MORTARION AND THE SIGILLITE! THEIR HISTORY UPON TERRA

Hey everyone Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we discuss Mortarions relationship with Malcador the Sigillite!
Spoiler Warning to begin the events we are discussing today are from the Horus Heresy short story "deamonology" by chris wraight. As always i really recommend you read the story for yourself first, as thats the best way to enjoy the lore, for yourself. Not only that we help to support the great games workshop and black library because without them we dont have this amazing lore to talk about. Link: www.blacklibra...
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Music belongs to Wolf Lord Rho.

[@michaelhowell2326]

The Emperor, Malcador and Primarchs are an immediate like and watch. It's just the way it is.

[@foxie2cool]

Bro Legit!

[@ericcloud1023]

As a loyal citizen must. The Arbites have their eyes on you citizen......

[@Scythe592]

Gotta show the love

[@richardnelson354]

For the Emperor!

[@garysuarez9614]

"Some things will never change..." Don Henley

[@kre8or465]

Its very possibly that Mortarian simply didn't realise just HOW important the Webway was. After all, Malcador may have told him of the webway project, but I bet he conveniently left out the bit about chaos, and Mortarian may have subtly picked up that malcador still wasn't telling him everything.

[@shadearca]

Of course, he left Chaos out of it because that was the Emperor's command.

[@henryviiifake8244]

@@shadearca Malcador wouldn't have told Mortarion about that even if the Emperor didn't command it. 😒

[@phage5342]

Imagine your "uncle" that you barely know who is a psycher that you distrust takes you to a room and shows you a picture of Nikaea and tells you "your destiny awaits there." Your thoughts would probably along the lines of: "what is this old man smoking?" "An odd way of avoiding me dad, thanks."

[@Galaxybreaker97]

Thats great

[@davidthomas2870]

It wouldn't violate cannon if Angron and Kurz were found and brought back WHILE Mortarion was on terra being treated. It could help explain why Angrons reunion was the way it was; the emporer had to rush home to tend to 2 wounded sons now

[@fumarc4501]

How hard that must have been to find each of these three, in the states they were in. Broken, deranged, and poisoned beyond the physical. Angron was supposed to be Empathy, Konrad was to be Justice, and Morty was to be… *][Redacted][*

[@crack61616]

@@fumarc4501 ...Purity

[@MutsuKazuma]

how hard it must be to differentiate between the word canon and a cannon

[@OljeiKhan]

​@@MutsuKazumanone of this would violate a cannon either so everything checks out. Just as planned.

[@fumarc4501]

They call him Morty the Moocher He was a lowdown hoochie coocher He was the roughest, toughest frail But Morty had a heart as big as a whale

[@speedgnom]

He fooled around with a bloke named Nurgle He liked him even dough he made his throat gurgle. He took him by to the Immaterium and made him into the bane of the Imperium.

[@plasticbudgie]

He had a dream of an overlord bleedin'. But the Big E took away the thing that he was needin'. He was gifted a home built from gold and steel, power armour an scimitar with the emperors seal.

[@tincano-beans2114]

I like how the emperor can't even be bothered to be with his son when he grounds them at home lol.

[@Badchi]

He’s like: “Why am I supposed to talk to this lab rat again? Ah, he’s my son. right-right-right-right...”

[@henryviiifake8244]

Yeah... "son" 👀

[@sardonicspartan9343]

He wasn't grounded. He was in therapy.

[@Ashtor1337]

It's almost like he had the whole of humanity to worry about.

[@yeoldchief7711]

It was a mistake to keep Mortarian on Terra. After his imprisonment, I doubt it would have sat at all well. Mortarian tried to resist Nurgle as much more than he resisted the Emperor, and is known to abhor having any master... This is probably why he got on with the Khan, a thirst for freedom.

[@MoonlitSpires]

@Ye old chief when do we see him getting along with the Khan?

[@yeoldchief7711]

@@MoonlitSpires in the White Scars novels it's stated that they were friends with the Death Guard.

[@MoonlitSpires]

@@yeoldchief7711 thank you, another adition to my to read list! Its kind of hard to find info on Mortarion's interactions with others outside pf reading the books...

[@fedupN]

@@yeoldchief7711 You sure? I remember reading it that when Mortarion tried talking to the Khan, Jaghatai laughed at him since it was only then, when Mortarion realized he'd sided with a bunch of wytchheads, was he trying to reach out to Khan since they are were both "outsiders." We also see in those novels, Mortarion almost coming to blows with the Khan just after a friendly chat around Horus' coronation as Warmaster and Mortarion disliking the Khan because the Khan helped pioneer the Libarian project. I dont think they were friends. The Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves were friends with both, but the Scars and Death Guard were not amigos.

[@Pallyrulez]

@@yeoldchief7711 From my reading of White Scars, my feeling is that Mortarian doesn't really like the Khan (or vic versa), but they certainly share a sort of "kindred spirit" type of bond, both are generally quite introverted and perhaps misunderstood by everyone. But that's where their similarities end. Morty DID think he could have swayed Khan to join with Horus, so he MIGHT had SOME positive feelings towards the Khan. But this was definitely not reciprocated.

