With Any Decision Comes a Compromise | Why I Chose Rim Brakes over Disc

[@toddmcdonough]

Art and Engineering came together and birthed what we call the bicycle. In motion, it exercises the body, clears the mind and feeds the spirit. It is truly a wonderful thing.

[@princeedmunddukeofedinburg]

AMEN ➕

[@rollinrat4850]

Well said. These days, my bikes are my shrinks on wheels. Too bad I don't ride half as much as I'd like. My sanity suffers for that. Living, eating and sleeping with your bike is a kick in the pants!!

[@psy2mentor]

Gorgeous old school styling on that bike. Hunter green and brown leather is pure class! Nice job!

[@PRH123]

Disc brakes aren’t a panacea, they come into their own if you ride in the rain, although in rain the pads wear quickly and the braking suffers. If you ride only in the dry, then there is no need for discs in my opinion. The Avid Shorties on my Kona Jake are just as powerful as discs. I have a bike with cantis, a bike with discs, and a bike with drums, and it’s the discs that are always demanding attention and service and have the weirdest problems that have to be resolved.

[@chadkline4268]

Disc brakes also fail in freezing temperatures because the little sheet metal V spring becomes too weak to expand the calipers.

[@darrenlawlor8957]

​@@chadkline4268That spring is to track your pads back as the caliper pistons retract. Your pistons retract because the extra brake fluid leaves the slave cylinders (brake caliper) and returns to the master cylinder (the reservoir at your brake lever). The spring also stops the pads from falling out on certain models of brake calipers. The spring most definitely does not push the pistons back in though.

[@chadkline4268]

@@darrenlawlor8957 I don't have hydraulic brakes. The lever contracts the pads, and the sheet metal V spring expands them back into place. That is how it is on my Giant. But they fail when the temperature is 0F or so. There is too much friction, and the spring is too weak. IMHO disc brakes on bicycles are stupid. They only work in mild climates. They are too weak and delicate to work in all climates because they cannot be made to be heavy duty like motorcycles. The upsides are far smaller than the downsides.

[@darrenlawlor8957]

@@chadkline4268 My bad. You mean the spring you'd get in the likes of avid bb5; they're a very poor design indeed. I remember having awful issues with them when cycling in snow. I've an old mountain bike (late 90s), and the pads are magnetically connected to the pistons, so travel back with the piston, slightly better solution.

[@chadkline4268]

@@darrenlawlor8957 I see. I don't know the mfr. But mine are cable driven single side calipers. One pad squeezes the disc into a stationary pad. Which, to the best of my knowledge, is the most common type. I am not against choice. Mostly, I am against not being able to select components at time of purchase. It is a big waste to throw all your components in the trash because the frame is the only part that suits you. Then you need to spend 1000 or more to remake the bike as you desired.

[@2old4u]

Excellent video. Rim brakes have my vote for road and gravel. Spare parts are in my bag. Simple, small and light.

[@jojoanggono3229]

I love rimbrakes for it's simplicity and ease of maintenance. Last week, I decided to get a steel frame gravel bike with rimbrakes. It is a New Old Stock, new production of the same model now uses disc brakes. The disc brake model is 600 gram heavier than rimbrakes, which is quite significant. By the way, your saddle bag is lovely, the one with "two hearts".

[@Henrywildeberry]

It sounds like you found a nice bike! The disc brake model will be heavier especially the fork. 600g for the frame and then add the beefier hubs, steel rotors, larger brake levers (hydraulic), calipers (w/steel backed pads), mounting hardware, and the hydraulic connections all add weight too. Rim brakes integrate the braking system into the bike design as a whole. Nothing more, nothing less. That's different than a disc brake system where all the parts are components bolted on as a separate system. The industry is fast moving away from rim brakes which is pretty sad in my opinion. Who knows, may be someone will unearth them in a few decades and get to take credit for developing a much simpler braking design? LOL! Best of luck with your new bike, and enjoy the miles of maintenance free riding.

[@miguelbooth5826]

Your bike is simple, classic elegance. I totally want that saddle. By treating yourself to a perfect bike you have treated us all. Keep up the good work!

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thank you!

[@shannontrainer5857]

The elegance of losing control your bike because either the inner tube pops from overheating or the rim splits due to excessive rim wear. Retrogrouches are the Republicans of the cycling community.

[@rollinrat4850]

Shannon Trainer Ive had 1 rim fail in 50 years of hard riding due to sidewall wear. Ive never had a tube blow up from heat. Ive ridden loaded touring bikes. If you do that youre braking incorrectly or hauling too much weight.

[@kylefitzgerald4616]

aesthetics is always my number 1

[@philipsmith7662]

Rim brakes are really disc brakes in their method of operation. The disc in this case has dual functions in that it's the wheel as well.There is a case for moving the braking surface out of the rain and mud eg mountain biking etc. but with the trade offs you point out in your very informative video. With a bike as classic looking as yours there's no question that rimbrakes look better.

[@archetypex65]

No they're really not fill the fact that you actually believe that shows how silly you're thinking really is there not a giant disc not even close. A rim brake cannot match a disc brake in any way as far as performance, reliability and power. It's unfortunate that you buy into the false narratives of cycling. You're really no different than the bunch of dumbasses who were crying when motorcycles with drum breaks switch to discs... As Long As You Love Bites are happy oh please save your bullshit for the Muppets

[@rollinrat4850]

Flying Lap Productions Yet pro roadies still win using calipers. Probably because they dont use their brakes much! The real issue with ANY brakes is knowing how to set up and use them to their full capability. I wrench on bikes every day. I replace cooked, worn out rear pads and rotors every day. Front brakes do most of the stopping yet nearly 1/2 of riders are afraid to use them! There is such a thing as too much brake power and those who dont know how to use it. Look at the corners on any popular mtb trail! I use both caliper and discs. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. Both have served me well for many years. For most road riders, quality modern caliper brakes are totally suitable, simple, tried, tested and proven over many years. Disc brakes are better for wet weather and heavy loads. Most riders are fair weather riders, many roadies are obsessed with weight! The road disc brake market is a means to market and sell new bikes.

[@johnnste1]

I’ve been riding with hydraulic disk brakes for 11 years and have never been let down by them once. I had brake cables snapping on my rim brakes on previous bikes many times though. I also think aesthetically, disk brakes look much better too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

[@BenGeldreich]

Nice explanation Henry! Oh and by far the best part if the video is the end when Ms. Cools starts laughing and adds to your message. As a fellow KZbin creator I know the feeling of rambling on and on and have had a few occasion asking for guidance on what to say. Made me laugh with you as I've been there! LOL!

[@martinpaul6146]

Wonderful ending, like a good ramble.. Just picked up a secondhand steel framed bike this summer which I love but.. it comes with hydraulic Disc brakes and I love them. In the uk it’s been very wet and outside of city muddy but they still work immediately. But the simplicity of rim is beautiful and you evolve into them. I’ll be back. As someone once said!

[@Henrywildeberry]

Sounds like you scored a really nice frame. Thanks for the comment, it’s good to hear a perspective from someone living in a totally different climate than mine.

[@christophh.1246]

You are completly right. And I like the style of that beaut.

[@nielskjr5432]

I just love your bike. Beautiful dark green steel frame. Leather saddle and handlebar tape. Center pull brakes. Everything!

