Witchcraft | Falling Down The Rabbit Hole | avoiding culty stuff

[@Anamehere6]

This should be a mandatory channel for witch tiktok. They offer some great things but are very vulnerable to manipulation and peer pressure. Great video! Insightful and logical but also emphatic, something people forget when talking about the vulnerability of others caught up in culty like groups.

[@QueenFiend]

YEP. lol straight up saying the earth is going to separate into two and we're all going to become aliens and ascend to a 5 dimensional universe. xD .... sound about right? Shiz gets wild over there sometimes lol

[@NoreaLamia]

The occult community in general has pockets that are very culty... for researching some practices it's almost inescapable. I say that having been caught up in that myself (not full on cult, but a group with a concerning amount of homogeneity) Such a shame, really.

[@wolfil8019]

As I watch, I am taking a break to say that you are making me feel old ... in a good way. I am 65 years old. I began to explore atheistic paganism and naturalistic magickal practice in my mid-20s, so about 40 years ago. At that time, to do research on such matters meant ... reading books. It was slower, yes. But also far less prone to the rabbit-hole effect, and, for me, I find it easier to apply critical thinking to a book one is reading, because books do not have all these links, pop-ups, algorhythms, etc. trying to grab your attention ... Books have information without the "information overload" that can so easily happen on the internet. At the same time, there are a few people, like you, that know how to create well-spoken, well-reasoned videos that I both enjoy and learn from. So I thank you for keeping an old godless pagan learning. So I wrote the above about 8 minutes into the video. I have now watched to the end ... An excellent video. The new thing I picked up from it was BITE. This is the first time I heard of it. Thank you.

[@samf8405]

I wish I could post this to every witchcraft group in existence. I also live in the South, so a lot of people here could benefit from hearing about the BITE model... if they were open to listening, which most of them are not lol. In my own personal experience, I've never fallen too deep down the rabbit hole, but I haven't always been the best at vetting my sources. So there are a few times I've fallen prey to things that sounded legit, or just felt right to me, without looking into them. A good example for me is crystals. When I was told crystals had magical energy, I just accepted that. Not quite as fact, since I'm at least self-aware enough to know that I didn't do my research and therefore don't actually know if crystals are magical, but I accepted it enough to want every crystal I saw on sale. I was picky, too. If the "crystal" you were selling on Etsy was really made of resin, rest assured that I'd find out. It's got gold flakes in it? I'd think, "Cool, but it doesn't do the same thing as a ~real~ crystal." Now that I can be fairly certain that crystals are just pretty rocks and mining them is actually awful for the planet, I've got a few more options. I only buy real crystals secondhand now, but I can now buy resin crystals, if I so choose. I could also pick up any shiny pebble I find and use it like a crystal. They all still feel just as magical as the other pretty rocks I could've bought, and they appease my simple little crow brain just the same, except now I'm not contributing to the mining industry, I can support small businesses, and I can appreciate shiny pebbles way more than I used to. All in all, I feel pretty good about that.

[@ajrooke]

Found you on Reddit and it’s nice to see witchcraft from an atheist and non-supernatural perspective! The stuff you cover here is also so important to understand to avoid being taken advantage of. Subbed for more content ^_^

[@empadalovers]

idk about the US but here in my country christian churches are basically huge rabbit holes to the masses

[@SednaWoo]

We do have Christian churches in the states that use these techniques, to be sure. I wouldn't say the majority but they are a few out there doing this kind of thing.

[@loriallen67]

Tre whole American Christian political right can be described by the BITE formula.

[@Alice-mv9pj]

I found that in Christianity, pagan and new age.

[@malenyusay3892]

I used to be part of a Christian community that did the techniques mentioned in your video. This is one of the reasons why I decided to become a solitary secular witch. Unfortunately, one of my loved ones is still part of that Christian community. 😞

[@jennymartin2001]

100% me too.