[@bliblivion]

12:57 i desagree, some primarchs are more resilient to the warp than others, Mortarion is one of them ( he was not corrupted by chaos, he choose coruption to save his legion)

[@MrFallenone]

Just like Magnus. Arguably Horus also refused to surrender himself fully. Perturabo is still uncorrupted.

[@youthere7327]

@@MrFallenone horus fully turned himself over how i read it

[@seasons1745]

@@youthere7327 ehh he didn’t necessarily “turn” himself over and become mutated by the warp but he did get blessed by all the gods

[@fumarc4501]

All of the Primarchs are more resilient against chaos than all mortals, but it’s not perfect.

[@Ashtor1337]

Save his legion. Ha! He damned his legion when he declined the help of the Emperor on his home world.

[@yetipotato8567]

I think Mortarion and his legion were supposed to be just another siege legion/mainstream legion to defend the imperium together with army etc. But it went wrong when Mortarion got too fucked up by Barbados. Mortarion saw the strife of humans on his planet and joined them to defend them, but planet and necromancers were so toxic he lost all compassion for weak humans. Then when even he failed made him think he is weak too. Thus we have a toxic and sceptical Morty with no hope.

[@MutsuKazuma]

barbados is a pacific island with warm weather and nice beaches

[@gtr5973]

@@MutsuKazuma Wrong. Barbados is not in the Pacific, it’s in the Caribbean.

[@MutsuKazuma]

@@gtr5973 you must be fun at parties

[@gtr5973]

@@MutsuKazuma oh really Mr Party Animal? That’s rich given you’re the one with the original pedantic correction (which was itself erroneous). I suggest you brush up on your hypocrisy as well as your geography.

[@joewedg3703]

Mortys an island boy

[@Ventruethful]

10:22 "conversation" ? That's an interesting way to spell "unspeakeable violence with genocidal levels of collateral damage" Wolf Lord

[@ericcloud1023]

Must've been a typo. It happens, casual conversation or genocide it's pretty much spelled the same either way

[@Ventruethful]

@@ericcloud1023 aaah yes, the classic genocide/conversation switcharoo. We all experienced that awkward slip of the tongue during a genocide, am I right?

[@ericcloud1023]

@@Ventruethful just last week I went to talk with my neighbor about getting his mail and whoops I accidentally eradicated his entire race, it happens

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

Oh dear

[@dave-ish8098]

As this series presses on, I find myself disliking Mortarion more and more. Granted a lot of the primarchs have similar character flaws but this guy is just a supreme emo about all this.

[@josephskiles]

Not sure whose worse, him or father Curze

[@dave-ish8098]

@@josephskiles oh my God, dual emo boys LUL

[@josephskiles]

@@dave-ish8098 being a teen in mid/late 90's though they will always hold a special place in my heart

[@non-applicable3548]

I like that Curze has vicious savagery, and WE HAVE COME FOR *YOU* aspect of his legion The Sons of Antaeus and the Knights Errant are the only inter3sting parts of Morty and his legion imo

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Mortarion was always distrustful, spiteful and introverted. He genuinely wanted to do the right thing for Mankind and see himself as a Champion of the common man. Perturabo had his dreams grounded to dust, Morty was to anti social to have big dream. Only Horus was close to the Lord of Death. He loved only Horus.

[@Geyser39]

I find Mortarion's insecurity compelling, personally, because I suffer from the same kinds of insecurity. When you're filled with as much self-loathing and self-doubt as Mortarion is, it's easy to dismiss other people's trust and value of you as lies and assume that they're manipulating you. I think that was what was going on when Mortarion continued to complain about not being valued--he only believed what Malcador was saying while he was in that room, and within a few hours, he was looking back on that conversation and telling himself that Malcador must have been lying and trying to placate him (after all, he had just been trying to kill Malcador, surely anyone would lie in *that* situation...). Remember that he grew up with no positive reinforcement of any kind, just lies and manipulation and being told over and over again that he was worthless, no matter what he did.

[@mlpsh6995]

At last, someone who gets it. I feel the same way. I hate how many people write off Mortarion and just label him as an 'emo' or something. There's layers to him. He went through so much abuse and torture at the hands of his adoptive father.

[@Geyser39]

@@mlpsh6995 About ninety percent of Mortarion's bad traits are traceable directly back to either bad habits he learned from Necare, coping mechanisms he developed for living with an abusive father that are *not* helpful in the "real world," and just straight-up trauma. I'm not saying that Mortarion had it worse than Angron, I'm just saying that at least Angron had someone who loved him, and people who cared about him. The first time Mortartion met actual human beings they wanted to murder him. Not a great start.

[@dukedevlan5457]

That's why he is one of my favorite primarchs relatable

[@joevines3428]

It really makes you wonder what the 2nd and 11th primarchs did to get erased from history.

[@CountBoris45]

Xenolovers Died during the Rangda xenocides Building AI Rampant mutation Lost in the warp Feel free to add to the list lol

[@henryviiifake8244]

Probably asked too many questions lol.

[@Sorrowdusk]

@King Arthur BUT I love Yoohoo! Cookies n Cream or Peanutbutter Chocolate are my favorite flavors. THIS tells me The Emperor was wrong for killing them. Horus was right! Their statues should have never been removed

[@jamesgibson8088]

@@CountBoris45 Landed on orc planets, now well known by different names

[@zayffon1325]

Idk why people are confused about this one. Malcador says it himself in “Malcador”. The primarchs and their relationships with the emperor were manipulated so half would betray and half would remain loyal so that the primarchs would make like the thunder warriors and kill each other. The emperor envisioned an imperium ruled by the human, not the post-human. Those primarchs that could not be manipulated were erased. The 2nd and 11th primarchs were most likely just too independent or too biased to begin with, making them unaccountable variables.

