Wing Chun vs MMA | Avoid the Wrestling Takedown

[@jacobwatkinson875]

I have to say this channel demonstrates by far the most effective and applicable style of wing chun that I've seen on youtube. Your open mindedness to all styles of martial arts and the way you respond to critique are just exemplary, Bravo.

[@fightscience]

+Jacob 799170 thank you very much, that's very kind of you to say and I really appreciate your words. It makes all the hard work worthwhile.

[@lestermitchell8448]

In my opinion jujitsu/wrestling compliments wing chun nicely. The concepts are similar. Control the center. I've noticed the best way to deal with grappling situations is to train grappling against real resisting people. This is coming from a Wing Chun guy.

[@annaeembinannahari2516]

Lester Mitchell Hello there. I don't train in wing chun, my opinion is that it has not proven itself to be effective (in my opinion). But i'm wondering, what do you get in terms of the benefits of learning wing chun? What are the positive take away or the values of you learning it?

[@pascal0868]

Thanks Mark. As someone old who deals more with overdrafts than under hooks wing chun provides a family guy with no athleticism some chance of defending himself and family. Kudos for adapting to modern threats. Wing chun was always evolving as per what Yip Man and his senior students did. Some of us don’t have time or energy to learn wrestling, BJJ etc to be an ultimate fighter. It can take just one injury to age someone prematurely. I hurt my back in my twenties. Never the same again.

[@DrewFace507943]

great video! As a wrestler and a wrestling coach this is the closest I've seen to a striking discipline understanding Wrestling and how to deal with the threat it presents to stikers. Great video!

[@fightscience]

+DrewFace507943 Thank you kindly, Sir. One thing for sure is that most stand up fighters won't have the conditioning to handle a good wrestler and this is the critical difference in applying these ideas. Concepts are fine, but application is key. Perhaps that's why Wrestling is now a key component in MMA today. Wrestling is a great discipline and deserves much more recognition here in the UK. Thank you for watching.

[@Isa-wz5qm]

Fight SCIENCE how much wrestling and bjj a week should one train, especially with WC I can only do one day a week the rest clashes with WC

[@AudreyYun]

when he connects that's already too deep and a good wrestler has probably taken you down before you can react with anything. teach them how to sprawl and scramble (which is best taught with actual wrestling)

[@fightscience]

+Audrey Yun sure no problem, we'll teach Wing Chun guys how to sprawl in a follow up video. Maybe, just somehow, we can relate the sprawl to the theory of 3 Wing Chun barriers that we were discussing in this video. Although this doesn't relate to sprawling, but guess we can work around it. Thanks for watching.

[@nightsbane79]

+Fight SCIENCE will definitely look forward to that video! thanks for the great vids!

[@kobiesboxing4956]

Audrey Yun But in a real street fight can you sprawl on concrete, and can you sprawl against an opponent that's much larger & stronger. I mean in m.m.a. sport or college wrestling your opponent is your size, and the floor is not solid, but in real life it's not always the case. So like I said before can sprawling be done under those real life situations.

[@loserscantseecomment]

Kobies Boxing yes you can sprawl on concrete. Have you ever sprawled before lol?

[@mjpena6274]

Cool

[@Jazzman-bj9fq]

I think this technique for preventing a shoot attack is very important for any martial artist especially for the 'stand up' striking arts. Other than the sucker punch or the haymaker punch, a football tackle or leg takedown is going to be the most prevalent thing you'll face from a street fight.

[@secohen73]

This is great, Sifu Mark. This is something I work on quite a bit and I'd love to see more of your ideas on the subject. Great work, as always.

[@TFGhunter]

Nice video! Totally agree with the "controlling the head" part. I also found that useful.

[@fightscience]

TFGhunter Thanks. Not sure if we put enough emphasis that the converse is that you shouldn't allow someone to control your head if you want to avoid being taken down.

[@AceofDlamonds]

when a wrestler connects he is often already too deep. I dont there is a reliable distance control as opposed to learning how to survive the ground or simply avoiding the action itself

[@HECTORARTUROA]

you can avoid tte action itself controlling distance.

[@AceofDlamonds]

​@@HECTORARTUROA you can try....

[@richcraccbaby4509]

Man this one of the coldest videos i done seen❄️💪🏿

[@anthonyposer7440]

Sifu Mark, your knowledge, skill and ability is incredible. But it's your charisma, charm and sense of humour that make these videos so wonderful to watch. Thank you.

[@fightscience]

Thank you Sir. That's very kind of you to say.

[@larnizzo91]

So what I got from this is: Keep your back straight hips forward. While creating distance By backing up and pushing on opponents head. Breaking their structure while maintaining yours. Personally Not great at grabs (fancy arm twisting stuff near the end) but the rest was extremely informative. Thanks.

[@HECTORARTUROA]

good pupil

[@MilkoOfficialChannel]

I don’t agree with the straight heaps fwd at all

[@chrispiggott8386]

thank you for putting up a useful video for your students. So many videos on here that seem to deny that grappling is a real threat.

[@fightscience]

+Chris Piggott Grappling is more of a threat than many would consider. Just the sheer physical conditioning alone, aside from a fantastic approach to controlling a human body. You have to respect wrestling as a credible fighting system. You only have to look at level elite MMA. Thanks for watching.

