love it most of my shotguns are 870 but I do have a 1300 Ducks Unlimited and others. But usually I hunt with a Wingmaster/Rem.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Can't go wrong with the 870 - they never stop; not gas or recoil operated - the 870 is the best arm operated semi-auto ever.

[@CandidZulu]

The only pump I can remember having was a Mossberg bullpup, that was hideous and painful in many ways to use. I like the V shape on the back of the action, I think it ads style. Overall I think the Winchester 1300 looks very nice! You can use any modern finish, like Duracoat, to have a nice more scratch proof finish on the aluminum receiver. A turning bolt seem like an improvement to the old style of tilting bolts. One downside to any pump is that they're not allowed for all types of target shooting, like Sporting Clays or ISSF disciplines. Other than that I really like them. Automatics are objectively better, but it is a lot of fun reloading manually each shot. Although it makes shooting a bit harder since you move the hand as you swing the gun. Perhaps you could make a habit of measuring the stocks of shotguns you have, unless they have been restocked. Should make a nice information source for used gun buyers!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good idea! I will measure and report!

[@VirginianSpencer]

I am a retired gunsmith. The Model 1200 had lots of failures of plastic parts. The 1300 was better. Then came the Speed Pump. Now we have the FN version SXP. One hopes they finally got to the level of durability of the Model 12. Stamped parts are not inherently inferior to machined parts. Better metals and manufacturing methods developed during WWII led to the capability of stamped parts being equal to or better than machined parts. NOTHING is better than a Remington Wingmaster. A Browning BPS is their equal, but they do not feel as good in the hands to a vast majority of people.

[@409rommel]

Another solid video... My wife and I both watch your videos... Keep it up!! By the way, you remind me of Tucker Carlson of FOX... Thats meant as a compliment....😉

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks 409rommel - that is a compliment!

[@dredelcottcryptozooligist4101]

USOG, any chance on reviewing a Remington model 10, 17, or 31? I have a 31 and actually prefer it to my model 12 and 37s out in the field. Thanks for the great work.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Have a 10 and 31 as well as model 12s and others.. like you I like the 31 but the king of smooth pumps is the JC Higgins model 20… (made by High Standard)absolutely the smoothest pumping shotgun ever made.. period.

[@a.lumberjack4456]

Great Sweater, perfect for the polar vortex.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Yes, thank you A. Lumberjack. : ) Now I have to figure out how a polar vortex barreled through my studio. hahahaha - have a great day!

[@mitchellross2400]

I'm relatively new to your "channel". I was wondering if you're a gunsmith or a machinist or a gun designer, and how can one dialogue with you? Is there a video that introduces you? I'm finding your videos to have lots of new (to me) information, and look forward to seeing more of them. My Win. Mdl. 12 was made in 1936, 12 gauge, take-down, in nickel steel. The bluing has turned into a wonderful bronze patina. It's a fine gun. Ol' reliable! I bought it in 1998 when prices were more reasonable, and Winchester was still doing business in New Haven, Ct. Those were the days! Thanks! M.R.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hello and thanks for the message. I'm glad you found my channel. I'm just a collector, interested in history and mechanisms, especially guns. Your Model 12 is a brilliant design as you know. Many subscribers collect only Model 12s; so many variants. Please write me here or on Gmail : [e-mail] anytime. All the best.

[@kinguin7]

The stock on my Model 12 rotates a bit... Looks like the 1300 addressed that pretty well.

[@bobbob6162]

i agree, but are great in the time they were made.....Thank you

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good point.

[@davidsquall351]

Yup,cant beat old school steel

[@johnathonuncapher7523]

Unless you have new steel

[@dalanwanbdiska6542]

My bro is getting a 1300 Winchester 12 gauge and also mossberg 702 plinkster. Ill be getting another russian sks with bayonet. I cant wait for hunting season.