[@babymama12610]

This reminds me of a mid level market/ pyramid group I was sucked into when I was 18 or 19. I got really weirded out when they started pushing me to listen to motivational audio everyday. I was chided like a disobedient child if I didn’t meet my mentors goals.

[@youparejo]

How did you get out of it?

[@meggylee8078]

You are just such a comforting presence ❤️

[@gio-ve7vn]

this video and your previous video on "keeping your witchcraft skeptical" have been so helpful to me, a skeptical witchling who can be a bit fanciful at times. Apparently I have good reason for not trusting my lizard brain. Maybe you can do a video on finding community, especially other skeptical and atheistic practitioners since the pool still seems quite small (but growing!) Great video! I'm going to go watch/listen in the background some of your other videos again.

[@SednaWoo]

That is an excellent topic for a video

[@kieleyevatt2232]

I'm here from Bree Nicgarran's podcast and I'm so so glad to have found a science minded witch. I grew up atheist and skeptical, and am in school in a scientific field. It's been hard to reconcile my craft with a lot of the supernaturally based witches out there. I'm so glad to be here and will be sticking around for sure 🖤

[@Splashfaceoffical]

I am really enjoying your channel and your advice. I have been so stuck in my practice lately because I don't believe in deities in the sense of being real beings but to be used as symbols. A lot of people in the witchcraft community have religions so they talk down to people who don't believe in religion or deities.

[@zoefay2358]

Hey lady, fellow atheist witch here. Have you thought about starting a patreon? You've helped me a ton and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to support the channel ❤️ thank you so much for sharing your perspective

[@SednaWoo]

You are too kind! I won't start a patreon because my upload schedule is... well there is no schedule. 😅

[@zoefay2358]

@@SednaWoo That's fair :) I'll definitely keep an eye on your etsy shop, and please let us know if there's any other way we can support you! Really can't thank you enough

[@purcascade]

Atheist Witch Librarian high five! 👩‍🏫 ETA: Midsommar is such a great example of BITE if anyone needs a visual aid.

[@immortalhk123]

I genuinely love your videos soooo much. You are one of the few witches on KZbin with a realistic and healthy mindset. It’s very refreshing and it makes me feel understood! I was hooked on your videos within the first couple of minutes of watching them. Never stop creating because each video holds so much knowledge and value! There is so much toxicity in the witchcraft community and I’m very grateful that you are here to clean it up. You’re one of the best. Also your style is impeccable but you already know that! 👏🏼👌🏻

[@laistomazz]

I really like your content, as an atheist looking into incorporating rituals into my life, and I hope you keep posting them :) One comment you've made in another video helped me a lot, because besides how overwhelming the initial research can be, I also find the "things you need" part of it very overwhelming as well, from the topic of white sage being cultural appropriation, to me asking myself if the Abalone shells are ethicaly harvested, etc. I'm glad I had found you in my path, so I can start without worrying so much about material things.

[@chloeminagawa910]

I loved this! Thanks for covering it. I have such a fascination with cults because I think if I didn’t put in effort to think critically and skeptically I would totally accidentally join a cult 😂. The BITE model is key knowledge

[@jadesadventure4150]

I was in a Christian cult as a teenager, I didn't see it because I was welcomed with "love-bombing" but when I didn't conform to their ideals of how I should dress, the type of job I should have, participating in/ contributing to the church as much as they wanted me to, I noticed that they were slowly pushing me out. It was such a toxic place and I am still working on learning to love myself and undo the damage caused by that place even over a decade after I left.

[@KokujoMata]

Thanks for making these videos. As an atheist, watching you encouraged me to jump into witch research.

