IF the Grammy Awards class THIS as 'a cappella', WHERE do we go from here???

[@kimberlycorliss9616]

All this pitch correction makes me appreciate local live bands even more. It's not always perfect, but it's real and enjoyable.

[@yanasto]

Unfortunately live can be pitch corrected too now

[@susantownsend8397]

I’ve had family in New Orleans off an on for over 30 years. Some of them are very musically inclined. We all agree that at any time you can wander into a small bar or cafe and hear incredible voices and instrumentalists. No autotune. No pitch correction. Even their missed notes are glorious. My wish for all of your listeners is to have access to music like that.

[@johnnynick6179]

Unfortunately, MOST local live performers today are using pre-recorded tracks AND auto-tune. This is ruining the live music industry for those who have actual ability. It's becoming more difficult for those who have real talent to get decent paying gigs because the talentless masses are selling themselves for absurdly cheap prices and the general public are clueless to how they're being duped.

[@roberthaynes8830]

Amen to that!

[@stealthis]

​@@yanastoit really shows how little these people know

[@willcool713]

Your analysis used to be an interesting curiosity and fun to train my ear with. But now your channel has become truly important. You're doing important journalism here, investigative musical journalism. Thank you. Please keep documenting.

[@aquamarine99911]

The challenge of a capella is staying on pitch without a supporting instrument. So pitch correction undercuts the "magic" of singing a cappella. it becomes pointless.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

It means you don't have to pay someone playing the supporting instrument.

[@seanbeadles7421]

Actually it’s entirely expected for a capella performances to drift tuning wise. There’s even a term for it, a “comma”. It will eventually sound a bit “off” tuning wise when compared to music with instruments. It even become an issue in mixed performances in situations when the singers sing alone then get accompanied later. Jacob occasionally throws things like 24TET into his work and that’s vastly more difficult to do when doing just intonation a capella. I think that’s why Jacob made the choices he made. You can’t modulate a quarter step when the comma has you 20+ cents off the note in the first place He’s also got perfect pitch iirc, so the commas might be really frustrating to listen to because the pitches don’t match 12TET.

[@Proghead88]

It was all sung very tightly on pitch. Pitch correction was used as an artistic choice. Watch the live version. There is no pitch correction there and it sounds just as good, except more emotionally impactful because it is done in real time with arbitrary timing, as opposed to carefully constructed in the studio.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@aquamarine99911 That may be the big challenge to you but that is hardly the point of a capella at all and Jacob Collier doesn't need pitch correction or auto tune at all yet he's used the latter for effect in ARock Somewhere which is also nominated for a Grammy and he's used choirs like the Aeolians in World O World which should have gotten a nom under Classical. What you find difficult doesn't determine creativity, quality or execution.

[@Music_is_Breathing]

Amen to that!

[@wesara9724]

As a person studying classical music (playing the viola specifically) making everything equal temperament is absolutely insane to me. Equal tuning is a compromise for keyboards so the don't have to retune every 5 minutes when the key changes. I play a fret less instrument and my C sharp is tuned differently depending on the context because to be perfectly in tune it changes. Nothing is as magically resonate as a perfectly in tune acapella performance, all the harmonies start really vibrating. And pitch correcting to equal temperament just absolutely crushes the harmonies out of the voices. Tldr. The point of being acapella in my opinion is that you can be perfectly in tune without compromising to equal temperament. And pitch correcting to equal temperament defeats the entire point of not having accompaniment.

[@ClaudiaCarranza1]

love you my fellow alto clef person ❤

[@tabor503]

Jacob is a fan of good tuning.

[@acai929]

I find this actually kinda strange as having pitch correction software where you have insanely tight control on the pitch, wouldn’t one actually be tempted to tune it more in tune than equal temperament. 😬

[@BarbaraMarieLouise]

Yes! I‘m an opera singer and from Vienna. We always have to adapt to the different pitches as in Vienna the standard for classical music is now 443 to 446. As I also studied Jazz where you have 440 I did experience the difference for the voice, especially if you are a more dramatic voice. You have to adapt and it’s also a question of vowel, tongue position and sound position in order to be in the perfect pitch for the piece. And normally the voice adjusts quite naturally. As a, let’s say c changes slightly depending on the position in the harmony and the tonality of the piece. Very interesting if you happen to sing more baroque repertoire. There it is always the question in which tonality. The modern standard or the one of the time. So 430 or even 415 and everything sounds different and you really have to train to be able to sing it well. But it’s a really interesting topic.

[@acai929]

@ Yikes 443-446 seems brutal as (at least as far as I know) they used to tune to 43x here in Finland and the pieces written for that pitch had some really tough tenor parts so just imagining having to sing those with a higher tuning gives me anxiety. 😬 Granted my pitching is at a level which I recall my teacher calling “good enough for a singer but you’re definitely not a violinist” so I’d probably just be flat even if the orchestra tuned higher than what I’m used to. 😂

[@russell.holland]

The weirdest thing about it is that Jacob Collier has, more than any young musician today that I know of, advocated for this EXACT subtlety you are demonstrating here to be embraced, and not "fixed." In a time when nearly everything in pop music is fake, he has stood out as embracing what is real. He has gone on at length for hours in his Logic session videos about how both pitch and rhythm as they exist in real, human music are amazingly rich and don't need to be "corrected" to align with an artificial grid. Not only that, but he understands temperament and has played with it, pivoting to "new"/"nonexistent" keys using just intervals from the first key so that the harmony shifts outside of the equal tempered, A440 world. I am dying to hear him talk about why he did this and what his whole take on it is. He is 100% aware of what is going on, almost certainly more than any of us watching this video. I understand that he also embraces pop music too, with its production techniques, but I still have trouble seeing how he'd think it necessary to pitch "correct" Tori's voice in his own production. Also thanks to whoever requested this. I am a big fan of Jacob and find this really interesting.

[@mrswimmyboy]

Maybe the pitch correction wasn't Jacob's choice.

[@harperwelch5147]

He may be a perfectionist at heart. Expecting that of others?

[@russshaber8071]

Fil, you deserve a Grammy for this analysis and reporting. I'll print one for you on my 3D printer.

[@Heightsomethinghuman]

Fil deserves awards alright, real ones for all the deception he uncovers, as well as the education he provides us subscribers. I have learned sooo much from Fil!

[@lonestarbug]

Agree.

[@1THEMAGUS]

russhaber..that is priceless!!!

[@alexandergutfeldt1144]

Don't you think a handcrafted, slightly of artistic version, would be more fitting to the topic of this video 😅?

[@MichaelJamesWood]

Great comparison and also funny. Nicely done. 🤣

[@tala.avraham8265]

As a producer, since I abandoned the pitch corrections and demanded more from the singers I started to get better results.. and the singers are singing better and giving more from themselves…

[@richardvoogd705]

I like the sound of this. As useful technology can be when crafting a recording, the skills of the artists, backed by a suitably skilled production team, matter.

[@acai929]

I both love this approach but also the singer in me is absolutely terrified as knowing that if there’s a “bad note” in a take there’s probably a take where one can Frankenstein it from and/or fix it with melodyne helps getting to a more “relaxed state” when recording and freeing me to focus on the delivery and emotion. So far I’ve gone for a “halfway compromise” where I use some pitch correction but not on every single note and on the ones where I do use it I tune it somewhere towards the halfway point of what was sung and “where the line is”. So basically just tighten it slightly but keep the original performance intact and have the end result sound “natural”. It probably would be fine without any meddling with the pitch but there’s also the fear of “having to comply with industry standards” so I haven’t dared to fully go without melodyne. 🥹

[@RupertReynolds1962]

As a computer programmer (and part-time bus driver!) I applaud your stance--partly because I feel 'art' is often the thing that happens in the gap between what the artist desires and what they find easy. Reaching that bit further can be where the beauty shines through. Mechanical accuracy is NOT art. Art is a process.

[@edwilliams2201]

This is perfect for me to help explain to my wife - I can hear equal temperament and my wife cannot. It almost hurts my ears while my wife, who is rather tone-deaf, thinks it sounds fine. I can now show her what I mean. Keep up the great work!

[@karmageddon9856]

"Show your intelligence by showing restraint" is one of the best pieces of advice I ever heard from a vocal coach.

[@jimmiemurvin1871]

Stated another way, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

[@nickelndime5]

Years ago I heard Denise Williams sing a gospel song a cappella on the Grammys. It was incredible and the hairs on my arm stood up. The world of music today is a mere shadow of the 1970s and 1980s.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Worse still, is that the music and songs of the 70s and 80s and 90s are being retroactively and posthumously pitch corrected and/or autotuned upon re-releases of albums and when songs are officially uploaded anew to digital platforms and streaming services. Surely we can mount a successful fight to prevent that sort of thing from happening, at the very least! Do you know the song, Nickels and Dimes - a great song recorded by a great Canadian band of the late seventies, PRiSM?