[@foxie2cool]

I always love these breakdowns when there's the primarch, the emperor/ Malcador involved. Just so much packed into their relationship, Rho speaks 🔥🔥🔥, when everything it stripped away- it always comes down to a father's love and his children trying to be loved.

[@Ttrouble]

Lanterns light is another good and interesting short story about Morty, I really hope you cover that one day. I'm also really hoping you talk about the ending of The Buried Dagger.

[@matthewtoloczko6954]

So that's why he did the shake down to Magnus that day. He knew his brother's ultimate fate.

[@jihost2589]

All of them were damaged by the scattering because even in the "positive" cases, they were influenced by their adoptive cultures; whereas if they had stayed on Terra as intended then they wouldve become the honed weapons that the Emperor intended.

[@mlpsh6995]

At this point Mortarion perhaps doesn't know about Curze and Angron and thus can't have known how bad it was them.

[@Lorendrawn]

Never forget what GW did to TTS. I will never forgive them.

[@BillofTheCity]

If you all like Primarchs, go read Blood of the Emperor, An Anthology. Good reads. It's he only thing that I've read that explains Horus before he was Horus. There are other Primarchs too, six stories in all.

[@josephskiles]

Gotta agree about the Horus heresy short stories they are excellent. Favorite by far are the ones by ADB, that guy just writes a compelling story

[@odst123451]

I heard his writing can be pretty bias toward chaos. I’m not sure how true that is.

[@josephskiles]

@@odst123451 I don't know about biased, in his night Lords trilogy they spend as much time running away ( or making a tactical withdraw if you will) as they do fighting to get get the advantage for a fight and often they take a beating just as bad as the other side

[@delperalfanjul]

So, he could have told Horus what the Emperor went to work on when he abandoned the Great Crusade and chose not to? I don't think I like this particular retcon. Also, Angron and Curze both had it worse than Mortarion, in my opinion. Maybe Nostramo wasn't as perilous a planet for a Primarch as Barbarus was but Curze's visions certainly made it far worse of an experience.

[@jamesespinosa690]

I think maybe Mortarian deserves to be in the same tier as Konrad and Angron. His early childhood should have been pretty goddam horrific. If written by someone with imagination.

[@delperalfanjul]

@@jamesespinosa690 Agreed, then again we should include Lion's childhood aswell. All by yourself as an infant, lost in the forest, sorrounded, hunted and haunted by horrific chaos beasts.

[@steffanyschwartz7801]

@@delperalfanjul maybe Lorgar for getting the catholic school boy treatment?

[@Deamon93IT]

Sounds strange for Malcador to tell Mortarion about the Webway Project. I mean it is appropriate showing the future Mortarion would have liked but such a trust has been placed solely on him. This gives all the more reasons for either Malcador or Big E to tell Magnus about it or even involve him. That would have made things so much different

[@shadearca]

The problem the Emperor had and by extension Malcador is that they never revealed anything they did not have to.

[@max1mumchr1s]

When you realize that the Primarchs who betrayed the Emperor, the ones that Chaos corrupted, were the very Primarchs that the Emperor Valued the most. Horus, the favored son, Perturabo, the Lord of Iron, Mortarion, the one who The Emperor wanted to heal the most, Magnus, the one who the Emperor destined to take the Golden Throne. It truly is painful when you think about it

[@deleonjrd]

Or they were the ones the emperor knew were the most emotionally vulnerable/damaged and needed the most attention?

[@guilliman1990]

Not really no. Horus hardly worthy of warmaster truthfully multiple others are better equipped to deal with it. As for the other from day 1 they had failings in their armour. Non of them stood a chance.

[@jedorrock7528]

I mean it doesnt seem like he valued curze, angron or lorgar to much tho

[@max1mumchr1s]

@@jedorrock7528 Anggron was supposed to be caring son, similar to Guilliman. Lorgar was supposed to lead the strongest of the legions, bringing the Imperial Truth, not the God-Emperor. Curze, well that one can't be helped. Anggron and Lorgar had purposes beyond what they became. Their worlds or residence changed who they were supposed to be. The Emperor hoped they would still be able to fulfill that, but of course, that never came to pass

[@henryviiifake8244]

Cool. Except the Emperor just _does_ things - well, has Malcador do things - and rarely states what the intention of it is. Did Mortarion ever get to know the reason the Emperor kept him behind? Did he know that where Malcador took him was off-limits to all Primarchs? For all Mortarion's problems all he sees is that he's being detained, and all Malcador has to say is "trust us". He didn't have to deflect from Mortation's questions about Webway gates and look sus, he could have said it's something for one of the Emperor's projects and he can't comment further.

[@ambushbob5383]

I think it would have made a bigger impact on mortarion if it were the emperor that showed him instead of malkador a man he clearly shows contempt for.

[@shadearca]

The Emperor has no time for emo whiny boys.

