Wingfoil - Why you need to look at small boards + here's how to start them with absolute ease.

Learn - very simply - to start a wingfoil board that sinks. Smaller wing boards are better - easier in fact - so your progression curve rockets. But what's the use if you cant get them going?
This is a super simple hack to get you reliably up and running on board you can't kneel start - in one session. We explain it in a very visual way, so it's really easy to get your head around.
We'll also talk about future board sizes and designs assuming (we are confident) that you master this hack fast. We believe this is a nut that all wingers need to crack, as soon as possible, so you can open up the road ahead..

[@dezeustre]

very eloquent and unbelievably helpful. Thank you kind Sir!

[@shannonparker7404]

I don't even wingfoil. But I found this to be an exceptionally well done instructional video!

[@aabirouabou4559]

This is a reminder to you

[@martinomovies]

You are preaching the high holy gospel. By convincing me to get a smaller board, you have shown me the path to rapid improvement. Gybing, wave riding, and pumping downwind are much easier.

[@grahamhighsted4956]

Hi Mike, so tried yesterday in heavy waves, really struggled, watched your video again this morning, went out this evening on my 60litre f one , same sea state and nailed it, thanks again for spending the time to do this 🙌

[@ktwo-surf]

Aww - thanks for saying - happy to help, hope you have a brilliant season to come.. Autumn is here soon!

[@joemiller8029]

Thanks so much for sharing. One tip to help you perhaps. I ride 25-40L boards all the time and starting is absolute ease - you are right! Instead of using your elbow for balance, I for one don't need to slide my bum back. Rather, with both hand holding the front handle, while perpendicular to the wind, grab the nose of your board. Then swing your legs back and under to get to your knees. Once there, you can stay indefinitely because the strut gives balance in the roll, and it gives balance in the pitch. The second you lift the wing the balance transfers to your wing. So you go from stable (straddling the board) to stable (both hands on nose of the board holding front handle of the wing) to stable (on your knees balancing from strut) to stable (wing overhead while on knees). Anyway, I hope that helps and thanks for the great video!

[@ktwo-surf]

I will try it! thanks for sharing - I know what you mean about stable - if you get low, holding both handles when on the deck of the board you are pretty much invulnerable, if a little sea sick if you stay there too long, haha. I will give it a go and see what happens.

[@lightbulbfish]

Joe, considering the perspective that 25L is likely extremely low for winging, I’ve got a crazy question for you: I dock start all the time but have never tried winging, and my foil board is only 23 L. Do u think it is remotely conceivable for even an experienced winger to get up on a board this low of volume? I’m almost laughing at the idea of using it as my first attempt in winging, but want to get your opinion if you think I’d be wasting a session even attempting it? Thoughts?

[@joemiller8029]

@@lightbulbfish Sorry for the delayed response. I would recommend against it. Sure, you could, but it wouldn't be any fun. You will be a great winger though! I'd suggest getting out on a big paddleboard and a wing for a few days, then go the traditional route of a pretty floaty foil board and wing. In my humble opinion, being an expert winger, I really take learning slowly, to the point of totally boring before I move on to the next step in the process, to make sure I get the fundamentals down pat. Overdo it, not under do it, in my opinion. I see people rushing through the process and really missing a lot of fundamentals. It won't be long before your pump foiling skills will intercept your new winging skills and you will be ripping like crazy! Good luck!

[@lightbulbfish]

Thanks @@joemiller8029 that is sound advice!!!I really appreciate your thorough response!

[@gb2008bluefrog]

Mike, thank you for sharing the knowledge. Just jumped from 110 to 80litres and your technique has given me my first flights on the lower volume board. Fantastic instructional video 👌

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words. It's an awesome sport - my love for it continues to grow.

[@grahamreed8443]

Best breakdown of the Stinkbug start I’ve seen yet! I will share this vid for sure. Thx!

[@c.a.8754]

great vid!! very competent and on the point! No unnecessary blabla, compact information. thanx a lot!

[@xxxkaihawaiixxx]

Hi. This is by far the best method! Thank you for the video!!! I bought a 72l board with 82kg and after I tried it for the first time with the "traditional" method I doubted my decision and gave up after 30 minutes to save the day... I watched your video in the evening and tried this method the next day and was successful on the first try! I managed every following start and enjoyed the full potential of a small board and abolutely loved it! So big thanks to you!!!

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words, There are some crazy methods out there but this one seems pretty solid. Hope you enjoy the new board!

[@grahamhighsted4956]

Thanks Mike for taking the time, this looks awesome, will definitely give this a go on my next session 👍👍👍👍🙌

[@AKDurableSupplyCo]

Nicely done, Mike, great attention to detail and advice!

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks AK. Love your kit 🙂

[@nigel2024]

Hi Mike, Great work on your presentation and getting your valid points across. I have just changed down from a 110L to an 88L and am loving it. All the things you say at the start was me, too long on a big board. Looking forward to practising your technique and in the future I feel having two sized boards will be my go. Thanks

[@jonathancowcher7482]

Mike, thank you thank you thank you 🙏 I’ve understood the concept of the stink-bug start but never really got it - after watching your video a couple of times I got to try out your technique today. It’s so easy!!! First couple felt a little strange but after that absurdly easy, so much less wear and tear on the knees as well, absolute game changer.

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words, so happy it helped!

[@Alejandro388]

tremendous thank YOU! How I wish i had found this video 3 or so years ago ...

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind comments, I still use the same technique every session, not found anything easier 🙂

[@FoilIsland]

A really informative and interesting presentation on small board starting techniques, and the pros and cons of different board shapes and sizes. Nice one! We just got back from a 4-day trip, demoing a new sinker board, in a constant swell, and instinctively arrived at the same technique that you have detailed here. Was using a short 4'5" 60L with a very pronounced nose rocker (so even less potential horizontal planing surface) board in perpetual waves, and whilst challenging to get back up once submerged, the acceleration of enjoyment gleaned from using the smaller board size was worth every intermittent interruption of submarine battling!