[@behindthemirrorofmusic4351]

​@@elizabethmiller7291 So that IS happening!! I thought so as some songs sound off when I played them recently but sounded fine when playing a KZbin upload someone created from a record.

[@superlove35]

it's like turning real plants into plastic flowers.

[@BH-h6l]

Great analogy!

[@ZER0--]

Guilding a lily...

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

...and watering them.

[@periel]

Good analogy. Can you imagine them putting auto tune or pitch correction on Joni Mitchell? So gross. It’s became “industry standard” 🤮

[@Coverswithchords1]

And people do buy it. This is why.

[@BH-h6l]

A few of my fellow dinos might remember that Queen's first few albums had a little notice on them bragging that no synthesizers had been used in the making of the music. I think that might have been done to showcase the effort they went to in the studio, especially on Queen 2 (probably their most ambitious album) to create effects using only Brian May's guitar genius and analog effects. That disclaimer was dropped later, (maybe Night At The Opera, I don't recall) and they eventually joined the synthesizer trend. I think what we need now is a label that proudly bears a notice that no pitch correction was used in the making of the music. But then again, in this industry lies have become so commonplace it probably wouldn't be true.

[@MrOarson]

Boston was the same as late as Third Stage in the '80s.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

You have hit on something here that I think artists with integrity today - those who have been around for decades before the onslaught of pitch correction and new artists - should start doing! Promote your new albums and songs with the publicly and explicitly stated message that you do not use pitch correction and elaborate on the reasons why. I don't understand why great singers aren't doing this now - with regard to album releases and actual live performances, to set them apart from lesser singers. Are they obligated to go along with the industry standards? I guess the answer to that is 'yes' and that it will be hard to fight back against that and buck the trend but that is what has to happen if we have any hope of saving real music from oblivion.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

What saddens me to no end is that Brian May apparently not only approves of pitch correcting Freddie's voice but loves the sound of it. It almost makes me think that we real music lovers may have already lost the fight to save real music from oblivion.

[@nessy9022]

Cool idea! I always liked that detail on the packaging. Day at the Races was the last album to feature the disclaimer, although there were still no synths on News of the World and Jazz.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@MrOarson Sorry, what is happening here was decidedly NOT happening in the eighties.

[@RachelLWolfe]

"So I'm going to jump in here.... immediately..." Say no more sir. 😂

[@nicholasbartonlaw341]

And there is somewhere some kid in a coffeehouse with an acoustic guitar pouring her heart out performing this song, singing maybe a little flat, maybe a little raw, but singing it earnestly and really connecting with the audience, but who goes on unknown and unheard by the world.

[@andrewmole745]

I really like the way that you praise their evident talent, and I think it is really important that we consider when a pitch-corrected song is no longer truly “a cappella”.

[@chthoniapodcast]

Couldn't recognise this one as Bridge Over Troubled Waters. It's weird, even as a so-called capella version. Doesn't deserve a Grammy, but then again, the Grammys are more of an industry thing that have to do with sales rather than talent.

[@arturwittensoeltner8729]

Cut a fart on record, it sells a million, and you'll get a Grammy for it! If that fart track is featured in enough movies and sells even more millions, you'll get an Oskar on top for best fart in a farty mainstream-film.

[@zman5581]

@@arturwittensoeltner8729 She should apologize to farts everywhere for this rendition.

[@cedartree816]

yeah, I'm generally not a fan when these divas load up perfect wonderful songs with runs. In this case, regardless of the quality of her voice, she's ruined a classic song.

[@nemocookfan6961]

Please go listen to the Grammy-nominated recording, which this is NOT. This video Fil analyzed is basically a Grammy advertisement. The nominated cover track is incredible - Is it innovative? Yep - but IMO, fully worthy of the original S&G version, which I have long loved.

[@junglecat7263]

@@nemocookfan6961 so you think slowed down, pretentiously overdramatic, and digitally processed to sound like a robot is "incredible"?

[@itwasntme8770]

Never mind pitch correction, it’s a woeful bit of soulless screeching . Warbling up and down 3 or 4 notes when one would have done.

[@augustsnowfall5189]

Yea, even with pitch correction it sounded off and it was out of place regardless!

[@kelson63100]

Omg…exactly! Emotionless, over-the-top…just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Ugh!

[@Terri_MacKay]

Oh, that warbling up and down notes, so that a singer can "show off" their chops, drives me crazy. It's unnecessary, irritating to listen to, and just drags out a song for no reason. It's like listening to a singer try to make the Star Spangled Banner "their own". This version is terrible, like she's made it so much more complicated than it should be, instead of singing a clean version that shows off her natural voice. She may have a great voice, but this video wouldn't make me want to listen to anything else by her.

[@petermcmillan3446]

As Salieri said: 'Too many notes!'

[@Clodhopping]

Melisma

[@barryrahn5957]

I'm not a fan of people doing runs that go so far from the original melody that you forget what you're listening to.

[@alisong2328]

I agree. It's like the way people butcher the Star Spangled Banner! 🇺🇸

[@Sesheria1]

Me too Mariah Carey was an early promoter of this.

[@bobbwest]

Runs are gilding the lily, autotuned runs are an abomination. Who thinks this is good? Since when has the music industry become slaves to conformity, no matter how hideous it it.

[@roberthaynes8830]

Exactly. Respect the song. I can't stand listening to that way of singing.

[@sinhueherrera8984]

@@Sesheria1hmm Mariah Carey did runs that actually went well with the songs, plus don’t forget she is the one who actually writes her own songs too. The difference with Mariah and all these new rnb and pop singers is that they show all these runs out of their huge egos, while Mariah would do runs based on how her voice/feelings were at the moment.

[@ideasmatter4737]

I have told people I don’t like acapella groups, but I’m realizing it’s the pitch correction that gives it an unnatural buzzing sound that makes my ears and nose and eyes itch! I can listen to old recordings of choirs and barbershop quartets without any symptoms at all!

[@dawnlemasney5366]

In classical singing, we sometimes use overtones to affect pitch perception. The fundamental pitch is just one piece of the sound. As i watch your videos, i often wonder what these sounds would look like on a vocal spectrograph. Thanks for bringing this to light!

[@Epic501]

indeed, seeing a waterfall alongside this pitch tracking fundamental line would be very interesting

[@TheAshumms]

Check out spectrograms like Voice Print or Voce Vista and you can see the overtones :)

[@canturgan]

They should have an 'Assisted Performance ' category in award ceremonies. That would be interesting.

[@rowanchandler6841]

100% yes.

[@PrometheanRising]

And the vocal award for the vocalist who cannot really sing goes to...

[@wernerclarssen2939]

👍 New category: Songs without autotune

[@zipitrik1]

If you do this 0 songs will be in other categories since 100% of songs of 100% of artist are touched. Whenever you don't ear it , that just means they did it properly and with caution but I can assure you that every artist big enough to be in an award ceremony is retouched nowadays....

[@sootikins]

Something like the special olympics of music?

[@michaelnaretto3409]

In my opinion, she destroyed a classic.

[@rkk578]

I have never understood this fetish of this "Mariah Carey-type" million notes and slides all over the place for no reason other than to people praise them for their singing abilities.

[@arnewoodman]

Have to agree, the arguments about pitch correction aside, its not an enjoyable cover, however talented they are as singers.

[@cooljp1531]

This is an example of polishing a turd. It is a turd ( not the song, their version of it ) to begin with then you polish it ( pitch correct ) and you have a polished turd. And no she can't sing. Somebody who cannot understand how to sing is not a good singer no matter how high a note you can hit. This is equivalent to a fast guitar player just running up and down a scale as fast as possible with zero phrasing.

[@Bellbird-y9g]

@@rkk578 I agree with the Mariah reference. I sometimes wonder if these people can sustain a straight note. Even so, to be using this particular technique 30 years on from Mariah's Vision of Lunch is just silly. It's a thing that's been done and done and no one is impressed anymore.

[@corneliapopescu52]

​@@Bellbird-y9g OUI ,d'accord avec vous ! Quand 26:55 c'est trop c'est trop ! Ça gâche tout ! Pour moi c'est même agaçant !!! Nelly, Belgique. 😊

[@jennastorm4785]

This isn't vocal runs, this is vocal diarrhea. Just because a singer CAN do this, doesn't mean that they SHOULD do it.

[@wernerkl4036]

Vocal diarreh. 😂😂😂😂

[@keenanvil]

🙄

[@ivinceible5962]

Hahahaha. I was about to say vocal vomit.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

In ornamentation, taste is as important as agility.

