WHICH FIRST FOUNDING CHAPTER MASTER COULD FALL?

Hey everyone Wolf Lord Rho here! Today we're asking which of the big four legendary Space Marine Chapter Master's could fall? Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines, Dante of the Blood Angels, Azrael of the Dark Angels, and Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves.
No real need for a Spoiler Warning today but just keep in mind I will be mentioning events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
Games Workshop does not endorse or support this video. All views and opinions expressed in this video belong to Wolf Lord Rho and in no way reflect the views or opinions of Games Workshop Ltd.
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All art used in this video belongs to the artists.
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[@pll3827]

Dante will be the last one alive and be horrified about it.

[@TenPtJackalope]

That’s tragic enough to probably happen

[@pierceprzybyla1275]

Seth won't let him die

[@jameshartwell3433]

I agree.

[@danielmouatt5570]

Not from a lack of trying on Dante’s part to be the first/save the others…

[@steveotten9473]

Poor little guy

[@itwasadare1]

Grimnar dying in a last stand for the Fang would be a great introduction to the "Wolf Time" and usher in the return of Russ

[@lonner3053]

Dante finally dies. Five minutes later he comes back to life, finding out that he’s a Perpetual. ** .. and all gods of chaos roll on the floor laughing… **

[@everythingsalright1121]

Or a living saint

[@tipenemilner4431]

Damn he wouldn hate that, your service will never end dante

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Dante's going into a dreadnaught because hes not allowed to die. Also its extremely funny.

[@deanastephensosborne5604]

Dante then would be like: emperor why do you hate me

[@alexandercarter1228]

If Dante became a dreadnought, it would be the first one with a jump pack

[@zedhiro6131]

Dante won't die because he wants to die.

[@scatterthewinds3126]

The ones with returned primarchs are in greater danger by far.

[@HierkönnteihreWerbungstehen_92]

Grimnar going to save ragnar in a new fight against ghaz would be cool. sacrificing himself for the future of the chapter. but maybe a bit too romantic :D

[@j.celgoog3275]

Between 2 hand fights( after drinking a whole keg of beer), Space Wolves can be very romantic.

[@Seraphus87]

Hoping for Dante to get some rest, but this is 40k, so they'd probably just put him in a Dreadnought.

[@seanyoung9014]

Dante gonna be in a nesting doll of dreadnoughts.

[@daltonbalusek]

Kayvaan of the Raven Guard would welcome Corax's return. He has said he would step down if someone better than him comes along. He wants to return to being a battle captain. "Lord Corax welcome back, I can become a simple captain again!"

[@Livid72Des]

The inquisition would F it up though. Because of Corax’s warp make over.

[@Artecius92]

If anyone was going to die it will be Grimnar doing something stupid so that Ragnar can become the new Great Wolf or take over when Leman Russ comes back.

[@Guywiththetypewriter]

It has to be dante. His entire characterarc has revovled arouns his death. But it has to be incredibly meaningful. He already lives through the devastation of baal, it needs to be kabanda, emperor, or Sanguinius related...

[@louisnall3102]

Personally, I like the blueballing of Dante's death. It is just one of the funnier ironies of 40k.

[@BroadHobbyProjects]

He's seen his death whilst in front of the golden throne. Most likely against Abaddon.

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

Nah, have Abaddon come push his shit in, then have an apothecary come bring him back JUST enough to end up in a dreadnought...because it's hysterical

[@danielmouatt5570]

From reading Dante and Devastation of Baal, Dante has died twice now even if he then proceeded to walk it off when either the Sanguinor (I’m not convinced it was them from the description in the book) or Sanguinius duct taping his soul back into is body and giving him a shove to get him moving…

[@chrisdempyful]

Has to be grimnar as he is yet to get an updated model all others have been updated and Calgar is more working behind the scenes now.

[@LysimedVenteel]

He’s supposed to be getting a model in summer 2025. Your point?

[@Adrian_Zamora98]

You don't think they will get him a new model when Russ comes back most likely in the next edition? Honestly, get rid of Calgar

[@rankcolour8780]

Logan won't go for two reasons. Firstly, because Ragnar would become Great Wolf which would cost GW a fortune in making 2 new sets of shoulder pads. Not only would they need to create a new company to replace Ragnars but everyone using Ragnars shoulder pads would need to replace them, which is like 95% of the SW player base. Secondly, is that despite Logan having no official on-foot model for at least 7 years he has rules instead of going to legends. When they keep rules without a model it gets refreshed.