[@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888]

This isn't even a contest as to which of these two gun I like better. The Model 12 not only is solid steel, but it has hand fitting and the little details are taken care of. They are for all intents and purposes what would be considered a semi-custom or custom gun if they were manufactured today. The 16 gauge when done properly is shotgun bliss. I mentioned having a 97 Winchester in 12 gauge, but I also have one in 16 gauge. Both shoulder nicely, but the 16 is handier, shoulders more quickly, has a beautiful balance, and is just a treat to shoot. I know ammo is about twice that for comparable 12 gauge, but it has gotten easier to find in the past few years. While the Model 12 is known as "The Perfect Repeater" I think there is a good argument to be made that one in 16 gauge is The Perfect Perfect Repeater. Anyway, the example you showed above is an elegant shotgun in an elegant gauge.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

So Trapdoor - you cast a shadow over me....yet again....an 1897 in 16 gauge! You lucky duck! People I know have been looking for one....for longer than I can remember. The 1897 in 16 may well be - the ultimate collector classic repeater.

[@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I didn't intend to cast shadows over you. It is just that you happened to show an elegant Model 12 in 16 bore. The 16 gauge I mentioned has been in the family to the best of my knowledge since she rolled off the Winchester line in 39. A great uncle of mine used her to hunt pheasant and other quarry in South Dakota and she is still plugged to do so. There is some wear on the pump where he placed his hand which is really neat. Other than that and some of the other normal wear and tear along with an old recoil pad she is in excellent shape with no shortening of the barrel. The Winchester factory bluing on her is among the prettiest I have ever seen on any firearm. I wish the people that you know good luck in finding one. The "1897 in 16 may well be - the ultimate collector classic repeater," but a Model 12 in 16 is mighty tough to beat.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

I had a model 12 identical to the first one you were holding back in the mid '90s and ended up selling it because 16ga. shells got hard to find for it. If I'd have known they would become a collector's item I probably would have kept it, but being young all I knew was that finding shells was aggravating and just didn't care for something I couldn't shoot whenever I wanted to.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Perfectly reasonable thing to do. I've done the same, many times. I even sold my diesel car after awhile - great engine - but diesel stations were not as easily found. Maybe my diesel car is a collector now : I just wanted a car that I could find cheap fuel for. 12 gauge.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I think the Magnum craze of the 90s coupled with the new steel shot laws is what killed the 16ga., which is a shame because I found the 16 to be a moderate all purpose shotgun gauge. It's what I grew up shooting the most. Bigger than the 20 and just under the 12.

[@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888]

@@wizardofahhhs759 I agree with that, but I also would add that skeet being shot in the four gauges of 12, 20, 28, and .410 didn't do the 16 any favors.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

@@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888 That could be part of it too, I forgot all about the 28, haven't seen any of those on the shelves in years either.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

Do you hunt often or mostly just like guns? Great content.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Both - but I don't hunt as much as I used to due to time - like everyone else : ) Mostly deer and ducks now.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I know you don't have time for every comment but did you ever hunt elk, antelope or other Western big game? My channel focuses mostly on hunting and modern budget rifles. Your channel makes me want to collect some classic rifles.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Yes - Elk, mule deer, whitetails, black bear - all in the mountains. I'll go to your channel.

[@CandidZulu]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Do you live in the Rockies? I've spent some time in CO. Miss it every day!

[@pipedreams57]

I have 2 model 12 shotguns, both in 16 gauge, my favorite gauge of all time. I also have a few other pump shotguns and a few auto loaders. Nothing compares to the model 12. As for vent ribs, they are for people who cant shoot and have never carried a shotgun on a 14 hour hunt. Vent ribs are for the nerds and only make the gun harder to carry. The model 12 held 7 rounds which was great. The model 1300 was not great but not bad either.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi pipedreams57, The 16 is a fine gauge for sure; many people really like vent ribs and many people don't like them. Fortunately, there is a place for every opinion and preference - and person. : )

[@georgesouthwick7000]

They are rare, but there is a Winchester Model 25 pump, which looks exactly like the Model 12. The only difference is the Model 25 does not take down the way the Model 12 does.

