Winter is over - Current State of TCG Market

[@coldpawnorthern4535]

Flesh and Blood is definitely one of my favs. There is a pretty underground game “Back Alley Mages” I think is really fun, and has potential for an up and coming comer. It has different mechanics that could really make every game different. Personal opinion of course

[@AlainReyes]

Sorcery feels like early MTG nostalgia bait, i might be wrong but the art feels like something that would grab a magic player attention. Not that it is a bad thing but it's not my jam.

[@MTGUnpacked]

I have no doubt most of these new TCGs will do great over the next 2-3 years, but how many will last beyond that? I can see Lorcana and One Piece going the distance, but not much else. FaB has already moved beyond the early TCG danger zone, and with their recent launch into Japan, I can see the game getting even bigger. However, it still seems to struggle in the US, despite the huge tournament events. Its biggest issue right now is probably limited appeal to collectors and casual players. I'm curious if the rumored PvE format will help the game grow here in the US? Interesting times for TCGs, in any case!

[@stormycat0905]

I'm glad Magic is doing well for you. It's very much on the decline in my area. Tournaments don't fire anymore. FNM drafts sometimes fire though.

[@KitchenTableTCG]

Commander? We struggle with 60 card formats.

[@stormycat0905]

@@KitchenTableTCG If you go to an LGS in my area on a designated commander night you'll find 2-3 pods playing. This is down from 5-6 pods from a couple years ago. 60 card formats basically don't exist anymore. Premodern is the only format that gets more than 12 people playing any given week. Standard hasn't existed since Arena became a thing. Modern went from 20-30 weekly players before LoTR to 3 after. Pioneer never took off.

[@disco_collects]

Nice to see this kind of content again instead of mtg

[@magusofthebargain]

::record scratch:: "the average consumer doesn't want to have to buy things online?" really? I did not know that. If true, this changes my whole perspective on the LGS economy.

[@carterhalo255]

It’s true if you ask me. With something like cards people would rather get them in person due to the high amount of scams online. Also a big part of moving product like that is impulse purchases which is a lot easier to achieve when the product is in front of the consumers face. It works on me I always buy a few more packs than I anticipate every time I go to his store lol

[@KitchenTableTCG]

It’s a weird dichotomy. Both are essential. But the impulse purchase is huge in this industry. When you’re at an LGS for 6 hours playing games, you spend money. But the LGS also won’t have every single you need, so the internet finds its way there too. All consumers are different as well. But I’d venture to say the average LGS-goer spends 70-80% of their TCG budget inside the walls of which they play.

[@Xoulrath_]

I ALWAYS prefer to buy in person for anything, but that is even more true for things like cards. I've gotten too many cards online that are listed as NM that have clearly been ground down with a sander before being shipped to me. I've gotten the dullest, least shiny foils imaginable. I'd much rather see the cards in person and be able to inspect them myself.

[@Dwarven_Steel_Games]

I would say this is true. I desperately want the two LGS near me to carry products I'm interested in, but they do not. So I have to buy online. Team Covenant has been amazing at making games like FaB and Sorcery accessible when a lot of stores won't carry product.

[@SSolemn]

I only put my pre orders at my LGS (when I do buy boxes or precons), and I always participate in the Pre Release events. Plus for singles I pass the list of cards I need to my LGS, and whatever the don't have, I order Online.

[@setokaibasbankaccount9109]

Louie has the same rules as Rudy. “Thou shall do your best to not utter the word Yugioh” 😂.

[@williamwild8812]

I hope he is not the same as Rudy.

[@ethercept]

Sorcery FTW!

[@mishrazz]

Yeah I really don't care if it stays small. As long as there is nice and steady organic growth. The game is 10/10

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

7:20 - I think I spit out my coffee....young players care absolutely 0 about the vintage market and history. And that's not me being condescending, it's just not what they care about at all. No 15 year old is going to spend $500 for a dual land...