[@Olga-Mendes]

OMG! You're the person I was looking for, hahah. I relate with a lot of the beliefs in witchcraft/paganism and its relation with nature but I don't believe in gods and supernatural stuff like a lot of witches and pagans. I tend to rely on science and scientific findings because I think our visions and principles are biased enough and this may be dangerous at some point. Sometimes I feel lonely at my beliefs because every group I join at facebook, whatsapp, etc is full of charlatans or people who thinks witchcraft is like doing tricks to find a boyfriend or to earn money. I hate to see how there's a lot of people selling witchcraft courses and other products and teaching that magic is making tea, buying crystals and lighting incenses without encouraging the development of an individual spirituality that prioritizes autonomy and critical/skeptical thinking.

[@SednaWoo]

You are in the right place. I 100% agree with everything you just said.

[@ALazyBat]

I really appreciate this video, I wish I had information like this when I was younger. ❤️

[@SednaWoo]

You and me both.

[@KMouseff]

Excellent summary of the BITE model method of identifying cults. I've watched many, many videos on this topic and yours is one of the most thorough and easy to understand.

[@lilwolf1574]

I used to be southern Baptist … and yeah, a rabbit hole we all know about. I’m a secular witch and avoid covens all together. Too much risk when it comes to cult-like behavior.

[@jasminepatalon1202]

I joined what I now realize was a cult when I was a teenager. I was drawn to it because I was in an abusive controlling relationship looking to belong anywhere else in the world to get away from him. A childhood friend convinced me to attend youth group at a 'non-denominational church'. Immediately I experienced love bombing and all of the other elements of the BITE model showed themselves over the following year, which my family now jokingly calls 'that one time you(I) was in a Jesus crispy cult'. I at one point found myself at a convention for teaching evangelism to youth/teens, where I remember role playing, trying to get people of specifically different faiths to consider christianity or convert them. My family life was poor and tumultuous in part due to my mother's alcoholism, so that support I felt from the group was that much more essential to my sense of belonging. I've always been an outside of the box thinker, and was shut down harshly several times for questioning things like, 'What about children soldiers who have never heard of Jesus, who are forced to kill others? Are they cast into hell for eternity for that?' When I started learning to drive, my older brother's friend who offered to help teach me, started dating and I was excluded or shunned from the group because I moved in with him to get away from my toxic home environment. This experience was and is still the example I use whenever I now adopt any beliefs. Always question, always form your own thoughts, ALWAYS do your research and never sacrifice using your own mind to navigate life's hardships, to feel included or loved by others!

[@jadesadventure4150]

❤

[@linwong1494]

When you talk about the techniques in BITE model, it reminded me too much of Christianity, or at least my experiences with Christianity, which often promoted ignoring your doubts and just pushing forward in faith. I mean, how can you expect me to have 100% devoted faith in something/someone I've never felt any connection to that I cannot experience with my senses? And while I teeter between placebo-effect atheist witchcraft and supernatural witchcraft, at least in terms of spirits and energy, I am able to "feel" something, even if it is just an imagined sensation. You can't expect me to fully believe and love and devote my life to a deity that has never given me reason to believe they exist, and then shun me for not wanting to follow a laundry list of problematic rules that don't align with my personal morals, motivating followers through fear of eternal suffering, which in itself is a highly problematic idea given the complex nature of morality. It's this critical thought that brought me out of Christianity but also stops me from fully believing in the supernatural aspect of witchcraft. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but until I experience the supernatural myself, I really can't say. The great part that distinguishes witchcraft though is that nobody is gonna shun me for not fully believing in the supernatural.

[@MachuBaxter]

Happy to support content creators like you. Watching your videos in full! 😁

[@mishapurser4439]

Sometimes a scientist in a particular field may try to be an authority on a subfield and when doing so they can display some obvious ignorance to other experts thst laypeople cannot see. This often happens when economists talk about Marx without having understood what Marx actually said. Make sure the scientist is talking about something they actually know about within their field. Scientists often become very specialised so looking at their publication abstracts can be a way to do this.

[@curiousdoodler5509]

Welp, I've been doing my part to help your watch time stats. I've been binging your backlog and my only complaint is that I want more! Love your work! Your approach to witch craft really resonates with me and I've gotten a lot of great new ideas from your content!