[@chrisdempyful]

@@rankcolour8780 just to finalise my reason guys all your points a valid here but think your looking into it far too much. His quistion was what first founding master could fall. You have to look at it from a lore and business perspective so yes Ragnar is rediculous and I’m in agreement with him beating Calgar before rubicon and after his injury during his fight with abbadon but I’m not sure how it would go with prime Calgar probably would end in both killing each other in my head or Logan winning but badly wounded. If Logan went through the rubicon though then him and that’s where I go with my business perspective he is yet to receive a model so would also make sense for him to go plus it would be a big shift in the storyline

[@rankcolour8780]

@@chrisdempyful even less reason for him to fall from a lore angle seeing as how he was just personally knelt before by a Primarch and given the job equivalent of Dante but with Orks. GW storyboard models and plot years in advance, if Ragnar was taking over the would bring to the fore not push him back.

[@mementomori771]

Logan his loss would be a tragedy if he didnt get to meet Russ

[@Cornerboy73]

I honestly don't know. I can't see any of them being taken off the board right now. Calgar is a bit of a superstar as a lot of new fans have been introduced to him during his bada$$ entrance and save in Space Marine 2. Dante is too important right now to remove, especially since Lion made it clear that he didn't want to rule. Azrael is just too interesting form a narrative standpoint with all the intrigue an author can tap into with him, plus, his miniature remains of of the most popular HQs on the tabletop, (even after his points increase). Logan is loved by his fans and is getting a new model next year I think so why kill him off now? It's a tough call - maybe Calgar will fall and Titus will take his place in the new Amazon animated feature ! ; )

[@keeptheflapshut8594]

Well I put money on Space wolves, idk just do. Hear me out though if Dante died in a way that somehow brought back a primarch or unlocked the secrets of the missing primarchs that would be an epic change

[@harley3282]

It will be the one without a Primaris model.

[@kinghoenn3478]

Ya Dante is gonna outlive almost everybody. He has just the worst luck.

[@rossgadsby9663]

I could see Grimnar dying to give Ragnar the Chapter, but not until a while has passed in the setting

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

If I think of perfect Logan Grimnar death I feel like it would be Grimnar figting against Kharn. Both being strongest space marine warriors on both sides who both wield axes and have ties to Khorne. It would be a mutual kill I think. It would definitely be a great fight.

[@codybates2419]

Grimnar and Calgar both have possible replacements already lined up with Ragnar and Sicarius. BA don’t really have a solid named and lore backed successor to Dante. Dark Angels have Belial I guess but I think o my way Dante falls is if it brings back our Glorious Hawk Boi.

[@Dark_Tesla]

I call Dante. He’s too badass to let live.

[@captainrex1718]

The moment he’s about to die he gets put into a dreadnought

[@servalkorion686]

The plot armor won’t let him die

[@stingblademaster]

I’d argue otherwise. Living is his curse as much as his duty.

[@Dark_Tesla]

@@servalkorion686 he can’t keep getting away with this! 😭

[@alastor8091]

Dante crying tears of joy in thr background.

[@deanastephensosborne5604]

Emperor: rise son of sanguinious

[@danielmouatt5570]

Dante: Oh for [extended sting of expletives] sake… again?!? Really?!?

[@deanastephensosborne5604]

@@danielmouatt5570 titus: tell me about it

[@sarnicholas4053]

Personally, I think that Grimnar would be the best choice. I agree of course that it would open the way for some interesting stories with Blackmane, but even more than that I think it's thematically appropriate for the vibe that the wolves give off. It's hard to put into words but somehow a heroic last stand or blaze of glory seems so on brand for the wolves. If well-written (and I've read enough black library to know that there are very good writers working for games workshop) I could Grimnar's death could - far from distracting from it - actually ENHANCE his character.

[@soapthemidget1713]

I mean Dante has literally been told by Sanguinus he is not allowed to die. I feel that Logan finally falling in battle as Russ comes back feels so poetic. I feel that would really be the wolf time for the sons of Russ.

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

Azrael easily. He's more of a general and a strategist, where as Dante, Logan and Calgar are all strategists but are also beasts in combat and CC.

[@TenPtJackalope]

Not a DA fanboy by any stretch, but the man did manage a draw with Kharn

[@ShadowGhost0117]

He’s definitely more of a commander compared to the others, but he’s definitely no slouch in a fight.

[@Motard.Actual]

Azrael is also a Badass in combat. The dude took on Kharn.

[@professor.moriarty9803]

Lion has returned, DAs don't need him to fill that role anymore, he's perfectly fine where he is and what he does right now if not even better.

[@craynak]

He’s literally battle Kharn to a draw. Dudes a bad ass.