[@surfa05]

Thanks Thanks Thanks!!! This is a game changer...!! You really make me thrust on my ability to go for little board!!!!!! I have seen others foilers do this Stingbug start but you are the one that conviced that THIS IS THE THECNIQUE....!! I'm 106 kg whit wetsuit+impact+helmet+ shoes and I'm on a Naish 110 liters board with Fanatic Aero 1750 +250+ 75 aluminium mast.... I was sad that my experience on windsurf(30+years) and kitesurfing(20+years) couldn't help me on this new sport....But today with your technique an motivation video...I could easily stand up with nearly no wind....with a 7m wing that was not even flying...! You where generouse to share your thecnique and your opinion!! If you come to Fuerteventura I invite you to a beer....and maybe I'll have the level to share a wave with you!! Cheers. (Sorry for my english)

[@ktwo-surf]

Ha! good work - yup - small boards are not to be feared - only in how much wind it takes to get them going, not in getting to the standing position - even in chop. Have fun in Fuerte!

[@RossDanielson]

Great video, I've also shared your opinion that many people are stunting their own progression by being on too-big boards. I'm about 75kg, started on a 90L board and quickly stepped down to a 38L using a very similar start to yours on this video. I flailed for a few sessions, including one situation that nearly resulted in a coast guard rescue, but once I got it dialed, my progression got supercharged. My fault driver is now a 60L Appleslice v2 and it's great. It has a great low-end and a minimal performance downside once on foil. I think -15 to -20L is the sweet spot for a 1 board quiver from intermediate onwards.

[@ktwo-surf]

It's exactly what I found, of the three boards in the van 58lt is where I spend 90% of my time, but to be fair I only travel to the beach when there is wind, so everyone's situation will differ.. We are fortunate I guess!

[@lightbulbfish]

Ross how did you almost merit a coast guard rescue?

[@toddn.kenyon6900]

I am where you were - at 90kg I just went down to a 105l and we have massive short-period steep chop every day so knees not working well doing it the beginner way. I look forward to trying this out next session - hoping it solves my two steps backwards problem! I have zero problem foilng w the 105, just the transition from falling off (still blowing jibes) to powered up on knees sucks right now!

[@JonnyMcJonFace]

I love the AK Phazer 78L. I’ve only used it a couple of times so far but gets going really early. I only weigh 56kg. Def going to be using this technique to get up and riding going forwards, especially when it’s choppy! Great vid! 👍

[@Twizz1979]

Best video I've seen on low volume boards! I'm going to share with all the guys so I don't have to explain it anymore. Haha!! Thanks so much.

[@ktwo-surf]

Thank you! yup - best shared, always so much to learn in this sport

[@peaplecreative]

Nice job with the video Mike

[@waynegaotmu5367]

Thanks a lot for such a great explanation with absolute clarity! Also great demos how to do it. Cheers, Wayne

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words :-)

[@markyboyclark]

Another cracking video Mike! :) We will play it in the shop too.

[@ktwo-surf]

gotta love youtube ;-)

[@christomo]

Mick great video Mate

[@jacobrichards8252]

Thanks Mike, I went from a 90lt straight to a Prone 35lt with no problems, if anything I think the stink bug is an easier start .

[@polovoorde]

This video, by the way posted on my birthday, is in my opinion by far the best I've seen when it comes to boardsize... Thank you for the great video and content !! No wonder you already count + 15600 views... ;-)

[@ktwo-surf]

Thank you for taking the time to write that - made my day. I read it on my phone stood over my kit at the beach at the end of an awesome session - made it even better :-) How can I be cynical about the internet ever again!? Thanks for the positive Karma credit :-)

[@noahmarcelsudarsky4352]

Thanks Mike, this is a luxury I couldn't do without. I ride the Phazer, at 110l. (I"m a bit heavier than you though. lol. I'll get two sizes down now!

[@jorgeibanez5332]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Mike!!! I weigh 75kg, have a 42L board and had been following the wrong techniques in KZbin for 11 months. People were saying that I needed a 100L+ board. I tried your technique and was up right away!!!! When you come to Paracas, Peru, give me a call. Aloha!

[@ktwo-surf]

What a lovey thing to read! Thank you for the comment - glad you are loving the sport - have a good summer!

[@paulnewman4955]

Great video, thanks for sharing

[@shannonclark8765]

This technique is game changer.🤙

[@flyingfootage]

Awesome mate 👍

[@tritonsyc]

Great video Mike, it makes our local spot look almost exotic

[@ktwo-surf]

Ha ha, don't get too excited Graeme, a couple of shots were from beadnell.. (the tropical blue ones) lol

[@sergiostefan7644]

Mike, thank you. Perfect explande. Thank you 👏👏👏👏👏

[@simonhunt7798]

Excellent well put together video. Thank you very much. I’m about 67kg and using Naish 75 lite board which I find fine. I considered smaller but I live in the Bristol Channel where it’s very swell and chop combined with up to 6 knots current and more in the rips so I like the slightly bigger board.

[@ktwo-surf]

Try this hack - I was in the North sea yesterday and it was crazy choppy with huge lumps & moderate wind on a small wing. The hack was 100% and I did not drop one - makes so much difference if you can remove the chew from a session to concentrate on the riding :-)

[@RGDDuran]

Hi Mike, many thanks for the video! Tried your method with my new 60lit board a few days ago and nailed it on the first attempt. I'm 82kg and was using a 75lit board before 🙂 you need to be quick with the critical move (moving back hand from board to back handle), but once this is automatized it's very easy! Cheers mate

[@ktwo-surf]

Awesome! It's such a good nut to crack. Have a look at the end of the vid where I start holding both rails and both handles at the same time. Of late, this has been my favourite method when it's wild.