[@chrispiggott8386]

I am a career martial artist. and MMA trainer. it was a nice change to see grappling not just simplified

[@alexanderreidhinchcliffe774]

excellent video. good quality, well put together, ace content, thanks.

[@fightscience]

Alexander Reid Hinchcliffe Thank you for the kind words.

[@dennisthornton9232]

Excellent instruction and wisdom. thank you

[@TheMylittletony]

This is the first time I see a wing chun guy showing takedown defence that makes sense. Ironically, he's using techniques similar to wrestling.

[@nohbdy1122]

+TheMylittletony Indeed it is similar to wrestling, but the fact hat it's similar to wrestling has nothing to do with Wing Chun. He explained his techniques in the video purely in the terminology and concepts of Wing Chun(structure, three barriers, etc) and that alone is what makes this method classified as Wing Chun. Wing Chun is more than a style; it's a concept.

[@theodorewurz8424]

Don't you think wrestling is the best style to defend against wrestling takedowns? Why reinvent the wheel? If someone shoots, you sprawl, crossface, whizzer, maybe get an underhook, learn to ride because they will chain their takedowns. If you want to defend against a wrestler, learn how to wrestle. Wrestling is fundamental to all fighting and will make any style work better. Sanda/ Sanshou, yes, those are useful under that rule set, but what is being shown here is not realistic.

[@fightscience]

+Theodore Wurz yes I do, that's why I also wrestle, train Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. In fact it's been nearly 18 years of grappling for me. Unfortunately most Wing Chun people are not as open minded, so we tried a simple guide that relates to WC concepts to help these people unwilling to cross train. Thanks for watching.

[@theodorewurz8424]

I just can't understand why Wing Chun people still aren't open minded enough to cross train when the proof is out there. There is no perfect style, everyone needs to cross train.

[@fightscience]

+Theodore Wurz completely agree, that's why we cross train extensively. Perhaps it's human nature people seem to need to believe that what ever martial art they invest their time is the best. It's a form of justification. Truth is that there is no perfect martial art or even one style fits all. If there was we would all be doing it. Hence you do need to cross train to fill in the gaps and understand what everyone else does. Re: wrestling I think it's a great addition to any martial arts skill set. Thanks for watching.

[@thierrylagrin6137]

This is a valid point!

[@HECTORARTUROA]

+Theodore Wurz +Fight SCIENCE is not MMA people closed minded about Wing Chung too?

[@PTS.MT.Goalie.BJJ.Andrew]

I hope one day we see some wing chung mma guys in the top mma organizations. So far I never herd of one.

[@fightscience]

JiuJitsu9 Agreed, it would be nice to see, but it is unlikely to ever happen. The reality is that people don't join Wing Chun schools to compete in MMA. They are often ordinary people looking for simple self defence techniques to protect themselves and their families. Compare this to the elite combat athletes in the top MMA shows and there is a big difference in mindset. as you know, these athletes start off with competitive combat arts such as Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing and Kickboxing and then progress to MMA.

[@blahblahyou22]

Isn't Jon Jones' knee kick a form of Wing Chun?

[@PTS.MT.Goalie.BJJ.Andrew]

yes but he is primarily a wrestler when he started. Just his striking was mostly from muay thai dvd's from the beginning lol

[@PTS.MT.Goalie.BJJ.Andrew]

I'de have to disagree, most people in my school do not compete nor are athletic. We are mostly a pure Brazilian jiu jitsu school on top of that.

[@TheChurchIsLikenUntoTheMoon]

mcGregor uses jeet kun do

[@danroley7850]

creating the 'rising' arm to merge with 'head' control.. brilliant.. simple.. very understandable. thankyou Sifu Mark.

[@fightscience]

Thank you Dan. Glad to see you are enjoying our range of videos. Even the old ones like this. Have a great day, Sir!

[@danroley7850]

@@fightscience your Wing Chun is street tested right here in Indianapolis.I am facing pansies but 100s of pansies do present an african massacre for me.. If ! if i fall or Fail. your Training is World Champion training... 1 day we will set my story down for your exam.. Go On Forward. rwandaprivatesecurity. Africa Operations.

[@kamin76]

Great tips as ever, Sifu Mark. Coincidentally, we were doing takedowns with Sifu Abid just last week, so looking forward to applying some of your advice :)

[@fightscience]

Kashif Amin Well you have some excellent guidance from Sifu Abid, he's a great Sifu!

[@kamin76]

He certainly is :) Would love to meet Sifu Mark at the Midlands branch at some point.

[@worldrecord123]

Very useful video! and as a student of Sifu Mark Phillips at the London wing chun academy for the last year, I can say that his depth of Knowledge is second to none, and these videos show only the surface of his expertise in which he has built over 30 years of dedication to his craft

[@fightscience]

Dan Mal That's very kind of you to say Dan, thank you very much.

[@staywoke4memes]

Good video. A style that's not afraid to adapt to different methods of fighting reflected in today's world is one worthy of study.

[@fightscience]

+Jourdahn David Thank you, Wing Chun is a martial art style where the concept of adaptation is key to making it work. Thank your for watching. Have a great day.