[@angelabrolund1373]

Yes, I would say vocal gymnastics. Also sounds more like pitchy not pitch corrected.

[@westpalmone670]

What he said 👏 this reminds me of when quantizing became the norm, the problem is when the younger generation get used to a certain format pushed by the industry ,there is always the danger that this format becomes accepted as the natural norm, and when they hear a truly talented artist with real inconsistencies and variations within timing and pitch, they are unable to appreciate the beauty of a raw unprocessed organic performance, (perceiving it as substandard )in other words the true soul is seen (or heard!) as OFF, because their ears have been trained on (so called) “digital” perfection!

[@tussk.]

When I was studying for my diploma in music production, one of the very first things my tutor told me was that Melisma is a warm up technique, not a singing style, and that you should never _ever_ pitch correct a singer that can actually sing. He used Bob Dylan and Mariah Carey as the example of why you should leave the vocals alone. Bob for his natural off key wailing, and Carey as an example of how a great singer gets autotuned and uses eight notes where one would be more effective. Sadly, that's become the industry standard now.

[@blinksmom]

To all vocal artists out there… When you post your music that is NOT pitch corrected let us know about it. Say so because that is the rarity now days. Why not advertise the fact you don’t use it. It will become a selling point. We will have folks like Fil to keep you honest. I can see a day coming where all posted music will be required to list the ingredients in the meta data as to what filters they used , if its auto tuned or pitch corrected and so forth - Just like on a can of soup….

[@SevennahAlyse]

I'm learning to sing and have posted a few songs to my channel as I chart my progress. Thanks to watching Fil for a long time now, I don't use pitch correction and do state this fact in the descriptions of my cover songs. I also do a kind of ingredients list, showing what I have done in production to get the sound, to sound, as it does.

[@laurakelseymusic]

I don’t pitch correct! 🎉

[@blinksmom]

@@laurakelseymusic I just checked you out. What a beautiful voice. Can’t believe you don’t have more views or subscribers. Soulful and easy listening Linda Ronstadt vibes.

[@blinksmom]

@@SevennahAlyse Ahhh honey looks like you just started. You have in interesting almost old timey French singer tone to your voice. It’s just the beginning of your journey. Keep it up and enjoy the learning process. I am 67 years old and just started my journey to learning the drums LOL. My goal is to learn Enter the Sandman by Metallica! If I accomplish my goal I’ll die a happy grandma!

[@laurakelseymusic]

@ That’s very kind of you, thank you!

[@BH-h6l]

"Everything is possible, but nothing is real" - Living Colour 'Type', 1990

[@guyjiminjapan9824]

Pitch corrected or not, to my ears this was a real hatchet job on a beautiful song.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

100%

[@grmmmmhpph]

Multi-octave runs do not improve the original.

[@bradnelson3595]

That's the elephant in the room. That was a horrible performance.

[@MaxG-jk8ty]

I heard it on his channel and turned it off midway. I almost felt insulted. I generally enjoy his insights and have been subscribed for years. I think he got lost in his vision and stubbornly continued. Definitely disappointing regardless.

[@carriejones2231]

I didn't know this happened and I wish I had never heard it. That was an abomination of a beautiful song. She sounds so plastic.

[@caroliamurri3872]

Fil, I'm learning so much from your analyses! Thank you for showing a lay person what an unfortunate way music is being sung. 💓

[@NotMarkKnopfler]

It reminds me of Maria "why sing one note when 450 will do" Carey.

[@TripleGeminiLife]

"Ain't nothing like the real thing baby" and "Is it Live or is it Memorex?" comes to my mind as a Seattle rocking teenager in the 1970s-to this day. Keep(ing) it REAL ❤️‍🔥

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Ever get up to Vancouver during those heady days!?

[@vidthreenorth4007]

Actually, I didn't like it anyway. The arrangement was overdone and missed the soul of the song. I would not care how "good" the voices were, it was tasteless.

[@Amaranthine1000]

I agree, it seemed more like vocal acrobatics rather than emotive singing with feeling. The pitch correction just made it even worse.

[@somewhat.random]

If you listen to anything by Jacob Collier, you'll realize where that comes from. He does this kind of thing all the time, where he allows his supreme technical ability to completely destroy the artistry(soul) of the music. He's got a version of Billy Joel's "And So It Goes" that his fans crow about, and it is one of the worst things I've ever heard. Why? Because he takes something that is beautiful BECAUSE it's simple, and needlessly adds meaningless complexity. This all goes back to Collier, and his particular style.

[@stacyrynd7110]

I heard Johnny Cash and Fiona Apple do this song yesterday. It was a treat.

[@ashildrtheswift3028]

Yeah, it was way too much

[@gunther4024]

@@Amaranthine1000 Yes, 100%.

[@rowanrobbins]

I don't know how Fil got through this hideous catterwalling mess! I don't even recognize this as the song it's supposed to be!☹🙉

[@brianlojeck]

Some songs are so well done, the first time, that NOBODY needs to try and cover them. Even Paul Simon's solo version of "Bridge" pales in comparison to the Simon and Garfunkel version.

[@uiop60]

I’ve started to listen specifically for the texture of vibrato in highly produced music. Vibrato is ideally an amplitude fluctuation, but it does inevitably come with some pitch waver. A breathy vibrato that’s crushed to a constant frequency develops a distinct kind of grittiness to it. It’s all over Ariana Grande’s production

[@Steph-o5s]

Sorry to say she just mangled a classic.

[@markorchard2272]

For sure her voice is impressive..... but she is MURDERING this song.

[@zebpettyninja]

@Steph-o5s yup, it's the "simple ", beautiful melody of the original song that does it for me. This cover is just like showing off how cool they are.

[@danieltalebi1040]

why are you saying she as if she composed this? this was jacob collier's production, she sang it excellently

[@bryanbrock4298]

I find it absolutely mesmerizing

[@hhoi8225]

She performed the arrangement, which is Jacob's. He has a kind of cold eye toward meaning and often sacrifices it for technical achievement. So this is, unfortunately, representative.

[@arvidlinden5292]

If the Formula 1 drivers had computers driving their cars for them, correcting any small mistake and teaching itself the course, would anyone accept it?

[@michelvanbriemen3459]

That's exactly why they banned traction control in F1 after running it for some years.

[@alanmon2690]

Or you take a very difficult examination to become a medical profeseional and all your answers are corrected by AI.

[@TheBrubaker2]

Like changing gears?

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@alanmon2690 AI assisted surgery is already a thing. Learning to work with it is becoming more important than memorizing volumes of facts that can be found easily on a phone today.

[@RichardSFord]

@@TheBrubaker2 Semi-automatic gearboxes should have been banned when they came out in '89. Changing gear was once an integral part of driving the car. Now they just bang down the gears effortlessly like they are using a Playstation controller. All the skill is gone.

[@ebojager]

Great video, loved the Actual Voice segment, really shows the differences in what your saying.

[@Kohbruh]

As a musician i appreciate runs because it showcases the artists knowledge of theory. I really love it when artists and musicians incorporate obscure scales and color

[@theTrend7]

99% of the people in this comment section hate runs etc,because of who is doing it,but they won't be honest about it. Agree with you good runs say so much about a great vocalist and how much work they've put into their craft

[@HallieWiseleyCraig]

@@theTrend7So disliking aimless vocal gymnastics is racist now? 😂

[@Kohbruh]

@@HallieWiseleyCraig calling them aimless may mean you don't have sight of the target. Just a thought. Don't forget music is art, art is subjective. Judging by your pretentiousness you must be a musician too. 🤣🤣🤣

[@justintime42000]

I’m a singer and I hate excessive runs. They distort the melody and do nothing except show a vocalist’s flexibility/facility. I studied opera as a coloratura so I understand the importance of vocal facility but it’s not as beautiful or heart wrenching as singing a melody straight and holding out notes. A few well placed runs are more impactful than phrase after phrase of them. At least to my sensibilities. Today singers are over-reliant on runs. It’s a matter of taste I suppose. Whitney Houston would be lost in today’s excessive run vocal culture if she were still with us. To me, it’s not a good thing when speed and excessive notes overshadow the beauty and feeling in slower melodic phrasing with some phrasing being faster/more notes. I feel the same, whether it’s a lead guitarist playing or a singer singing. Sometimes less really is more.

[@Kohbruh]

@@justintime42000 that's a fair assessment. I often view it as a showcase of learned skill and talent. Sort of like a slam dunk contest. I wouldn't want to watch a game of dunks but it's fun to watch guys jump out of the gym. I watched Kelly Clarkson's version of a Jazmine Sullivan song where she did virtually none of the runs Jazmine is known for and appreciated the straight forward approach almost as much as the original. There is a time and a place for it I suppose. I will say that it's often overused to cover up the inability to sustain pitch, and that is indeed bothersome.