[@ambushbob5383]

@@shadearca and now he's a corpse on a chair, I think he should have a spared a second or two.

[@Sorrowdusk]

@@ambushbob5383 he could become a deity. I mean he burned Nurgle's garden

[@Marcusjnmc]

I think the emperor pushed the weaker, wounded and more self destructive primarchs towards chaos, several of them would have turned on their own even had they won, like Angron, Curze, Horus, and Lorgar and Fulgrim seemed weaker than many of the others prior to demonhood, while Mortarion was both willful and broken. making some more vulnerable to bait chaos onto those and resolve others into siding more firmly with him.

[@jefreyvalencia4669]

The problem was that wasn't Mortarion but Alpharius. So Mortarion did not know anything and kept being an EdgeLord. 🤣

[@TheReaver1234]

HA!!!

[@yecnay25]

Mothman huffed too much Gasoline to comprehend that he wasn’t as abused as he thought. It’s good you drew the comparison between the brothers as Calliphone’s words to Perturabo ring true for Mortarion as well. He remains the spiteful martyr child versus the man he should have grown into.

[@chrisbennett6236]

Mortarion has been through some messed up stuff, both physically and mentally. Curze definitely suffered more mentally but I don't agree that Angron suffered more physically. I think it's easy to forget that Mortarion is disfigured inside and out. His injuries are similar to Anakin's from being in the molten rock for so long. This isn't to say Angron having his brain butchered wasn't horrible but most of his body is without scarring. I always felt that the amount of damage the Primarchs suffered prior to being found was an indication of how badly they failed their trials.

[@henryviiifake8244]

Their... _"trials"?_ This whole time, I thought the fact that the Primarchs were scattered across the galaxy was an _accident_ rather than deliberate. 🤷‍♂️

[@James_randomleters]

I suppose Russ’ all consuming ego and mindless hypocrisy could be attributed to damage from the scattering.

[@SheedRanko]

hypocrisy? yeah for sure. Ego? mhm, i wouldn't say so. The dude just knows what he is capable of, what is his role exactly.

[@seasons1745]

Lions the one with the ego

[@Marcusjnmc]

@@seasons1745 he's apparently both the most inherently loyal and the most capable in direct conflict, he could do with being more reserved and humble about it though.

[@BigHugsFromHell]

Mortarion: The only primarch who can make your room smell like a dead possum at the mere mention of his name. Here's hoping your next vid will be on the prevalence of incense censers used throughout the Imperium.

[@joshuataylor4268]

I wonder if with the Death guards role in the use of arguably the most horrific weapons of the Imperium, if Mortarion was kept on Terra for longer to convince him of the necessity of what was to come. The crusade led to many human worlds needing to be forced into compliance. Mortarion had spent his life fighting for humanity twisted by the chemical tortured atmosphere of his homeworld. He wasn't going to be used to point a bolt pistol at a human and snuff out their life, he was going to have to condemn entire worlds to twisting mutation and pain beyond anything he had fought against before. To do that you need to be pretty sure the end result is worth it.

[@McLoken]

I believe the Lion benefitted from the scattering. I think he excels at melee combat due to being on a death world. I am curious if any of the Primarchs were not scattered, would they have the personalities that they have now?

[@tokoyonokuni4656]

In the aftermath of the nail getting implanted, Angron ate his adoptive father alive. It is pretty clear that Angron suffers multiple layers of traumatisms, and that he uses the nails to cope with and being distracted from it, which is why he went so far as to implant all of his Legion instead of risking a potential cure being found by the Emperor.

[@Duppyman695]

Interesting to think Malcador was once a WarLord on Terra who joined the Empereor, I wonder how he would feel about Mortarion or Magnus redeeming themselves and re-joining the Imperium

[@helicaldota]

Malcador was there when Magnus squandered the redemption opportunity given to him during the Siege of Terra

[@itspetz7421]

@@helicaldota i like this use of squandered

[@Duppyman695]

@@helicaldota good point, I dont think any of the fallen Primarchs could come back to the Emperors light.... but it would be interesting.

[@bobbaganooch2843]

I don’t think Magnus would ever come back to the Imperium given what we know from Fury of Magnus

[@aljrvh]

@@helicaldota while I do agree with you, you got to give the dude some credit. He was literally forced to either side with his sons that did nothing wrong or sacrifice them all to return to a family that despises him save the emperor and malcador.

[@spencerherron5539]

I actually think that giving Mortarian this information is why he acted so cocky with Jagitai Khan, talking about how a reckoning was coming in regards to the storm seers and librarius.

[@shanehawkins4158]

loyalist upbringings were a walk in the park compared to traitor primarchs even the lion spent 90% of his time locked up safe and snug in a castle fortress

[@Cegorachthelaughinggod]

Since I'm suffering chronic disease I somehow find comfort in acceptance of illness and death-Mortarion is my favorite character.

[@Anawsomeplauge]

The Emperor was keeping him just to see if his technology could do something about Mortarions smell.