[@Kiter-rm3ry]

Fantastic information

[@paulh.327]

You so right with the trick you show riding a semi-sinker is peace of cale ! An other step is to ride a foil under 1000cm, If you are about 75-80ig. But smaller foil are even bigger game changer, better carving, surfing steep waves....

[@ktwo-surf]

all foils are so different - I tend to find that between a few brands 1000cm2 is the break point for my weight. Smaller than this and the real world usability starts to drop (for me)

[@geogabara]

Mike great video. Confirms what I am thinking for my next all round larger board. I am loving my 60L Armstrong but in the choppy light conditions i have to work my ass off to get on foil with my older fanatic that is a 75L 5’0 (actually measures 4’10). It’s short and boxy. So i am aiming at a new narrow 22-23”w custom sunova in that 70-80L range-5’5-5’8 length for speed and DW gunning and light day takeoffs. when the wind is sketchy and inconsistent we all need to be able to sneak back to the beach. I am super keen to try your hack with my 42L that I’ve struggled to knee start. Totally agree with the ninja moves you have to make to get to be powered quickly. Thanks for this. Have you got an advanced pumping technique video? Top marks for nuanced commentary

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words! Not sure exactly what aspects make for a perfect board but plenty of R&D ove the next few years will help! We learn so much all the time and things are constantly evolving.. I have not really started pump foiling yet, through my friends have.. I think efficient big foils help from what I see and hear, but I'm certainly no expert!

[@florentcattaneo3830]

I don’t even jibe… and now I am riding a 41L thanks to you. in went from 110L to 41L fone rocket in just two sessions. 41L il still challenging in the chop, but I love riding it. Thank you

[@ktwo-surf]

That's hilarious. Good on you, small boards are fun!

[@gcammar]

Great video, but I'm still not sold. At 70Kg and on my very light 5.0x26.5x90L custom board I can go one or two sizes smaller in wing and foil compared to what my buddies are using on their 50L or less. And that, for me, is much more important than having a smaller board. My go to combo for wing downwinders here in Maui is Armstrong HA525 and F-One 2.8 Strike. Thanks to the board, I can get that going with 18 knots. Good luck on a sinker. Cheers.

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the info - everyone has a unique take according to style, conditions and ideals. I'm glad you have found something that works well for you.. I have great fun on my 58lt as a cornerstone board, back in from an open sea session this week - thoroughly enjoyable for how, where and the way I want to ride...

[@jamiedodds8042]

Nice one Mike, im totally with you, the smaller boards feel amazing. Ive been using 65lt as my light wind board and ive got a gorgeous little 45 Freedom foil Rubix for when its windy. Im 90kg these days. All the best mate 👊

[@ktwo-surf]

Jamie! Good to hear you are loving it. Yup small boards are awesome, and not as hard to deal with as many think, though boards do differ a lot at the same volume. All our old buddies are winging now - J Anderson, Hawkins etc etc - and all have the same style from when we windsurfed - I watched Jules and he just disappeared off to the horizon (looking for the windward mark apparently) haha

[@jamiedodds8042]

@@ktwo-surf haha

[@Olegisrael1234]

What is a light wind for you with 65L board ? 11-12 knots?

[@ktwo-surf]

@@Olegisrael1234 That depends on the foil size - I have a 1000 plasma that I use for everything but when it's too light to get that going I will reluctantly use a bigger foil - 1600 plasma, and on a 65lt board with my 6m (biggest wing I would consider to use), I would say 7-8 knots to initiate flight. Once up, the 1600 is fully pumpable, so you can maintain flight as long as you have the balance and pumping fitness... Honestly - as long as you can eek the 65 to the surface and build some pumps (easy in 5kts plus) then 65 vs 110lt of volume doesn't matter - only the ability of the board to build speed as you pump... The foil does the rest.

[@EkapolTharasiriroj]

Very nice technic. Will definitely try. I have 2 boards. one is 16L above my weight and one is 3L below my dry weight. I wing foiling in the open sea with lots of chops and light wind marginal conditions. So most of the time I use my big board. At least it can get me back when the wind drops and I cannot foil. But the small board is much more fun.

[@ktwo-surf]

I know Thailand well, it's hot too, so the wind doesn't have as much density as it has in northern europe.. Getting up on the foil is more important there than ever I would imagine!

[@ricopo3522]

This video is great- well explained and has me thinking. I'm 95kg, am 15 sessions into winging.... yes addicted. As for progress- I am jibing heal and toes side at about 75% efficiency. I switch my feet for long upwind tacks rather than go twist stance. Anyhow- I am currently on a 95l Naish. No issues with it even slogging when the wind dies- which it does often at my local. I am flirting with the idea of going smaller- perhaps 80l, but fear getting caught offshore and a long swim with lulls. Perhaps the best bet is 2 board quiver- but.... budget. Trying to suss out trading the 95l for an 80l or waiting to get a little better before making the leap.

[@ktwo-surf]

Hi there, good progress for 15 hours! also good limp home ability for 95lt at 95kg. I have that 78lt phazer in the van at 83kg for limp home offshore sessions. A smaller board for you would help, but it would have to be a second board if you have offshore conditions that you ride in regularly..

[@janwinterscheid8603]

Thank you !!

[@dordagiovex9989]

Looks like a windsurfing high wind start :)

[@billwhite6997]

Great video, just bought a 6m Slick im 200lbs and trying to decide which board to buy and what size.

[@nikgreen4691]

Great information mike.. you should be on Country File 🤘

[@nickmary1234]

I’m 95kg and ride a 77ltr Ensis in all conditions at my local spot Lyme Regis. I also have a 57ltr Ensis, which on flat water is no problems, but in swell/waves I find getting it going pretty physically demanding and don’t use it at all. But…having seen your clip, I’m going to try your technique and give it another go. Thanks for posting video, you’ve spurred me on!