[@chrissymoss514]

A capella is, excuse the pun, music to my ears. A pitch corrected version is so wrong that I have no words to express my feelings!! Give me a song full of soul and heart and emotions and I'm hooked. Thanks Fil, this was, as usual, a five star video 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@chillnophone2024]

Keep up your great work❣️💯 It matters to so many of us❣️💙 Thanks, Fil❣️🎯

[@maureendrozda9960]

YESSSS!!!✊✊✊

[@trekkiejunk]

Even if she wasn't pitch-corrected, i couldn't stand listening to her sing. I can barely hear the song with her trying to show off with her goofy ups and downs all over the place. Just sing the damn song, and sing it well!

[@MICHAELMcCARTHY-h7f]

Well said. To be honest, I didn't recognise the song...the beautiful song!

[@Milin1977]

Agreed

[@WoefulMinion]

Jacob was feeding Tori sections of the runs, so it's not just Tori. It's Jacob's arrangement. He's very talented, but I don't feel this piece honors the spirit of the song.

[@margieguild519]

Total ruination of a truly beautiful song. Art Garfunkel's version is so perfect that this is an abomination. Change for the sake of being different. Just awful.

[@rambler5766]

Listen to Sissel and Russel Watson's version of this song. No comparison.

[@Dan-dg9pi]

At one point in our past, music used to sound beautiful. Does anyone else remember that too?

[@DAVID-io9nj]

Still many great musicians performing. Just not on MSM.

[@credenza1]

Think of a simple, flawed voice like Marianne Faithful, or the intimate revelations of Joni Mitchell, or even the raw and unfiltered wailings of Joplin. This woman's perfromance is perfectly awful.

[@Dan-dg9pi]

@@DAVID-io9nj I think the current musicians who are great are not the ones that the music industry spends all the money on to autotune and pitch correct. What baffles me is that 50 years ago, the top pop singers were at least easy to listen to even if one liked a different genre. The top of the pops today are just - for the most part - unlistenableBut as you say, some of the indy bands are really good and talented..

[@RobertoCarlos-tn1iq]

music peaked in the 1950s with american jazz. after that . . . john lennon - double track vocals beach boys - electronic synthesizers led zeppelin - 24 track overdubs justin beiber - auto tune.

[@ChadDippyDora]

I have heard that (hearing) perfect pitch is both a gift and a curse. You can hear all the mistakes and imperfections that others can’t. Also as you age your perfect pitch can go off pitch making everything sound off! I don’t have perfect pitch, but after watching so many of Fil’s videos (and subscribing Fil!) I can now hear pitch corrected singing and it’s both a gift and a curse! I guess I could always sense something was a bit false, fake or just wrong and I avoid consciously what I now know to be pitch corrected dirge. Thanks Fil, you are a star and I really appreciate everything you are doing. Please keep it up.

[@rectangulardots]

Oh man, that‘s so sad actually! When I hear those unprocessed vocals, it sounds amazing and it evokes emotions, while the processed track just gets rid of all of that. Great video. I hope at some point we arrive back at being able to hear great singers!

[@Tom_Emody]

Organic music fan here. Please be original everyone…please be yourself. Do the world a favor and let us hear your original voice. Thank you …Tom

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Most times the job of the musician is to set his personality aside and be the means through which the composer's intentions, manifested in squiggles on paper, are realized in sound.

[@benmacdhui]

How the music industry ruined music for all

[@ralphditchburn1456]

The grammars too. Noooo

[@benmacdhui]

​@@ralphditchburn1456 Fixed. Feel better? Lol

[@benmacdhui]

​@@ralphditchburn1456 Fixed. Feel better now?

[@BlueM-o2b]

All people have to do is pretty much what they're doing, releasing and selling their own stuff. The next step is to stop feeding the machine. Not enough people are doing this. People are paying $14k to see Taylor Swift "perform," and even less popular or older groups for $400+. If record companies can make money for trash, why wouldn't they? They're businesses, not artists. I don't understand why anyone would arrange this song with such a treatment. The singer isn't even conveying the message or underlying melody of the music. If this is to honor the song, why is she just randomly vocalizing totally unrelated runs? You lose the song and the point of it. She's just doing vocal exercises.

[@ralphditchburn1456]

@@BlueM-o2b well said

[@mesamom62]

Just my opinion, but I believe a capella should be able to be sung live. It's what our choir worked so hard to do in high school. And when I go to hear an a capella group live it's because I want to hear their voices live, without the layering done in the studio. I want to see their personalities through their music. And if there is a mistake here or there, that's ok. In concert, it's the human element I think many of us want to experience.

[@roberthaynes8830]

Amen to that.

[@Joshsclips]

she performs this live all the time lol

[@nakitahorton6598]

They have performed this live and it’s incredible

[@susanherbert3805]

There should be a law to save classic songs from this type of destruction .

[@Elbownian]

That overwrought style of singing is just gilding the lilly, and runs the enjoyment of simple beautiful melodies.

[@alanbutterworth4219]

It removes everything that is human. That is the point.

[@aquamarine99911]

Yup. It's a feature, not a bug.

[@credenza1]

Modernism - all the results of Modernism are pastiche or parody. The spirit of inspiration has fled.

[@ilangayouthdanceco.3621]

Sounds like she is practicing her scales and arpeggios. To be honest, not really my favourite version of a superb song, but could accept it if it sounded like a human was singing it with emotion, rather than singing it like an exercise in vocal gymnastics.

[@prestwickpioneer3474]

I'm almost scared to say her voice does nothing for me. Rather see Shara Nova singing this.

[@moopet8036]

I've never understood the trend for vocal runs like, "how many notes can I fit into this space".

[@abc456f]

It's just too much. I'd rather listen to Karen Carpenter, any day.

[@stevepower1372]

I was hoping there would be a comment like this, cos I couldn't quite pull the right words together. There's no doubt she has vocal skills, but this version of BOTW is (for me) quite awful, just warbling unecessarily around the already beautiful melody.

[@BlueM-o2b]

Aw, I posted my good comment saying this in reply to someone else. But another tick in the column of those who want to hear a song (especially in a ceremony to "honor" it) than some girl repeating several words just to ride the vocal escalators as if to avoid boredom. What a slap in the face for this incredible song.

[@SeaBU1SCW_ret]

I feel sorry for the song. With or without pitch correction.

[@Menehune3461]

I'm curious as to why is that you feel sorry for the song

[@SeaBU1SCW_ret]

@ the original was beautiful. She mangled it into an unrecognizable vocal exercise.

[@Menehune3461]

@ I wouldn't blame her for that would be the direction that Jacob Collier wanted her to go since he's a producer of this song he orchestrated the riffs that she did and Nurse video of it hurt him, teaching her what he wanted. And even then, I would argued that these pieces of art when released into society, it would be very boring to have the same piece every time there's definitely integral space that should be held for the original orchestration.. but I think it's important that we let music evolve and create new life and breathe new life into these classic pieces. And this is coming from someone who doesn't care for excessive. Mellisimas as well. I definitely think there's a time and place for it. And like he said in the video, Tori has a very expressive tone that is very delightful truly. And when she performs this live, it's next level. And there's an artistry to be said with that not everyone can hit scales like that. I think it is settles down to personal preference at that point.

[@kevonwill5783]

If you don’t like the arrangement that’s okay please don’t listen to

[@SeaBU1SCW_ret]

@@kevonwill5783 I didn’t.

[@WoodlandT]

It’s really misguided that so many comments are attacking Tori, accusing her of ruining this classic tune. She was singing exactly what Jacob wrote for her to sing, verbatim. None of this was her creation. I know people have very divided opinions about vocal runs. And that’s fair. But these runs aren’t even representative of the way she utilizes runs in her own music. Tori uses them heavily, but she has great musicality and an astonishingly agile voice. All these “bizarre” and unexpected runs are a product of Jacob’s creativity, not Tori’s. So why is everyone attacking her? Make it make sense

[@douglascaskey7302]

Because any self respecting artist would have said "NO... I'm not singing it that way."

[@colinmcmb]

So it's a joint enterprise fuckup?

[@roberthaynes8830]

@@douglascaskey7302 Just what I was going to say. She obviously approves because she sang the way she was told to.

[@HughConnor2001]

@@douglascaskey7302 Out of interest, have you listened to the song or have you just seen what's in this video?

[@CabinetPlasma-q8z]

women are easy to hate that's why

[@lmullens75]

Did you see Lady Gaga's interview recently with Rolling Stone? She was going over the behind the scenes production of "Disease" and talking about using Melodyne (how's it spelled?) to make it sound more poppy and dance/dj style (paraphrasing). I thought it was amazing that the artist talked about having her own vocal auto-tuned for the sake of the style of the song. I mean, she's amazing and has sung the song stripped down, but the full on dance version on the album lent itself to auto-tune.