[@parisperkins6084]

I am an Independent MMA fighter and I must say your videos help me transition my traditional attacks into sport, if you get what im saying. I use it for my jeet kune do and my tiger claw techniques when training for my fights..Thank you Sifu from Baltimore, MD

[@fightscience]

Paris Perkins There's been a small resurgence of traditional martial arts techniques in MMA, especially the UFC. Some of the top fighters in the UFC are using spinning Taekwondo kicks to great effect. Just look at Conner McGregor for example he has a great game with aspects of a traditional martial art. So stick with it, I'm sure if you think outside the box you can build a good repertoire for MMA. Good luck with you MMA fights.

[@Jessestewart12]

Thank god someone from the wing chun community is talking about... Well done

[@fightscience]

+Jesse Stewart It's something that needs to be spoken about in Wing Chun. Many people that claim to train traditionally by default may not have a traditional response to a modern day method of fighting. Thanks for watching.

[@jofferbathan9401]

I was expecting some bullshit, but then I realized that I do all of these stuff on Grappling and MMA. Nice video! Very informational! Thumbs up!

[@fightscience]

+Joffer Bathan thank you for giving this the time of day. It's much appreciated. To be honest, the sprawl is the best way, but this is just some conceptual ideas that the average Wing Chun student can relate to. Have a great day. Thanks again. 😊

[@VTSifuSteve]

Pleasant surprise here. Unlike a lot of WC anti-grappling, you show some solid stuff, clearly explained from a WC perspective, and tested with guys who can actually wrestle. I wrestled as a youth and have been in WC since '79. Wish more people taught like this.

[@fightscience]

+VTSifuSteve Thank you very much for the kind words, Sir. It means a lot coming from a real veteran of Wing Chun. Completely agree that more in the Wing Chun community should take a practical approach to testing and refining skills. Thanks again.

[@jdvincler]

I agree. It was a good video. I like that he acknowledged in comments the importance of Jiu Jitsu, because the bottom line is if these techniques don't work, and they rarely do 100% of the time, now you are on the ground with a potentially skilled ground fighter.

[@fightscience]

+jdvincler Nothing works 100% of the time. The reality is that you have to practice techniques that work against the majority of people in the majority of situations. Even then you still need to have the ability to adapt with other movements to the changes in the situation or fight. Thanks for watching.

[@mervinmarias9283]

I like the concept of breaking your opponent's structure and dominating one arm. It is extremely difficult to complete a takedown with a single arm.

[@evangrover8414]

Great video!!! I had an old friend in undergrad that studied Wing Chun and I grew up wrestling and boxing. I always told him that a ground game can win any fight, and I he realized that as well. I'm glad to see your martial art adapting to what mma has revealed is effective in trained combat. If I may offer one critique, on your third defensive method where you hipped in and stayed up straight, that is playing into what a wrestler wants, which is your hips. Maybe you should apply a pure sprawl where your chest drops right on your opponent's head, knock and shoulder blades, and your hips and legs go back as fast as possible, away from his control. Grab head control and throw knees at the head. With a good pure sprawl, even if you do get taken down, you will be low to the ground so your opponent can't slam you on your head. Also a cross face can help by using your arm on the side of the wrestlers face to pry the man off at least one leg during a sprawl. I am really impressed with your video overall. I'm just trying to give you some ideas from a wrestler.

[@fightscience]

+Evan Grover Thank you very much for the advice and it is taken well. A sprawl is by far the best defence, but we thought we would try to relate concepts that Wing Chun students should already be aware of. Many Wing Chun would find sprawling an alien concept and then there is the added problem of teaching how to recover from this position. Having said that, the best advice for Wing Chun students is to learn some grappling or simply go train with grapplers. No amount of theory will replace actual experience. Thank you very much for your advice, it's much appreciated. Have a great day.

[@austingohofficial]

Take down is ok but in the street striking is the only option

[@fightscience]

Agreed. Striking in the street is a better option, but striking doesn't always stop take downs especially if the wrestler is striking as well. Thanks for watching.

[@erice5025]

Thank you very much for your video. Much realistic and honest then traditional wing Chun

[@fightscience]

+Eric e thank you, we try to keep our content honest and open.

[@Lytsout193]

This is good! A Wing Chun that has adapted, I like it

[@fightscience]

+Lytsout193 Thank you, adaptation through testing is important to any martial art, but more so in Wing Chun. Thanks for watching. Have a great day.

[@spinEbO]

It's not adapted... It's from a lee shing lingeage.

[@joaquindelarosa1215]

I believe wing chun was always meant to be adaptive. What most people think of as wing chun are just drills. The application of them had to be practiced thru sparring and ones own creative spirit.

[@gwine9087]

There is an old (American style) football lineman's rule: "control the head because the body must follow".

[@brazenbull5501]

He shows videos on the “how to do it” but I’m yet to see him do it for real. It’s easy to defend against a takedown when you know what it’s going to be beforehand

[@Penanpeople]

In sleeping dogs (video game) there is a display of wing chun vs mma that excellently demonstrates what you are teaching.

[@fightscience]

wow, that's really cool. All we needed now was a cameo appearance ha ha...

[@teacake4922]

Fantastic! Great ideas and good technical explanations. This is brilliant for Wing chun people and deserves to find a broader audience too. Really like the way it is definitely wing chun and at the same time finding new applications. Top job!

[@fightscience]

Ralph Lee Thank you again Ralph. Just some simple Wing Chun concepts in application. We think that how you train Wing Chun should adapt to the ever changing modern martial arts world. It doesn't mean that you have to forget the traditional methods of Wing Chun training, but simply be more versatile in application against modern and developing fighting styles. Thank you again.

