Wizard101: The Great Divide Between PvP and PvE Players

[@lifedeather]

First

[@Firestarter_101]

W

[@keromoki]

damn you….. it was supposed to be me…

[@lifedeather]

@@keromoki you’ll get em next time pal

[@CYGNIUS]

It's especially frustrating that my primary wizard is a fire wizard, and I prefer doing quests solo. Solo is ALREADY hard enough with a fire wiz. Now, it's even harder because of the nerfed high-level spells that I put so much effort into getting.

[@Emerald-tn4rj]

Ratbeard ruined pvp with roshambo and now it’s creeping into pve

[@Firestarter_101]

They def tried with Novus but I think with Wallaru they're realizing they can't force it onto PvE players even if they want to.

[@salvadorlecheese]

FACTS bro roshambo sucks

[@av-vl5nf]

I think what truly killed it was the archmastery changes and roshambo spells. The problem with W101 pvp is that it will always inherently be luck based and can never be truly 100% competively fair. From ages 1-3, ice and balance were by far the best school at basically every level from 50-100. However, every single school had something " broken " to use, whether it be old loremaster and mana burn, efreet, medusa, ice frostbite, death juju spammers, and the list goes on. By nerfing and changing so many of these spells while adding changes like the turn change ( which is good change imo ), archmastery which makes mastery amulets useless, making it super complicated to get into WHILE killing off magus pvp, 76 pvp, low level pvp which killed off a majority of the playerbase. Now I believe that PVP now is 100% in a better state COMPETITIVELY then it was compared to the first 3 ages, however it completely removes any casual players from the activity and casual players have to deal with their favorite spells getting changed constantly due to a basically dead game mode.

[@Firestarter_101]

Yeah Roshambo is ass and Archmastery was a change I don't remember alot of people actually asking for.

[@PowerPawaa]

All this effort they put into raids instead should’ve been used to make a dungeon like Darkmoor. When Darkmoor dropped everyone was hype. Both PvE and PvP players were there for their own reasons but it was a place where both parties would come together. Now they put all this effort into content that 90% of players will never see and then it’s further divided when the remaining players are prob majority PvPers. Low level wiz has lots of checkpoints to look forward to like Mount Olympus, Waterworks, House of Scales, Darkmoor and it’s accessible to everyone. The excitement leading to Darkmoor and then finishing it is where it seems to peak. We don’t really get an experience like this again as we did when we were lower level.

[@Firestarter_101]

Def agree with that, even alot of peev players I know would get behind that statement. Raids are insanely hard to get into (especially Crying Sky which is the relevant one for gear) and a new dungeon everyone can get into would be alot better for the community overall.

[@nevernoknowno]

huge facts. as a pvp only player i will never partake in a raid out of principal. raids are inherently exclusive and in no way will raids ever bring the community together

[@nevernoknowno]

as a PvP only player, I can attest to the barrier of entry to start in max level pvp. idk why they decided to put the pvp gear in raids. imo a huge start for both pve and pvp players would be bringing back the "arena gear". when you play games and gain tickets, even if you lose, you know those tickets will help you eventually acquire all the best gear for pvp and so even when you lose theres a sense of improvement when it comes to gear. as of now there are zero rewards for doing pvp and every lose gets you no where closer to having the meta gear. id love to see a darkmoor 2.0 and an addition of arena crafted gear again. solid video brother, hopefully one day you can try out pvp without having to give up an arm and a leg and hopefully they can bring pve and pvp players back together with another darkmoor type dungeon

[@warehouselead]

If KI is going to change a card for PvP reasons, they should leave the card alone for PvE. Like set it up so cards have a PvP version and a PvE version. This would let them tweak each card based on what area of the game its affecting negatively.

[@Firestarter_101]

Yeah I agree! That's what I was saying with the spellement paths thing.

[@warehouselead]

@@Firestarter_101 For sure! Hopefully they do something.

[@gkjsvdifnm]

that's hard to do apparently with all games, devs have no real idea how to make it so or if they do they out right ignore the players b/c they think they know better than the ppl playing and living through it..... I think only a few games (like I can count on 1 hand few) I play that the devs finally did so after years of players telling them to do so, I think this has something to do with the fact the devs just don't give a f till it gets them in hot water with money dropping away

[@NaughtyNina1240]

KI keeps releasing content that caters to only 0.5 to 2% of the community. They should focus on keeping players happy instead of maximizing how much time they waste farming and stay online. At some point the casual portion of the community will say: "this isn't worth doing\farming" as they alienate the playerbase. Remember when in the past to finish revered crafting quest you had to pvp? They realized that barely anyone does it, so they removed participation trophy requirement. Imagine if they look at the numbers and go: "Strange...only 0.5% of players are doing the new raid."