[@brianmaldonado3723]

That was awesome. I am trying to finish a 73 Italvega Super Speciale with Universal 61's and 38mm tires. I like to skid my rim brakes. Anytime, anywhere. Thank you both

[@benmaier670]

Excellent video. Although I find the question of “why rim brakes?” equivalent to “why is your bike green?”, I liked your deeper explanation of your choice. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the videos of this bike and build; really a beautiful ride.

[@amitkumar-wj8gn]

lol, I was rewatching the custom build video and was wondering the same!!! and again, what a beautiful bike Mr Wildberry! If I could get a high-resolution picture it would be my wallpaper for years to come!

[@unbalancedcrank]

I definitely agree with your findings on brakes. I still favour canti or even centre pulls, but discs do have their areas where they are best. By the way, you don’tknow rambling until you’ve watched my videos!

[@havefunandbikestuff]

Amazing video. I dig the king of rambling

[@event4216]

Nice explanation. When years ago I kind of regretted not getting disc version of bike, I slowly learned all black isn't really black. One in doubt should read on frame/fork/wheel building to come to very same conclusions about weight. Sheldon Brown and Rodriguez bikes explain this well on their resources. Frankly, for me and commuting or touring bike weight isn't really an issue but they explain inevitable differences. And then there is misconception disc brakes are bombproof. Mostly, they are - except when they aren't (just like rim or any other brakes). Rubbing, pad contamination, bent rotors. Also one has to learn basic maintenance of bike and get to habit of cleaning rims and pads, instead of grinding them down with hard and dirty pads. Since I started to clean rims and using Kool Stop pads (like on your bike) I realized they brake when I need and are gentle to rims. Another lesson were to use brakes when I have to instead of when I can - main goal of cycling is to move forward instead of stopping as much as possible, so planning 30sec ahead is good way to conserve energy and keep going, instead of accelerating too fast and have to stop at each crossing. That also helps to not wear rims and pads prematurely. Going down the muddy mountain and riding on paved roads are very different conditions. One more thing I've noticed - wider tires like on your bike (I've 2" Apples) elevate braking surface over wet road and their wider body kind of protect rim from splashes. So while 25mm tire would catch more road grit on rim, rim in wider (and higher) tire is more suited to casual use of rim brake. Finally, there's no one bike for all occasions. All-weather commutes with too much possible braking would be better, maybe, on a bike with drum brakes - no even rotor can be bent in bike lot and pads can't be contaminated. Longer commutes on suburb roads would be better on a lighter and faster bike so rim brakes are perfectly OK here. Going through hilly town, especially with bad roads could call for disc brakes on beefy frame. It's easy to buy bike because it's discounted or because friends has similar - but it takes time to realize what the person needs and prefers himself.

[@shannontrainer5857]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX29knyKrpqqbqs

[@skmerti]

FOR ME MAINTENANCE! I agree with rim brakes. One good advantage is a good access to the hub when I wash my wheels. On disk brakes bike is hard to get to the hub, one side cassette and the other the disk. When washing my bike I always take off the wheels, take wheels to the shower with me and frame I wipe off with dump cloth. Fitting wheels back to the rim brake bike is a breeze. Thank you for a wonderful video.

[@shannontrainer5857]

Replacing a worn-out rim is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

[@55whiplash]

Never regretted getting my custom made with rim brakes, I've used both for years but disc brakes eventually always make noise that annoys me. I hate the idea of hydraulic brakes on a bike, it defeats the inherent simplicity and elegance of bike although I admit they stop well.

[@mikemaxwell2591]

I think your bike is great Mr. Wildberry down to the colors, wheels, all of it. Something to be proud, well done.

[@Radnally]

Good topic. I just welded a rear post mount on my 1995 Hard rock. I put a reinforcing brace in the triangle. Vastly superior stoping compared to the old canti brake. BB7 is a simple and very good brake. I ride a lot of non-paved and wet surfaces.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Nice! Are you putting a disc brake mount on the front fork too?

[@Radnally]

Henrywildeberry :Yes, I did. The stock fork is pretty beefy. I've had it on for about a month and I'm not noticing any flex or cracks, etc.. I noticed that your builder, Fitz, had disc brakes on his bike. Very nice bike, incidentally! I'm presently building an OS tubed road frame and I'm kinda trying to copy his....

[@Henrywildeberry]

Excellent! I imagine the Hard Rock fork was built with thicker steel for off-road use. It seems like a good candidate for a disc conversion. Good luck on your road bike build, it sounds like a fun project!

[@leestimson12]

Ms. Cools to the rescue (with a little laughter, that was cute).

[@jamessher6956]

Henry I really like your bike and enjoy your videos and the very cool Ms Cools. You probably won’t like this comment but I think you keep coming up with reasons to justify your love of retro and it is not necessary. Hard to believe a one inch quill stem, down tube shifters, rim brakes help with performance. I love Retro but see no need to try and justify that old stuff performs better than new stuff. For the record my bike is a steel Soma Wolverine, steel fork, 650B x 47 tires .

[@pedaldriven417]

Thanks for the video.I prefer rim brakes.Thinking about putting Soma supple tires on my Surly LHT.

[@rollinrat4850]

Nice tires! So fast and like a Cadillac. I'm on 33c EXs. I have them on 43 year old Campy Record wheels set up fixed gear on an old 'cross bike. They are so fast and smooth I need to use a cog 2 teeth smaller than my knobbies so I don't spin out! Get the fattest that will fit in your frame. I'm getting the 42s eventually. Ride 'em at a nice low pressure and enjoy the comfort and traction. They're awesome for cornering and fine for hard dirt trail too. I think these are as nice as the Rene Herse tires. They look very similar and are also made by Panaracer.

[@MonoLake02]

I had a bike built for me and I told them that I wanted a rando style all-road bike that was simple and reliable. I received a 650b lugged bike with rim brakes, triple crank, racks, and tire clearance up to 50mm. We discussed what I wanted and I gave them some wiggle room to be creative. Well it was/is a real surprise and it still amazes me how they created a work of art that can be used every day while putting a smile on my face every time. I was not sure about it when I first saw it, but riding it was a revelation. I have never owned a disc brake bike, but if I buy any more bikes, I will probably opt for them just for the better modulation and overall stopping power (perhaps on a dedicated mountain bike). Thanks for the great vid...

[@lorenzsiggel1515]

I think the fork weight, compliance and rear spacing arguments are the most relevant for choosing rim over disk. On the other hand stopping power with load or wet conditions speaks for disk over rim. My steel road bike has rim brakes and is fun to ride (the sports car) and the steel gravel/touring bike has disk brakes and is fun to ride (the SUV) albeit heavier. Maintenance wise I find them comparable. Rub from untrue rim or untrue disk....and I'm rambling on here too. Good food for thought and it is always great to see the area you ride in.

[@shannontrainer5857]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX29knyKrpqqbqs

[@zypang1447]

Rim brakes are easy to use, maintain and cheap. Disc brakes and with internal routing can take hours to install and adjust. Rim brake takes mere few minutes.

[@Dave435l]

Good thoughts especially about weight and stiffness. I have both and I feel like a lot of "safety" marketing goes into disc brakes. "What if you end up going too fast in a hypothetical insanely wet scenerio so can't clear your brake tracks with the first pull" kinda stuff

[@shannontrainer5857]

Jeremy Stanley also believes that rim wear doesn't exist.