[@IndieGoFigure]

Whichever's model sells the least

[@alexandercarter1228]

I could see Calgar attempting to match up to his father that could lead to his demise. And I think if a chaos god was to be involved it would in fact be tzeentch. I think Calgar would easily match the others but would be tricked by tzeentch. It would be a hard fall, and might be a hell of a fall at that. But if Guillemen learns from his father and takes time to ‘father’ Calgar that that could save his life in that instant. Not letting his fathers successes drive him to feats he cannot match

[@DAG4219]

My bet would be Dante. Very old and Angron beat the crap out of him. I think that Dante should stay on his ship or at Baal for safety.

[@sketchpledge2653]

bro its Angron, what non-primarch tier character is not getting the shit beat out of them by Angron?

[@DAG4219]

True but I think in the end it may play a part. ​@@sketchpledge2653

[@andrewbaer2820]

Sanguinius told him he has to live, he has a role to play still

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

​@sketchpledge2653 Which primarch do you honestly think has a chance 1v1 against angry Ron? For pure melee fuckery, it's always been Angry Ron, he is to melee what Magnus is to psychic

[@andrewbaer2820]

@@johnhildenbrand2642 the lion did beat demon primarch Angron in melee combat. Sanguinius also beat him and made him feel fear and panic as a demon primarch at the siege

[@johnevans5706]

I've said Grimnar needs to be the one to go for ages, it'll give the story forward with Ragnar finally taking up the mantel of Great wolf, and could give the Wolves a new dreadnaught option to replace Bjorn seems they can't really make him cross the rubicon. And you could imagine him giving his life for the people of the imperium, maybe fighting the demon that's in his axe?

[@Dragoth1337]

Fall to chaos I would have said calgar based on the tid bits of info had a very Luther feel to it. Fall in battle Azreal has come the closest several times and would seem to fall to a fallen trap because of his own huberous Wolftine in my opinion was a bad representation of the wolfs

[@scatterthewinds3126]

I think this is fair.

[@mitchellbrough1615]

I think that's fair. I'd be tempted by Dante because his story arc is his death but I don't think there's enough happening right now with the sanguinor/red angel story lines because I think they're all tied in some way

[@XenosZombie]

So you're saying Grimnar needs to gain back plot armor . . .

[@chrisfrombeyond4240]

I'm putting my money on Calgar, and it'll be in SM3. Cato Sicarius will ascend to chapter master by Guillimans appointment. Titus will become Gmans' new equerry.

[@David-li4uw]

Azrael is a more interesting character than any of them. Hopefully poor Dante gets some rest.

[@roaringlaughter3812]

If they got the ballzz they kill of marneus calgar. Through a trilogy, a competitive season, and a video game. Once and for all making it clear no one has plot armor.

[@Britishgridironfilms]

Good news Rho.......There is a new Grimnar on the way.......without Santa sleigh.

[@KhorgosKhul]

Calgar as the NEW Warmaster Of Chaos.

[@orionspero560]

I think one that's prime mark has returned is the most likely and most fun. Gelamen, being the first primer to return, I would suppose calgary would be the obvious choice for that. My instinct is, it will be a fight to mutual death between him and abidon. After the straight rift, saga Abad story is definitely played out. And you don't really need feed cowgirl and you need a big name to go down at the same time, to take abidon out of the timeline. This also means that as real would work and dante is the ultimate example of a bad idea

[@Jesse333]

Calgar I think, because the role he played in the setting as the ultramarines poster boy is now filled by roboute. Guilaman is just a better character in general Especially post heresy, he’s a lot deeper

[@alistairbolden6340]

After thinking about it a little, I think it would be most on theme for the Space Wolves grandmaster to die, all great viking sagas end in death after all. Really the only reason the great wolf has not already died a few times over is how little screen time the space wolves really get. I don't really think the Space Wolves are a top 4 chapter I would give that to the Imperial Fists or Black Templars, both are closer to the core of the story and both get more screen time.

[@ArcaneMaiden]

Def. Not Calgar. _Bastard has Ultra Instinct._ 🧐

[@eviljagtech]

As much as Dante wants to die but I think Calgar has a good replacement in Cato who could use some more character building.

[@YourStylesGeneric321]

All I know is Azrael is slept on hardcore

[@tipenemilner4431]

Imagine if they all became dreadnoughts

[@fluffmma9076]

Guy with a Khornate axe....