[@ktwo-surf]

I was out in some nasty conditions (open north sea on tuesday on the 58lt) and the good old hack never let me down once - so nice not to have the stress of getting going)

[@ktwo-surf]

I was out in nasty chop / waves on tuesday and that hack worked a treat. You feel a moment of motion sickness and disorientation when your head is under the wing (remind me never to get marooned in a life raft) but I did not drop a single start, which makes you happy to fall in as much as you want 🙂 Hope you find the same!

[@Olegisrael1234]

You ride with your 77L in low wind like 11-12 knots with no problem to start/takeoff ?

[@nickmary1234]

@@Olegisrael1234 If my local live anemometer is showing 11-12knts, then there will be higher gusts. I try and use my BP799 (1100cm2) front foil for evrything. If constant 11-12knts, then I'll probably put my BP899 on (1400cm2) and I'll be fine...but I may be doing a bunch of pumping and get pretty tired pretty quickly. I find I can balance the 77 in anything, if you've got 1knt of headway, the board will stay on the surface, obviously, with no movement if I'm standing it sinks up to my knees. So if you're in the 95kg range like me, with a minimal amount of practice, you'll have no issues starting/takeoff. Not sure what you're riding right now, but as this video states, everry time you chop down in borad size, the performance is gain is very noticeable. I now need to get my 57 back on the water and commit to that!

[@Olegisrael1234]

@@nickmary1234 I weigh 80 kilos and surf just fine on 110 liters, I want to change to a single board 75 liters, thr dealer and my friends don't recommend me to take 75 because then I will lose a lot of days of 12-13 knots, and they recommend me to take 88 liters. I tried the 85 in a low wind and I was perfectly fine and I thought I might be able to do it with a little smaller board, so I asked to upgrade to 75 liters and I received recommendations not to do that and to take the 85/88 liters, so it turns out that every short period you have to upgrade. I will have to ask to try the 75 liter.

[@cosmicclown7619]

Hi Mike, can u do a video next that talks more about the sail size choice and less about the board?

[@ktwo-surf]

you mean in terms of the technology of wings relating to their sizes, or just what size of wing to use? To be honest - you want the smallest wing you can get going on.. as they are more efficient and handle better - in my eyes... But I do meet people who want as much power as they can get (but I can usually ride a lot faster than them with smaller wings and smaller hydrofoils)

[@AngusMcIntyre]

Great video and makes a small board very tempting. I'm 95kg with a 100l board and am really enjoying the range I can use it in. Not sure I can justify the cost of another board that will be frustrating when the wind dies. Maybe I'll get to my local shaper and demo something

[@ktwo-surf]

For sure.. Just borrow a small board on a windy day for a laugh. I agree with the blub home aspect - but for good conditions, small boards are ace..

[@omeromch565]

Thanks for this great video indeed it take just one session of practice to master it. Just a small not related question how did you install the camera on the back of the center strut?

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words. It's simply a Gopro Max, mounted at the end of a carbon pole - 1m long, inserted in the strut case, then inflated. The bladder warps around it and locks it with out damaging anything - works a charm 🙂

[@RamonSBruhn]

Very well explained, thx!! I am 87Kg and I am riding armstrong 5.5x27 88l. I am 50 years young and confident winger, dont jump but like riding open ocean bumps, some waves and downwinds. I ride in the Atlantic (Canary Islands) we have a lot of chop and wind swell (20 to 30 knots mostly). I am thinking to go down in size but I am a little bit afraid in choosing wrong size (can not test them here). I have seen in Awsi video that the new Armstrong boards are getting narrower, I am thinking in sth around 80, 70 or 60 liters. I want a compromise between sth that is more surfy but also where I can get back going without a lot of physical effort. What would you recommend me? It would be my only wing board. For the super light days have also the dw 7.7. Thx a million!!

[@ktwo-surf]

Surfy, with maximum getting going early - it has to be the phazer... For me, 80kg, I use 58 compact - so that's 22 lts below my weight. I've tried 46lt and it's a disaster in practicality - even when there is a bit of wind, so for you at 87kg, I'd say 65 phazer would give you equivalent of what I'm using - or 78lt if you want to be cautious.. All the newer designs are staying the same volume, same length, but every year they are getting a bit thinner - helps getting going... I'd say that if you are thinking of going bigger than 80 - your underselling yourself.. Good luck!

[@TrygveAgus]

Mike, great video! Thank you! your video inspire me to get a smaller board. Do you think it is a good idea to have a low volume board eventhough I have not able to do gybe yet? I am 75 kg , my board currently is 105 liter…thinking to get a 75 liter board but not sure if i should because I cant gybe yet (i am ok on foil) . Any advice ?

[@ktwo-surf]

I have settled on a practical minimum of 60lts for 80kg. You could easily do the same now, I think you are selling yourself short at 75lts… After all you have your 105 for light winds? If it’s one board for all and you ride in light winds a lot then you could argue for 75… 75 you will be able to stand on with no wind at all…

[@Beachbumextraordinaire]

Two words: It works! Two more words: Thank you!! Just one more: Euphoria :)

[@ktwo-surf]

Awww - thanks for the kind words! Glad you has success!🙏

[@mikeevans1613]

great detailed video. How much do you weigh ? And if I weigh 90kg, what size board range would you recommend for an advanced wing foiler, mainly in chop conditions (San francisco bay) for 1) a one board solution, and 2) a two board solution ? I am trying to figure out the proportions compared to your weight. Thanks for posting this

[@ktwo-surf]

Hi Sir, I'm 80-83kg depending on season, and I use 78lt Phazer for light or dodgy stuff (ie big waves and gusty wind) and a 58lt compact for anything where I have consistent power. I also have a 36 Phazer but it's a bit too small for wing if I am honest.. If you are 90kg, probably a 90lt Phazer and a 65 Phazer. If a one board solution I would suggest the 78lt Phazer... The compact works so well for me in a 58, the pitch control for me at 80 is exemplary and the only downside is the slower takeoff. You'd need to try the compact in the next size up (74lt) to see how you faired. It's a hard thing to call unless I strapped 10 kilos of lead on. If you have form and a good starting technique you may well gel with the 58 I use, as you are only 7kg over my winter weight and I think that knocking 7 litres off the 58 compact I have would have minimal effect on the early starting to be honest... hope that helps!