[@fightscience]

How to avoid being taken to the ground in #martialarts #wingchun #mma #sanda kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5W6m3R7ad6eo7M

[@joesiu7684]

9

[@cutthatcity]

So what you're saying is if you want to defend a takedown learn to wrestle. This has nothing to do with Wing Chun.

[@fightscience]

cutthatcity Basically, yes. You can't possibly learn how to defend a takedown if you've never trained against a takedown or wrestling shoot.

[@virgilio514]

The London Wing Chun Academy You are the first wing chun guy I have ever seen admit that! Very impressed with this video and your approach.

[@fightscience]

+Oberyn Tyrell Thank you. We do believe that it is important to be open minded enough to evolve the way we train Wing Chun. Thanks for watching.

[@nohbdy1122]

+cutthatcity Well yes that is absolutely true but that doesn't mean it has nothing to do with Wing Chun. He explains in the video have everything he shows how to deal with the wrestling takedowns in within the principles of Wing Chun(structure, three barriers, etc.). Wing Chun is more than a style; it's a concept.

[@fightscience]

+Nohb'dy 11 Absolutely, Wing Chun is conceptual and therefore adaptable. Thanks for commenting and watching.

[@mbahdj]

very nice. very good combination ...

[@fightscience]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@kodaspaws]

You're so close to brilliance that it's actually frustrating. If this wasn't a public forum I'd explain why, but you can see in the video how ( although you're so right ) the technique or solution just doesn't work.

[@fightscience]

+kodaspaws ok, thank you. I'd be happy to accept any help and advice. So please feel free to comment. I'm always eager to learn something new, which I can't say for many people these days. If you have a video please post or simply reply with the details. Thanks fr watching, have a great day my friend.

[@kodaspaws]

Against better judgment I'm gonna point out the issue I'm seeing. The premise is that once your opponent gets through your guard, the wrestling takes over and he scoops the legs and drives forward. A standard technique, millions of people are taught this. Ok. So your solution is to control the head, and shoot one leg backward, to widen your stance. Its a good idea, but then the wrestler just adjusts his attack and scoops the remaining leg. If you push down on his head, you get luck maybe, but more often you just add mass to his position which actually makes him more stable. It slows his forward momentum a little but your leg is right there so he has no need to move forward. So, because I'm a nice guy I'll explain. What you need to do is match force and mass. When he drops to scoop the legs, you drop your centre and shoot both legs back. The energy comes from the hips, and hands as you use his shoulders as a fulcrum ( since this is UFC rules ) that way your upper body is on top of his head. Now if this were the street, what you need to do is the same technique but instead of the shoulders, you press against the nose, the clef of the lip, or eyes, the pain from those nerve points will be enough to stop him from advancing. But this will help pry your body out from his grip. Or there is a vicious neck crank but I'd rather not try to explain that online. Its not graceful, but it works. Before you say it, I know, you aren't up right....You can look at this way, he got your legs, he's driving froward with his whole body - you weren't going to be up right for long.

[@fightscience]

+kodaspaws thanks for the response, I don't disagree with your description of the defence and analysis that a good wrestler will drive for the next leg. In fact, a really good wrestler would turn the corner to off balance you which would probably rend the head control useless. Leading to the capture of the second leg. What you have described, is a sprawl, which is pretty standard in wrestling and grappling training. However, the real point of this video is to help the average Wing Chun practitioner understand some of the basic concepts within their style that might help them defend a shoot. Many of these guys can't or won't be able to sprawl as it's simply not in Wing Chun to do so, This video gives them some alternative advice that may help, at the very least it may get more Wing Chun guys grappling and learning from experience. Head control involves pressing the crown of the head so that it removes a straight line of spine, of course it may not slow the drive down, but you still have the sprawl to fall back on if you are willing to learn some grappling. Thank you for your comment. Have a great day.

[@kodaspaws]

Oh I understand the purpose of the video is to help the wing chun practitioner. But in your explanation your solution is to push your hips toward your attacker, then step aside. I can tell you that THAT WON'T HELP. It helps your attacker. By stepping high, and pressing your hips to your attacker you narrow your stance, then you're on your head. And I'm sure that that doesn't help anyone. Further more, your arm bar ??? had no real leverage or control of the limb. But I understand that the video is more about position and creating space. And you're right, that seeing the attack coming is the best way to avoid the attack and getting scooped. However, you still get scooped eventually. Once your attacker has your legs at the thighs, the best way to escape is to shoot your hips straight back pressing against your opponent as I mention. If you want to apply it more for WingChun then I suggest a strike to the bridge of the nose while wedging the head away from the hips. You could use your elbow if you like. Also, don't forget about just kicking the guy once you step off line. Remember, he's at a disadvantage now that he's on his knees. It's just my take on it, I'm not tryin' to troll you. I've found a lot of your videos really insightful, and progressive for WingChun. Its a method i've been investigating recently. Carry on.

[@fightscience]

Ok, fair points and I will take the constructive criticism. Bare in mind that I am not saying that you just hip forward, but you hip forward and sprawl your legs backward. Although, I have acknowledged that a sprawl to flatten the shoot works better. We both agree on this point. As for the last stage, I can vouch for the leverage of the wizzer, figure of four, combined with head pressure. It works fine for our Submission Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and San Da (San Shou)/MMA teams in competition. Thanks for the conversation, I haven't taken it personally, so it's all good. Have a good day.

