THE GUILT OF PROSPERO! THE INNER TURMOIL OF RUSS!

[@maxwellfujs6124]

Black library has been building this story for a long time and I love this story arc. All the primarchs are human and are all susceptible to their own emotions. I feel like one day in the future, Russ will encounter Magnus again in a cataclysmic way and one or both will be slain, but not before this truth is revealed to both. The seeds planted 10,000 years ago Can only bear bitter fruit

[@LCliffhanger]

Well to be fair, I'm not so sure this is a "new development" as the book this is from is now 11 years old, but there's a lot of heresay regarding 40k lore and biased scewing of facts and a lot of people think they know lore eve if they haven't read or listened to the book that covers said lore. For instance some space wolf fans still dislike the Lion and the Dark Angels purely because they know their favourite chapter has a fued and that their favourite Primarch doesn't like the Lion. But they don't know that they actually became close friends after the heresy or the various other nuanced elements of the story despite the book that covered it being 6 years old. I find it really takes a while for a lot of people to find out what the actual lore is. For instance the latest Alpharius Lore suggests that it was actually Omegon that was killed by Dorn and that Alpharius is actually still alive. Hell I think it's still a pretty obscure fact that the Lions cannonically an excellent singer, that lores 15 years old 55, why is this never mentioned in any Lore Videos that cover the Lion!?

[@glandhound]

@@LCliffhanger Using 'Alpharius' as your name is the sop for Alpha Legion marines. Using logic to describe any 20th legion behavior will make your head hurt. The Alpharius in the book Praetorian of Dorn was a brainscrewd legion captain so did Dorn even kill Alpharius in the first place or was it the one that was hypnotized and fed Alpharius' blood so his memories would change. I like the wolves and I hate the 1st, but that's because Dark Angels are all about riding horses, hiding in a forest and hunting geese which is boring in a sci-fi universe to me. LionEl is also a bit of a dick, just read the Pharos novella where he refuses to believe anything a lowly ultra marine aspirant says about future dreams. Magnus is also a bit of a dick. After he broke his dad's computer he acted like an emo and stayed in his room for a week, killed his equerry for existing and arranged Ahriman to torture a remembrancer to death, the justification being that she was dying anyway so let's just torture her because of her futurevisions. Magnus also could have saved his legion and Prospero by SURRENDERING via the vox.... but it's more emo to wait until your home planet and everything in it is destroyed and only after that give up and let your brother to bear the emotional trauma of killing you. Not forgetting the part where you donate your legion and yourself to a chaos god 2 seconds after getting killed. No one remembers these things or maybe they just haven't read their HH novels.

[@LCliffhanger]

@@glandhound no, Dorn definitely killed one of the alpha brothers, he had a little doubt but I think the author confirmed it was a primarch that Dorn killed. Now for most of the books featuring the Alpha Legion, Omegon generally seemed to be the one that was most reluctant to turn on the Emperor and generally the more loyal of the two even sabotaging an alpha legion operation in the Serpent Beneath. But the Alpharius Primarch book shows us the Alpharius was the first found Primarch AND that he and his brother swapped names, so Alpharius would be referred to as Omegon and Omegon would be referred too as Alpharius, so as "Alpharius" was killed by Dorn, we now know it was actually Omegon, which also explains why the book ends with Omegon recieving the news that his brother is dead and he's like "well you see...I am Alpharius" Also sure, the Lion can be a dick but he's shown he can also be pretty caring, at least for his own Legionaries but also for his brothers. He suffers from quite a few writers interpretations and sometimes they focus on his negative qualities. As for Magnus...yea das all tru. I think Horus and Fulgrim have the best falls to chaos and the rest are generally pretty crap, except Kurze, his is pretty good. But all in all, writers try to make the other traitors sympathetic but at the cost of making the emperor and loyalists look like, it kinda feels like they try to write a bunch of the traitors as the bullied little brothers, instead of fuckin demigods that fell from grace, and at worse they were already terrible to begin with. Like godamn, every story featuring Angron just begs the question "what the fuck did the emperor see in this guy?" Angron is absolutely useless except for the fact that he becomes one of the main Daemon Primarchs.

[@maxwellfujs6124]

@@LCliffhanger honestly I’m only on book 2 of the Horus heresy novels so I apologize ha ha. I could’ve sworn this book came out recently, I think some others space Wolf book had a recent release or something. I have no idea. I love the lore and voraciously consume it and I’ve read a fair amount of 40K books but I’m learning more every day.

[@ZekeBuildsSlow]

The view that Magnus some how cheated in the fight because he used his powers is an odd one, it's like looking down on Russ for having a gun And a sword. If you have an ability or weapon at hand to use on an enemy why wouldn't you use it if you had to?