[@rockm0001]

Great video! I’m about go from a 6.11 142L to a 5.5 95L. Only a beginner tho at almost 4 months into this new sport! I got up east today but wind was about 25-30mph. Choppy too. My question is how hard is to ride in ocean chop for these smaller boards?

[@ktwo-surf]

If you look at the end of the video you will see me hold both handles, and grasp the rail of both sides of the board whilst holding the handles. In crazy sea conditions - this the way forward, it allows you the ability to go from stable stance to wing flying and balanced stability on the knees instantly.. As long as the sea is not breaking (like waves breaking onto your head from above) there is no issue with starting small boards using this method. In many ways it's easier than a big board knee start and when it's really choppy - kneeling on the board without holding the wing is tougher to do!

[@josefschminke9667]

I felt the same kitefoiling from a big beginner board to a small board. I felt like my first time on a foil for 2 hours. After that I managed to get on the board and suddenly it was easy to ride. Still I’m a little afraid to do the gibes… something to figure out in the next session.

[@philippecarette4126]

Really a great video. I am totally beginner. I will try your technic on a big board, since after 3 sessions, it's difficult for me to stand up, on a 120l board. I can't catch some words at 5:30-5:40. I got "wobble", I think I cought "straightening up" but not some "shi t in" or something like that. Subtitles in english would be perfect, btw, for strangers who have no english as native langage. But a lot of tx for your vid, and this technic, which looks just amazing.

[@ktwo-surf]

Hi There - sorry - I should get subtitles.. I honestly didn't expect the video to be as well received as it has been - it's starting to cross language barriers! wobble (is tippy or unsteady balance) Straightening up, (is sitting tall, or standing) sheet in (is pulling in power with your back hand) Thanks for the kind words! Good luck on the water, it's such a great sport.

[@philippecarette4126]

@@ktwo-surf Tx again for your reply, and another tx for your video. I didn't get sheet in, but I guessed the general meaning, with the video. No wind before monday, here, near Nantes. I am really impatient to test your hack .... for sure that foiling is really exciting.

[@yoshi.0516]

Very nice explanation. Can a wing foil board be used as sup board. What is the compromises or tradeoffs?

[@ktwo-surf]

Hi There, no - not really. A prone foil board, maybe, but a sup board - too small. There is a rend to longer thinner foil boards for surfing right now to help you get on the wave earlier.. This is something that a lot of us are looking at. The prospect of using a wing board for surfing with a paddle, it's not something anyone advocates yet - there are some crossover designs coming but like all crossovers they will carry a compromise cost..

[@pakaafoil]

Great video. Wondering if you also tried sinking the board and putting your feet in the foot straps. Then pump some to get the nose out of the water. I think you may need a smaller board and decent 18mph+ wind for that. I tried once that way and was way more stable than I could have thought.

[@ktwo-surf]

This can be done on tiny boards, but getting them to the surface is only half the issue - getting them to take off speeds after that requires power and (for me) that takes more power than I like to ride with...

[@finleytaylor6614]

This was just the video I needed. just got myself a 1280 foil and planning on getting a 60ish litre board. I weigh about 69kg and been on a few 60 litres before in higher winds. Would you say this is still a setup that could be used in 12-14 knots?

[@ktwo-surf]

Not sure on the specs of the 1280, and all boards at the same literage are different as to how early they go, so it's a hard question to answer, but 12-14 knots is a lot - so I would be inclined to say 100% yes. That said, if you asked me at 8-10kts the answer would be 'possible' but with caveats..

[@finleytaylor6614]

@@ktwo-surf great, thank you. I also tried your technique and it is unbelievable how much easier that makes things.

[@ktwo-surf]

@@finleytaylor6614 Thanks for the kind words, Im really pleased it helped, It's a great sport!

[@peterheirmanster]

Even what you call chop, we name that nearly flat sea. Our chop can even topple you over once standing. Moreover you have plenty of wind as you get going without really pumping. I use 75l at 68 kgs.

[@ktwo-surf]

Sounds like shorebreak!

[@kpj5]

I’m only starting and I want to be at this level now 😂

[@tristankitchener6827]

Hi Mike, great video and super easy to follow, thank you! I'm 63 kgs/165cm, intermediate rider and looking to transition to a smaller board (one board quiver). Half the time I'm out in rough conditions, 25knots+, so need to be able to get going when it's choppy. I'm toying up between the yellow Fanatic Style TE, either the 55l (4'7) or 65l (4'9), I've been on a red 75l Fanatic Sky Wing for the last 18 months, which now feels big. I'm really cautious about the 55l as it could be a nightmare in rough conditions and the 65l may be safer as there's only 2 inches difference, esp as a 1 board quiver - I'd really appreciate your advice!?

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words. I think that every weight has a sweet spot. For me at 80kg, anything smaller than 55lt just doesn’t have enough float to keep it on top of the water unless it’s windy. My core board is 58lt and a changed to the same board at 46 and it’s just not doable - so at 63 you may well find your lower limit is 50lt? Swell makes no difference with this start and the only variable is volume and power… (and a bit of technique) but that is easy enough to master.

[@tristankitchener6827]

@@ktwo-surf Thanks Mike, I'll give that some thought and see if I can demo some smaller board sizes.

[@thatandrewcowan]

Hi Mike thanks for the vid, I am coming from kite surfing and kite foiling but only just got my first wing. I have a few older kite foil beginner boards that I thought might do the trick. Can you learn wing foiling from scratch on a smaller volume board with your trick?