[@kenblair2538]

Kool "Instructional" video. Like the way you moved between locations. Anyway, I don't know/understand, all the hoopla is between the 2 braking systems. My new Raleigh Carbon came with disc brakes, and there ok, They stop. I can lockup but rim and disc, too. I had to have , one bike with carbon and disc. for my collection. I don't ride in in-climate weather, which is a positive for disc. Only negative, I find with discs, is the bed-in procedure. It's a PITA for me. Bottom line, that's the reason for having multiple bikes , as well as custom. Right Mr. Wildberrry ? I seem to ride my steel bikes, more than my 1 carbon and 1 aluminum bikes. And yes, Ms. Cools is right, you can ramble on ......................KB

[@Henrywildeberry]

Having multiple bikes affords you the best of all worlds. You can chose the bike best suited for the conditions. Having only one bike changes the equation. On the other hand, having too many bikes becomes a challenge in finding a place to keep them. I'm trying to keep my fleet to a manageable level and I find I still have two bikes I very rarely ride. If I can figure out how to combine those two into one I would, or maybe I should just sell both? Rambling on....Thanks for the comment!

[@kenblair2538]

@@Henrywildeberry My kids got married and moved out several years ago, converted their entertainment room , into a man cave, bikes, work shop, stereo listening room, and PC area. My wife got their bedrooms for her hobbies. Enjoy it while to can.

[@Korina42]

@@Henrywildeberry I'm lucky; I have a stable of three, one of which (the 2016 hybrid) I rarely ride. My two vintage steel mountain bikes get ridden frequently; one's my commuter/ride all day bike, and the other's my off-road steed. I'm having difficulty believing it, but I may have reached N.

[@rollinrat4850]

Haha Ive got 9 and a big pile of parts, but only 3-5 are rideable at any time! The real problem is finding time to ride them all!

[@aygwm]

Disc brakes have their own issues. Annoying to adjust, easy to contaminate. If you ask me, so long as you don’t ride in wet scenarios, rim brakes are my preference.

[@Squidkidde]

I agree with your thoughts on aesthetics unless you're talking cantis vs. v-brakes. Cantis may be more fussy but v-brakes are fugly.

[@davyhaynes6716]

Agree on the V-brakes are fugly comment.

[@Squidkidde]

@Stephen Morton Clearly people do look at brakes or there wouldn't be a video above this comment section. I'm glad you like your v-brakes.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

I built a disc adventure/touring bike and although I love discs on my mtb, I am going to keep the road bike a rim brake one, and maybe replace my adventure bike with a v-brake road bike that can be equipped with fenders and at least a rear rack. Everyone knows discs work well, but they don't often realize the compromises to them that matter so much with the subtleties of bicycle design.

[@viveviveka2651]

Excellent video. Thank you. I'd really like to see a video delving into the subject of what makes for a really lively, really fun, enjoyable-riding bike. A very small percentage of the many bikes I've tried out have an unusually enjoyable ride, way beyond the others. I don't know exactly what goes into that, or what is behind it. Why do some bikes stand out like that? How can one make that happen? What design elements are involved? You touched on some of it, but I would really like to see this explored thoroughly, understood well, and nailed down.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thanks for the interesting topic suggestion!

[@rollinrat4850]

Vive Viveka It's funny you say that. I think that ride quality is what Jan Heine refers to as 'planing'. I wrench on all sorts of bikes every day. My shop is in a pretty posh town and I get to tune and ride lots of insanely expensive bikes. Stupid expensive and many of the riders don't really 'use' them! Some high end race bikes just feel like something holds them back while there are inexpensive cruisers that feel zippy and function perfect given that they're cheap bikes. Every once in awhile Ill tune a bike, maybe not even a particularly expensive bike, go test ride it and it just wants to fly! These bikes beg to be pedaled harder! Im not sure where it comes from. Ive checked, replaced and tuned all the bearings, wheels, tires, gears etc and I just can't figure out what makes them feel faster! These are the bikes that make my day! It makes my labor worthwhile! The test rides are always extended sometime to 1/2 hr! If you ever get the chance to ride a bike with pro quality tubular tires do so! They give bikes a magic carpet ride quality that's like nothing else, almost unbelievable! Probably why the pros still use this archaic technology. Its what I miss most from my days as a road racer! Tires always make a huge difference!

[@58shortboard]

Henry, always informative. I’m building a mini-velo for around the town, daily commuting. Can you use shimano r8000 shifters with Paul component mini-moto (v-brake that has a noodle) in front and a Paul cantilever in the rear? Shifters are short pull and all brakes are short pull, btw. Wheels are 451 size. Referred to as 20”, but closer to 22”. Rims can accommodate 23mm-37mm. Also, any tire recommendations for all around riding and occasional light gravel? Thanks, Michael

[@rollinrat4850]

Just Ask Paul. Theyll know what works best with their products. I wish Paul would make an old school drop bar brake ONLY lever, but lots of riders never learned how to shift the old fashioned way so Paul probably wouldn't sell many. Mini V brakes are good stoppers but sometimes they will be limited in pad clearance, especially with short pull brake levers which could cause some rubbing. Especially if your wheels aren't true. Shimano mechanical brifters have a short cable pull and work best with the brakes they were designed to be used with, such as dual pivots or the newer integrated post mount type units. These both are very strong brakes if you don't need fatter tires. That's their biggest limitation. Personally I'm not a fan of brifters. They're overpriced, prone to contamination, aging and crash damage. They often have compatibility issues which may be a factor in field repairs and replacement on a long tour. In hard use they will last 5-10 years at most. If you're shifter cable breaks inside the shifter (pretty common) you're in for a headache. I generally love Shimano, but not their brifters. They never last as long as I'd like, with my brand of abuse or commensurate with their high price. I prefer bar ends with a friction option or the micro ratcheting friction type. They are compatible with anything and never stop shifting! My 3 sets of Dura Ace bar cons are all at least 20 years old. Still working great! They've been abused, repeatedly hosed down , thrown down in the dirt and raced on a 'cross course. Simple is as simple does! Since I spend more time pedaling than most riders, I dig these 'cockroach' type products! Stuff you can't kill!

[@RiverCat999]

Great video. Thanks for the run through on your bike build and its handling and performance capabilities. It's a beauty. Any chance you can publish the complete specs on your custom bike? Thanks again for the video and all the effort you put into your channel.

[@tomordr]

Loved the rambling ending and Ms Cools laughing. Your videos always feel good. Off topic but my 62 year old brain went on the fritz and I forget the name of the type stem that is on your bike. Thanks for another fun video

[@Henrywildeberry]

tomordr thanks! My stem is Nitto NP.

[@phillipcowan1444]

Last week on my morning commute I had to make a panic stop to avoid a skunk who sauntered out into the middle of the trail. By the time I stopped I had the front wheel locked up and as my feet touched the ground I realised the rear wheel was about 6 inches off the ground and didn't drop till I released my death grip on the front lever. The brakes are Tektro sidepulls grabbing A23's. Disc brakes might have given me more power but it's hard to see how I could have used it without going over the bars.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Excellent point! It doesn't matter how well the brakes can the stop the wheel, if you don't have enough traction the tire is going to slide, or if it does stop too quickly you're momentum will send you over the bars. Also, it's very dangerous braking too hard in a turn on a wet road. I ride in the rain on occasion and the only times I have crashed was because of an oil slick, or sliding through mud I didn't see. Disc brakes wouldn't have changed the outcome in any of those crashes. In my opinion disc brakes give people a false sense of safety. It's better to ride safe for the conditions and not push the equipment to the limit, or your own riding capabilities. Be smart and ride safe, and as they always told us at the beginning of a bike race, no one wins on the descent (unless you're Chris Froome and that was just pure luck). Thanks for the comment! Happy riding!