[@celestewelch]

I just discovered your channel and I am binging the entire thing, so I'm more than happy to contribute to bumping up the watch time. :) You for sure deserve it!

[@sabrinafuzz87]

This is suuuch important information for all witches and pagans. I've only been in my local pagan community for a couple of years and I've already run into this quite a bit (anti vaxxers, conspiracy theories, etc). Thank you for making this video!

[@lunastarfell4777]

Hey! I just recently discovered your channel and I've been slowly going through your videos. I just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE your content. I've kind of always been an atheist/agnostic witchy person, but never felt I fit in with any community because I didn't really believe in deities, healing crystals, ghosts, etc. Finding your videos has given me such a sense of validation that no, I'm not alone in this way of thinking. I always watch your videos from beginning to end, and I was instantly hooked from your very first video because of your warm, comforting, knowledgeable presence. I still have a few more videos to watch before I totally catch up, but I'm already excited to see what new videos you come out with. I created this account just to comment here, so if you ever feel down about your content I hope this brings you at least the littlest bit of comfort! Keep being wonderful!

[@evabriseis5944]

I'm so happy I found you on the Wonder podcast! Really loving your content!

[@loriallen67]

You just described the American political right. Completely on point. Scarily so....

[@SednaWoo]

When you can't attract supporters with good ideas then you resort to in group, out group behavior control. I hope they can get it together because relying of behavior control is dangerous and not sustainable.

[@loriallen67]

@@SednaWoo that’s a really good observation about not having good ideas. Historically we are seeing the culmination of a political battle that started with FDR and the New Deal but which really gained momentum with the civil rights movement. The political right does not see large swaths of the populace as having valid rights to voting and other areas of citizenship. And they have now convinced a large section of the populace of this. They can’t sell their ideas of exclusion to the masses (who would be largely excluded) without playing the race card which is the epitome of in group/out group dynamics.

[@SednaWoo]

Yes, I agree 100% if we can expose the big lie that is white supremacy, we can start holding the ruling class accountable for their exploitation of workers and the environment. It blows my mind that people believe that concept is radical.

[@loriallen67]

@@SednaWoo not only white supremacy but the belief in the meritocracy.

[@irinanikolaeva3594]

I am afraid the political (extra) left is exactly the same

[@cmleibenguth]

You may like the book by Deikman "The Wrong Way Home". Lot of different ways to fall down a rabbit hole into a cult. Crazy how it plays on human psychology so easily.

[@SednaWoo]

I will check that out! It's true, our best human strength (forming communities) can be turned against us.

[@lukemrwylie]

My 2 current interests collide! Atheist witchcraft and culty/anti-MLM 😱😱

[@pinkcupcake4717]

As someone who's been there and back again in the Jesus Club, I've found that the easiest way to tell apart harmful groups from good (in this context) is how the ritual of Confession is taught. If you aren't familiar, Confession is a practice in Christianity where you reflect on how you have sinned/fallen short in your behaviors and request being forgiven spiritually. In the toxic churches of my youth, it was presented as begging for forgiveness, afraid of divine punishment, and that you should be grateful for being tolerated. You're too stupid to know right from wrong, you need the church to protect you from your own humanity. You give up your own faculties as a sign of faith. Nowadays, in a far less toxic group, the concept of confession is more for your own inner growth. You're doing your best and trying to do better, being human means messing up sometimes. It's all good. The source of forgiveness isn't doubted, that's the whole point. People generally know what good and bad is, so your inner compass can generally keep you away from harm, and you can reach out for advice if things are complicated. Working to improve is a sign of faith. If you're in the Jesus Club and poking your head in on witchcraft out of curiosity or desire to leave a cruel framework, the witches don't bite, I promise!