[@robertopompa_]

keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[@NvRDeadNed]

I think the Emperor could just be a psychic projection of Malcador like the wizard of Oz. I wouldn’t last long in the 31st Millennium once Malcador read my mind…

[@NvRDeadNed]

@george kennedy like a space marine.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Malchador: nobody sees the emperor! Nobody!No how! *shuts door in front of all the primarchs*

[@jinsakai1254]

I actually like Mortarion

[@ITHYANDEL]

I just had a thought about the primarchs' powers and life. Maybe when the emperor imbued them with certain power, destiny required the owner of those powers to experience specific hardship to become the best they could. Think of it like the rule of surprise from the witcher. What is destined to happen, by fate, curse or design, will happen. Sanguinius had a power similar to that. So the emperor, by designing the primarchs with purpose, ensure that fate would guarantee this purpose. Sorry for the rambling, it makes sense in my head.

[@rodac100cook7]

Mortarion's upbringing under a xenos overlord made him an asshole against his own basically. Lol

[@michaelhowell2326]

Since there were so many sources for the Primarchs, I wonder if Malcador added any of his own DNA?

[@TheReaver1234]

Lemme know what you learn.

[@octavius32a64]

excellent work rho!

[@Aristaios]

actually Magnus knew of the webway project he says as move in the Thousand Sons novel

[@jamesgleason2159]

When The Sigillite says "I know you believe that", I think he is referencing Purturabo.

[@coriganbemis7144]

I forsee a majestic "absolution" of Mortarion via reconciliation with the Emperor of Mankind. If only Mortarion can do that which he may have been truly made for and to do - become the Harbinger of Death. Specifically versus the Ruinous Powers and most notably that liar, Nurgle. Mortarion was there every time the Emperor allowed himself to suffer punishment for his actions and intent, thus his hubris. Emperor is arguably doing this to speak to his "Fevered Son" in the hopes that at some still indeterminate fated moment in space and time, Mortarion will allow for all of his existentialist rheumatoid-clouded perception to clear. I believe burning Nurgle's Garden was a magnificent experience for Mortarion. The Tyrant using another son - perhaps his favorite - enacting his will through Guilliman, allowing him to suffer in order to grow stronger and thus enable him to help wield the Beast that is "Power". Something I would argue the Emperor (has always wanted) needs help with. However, never having been a father - like all and every man that undertakes such terrific and terrifying of endeavors - will fail time and time again in order to learn how to succeed. .. in the hopes that one day ALL will be victorious.

[@taucer16]

Guilliman's ambition Russ's unchecked choler Dorn's lack of remorse can all be seen as flaws that were used against them in the heresy The loyalist primarchs are broken in their own ways

[@mlpsh6995]

Mortarion did have it worse than all the other Primarchs. Curze was schizophrenic but Mortarion was psychologically, emotionally and physically tortured. Angron wasn't going through constant abuse and had other slaves that he could be bond with. Mortarion was completely alone.

[@NotoriousC19]

Everybody just going for low hanging fruit calling morty a emo brat yet conveniently forget he is the primarch of rebelling. Ever since he was born he was forced to serve and fight against tyrants. Then his dad shows up out of nowhere and becomes yet another tyrant to dominate his life in addition to being a powerful psyker he can't comprehend. Are people really that surprised he turned? Emps is literally everything he spent his life fighting against minus necromancy. He truly considers himself the one to fight on the behalf of the powerless to slay the oppressors, yet people will continue to cream over a pyromaniac with a soft side and completely forget any virtues of the pre traitor primarchs

[@dansmith4394]

I'm shocked the custodes didn't step in.

[@stephaniehaney736]

Custodes won't protect anyone but The Emperor, but if the Emperor ordered them to protect Malcador then they would have stepped in. Idk if he has Malcador under protection of the Legio Custodes or not

[@lord2529]

@@stephaniehaney736 I would believe he would. Mal is considered to be part of big E's house. And the Custodes is sworn to protect the household of the Emperor. It just so happens that big E doesn't have a big family and most of his family members is more than capable of protecting themselves.

[@shadearca]

@@stephaniehaney736 Custodes were ready to fight Horus, Khan and Alpharion at the same time to protect Malcador when they confronted him but Malcador dismissed them and spanked Horus by himself. To be honest no primarch could really hurt him except Magnus. Khan was begging him to not turn Horus to dust.

[@worldsbuffestloremaster]

Something people always seem to forget is how young the primarchs were whentheywerw found and they are still human. Hoe old was morty when he starting being abused? He was full grown at 3so anything that happened to him while he was still growing happener to less a 3 year old. That sort of trauma doesnt ever go away and it needs healed to move past it. If i piss in your drink, adding sugar to it doesnt take the piss out. His drink was FILLED with piss and he wasnt giventhe time or resources to take it out.

[@christopheraaron1255]

And here's the problem with this story... if Mortarion knows about this project, why when Horus is bitching, doesn't he tell him about the Webway project? This is bullshit.

[@Marcusjnmc]

because Mortarion was jealous of Horus , perhaps, and wanted to keep it for himself to have something Horus did not.

[@rodac100cook7]

The "scattering" benefitted Jaghatai Kahn as well

[@machojones1146]

I love WH short stories but they cost the same as a full audio novel on Audible. Which is weird

[@TK-qg5tf]

$$🤷‍♂️

[@DackJaniels51111]

It would be weird if it wasn’t a gamesworkshop product. Shits been overpriced on everything they sell for years. Great stuff but massively overpriced.