[@Henrywildeberry]

👆 Oh and for the record I wasn't very good at bike racing, so take that point with a grain of salt. I'm sure someone out there somewhere has won a bike race on the descent, but they were probably very good at picking lines through the turns and not using the brakes.

[@phillipcowan1444]

@@Henrywildeberry When I think of fearless descenders Gert Jan Theunisse comes to mind. I think he rarely touched the brakes lol.

[@Henrywildeberry]

And Martyn Ashton - Road Bike Party didn't seem to have any problems with all the technical trials on rim brakes, and he used carbon rims too. This tread might get some people upset so prepare yourself!

[@rollinrat4850]

Henrywildeberry Many people dont even know how to use the brakes they currently have in a most efficient manner. Much less set the brakes up or maintain them to be most effective. The evidence is in all the rear pads I replace. If you’re not replacing front pads twice as often as rears you’re not using your brakes to their full potential. I replace cooked and overheated rear pads and rotors almost every day! Overheating your brakes is evidenced by fading, glazed pads and discolored rotors. If your rotors look slightly blue, yellow or pink, you’ve overheated changed the temper of the metal. Not a good thing. Since disc brakes came along busy dirt trails are much more choppy and hacked out in corners. Braking bumps everywhere! Have you noticed that? Riders need to learn how to ride!! Why are so many afraid to use that front brake? Try driving a motor vehicle just using the e-brake!!

[@cameronbracken6223]

Nice discussion Henry, thanks! I always enjoy "bike nerding out" with you (think that's a Russ/ PLP coinage, maybe) Have followed the entire process of your Fitz build and had wondered about the brake choice. Based on that, I happened to have a brief discussion with Matt from Crust Bikes, since he is coming out with some frame designs specifically featuring .... Rim Brakes! Quill stems, too. Actually his new Lightning Bolt reminded me a lot of your Fitz. Anyway, for him, it's that you can make a lighter frame with rim brakes than with discs. Not so much about ultimate stopping power or wet weather, etc. Or popular demand either. Good on both of you for " going against the grain" somewhat. Think it's awesome

[@Henrywildeberry]

Cameron Bracken That is the best news I’ve heard coming out of the bike industry in a long time! Thanks for the information. It’s great to see a young bike company bringing back a conventional design. Matt from Crust Bikes gets a double thumbs up from me!

[@rollinrat4850]

The most important part of any brake is that the operator knows how to use them to their utmost ability and that they are tuned and maintained to perform their best. Obviously sound engineering and quality is very important, apples must be compared to apples. I'm an old mechanic and even longer, a hardcore rider. Ive seen it all. I see discolored rotors and glazed braking surfaces, squealing brakes, trashed rotors and pads worn to the backing plate. I replace rear pads, disc or rim, far more than front brakes which all tells me one thing. I see neglected poorly working brakes, disc or rim frequently which tells me another. Its the RIDER, not the bike!! Some otherwise well equipped new midrange bikes come with mechanical discs so weak you can pedal through brakes applied hard! All to meet a pricepoint! COMPROMISED BRAKES! Its your life and your money folks. Better wise up!! Let's not even mention department store and cheap Chinese garbage!! This SHIT isn't safe! Performance wise, pros are still using rim brakes as well as tubular tires. Brakes don't make you go faster. When I raced back in the 70s & '80s most everyone used Campy Nuovo Record. They were jokingly referred to as speed modulators. They sure looked sexy though! Even now I use cantis with a purposely weak set up on my fixed gear 'cross bike for a reason. They force me to carry more momentum and ride faster! I usually just slow down with my feet. In the pro peleton, in the next year or two, rim brakes will be gone and the burden will fall on mechanics. Especially neutral, non team mechanics! Thru axles, hub widths and rotor size will all be new complications for mechanics, not to mention different drivetrains. Mechanics are probably the longest and hardest working guys in the pro peloton. I feel sorry for these guys. Haha! All this new and fancy tech is job security for me! The more complicated it gets, the busier I am! Our queue is out to 2 months now! But I just keep riding my old singlespeeds most because I don't need to wrench on my own 'junk' as much! I'd rather ride than wrench!

[@flpirate45]

Great topic Henry, loved it Thanks.

[@obtugtxivtub]

One of my buddy did a DC on his new disc Di2 bike. Bike fell and the rear derailleur went off so he had to single speed the who ride. Then it also rain and the disc was making all kind of noise.

[@davidcummings5826]

Thank you for the great video offering pros and cons, not just “this one is better.” You have a unique, custom bike that not many will purchase, but I think another important point to cover is your choice of post-mounted center-pulls. I was hoping to hear a little about that discussion in terms of how they differ from typical bracket-mounted center-pulls. Also, I would love to hear the explanation of your choice of center-pulls over the more ubiquitous cantilever. (Did you already cover this and I forgot?) I like that you didn’t dwell on point #5, but agree that aesthetics ARE important. However, it’s on par with “why did I choose green?” Not necessarily a reason to choose one type of bike over another, but something that influences overall decisions. For the record, I think you nailed it! ;)

[@shannontrainer5857]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX29knyKrpqqbqs

[@davidcummings5826]

@@shannontrainer5857 A more appropriate title would be "Why it's important to check your brake surface." Same could be said of your brake pads, calipers, rotors, etc. You go on a tour, you better know your equipment.

[@edwardweiszbeck1649]

This input really helped. I'm gonna build a rim brake randonneur instead of disc now too. What is your gear drive train system you're running ?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thank you, and good luck with your build. I'm using a 46-30 double up front and an 11-32 rear cassette, 9-speed.

[@jackkennedy_1963]

Enjoyed this. And agree. But STOPPING POWER was not a major topic? And no mention of the different issues of mechanical vs. hydraulic vs. disc brakes?

[@rollinrat4850]

Quality caliper brakes can be made plenty powerful to stop under most conditions. Ive used them for years on and offroad, racing cx, touring, mtb etc. Most issues arise with set up and a riders skill in getting the most out of their brakes. Many riders are afraid to use those front brakes! Just like a car, they can provide about 70% of stopping power. Disc brakes certainly operate better in extreme circumstances such as the wet, grime and dealing with heavy loads prevalent in mtb and touring. But they add expense (very expensive complex brake/shifters), difficulty of maintenance in the field and most importantly (at least for me) lessen comfort and flexibility of the fork. I also favor simplicity and the ability to maintain my bike far from help. I bikepack into very remote areas. I demand absolute reliability! I wrench in a shop and get to experience all the issues. The marketing and hype of road discs is mostly driven by the need to sell new bikes!

[@brianward7724]

I bought a brand-new (2019 model) gravel bike last week, so it's interesting to hear you talk about "improvements" in disc brake performance in recent years. Going back to earlier times, i.e. early this century, I worked on bikes with cable-operated discs and, although the ones on the bikes we sold were fairly basic, I was able to get the brakes working quite well. That is not the case with my new gravel bike's brakes, which are also cable-operated. The first time I applied the brakes (100 metres from home!) there was only VERY slight retardation! I'm hoping that it's merely a case of the pads needing to bed in, otherwise, I'm at a loss.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Brian Ward Hi Brian, I’m not an expert on the various models of disc brakes, and I’m not sure what model/brand you have, but my guess is the same as yours. The pads likely need a chance to bed in and the rotors may still have oil residue on them from when they were packaged. You may want to wipe the rotors down with alcohol or some other type of solvent. I would give that a try first. Mechanical discs are not as powerful as hydraulic, but working properly they should provide plenty of stopping power.