[@cheeseburger12]

Calgar. 1)we have the G-man back 2)his previous Mary Sueness. Let him go out in a bad ass blaze of glory 3)i hate the Calgar isn't Calgar but took Calgar's name plot. Get rid of that 4)there is no 4 5)make Titus the new Chapter Master! (Maybe not, but i think it could be cool)

[@vontheunknown7982]

Hmm, I would have to go with Marneus calgar.

[@mio87]

Same

[@omega1735]

Ok long comment incoming Dante I think will be the last man standing between abandon and victory but I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Azreal seems unlikely as it stands currently there’s a lot you can do with his character that doesn’t involve killing him off. Calgar if he was going to die I feel like it would have been against abbadon on vigilus but he didn’t so I don’t see it happening. Grimnar I think is most likely to fall possibly in a desperate fight against the Tyranids to stop them from reaching Terra or finnris of all of them he feels the most likely.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Bro that's the shortest long comment I ever read LOL

[@Chris-wn3vr]

Fitting his name is Dante. He cannot die.

[@wadegeorge1591]

Calgar because Robute has replaced him. Grimnar because Ragnar can replace him.

[@milcearry]

Prediction: If GW starts writing more about one of 1st Captains from one of these chapters, some grand feat. Then I'll say GW is about to kill the chapter master.

[@MrMysticphantom]

Azrael is probably gonna be the one whos gonna go down first. He is the most replaceable followed by Calgar or Ragnar then Dante (even with desitiny)

[@shakyrob6512]

Azrael because the Lion is just that kinda guy if needs be and it wouldn't be heroic.

[@Ascawien]

Grimnar. Ragnar Blackmane has been the face of the SW's for decades. Most casual fans think the SW's chapter badge is Ragnar's one. Personally, I'd love to see an end to Calgar but Grimnar going and being replaced by Blackmane (which it's felt as though the lore was leaning towards for decades already) probably makes the least amount of work for the writers.

[@seanreusing4409]

😮so when you said "fall" u meant their death. I thought u were gonna get heretical there Son of the Rus. To dare suggest even your Wolf King could ever fall to Ruinous Powers. Glad u cleared it up within the first few seconds.

[@KingMonkeyEnma]

As a dark angel fan I think it might be azrael. I think it’s a better outcome then no loner hunting every fallen

[@KhorgosKhul]

He just got a newish model, He's safe.

[@mvdplas8145]

But which one of these chaptermasters would be the first to fall to chaos?

[@chaptermasterd9362]

If Dante dies i will cry, but he deserves his rest

[@danmann8315]

17:52 ye boii

[@DukeDanseMacambre]

Wolves Grimnar dying and russ returning seems most likely.

[@gregmiller8284]

Dante won't die. He is doomed to carry on, though he wishes for death and an end to his duties. Calgar won't die. He's like Guilliman junior. Larger than life, the best among equals. Grimnar might die. He's basically Odin. More likely, Ragnar would die, saving Fenris from utter destruction, with Grimnar mourning his loss. Maybe Grimnar and Ragnar both die. However, the end times for Fenris will bring Russ back. The Space Wolves whether rebuild. Azrael may die.

[@blairtaggart5243]

Either grimnar or galgar

[@bertholdbach4959]

None of them will die, gW still sells those models.

[@ramirmaldonado8613]

im between Grimnar or Dante… probably Dante would be a Dreadnought, 😆

[@wizzy_tekken]

Personally I would say it would be azriel

[@riktor3005]

I don't know, I think Azrael dying is subtly more important than we think. Azrael's replacement (Captain of the first company) is literally named after the devil, who is a betrayer. With Lionel Johnson back, and the tension generated by his accepting of the fallen back into the fold, makes the situation ripe for a betrayal of the returned primarch - which is a theme consistent with Guillimon's return given the high lords of terra situation.

[@StryifeTheVillain]

I know who'd love to fall

[@jbcollins5781]

disagree 100%. We're not killing the guy that punked a gray knight. Besides with the return of the primarchs, the chapter masters Calgar and Azrael are redundant. it would be one of them in my opinion.

[@BofaDee33]

Would be azrael he couldn't even beat karne in a 1v1

[@malb.4107]

Which Mary Sue's Gotta Lose?

[@c.m.4313]

Grimnar’s wolf chariot is grimderp and should be retired

[@thedracoknight413]

Before watching the video, NOT Dante.

[@Fallout2008]

Logan Grimnar should fall. You can't use a chaos weapon and have no effects, cus reasons.

[@brotherhoodz97]

Logan Grimnar is the greatest living creature in 40k.