[@noahhayslip9270]

I’m 23. I’ve never even seen one. I have no interest in owning one

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

@@noahhayslip9270 exactly. There’s not a format to play them. Legacy is a MTGO format, cEDH is proxy. Us boomers love them because we like to brag how we got them for $20 but never play them. They were a good “investment” 20 years ago, that’s it

[@Dwarven_Steel_Games]

He phrased it as a question, not so much a statement. Commander players definitely want to acquire and use those vintage cards, and have advocated heavily for reprints because they want to intentionally tank the value of those older cards.

[@Dwarven_Steel_Games]

@@ReyaadawnMTG if you are playing a format where you have to proxy cards, that's not the format you should be trying to play.

[@jacobnordquist3448]

As far as mtg vintage cards goes I max out around $300 a card, anything beyond that I remind myself that it's a piece of cardboard and going higher than that seems silly. I own some OG duals, wheel of fortune, and some other lower end pieces like some Forks.

[@Kamehamehobby]

There are too many games and not enough money to go around and finance all of them. The market can't support them all

[@eddiesuen3711]

My money is on Pokemon and MTG only. Lorcana, Star Wars are all license products. They can lose that license and it's all over. It has happened before, and it will happen again. I have seen more Metazoo in the wild than Sorcery. In fact, I have never seen a single Sorcery player much less than a Sorcery card in an LGS. Your store may be the only one. One piece and flesh and blood will be ok. They are in LGS, and in valuable LGS display cases. There are players.

[@Dwarven_Steel_Games]

Sorcery just released it's first set with the next coming in a few months. Metazoo has been out for a few years and also decided to go the big box store route, which is why you see it.

[@pastimegamin]

lol the reason you see more MetaZoo is because they printed 100 thousand boxes to support 2 thousand players if that. Plus MZ is no longer active they closed their doors so you can pick up boxes for like $20 lol. My LGS had Sorcery and sold out FAST. Their only issue was they can't restock it. Thats probably why you don't see it in LGSs

[@dominicteribery9464]

I’m glad you mentioned Star Wars. Something about it really connects with me. I’m not even a Star Wars person but it has me watching the movies now and getting into the story.

[@Screenwatcher33]

The problem with Sorcery is too difficult to get I understand it being a collectible but at some point you have to have readily available product at a reasonable price to build a player base

[@CrosswaIk]

It's funny because the speculators that are leeching off of these new games say the off these new games are saying the opposite. They're saying that Beta boxes are still too cheap and that they printed too many. I think the reality is they printed plenty of booster boxes because you can still get as many as you want at MSRP from Team Covenant and starter decks are available for $35 everywhere in the U.S. The problem I see is that TC are one of the only stores to identify the issue with the classic distribution model and Sorcery has 'had' to trust them with the bulk of inventory. It's bad because you're limiting it to one store but it's great because all of us who want to play the game and collect it can get boxes at MSRP months and months after release (probably even a year or more). If boxes were spread more evenly then we'd be in a spot that you're describing where every card shop would be trying to jack up the prices with no end in sight. I think it's the industry as a whole that needs to change. Right now boxes are still at MSRP from TC, decks are everywhere for really cheap which makes the game available and collectors seem to be happy with what they have. This doesn't work out for flippers but as a player, I'm happy.

[@ldubbs9336]

You can still buy Beta boxes from covenant directly lol. If people can't obtain product, its because they're brain dead.

[@SuperCrowbot]

And Rudy is getting 6,000 boxes in the next few weeks. The product is there but it's just not distributed well at all.@@CrosswaIk

[@8bitgoonies]

I can certainly vouch for MTG doing great right now, my LGS has wait lines for commander night as every seat fills up by literally 4pm and we play until 1am, also firing pioneer standard and pauper events regularly, but to agree with you - everyone shops the binders and display cases, nobody is cracking packs, they all want singles...