[@bulwyf2572]

Mortarion has a valid gripe. He gets the cold shoulder from Malcador. The Emperor should have lifted the poison fogs to let Mortation get his revenge on his xenos "father" and kill him. That would have given Morty his closure over that and let him move on in his life serving with his real father. But we know that isn't what happened. And to point out something else Morty sure as hell has some valid gripes about living on the hell hole of Barbarus. They mention more than once in the HH novels that only Mortarion could have withstood the poison fogs on that world. It left him scarred but at least he lived through it. The other ones could not have. Compare that to Bobby G being gift wrapped a star empire from his adopted father and its no wonder Morty was bitter.

[@QixTheDS]

Those aren’t valid gripes, Mortarion is just being a brat. He was very clear about not wanting Daddy Emp’s help on Barbarus with killing the Overlord and with taking care of his people. He wanted him to fuck off which is why Daddy Emp’s made the bet with him. Mortarion didn’t want to believe he needed anyone’s help with anything to do with his homeworld but when he fails to do it alone, he blames the Emperor for taking away his victory as though it’s not Mortarion’s own fault. If Daddy Emp’s had cleared away the poison fogs so Mortarion could assault the Overlord, Mortarion would’ve just been pissed because he was way too prideful about Daddy Emp’s not intervening in any way.

[@Dexter-cg2kh]

He has gripes, just not valid ones. Morty landed on barbarous and it ducked but no one but the chaos gods had a play on that. Not to mention im sure The Emperor made it adamantly clear his plan was for them to grow on terra. So yes Morty got screwed it was outside everyone's power. Also if the Emperor lifted the poison fog for morty then it wouldn't have been a 1 v 1 and the hatred would still be there.

[@olihoisl7546]

I strongly disagree. If a child can't get a cookie you help them get it and they see that help is practical and worth it. If you instead eat the cookie the result is the same: the cookie is gone. But the child won't say thank you for eating that Cookie. Morty wanted to kill the man who tortured him for years and ran and hid between the poison clouds. The emperor definitely didn't help him. He taunted him: look I can do it you not.

[@bengale9977]

@@olihoisl7546 I don't think that's how the Emperor intended it, but that's definitely how it came off.

[@QixTheDS]

@@olihoisl7546 except Morty wasn’t a child by this point and he was extremely prideful. He’s a child reaching for a cookie and thankful for the help if someone gets it for him. He made it explicitly clear he didn’t want Emp’s help at all which is why they made the bet. Morty didn’t want help getting his cookie and said he could do it on his own. He failed to get his cookie and even if Emp’s had helped him, it wouldn’t have changed much. He still would’ve held resentment that Daddy Emp’s didn’t think he could do it all on his own so he has to help.

[@momsaid]

Angron had it worse because the nails basically made a beast out of him but Mortarion’s past was close and far worse than anyone else’s that we’ve seen

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Middle School Mentality. He wants to fit in, but he is special and has it harder than EVERYBODY ELSE. Perturabo and Mortarion suffer from the same albatross, the compulsive desire to prove themselves worthy. Add Fulgrim.

[@zthoop64]

bitching about his life infront of angron, mortarion would not survive that. also I feel like russ and dorn would have benefited from being raised on earth, russ would probably be less... confrontational about certain ideas and magnus, while dorn MIGHT have been able to emote if his father raised him. big might there though.

[@Archon3960]

He is fully capable of the laughter... x)

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

I mean Russ had very valid concerns, let's be fair.

[@zthoop64]

@@FoxHound-ut1hu he did, he just didnt voice his concerns well.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

@@zthoop64 true, I imagine that can happen when you're literally raised by wolves 😂

[@zthoop64]

@@FoxHound-ut1hu honestly, I'm surprised he can speak English and doesn't just communicate through growls.

[@mlpsh6995]

I think you point about Mortarion being given a huge show of trust is totally wrong. Maybe to you it looks like an act of trust but a) how do we know Emperor and Malcador didn't plan it in some way, and b) it may not have been interpreted as an act of trust by Mortarion. What an act might look like to someone on the outside may look very different to the receiver.

[@-Gilver]

Everytime i hear an angry primarch story it makes me wish these guys had a mom As in a mother figure alongside the Emperor

[@phyoishere]

Apparently...there was. In one of the latter books when roboute came back to life

[@R0m0n3]

She scattered them

[@TheTyrial86]

I have to wonder. If the web way was completed. Then the emperor would have had to eliminate most of the legions. As the larg amount of them old not be needed because of the web way. Maybe this is why both daddy E and malcador didn't want to divulge the information to the rest of the boys.

[@tylerdenneson7320]

"could the likes of *list of loyalist primarchs* have really have been damaged by the scattering? It seems to have made them stronger through experience." That's a pretty narrow theory but hey that's why people are here right.

[@CoolCraftCool]

Word of Angron and Konrad Curze wont have reached them yet this is Mortarion first coming to Terra he will be compairing to the brothers he knows about so Lion El, Sanguinius and yes they didnt have it as bad.

[@tersan5043]

Was malcador “upgraded” by the Emporer? I can’t see him ALWAYS being strong enough to chump Primarchs down.

[@samsleeeze2793]

Farus manus had the hardest "childhood".

[@duncanlupercalholmes]

I know this is off topic. But with alpaharious new story how does this go hand in hand with the heresy? Did the emperor know alpharious and.omegon were gng to turn traitor

[@booradley6832]

Wait.... How did malcador put a hand on Mortarions back? Primarchs are like 10-12 ft tall and Malcador is a shrunken old man with bad spinal curvature.