[@jacobbiesbrock7797]

Honestly I think they bring back the spells before the changes but they can only be used for pve and pvp players need to have the spellement versions of the spells

[@Firestarter_101]

I can get behind that tbh, Peev players alr need to use Spellements for gambits anyways

[@julianpiechel3]

Great video as a hardcore pvp player since 5th age started I can tell you allot of pvpers would prefer it to be different than it is now especially the barrier to entry and the entirely different system to OG wiz before 5th age I was mostly a pve player and was just casually playing pvp so I def understand both point of views

[@Firestarter_101]

Really happy you enjoyed the vid! Honestly thought it would be a toss up to whether 5th age pvpers would like the vid or hate it. I've heard of you in the peev community (Roundtable) before so it was surprising seeing you comment lol. It's also good to see someone who's more middle ground, feels like with some people they close themselves off to only PvP communities or only PvE communities when we're all just Wizheads.

[@doom2161]

Level 130 pvp was peak, dragoon gear was grindy but not obnoxious to farm, some stupid old school wiz stuff fixed like mana burn, lore spam, efreet -90%, juju which were the reason behind 99% problems in old school pvp while keeping enchants or even solar surge which was fine but shouldnt have been locked behind any rank and making the game less convoluted

[@Firestarter_101]

I know someone with the near exact same take on Visionary Peev lol.

[@fredthetank8386]

Yep. They should have stopped there

[@doom2161]

@@Firestarter_101 maybe its bias but every school had something overpowered even after the first few tweaks like that so it was really balanced in the end except for a few things that were still managable

[@Firestarter_101]

@@doom2161 Bro I've heard Gold say the exact same thing 💀.

[@TheBryguy515]

I'm sorry but it still won't change things, the last 5-8 updates have just been to either A) Add raids/adjust them for the top 0.1% of wizard101. B) Add a pack knowing the addicts will spend hundreds to get whatever they wanted out of it. C) Add more spellements/spellement paths in order to increase the grind. In all the entirety of updates have been most and mainly in order to increase revenue/microtransactions. I feel like this is ultimately going to lead to the game collapsing. I for one am not going to spend hundreds of dollars, or 40+ hours a week in order to get a piece of gear/item that's going to be outdated/useless in the next whatever update they do to spells or dropping new gear. What I believe is their goal, and has been for a while is to get people in a cycle of feeling like they're going to miss out, on whatever *NEW* thing hits in order to spend more and more money. The magic is just starting to die, or is dying at this point. (This is coming from a player who has been playing this game since about 2011.)

[@Firestarter_101]

Yeah honestly ever since 2022 when they added guilds it seems like they've been trying to alienate the more casual player base with guilds. Back in the day people were criticizing Nullity gear for needing to raid for meta pieces and people were like "oh no it's only one piece of gear it's not a big deal" but now you NEED to grind raids or gamble to compete.

[@dardster_]

The barrier for entry for pvp is too much and they keep adding to it with new spellements or gear that you only get through packs or raids. We already have to max every wiz (if we want to pvp on them), farm/craft/gamble for optimal gear, farm jewels, and farm spellements. I don't see the point of locking BIS gear behind raids in a game where raids really don't work well with the fundamental gameplay. Just let people play pvp, they make it too difficult to get into pvp in a game where the player base is too small for this barrier for entry. I also agree with making pvp spells be a spellement change, but make it so we don't have to farm for the spellements to change it to the pvp version, otherwise it just adds to the barrier for entry problem, just have 2 different base versions that you can swap between. Problem solved. Great video overall, enjoyed hearing your opinions and ideas thoroughly

[@Firestarter_101]

Yes I agree 1000%! I remember Ratbeard specifically saying he wanted more people to peev yet they keep making changes like this that absolutely screw anyone who isn't a diehard 24/7 Wiz player out of it. Thank you for commenting! Also do you happen to be the dardster from Slade's server/community? If so hope to see you soon on his next stream 👀.