[@Subject_Keter]

I havent read it but wasnt it like Russ getting extra pissed when Magnus hit him with Sorcery that made him go "Magnus has truly gone off the deep end!" Also Sorcery is generally "easier" to look down on then a firefight or pitched melee battle. If you get cornered or counter that fair but if someone crushes your head with mind powers... that bullcrap.

[@ZekeBuildsSlow]

@@Subject_Keter I believe you're right on the first part and I get what you mean about the mind powers thing. I'm just on the fence because these are talents more or less baked into them by their father. If it was Russ vs Sanguinius is it still cheating if the angel picks up Russ and drops him from 50+ miles in the air? Or even if he's just using his gift of foresight to dodge and weave around Russ's blows. Or if Vulkan uses his teleport homer to blip them into a volcano is that cheating because Vulkan is a perpetual and is probably gonna be fine?

[@glandhound]

Magnus wanted to get killed, after breaking the webway, he trashed his room waited for a week under his bed (literally what happens) instead of surrendering, saving Prospero and his legion.

[@ZekeBuildsSlow]

uh... okay and that relates to the current topic of his powers being used during the final duel how? Like was that just a dunk on Magnus lol? If we're dunking then let's talk about how Russ royally soiled the bed trying and failing to kill Horus but hey he sure did inflict The Weakness to Horus that let the Emperor win that they've retconned four times now and def won't again making him losing 4/5th his legion pointless, promise. Anyway to clarify, I was never commenting on the writing for the primarchs character traits or personalities I was commenting on the community around this duel seeming to think it's wrong for these two in a literal life or death duel to use any and ever means to achieve victory. If you think that's wrong then in my opinion that's dumb and for my reasons on that look at the posts you seem to have blown past.

[@brendanmuller7301]

@@glandhound Nah he wanted to give up. Leman and his legion chimped out or wolfed out I guess and decided "fuck these mages" and started murdering them

[@frankacciarito6099]

Russ 100% wears a mask! Horus even comments on it at the their first meeting noting Russ is more a man pretending to be a savage than vice Versa. Russ knows exactly what he was made for and will do his duty but not without first trying to head it off at the pass(as he did with showing Angron his folly and repeatedly warning Magnus). he will do his job and act as ordered but with a heavy heart. All that in built loyalty he was “programmed” with extends to his family! His pack! The only other 20 creatures in existence like himself! Personally I feel the emperor erased Russ’s mind of killing the other primarchs since (a) Russ remarks that his fight with Angron is the first conflict of Astartes vs Astartes and that happens after all 20 primarchs are found and (b) Russ shows such remorse at the thought of having to kill another brother but not commenting on the previous lost 2 but still feeling the reluctance that I believe the emperor erased those memories to ease the guilt Russ felt but couldn’t get rid of said guilt as easy as wiping those memories. This Russ’s heartfelt plea to Magnus was just that, from the heart! 100% agree with that Russ is way more complex than any gave him credit for! When tha Alpha legion is hunting them he reflects to Bjorn that they will now set their own course and not just be the attack dogs of the imperium, which is basically saying to hell with what my father says, we will do what is right! Which for the super loyal Russ is huge to say, but his regret over his actions has made him reflect and really re-examine his decisions.

[@frankacciarito6099]

Also, hells yes Horus feared Magnus!! Malcador made him his bitch can you’re imagine what A pissed off Magnus would do!

[@henrypaleveda7760]

tear the chaos out of horus?

[@bobydigital2450]

To be fair Magnus has the reverse plot armor. Should be the strongest being asside from the gods and big E and still lose

[@specter86fl]

Rus only brought one of the lost primarchs in to be incarcerated under the golden palace. And thats because the other was actually killed by this brother Rus brought in, Hence the "lost and forgotten" one brother was lost, to the hands of a fellow primarch, and the other, was forgotten, for his deeds against his late brother. This is also why their plinths still remain, why their quarters still remain, why they are still honored in seceret if you will, because neither were traitors, this was a result of a personal quarrel that went too far.

[@rankcolour8780]

Sadly not the case. There is a story where Malcador removes the memory wipe of the missing brothers that Dorn asked to be put in place from Dorn for just a few moments to allow him to remember and Dorn realises with total horror horror that if they were still around the Imperium and the heresy would already have been lost. Whatever they did it was bad enough that everyone agreed they should not be remembered at all, getting Malcador to memory scrub them.

[@JuanPalomoM]

I’d like some source on that

[@surtrpicks]

@@JuanPalomoM they’ve been discussing it lately actually. The 2 and 11 legions with prisoner 11 and the date full of twos just past. Look up recently old vids from here as I believe he covers it.

[@vx8431]

@@JuanPalomoM Newest codex for Custodes and the short story The Chamber At The End Of Memory. Is what spawned these speculations.

[@JuanPalomoM]

@@vx8431 i know the codex bits. Still no grounds to speculate and not acknowledge it is just that, like OP wrote.