[@ktwo-surf]

maybe! - but make sure you get the wind strong enough to give you good balance when up.

[@yomi]

Mike, thanks for an inspiration. A question if I may. I’m a newbie who can’t even hydrofoil yet. At 68kg, flat water, average wind 12knots, what size of board should I begin practicing? FYI my current board is F-One 85liter. Thank you.

[@ktwo-surf]

Practicing this start, or hydrofoiling in general? On a board this size there is no need to sink start - you can just kneel start it and make life easy.. practicing hydrofoiling - it's best to use a smallish wing I find around 4 - 4.5 in around 15-20 knots. a 5m or 5.5 will have you comfortable in around 10-15kts.. Just take it steady and be kind to yourself - learning and cracking things bit by be should be a rewarding experience - sometimes it boils over into frustration and annoyance!

[@yomi]

@@ktwo-surf Thank you, Mike. So 85 liter board is OK to start learning this new sport (for me) or should I might as well start with board size like 60 or 70 liter instead?

[@ktwo-surf]

@@yomi make life easy for yourself to start - good conditions and 85lt, then drop down when you have some confidence.. small boards are easier, (when up and riding) they are less so when you are wobbling around off the foil and only learning - 85 lt is an easy board to sell on when you are done....

[@obx_foiler]

Nice video Mike! I'm the same weight as you and have been doing demos of various winging setups (only kite foiling in the past). My last few sessions have been on the Phazer 90l coupled with the GoFoil RS 1150. Prior to that on the AK Surf 1600. I really like the shape of the Phazer but my only hesitation is the shorter and more forward tracks. It seems like I need to be much further forward on the board, especially with the RS1150. I don't want to be locked into a foil and hoping for a little bit more universal compatibility. Can you comment? Also, questioning if the 78L might be a better choice but have yet to get a ride on one. The big boards really take the fun away. Maybe a 2nd smaller board down the road.

[@ktwo-surf]

Thx for the kind words Phazer 78 is as big as I go - had a camping trip with the family and it was so light that there was very little chance of ever getting up, but to escape parenting for 30 mins I had a go - 78 is fine - wobble out, stop, wobble, no stress at 80kg unless I stand limp for 5 sec or more, and then a bit of wafting and I start moving forwards again and stop the sink.... All foils have a geometry - mast position in fuselage, power and angle of stab, plus length of fuselage - there is a radical difference now of where you need to mount them on the board. AK and Shinn are fine on the AK boards, but I do have them towards the front. Strapless it's of less issue, but if you ride straps then you have to get box/board/strap insert geometry lined up - Go foil may be out of tolerance for the strap and box positions - I don't know as I have not tried this combo...

[@obx_foiler]

@@ktwo-surf Thanks for the quick response! Good feedback. I found the same with the AK foil ... I needed to move it forward of center to match up with the balance point of the board. The GOFoil wanted to be much further back. Will keep testing :)

[@ktwo-surf]

@@obx_foiler Interesting - I'm guessing the go foil mast is set a way further back on the fuselage? The brands do like to play - and some brands have multiple attachment points on the fuselage for us to play, and even then - we don't all agree! lol

[@finbarrohalloran6907]

Hi Mike. Thanks for the Vid. I’m not quite at that level yet, but When I get there I’ll see be putting this into practice. What I’d be really keen to see thou, I’d hope you attach your GoPro max to the Wing? I have one but I’ve no idea how I’d go about attaching it. Cheers. 🙏

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words. Have a look at this video - 1.22sec in you will see a pole out the back of the centre strut and the go pro on the end :-) This shot is taken by another go pro on Pete's back - on a bespoke backpack with a pole protruding out..

[@finbarrohalloran6907]

@@ktwo-surf thanks Mike! That was kinda why I asked. I saw that clip 1.22 and thought it looked very neat and tidy. I was wondering if you have a more detailed photo of how you have secured it? I have handled not booms and I use the rear handles all the time while flying soo I can’t really attach anything to them as my hand need them …. Was wondering if you have a more innovative solution. Cheers. 🙏🙏

[@ktwo-surf]

@@finbarrohalloran6907 - it's a carbon pole with a gopro mount bonded on the end, and the pole is simply inserted inside the boom strut, up the gap on the end - inflating the wing wedges it solid between the bladder and the casing. The end of the tube is against the rear handle reinforcement - So far no bladder issues (end of tube is well smoothed with tape), and works a treat..

[@finbarrohalloran3691]

@@ktwo-surf Cheers Mike - sounds very need .... I will try and emulate both your mount solution and the waterstarts ;-)

[@Olegisrael1234]

Hi, I’m 80kg and bought a 75 liter board, I winged for two days, on the first day the wind was around 15 knots, it was easy for me to stand up and takeoff eith your hack, and all things are much easier now and I am really progressing - for this thank you to much. But today was much more difficult, wind 20 knots, swell about a meter higher, it was really difficult for me to balance on the board and get to the position of standing on my knees with two hands on wings, I felled all the time, your hack is no longer worked for me in a strong wind with a 5 meter wing. when I tried the hack and to get on my knees , the wind spins me and the wing turns over (strong wind). I don't know how to continue in similar conditions, obviously to continue practicing more and more to master it. maybe to buy a smaller wing even though many manage with 5 meters in 20 knots, it seems....

[@ktwo-surf]

It sounds like you have a problem with holding the wing - as with knees on and power in the wing you should be 100% stable. If you are getting spun before that, you need to find out why and stop it - for sure if you are not 90 degrees to the wind you will not be stable.. it will be a combination of where you st on the board and where you hold the wing.. You can also constantly move your legs if you cant get the direction balanced until you hook your feet which will help you keep pointing in the right direction until you are ready to shuffle and hook.