[@AMF96]

Good to know. I have a model 12 featherweight and had seen a model 25 and wondered what the difference was.

[@davidcronin5689]

Dear sir is the Winchester model 25 the in between model from 12 to 1200,1300. I might have a date with a model 25.

[@matthewp7586]

I bought a Model 12 in 12 gauge today for 275 dollars. Modified Choke, made in 1941 in at least 90%. Not messed with, no pad or reblue. Its perfect. They also had a 20 gauge chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells made in 1939 in the same condition that I put on layaway. Total price for that is 345 dollars. Both guns were on consignment and sitting on the floor on a spinning rounder where the store doesn't even put the "good guns". It is utterly confounding to see the low price of these shotguns considering the build quality.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Oh my goodness. You hit it out of the ballpark! People have no idea. Those are gems and you bought them for feather prices. Good on you! You know, value always comes out. Your 2 shotguns are worth so much more than what is made these days.

[@JDW-ie1ht]

Hello, great video thanks. I just got a Winchester 120 Ranger, which from what I understand is a 1300 with less fancy furniture but with the same great-quality internals and 3" receiver. It was made in New Haven and has that classic look. I was considering the newer version, the SXP, before I found this but aside from the 120 being half the price, I also like the classic wood and the fact that it's USA made. It is in 95% condition and I paid $250. I am having the 28" barrel cut down to 21" and will probably get a mag extension, too, to make it a little more tactical for home defense. Does this sound like a good deal to you? Honestly, I've heard mixed reviews. Internet boards are not very friendly to this model or the 1200 or 1300. However, if it's the same as a 1300, it must be good from what your video says. Thanks again happy New Year!

[@richardnear4160]

I have two 120 Winchester rangers also. A 12 and a 20 gauge, both have 28" vent rib barrels, winchokes on both. And a 1300 slug barrel for the 12 gauge, still looking for a slug barrel for the 20 gauge

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@richardnear4160 Any problems with them?

[@richardnear4160]

@@guaporeturns9472 nope...no issues with them

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@richardnear4160 👍🏻thanks

[@avocado9763]

Is there a winchester semi auto shotgun as good as the model 12 ? Or any semi auto with tons of quality? Thank you.

[@FarionHorn]

M12 is great model! I wandering to get the Model 12 and especially the M1897 slamfire version models, but they are very rare and expensive in the local russian market, especially in 12 gauge (16 gauge is more common), and the condition is often very poor and rusty.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hello Efim B. - I hope you find a decent 1897 - that model is so interesting - as you know; and wonderful to shoot. Waterfowl hunting with an old 1897 is one of the best things I did - for sure The 1897 isn't a Benelli SBE - but somehow I like the 1897 better and the ducks were just as dead. All the best to you.

[@Bitis11nasicornis]

Im looking for a 16 gauge and 12 gauge model 12 in the future, mainly a 16 gauge. Its my personal favourite gauge that far too many have underestimated. But I have shot and been around 12 and 20 gauge model 12s tons, and I find 16 gauges for sale frequently, and all were slam fire. I find it rather odd your 16 gauge is not slam fire capable. However, I agree far too many go on and on and on about how cheap 12 or 20 gauges are, without realizing box for box, with the exact same loads, 16 gauge is only like $1 to $3 more then 12 or 20. Also, 16 gauge is now more popular than its been for a long time and ammo and firearm availability is way up. When it comes to shooting a 16 gauge, the legends are true, shoots and handles like a 20 hits like a 12 gauge. Birds go down harder with 16 gauge then anyother gauge I've hunted with. They are so pleasant to shoot and they have superior range to a 20 and have superior patterning to a 20 and 12 gauge. Federal and numerous other manufacturers are discovering this, barring the 16 gauge shell is loaded with 1oz or 1 1/8th oz of shot. I don't know if you've done a video on your top 16 gauge shotguns, but I'd love to know what they are.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good post - there is much to favor the 16 - I'll make a video and thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure why mine is not a slam fire - so many exceptions with firearms of all types.