[@Agent77X]

Wing Chun is the most powerful of all self defense martial arts! With Wing Chun you can fight off 10+ MMA UFC heavyweight attackers at once!

[@TacticalOrbitalTaco]

I came here ready to shit on this. Wing Chun guys stalking about wrestling and grappling is usually hilarious. But then I see people actually wrestling and sparring. Good job. Thumbs up from me.

[@fightscience]

Thank you very much. I can understand why you would think "Not another Wing Chun video". But compared to many Wing Chun schools we actually do embrace the grind here. Our grappling team is actually coming on nicely. We love wrestling/grappling. Thanks for watching.

[@darkspawn88]

Very useful thank you

[@fightscience]

Thank you for watching.

[@redskiller37]

quality clear and logical

[@fightscience]

+redskiller37 thank you very much, please feel free to check out our other videos on our channel. Have a great day.

[@billbirchman362]

What about a vicious, violent ear strike to his right ear? Every time he came in that was open. Or are you wasting time with that to do the other better things you're saying with the pushing away and leg drop, etc?

[@grumpyae86]

Nice video. I'm not a wing chun guy.. Actually a jiujitsu guy but i quite enjoyed this. All the best

[@fightscience]

grumpyae86 Thank you for your kind words, it's much appreciated. Thanks again for watching.

[@spinningbacksidekick]

Impressive, very nice. Now show me you doing it at full speed with a college wrestler or jujitsu blue belt who isn't a student at your school.

[@seanlamberson6334]

Hello, Sifu Phillips! I have benefitted much from your videos, so thank you. I am curious to know about any either chin na or grappling techniques used in wing chun. I have caught glimpses here and there, but am still curious to learn about any grappling moves that fit with the methodology of wing chun. Thanks!

[@fightscience]

+Sean Lamberson thank you very much Sean for the kind words. Realistically there are very few Chin Na schools anywhere in the West these days. Sadly many Traditional Martial Arts are dying our due to the popularity of MMA. Perhaps try to find a traditional school that offers Chin Na as part of their classes. This is more likely than finding a pure school. Thank you again. Have a great day. 😊

[@marcsl1974]

thanks for sharing. this video is very useful.

[@fightscience]

Thank you. We try to share practical advice and useful information. Especially when it comes to applying Wing Chun. Thanks for watching.

[@numerouno3521]

Great video! I’m so tired of hearing about bro Rogan and MMA gracie jiu jitsu Had to say it! 😂😂 I’ve trained in wing chun (tsun) Leung ting / Chris Chan lineage for long time I still remember sifu Chris and Leung saying “”brazil jiu jitsu is a waste of time, it’s a fad that will fade out”” “Wing chun can crush them very easily” What are your thoughts on this?

[@zackstone1347]

Uh so when he does get the side mount, gaurd, triangle,rubbergaurd,rear naked choke ect...how does tan pak or bongsoa work? Most wing Chun guts don't get to train with pro grappler mma guys. Often there in a illusion that they can anti grapple.

[@wowzers9270]

What if they got you off the ground and about to flip you down what to do? What if you're being mounted? What if you're on the ground?

[@mr.orangeaide5260]

bjj. though im sure theyll have some idiot trick to get them off you. they always do. they never have one that works, mind

[@mrchaotiq]

Theoretically this advice seems sound, pragmatically speaking though I don't think it would be effective against a good grappler. Grapplers tend to chain take downs together and it would become very overwhelming for someone lacking any fundamental grappling training. The best way to counter grappling is to become proficient in it yourself and incorporate into a system that works for you.

[@avenewconsulting1118]

audrey yun is right and maybe with the power when he enter, you loose your balance to push back

[@salimras123]

This was fascinating to watch. I'm 1 year into training Wing Chun and am about to start BJJ. How well do WC and BJJ concepts work together? It is easy to flow between them?

[@fightscience]

+Salim Ras these martial arts compliment each other well. I'm sure you will enjoy the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Definitely add it to your game. Have a great day.

[@salimras123]

+TYRION LANNISTER I've gone for 2 BJJ lessons so far and yes, I absolutely agree! Wing chun concepts work surprisingly well in BJJ sparring. I've even had several sparring partners ask if I've trained BJJ elsewhere before, but nope, all wing chun baby.

[@mr.orangeaide5260]

one of thems actually useful and the other one is wing chun, so no?

[@salimras123]

Mr. Orangeaide Tell that to my BJJ sparring partners and my superior grip fighting. I owe that to wing chun.

[@mr.orangeaide5260]

Salim Ras id be suprised if wing chun is what built that.

[@EJAVAM07]

Have you and Mox ever done chi sao together?

[@LilYoungDaddy]

Instead of adapting some dumb Wing Chun methods for takedown defense, why not just use the methods that are already in place, ie: study wrestling defense? It doesn't have to be complicated. Just practice defense for wrestling, judo, sambo, etc. Then before you know it, you're doing MMA.

