Wing Chun Vs The Cult of Bruce Lee

[@RedSplinter36]

That was Teri Tom... not Shannon Lee. Teri Tom is a Ted Wong JKD student. Ted Wong being the last student of Bruce Lee. This particular camp of JKD pretty much supports that Bruce went away from wing chun as a whole and "discarded" it so to speak in favor of a more "kickboxing" and fencing like style. They don't even teach trapping so to speak anymore.

[@WingChunHall]

You're right, and I have noted the correction in the comments.

[@chrisbach1533]

Never posted here. The girl who speaks at 1:32 (i dont know her name right now) was a student and friend of the late Leo Fong. Nothing against them, but they arent neutral. Fong and the girl have strong backgrounds in Boxing, and Lee historian John Little made clear in a YT video ("Kung Fu Genius John Little Lee Real Fights") Lee didnt change his whole art after the Wong, Jackman[Jack-man] fight, that is a big misconception and Fong spread it many times too. Since they both (Leo Fong and the girl) coming from Boxing and love Boxing, they try to make it out like Bruce realized his whole WC is useless after the Jackman fight, and he threw it all away. Thats easy to debunk. Jackman run away what even his student David Chin admitted. But a couple years earlier Bruce defeated japanese Karate and Judo black belt Yoichi Nakachi in 11 seconds, breaking his skull with a kick, after bringing him down with Wing Chun punches. But contrary to Jackman, Yoichi wasnt a a coward and fought like a man. Nobody can beat someone fast who turns around and runs away. Leo Fong, the girl above and JKD people: "Bruce threw WC away after the Jackman fight". Lee historian John Little: "Thats not true. He only realized his stamina etc was bad, so he began to run etc."

[@ricardocastillo5485]

I studied JKD extensively in the 90's, then switched to pure Wing Chun as I matured as a person and saw with greater clarity. What you say here, I've been saying this for years.

[@WingChunHall]

Right. No hate to Bruce Lee, but let's not define Wing Chun from his limited experience.

[@davidwilliams4837]

A part of me is angry that Lee somehow co-opts Ip Man's name and becomes an "authority" and even "surpasses" Ip Man when Lee could not even finish the forms or even understand the true meaning of Win Chun. I see far more fencing and boxing as well as karate-style straight line, side-stance attacks. Lee borrowed from many forms including some grappling, yet people don't consider him a "boxer" or "fencer" or Tae Kwon Do authority. He mastered no style but his own. The same can be said of MMA. These men are athletes and fighters, but NOT martial artists.

[@realherbalism1017]

But Bruce DID finish learning Wing Chun, just not under Ip man. I refer you to the Kung Fu Report on this platform.

[@shadscott469]

Hi Sifu Jon, there is certainly a cult surround Bruce Lee. People tend to be tribalistic regardless. I don't recall Sifu Heimberger doing this but I heard a lot of misinformation about Bruce Lee coming from the St. George school. In my opinion it felt like there was an anti Bruce Lee sentiment during that time. I wanted to have an objective opinion on the matter so I set out to research everything I could find about Lee even going to first hand sources and compiling my finding using a venn diagram. It's likely that Bruce knew more Wing Chun than what is often stated. When he first came to the states he lived with a family friend--Fook Yeung who knew several kung fu styles--one of which was Red Boat Wing Chun. The narrative that Lee only came up with JKD because he didn't finish Wing Chun has some problems and is too simplistic because there were several phases he went through. According Ted Wong and Joe Lewis: towards the end of his life he was moving away from WC and more towards just fencing with his hands and feet. Glover in his book Between Jeet Kune Do and Wing Chun suggested that Lee was able to move away from sticky hands training because he was so quick he could just effortlessly move through someone's guard. It also feels like a lot people say stuff like "Bruce Lee only knew" or "Bruce didn't finish Wing Chun" to diminish him because he causes some WC practitioners cognitive dissonance. Now Lee appears to have been a gifted individual so what worked for him doesn't necessarily translate over to most of the population but never the less I don't see how finishing Ip Man's system would have changed the end result. He didn't need Biu Gee because he had moved away from classical kung fu styles.

[@joannakroupa9115]

Great comment

[@davidwilliams4837]

Bruce Lee as a martial artist can be respected. But he did not use Win Chun.

[@DanielShanahan]

I appreciate these videos. One comment, which may just be a personal preference: your B roll footage is too short. I’d rather have fewer B roll clips but have them up a few seconds longer. As it is, it moves too quickly before I can process what I am viewing. Just a preference. Thanks for making these videos.

[@WingChunHall]

Thanks for the comment. I'll work on that. Glad you like the videos.

[@3DRCRACER]

If I recall correctly BL trained Wing Chun to the Chum Kiu level under Ip Man. I believe he he also trained in TKD prior to his movie career. Many years ago I lent his book to a friend and never got it back, so I have not read it in quite a while. I totally agree that you can't teach something that you don't fully understand. I have also hear others express the opinion that BL was the father of MMA based on some of the comments in his book. Chuck Norris has a video or two posted on BL, but as they were friends he just more talks about that aspect of their relationship and not really martial arts. I don't know that I really fault BL for a lot of things. If you don't know the whole picture you tend to fill in the missing parts with what you do know or what you think fits. You just have to understand that you don't have the original, just your best guess at what the original should be. Just my opinion.

[@WingChunHall]

I wonder if Bruce Lee would have worked so hard if he had gotten Wing Chun easily, the way he asked for. Maybe his success was a direct result of Ip Man's refusal to allow Bruce Lee to film him doing the rest of the forms.

[@3DRCRACER]

That is one of those questions we will never know the answer to. I think a positive thing is that Bruce Lee inspired a lot of other people to learn more about Martial Arts and to study them. As a kid watching the movies I did not know the difference between one art and another, I just knew I wanted to learn how to do what I was seeing on the screen.

[@WingChunHall]

There it is: lots of good from Bruce Lee.

[@robertbozac4593]

:-) nice.