[@brianward7724]

@@Henrywildeberry (tongue-in-cheek) Is red wine okay to use?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Of course, any bottle barn special can be used on the 2019 gravel bike, but best to save the Grand Vin Pauillac for the Alex Singer.

[@brianward7724]

@@Henrywildeberry Thanks! Not sure what the Alex Singer is but, at a guess, probably the best disc brake brand? Oh, I forgot to mention in my earlier comment that the brakes on my hand-made carbon road bike are Ultegra 'normal' brakes - and they are fantastic!

[@Henrywildeberry]

Brian Ward I was just having a little fun with your comment. I’m not sure Alex Singer makes a disc brake bike, but either way his bikes are highly sought-after. The wine should be consumed after servicing the brakes and paired with your favorite post ride meal!!! Could you imagine the look on the vitner’s face if we were cleaning our brakes with a bottle of wine? I’m glad to hear the rim brakes are working well. I just got back from a 4-day tour in the Sierra Mountains. I loaded the Fitz with about 20 lbs of stuff (tent, sleeping pad, pillow, change of cycling shorts, food, extra clothes, small camera, and some other small items) and the brakes worked flawlessly even on the gravel road descending. Ms. Cools on the other hand developed a slight brake rub, but wasn’t willing to try to sort it out and just rode with it making a little noise. It didn’t seem to hold her back, but was mainly an annoyance. Please keep me informed on when you sort out the disc brake issue.

[@astrayagrarian]

“Disc brakes have improved drastically in the past couple of years” Clearly haven’t improved enough considering that the pros of rim brakes still outweigh the “pros” of disc brakes

[@rollinrat4850]

I'm a mechanic in a shop. Road discs are simply job security for me! Some models are ok if you ride in rain lots, haul big loads or descend steep mtns often. They bring lots more sales too! They are definately not cheaper to own and operate. Fact is, there's a sucker born every minute!! Disc brakes are little more than a means to sell new road bikes. Road discs and even some mtb brakes very often waste my time with all their frame fit issues and lack of pad clearance. Most rim brakes don't cause even 1/2 these problems. If you 'need' ultra strong brakes, many mtb hydros, (excepting Sram's garbage) are dialed, tested and proven to work well. That's what I use. Not to mention rim brakes on most of my old bikes. No matter what brakes you use, disc or rim, the rider's skill as well as the mechanic's will make the biggest difference BY FAR!

[@watertankhikes]

I'm sure you are aware of this, but then again, maybe not....I wanted to find out where Gold Cost Coffee Roastery was (shown in the video at 1:27). So I looked it up, and there was your bike out in front of the coffee house on Google Street View. The view is dated April 2019, and you have to get in the correct position, as the view skips to June 2016 views on either side.

[@RevoltingRudi]

That bike with that british racing green looks so cool. don´t change anything! what deraileur do you run? deep section "silver" all chrome and shine rims migth look even better on the bike.

[@spudaei]

Thanks for the video, looking at building up a Rando style frame with a local bike builder...I keep going back and forth on rim vs disc. The penny pinching side of me wants to go with disc so I could just swap wheel sets with my other bike(s), but I’m starting to think that it’s a poor reason that only limits my build and stable.... until I can commit to rim breaks, I think I’ll hold on the build.

[@rollinrat4850]

Penny pinching? Haha. Disc brakes will never ever be more cost effective than rim brakes. I'm a pro shop mechanic. I sell overpriced pads and rotors every single day. I install, repair and bleed them too!

[@jakobw135]

What about using a rim brake for the FRONT and a disk at the REAR? Why did you choose Fitz Cyclez instead of European brands like Patria or Stanforth?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Jakob W Fitz is a located near me and I wanted to be able to meet in person, go over the specs together, and support my local cycling community.

[@desert.mantis]

Good job on the comparison, Henry. I Noticed you wearing the League of American Bicyclists tee shirt. If you haven't already, maybe you could do a video about the organization and why you have the shirt. I have never heard of the league before this video.

[@littlegoose9860]

Hi HWB -- I've only ever owned steel (or aluminum) bikes with rim brakes but really want to try carbon fiber and disc. Have you ridden a contemporary CF bike with disc brakes? If so, how'd you like? If no, are you curious? How does Ms. Cools like her disc brakes, what did she consider when making that choice, and what are the details of her disc setup? I wonder if CF bikes with disc brakes, due to the material properties, have less of the spacing requirements and issues you mentioned?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Hi Little Goose, Yes, I've ridden a modern carbon gravel bike with disc brakes and carbon wheels. Overall, it was a great bike. It was a lot stiffer than my steel bike, and a few pounds lighter. I made a video about it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJabfqV7l9GEkMk In general, I consider this a race day bike. It's light but not as comfortable as the steel bike. The modern shifters are fast and allow you to shift with your hands on the bars. Depending on your preferences and style of riding it could be a great option. The disc brakes worked well, but they were certainly not without issue. When they heat up they can rub and dirt can get between the pads and rotors. Rim brake bikes are also come with their own set of issues too. Where I live and ride I prefer the springy steel frame and rim brakes for most rides. The roads here are rough and bumpy and it only rains a few months out of the year. If my steel frame breaks I can have it welded in a matter of a few days. If carbon breaks it's a warranty return and who know's? I have nothing bad to say about either type of bike, they all have a place and purpose. It comes down to your needs, budget, riding conditions, and style. All the best!!!

[@theresecools3079]

Hello! I like my disc brakes ok but I wish my VO had come with rim brakes instead! My brakes are a hybrid hydraulic disc. In the long run they will take more maintenance and be more expensive than rim brakes. They do stop pretty well when they are set up well though!

[@WheelersAtLarge]

It's so easy to get caught up in the modern day hype and as a traditional bike it looks amazing 👌

[@archetypex65]

You really think Hydro discs are hype? 🤣🤣🤣 well it's probably only a handful of reasons why you would believe such nonsense. One you don't own a hydro disc bike. 2 you have little understanding of physics and mechanical/hydraulic actuation and three you just a dumbass 😂

[@WheelersAtLarge]

@@archetypex65iI agree hydro brakes are fantastic, both our bikes are hydro but to hype them up to the point of saying if you dont have them you're wrong? It's all about understanding the technology. I Have mechanical discs on another bike and still seem to instinctively ride within the limitations of that setup. Julie has tennis elbow and I weigh 250lbs and those factors influenced our decision, so let's estimate Henry is 160lbs and can mash the brakes as hard as he likes when he needs to, so any brake system won't need to work as hard which gives him far more options.

[@Chris66able]

I bought a Gravel with disc and its put me off cycling completely. Fixing brakes on a bike should be a pair of pliers and a spanner, nothing else. Along with the rip off bike shops, the horrible snobby, attitude of road cyclists, and the fact that bikes now cost 10 times more and seem 20 times less reliable.

[@johnbouttell5827]

Carry on rambling ...