[@Bitis11nasicornis]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thank you and appologies for the late reply, but yours may have been altered, or something is simply off. I just got my 20 gauge model 12 back and the gunsmiths to say the least assembled it improperly. I noticed sticking of the action due to barrel and tube mag being slightly misaligned, and it would have been difficult to say the least to make it slam fire. I will say this much, if yours is not a Browning Model 12, or post 1964 Model 12, you may have a rare variant. Also it being a 16 gauge just makes at the cooler.

[@theparalexview785]

I regret selling my Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga, 26" or 28" barrel with modified choke. I wasn't a very good wing shot with a shotgun (right handed, dominant left eye) and didn't use it much, other than for rabbits. It was beautifully crafted, with expertly machined receiver and carefully fitted parts. Prices have skyrocketed since I sold that shotgun in the early 2000s. Couldn't touch one now for the $200 I originally paid, mostly because 16 ga wasn't in big demand in the 1980s-2000. I kept a Remington 870 in 12 ga, but a good fer nuttin cousin stole it, along with some other items. A little later I replaced it with a Model 1200 or 1300 Defender in 20 ga with synthetic stock, just for home defense and maybe occasional hunting. But it's crude compared with the Model 12. The Model 12 ergonomics and action were far better, and even with long fingers I preferred the slimmer forend. The action was much slicker and more positive with less effort, and the single action bar never caused any problems. I see some videos proclaiming the Winchester Model 1300 as the best pump shotgun, and have to wonder how many shotguns the reviewers have used. It's crude compared with the 1990s Remington 870, although the Winchester Defender action is a little slicker than the 870. The Defender has a reputation for cracked welds where the action bars join the tube. And some internal components look cheap, although the bolt and receiver seem strong enough. It's adequate as a home defense shotgun. But nothing I've tried compared with the Model 12.

[@Berniessen]

I hear often single action bar shotguns are weak vs double,but wenn i look at the 1893/1897 winchesters those things seem to last forever with 1 action bar infact i never heard of being a weakness in anyway and i am sure there are some 1897,s that has some wild years of abuse over them...So i think if the design it okay it doesnt matter if it has 1 2 3 4 18 action bars the design makes it good or bad..

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

I like that Ben...1234 18 - I agree with you. I never had issues due to one action bar. The Ithaca 37 seems to run forever on one. I guess manufacturers like to refer to "binding" and breakage and maybe that has happened - just not to me.

[@wyldebill7248]

Is there a reason Iver Johnson shotguns are usually a lot cheaper than others? Just curious. Another great vid Sir,Thank You!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Yes - Wylde - people don't know how excellent they are.

[@stephenblackburn1387]

Just picked up two of his army issued 38 solid frame and 32 top break. I love old pistol but never heard of them.

[@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill]

Not sure if you would know or not, but I saw a Mossberg 500 that was all stainless, not coated, not chrome. It was stainless and the receiver was too. and noticeably heavier when I held it. Its the only one Ive seen, any idea on when that might of been made? Saw it at a Gun show, and to me it seemed more rare. Only one Ive ever seen anyway. I thought about getting it, but didnt.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

You've seen the only one I know of - from you : ) Must be very scarce. I'll see if any of my collector friends have heard of it.

[@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns It had black synthetic stock, and was stainless. I probably should of bought it for collectors reasons. It was a heavy shogun for much long walk field use. Be a good truck or boat guns perhaps.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

They should make a large run of them - the aluminum always looks so haggard after a short time - scratches through the anodizing and all.

[@patrickslevin6424]

I cut my teeth on Winchesters superb model 12. Had a couple of 20 gauges marked 1912 nickel steel barrel. My favorite was 12 gauge with a 26" cyl. bore barrel and one 30 inch full choke barrel. After I wore those out I eventually went to Benelli's Ultra Lite for pheasants...Super Black Eagle II for geese and a Franchi AL48 20 gauge for dove. I'm older and appreciate lighter guns.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

You always had fine guns! The Franchi 48 in 28 Ga. is one of my favorites - so light - for a few years I was after snipe and once in awhile actully got some. Their zig zag flight is something else. I'll have to do more wit the Benelli SBE - so popular in the marshes - and everywhere. I still like the Remington 1100. Thanks for writing.