[@Mandy7D7]

She's always up front about things. Sometimes painfully so 😆 but she's very real. And with a voice she could've done anything with. A fantastic artist and person.

[@yvonnevanwaegeningh-tiggel4577]

For a dance version of the song, just using it as a cool special effect, I totally get it. So glad they were also very honest about it. That's how it should be. A great example for others...

[@richardjones3242]

Alicia Keys said something similar. She also adds it to the notes of songs she has used on. No deception. Both Lady Gaga and Alicia Keys can sing. It doesn't make them better except in occasions for style but not as vocalists.

[@felixmarques]

It makes perfect sense. Some genres of music have a very industrial quality, and snapping the notes into the grid works better than otherwise. You want to be extremely precise with tuning, especially in order to get specific timbres when you're doubling takes, getting it to blend with synths… and it's not even necessarily about making the pitch “perfect”-I've used Melodyne to fine-tune my vocals and sometimes it's actually about getting them a little sharper or flatter than perfect for expressive or flavorful reasons.

[@johnwest7993]

Pitch correction turns boiling music into 'simmering' music. How to turn the human voice into a digital musical instrument. It's artificial and dead.

[@abc456f]

It's a MIDI vocal, basically.

[@haleykay776]

A few years ago I got to hear Tori in a sound check and I was absolutely blown away.... what a talent

[@elizabethmiller7291]

So how do you feel about what is being done to destroy her great natural voice?

[@atomdecay]

Must've been nice to hear a robot sing live lmao.

[@ChrisM541]

I bet you're not blown away with the shocking level of auto tuning of her voice here.

[@davidduff5123]

What happened?

[@Proghead88]

​@@elizabethmiller7291you should watch Jacob's Logic session breakdown and his recording session video with her and actually learn how it was done and how naturally she actually sings like this without any autotune. There really isn't as much autotune as people think here. She's just that good, and on top of that, Jacob told her what to sing note for note, as he imagined it in a saxophone or guitar-like solo as part of a much longer piece where she only shows up at the end. The story of this recording is way more interesting than you see here.

[@BigBri550]

Back in the '80s, I had a homemade analog recording studio in which I would experiment with things like pitch-matching. In other words, I would sing along with another track where the notes played with minimum oscillation on a tone generator (i.e. synthesizer), and I would try to match the pitch of it on the actual vocal track for greater accuracy. Of course, it certainly wasn't 100% efficient, but it worked surprisingly well. Then, for comparison, I would retry the vocal without pitch-matching. The vast majority of the time I would prefer the unmatched pitch track because I sang less carefully and more viscerally. I eventually grew less interested in the pitch correction process because it was a lot of time and effort put into something that typically produced less satisfying results than just belting it out.

[@CabinetPlasma-q8z]

This was Jacob's arrangement. He was feeding the runs to Tori, she was only following what Jacob intended her to do. Tori is also a musician and her runs in her own songs are very tasteful and full of musicality. I didn't understand why I was never a fan of Jacob when he's clearly very talented, but I guess this is the reason.

[@christishusbandakastan7618]

That is easily the worst rendition of one of my favorite songs. Just horrible.

[@matthewjamestaylor]

Pitch correction is an esthetic choice and for many of us a poor one. And for me as well, this much ornamentation is jarring and another poor esthetic choice. They are part of the same decision process. Cheers.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@matthewjamestaylor That may be true for you and many others but, as far as calling it jarring, isn't that a subjective opinion and for everyone of us who doesn't like this style of singing there will be someone else who loves it. When we are discussing something as important as what the music industry as a whole has done and is doing to obliterate real music, don't you think that subjective comments that disparage an artist are quite out of place underneath an informative analysis video that faithfully provides us with the objective facts and the plain truth about the destruction and deception that passes for standard operating procedures throughout the music industry today?

[@louisramosa]

Yes, it would be awful with or without pitch correction

[@silverclive]

Sounds like she is in pain.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

The one problem associated with Fil's instructive analysis videos here on KZbin where comments sections are not turned off is that there are always a bunch of commenters who can't seem to resist their misguided urges to disparage an artist. Music is such a subjective thing - what one person may love another will not want to listen to. You know, singers are sensitive souls who can be quite vulnerable to disparaging remarks just like the one I am now responding to. But, I see, you have lots of similarly disposed company. It's unfortunate. Worse than unfortunate is that such comments disparaging artists are the very kind of sentiments expressed by others who purport to be music lovers that may be at the root of why many artists feel the need for a safety net and resort to using tactics like pitch correction and lip-syncing performances. I hope you and others like you will one day understand the horrible impact that a plethora of those kinds of comments can have.

[@Heightsomethinghuman]

Fil, you stated exactly what pitch correction sounds like when a singer is doing runs and hitting every note dead on… makes me think they can’t sing! They sound like piano keys with a human like voice.’Talkbox’ !!!

[@Cashcrop54]

Even my unexperienced ears could hear the little "warps" in the voice when the process was in those rapid variations. Almost sounded like a small car horns honk. It's criminal. The fact that none of the offenders has contact you and give an explanation for this says volumes! Thanks Fil. Keep up the exposing what is happening.

[@abramfoster2]

I'm a musician who appreciates this version and also who prefers the original, although I dissent from and am somewhat shocked by some of the remarks in this extremely aggressive comment section. A lot of the information out there about pitch correction is wrong, and while nothing in this video seemed incorrect to me, it confirms biases that I think may be based on misinformation. For whatever it's worth, I'd like to share a few observations. 1. I'm not certain, but the audio in the video seems like it's been thru some post-processing beyond this record as one can hear it on streaming (even if it's just aggressive video compression or weird file conversion) and ultimately I think these vocals sound more unnatural in this video than they do on the record. 2. We live in an era of higher-fidelity audio than we did when Simon & Garfunkel recorded their version, with the possibility of much greater sonic specificity, and unedited vocals just don't fit in to those incredibly specific arrangements of sound in the way edited vocals do. Listening to a lot of this sort of recording has sensitized a lot of ears, particularly younger ears, to subtleties of pitch to a point where people however consciously expect perfect pitch accuracies from pop recording artists. 3. Thus, just about *everything* even remotely tied to popular music nowadays is pitch edited. Even when artists sing live, they often sing with live auto-tune, including older artists who may have originally recorded without pitch-correction but may not have the vocal control they used to. 4. Singing with pitch correction does *NOT* mean the artist can't sing without it. Look at the Tiny Desk concerts for proof of that-- but note that those are live acoustic arrangements which aren't as aesthetically associated with pitch-perfect vocals 5. While there are some artists such as Billie Eilish who have made it part of their brand that they don't pitch correct their recordings, this does not mean the vocal isn't edited. Pitch-edited or not, vocals are almost always "comped" by stitching together parts of different takes to really put the best foot forward. They were even doing some of that back when Simon & Garfunkel were recording! Very occasionally an artist will nail the vocal in one take (I think there are a couple Adele songs like that) but that's an exception and nobody really assumes that's going to happen when they go into a recording studio. 6. What always matters isn't *that* it's pitch edited, what matters is *how well* it's pitch edited -- including all popular a cappella recordings (Pentatonix, etc.). It's much easier to snap a note right to the equal temperament pitch (because there's an algorithm that does that for you) than it is to shape the line in a way that seems more human, for which you have to go in and address each note (or even parts of each note!) individually. Since Collier produces extremely maximalist music, and often stacks his own vocals in the hundreds, he may have judged that his time was better spent elsewhere and opted for a faster approach with tuning this vocal 7. Tori Kelly has since sung this live but was learning this part as she recorded it, and didn't have the time to practice it as she went. She's a professional and is accustomed to having her vocals edited, and so undoubtedly focused in this recording session on the nuances of her vocal which can't be fixed in the computer such as timbre, breathiness and vibrato-- over pitch accuracy, which can. And as to people's gripes with the riffing: Is this arrangement overly flashy? Is Collier's maximalist choral arrangement out of sorts with the R&B vocal stylings of the soloists? That's up to you and anyone else to decide. But don't dismiss Collier for trying something different. You don't get any of the music you *do* like without a great deal of experimentation, and whether this cover works for you or it doesn't, you can't deny that Collier and his collaborators are great experimenters and even if they never hit something you like, they might inspire someone who will. I recently finished Malcolm Gladwell's audio book interview/career retrospective with Paul Simon, Miracle and Wonder-- and Simon talked about several different versions of this song, and how it lead him into a decades-long struggle to pen an arrangement for the song he thought his own vocal would fit well into, which ultimately is wildly different from the arrangement Art Garfunkel sang on. A pop song isn't a piece of classical music with one "correct" way to perform it, and it's the culture of reinterpretation and experimental trial and error that make that song stand the test of time. "Bridge Over Troubled Water" is a great song, and if you prefer the original, no one's taking the original away from you. Go listen to it!