[@R0m0n3]

😏

[@Ashtor1337]

Or is he?

[@booradley6832]

Biggest twist on the lore is that one of the ancient terran names Malcador went by was "Shaq"

[@lord2529]

@@booradley6832 of House O'neal?

[@booradley6832]

is there a more prestigious one?

[@martingrimes1215]

Cut him a break though. My man did have it rough on that death worlld.

[@darkbrowncasket]

@ 12:45 , what book did that happen in ? I must've missed that and would love to read it.

[@gavincross2902]

Acer Acerpori. The emperors weaknesses show in the 9 far too prevelantly.

[@jupiter7795]

Honestly, the Emperor was probably keeping Morty on Terra just to troll. There's a giant kill complex deep in the Imperial Palace that is large enough for several legions. Empy planned the Heresy, but didn't expect it to go the way it did. He couldn't have allowed hundreds of thousands of killing machines to exist after Humanity conquered the galaxy.

[@Gotten1888]

Eh he might have wanted to put them on ice because the Necron's were still around and he orks could always spawn a Beast if left unchecked for too long

[@mlpsh6995]

The secrets and lies aren't a good idea, if Malcador and the Emperor had been a bit more truthful and honest Mortarion wouldn't be so angry, resentful and suspicious. In many ways they are behaving just like N'kari.

[@banneduser5187]

Mortarion: "One day, one of the primarchs will be the the end of you... and maybe it'll be me" Malcador: "Come abit closer boy i can't hear you from up there" Mortarion: "One day..." Malcador: (SLAP) Mortarion: "But, buttt.. my father" Malcador: "Is not here, boy, I am. (angry) He told me to lie to you and say i don't know where he is... you know that? But i can tell you for a fact he's actually on the roof of the palace right now smoking a spliff with your brother vulkan, AVOIDING YOU... (coughs/calms down) Now get out of my way before you i slap you for real this time. I've got a hot date with one of those kinky goth looking eldar chicks'"

[@brianjohnson5272]

Yay more on mad MoMo.

[@eichler721]

This is just more evidence that Mortarian was a child and everything the Emperor and the Imperium did to help him and his people and for that he turned traitor just like Logar he had plenty of help, trust, and love he just threw it away. Angron did get screwed but Mortarian didn't he choose to be traitor.

[@RSBurgener]

I don't believe the Emperor is nearly as benevolent as he seems on the surface. The thing that swayed me was hearing about how the Emperor did not truly feel the Primarchs were his sons and how he would refer to them as "it" outside their presence when speaking to Malcador. That appaled me. He deceived his "sons" many times or withheld the truth from them. He encouraged rivalries between them which turned really ugly in some cases. Couple that with his purging of the Thunder Warriors, and I'm really not sure he truly loved the Primarchs. I think they might have just been a means to an end to him. That said, abuse can really hamper a person's emotional development, even mental development in some cases. I think both Mortarion and Perturabo suffered from this. Neither of them were in a place where they should've been handed command of an entire legion of superhuman warriors. But as you said, the Emperor was always in a race against time.

[@ericcloud1023]

Wolf Lord Rho, I humble myself before you *Bows* how might I serve my-lord

[@mxm23adregalusandmore62]

Wait...If Morty knew about the webway project then why he didn't tell Horus about it when he turned to Chaos? Seems like a missed oportunity to strike directly at the Heart of Terra, and a dumb mistake on Malcador's part. Again, who wrote this?

[@iantoppler4124]

So the conclusion is, Dr. Astartes and the other onethat scattered the primarched (in the retcon) really screwed to pooch.

[@shanavalkyria3438]

Would be interesting if it turned out the primarches and their leigens , the heresy etc was all just the Emperor and the chaos gods way of playing really advanced chess. With people

[@henryviiifake8244]

In that case, the Emperor walked the entire human species into the receiving end of a checkmate. 🤔

[@SMG_Games]

Anyone else think to themselves, Please Mortarian cry and bemoan your life more. its gonna fix so much.

[@worldeater2414]

Guess im the third commenter. And right between my tea breaks too!

[@monkeybuizznes1]

Jeez, how many primarchs beat up Malcador?

[@randomcenturion7264]

A lot of them. Mortarion. Lorgar. Jaghati. Magnus did a LOT more than just "Beat him up." Old Uncle Malcador was not well liked by most of the Primarchs.

[@shadearca]

@@randomcenturion7264 Malcador did not care to respond in kind to any of them and he could easily have, except Magnus who was by far the strongest primarch.

[@BARBARIAN198]

Mortarion may have had the worse experience. One persons experience and anothers is relative to the invidual and often what may seem worse for one may actually be easier than another. Eitherway the primarchs who turned i generally feel for the most as they often experienced more hardship, forging bonds and using their strength against overwhelming odds in the world they were cast into. The way the emporer brought mortarion back into the imperium same with angron was disgusting and goes against the values desired by the emporer or any warrior would look for.

[@ThelastdesertRanger]

Where is a good place to start in the black library

[@deantaylor4568]

Horus Rising! It's book 1 and a very good place to start.