[@andrealanier825]

I have a left hip replacement and don’t know what board width I could straddle a board. I’ve tried 21” and still can’t straddle. I’m craving to drop from my 54 liter board. Thank you for all your videos

[@ktwo-surf]

Thanks for the kind words. I guess a narrower board like a Phazer would be the best bet - these get pretty narrow? Certainly - the board I use - the compact - is wide... but then I have bandy legs so it's no issue, haha! I recent went smaller than my stock 58lt compact as they made a 48lt version and though just as easy to start - losing another 10lts made little difference to the handling but a massive difference to the practicality, which was very interesting. 55/60lt at 80kg is my golden size... Some people say smaller the better, but I say there is an optimum.

[@liotedupuis5311]

Hi Mike, I'm looking for purchase a wingfoil freestyle board (gong 2022 freestyle gear), and i don't know if i should rather pick a 80L board or a 65L board (i'm around 75-78kg and i already practised on 85L board). I intend to wing in 10+ kts

[@ktwo-surf]

How early you want to get going is down more to the rockerline of the board.. Like the difference between the Phazer and the Compact in this video. So be careful thinking that volume is the over-riding factor when getting going. It brings you to the surface, and levels you off ready for acceleration, but it doesn't control how efficient the sub planing glide is... I'm 82kg and I find the compact 58lt has been my absolute go-to for everything now - so much that I change up in hydrofoil size to 1300 if things are light rather than up to a bigger board. Yes the phazer goes earlier but the control of the compact is such that I pay the price of later takeoff in the search for the best handling when up. For your weight 60-65lt is still very practical when getting to the surface of the water - and from there Phazer 65 goes quite a bit before compact 58. I have found that when you drop below 58 at 80kg things get annoyingly difficult to get to the surface quickly - for the comparative advantage the smaller boards give - I'm finding it's not worth the penalty of total submersion if you are falling a LOT (which everyone should be haha)

[@jannegarvik7023]

Great video and instructions. Any chance that you can tell me your weight? I think size (volume) of board means little when not knowing weight of the person using it!

[@jannegarvik7023]

Hmmmm is your weight 80kg, or your friend, or both of you?

[@ktwo-surf]

Absolutely - around 82 kg- I recently tried going down to the 48lt compact and the faff (ie power level required) to get going is no where near a good enough trade to warrant the reduction in volume, stepping down from my 58lt version.. So I do think that there is a line for everyones weight below which life is unnecessarily difficult..

[@bobdorris2062]

Since I only have a large board (Gong Hipe 6.5)... would this technique help on that? Can't balance on my knees even on that size in the choppy water here.

[@ktwo-surf]

absolutely - these days I am so used to starting this way that I start bigger boards the same. The only caveat is that if the board is massively wide it may be tricky to straddle. Most boards are getting thinner every year though.. and the new down wind style boards will become the future of large boards I am sure..

[@cbundus]

Any suggestions for someone with two knee braces who has destroyed the rails of his boards learning how to wing..

[@ktwo-surf]

I know your pain. I snapped my ACL many years ago, and had to wear a knee brace to stop it collapsing, and it was a chew. Either put an oversized tough grip deck on the board that you can strip and re-do when selling the board, Or.. not knowing your situation, but I no longer wear a knee brace... I took up cycling and never had another problem with it - must have re-built the muscles I don't normally use, and the result was complete stability (still missing my acl completely).

[@SteveHofsaess]

I am on day 6 of wing foiling,, using a 150 litre board,, my instructor has me going down to 120 litre tomorrow

[@Arkeopterex69]

Hi there, I am 106 kg, I am using a 105 liters board. ATM, I use the traditional knee technic. I am looking at buying my friend's board at 77 liters, do you think it is wise considering that I would keep both?

[@ktwo-surf]

I do! If you can afford to keep both for a while then it's a good plan. Once your confidence rises with the 77 you may never go back - and your standard may significantly jump. If not - then nothing lost..

[@BrettWae]

I know I could get up in a lower volume board with a powered wing. 3:33 thats "a lot" of wind. What about lightwind though? Im 73kg and use a 90L with axis png 1150 and can get going with my 90L in a fart with a 6m. 7-10knots. Would going down to 80L or even 70L prevent that though?

[@ktwo-surf]

Of course smaller boards need more wind, but board designs do make a big difference - for example it takes less wind to get a Phazer 65lt going than it does a compact 74lt. It's down to how efficient they are when they are displacing water when getting going. If you want a small board that goes early - have a good look at those Phazers, they are exceptionally efficient..

[@kurt6221]

MIke i'm just getting started. Question. Everyone says to start on a heavy board? Is this really necassary? It seems to be two completely different riding styles so why learn on big board if you want to perfect a small board. I'm a surfer. I ride a sub 25L board. I'm going to buy soon so any help would be appreciated. I'm 5/8 150. thanks

[@ktwo-surf]

a heavy board? for what reason? ..weird Pitch control is essential and limited by leverage and mass, reducing both is the goal. Volume is helpful when starting - 150lbs is 68kg, so 70lt would see you floating at rest and you should be looking at 80lts of volume minimum to learn with... when you get good, go smaller - right down to 25lts if you see fit but you'll prob stop at 45. Learning on a 45 will be next to impossible though...

[@kurt6221]

@@ktwo-surf thanks for the tip

[@bigskyez7738]

How much does body weight play in making the board decision? I'm 145 lbs?

[@ktwo-surf]

It's good to be light in this game 🙂 You are 10kg / 22lbs lighter than me so in theory you should be able to go 10lts below my volume to achieve the same results - so I swear by the 58lt compact - you would possibly be able to get the 46 going. If you can try it though, as theory and practice are not always one and the same!

[@wingcoachdavid]

I'd like to see how this works with a lower volume board, when the nose is under water. Does it end up being almost the same as a stink bug? Why do you like this better than the stink bug?