[@themasterninja110]

Being a space wolf makes that stement false

[@brotherhoodz97]

@@themasterninja110 you disagree with my personal statement about a hobby universe, therefore you are wrong and I hate you on a personal level. be content in reveling in your ineptitude.

[@Ayatron34]

None of the big 4. They print money for GW.

[@lorcankelly8871]

Azrael or Grimnar. Azrael is irrelevant and has always been the weakest of the 4. Grimnar is possible as they have ragnar as a replacement but Azrael is most likely

[@Lukeclout]

I think its Azrael. Ultramarines are the default codex chapter as such its easier form them to field a Chapter Master + Primarch from a gaming points perspective. The rest are specialist chapters; whereby the return of Primarch will make some chapters too OP. Azrael and the Lion cannot co exist well. Also the Lion is not going to be to plzed with some of the actions of his chapter

[@Swarzyc]

If I would choose it would be Logan on Azrael, it would be add a good points to the plot. The best would be to add something fleshd out for the White Scars and Iron Hands

[@Taco0718]

Personally I feel GW missed a golden opportunity to kill off Calgar back in the Gathering Storm storyline. I have no ill will towards Calgar as a character, but with Guillimans return, i feel like he is redundant. I think it would have been a major shake-up to the setting, and thus making Guilliman's arrival all that more important. Plus it would have advanced the storylines of other Ultramarine characters like Cato, Uriel, Tiguris and others. Finally Calgar in many ways, represents old 40k. His death would symbolic of the great changes to hobby brought about by 8th (or was it 7th?) edition.

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

Calgar is still very much relevant, Robot Girlyman is the Imperial Regent, not the Ultramarines grand poobah anymore, the only really redundant one in that sense right now is Azrael with the return of the Lion.

[@danielgeorges3048]

I’m a lifelong Space Wolf fan. Grimnar has a great legacy but he can go. I think he should be placed in a redemptor dreadnought which would give an excuse to have the primaries size Björn we all want but know we can’t get.

[@thedude5449]

All wrong. It will be Lord hyundai tiburon the red wake of the space sharks that will fall.

[@CMAzeriah]

Calgar and Grimnar no doubt. One has doubts and the other constantly exposes himself to chaos influence.

[@thedude5449]

*is too strong for weak ass chaos influence.

[@CMAzeriah]

@@thedude5449 Tell that to half the Primarchs.

[@thedude5449]

@@CMAzeriah who were all absolutely weak. Minus Peter turbo

[@N0TYALC]

Little piece of criticism here: the title is a little misleading. I spent the entire intro assuming that you were asking which one was more likely to fall to chaos. I know that the D word is algorithm poison now that KZbin has stricter censorship than a kindergarten classroom, but maybe "be defeated" would make your meaning more clear.

[@thedude5449]

Not really.

[@louisnall3102]

If we are saying falling to Chaos, my bet is on Logan Grimnar, with Azrael as a second. Logan Grimnar wields a Khornate Battle Axe. Using chaos artefacts is a quick way to fall to chaos. Azrael is second due to the return of Lionel Johnson, specifically his attitude towards the Fallen. Azrael and the wider Dark Angels have spent 10,000 years hunting the fallen and for the Lion to come back and say: "Hey guys, the efforts of this chapter for the past 10,000 years are unimportant. The risks you took in doing some pretty heretical stuff, and leaving your allies for dead to find the fallen is not only in vain, but also against everything I stand for now." To add salt to the wound, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lion starts keeping the Risen close to him, as they are the only people from his time he can talk to until he meets Guilliman.

[@thedude5449]

Logan is too strong to fall to chaos. Never going to happen

[@Hellfox777]

Grimnar is already falling. Isn't he the one secretly being slowly possessed.

[@thedude5449]

Absolutely not.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Agreed. Dump the wolf. Those are the only gits I haven't heard about, I reckon they won't be missed all that much. Calgar, Dante and Azrael are legends whose story could evolve further. Russ' boys? Wolf wolf wolf and they they die or something. idk. Very wolf behaviour indeed I would say.

[@thedude5449]

Are you jewish?

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

I’m lowkey tired of the clickbait hypos Dante ?? Fall ? Unsub, do not reccc channel

[@sonic064]

Dante: I will finally die, YES!! Sanguinius: not today *revive him again* Dante: FUUUUUUU!!!

[@robertflynn4215]

Kayvaan shrike lord of shadows and chapter master of the raven guard, will never fall because of his humbleness victorus Aut Mortis brothers 🤍🖤.

[@roaringlaughter3812]

If they got the ballzz they kill of marneus calgar. Through a trilogy, a competitive season, and a video game. Once and for all making it clear no one has plot armor.