[@twowheeler1662]

Yes, caliper, V-brake, and cantilever brakes are great in most cases. These work best for normal stopping distances in dry conditions. But when things get nasty; long fast descents, wet weather, heavy loads, good disc brakes are a life saver. Lots of factors for modern disc brake choice and performance. My disc mountain bikes use hydraulics for the sheer power in steep descents. My disc road and gravel bikes get by with cable activated TRPs (mechanical and HyRd). All mechanical ones work well, as long as you use compression-less cable housing. Yes the disc brake bikes are bit heavier, but it's not rotating weight. Note, most mechanical disc brakes other than TRPs use a single moving activator pad which forces the rotating disc to flex and rub against the opposite stationary pad. This uneven contact often make adjustments difficult. Using thru axles ensures consistent wheel and disc alignment. Wheel removal is easier as there is no brake pad/tire contact. Of course in the best worlds, we have different rigs for different seasons.

[@wangdangdoodie]

I think the main thing we can deduce from this video is that owners of bikes with rim brakes are incredibly lazy, and shy away from learning anything about their steed & it's upkeep!

[@redsorgum]

How about both, disc in the front, rim brake on the back? I’ve had motorcycles/scooters with a front disc and drum on the back. PS: Nice bike you have.

[@OOTurok]

Went from BMX to MTB, & my MTB came with hydrolic disc brakes. Will never go back to rim brakes, for the simple fact that, rim brakes will not stop you in an emergency, or in the wet, or when bombing downhill... & you don't have to constantly readjust them.

[@marshallferron]

I think the two biggest advantages disc brakes have over rim brakes is that you can change wheel sizes easily and that you're not wearing your rims out when you brake. Another reason would be if you want to use carbon rims. I would never put carbon rims on a rim brake bike. Disc brake wheels with quality components could potentially last a lifetime of riding whereas some people riding rim brakes in harsh conditions have reported replacing their rims after only a season or two. Replacing rotors is far easier than rebuilding wheels.

[@Sills71]

To sum this up... I wanted the bike to feel and look like a REAL road bike, not a MTB or a stiff, dead feeling "gravel" bike....

[@recyclespinning9839]

Good video rambler. . I have a older Bianchi Volpe made in Japan touring bike. I was considering a new bike with discs for touring . Heard about the better braking and modulation especially on hydraulic brakes. Now I am just thinking new cool stop brake pads.. you may have lost a new bike sale. 🤓. By the way you have an awesome bike. I can tell it tracks and rides well just from the little I see you riding it...

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thanks ReCycle! I definitely think it's worth giving the new pads a try before committing to buying a new bike. If it works out you'll have more money to spend on doing more bike tours.

[@recyclespinning9839]

@@Henrywildeberry thanks I looked at that part about using the money for tour.. Because the bike I was considering was 1500$. A Jamis renegade steel , with carbon fork. I guess I need to give the bianchi a try. It was bought used but practically new old stock, new wheels and components. Although at some point would like to try a titanium bike with rack mounts and disc brakes for touring/ gravel. My Italian road race bike, well not racing it but ride it once in a while for ole time sake ...

[@Henrywildeberry]

@@recyclespinning9839 Go on the tour and if you still want a disc bike you'll know when you get back. There will always be a new bike for sale.

[@bradsanders6954]

I have a 1990 MASI Volumetrica,also a 2014 Roubaix carbon bike. Masi rides smmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmooooooooth. Roubaix needs big a tires as can fit to mask the frame having no give to it.

[@Henrywildeberry]

While tire volume makes a huge difference, I think frame material matters too. Optimizing for comfort with carbon is more difficult because carbon has a high stiffness to weight ratio, and a very high strength to weight ratio. These are often marketed as benefits, but in order to ensure it is also strong and durable carbon tubes need to be thick enough to handle impact loads from rocks flying up or the occasional bump or bruise it may see from handling it, or the occasional over-tightening of bolts. Steel on the other hand is highly impact resistant and can be drawn very thin making it both light and strong. By drawing the tubes thin it means the frame is also springy and absorbs the bumps. The downside with joining thin tubes is potentially weak joints. Welded joints can fatigue early if not done properly. It takes a very skilled welder to get it right. Lugged joints on the other hand are more forgiving, but add weight to the bike. There are various modern steel alloys now that exhibit better performance when welded, provided they are welded properly. The optimal design is one that is custom made to order. It's extremely expensive to do that with carbon, but with steel it's actually quite affordable. Like everything in an imperfect world both materials have pros and cons. For a day to day riding I prefer steel. However, I do see the benefits of carbon especially for a racing bike.

[@OldschoolDT]

Hi Henry, I'm fascinated about steel frames too, and shortly I have bought an old Enik handsoldered frame of the late eighties, with a nice fork crown and cantilever sockets! On my randonneur project, I changed an old trekkingbike from straight handlebars to dropbars, I had to swap the v-brakes to cantilever brakes because of the Shimano Tourney brifter, but when I ride down a hill, the brakes are too weak. Maybee i'm too heavy (120kg). Which type of brake would you recommend for me? cyclocross cantilevers, mini-v-brakes, or should I choose for the Enik frame normal v-brakes with special dropbar brakelevers like the Tektro RL-520? But when I choose the Tektros, I have to find a solution for shifting the gears, and I would prefer indexed shifters on the stem or barend shifters. Regards Armin from Germany

[@Pastashock]

I feel that cable discs offer a unique benefit in that they are still cable operated and thus simple to maintain while also allowing your expensive wheels to not become a wear item. The benefit really applies when you ride in not ideal conditions though, rain, snow, puddles and mud. Otherwise rims hold up for thousands of miles of riding. But as far as 2mm of adjustment becoming a ride cancelling issue due to rubbing, cable discs still inherit that issue.

[@Korina42]

Have you heard (bird is the word) about cable actuated disc brakes? If you're gonna go disc, that sounds like the best way.

[@archetypex65]

@@Korina42 really?! See you believe that cable-actuated this brakes are better than Hydro disc brakes? #lmfao 🤣 another uninitiated Muppet

[@the_derpler]

Sadly, my tektro canti lever brakes on my Ritchey are the bane of my existence. I've been considering changing them to V-brakes. Currently they at worst rattle my teeth out of my skull or at best vibrate a tiny bit. Maybe time to admit defeat and have pros try to adjust them for me heh.

[@Henrywildeberry]

I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with them. I've only heard great reviews of V-brakes, with only a limited experience myself. Some say they don't like the aesthetics, but that's a matter of personal taste. I think they look good, especially the Paul brand.

[@oliverberger5946]

Your yellow jersey looks really really nice. Can you name the brand, please? By the way, your bike looks really beatiful. I would love to ride such a bike here in germany on a classic brevet.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thanks Oliver. This is a Girodana Fusion jersey. It's one of their lower priced models, nothing flashy. I like it because it has reflective stripes on the sleeve, and on the back pockets. It's good option for improved visibility.

[@themoodyteam]

Still rocking Girodana! As ever, nice 👍

[@ciccioformaccio7527]

I like your bike very much, but my very personal impression is that you have chosen the rim brake only for an aesthetic reason. You got it (and I may agree with you), but in term of brake effectiveness your choice is the worst. I wish to see you in a long descent (over 10 km) with fully load bike (for a touring), I am quite sure your hands and finger would like to have hydraulic disk brake (or at least V-brakes).

[@shannontrainer5857]

Jeremy did choose it purely for aesthetic reasons. After all, he is a retrogrouch. He also believes that freewheel hubs are superior, despite being notorious for bent and broken axles.