[@fightscience]

I appreciate your point of view, in fact that is exactly what we do here. However, I don't think the majority of other people that study Wing Chun are willing to learn to Wrestle (or other forms of grappling) in order to learn how to defend a takedown. Therefore adaptation of current Wing Chun techniques are necessary for these people. Afterall the central concept of Wing Chun is the ability to adapt. Otherwise they would be doing MMA instead of Wing Chun. Thank you for watching and commenting. Have a great day.

[@LilYoungDaddy]

+The London Wing Chun Academy I can respect that.

[@abrahamceballos8291]

+Fight SCIENCE i honestly dont like wing chun. However, your open mind and true humble nature make you a ttue master. Congrats! Also if people are going to learn wing chun an individual like yourself would be a great teacher.

[@johnwillingham277]

why not take wing chung a step foward and try to advance it ?

[@jacksmith4460]

i like what you are doing here respect , keep it up :D

[@fightscience]

Thank you very much for the kind words and support. It makes it all worthwhile.

[@Grrrrr12389]

When u grabbed his arm and pushed him down u could go for a kimura possibly an arm bar but the arm bar will be harder

[@fightscience]

+Hanif Hafedi Yes it is possible to mix submission wrestling with San Da, but for training it is best to focus in order to perfect one area at a time. Thanks for watching.

[@geraldmrubin]

Nice application of wing chun. One's ability to counter a take down is not only dependent on technique but also the ability to absorb the initial assault. I am still trying to understand how the use of range applies to wing chun generally. You discuss this but it is still hard to understand. Wing chun is most effective in the trapping range, which is in between MMA boxing and grappling ranges. What ways other than elbows can trapping range be used to an advantage.

[@fightscience]

Gerald Rubin Thank you Gerald. Yes Wing Chun is generally considered at it's best in trapping range, but we do need to move beyond this expertise, after all you can't always expect the fight to come to you in order to use the trapping skills of Wing Chun. In my view you have to be able to manage all ranges of a fight regardless of the style of martial art you practice. Otherwise there is no real validity to your method of fighting. As for your question on trapping range. I think sticking (as in subduing the arms) and using close quarter attacks such as Chi Gerk with knees are effective. Of course, it's not important what I think. So, I would love to hear what your opinion is? Indeed, if anyone else (who joins this thread) has an opinion?

[@zark212]

Gerald Rubin Footwork. Not only bridging the gap with hands and elbows for trapping but good footwork to hinder the opponents mobility and trap there legs as well. Chi Gerk- Sticky Legs

[@henriquecoelho7977]

+The London Wing Chun Academy then it can be called... MMA. No?

[@fightscience]

+Henrique Coelho I'm sorry I don't follow your comment? Are you saying Wing Chun could be MMA?

[@henriquecoelho7977]

No, My excuses: You tube wrotte the academy name all by itself! What I meant was: When one trains several Martial Arts, then the training is efectivelly...MMA! No? :) Have a good day!

[@DareToWonder]

No decent wrestler will let you get the leg he has away or not go for the other leg. On the other hand u can always attack the back of his head if its a street fight.

[@thac0twenty377]

Learn a wizard. know how to stuff the head. know a sprawl.

[@icedmocha6670]

MMA for me just street fighting + wrestling, bjj...with some boxing....seems more like bar brawl, school bullies scene rather than mix martial arts bout...

[@paullytle246]

Iced Mocha watch overeem fight or cro cop or cung lee watch for the guys with striking backgrounds

[@amenhorusset9129]

good video

[@fightscience]

Thank you for watching.

[@natelandherr5202]

Master Wong says he's open to a collab. Your thoughts? Btw maybe he can weigh in on the subject. (Probably best way to counter anything is hitting it in the balls)

[@christopherpeoples583]

What country your in, I wouldn't mind training there

[@bradpack9340]

I like it it's logical because if you go to fight a wrestler with wrestling and you're not a wrestler you will get your ass handed to you

[@fightscience]

Bradley Pack Of course, that's what they do best. Perhaps its more about understanding the tools that you have in your specific martial art or style of fighting that would be useful. It may not always work, but it is a start.

[@k.padraigokane1472]

With all due respect, this is simply not Wing Chun. I suppose you can do what you've done, and use Wing Chun terminology to name the hand positions etc., but what you doing is grappling/wrestling/jiu jitsu. I taught Wing Chun (Moy Yat) for quite some time and I also practice Gracie Jiu Jitsu (since '97). Ironically, we reviewed this exact defense today! I appreciate your presentation, but what I see isn't WC.

[@fightscience]

+K. Pádraig O'Kane since when has Gaan Sao and Laan Sao not been part of Wing Chun. Surely Moy Yat would of taught these ideas to you? Congratulations on training Gracie Jiu Jitsu, much respect to you. Well done. Have a great day my friend. Thank you for watching.

[@k.padraigokane1472]

What I was trying to say was that appropriating Gaan Sao etc... to what is clearly grappling hand positions doesn't make it Wing Chun....though, it could be argued that it is reaching to make it a modernized version of WC. I think Moy Yat would not agree with this premise (of doing such). I believe he'd simply call it "wrestling." Mind you, my Si Gung was onto this same modality you're demoing, as in the 90s when he started Gracie jiu jitsu and found similar hand positions as well, and would call them Pak Sao or whatever...whatever it was that was similar he'd say, "look here's a ....." . Boztepe found a different way around that and essentially came up with making his VC work from laying down. Anyhow... Just pointing out things from my perspective based on my experience. Respect, Cheers.