[@dardster_]

@@Firestarter_101 Yup that's me, wanted to check out your video when you mentioned it cause it's a cool topic ♥

[@Firestarter_101]

@@dardster_ W, thank you for checking it out!

[@Mujtabaa_M]

If you’d like my opinion, sure. The pvp inaccessibility started all the way back in like avalon/azteca with jade gear. meta would be to full jade gear, pop a death mastery amulet and spam weakness + shield with a healing/resist pet. As a crowns only player, not only was i restricted from ranked (members only) but i had no incentive to play it because of the jade gear. From what i hear after coming back is that it got much worse, to the point of roshambo needing to be made. Maybe I don’t understand, but giving players actual ways to counter blades shields and traps other than earthquake seems like very good game design to me. As for being mainly PvE, I very much enjoyed the novus fight for being different and utilizing these strategies, the problem is that it forces you to use predetermined decks. Having fights that aren’t Blade + Feint + big hit gives the game an incredibly fresh feeling when questing, AoE spam (because it’s so strong) has been the #1 problem for me and my friends playing this game. It makes 80% of the content trivial, I can quite literally set up a macro to play the majority of the game; this means the game has no strategy. After seeing them make spells that give depth to the game, pvp only, was the most counter intuitive decision making i’ve ever witnessed. So KI failed on both fronts while having interesting ideas, but their implementation has been less than stellar.

[@Firestarter_101]

Def agree that they can't implement things properly. They used to have it where if you did a gambit successfully it would unpolymorph you but they changed it so you had to kill which made the farm 10x longer for Aeon. Jading was a problem back then yes but it's still a problem even with Ro-Sham-Bo and even before Ro-Sham-Bo got introduced KI added res caps and nerfed things like Juju spam heavily. Neither system is working and KI isn't rlly listening tbh.

[@ratgutsnorthwind9154]

I hope it is noted however how much changes for pvp affect the pve players. The raids seem to be affected by pvp changes and so do simple card nerfs

[@Firestarter_101]

Exactly!

[@SimbasGlory]

I am mainly a pve player and never do pvp, but I really like roshambo. I think it has been terribly introduced and every time I see a new player I need to re-explain it. There needs to be a tutorial around karamelle or at the novus fight. That’s the bare minimum. There should be more fights after whenever they introduce roshambo that follow those rules. The issue is that’s hard to do when so many pve players are able to just blade aoe. That’s one of the reasons why I really like the wallaru solo fights, and think they should add more of those.

[@Firestarter_101]

To each their own! This is my first time I'm seeing a PvE player that really likes Roshambo but I'm happy knowing that someone does. Def agree that if they continue in this direction (which they will most likely will) they need to do some type of tutorial.

[@SlyKrystal]

Shoutouts go hardddd I subbed

[@Firestarter_101]

Thank you! 🙏

[@blehrg8638]

