Wing Chun: There is no Centerline Theory

[@mathewgonzalez1214]

You make learning Wing Chun very interesting. I’m studying Silat and Muay Thai from my Guru, there are so many arts I think about learning, and you make me want to learn Wing Chun.

[@WingChunHall]

You are very kind to say so. I hope you will one day.

[@section9809]

Yep. What he said! I have always described it as two cones, one upper and lower. The points of both are at the furthest reach of arms and legs in front of you, in a neutral stance. As the shoulders and hips define the outer limits, the furthest point of reach is directly level in front of these points. The chest,just under your chin and and the the top of the pubic area, centered between the hips, are the center of each base of the cones. These points align with the pivot point of arms and legs. The bases do overlap a bit . If you control the space in each of these cones, that is my interpretation of centerline. Remember, the furthest point of reach determines the point of the cone so it doesn't matter if you are in a neutral or foot forward stance. That only affects how much the off or rear hand can do. Ying/Yang is a way to explain use in foot forward stances. Kicks are usually treated like arms ie Bong Guek, Tan Guek, Jing Guek etc but only one at a time as you need one leg to stand on! Through stepping and pivoting, you can keep your your path clear to your opponent and using arms and legs, keep his path obstructed to you. Thanks for the vid and keep up the good work.

[@WingChunHall]

Thanks for the comment. I like your description. Cheers!

[@section9809]

Cheers for the reply. I forgot to add that to work the so called outer gates, you reverse the cones. The straight line from these upper and lower points on you to the same points on your opponent are the shortest distances to be travelled. Think two cones with their tips half way into each other. The control of the mid point on these two lines in these 3 dimensional spaces is where Wing Chun excels. While this may appear limiting to people trained in other styles, a Wing Chun player knows that this is literally the path to victory. Tai Chi does similar things but comes at it from a completely different idea and body alignments. That's conversation for another time. Thanks for letting me ramble on!

[@realherbalism1017]

You don't need all that crap. The best way to think of it that I have found is by using two concepts: The Motherline & the Centerline. The motherline is the actual axis that runs from the top of your head, through the center of your body, & down through your bottom into the floor. The Centerline is a vertical plane that connects your motherline to the opponents motherline. You should always face your opponent square because that gives you all available tools on the centerline & you should keep the opponent from facing you square so he cannot do the same. While attacking from behind would be a perfect centerline attack, it is more of an assassination attempt whereas if you move directly to the flank upon the very first sign of aggression, you can achieve positional superiority by keeping your centerline on the opponent while keeping his off of you. I can't speak for other styles of wing chun but the Ip Man system is perfect if properly applied. If you and an opponent's centerline face each other, you should only attack if you are sure he is weaker or less skilled than you. A strong opponent should be fought from the flank so that he can only bring to bear one or possible two weapons while you have all of yours. The vast majority of wing chun is not taught correctly at all. I absolutely promise you if you use this method you will gain superior positioning & have more weapons to bear than your opponent. This also limits his angles of attack so you do not have to guess where they are coming from, it will be obvious & the correct technique can naturally flow out for offense or defense.

[@Jameskeith1972]

Thank you for sharing this information. 😊

[@3DRCRACER]

This is another one I have to think about. My first thought was this is just a question of semantics. What we call something does not really change what is true. This is the kind of conversation that I think we need, I just have to do some translation to see if what I train agrees. At first glance I think it does regardless of what terms we use to describe points in space.

[@WingChunHall]

Always good to hear from you, Nick. I do believe that there are several ways to convey information, and just because someone does it differently from the way you do it doesn't make them wrong, but then again, some things are just wrong, like calling empty spaces, "gates." The remarkable thing is that Wing Chun students tend to pick up the information despite their teachers' confusing explanations. My remarks here weren't really meant for the students, but for teachers. I'm hoping to get the conversation going, like you mentioned.

[@3DRCRACER]

I am still thinking about this one. Some of what you talk about I recall my first Sifu mentioning similar terms. I am still trying to figure out if this is really just a semantic/terminology thing or not. I don't know that I agree there is no center line. I think that Wing Chun is kind of about understanding the space in front of you, and how to move through that space. To do that you have to have defined points in space understand where your wrist and elbow need to be. This is another one of those conversations that I think is a lot for just text on KZbin. It is more of a talk vs. type thing.

[@WingChunHall]

I agree that there is a centerline. In fact, there are lots of centers and lots of lines that pass through these centers. That's not theory. That's scientific fact. Any one of those lines can be called a centerline. I never meant to imply that there wasn't one. My argument is that we don't have a theory about these lines, and we need to be more precise in naming these lines to avoid confusion.

[@3DRCRACER]

Ok, I agree with this. there are lots of lines and one can infer a different meaning for 'center line' depending on point of view. In the lineage I train now we do address this. The terms we use may be different but one must understand the space in front of them and how to move in it safely. Terms may differ but the reality, or truth does not.

[@WingChunHall]

Well said.

[@krumbergify]

Maybe a better word is ”concept”, ”strategy”, ”system” or ”framework”. But no, Wing Chun is not ”scientific”, because it would involve predictions and proposed tests which can falsify the theory.

[@WingChunHall]

I like "strategy," or "approach." A theory does require predictions and falsifying tests, but that doesn't mean that a fighting system can't use science. I just think that if you're going to use science, you should learn to articulate it properly. Thanks for the comment.

[@tcbtcb7553]

MORE!!!!!!

[@WingChunHall]

Working on it.