[@fightscience]

Apologies if my reply was a little sharp, it was early hours of the morning here and I was a responding to a MMA troll, which I should know better to do. Guess the tone of my reply got mixed up with his. You've hit a number of interesting points, the first being the modernisation of Wing Chun. In my opinion aspects of Wing Chun are now outdated with the advent of modern MMA. The forefathers of Wing Chun would have never faced a modern wrestler or MMA fighter, therefore perhaps it is necessary to adapt but remain within the framework of the concepts of our art. Having said, that I recall being taught as early as 1986 to use Gum Sao to to pin the head of someone tackling you (we didn't train for shoots then, as we didn't face these in fights... just Rugby tackles). We also stretched our far leg back in order not to be caught by the bad guys arms. What I've taught in the ths video is a refinement of what was taught me from a traditional Wing Chun perspective 30 years ago. Of course the Laan Sao is standard to controlling space in Chi Sao, so it is applicable here as well, but still recognisably Wing Chun. Perhaps it's more the case that Moy Yat did not encourage his students to fight and hence this development did not occur (in Moy Yat's group) as in other Wing Chun groups (e.g. Wong Shun Leung and others)? What are your thoughts, as I feel that the 1980s was a real testing ground for us in the UK.

[@Bobbroberg]

If you want to defend against wrestler, train to anticipate the take down. So many of these idiot mma fighters think hitting pads with boxing techniques is going to work on take downs . If I know I'm going to fight a wrestler I'm going to stay a little Lower and use my best power straight punches when he comes in. Or even something we called "the ram shield" He's going to eat the punches because he has no defense and the fights over. Especially if one lands in the throat. If it's not I screwed up and didn't hit hard enough. Why complicate it with all these theatrics. This is only necessary for plan b worse case scenario if the striking doesn't work. Why just take it right to plan b? Work smarter not harder. This is one way we deal with take downs. This should be plan A. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iau6fYmrg8-ViLs

[@mayckonwolf]

Good defense lessons,but how about i kick his head when he comes to get me? And about the guilhotina? Well but you are right in don't let him get your legs,but be careful,graple styles have another ways to take you down.

[@TheKahliff]

Or, you could use the elbow as a frame, and throw a right cross into his jaw . . .

[@fightscience]

Of course, once you have created the frame you could add what ever strikes you wish. First of all you must create the space, hence the approach in this video of doing so. Thanks for watching. Please feel free to watch some of our other videos. Have a great day.

[@TheKahliff]

That's what I was thinking, which is why your video turned on a light in my head. Great vid. Thanx.

[@pauldawson2195]

#FIGHTBOSS

[@uffffffff1]

Is not so simple...even in UFC grapplers smash strikers 7 times on 10...

[@jonahhex9620]

Ken Cheung

[@daviddollinss4766]

Counter orthodox would not work against

[@danielg.5625]

at min. 2.45 is an interresting version for using the horse stance to avoid a Takedown . But I think everybody who is using this technique should be careful with his opponent :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHrIlauIa9OKmLc

[@johngoing8534]

or you could just teach them how to sprawl, throw in a wizard, you know wrestling techniques taught in kindergarten on how to stop a takedown

[@andylopes4781]

Mr Piccolo

[@Shaunemmanuel]

Why didn't he smile this time before the intro!?!?

[@bjjsalzberry13]

I was going to shit on this video, then I watched it.... Respect!

[@fightscience]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. By the way we love Jiu Jitsu. Thanks for watching.

[@wree1234]

its just a basic thing that I saw ufc fighters did it before

[@fightscience]

+wree 123 Very true, but judging by the comments that we have had on this video, many are sceptical, which is very surprising as these are standard ideas already practised by many. Thanks for watching.

[@wehsueh7252]

real fighter UFC

[@tabasdezh]

The guy knows no shit about wrestling. No one can defend when a wrestler connects like that to the opponent's body. The take-down comes with a hit to the heap-hinge to destroy the stability of the opponent and it's so fast that you cannot defend the attack like that. The guy thinks the wrestling is slow-motion like jujitsu. Learn some wrestling then upload a video about it plz.

[@AutodromoF1]

Chad Mendez will just shoot in -_-

[@fightscience]

+AutodromoF1 Yes probably. Luckily Chad Mendez wasn't doing the takedown ha ha... Thanks for watching.

[@windmillritual]

+Fight SCIENCE @4:23 most of the time, they will be shooting towards your entire body....either one leg or two...and lifting at the same time.... your method is most likely not going to stop their forward momentum. I love wing chun, but I want to address this situation in particular. Its a real opening, and I want your feedback on it.

[@Modinthalis]

Have you tried any of these techniques against real, resisting opponents? People who are actually determined to take you down? Frankly your advice doesn't sound very believable. It would seem that pushing the guy's head or thrusting your hips forward isn't going to help if both your legs are in the air. This is not typically how a double leg takedown defense works. Why not have your assistant really try to bring you down instead of making him conform to your scenarios? It would make for much more informative video at no cost.

[@fightscience]

Actually yes. We have practice Submission Wrestling and San Da here. Our team also compete in grappling competition along side other grapplers. Now the point of the video is to help Wing Chun practitioners how to use information they already have in practice. Hence there is no sense teaching a typical wrestling double leg defence to Wing Chun students. Besides, head control and heavy hips are standard practice in grappling training. As for a live demo. It's hard enough instructing in a clear articulate manner for the camera, let alone having to fight for your entertainment. That wouldn't make for a professional video. I take it you wrestle?