[@Xoulrath_]

That's because it's cheaper to have someone else take the hit on the boxes. Then you pay a small premium for exactly what you need. Believe me, there are people who WANT to buy boxes. I'm one of them. My daughter is another. Her boyfriend enjoys cracking packs as well. But when you can spend $100 on the EXACT cards you need for your decks, why would you ever spend $150 for a box that might not even get you a single card that you need, at least as far as the R/M slot goes. Hell, even Uncommons can be hard to get a playset of from a couple of boxes. You just end up with a lot of crap cards that more than likely will never become so relevant that they are even worth keeping when you buy boxes. I'm trying to declutter, not add to the mess lol.

[@Ookie1776]

What should I do if I have a great idea for a tcg based on WoW?

[@gudtimes6363]

Good on you for adapting and not complaining. thats how you run a successful business.

[@Big_Dai]

Mate, I have a LOT of Single Cards from my Commander collection, and I've thought about selling them. What is the market like at the moment? For example, how would you price a collection?

[@therealcancerofyoutube8174]

You mentioned a Lorcana reprint, is this just a guess of does distro have additional TFC Locana?

[@KitchenTableTCG]

Guess.

[@astrostl]

> The idea that the average player of MTG in my store has probably never played a 1:1 Magic format 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@mishrazz]

Glad to see you embrace the Sorcery fanboy sticker. The game is the best thing to happen to TCGs since Magic in the 90's People will discover it and start playing in due time.

[@Dimitar_Tsanev]

Edit: I apologise in advance for the long rant. I'm aware it sounds angry and judgemental but I don't really want to yuck anyone's yum. Until recently I had a kinda passive outlook on commander as a concept overall. I never got the appeal and even though I tried I never got into it so I just didn't care about it. However, as time goes on I feel a growing resentment to this format as it seems to have taken over the public discourse regarding Magic to the point where it seems like it's all Magic is. My problem with that is the fact that it's not like many people think. This is not due to the casual nature of the format making it more accessible and many people liking it as a result. Yeah, that might have been the case for some time and for many people but currently I'm witnessing the trend of a huge influx of new players who are mostly very young who are introduced to the game by other relatively new players who are not much older and that leads to many people only being taught the game via commander. Basically never knowing that there are other (and subjectively better) ways of playing that can be just as casual and wacky and multiplayer as commander. So seeing this influx of players whose idea of Magic hardly expands outside of the boundaries of commander (if at all) many content creators only (or mostly) make commander focused content which is then consumed by these same players who only know this one way of playing the game. This way the idea that there is basically nothing else to Magic other than commander is perpetuated and becomes a feedback loop which only grows with time and by making commander look bigger than it is, it actually makes it bigger with time. However, as I said this doesn't feel natural. It feels parasitic on the game. The fact that commander is the only format with cards continuously printed specifically for it, the fact that the only precon decks sold at this point are commander decks, the fact that there are commander decks for Modern Horizons III (?!), and the fact that in many cases one can find it difficult to find someone to play a casual game of Magic with unless it's commander all feel so wrong to me. I understand what people see in it but I don't understand how it came to be that people think that the things they like about commander are only available in commander. Kitchen table Magic in my opinion is infinitely better because it doesn't have the restrictions commander imposes on players. You want to play a 100 card singleton deck? No problem. You're not required and allowed to play a 100 card singleton deck only though. You can play a 60 card deck with 4 copies of everything, you can play an 87 card deck with 2 of's, 3 of's and 4 of's. It's entirely up to you. You want to play with 3 other people? No worries-you can play with 5 other people if you want and it can be free for all or teams ot one against the rest or whatever you want. Ban list? Nope, there isn't one. Play 4 sol rings if you want, let's see how you'd fair against another busted and absolutely bonkers brew that one of your friends has concocted. Commander is restrictive and boring and I'm really getting angry at the fact that it's obscuring the real freedom and fun that Magic can provide for players. It's not even that commander itself is bad-it's the constant noise being made about it forcing wizards and basically all of youtube to cater to a player base who largely is under the impression that there is commander and there is competitive Magic with nothing inbetween. Also I'm aware I absolutely overreact but I needed to vent my frustrations in a single comment that I can refer to in the future. After all everyone can play whatever they like however they like and I'm actually more sad than angry about everything I said.