[@daniell1483]

I've long held that one of the main reasons many Primarchs fell to Chaos is because of the Emperor's secrecy. I've wondered how things might be different if He had set them all down, like a coach, and told them the game plan. Would getting every Primarch on board with the Webway Project have been enough to prevent the fall to Chaos, the Heresy, and so on? Before this story, I thought so. But if Mortarion knew the plan and still fell to Chaos, perhaps getting all the Primarchs to work on the same plan would still not have been enough.

[@docvaliant721]

I believe the Lion had it the worst. Just imagine a primarch whining around the lion.

[@marthlink5015]

Yea sucks Angron got probably the Rawest deal of the primarchs, i can't see how the Emperor saw him placing the butcher's nails in his sons and not realize... 'Yea he's WAY too far gone and needs to be benched, healed or put down'. Big E literally KNOWS the chaos gods and their nature and doesn't think how sons like Magnus or Angron might easily be manipulated by them if not enlightened or strictly looked after, while he wouldn't have to worry as much over someone Like Russ cause his curse, Lion, Rogal, or Guilli cause they one aren't in touch with the warp well and two are pretty well rounded...

[@ramboapples6854]

I have to side with Malcador on this. Especially since he seemed to view many of the Primarchs as unruly children. But I find it strange that Mortarion witnessed the construction of something made to transport vast armies and titans, and didn't think to bring it up to his brothers.

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

I'm new to the lore, who is malcador?

[@henryviiifake8244]

The Emperor's right-hand man and BFF.

[@shadearca]

Malcador was a "normal" human, the Emperor's only real friend, most trusted servant, and the second strongest psyker in the Imperium after the Emperor, okej maybe Magnus was a bit stronger but it is unclear. Watch the video Horus confronts Malcador on this channel to get a glimpse of the size of balls and power we are talking about.

[@cgrmspartacusmbeobeiou4313]

A bar of soap a toothbrush and a timely good hiding from BDE/TGOMK could have made all the difference in the future of the imperium….

[@michaelf.7339]

Really love your primarch weeks and your picture of Mortarion is pretty acurate. For me personally, however, Mortarion is, even compared to Curze and Perturabo, one of if not the primarch that I can identify with the least. I can't help but get the impression that he always just behaves as a grumpy, disagreeing pissed weirdo no matter how people interact with him and you can never be sure if he really understands or if he is just childish/defiant/stubborn by principle. Being a psycher himself but arguing against "witches" at any possible occasion doesn't help to change this. I think Calas Typhon has way more character than Mortarion.

[@jamesshpendi5819]

You have to understand tho, Mortarion was tortured for who knows how long by his adoptive father, Mortarion life’s goal was to kill his adoptive father, and the emperor took that away, plus Mortarion wants to be a servant to no one, so it of course won’t fit well that he is serving a psyker, it’s also not like he chose to be a psyker himself

[@Ashtor1337]

@@jamesshpendi5819 he failed to kill the overlord. It's wasnt taken from him. He was on the floor dieing when the emperor rushed in and saved him. He was offered help and declined it. Morty had no one to blame but himself.

[@jamesshpendi5819]

@@Ashtor1337 the emperor put Mortarion to kill the overlord becuase he new that Mortarion couldn’t, of course Mortarion failed but that was only becuase at the time the emperor challenged him, if the emperor didn’t kill the overlord, or even never gave the challenge, Mortarion would have been able to kill the overlord and take his revenge for all the torturous things he did to him, but the emperor took that from him, instead of just saving him and not killing the overlord or simply just waiting for the right time, he took Mortarion a life work away from him

[@thatotherguy8138]

My guess for this is that the Emperor didn't trust Mortarion to lead his legion in service to the Emperor. And Malcador thought he found a key to unlock Mortarion's loyalty, showed him the Webway and the plan to get rid of Psykers, thinking it would make Mortarion loyal. Which... might have been the correct decision. If Chaos had not corrupted Horus, maybe Mortarion wouldn't have fallen to Chaos either. Maybe the plan would have worked out and Mortarion would have fought to the end of the Crusade, probably dying somewhere along the way, or eventually committing the kind of crimes that the Lost Primarchs did and was killed by Russ and erased from History. (which is what I'm starting to think was the Emperor's plan for at least half of the Primarchs - once the Crusade was over, they would be a threat to the stability of the Empire so would have to be eliminated somehow.)

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

Morrtarion is a character I want to like but I just don't.

[@TV-qm8ob]

Hi

[@blp5778]

Mortarion is a millennial transported to the 30th millennium.

[@stevenyanis9051]

Anybody else watch these at 1.25x speed?

[@timsmith5335]

I think Mortarion may be the first or only to be redeemed.

[@thecommentguy9380]

Mortarion and Magnus are 2 most likely candidates for redemption

[@bengale9977]

@@thecommentguy9380 isn't Magnus' "good side" already kind of redeemed?

[@thecommentguy9380]

@@bengale9977 "good side", you mean janus or someone else?

[@bengale9977]

@@thecommentguy9380 yes the part of Magnus that made Janus.

[@thecommentguy9380]

@@bengale9977 well im talking of the main part of Magnus. I think it's Janus, aka Magnus' last shard, could be Magnus' key to freeing himself and his (chapter sized) legion seeing it's the only shard not chained to Tzeentch's will.