[@burgknife758]

Just as rockhumper was saying no handguns? I would sure like to see your opinion on handguns .colts s&w ect .I have been really into astra lately I have picked up several I am curious as to your opinion on quality I think the build quality is there however maybe the finish is not up to par ?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

I'll get back to them. Just some medical issues derailed my wrists. Thanks for asking.

[@CandidZulu]

astral?

[@varmintdel1]

If they would make a 16gauge magnum I believe this cartridge would take off. The sweet 16gauge is the mama bear of shotgun calibers just right. 16 just feels better and handles better than a 12. If it was given the power of the 12gauge with a magnum that would make it popular again.

[@jakeoutdoors9600]

I have a model 12 in 12ga from my grandfather. Its a pretty early gun 1917 if I remember correctly. I have never fired it because I'm concerned about destroying it by shooting modern ammunition.

[@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888]

First, congratulations on having a really neat family heirloom. Secondly, you did the right thing in not shooting the firearm because of your uncertainty and concern when it came to what is the proper ammunition for the firearm. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people that have been injured/killed and nice firearms wrecked because they didn't do their due diligence in getting the correct ammo for a gun. My advice is that if you do desire to shoot it is to take it to a gunsmith to ensure that the firearm is safe to shoot. Also, have them confirm the chamber length of the shotgun. With that information known it is important to remember that older shotguns such as the Model 12 were designed to shoot lead. DO NOT USE STEEL SHOT!!! The use of steel shot will damage the gun. I hope that this information is of some assistance in getting your grandfather's Model 12 back in action.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Jake - I'm bad - and just use whatever shells are around. So far, I have not noticed any damage to any shotgun - but maybe I'm lucky. I think modern shells all use cup type wads - so mostly the shot never touches the barrel. I thought maybe the choke would make the pellets push through the cup due to constriction at the muzzle - but when I fetch the spent cups after shooting they are intact - with no "push though" - and are just a little gray and pock marked from where the pellets had been. Anyway, I could be wrong. The industry sold millions of new shotguns and shotgun barrels based on the fear of destruction due to steel shot. One has to wonder though - would gun manufacturers not have forced ammo makers not to make ammunition that destroys their products? And would there not normally be all kinds of litigation? Someone told me steel shot is softer than shotgun barrel steel. I guess everyone has to decide what is true and what isn't - and for what gun - on a gun by gun basis. Bismuth is nice - and there are others.

[@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I think you have been quite lucky. That might be due to improvements in steel shotgun loads or any number of other factors. Even so I do know that according to an article in Gun Digest it is Winchester themselves that says “Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke." gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/gundigest-070609-winchester-model-12-duck-gun While that could be lawyer speak, I have also asked gunsmiths if I could use steel in vintage shotguns and have been told no. Another way to view the use of steel shot is from an engineering perspective. The pre-64 Model 12 and the steels used in it were not designed to handle steel shot, but lead. This is important as steel shot is around 100 times harder than lead, can actually be as hard as some of the barrels in vintage shotguns and doesn't have the same ability to compress. So the Model 12 wasn't meant to handle a steel load, and thus is being pushed beyond what it was designed for when a steel load is used. Your question on "would gun manufacturers not have forced ammo makers not to make ammunition that destroys their products" is answered by the fact that they will bring out products that can destroy or damage older firearms. A case in point is that there are 45-70 gov rounds made that will load into a Trapdoor, but are actually not meant to be loaded in a Trapdoor. The results of such a round being fired in a Trapdoor is not pretty. The thing you bring up about litigation is interesting, except that their lawyers will say that the company never proofed or designed the gun for the use of that ammo. Their lawyers will likely also say that the gun is safe with the ammo it was designed to handle. Therefore, their lawyers will say that the company is not liable for the misuse of their product(s). For myself I have read some things where people got away with using steel in vintage shotguns and plenty of people who didn't. So I choose to just stick with lead in my vintage shotguns because I don't want to risk being in the latter category.