[@RagdorUltron]

I have been playing magic for 20+ years. I would agree that buying singles and commander decks is the only way to spend money on magic right now. I play commander only now and only buy singles. I have started to teach my kids magic and they are way more excited to play Universes Beyond stuff then regular magic stuff. They were very excited about Marvel.

[@KitchenTableTCG]

Awesome to hear your kids are involved!

[@VibraFinance]

My fallout box shipped today that was 229 shipped. Let’s gooo!!!!! It’s guaranteed a serialized card too!

[@magusofthebargain]

How is it guaranteed a serialized card? Did the seller promise they would buy the cards back from you if you open the box on camera and don't get a serialized card??

[@tthien93]

Really enjoyed the video and your thoughts. FaB has an uphill battle for sure without an established fan base like lorcana and One Piece. The latter just needs to deal with supply issues. And the altered tcg cards are just so ugly. Why did they have to put a QR code on a card?

[@daveking1528]

Guess the card win the card!

[@markusbetts]

“is it expensive?”

[@Dwarven_Steel_Games]

Lorcana is going to be negative value for card shops. This is not a good thing.

[@Vinyl-quest]

I recently came back to MTG solely because commander, I used to play 2 and 4 player casual 60 card decks back in the late 90s when I was 10 til 12. I’m absolutely loving the fun and casual commander play that I’m doing weekly at my lgs. What an awesome time to come back to the game!

[@KitchenTableTCG]

Welcome back!

[@audrisampson]

I have to disagree with you on your take that there are too many card games. TCGs need to have something for everyone and need to have their own little niches with communities and such. I think your doing it right though promoting and pushing the games that you the shop owner believe in and your local community want to play. While I say more is good, I also agree that LGS can't do everything. I noticed that Yugioh and the Bushiroad games weren't on your list that your store carries. Any reason why?

[@TCGSociety]

Good luck with the WOTC Pokemon collection!

[@Kyle-e8r]

Love Star Wars Unlimited

[@IneptCardCollector]

Good vid! Sorcery forever!

[@BlazeBerger]

I bought the starter decks of sorcery over winter and so far I've only played it twice. The game is dope, I'm a grid believer, but i can't get anyone to play consistently.

[@kazekage_gaara_-8027]

Thunder Junction is such an awkward follow-up. Not to be negative, but to be objective. We get List cards, a Bonus Sheet, and an Extra Bonus Sheet...and that will cause ridiculous amounts of variance in Sealed/Draft as well as between boxes for those who live cracking packs. I'd still rather open Wilds of Eldraine, Brother's War, March of the Machine, etc...where there's a bonus sheet and good list value. As for Vintage Magic...probably not. If it's playable in Commander probably. It's tax season and we are seeing movement on duals, like every year around this time. But they're less likely to shell out several thousand dollars on Moxen when that literally funds a Cedh project. Aka they're more likely to care about foil Gaea's Cradle than a Time Vault.

[@VibraFinance]

Keep Crushing Louie

[@kfresh2177]

I wish you were in NOVA and not WV so I could play Sorcery at GG. I got a strong 30 mile limit, but it would be fun sometime to meet and play.,

[@cardboard_battlefield]

If you do make the trip I will say that it's worth the time/experience. Really great atmosphere and Sorcery is very fun to play in person.

[@jerbear8601]

Great analysis! One of these days I'll make the trip across state lines to patronize your store. Keep up the good work!

[@thiccboicory9964]

Well let's be truthful wizards of the cost has shot its self in the foot with fallout ny local store can even get any boxes they had to cancle most of there orders

[@PiperRECs]

Altered is gonna be dope!

[@Kamehamehobby]

Have you heard of wonders of the first?