[@elizabethmiller7291]

A truly excellent comment that was a distinct pleasure to read! I'm going to digest this for a while. Would love to see this one 'pinned' to the top of this comments section because that is where it belongs. Thanks!

[@joeflip2993]

Pitch correction sucks. The original didn't need it. Like Fil said, she's better than this, even if I don't like this version. You may think thiis is normal, but my friend it's unnatural

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Where did your point #8 and #9 go? Re. #8: I would just say that it's one thing to use pitch correcting your own vocals as a way to improve your pitch accuracy but it's quite another to keep using it and never let us hear your unedited vocals. As Fil said, it okay to pitch monitor your vocals to help you get to a high level of pitch accuracy. But, once you get there, burn your pitch monitor and leave it behind for good! :) Re. #9: I can't agree that all pitch correction does is make music accessible to more people. Pitch corrected vocals, when we are talking about a great singer, leaves out all that makes a great singer's voice beautiful and unique and expressive - all the things that allow a human listener to connect on an emotional level with a human voice.

[@abramfoster2]

​@@elizabethmiller7291 My mistake! If anyone's looking, the big thing I added was an analogy to the innovation of the microphone for non-operatic live singing. Responding to your point, the big thing which I think this misses is the fact, as I said before, that a good pitch edit (even in the cleanest pop music) doesn't snap everything to equal temperament and is supposed to be relatively transparent. And, as I'll get to in a minute, on a more fundamental level it kind of can't. When I edit vocals for production my goal is always to accentuate and reveal those things that makes a singer's voice beautiful and unique and expressive. That's FAR from only pitch. Think about how much can be added emotionally to a performance by a mix engineer with a fader-- one can influence the actual phrasing of the music that way, or even create phrasing where there isn't any! Not to mention my aforementioned set of things that can't be edited in the computer at all-- breathiness, timbre and vibrato-- which are crucial to a performance and some of the main things a great singer in any genre/style may be manipulating consciously through their vowel shape and "placement." But also when you get down to the nitty-gritty of it, if you snap a note to the equal temperament pitch in melodyne you're only snapping the average pitch of the vibrato to that note-- the actual pitch of the vocal will only be exactly on the equal temperament pitch in a tiny fraction of the samples in the audio file, even if the vocalist is singing relatively "straight-tone." And the human ear perceives pitch accuracy much more with the loudest parts of the note, (and sometimes the end of the note) so even if you want a vocal to sound like perfect equal temperament, sometimes snapping the average pitch of the note to a pitch doesn't actually sound like the desired pitch and you have to go in and adjust to the more important parts of the note. Of course, if one wanted the auto-tune T-Pain/Cher effect that's still available, but that's not what anyone's discussing in this comment section. Personally when I have the time (which I sometimes don't) I try to edit lead vocals just with my ear, by starting and stopping and fixing notes that sound off-- without watching the precise pitch of the line. And if I do edit a note, I bear in mind where it's sitting. If a singer's already right in the ballpark of the just intonation pitch (most importantly -14% of a semitone for major thirds and +2% of a semitone for fifths) I may try to honor that tuning or sometimes tune it to halfway between there and equal so the vibrato regularly hits both tunings. And with background vocals, if they're very straight-tone I do sometimes tune things specifically to more tempered tunings if that's a color I'm looking for. But as per the advice of legendary a cappella mixer Ed Boyer I try not to worry too much about systems of tuning there, because the vibrato will generally encompass both tunings anyway and there are many more pressing issues to worry about, such as nasty out-of-sync vibrato and messy glide and phrasing that can really ruin the cohesion of a background part, and can even alter the perception of the identity of the chord or even the mode-- especially when you're working with multiple vocalists rather than one stacked vocalist (which is the case when you'd most need to worry about it sounding "synthy"). What BGV editing always comes down to is that vocalists can adjust to each other very precisely in a room to make a chord "ring" but if you want the highest fidelity audio of that performance and any flexibility in the mixing stage you really need to record everyone individually, which loses all the natural adjustment people would make to one another and *must* be compensated for in the editing stage if you want the vocals to be up to professional standards. Note that although there are professional chamber singers who record all together as a group, they aren't trying to emulate the sound of instruments the way contemporary a cappella singers do-- which requires much more finesse in the mixing stage to land properly when you're right up close to the vocal the way you are in a recording. Many of the most famous and revered pop vocal producers today (Kuk Harrell, Max Martin, etc.) are singers themselves (Kuk Harrell has said it's impossible if you aren't one!) and editing allows them to collaborate with the singer on the interpretation of the vocal on a very precise level. There are also some singers (Ariana Grande for instance) who like to be completely in control of their own vocal production and again, that's about getting the interpretation of the song up to the standards of one's ear beyond what one can achieve exclusively with one's instrument (in this case one's voice). There's a thousand things in recorded music which go beyond the specificity of what can be achieved live-- why should there be a double standard for vocal pitch?

[@elizabethmiller7291]

It's not a double standard. Changing vocal pitch is not like any other vocal effect. It is not enhancing a vocal but rather changing the voice itself into something that didn't exist. Worse, it is removing all the attributes of a great singer's voice that give it unique personality, expression and emotional storytelling capacity - all of the things that make connecting with a song on an emotional level possible for real music lovers. I'll be back later with a more comprehensive response to your latest non-brief comment! So glad there are no word limits here, self-imposed or otherwise. 😁

[@jaydenbamberger]

Because Jacob's music is more about pushing limitations of what we know about music, it often ends up unpalatable. It's not my first choice but I can appreciate it for what it's trying to do

[@universalassociates6857]

It’s time for a massive letter writing emailing social media campaign address to the producers the artists, the record companies and everyone else involved the Grammys, the AMAs the CMA’s complaining about this disgrace and demanding change!

[@paulwilson6260]

Sign me up

[@Kat-I-am3333]

As if... 🥴 (It's by design, wakey wakey)

[@jesusislukeskywalker4294]

🙏 support independent music .. before we lose it completely ☝️

[@patriziamusic]

the problem is that these runs are just over indulgence on her part just to show off as do other singers who use too many runs with no purpose.. the great maria callas once told a student in her masterclass who added a florid cadenza telling her to stop saying what is all this nonsense? just sing with conviction and dramatic truth... there is no reason to add runs for the purpose of showing off.. I suscribe to Maria Callas school of thought and always applied it in my career.

[@douglascaskey7302]

Sometimes the best note is the one not heard. 🙄

[@roberthaynes8830]

@@douglascaskey7302 Like too much music in movies and TV shows, at an unbearable volume, so you can't hear dialogue.

[@bjorneriksson6480]

who cares, that version was ridiculously over the top tormented whailing, like a parody from spinal tap

[@rayl6901]

Except that Spinal Tap is good, whereas this is garbage

[@Proghead88]

I bet you didn't hear the actual song and just this shorter clip of it. You can't enjoy something fully without context, and without understanding the styles and instruments it was influenced by, especially when it comes to something as personal to people as the voice. Ever thought that you can have a bluesy voice AND a voice that sounds like a jazz saxophonist improvising on the same song, for example? There are many ways to perceive emotion from the voices and chords here. Interesting how so little people in this video's comments don't stop to notice how the harmony Jacob creates and the melodies he create for Tori on purpose, serve an emotional landscape that is uniquely rich and inspiring? Maybe they didn't take the time to truly listen before they were biased by their past or this video's opinion.

[@roberthaynes8830]

@@Proghead88 And yet it sounds crap. Not for me, and many others on here it seems.

[@mpol701]

​@@rayl6901sounded like she was singing at a funeral

[@cheapskate8656]

I'm a pretty average singer, trying to get better. I dont have very good ears and I wouldn't even notice if a note was missed. Listening to both renditions the natural voice just sounded smoother. I was recording myself singing a song yesterday and I had to go from quiet husky to strong and higher pitch. I felt my voice cracking on the way up but got it back on track again. I thought OK, I'll have to rerecord that. However, on listening to it (it wasnt as bad as I imagined) I liked it, it was human. I think there is something in people that likes seeing a bit of a struggle before the victory.

[@michaelkrawczyk6715]

Wow Fil, you are beyond kind, when I close my eyes, I hear a sack of kittens heading down river

[@robertbrowne1084]

Lol

[@Jade-902]

Fil - I posted (in Facebook group) a young lady singing “The Prayer”. No pitch correction. No auto tune. It was beautiful to my ears. I’d rather support local musicals.

[@smkh2890]

The final demand of The Party was "Do not believe your ears !"

[@seanbeadles7421]

1984 is when auto tune

[@SuziQ.]