[@jakeoutdoors9600]

@@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888 I have many firearms but only one from my mothers father. It was the only firearm left after his home was robbed and he never purchased another gun after that. I think I will purchase lower power shells to hunt with his model 12. When he was alive he asked me a few times if I hunted with it and I always told him I was afraid of harming it because it was special to me. But he always seemed slightly disappointed. He's gone now but I would like to harvest at least one pheasant with it. I plan on passing it down someday.

[@jakeoutdoors9600]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns You have some very good points sir. You knowledge is far greater than mine. Its just that the gun is over 100 yrs old, I am not sure if the old nickel steel can handle modern loads. I have seen newly manufactured shells that are loaded to lower pressures. I may buy some of them. If it were a model 12 I bought from a gunshow I would not be concerned. But if I harmed this particular model 12, I'd never forgive myself. I do want to harvest a pheasant with it. Maybe for nostalgia? And thankyou for the reply.

[@Jay_Dee1911]

If the sweater was red I’d call you Ken Bone

[@thelastminuteman7513]

I mean steel receiver or not from an engineering standpoint wouldn't a direct lock up between bolt and barrel be preferable anyway? Correct me if Im wrong it just seems to be a better lock along with the fact you would have less wear and tear on the serialized part of the gun. It would be easier and more affordable to replace worn out bolt or barrel then have to go through the hassle of essentially buying a new firearm.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good thinking; I still like the bolt locking into the receiver though. The barrel has to be machined or a special machined locking collar attached to the barrel somehow in order for the bolt to lock into the barrel. The bolt locking into the receiver means that the barrel can be threaded and maybe an extractor cut on some models - and that is it. The receiver and bolt in the original system comprise one unit - and you can thread on just about anything - so long as headspace is right. Just a thought.

[@wholeNwon]

I have a couple of pumps but not my favorite action...just not proficient with them. Do have one Winchester, a model 50 and the only recoil-operated shotgun in my safe. Very effective but an odd action and a little more difficult to clean. It has never failed to operate correctly...so far.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

That's interesting - I also have the 50 - and it works perfectly.

[@vdan02]

Just FYI every model 12 is slam fire. Hold the trigger down and work the action, it will release the hammer without needing to reset the trigger.

[@larryhatfield7372]

FYI , no there not

[@garaldtao1801]

I give credit to Winchester for introducing an AR style locking bolt head in the 1300. Though the materials were less expensive than the model 12 for cost cutting measures, functionally the 1300 claim to fame was that I was a faster shotgun. Didn't Winchester claim that it was the fastest pump shotgun in the world? Well, Winchester is again using the same formula with their SXP. Now made in Turkey, the SXP retains the AR style locking bolt and have add some sort of pump assist that makes it almost like an semi auto. Winchester claims that the SXP is the fastest pump action ever and with an MSRP of $400 I think this modern iteration might warrant a part 2 of this video. Thoughts?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Gerald, You're ahead of me. I'm sure I don't know the details that you do, but I heard about the assist idea/mechanism in the Winchester and actually, the concept was around decades ago. Pump actions can be engineered to be "assisted opening" and there have been some interesting legal cases where a second shot was fired by a user of a pump action - who claimed that the shotgun reloaded itself - resulting in injury or worse. Resting a pump action forend on a sandbag at the range and firing normally will demonstrate this sometimes. Mechanisms can take advantage of this aspect of pumps and speed things up a bit. I didn't know the SXP is made in Turkey. Overall my thoughts are that pumps are fast enough. If semi speed is needed - one should get a semi. Further, I find that a slight delay between shots brings better results in the field. Especially hunters just starting out fire both barrels of an O/U or SXS in a millisecond and miss with both shots. They may think that pouring pellets out there as fast and in as great a volume as possible, is the thing. I usually fire, adjust, think, and fire again - all in a second or two. Attempting to drop 2 or 3 birds becomes less of a panicked SMG type experience and more like "aimed" fire - although one doesn't really aim a shotgun. I've seen plenty of semi shooters empty their 3 shots and the birds are unscathed and happily on their way. There are some cam accelerator patents out there, as well as pump stroke shortening force multipliers...but my goodness - the Model 12 is just fine. I've seen 3 birds fall many times with any of the classics - M12s, 870s, 37s etc... and the 1300s, Mossbergs, High Standards - all of them. Still, I like the rotating bolt head on the 1300s and newer models - but these are just new and cheaper ways to accomplish old tasks. All the best.