So I wanted to give my thoughts on this because I think I have a unique perspective compared to most of the people commenting on this due to my experiences. So some background: I have reached top 500 in the ranked modes splatoon 3, and among the top 500 in multiple formats in pokemon, as well as multiple higher rankings in games too small to really be worth mentioning that I play kinda causually, as well as experience playing a bunch of other competitive games that Im not quite top end at but relatively in the higher ranks. I love pvp in video games a lot, and it takes up a big part of my free time, and it originally started all the way back when I played wizard101 as a kid. Playing wiz pvp back when waterworks was the dungeon to farm is some of the most fond memories of my childhood, and while I wasnt, like, amazing at it at the time, it was fun and a couple of years later I would get to 2200+ rank(for those not knowledgeable about rank at the time, everyone started at 500 rank back then) in 3rd age pvp and be somewhere on higher end of the rankings(I dont remember exactly where, its been a very long time) and that was the first gaming achievement I'm still decently proud of to this day. Now I'm mentioning this background to express that I'm not only knowledgeable in how usually competitive communities interact with their more casual playerbase, but also that I'm fairly confident I'm knowledgeable about what it usually takes to get good at said games. There will always be somewhat of a divide between a game's competitive and casual communities, it exists in every game that has both that I have ever played. Each of the communities will tend to want something that will hurt the other community in some way. For an example of this, Im going to use splatoon 3's clash blaster and splatana stamper. Clash blaster is a kinda terrible weapon that is very easy to play and splatana stamper is a very difficult weapon that is also one of the best weapons in the game. It's not that uncommon to see casual players who play splatana stamper who do not have the skill to properly use it complain it needs a buff, while saying the clash blaster, something they can use properly without much practice, needs a nerf. This would absolutely suck for competitive players who know how good stamper actually is and how bad clash blaster actually is. But on the other hand, there's the opposite, competitive players might ask for a stamper nerf that makes it even HARDER To play and a clash blaster buff that would make it even more oppressive to the casual playerbase. Both of these situations suck for the other commmunity because each side generally has a hard time seeing it from the other's perspective: The competitive player has kinda lost sight of what its like to play at a lower level and the casual players have no idea what the game is like for a competitive player. This dynamic will probably always exist in every game, and will lead to toxicity from both ends, to different extents. This is NOT wiz's problem, even if it looks like it if this is the main community you're a part of. This dynamic exists in most games with pvp, even in games you probably don't think are as toxic, and will likely always exist, there's no good way to remove it completely without completely removing pvp(which sucks a lot imo). What Wiz's real issue is, is the ABSURD barrier to entry for pvp before you can even really properly practice the parts you need to and how that trickles over to pve since wiz makes them tied together. It would take me less time to pick up a brand new game and get to a very high rank in it than it would for me to get my level 100 wizard to max level and then get all the gear I need to even have competitive stats/spellements/etc to start playing max pvp. That is HILARIOUSLY absurd, pokemon currently has a cheating problem where people just hack in pokemon with the stats they need before they start playing competitively because of THAT game's barrier to entry and that barrier to entry is miniscule compared to wiz's barrier to entry. And while this is already bad(like, very very bad), it gets even worse because these pvp players need to play the pve extensively to get to the barrier of entry, which means they are forced to interact with people who do only PVE and will not have the same goals, drive, or strategies as the pvp players since the pve players are there for fun, the pvp players are there to get to the pvp as fast as possible so they can get to their version of fun. This leads to even more toxicity than normal since both sides of the community are actively getting in the way of the other's possible fun. If you really want a solution to this, the solution would come at making the barrier to entry significantly smaller if all you want to do is pvp at max level, which is generally going to be most pvpers. Maybe make it so you can pick your level and gear for pvp only or something and have the same system of spellements and gear for pve, I dont know, I just know the current system is probably doomed to fail.

[@Firestarter_101]

Yeah I agree with you, Barrier to Entry was one of the things I was focusing on in the vid and it is honestly absurd, even hardcore peev players agree with that and KI need to change something.

[@huntergrant2011]

I like the rashambo identities. But I don't think it was done properly

[@Mr2012DramaKing]

as a pve player, i think we need to go back to old school. pvp as a side activity only and all spells be fair game on both sides. like i want those pvp only spells for pve

[@Firestarter_101]

All spells both sides would be a bit too chaotic but for PvP they've def banned WAY too many cards for it to be anything like old school.

[@JasThunder]

Ayyy nice growth!

[@Firestarter_101]

Ty!

[@NaughtyNina1240]

You know how scion spells have 2 versions for normal usage and pvp-only? While not ideal - we could benefit from that for all the spells that got absolutely gutted because of the pvp community. Look at myth darkmoor spell, colossus used to be great, now it is worse than orthrus. Additionally on deck interface there should be an option to not display pvp spells or not display spells that are banned in pvp.

[@Firestarter_101]

Great ideas!

[@keromoki]

LETS GO ANOTHER BANGER FROM FIRESTARTER101

[@Firestarter_101]

KEROMOKI W

[@ethanluttrell]

Pvp players ruined the game when they complained about spell power on spells like Bugs snd Efriet, causing the devs to change all the spells and weaken them across the board, literally ZERO reason to do that, pvp is a small community relatively to the games players who just want to do the story

[@Firestarter_101]

Wouldn't blame this on peev players, it's the devs that didn't separate PvP and PvE changes who would be to blame in that situation.

[@MikePSU]

Feels like balance is way too catered to pvp, at least until the most recent patch

[@Firestarter_101]

Yeah I heard that from my friends in the peev community a few months back that Balance was absolutely BROKEN before they made the Echo changes.

[@ChrisH-gw8ww]

RAHHH FIRESTARTER TRUE TO HIS NAME!! THIS IS HEAT🔥🔥🔥

[@Firestarter_101]

Ty bestie

[@tomandadelinejefferson9005]

nice great explanation

[@Firestarter_101]

Thank you!