@@seanbeadles7421, Idk if you’re trying to add to the big brother theme, but auto tune was introduced at the end of 1997.

[@jeskeepinitreal]

a pale soulless ghost of Art Garfunkle's work tbh

[@CraftAero]

Yep. Pitch correction aside, "vocal control" doesn't mean adding multiple notes and slides where there were none. Art could hit AND hold the notes... THAT is vocal control.

[@spiderlily4386]

​@@CraftAeroTrue. The simplicity of Garfunkle's rendition is a large part of its beauty.

[@TheGreatAtario]

*Garfunkel

[@filton12]

"Soulless" is a perfect description.

[@hoosierbud704]

one of the most amazing vocal sounds I have ever heard is Art's first line of this song....."When your down....." It is AMAZING. I've listened to it over and over.....

[@eminor2dee]

Great point about if a pitch corrected vocal track is considered a cappella. I say loudly, no! Thank you, Fil!

[@pierreluniere]

As a pro singer of 50 years, in church choirs, music theatre, rock & funk bands & acoustic folk, solo vox & ensemble vox, live, in studio & home-recording, I relish the opportunity to deviate vocally from tempered scale our tuned instruments demand of us. ‘Blue’ thirds that begin minor & become major are just 1 of the joys of being real. From the time re-tuning was possible I’ve struggled with ‘tampering’ & was overjoyed when Cher took the piss with her ‘yodelled’ melody. I love Jacob & I struggle, like you, with why he’s ‘bending the knee’, which is how it appears to me too?

[@MGrayl-ib5fo]

I didn't even need to see the lines - it SOUNDS pitch-corrected.

[@OneCatShortOfCrazy]

it's really not very nice to listen to, so I really don't understand why it's used so much..

[@MGrayl-ib5fo]

@@OneCatShortOfCrazy I can hear it a mile off & it's so fatiguing to listen to - especially when it's done badly - one dodgy transition between notes can ruin the whole thing. And the ironed-out tone is foul.

[@RevM]

@@OneCatShortOfCrazy It's not only "not very nice", it's unlistenable.

[@JayBigDadyCy]

Yeah it sounded to me the first time I heard it too. And I was in the comment section and people were literally raving about Tori's verse and how incredible it was and I was like. Yeah it's really good but it's pitch corrected and people jumped me for it. And I was baffled because it just sounds so obvious to me as a musician for 30 years. But I guess if you're of a younger generation and it's all you've ever heard is pitch correction, pitch correction, pitch correction. Then it's really hard to discern when it's not.

[@MGrayl-ib5fo]

@@JayBigDadyCy and it's no wonder that cases of vocal injury amongst young singers are happening more & more as they try to emulate their "idols".

[@jameshall9402]

You are a friend to the musical artist, not a foe.

[@JSroid]

Turning them all into production awards.

[@Cre8tvMG]

Everyone loves the songwriting, passion, invention of the 60s, 70s, and non midi 80s music. Listen to the flaws in split stems from then and you’ll be amazed at the imperfections, but the effect of the whole is perfection. Corrected pitch feels robotic and lifeless.

[@Invisible-Rhino]

"I made this acapella performance with my mouse and software - GIVE ME AN AWARD !"

[@TTykwer]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@cpmf2112]

A Crappella

[@rb4peace]

So true 😂

[@ytuser392]

😂😂😂

[@snagletoothscott3729]

"This is the worst rendition of of an S&G song I';ve ever heard. You literally could not make it any worse" Some producer at a computer "Challenge accepted!!!"

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Liberace says "Hold my Champagne! I'm feelin' GROOOOVY!!!!"

[@van_goghx]

I would love to see a website with a database of music artists and specific albums and whether or not the vocals are pitch corrected or not. Then when purchasing music the consumer can check the website to see if they’re getting the real thing. 🎤

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Should it also disclose how many takes were needed to get an entire phrase full of acceptably pitched notes?

[@windyleecarr]

Probably easier to just presume 99% of major label music from the last decade or so is more than likely pitch corrected. The stuff that isn't is sadly an anomaly these days.

[@Olkam-w5u]

Consumers buy music not for the sake of music, but for the parasocial relationship with the star. Talk to fan clubs. "Or buy tracks on Spotify to listen to while running or driving. It doesn't really matter how it's made, the main thing is that it's lively and not complicated." - these are not my words, but those of a person from American music radio.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@Olkam-w5u The self-annointed "real music lovers" are a distinct minority in the overall market for music.

[@MickSupper]

Create one and I bet it would take off.

[@doliveri]

I’ve always been able to hear pitch correction but never understood why it sounded “off “. And it’s EVERYWHERE! Thanks for the great video!

[@adrian.joker1338]

The amount of judgy people in these comments is wild🤣 imagine if everyone just listened to what they liked and just didn't listen to what they didn't👀 "ThEY rUInED a cLAsSic" I dunno if you know the original is still there to listen to, just listen to that, Jacob Collier's style of production isn't my favourite thing ever, it's quite commercial, but he's experimenting with random stuff, and it's gotta be marketable to fund itself, just accept that people like different things - the video is a great analysis, quite unbiased and still appreciates the artists talent, really great, the comments though...a bunch of salty people🤣

Simple: phrasing, the hallmark of artistic performance, occurs not only BETWEEN groups of pitches, but, in SINGING (I'm a pianist, a percussionist necessarily), phrasing occurs WITHIN a SINGLE note. Hence destroyed by pitch "correction" software.

[@tonybarkham3679]

Wow, the real voices from 19:50 sounded so good, so natural, and so full of human emotion. You're absolutely right Fil, the pitch correction totally destroys these artist's ability. Sad, especially when people are simply not allowed to hear real emotions ... Artificial is simply not 'art' and not real, but this is what almost all industries are giving us to consume. Why? To maximize, profit, ROI, and to sell to as many people as possible through standardization practices.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

And, it will maximize profit, ROI and the rest so long as those of us who are real music lovers and who care about what may be the eventual demise of real music altogether sit back and do nothing about it. This may be a quixotic fight but surely it is a fight worth having in a serious effort to save real music from oblivion, right?

[@waltblackadar4690]

Her vocal gave me the runs.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

Well played, sir, well played!

[@Bellbird-y9g]

@@BlessYourHeart254 Are you weary, feeling small? 🙃

[@lindaw2165]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Bellbird-y9g]

@@ascotalexanderbruce Not at all bruce. Merely using the song's lyrics to check on his health. You clearly didn't see what I did there. Nevermind, maybe next time. Or did the lyrics of the song go over your head?

[@SuziQ.]

@@Bellbird-y9g, 😂

[@WolfAbarth]

The voice is a fretless instrument, can you imagine Pino Paladino's bass line on Wherever I Lay my Hat without the expression of a fretless, it wouldn't have anywhere near the emotional impact.

[@JelMain]

This is why I've stopped singing. I'm one degree from Sir Geraint Evans, in passing, his lady wife Brenda gave me the keys to my adult voice, my tessitura is bass baritone, and I was picked by Ben Parry for the tenor in his London Acappella Festival workshop a decade back. Just to give some credentials. When Bach studied equal temperament 300 years ago, it was an academic study of the theoretical possibilities it offered, but as he discovered, it doesn't take the human impact into account. Each of the 12 modes carries a different motional payload with it, and that imposes microtonal differences in tuning, as any competent violin player will tell you. I'm actually from a folk background, and took the usual school recorder into very competent low whistle playing in 85. It was a new instrument then, and at the Edinburgh Harp Festival the next year, found myself playing in a Masterclass with Paddy Moloney, the Chieftains' piper, as he'd never had a chance to see it's scope. The larger finger holes offer a chance to not just half-stop semitones, but to go far further into full elision, and none of this is in equal temperament either. The net result you heard in Howard Shore's music for The Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. The Industry rarely perform, and almost never at that level. It's time to tell them what to do with themselves, these parasites, and that includes the Colliers. Acappella means from the Chapel, and it does not include instruments, amplification or any other kit. To hear it at its best, Polyphony Down The Pub is doing the 1630 slot on Trafalgar Square on Christmas Eve. Renaissance acappella, without saxophones or organs or... And if the industry doesn't like it, good.

[@Blech-h9z]

I understood the definition of Acapella, and I know that I prefer Beethoven to Bach, and I know the Del Vikings "Come Go With Me" is so much better than whatever this was. Sing anyway! What a gift. I can hear myself being off key, I can't do anything about it. You have beauty to give, goodness knows we need it.

[@JelMain]

@@Blech-h9z No, it's become a poisoned apple. I have far more useful gifts, but using them is a short cut to destruction. why should I entertain a society like that?