[@fightscience]

There are many approaches to defending the takedown, a sprawl being the most effective and that is not in dispute here. What I have clearly suggested is a simple alternative for people that study Wing Chun. As this video is aimed at Wing Chun practitioners it makes sense to discuss alternatives that already exist in their training. Hence my reply that we did not teach the typical defence, being a sprawl, as this was not the direction of the video. Now with all techniques you have to train and test them. You can discuss theory as much as you like but you have to be open minded to progress. As a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I have a great deal of wrestling, Submission Wrestling experience, as well as Judo. Approaching 18 years of grappling experience, along side 30 years of Wing Chun practice. I've trained/grappled in some of the top academies in Brazil, US, Europe, South Korea to name a few countries. As well as taught seminars in many more. In addition, to being the head coach of our competitive San Da team which specifically focuses on full contact Wrestling, Striking, and Kicking. I am confident that I can speak with some authority on this matter. Nevertheless, I will take your comment as constructive criticism and perhaps in future videos on this subject we will demonstrate in action rather than the reason and logic behind the moment. Thanks again for watching.

[@Modinthalis]

+Fight SCIENCE Did you remove my comment?

[@fightscience]

+Modinthalis No, there was no reason to as we responded, we thought you removed it?

[@mapmap465]

all these kung fu wing chun etc guys always wanna show how easy it is to stop a takedown and beat them up but they never fight a powerfull wrestler in a real fight. you deffinitly defend a fast and powerfull double leg from an expirienced wrestler not with 2 arms ^^ never ever

[@fightscience]

+Marco Bruderer thanks for watching. Bare in mind (although the title suggests) the point of the video is to help relate some simple concepts in Wing Chun that may help defend a takedown. It's not meant to be a definitive guide to defending a takedown e.g. with sprawls etc. Don't take it so seriously my friend. Have a great day.

[@mapmap465]

+Fight SCIENCE sorry man i dont wanna talk bad about other martierial arts but i just think some people really underastimate wrestling takedowns. the old times in ufc shows how important wrestling is.. nice evening

[@fightscience]

+Marco Bruderer no worries my friend I understand. I have great respect for Wrestling. You're very right about the earlier UFC, it showed the shortcoming of traditional martial arts. As a result I am now a 1st Degree Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I also Wrestling, practice Judo, and Submission Wrestling. How's that for not underestimating Wrestling? It's also a key part to our San Da (San Shou) training here at our gym. Anyway, no hard feelings. Have a great day my friend.

[@sethsamaniego6989]

to all wing Chung practitioners, with all respect, only way to defend against a grappler is to train grappling, such as bjj, wrestling, judo, etc. These techniques will NOT work, sorry.

[@fightscience]

Seth completely agree with you that you need to train grappling to understand and compare skills. Perhaps that's why these techniques work for our guys in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competitions and Submission Wrestling competitions. As I said in a previous comment, heavy hips, head control, and hand/clinch fighting are standard practice in Grappling, which is exactly what we taught in the video. What we have learnt is that being open minded is the secret to making things work. Perhaps you should consider this point. Anyway thanks for watching. Have a great day.

[@sethsamaniego6989]

When you get blasted by a double or get clinched and tossed you don't have time to "get head control" or have "heavy hips", work your sprawls and go live wrestling, then worry about your head control, etc.

[@fightscience]

+Seth Samaniego Totally agree Seth, you need to learn to sprawl. You do realise that we practice Brazilian Jui Jitsu and Submission Wrestling here? Hence, we do sprawl as standard practice.

[@HECTORARTUROA]

You can watch this kind if defense here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6bGZZWllMSNn5Y

[@yjmsrv]

Just watch this if you want to see a striker destroy a very strong MMA wrestler: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2S1f4dnrdSSZ7c This is before they started wearing gloves- striking works extremely well when the gloves are off.

[@leanas617]

i Always love how they expose the neck base of the skull and spide when they shoot in one elbo there can be leathal (/cause knock out/ permanant paralisis)

[@jpcfourth]

obviously youve never dealt with a take down if you think you have time to land significant strikes to that area from such a weak position

[@Forricat]

now i wonder if this is the reason why Bruce Lee jumps around instead of using wing chun stances sometimes when he fights

[@foggers9933]

Lea Nas haha. no. Not only is it difficult to elbow them why they are shooting, it is hard to generate much force and accuracy to hurt them much. This silly idea of 1 blow kills are ridiculous. Time to get back to the real world

[@jpcfourth]

we see alot of techniques being shown, what we arent seeing is effectiveness in take down situations, i challenge you to find a brazilian jiu jitsu gym and try defending takedowns from lower and advanced level students, dont forget to film and post your results!

[@fightscience]

+jpcfourth There's no need my friend. I am a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Instead I challenge you to have an open mind as I have. See the value of all martial arts and embrace the differences. Thanks for watching. Have a great day.

[@xgladar]

garbage advice, but typical of chunners who are to insecure too grapple vs another man

[@fightscience]

+xgladar really? Guess you are an expert at grappling. What's your grappling experience then?

[@Danny-el7ok]

Double blast hard to defend

[@Danny-el7ok]

Easier said than done