[@KitchenTableTCG]

I have not

[@B1bombermadness]

I wish you and FAB never got a divorce 😢

[@BigBootyJudy40ozBounce]

FAB is such an amazing game

[@chrisg380]

Blame George. This Star Wars TCG and Lorcana are as dead as Metazoo. What a waste of time and money.

[@CrosswaIk]

​@@chrisg380Blame LSS, they started banning everyone for speculating about the game. Their podcast probably did more for FAB than any single store in the U.S. and Louie and George were crushed when LSS treated them like strangers.

[@hover2go]

​@@CrosswaIkmeanwhile there's no North American rep to handle things like this and there's obvious favoritism to New Zealand content creators. LSS cares about the game but not the customers imo

[@birdsflapatnighttogether2304]

​@CrosswaIk here are the facts. Only store impacted by spreading false information was George's. No other store was banned for the same behavior. No business wants to deal with another business that actively spreads misinformation. So good on LSS for cuting his store out. Additionally, the podcast that actually did something for the game was team covenant and arsenal pass. There was a very small viewership that mtzby had at that time and their impact was and continues to be insignificant when you look at the big picture. There are tons of others that have made more substantial contributions to the FAB community and continue to do so.

[@RafaAkd]

Tbf, neither of the other 2 FFG Star Wars card games were TCGs. I'm all in with SWU

[@whatscrackincollectibles]

I'm so in on Star Wars Unlimited!! It's so fun to play!!

[@isaiahbenitez8978]

Star Wars Unlimited is the underrated gem!!

[@d.b.s.6381]

I'm not spending a dime until Pokémon Pee & Poop comes out.

[@MikeJones-nf4ke]

Don't buy reserved list...I want them all lol 😜

[@themagictraindriver]

More NomNom please

[@CrosswaIk]

I'm betting that no one will care (or at least be alive to care) about vintage Magic in 40 years. Wotc doesn't want older guys in their hobby anymore and I stopped supporting them 3 or so years ago because of it. Magic isn't for us and I'm happy to spend that excess cash on games who want everyone's time and money. I would say Sorcery is easy to teach and to learn but harder to understand. You really have to get the concept of the game into someone's head before teaching them and I've found that if they're not open to it then learning will be rough. It's not a competitive game (you can play it competitively) and there's a lot of imagination involved. I'm extremely competitive, probably not the best loser and yet I don't care one bit when I lose a Sorcery game. When I teach someone, the first thing I try to explain is the golden rule.

[@KitchenTableTCG]

I think the kitchen table is a greater spot to learn sorcery than my loud LGS. When there’s a billion things going on In the room it’s easy to get distracted.

[@johndonovan2911]

Bandai and not printing enough..

[@AVAUTV]

"Spring State in my store" would have been a fitting title. 👍

[@TheMrSlyxx]

This whole thing came across as totally snotty.

[@benpuffer7891]

How so?

[@hover2go]

I think he means that Louie just needs to blow his nose

[@KitchenTableTCG]

Achooo

[@TheMrSlyxx]

Too many games out there? You run an LGS. Also, the part about "people are reaching out to me with their ideas but I'm like talk to the hand. " Literally how this first part read to me. This is why I mostly dislike LGS's in general. There is usually some guy at the front with an imperialistic view of what should be cool and what should just die within (insert timeframe)... exact amount of months. The people who ran the last LGS we hung out at really only wanted to put focus on MTG, even though several people played Metazoo there regularly. And they more or less constantly reminded us that Metazoo would eventually die, cuz how could it not? And they were right, so whoopy for them. I mean not everyone has to love every game out there, but to say too many are out there is like a liquor store owner saying "They need to stop making so many delicious brands". Also... someone did ask you to maybe discuss a game they were working on cuz they really liked your podcast and this channel and I think you responded "If it was something kickstarter you wouldn't go anywhere near it." So anyway, that's the explanation of the comment. also, I tuned out after that part, so this wasn't about your whole segment, just the first part. 😁