[@socialmoth4974]

Years before I became an atheist, I belonged to a Christian cult for about a year. It was called the International Churches of Christ. They did most of the things you listed - love bombing, taking up all of your free time, shunning ex-members, too-high standards, expecting you to only hang out with other group members, only accepting their particular beliefs, etc. I could only take it for a year and then I left. It's too bad because there were a lot of wonderful, well-meaning people in the group and ot was the most diverse and integrated church I had ever seen. I don't know if they're still around, but it would be cool to catch up with other ex-members.

[@the_ace_case_796]

I have been interested in starting a paganistic practice for awhile, as a very good friend of mine is a witch. However, I kept finding the magick and deities aspect of it a bit off putting. The sad thing is that I almost fell down the rabbit hole of pseudoscience as I really wanted to beleive in the supernatural aspect of it because I found it interesting and I wanted to fit in with my friends (no fault of their own, they value the diversity of my opinion and I theirs) . Recently I have found the path of Naturalistic/Athiest Druidry and its wonderful to see such a well-spoken person discuss my beleifs in such a coherant fashion. Keep up the good work!

[@NoreaLamia]

I'm still working on de-programming some beliefs that I developed when involved with a community that was highly extremist politically. I'm glad that I became really interested in stuff like chaos magic early on because actually having multiple practices to draw upon forced me to look at my psyche at different points and I never really fell down the rabbit hole as deep as I was tempted to go. Groups like that don't advertise what they're really about and I think there are quite a few people who might not even know they're involved in the groups until something happens. My recommendations to prevent this is to keep looking for new sources of information and if something feels off you don't need to serve it. You can walk away slowly, use something in your life as an excuse, bite the bullet to become the scapegoat or even just stop going to those spaces abruptly, but if you find yourself in a group like that know that it's not your fault and it's better to just go your own way.

[@Summyer]

Goddang. You made me realize that two of my family members are in a cult... 😢

[@Dayglodaydreams]

God, this sounds like a normal conservative church.

[@JosheeWho]

Hey, I love your content! I saw your video about being an atheist witch and it intrigued me to your channel! So I write music. Usually comedy stuff, but I do take it serious. I was wondering if you would like an into song, since you brought up wanting an intro. I'm not much into animation. Music I got though. Stay awesome!

[@SednaWoo]

Ooo, i might have to hit you up when I make an intro. ♥ currently a custom song is not in the budget but someday it be would be cool!

[@JosheeWho]

@@SednaWoo no budget required. I was going to do it for freee

[@SednaWoo]

You should email me at sednawoo@gmail

[@ELFTHESAILORBOY]

yes. thank you.

[@Safire106]

This was such a good video! I really learned a lot of fantastic tips as I am still very much in the research stage! Thank you!

[@lucideandre]

I watched a couple videos of yours now (which I always do before choosing whether or not to subscribe), and I’m loving your content! So new subscriber here! And maybe a new witch as well...

[@SednaWoo]

Welcome! I'm happy you're here!

[@lucideandre]

@@SednaWoo so am I! I had heard of atheist witchcraft, and wanted to know more. So I’m glad to have found your channel!

[@nyxdiosavibes]

Thank you 😊

[@denicev5740]

I sincerely appreciate your content and insight. I really wish I had seen this video earlier in my path. Thank you!!

[@beccamatilda8621]

D. Gary Young also could've stylized his name this way to gain more credibility in the Mormon community, that's a very common way to write names for deacons and other high officials in the religion. Very useful for him to also have D as his first letter to look more like Dr also lol. Either way, human garbage. 🙃

[@SednaWoo]

I didn't know that but it makes a lot of sense. Utah is the multilevel marketing scam capitol of the world for some reason.

[@1015SaturdayNight]

Thank you for this valuable content

[@Ann__333]

I've been obsessed with your channel for the last few days. Do you have any book recommendations for beginner atheist witches?