[@ktwo-surf]

It’s just the same. Really easy to your feet - my smallest board is 35 litres. However, when you can get to your feet with zero issues you then come up against a new threshold - how small is practical. For me, the amount of power it takes to keep and break a board out of the water onto the foil sub 55lt (I’m 80 kg) is a problem that having a super small board does not pay back. Sub 55lt is a wind range killer for me (personally)

[@wingcoachdavid]

@@ktwo-surf I'll give this a try next time! I'm only 53 kilos and my new small board is 35 liters, 4' 6". I've been riding an 80 liter, 5' board since I started winging last March. I'm excited to see what a lot of people are saying about smaller being easier! I've only launched it 3 times so I wouldn't know yet, except my experience of going from 6' to 5' which was a lot of mile of riding ago! Thanks for your quick reply.

[@chaigh53]

Is this suitable for a beginner?

[@ktwo-surf]

As a beginner, you would be using a bigger board, so a normal knee start is fine. If your question is will this method work on a sinker for a beginner, it's possible in theory, but I would do your time on a higher volume board first if you want your progression rate to be the same as everyone else's!

[@kevinlowe7552]

Which kind, shape, or brand of board releases from the water easist? In the 75-80L range There are so many brands of boards it’s ridiculous.

[@ktwo-surf]

Agreed. It's going to be impossible to find someone who has used them all. Plus (and I have tried) there are some new displacement tail boards used for downwind - that have ridiculous sub planing glide - and these will be the best but they are not mainstream, and also long and unwieldy when you are up. Real world though - I've not seen anything that can really beat a new gen 3 phazer 78 up onto the foil for mainstream wingfoil. (for me at 80kg)

[@kevinlowe7552]

Thanks for the quick response and very nice video. The Ak brand is very rare here in the states, at least west coast. At 80kg Do you consider the 78 to be a sinker board or is it your light wind board?

[@ktwo-surf]

@@kevinlowe7552 100% my light wind board - I can stand upright in virtually no wind waiting for a gust to go.. it's as big as I would ever need volume wise... AK are over there - drop them a mail on their contact page website..

[@markberezny1873]

Hi Mike- are you riding salt water or fresh water?

[@ktwo-surf]

Good question - both, but I do grant that salt has a little more buoyancy, but when you get the technique it's makes no difference.. Interestingly I ride a sand bar on the edge of a river, it works well on an incoming tide as all the water is salt, but on an outgoing tide the edge of the bar is a transition between salt and fresh and the turbulence created by this is incredible. Not sure if it is chemical or just general turbulence but it's barely ridable..

[@markberezny]

@@ktwo-surf I've got 3-4kg on you and I ride a 90L Phazer v2 on fresh water, so, slightly bigger board relative to my size than yours. I find when the wind goes to absolute zero, I'm ankle keep and not sure I'd want a board any smaller for the dead zones. I will say I noticed a difference from phazer v1 --> v2. V2 seemed more buoyant for the size volume. interesting to hear about the salt/fresh mix. I've done some standing wave river foil surfing and it's a disaster, way too much turbulence, I've yet to find the perfect local wave that is clean and deep enough.

[@HADDEN67]

It’s more important to have a light board. Most production boards are very heavy.

[@markjohns4826]

Don't underestimate an inflatable board.My main ride is a NAISH 85L but my inflatable at 110L is the same size!! best of both worlds!

[@ktwo-surf]

At the risk of starting an internet fight, I'm not a fan of inflatables - sorry. They have quite a bit of mass but worse is their lack of torsion - like flying a plane when the linkages are made of elastic. GREAT for learning session 1 and 2 - certainly, but the better you get the more limited they become, and sadly if you stay on them they will ultimately limit your ability.. You need direct reactive feedback and control. Stiff, low mass and short length (if you can suffer the poor starting ability) Inflatables are awesomely practical, but if they had a performance advantage too they would be everywhere....

[@markjohns4826]

No fight required😆 An observation I have not made. Perhaps beyond my ability level at this stage. It’s possible if pushed harder they may give a little. Would be good to get that opinion from others here?

[@wsurfn]

100%

[@davesamess9897]

Like kneeboarding behind a boat to end up bare footing

[@dustinl5813]

Seems like all his boards are pretty much sinkers. I’d say to keep simple, if you only have money for ONE BOARD and are a beginner go 120-140 liter board. (140 if your on the heavier side). If you’re now somewhat experienced go 90-110 liters. And if your even more experienced do a sinker board or smaller board 50-75 liters if you wanna do AIRS. 75 depending on your wait isn’t exactly a sinker but it’s a bit getting in that realm. Good combo for “quiver” is a 75-80 liter AND a nice buoyant 90-100 maaaaybe a 110. That’s the thing; a sinker In open ocean isn’t the safest. Don’t wanna be fucking bait. Also light winds bigger board is better and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier to get up “on foil”

[@jumpleadsx2]

As far as I can tell, its impossible to get into this sport without getting induced to buy a sh!tload of equipment. Im right at the beginning and looking at a GONG starter kit for about 1k. Im 100kg and a 60 litre board makes me think - strong wind, small wing. But then a light wind is big board, big wing, and a medium wind is a medium board, medium wind. All that = 3 boards, 3 wings. Then there are my 4 kites, and 2 TT boards. Then a kite foil board. Then my 2 paragliding wings. Does anyone have a spare $30k?

[@ktwo-surf]

one board, one wing, one foil. get that dialled, then maybe a smaller wing for strong winds, and just swap out stuff as you go from there.. it can be done on a budget if you want to.

[@maxagent86]

These are not wings in the true sense, these are kites. This sport should be called hand kiting. Still cool, anyway.

[@sveny_foils]

If it’s a sinker why you aren’t sinking it. It’s way easier if u sink the board and start pumping the board up. Sorry but I don’t get your hack.

[@ktwo-surf]

It may be for you - but not for me. My board is 58lt plus 80kg rider and 6 kilo of board, without power I'm up to my waist. If I can start this without sinking it - why would I want to intentionally sink it to start it? It's just making life harder than it needs to be...