[@XL_Slade]

W can't wait to watch this!!!

[@Firestarter_101]

W Slade

[@XL_Slade]

@@Firestarter_101 very well said btw, getting back into pvp for me will be interesting coming up

[@Firestarter_101]

@@XL_Slade Thank you for checking it out 🙏. Yeah getting in to peev is really hard, there are plenty of other Content Creators that can help you with it though and I've heard Fire is strong this meta!

[@TigerLily408]

The pvp elitist attitude has existed since the game onset and pve players have resented them from the onset as well. I doubt it will change. Both playing options should be kept separate.

[@animaljamistlegomyago2361]

I just want 2008 pvp back 😞

[@HelperKaiGlenn]

That was terrible too. Peak pvp was 4th age with solar surge and no roshambo or spellements.

[@animaljamistlegomyago2361]

@@HelperKaiGlenn wanna start a 100 reply argument about why we think they are better or worss

[@HelperKaiGlenn]

@@animaljamistlegomyago2361 No because there was nothing better about pvp back then. Pvp was bland back then. There weren't many spells back then and also no mastery amulets. So there were very few strategies you could choose from. It took far less skill because You didn't really have to worry about which cards to pack. You didn't really have to trial and error your deck setup through pvp matches either unless You were new to pvp. But when I pvped back in 3rd and 4th age even as a Warlord there were times I changed my deck after a fight. That didn't really exist back then. So not only did pvp take less skill it also wasn't as diverse meaning You couldn't be creative and try out different strategies because there weren't that many cards. You also didn't have to grind for gear back then at least not in the way You do now or even since waterworks. So what I'm saying is pvp back then was easy and took no skill. It didn't challenge You to try out many different strategies to see which fits your playstyle best, it didn't make You have to change your deck through trial and error and You also didn't have to grind for anything. That doesn't sound better to me. I agree there's too much going on in current pvp and I can agree current pvp sucks but it's still better than pvp back in 2008-2010.

[@animaljamistlegomyago2361]

@@HelperKaiGlenn I totally get what your saying and I agree with it for the most part but I just loved how simple it was back then where basically anyone could get warlord

[@HelperKaiGlenn]

​@@animaljamistlegomyago2361If Anyone could get Warlord that defeats the purpose does it not?

[@JustFang]

The tags ☠

[@Firestarter_101]

💀

[@Firestarter_101]

Comment your thoughts below!

[@ZacuriahMiller-li2ew]

It isn't a divide . Its a 90% pve 10% pvp

[@Firestarter_101]

Seems like an interesting take, would you care to elaborate?

[@ZacuriahMiller-li2ew]

@@Firestarter_101 I said the pvp community is like 5% of the playerbsse bro

[@hugebot5747]

Just keep pvp and pve separate, like they slowly start doing this and then completely forget it’s a thing (like pvp and pve scion as well as some other spells, also with shad spells as well as some other spells where you have to go a specific spellement path to use it in pvp) that being said out of nowhere we get this atrocious ffa change that btw is locked from pvp unless you use spellements to some 3 dots and 6 rounds like bruh

[@Firestarter_101]

LITERALLY! When I came back to play Novus and FFA was in that state I actually wanted to uninstall.

[@NinjaMatt55]

W video

[@Firestarter_101]

W matt 🙏

[@nevernoknowno]

darkmoor 2.0 soon pls

[@Firestarter_101]

For real!

[@fortheglacier563]

Listen I don’t PvP so you won’t find me commenting about what changes need to be done lol. I’ll leave that to the experts

[@cbthescare]

excuseeee me here im just dropping a sub on this channel ^^

[@Firestarter_101]

Yoooo tysm! I just checked out your channel as well, keep up with the pirate content it's baller asf 🗣

[@cbthescare]

@@Firestarter_101 Thanks! Keep up the good work yourself!

[@IceGoldPvP]

:3

[@Firestarter_101]

[@ChadWarwick0]

The info is good but you're delivery is dry

[@Firestarter_101]

Good criticism! I'll take that into account for the future.

[@Barnaby71]

23rd!

[@Firestarter_101]

Still a W in my books

[@Gr2gqn]

The divide is an L

[@tacotruck5009]

The existance of pvp is meant to piss off pve players. The life spider pvp addition is proof.