[@SednaWoo]

I wish I had a reading list but so many witchy books turn out to be about Wicca half way through or incorporate closed practices or just contain to much gobbeldygook. Right now I'm reading For Small Creatures Such as We by Sasha Sagan and I'm really liking it.

[@sophiefischer8997]

Great video! Thank you. Definitely a problem worth talking about.

[@cyberbrujx]

leaving a comment to help the algorithm lead people to you 💕

[@SednaWoo]

You are appreciated

[@DE-iv8if]

Interesssting! :D

[@destroyraiden]

what if you team up with mind witch mama? That might be really cool!

[@synical13]

I'll queue up all your videos every night and let them play while I sleep. Do rewatch views count?

[@SednaWoo]

Only for videos published in the last 12 months. You are too kind. Thank you!

[@synical13]

@@SednaWoo No problem, it's the least I can do.

[@alexisvl3253]

i'm really guilty of the watch for two seconds and leave thing it's not your face lol i'm sorry i just have really bad adhd and the topic sounded interesting but i realized i don't have a tenth the spoons needed to focus on it i'm working on it :(

[@SednaWoo]

I totally understand! My watch times are much better now so whatever it was had resolved. You watch them however you like! I'm just glad you're here ✨🧹😄

[@ElevenBird]

I am SO over American Heathens However the origins of Heathenism and Wicca is crazy problematic But those white supremacists covered in runes are just 🤢🤢🤢 People have been calling them out and I'm glad for your blurb

[@sopita2236]

Hello💙

[@SednaWoo]

Hello ♥

[@Dayglodaydreams]

Creationism is really something I am apathetic about. Your wrong belief is not harming me. It is still wrong...

[@SednaWoo]

I get what you mean but i have to disagree. Young earth creationism is antiscience and if 2020 has taught us anything, it's that antiscience propaganda can be deadly.

[@Dayglodaydreams]

I mean, anti vax and naturopathic medicine is totally different to me. If I were born to a family that chose not to vax or chose to reject modern medicine, it could hurt those around me. Especially anti vax. Also a person who chooses not to teach their child about the wonders of biology and the evolutionary big story is hurting their kid in some way by depriving them. At some point I personally need to let people live and make their own choices about their beliefs as adult beings. I personally get more and more crazy if I don't leave people alone about certain things. You might be different though. That's okay.

[@Dayglodaydreams]

What the hell is a star-seed?!

[@SednaWoo]

Oh boy, google it. You're in for a wild ride.

[@abbeypeters2765]

Notice this is basically the cult of Christianity lol

[@QueenFiend]

eww ken ham -he's the worst

[@SednaWoo]

it's true. he's the most gross

[@MrsShimmyOnDown]

So, do you hold a Doctor title in this topic; have you studied this topic at university; worked in jobs in this field; published studies, in reputable journals that were peer reviewed, in this area of expertise? Applying what you advise in this video to yourself: what justifies you speaking on psychosociological dynamics of garnering knowledge? Also striking, is your oblivion to the corruption in science.

[@bluemoon7443]

Found the cult leader!

[@SednaWoo]

Yes, absolutely I have no credibility to develop a model to identify cult behaviors but I did not create the BITE model. It was created by Steven Hassan who one of the highest authorities of cult behavior. Not only is he published and educated, he was inspired to begin his work when he was rescued from a cult called The Moonies in 1979 through a kidnapping method. It may have saved his life but he wanted to develop a better method of saving folks from cults and that's his life's work. So to answer your question, any person can site reliable sources and I vet my sources carefully before presenting the information on my channel. Basically, it's the same as a research paper in high school. No information is created, only compiled. I am always upfront and honest if something is from my personal experience and the view can take those bits of info with a grain of salt.

[@SednaWoo]

The second part isn't a question but I'll answer it anyway. Absolutely the academic world is not perfect because it's made up of humans and we will always be corrupt or make mistakes. That's why it's important for information to be peer reviewed and replicable. That's kind of the whole point of the scientific method.