[@pointermom7641]

This is the first time I ever heard this artist. I do not care for her voice. I do not like all those runs and she sounds very shrill to me. Just personal choice I guess. Maybe the perfection of the original song and the exquisite harmonies of Simon & Garfunkel are just too much for me to appreciate any other iterations.

[@melaniepemberton2882]

I agree that the original is fantastic, but the group Blake did a fabulous cover (imho).

[@l_ha3er1n_]

I don't think a lot of ppl in the comments cares about this artist since her audience is mostly late millenials, young adults, Gen Z and the next generations. Most people in this comment section are born in the 60-80s and obviously Tori Kelly's the opposite of what people like here

[@lovelylife3012]

Tori Kelly is incredible live please give her a chance behind this one song.

[@aryangill908]

Listen to some of her other songs, she has some great ones that aren't all runs

[@johnlawler2455]

And the WINNER of this year's Grammys...ALL of them is......... AUTO TUNE!

[@BH-h6l]

😄

[@Heightsomethinghuman]

And the runner up….pitch correction!

[@Fastvoice]

No joke: Celemony - the company behind Melodyne pitch correction - won the technical Grammy 2012. And last year it was Antares (Auto-Tune) that won a Grammy. So everything is already settled.

[@yvonnevanwaegeningh-tiggel4577]

Let's not forget the brand new miming category! 🤣 Plenty of possible nominees to choose from... 😑

[@Heightsomethinghuman]

@@Fastvoice Know nothing about technical devices here, so are you serious?

[@hitryy]

Would love to see you doing a Tiny Desk performance analysis! Always was wandering whether they use pitch correction since it sounds waaay too smooth

[@akflute]

NMIXX Tiny Desk is one that I have really been wondering about

[@Vita_Terra]

He did one for a BTS Tiny Desk performance. It was pitch corrected.

[@jsc9000]

@@Vita_Terrahe did Taylor swifts tiny desk and it was live it was compared against a live performance that had been auto tuned for the official video not the live performance

[@atomdecay]

They absolutely pitch correct. Honestly unless you're standing next to someone without any mics or equipment, they're 100% pitch correcting. Stop thinking anyone is "all natural". It ain't gonna happen. Anyone who trusts Jacob Collier to not pitch correct is a fool.

[@jsc9000]

@ just watch the video fil did I’m just repeating what he said

[@kevlarV2rocketRSV]

Phil. "The power of Christ compels you!"🤣🤣🤣

[@thegroovyhead]

Thank you for ever-excellent work. Really, really a joy your channel, your work and thought going into to each of your “shares.” You hit the nail on the head - and central, *precious* point, and a perfect explanation of what is negative about this practice. ***You talk about personal expression in micro tones.*** YES! It is the crucial, (“yes-this-is a-human-like- -me) sentiment evoked by the dependable little irregularity that imbues each singer’s piece with what precisely what makes it real and personal! All I can say is “arrrrgh.” I have resigned myself to the reality of music industry that only follows the characteristic greed and principles-be-damned of big money. If a potential star has promise as a singer - singer or not - s/he will be made a singer. If somebody promises popularity, s/he WILL be made into a “singing” star. Today’s auto-tune bullshit, pardon me - but the adjective is appropriate - is vomit inducing. In so many ways, sheer depth of quality art and culture in everyday music is being watered down to a clear, tasteless, nothing. Additionally, as a result, listeners remain *reduced*…many out there with good ears are denied that degree of joy of music that many of us are fortunate to know, because they have not regularly been exposed to it. - a crucial part of developing musical ear/brain/ soul (as I see it), from which each person can develop his/ her ear. Doing this is tantamount to the dumbing-down of our lowered standard society, and has already led to lamentable consequences. Quality / more complex music will become less understood, less aspired to, less performed (unnecessary) and it will take place at small, personal venues. Hell, it is pretty much this way now. Perhaps simple, well done, *real* music will go the way of popular opinion toward jazz (that jazz is some obtuse, weirdo stuff for snobby posers and quasi-intellectuals - or some other such asinine mainstream, cookie cutter evaluation of something they musically can’t understand - understandably, musical unfamiliarity often breeds avoidance, and in the case of jazz, criticism. I lived for many years in Spain, and in the flamenco world (I’d imagine it a historical influence of the Moorish music scales which are comprised of more notes per octave?), there are occasional *deliberate* flats, some even do it the high E on the guitar tuning, just to deliberately tweak the ear. One grows to love it, as it is absolutely intentional, hence requires a keen easiness with pitch. I often think of the effective philosophy in personal style of jazz pianist (may he be cruising in a sparkly universe-full of pianos and jam partners!), the inimitable Mose Allison, which includes rather frequently adding to the melody note, the next half step up too. Unmistakably MOSE. Chopsticks. Haha. Cheers! Sorry so long. I am an old school writer. Yep

[@chillnophone2024]

That sounds bad, to me. I don't like that style with runs, but this makes me cringe.

[@Greenchileaddict]

I apologize profusely to everyone for ruining this song. My cat Specter was looking for a part time job to help with bills. I encouraged him to apply for this music producer opening and this ..this is the result. My god the caterwauling is painful. 🤘

[@roberthaynes8830]

Lol

[@Tinuvielthefair]

I know I've commented a lot; I just remembered something interesting. In my ear training classes, we learn both intervals of just temperament and equal temperament. There is a difference. Between the "do" or root of the key and "mi", or a major third of the pitch; equal temperament is equally spaced between the notes. I believe if I'm remembering correctly we naturally (in just temperament) go a bit "flat" and the equal temperament is sharpened to the calibration. I just check on my piano to make sure that is correct. Classical singers are taught both and if you have a good ear, you can hear the subtle differences. I believe the la is the same in this manner. I could be misremembering it, so if anyone knows whether I'm correct or not, let me know because I might have them flipped. 😂 My point is that many singers are taught equal temperament singing. That doesn't change our invalidate anything that Fil is saying here. These absolutely sound like they've been pulled to the lines. Equal temperament is nice for a lot of things. But Just Temperament is really quite beautiful and that's what our voices are designed to do. Fil, I'm also with you on the runs. I've never been a big fan of big crazy runs. They just aren't my thing. I like a bit a flourish, grace notes and some complicated runs with a purpose, but if someone over does then in a song, I'm usually left wondering if they do them because they can't hold a note. I know this is terribly judgy on my part. I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum. If you like them, awesome. I just don't like them all over the place. Less is more, in my humble opinion. It's a crying shame they pitch corrected this piece.

[@marymegrant9438]

Thank you for bringing this up. My Music Theory class was from a popular music standpoint, and only considered equal temperament. As someone with a math BA, none of it made any sense to me. (Also, I needed more experience with an instrument before taking the class in the first place. My only instrument was guitar, with the instructor being a graduate student, and I took music theory because I was being taught multiple versions of a chord without any understanding of naming conventions.)

[@Tinuvielthefair]

@marymegrant9438 I forgot to say what "la" is in terms of singing on the key, though. La is the major sixth interval. Thank you for your thoughtful reply! I always consider Music Theory as some sort of "weird math". It's actually more of a language, but it makes me giggle. I took six years of it considering I took it for two years at the junior college and four at the university I went to. I got my BA in Music with a emphasis in Voice. I also took all ear training courses, the fourth class nearly took me out (20th Century cluster tones, ugh). I can see how going into Music Theory from a popular stand point would be confusing! Holy crap, you're missing so much (in that context). Music Theory is very much a language to me, and it feels like much of that is forgotten in modern music. It's not bad, it's just is an evolution of Theory but very minimalized down to its bare bones and turned into a sort of leet speak of its kind. I'm not trying to sound like an old bag. There are emotions connected to keys that have been wholly forgotten or lost because people look at key signature and see them as a nap for where the pitch is, not the emotion that the composer is conveying. I find that to understand the messages and stories that composers such as Beethoven were composing are structured within those keys themselves, not just the melody and harmony he was creating. And honestly, these emotional messages are universal, much like our six universal emotional expressions. Anyways, it's a whole thing, and I could go on and on about it, but my point is, I can unbeaten why you got lost in it. Theory is like the sea. Great to swim in, but if you take a deep breath and dive in, you're going to see there is a unfathomable depth and a bottom as deep as the Marina Trench. (Is Marina or Mariana? I can't remember now. Not important for this metaphor!)

[@sonablom]

The natural voices are impressive, and the pitch correction is weird, but my god, that arrangement is christina Aguilera singing the national anthem bad. It is a beautiful, etheral, meloncholy song and this arrangement is souless. Imo.

[@AndrewKesler]

It's not an award for a cappella performance, it's purely an award for the quality of the arrangement.

[@Aurora-cv5to]

Thanks for this. You explained a lot for me. I'm not a musician and there's a lot I don't understand, but my ears do seem to notice, and I become uncomfortable. You showed me why.