[@airbornesoldieramerica7125]

Seems like its not hard to find 16 gauge bullets, but almost impossible to find brand new shotguns in the 16 gauge these days. Only 2 guns companies I read recently will still make the 16 gauge shotgun is Stoger and Ithaca. Just also learned in past few weeks that Ithaca will even make a brand new 28 gauge if you request it.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

So odd what's happened to the 16. I didn't know that only 2 companies make them. Maybe there are more being made it Europe - the 16 was always more popular there.

[@airbornesoldieramerica7125]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Lately been doing a lot of research on the Ithaca model 37, which the new Ithaca factory is about 2 or 3 hours away from me, and after this years hunting season I am going to try to take a tour of it, and maybe buy a brand new model 37 at the same time. On some of those web sites of Ithaca they said only 12,20& 410 gauges only, like Win,Mossberg, Rem etc....now days and the past 35 or 40 years. Then other web sites from Ithaca says these new guns can be made in 12,16,20 & even the 28 gauge and 410 of course. If they are making the 28 gauge, would think for sure think they would make the 16 gauge. Then 4 or 5 years ago looked at this new Stoeger Condor over and under shotgun and they said that also comes in the old 16 gauge. Don't know for sure but I think some of these gun companies are taking advantage of this and knows that people will always want the 16 gauge. If I was a owner or a CEO of a gun company, think I would for sure be taking advantage of this.

[@richardfluke6327]

Is the 1300 considered a 'Slam Fire'??

[@maxwelm7408]

Can you please do a video on a 120 ranger Winchester

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Sure - that's a great shotgun - I'll make a video when I get one. Thanks for suggesting.

[@richardlarson6313]

I can’t wait to be disappointed!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

: )

[@dangerousfreedom4965]

Please do a 1200 vs 1300 defender

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Good idea - I have to find a Defender - I had one and then foolishly sold it. Thanks for sending.

[@dangerousfreedom4965]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns did you have a 1200 or 1300?

[@ChristiRich]

You may have ready said in a previous video or post, but what does USOG stand for?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hello ChristRich - United States of Guns and also, according to my valued Filipino viewers and subscribers - a psychological power or evil eye hex known in the Philippines as "usog."

[@ChristiRich]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thank you! :-)

[@douglaspollard4585]

Why didn't the model 8 you fire before some of your videos fail to completely eject the 3 Rd round? It should,was it not designed by the venerable John Browning? Maybe a too light load?(this is not a criticism at all)

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Douglas - good observation : ) I sometimes shoot slightly reduced loads. Also, a little Ballistol and they just about never fail to eject. Superb rifles and one of my favorites. All the best.

[@nakoawarrior3186]

There are many good pump action styles. Then there's the really fine ones with actions as smooth as butter. Call me a freak but I prefer a steel receiver. My friend has An 870 wingmaster,.....Winchester model 12,.........winchester 1897,....... and some Ithica 37's he bought the 870 and inherited the rest. I know some guns but I'm vague on others.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

You know a lot! And no freak - steel is steel and always superior; but heavy and expensive in materials and machining.

[@leviwoodring6101]

Ya got get your hands on the model 25.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Yes indeed : )

[@stephensmith4480]

Another three nice Shotguns Mike. Tell you what,there is no Global warming here,we have had snow for the last week!!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hey Stephen! Thank you - I'm relieved! Thanks for the good words.