[@daddy-jake]

I would really like to convert from disc to rim. Maintenance is my number one concern. I would assume there is a special type of brake pad for carbon wheels? Or is it generally frowned upon to use a rim brake with a carbon wheel?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Hi Jake, I wish there was an easy way to convert from disc to rim, but the differences in the frame and rims are not cross compatible. You can find carbon specific rim brake pad, however, a disc rim does not have a braking surface. The other issue is most disc bike frames no longer have drillings for rim brake calipers. What's worse, a disc frame has special reinforcements in the areas where the disc brake calipers are mounted in order to handle the higher braking stresses. These disc brake frames tend to be a little heavier and not a good starting point if you want to keep the bike as light as possible (which is one of the reasons to go with rim brakes). Furthermore, most rim brake hubs are narrower and use a quick release axle unlike disc brake hubs. If you truly want a rim brake bike your only option is to sell the bike you have and replace it. Generally, you'll be in the hole selling the bike, and making back those losses in maintenance savings will never materialize, unfortunately. Only you can make that decision, but I do wish you all the best!

[@daddy-jake]

@@Henrywildeberry The disc brake squeal curdles my blood. Unfortunately, probably not worth replacing the bike.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Jake Freeland I agree the squeal is very annoying. Have you experimented with different pads or rotors? Check to make sure the rotors aren’t bent and the calipers are aligning correctly with the rotors. Sometimes that will eliminate the squealing. Good luck!

[@ronskayakingandfishing414]

Great video, I agree completely about choosing rim brakes. Hey, by the way.... what bag is that you have on the back there?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Ron's Kayaking and Fishing It is the Ruthworks saddle bag, size medium.

[@broadfjord7087]

Degradation of wheel integrity with rim brakes is the main reason i choose disc brakes.

[@jamesmason2291]

I agree

[@christophh.1246]

I ride 20000km a year. Also in winter. Two bikes. Both rim brakes. Need 1 new rim in two years. I find this is not really a problem.

[@robtankbuster5215]

@@christophh.1246 i didn't know i had a problem with my rim brakes. I Just see the point of disc, more weight, more fuss and more money, why.

[@davidmailander8165]

Any thought given to carbon rims?

[@solarheat9016]

1 pound extra for a steel disc brake fork? That sounds excessive. I will look into it.

[@DucNgn]

So what's your recommended rim brakes? Paul's minimoto looks nice to me but kinda pricey.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Hi Duc - Thanks for the comment. It's a little difficult to give you a brake recommendation. I've had good luck with a number of different brakes from caliper, cantilever, and center-pulls. I've heard great reviews about Paul Components from a few different people I know who use them, but I haven't tried them myself. I would really like too. The Mafac center-pulls I have now work okay, but are a pain to set up. Pad choice seems to really affect performance. I've been experimenting with different pad compounds and haven't found one I would say is excellent. Some are better than others. I think the Paul Minimotos are likely to be a very powerful brake.

[@DucNgn]

@@Henrywildeberry Thank you for the quick reply. My new first bike came with cantilever brakes which upset me at the very first but the more I play with them, the more I get interest in these bicycle-things and yes I agree , it's such a pain setting those breaks. I appreciate your work in sharing thoughts and experiences, especially with the metric system which the other part of the world like me could easily understand. Cheers!

[@simonunwin3966]

Interesting- thanks

[@johnwelch557]

There should be nothing contentious about this subject. It's a reasoned choice for the rider. For my view, life is full of tech. Complications for us all that are needless. Maintenance is my issue. I have both systems on several bikes that I try to wear out. Just give me the rim brakes for long, multiple day rides. Thanks!

[@shannontrainer5857]

You do know you also have to replace the wheels every year.

[@sheilastallard]

Lovely Bicycle!!! KISS it ! Keep It Simple Stupid. My husband is harping on about having another bike. He wants a Baines Flying Gate a design from the 1936 !!! I'll let you know if he gets it!!. Keep up the excellent work. Love from England.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Keep me posted! I'd enjoy hearing more about his new (old) bike.

[@ddrhazy]

Disc brakes also rub. I've heard it's impossible to have them dialed in 24/7 without constant adjustments. Unless you live in an area where it rains a lot, rim brakes are the simplest and maintenance/headache free option

[@shannontrainer5857]

watch?v=_MLyw7LiCLc watch?v=KLZaITy5w8I

[@dougturner2408]

Originally I thought disc brakes were designed to be used with carbon fiber rims because the of the challenges of using rim brakes these rims.

[@TheraPi]

You can forget about servicing disc brakes yourself. Maintenance is for me the primary reason I hate discs

[@shannontrainer5857]

Disc brake calipers can easily be realigned by loosening the caliper then holding down the brake lever while retightening. watch?v=KLZaITy5w8I

[@wangdangdoodie]

I have serviced my own disc set ups for the best part of twenty years. Unless you have a severe mental impairment, there is no reason why you can't too!

[@wmlarch]

Brown saddle and bar tape, downtube shifters, rim brakes make perfect sense! Cheers!

[@misanthropickat6167]

I'm moving back to Mendocino county from a bike tour from Arizona. What area do you live in if I might ask?

[@Henrywildeberry]

Nice! Mendocino is beautiful!!! I'm in Sonoma County, so I will be your neighbor to the South.

[@misanthropickat6167]

@@Henrywildeberry you will be my neighbor! Hope to see you on the road some day 👍

[@philhouck3560]

The contention that a bike with a reinforced fork necessary to contend with the stresses a disc brake imposes on the frame will ride differently than a bike with a more shock-absorbant fork for rim brakes isn't fully fleshed out. A stiffer fork doesn't absorb as much shock as the rim brake fork and that will beat up a rider on a long ride. Disc brake forks are less comfortable and comfortable riders are stronger riders.

[@wangdangdoodie]

So using your logic, a granny on a sit up and beg shopper bike is going to be the strongest rider of all, because she's the most comfortable!

[@philhouck3560]

@@wangdangdoodie Sorry you completely misinterpreted my comment. You didn't use my logic at all.

[@shannontrainer5857]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX29knyKrpqqbqs

[@philhouck3560]

@@shannontrainer5857 The problem you reference is far less common than the problems I've seen with disc brakes. The problems I mentioned with disc brakes are inherent in their design. They can be minimized as new designs are developed though never entirely eliminated. On the other hand the rim problem is 1) simply a wear issue that is normal; or 2) caused by trash that got embedded in the pad that gouged the rim. Either problem can be avoided through periodic inspection of the rim and brake pads. Many years ago, I had this problem though it was on a rear wheel. I was using Modolo pads at the time and they were very abrasive. Pads from firms like Kool-Stop are much better on rims as this company specifically designs their pads with this criteria in mind. There is no compelling reason to use disc on a road bike. The reason we have discs on road bikes is because bikes equipped with disc brakes sell. It's not because they are better. Of course there are videos demonstrating that a disc brake bike stops in a few feet less than a rim brake but these tests can be misleading because not all rim brakes and pads are the same. Moreover a good rider anticipates the need to to slow down or stop and will have done so well before any disc brake advantage will have been realized.

[@shannontrainer5857]

@@philhouck3560 Rim brake wear is real. And all wheel manufacturers said that rim brake wheels are indeed wear items, meaning that they all need replacement-usually around once or twice a year, depend on how much you ride and riding conditions. You must been using steel rims that doesn't wear out but have poor braking. You also deliberately left out the fact that rim brake pads requires perfect alignment, otherwise, it will catch the tire. And let's not forget about required toe-in adjustment to compensate for fork twisting. Replacing worn rims is no walk in the park either. Your reasons is Nostalgia and retrogrouchiness. You'er the same type of person who believes that freewheel hubs and cogs are superior to freehubs and cassettes, despite the former being known for bent axles and cogs requiring bench vises for removal.

[@giancarlobergonia2017]

I choose rim break cause i have no money. Haha

[@peterbaskind9872]

If you’re going for a true old school aesthetic, I suppose rim brakes are correct. But if you ever break a spoke on a ride, you very quickly see one of the huge strengths of a disc brake. The brake doesn’t care if you lose true.

[@mariamartins367]

Strength of disc brakes is their performance in wet conditions. You don’t lose spokes that often in your life. I have never like many.

[@dexterjohnson9015]

You weren’t rambling.

[@dzonibravo7867]

Disk brakes are for MTB, nothing more.

[@jeanjeudi1111]

My two cents : Rim brakes work day in day out for decades. Disc brakes are ugly and I can't stand the scritchy scratchy sound they make. Rim brakes just look right on bikes, disc brakes look right on motorcycles

[@davyhaynes6716]

I also prefer traditional brakes for the many reasons you cite. And remember, your rim brakes ARE technically disc brakes, using a “disc” that’s already there, and off the greatest possible disc diameter. The only downside is for those that regularly ride in wet AND gritty conditions that will quickly erode the rim sidewall. I don’t ride often in such conditions. I might feel differently if I lived in the Pacific NW.

[@shannontrainer5857]

Rim brakes are rim brakes, no matter how you spin it. Wheels have to be perfectly trued or else the brakes will grab. Braking causes the inner tube to overheat and sometimes explode. The rim will(not could, will) wear out over time, causing it to split. And sometimes this can happen when braking, causing you to crash.

[@davyhaynes6716]

Breaking will not induce rim heating, although braking will. Also, most brake grabbing is caused by dents or other deformations of the rim, such as might occur during a severe pinch flat, where the tire bottoms out and the rim directly contacts the obstruction. Also, most rim brake designs do a good job of self-adjusting to a laterally untrue rim (and disc brakes will not tolerate a untrue, bent disc-and those are easily damaged). Besides, why would anyone ride with untrue rims? The bump, bump, bump of an untrue rim is uncomfortable anyway, regardless of any effect on braking. Besides, that is easily mended with a few minutes of work with a spoke key. I’ve trued many a wheel on the side of the road after accidents and such. Brake wear of rims is a problem, most notably for mountain bikes and off road riding, where dirt and muddy grit combine to wear away the rim sidewall. Hence, the genesis of disc brakes for bicycles. I’ve worn one through myself back in the day, but it was easy to recognize before catastrophe struck, and simple enough to replace by walking another rim into the wheel (1/2 hour of work). On road bikes, with a few notable exceptions of those that regularly ride in wet, gritty environments, rim wear takes a VERY long time. My current road wheels have well over 60,000 miles on them with still plenty of wear left. In fact, I’ve never worn out a set of road rims-most die from accidents, or failure of spoke eyelets long before the braking surface wears out. Many rims also contain wear marks, to indicate it they are over worn. I’ve also ridden tandems with rim brakes only, including long randonnes in mountainous terrain, in all weathers, and that is the only time I’ve had to be careful to modulate brake heating between the wheels. Most brake heating incidents were back in the day of tubulars, when only minor heating would soften the adhesive, and allow the tire to begin slipping around the rim circumference.

[@shannontrainer5857]

@@davyhaynes6716 Typo "Besides, why would anyone ride with untrue rims?" I said the wheel has to be perfectly trued. "Besides, that is easily mended with a few minutes of work with a spoke key." And a expensive truing stand. And a dishing tool. And a spoke tension gauge. And at least an hour and a half per wheel. "My current road wheels have well over 60,000 miles on them with still plenty of wear left." Either you use a steel rims or ceramic coated aluminum rims or you're lying for the sake of tradition and nostalgia. For plain aluminum rims, the best case scenario is 12000 miles. "I’ve worn one through myself back in the day, but it was easy to recognize before catastrophe struck, and simple enough to replace by walking another rim into the wheel (1/2 hour of work)." Again, you have to be a master wheelbuilder to do in 30 minutes. And most people aren't master wheelbuilders. It would take even a moderately mechanically inclined person at least an hour or two per wheel. v=5JJLngAI3P4

[@davyhaynes6716]

Shannon Trainer, be careful when accusing someone you don’t even know of lying. And, be careful spouting information on the internet when you clearly know very little of what you write. I used traditional aluminum rims with no special coating, although I do use the Mathauser pads, nowadays known as cool stop salmon pads. If road rims wore out from braking at only 12k miles, many folks would have to replace them yearly. They, and I do not. I don’t think you could even manage that with 12k of loaded touring unless a good bit was off-road. Someone reasonably skilled with a spoke wrench can easily true a wheel by using the bike itself as a truing stand. Look it up. For most truing tasks no dishing tool or stand is needed. In fact, the dishing tool is really only needed for a new build, or rim replacement. For that a stand is needed and a nipple driver a big time saver. I’ve built my wheels since long ago; but that level of ability is not required for simple truing tasks. And by the way, replacing a rim is much easier and faster than building a wheel up from scratch-again look it up before you spout on about things you clearly are ignorant of, and continue to advertise your lack of knowledge of the subject. I am sorry if you’ve become offended, which I assume is the case since your defense is that I’m obviously lying. The internet is the great source of information in the history of the world. It is also the greatest source of misinformation. I become annoyed when folks like you want to dispense ‘information’ about a subject upon which you’re clearly not qualified as knowledgeable. It sounds like you’ve heard some of these things in marketing messages where the bike industry thrives to convince people they need a road bike with disc brakes because to ride otherwise would be foolhardy. I suspect you’ve recently been suckered in.

[@shannontrainer5857]

@@davyhaynes6716 road(dot)cc/content/feature/238960-how-tell-when-your-wheel-rims-have-worn-out-and-how-make-them-last-longer Hunt's Ollie Gray says many variables including brake block compound, the frequency of braking, terrain and weather conditions can have an effect on rim lifespan. "The lifespan can fall within a pretty huge window," he explains. "In the worst cases, riders may experience rim lifespans as short as 1500 miles, and in the best cases perhaps up to 12000 miles! So as you can see, it’s a tricky one to put a figure on." And I'm sorry you have to defend your choice of rim brakes to the hilt for the sake of nostalgia and tradition.

[@raffuy9745]

BLA BLA BLA BLA

[@Henrywildeberry]

🥸

[@dablyputs]

Get the microphone closer to your mouth.

[@archetypex65]

Nobody really gives a shit why you chose Antiquated Rim brakes... Aesthetics? Well that's really a perception of the individual. But here's the bottom line if you like them then fine. But please don't try and bloviate and bullshit anybody that they're as good as hydraulic disc brakes because they're not and the weight penalty is negligible. You stick to the archaic mindset as long as you're happy buddy. 👍 so please don't try to pass off rim brakes as anything close to the performance and power of hydro discs 👌😉

[@martinjames672]

Said Chris Froome, 7 time grand tour winner, never.....

[@johnmclean8643]

…And rim brakes typically don’t squeal when they get wet..A disc can squeal and get contaminated and then cost more than a few pennies to fix…🛠🚲🥲