[@christinamoneyhan5688]

Ware and rear gives a firearm character., just as long as it is not abuse. Let’s bring back the 16 gauge. It is a perfect shot gun and load.

[@mississippimoron9610]

My 16 model 12 is a slam fire and I love it for turkey

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Blain - how can a shotgun be that great!? - the 12 in 16 is not well known and hard to find; glad you own one! They all moved away from slam fire - yet these days a lot of people are looking for them. I like slam fire as well!

[@shahrozekhurram9836]

I just bought a new 1300 synthetic matt finish 91 production

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Perfect

[@shahrozekhurram9836]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns It's a 7+1 defender. A quick question though. Could you be kind enough to elaborate why the New Haven factory closed down if they were producing good firearms. I mean it doesn't make sense if they were making quality firearms and they were selling. And I noticed the fore end on my 1300 is a straight narrow, while other 1300 have a more narrowed at the end.

[@MrRbillharz]

Any information on the Ranger 120 Youth?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hello my friend - a useful, practical, dependable, fast and just about indestructible shotgun. I would buy one in a heartbeat.

[@MrRbillharz]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thanks!

[@maxwelm7408]

I do have 120 ranger in 12 not sure it’s the youth model. But I absolutely love it. Paid £100 and it’s multichoke and 3” magnum and it fits me well so definitely a keeper

[@mpett2]

How about mossberg? You need to add that one into the mix

[@CandidZulu]

And the Browning BPS!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi mpett2 and Robert - I agree with you both - I'll get to them. Excellent shotguns both.

[@TWI6Y]

I have a Model 12 Winchester it has a long barrel on it and it’s nickel steel

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Exc. Especially with that barrel

[@johnhawkins1067]

The Model 12 Winchester,, quite possibly the finest all around shotgun.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi John - As a machine the 870 sure runs like nothing else - but the 12 wins for "the" classic pump shotgun - and they run too. I took my 12 from the vault due to your note - an old one - so slick - easily the most hunting shotgun. All the best.

[@billygerbilly1277]

I did have 3 model 12 shotguns, all 12 ga.; gave the riot gun away to a relative. My home defense gun is a model 12 24" barrel IC with a vent rib and small duckbill. It was mfg in 1951. I didn't pay all that much for this odd example. The Winchester guns made after 1963, are in my opinion are all functionalist guns. There was no innovation in them, only less gun. Comments like"lighter" or "dirt cheap" give me the creeps. Buy the best when you can afford and take pride in it. My late father bought a model 12 in 1936 at age 16. My brother owns what's left of it and I'd wager still shoots.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Wise words.

[@clarkmarshall5304]

All my model 12 Winchester can slam fire , and my model 43 Marlin.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you Clark!

[@user-zx7iz7hz3d]

All model 12’s are slam fire

[@joeltowle2737]

I've never fired a Model 12, the Model 1300 is a speed pump! You can get rounds down range very quickly!

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Joe - you bet - the 1300 is super fast.

[@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929]

How exactly does the speed pump work? ive seen a couple of videos talking about how its super fast but I dont understand what it does that makes them faster than other pump actions.

[@therideneverends1697]

@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929 its basically half a semi auto, has the inerta mechanism just without the spring. If you take your hand off the pump and fire one they will generally eject the shell of there own will

[@winkydinkandyou]

What do you think of a winchester model 3000?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Michael - So sorry - I don't know that model.

[@nakoawarrior3186]

The winner would be a Winchester Ranger model 120,.......lighter than both the 1300 and model 12.

[@maxwelm7408]

I do Have one and absolutely love it

[@nakoawarrior3186]

@@maxwelm7408 I bought mine in 1980,... it got all of my deer.

[@dougcooley8150]

thats like comparing apples to chickens

[@duaneshouse1688]

I have a 16

[@daveybass655]

What is the 1200? Aluminum?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Davey - Yes - aluminum alloy.