[@FRODOGOOFBALL]

This really changes my view of the Prospero events. How close the Imperium may have come to averting this tragedy....

[@glandhound]

I urge you to read Thousand Sons and understand Magnus' side of things. Prospero didn't have to get burned, Magnus wanted it to happen.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

"A sword in the Wrong Hands!" Russ was clearly all to eager to execute Magnus, but as he became aware of the Heresy, he realised it was wrong. We see him make excuses to Bjorn and Himself in novels, and later to Rogal Dorn. But Malcador got it perfectly right, when he stated, that Russ sought out Horus on a doomed one vs one quest mostly out of guilt and a desire for redemption. And that guilt also stopped him from killing Horus. Russ is a tragic failure throughout the entire Heresy. Great storytelling!

[@commissarlugh1040]

Russ is that older brother that's also the family fuck up.

[@henrypaleveda7760]

not entirely failure, but he held true more to the credit than magnus, and that's from a thousand sons' fan.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@henrypaleveda7760 Interestingly, I do see one last chance for Russ to get a clean important win. If the soul-wound he inflicted on Horus comes back as a weakness or a step in Horus's defeat, then he gets a solid lore win.

[@henrypaleveda7760]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen or even his sparing a chaos fueled horus, obviously the wrong decision, but it occurs that chaos doesn't understand nor enjoy mercy and this might solidify or make that soul wound worse, or at least begin to reach the actual horus.

[@glandhound]

You sound like someone who hasn't actually read the books. In the book Thousand Sons, Magnus is the biggest failure. I liked the part where he stayed in his room for a week after destroying the webway. Magnus is the reason Prospero burned, he could have surrendered when Russ' fleet arrived or even earlier but instead he thought the good guy thing to do was to literally wait in his pyramid and not acting until a lot of Wolves, Custodians, Silent Sisters, his Sons and a lot the human population of Prospero died. Magnus the nice guy.

[@mikeypark2917]

I feel all week your bias has been trying to picture Russ as a lot more rational and loving character but let’s not forget right before the burning of Prospero, Valdor tried to remind Russ that Valdor was there to help Russ bring Magnus back to Terra, and make sure Russ doesn’t go overboard. However it fell on deaf ears cus Russ just completely brushes off Valdors comments. Also Lemans “apology” did not sound like a sincere apology at all. It sounded more like a threat than an apology which makes me think Leman really actually didn’t think what he and his wolves did was such an issue. Now I agree there is a misconception Fuss was just battle hungry savage but he definitely wasn’t one of the most rational nice loving primarchs either

[@Va11idus]

Leman is like 75% petulant child. I definitely notice the bias lol

[@Zhentarim]

it doesn't matter much if he was convincing or not, he showed that he was willing to not just open fire, giving him the chance to surrender and go talk to the emperor personally, or to Russ himself, which is said by Vulcan to him later. and it is good to remember that what was done would easily put anyone under suspicion of treason

[@Mesozoic_mammal]

Prospero deactivated the planetary defense and the wolfs attacked anyway. Oculus was right: Russ wanted Magnus dead.

[@dragan404]

Nah he wanted punishment not complete genocide, Russ hates magic so he wanted the Thousands sons to remember this consequence for a long time

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

It is really the most plausible read in my opinion.

[@thescarletpumpernel3305]

I don't think Russ 'wanted' him dead, he just saw it as his duty as executioner and indeed Magnus wanted the Emperor's punishment out of shame, which spurred Russ on. Mostly Russ probably felt he was the wrong man at the wrong time, as he couldn't talk Magnus back from the precipice and ended up the instrument of fate just like Magnus had which later meant he could empathise with his brother's position.

[@bobydigital2450]

I prefer Russ wanting him dead. If not he just sound stupid

[@aguspuig6615]

russ: asks magnus to lay down his defenses magnus: does as asked russ: alright bro *breaks his fucking back*

[@brandonvallier4214]

You forgot how the thousand sons chose to fight rather then lay down their weapons

[@lobogonzalo4745]

You forget Magnus kicking ass with bare hands while killing Emperor's army controlling a Titan with his mind

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

In the book A Thousand Sons, Magnus and Amon both go through the warp and literally watch Russ in his ship. BS Magnus didn't hear Russ' plea.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

True, the 15th legion got the word, they were corrupted. 1st Legion, 1st Team.

[@Thozel]

If that is the logic then he also must have seen the "hidden one" that was spawn of chaos....and do nothing?

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

@@Thozel probably did. Hes not good

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@Michal Nemet, true.

[@jaffaholland4039]

I think that Russ got this totally wrong, as far as I can see he did not hail Magnus, he talked to an individual who he felt had a direct link to Magnus when this was not the case. Magnus had turned off the defences to show in my view that he was loyal. The fact that Russ and his sons then blindly attacked is one of the saddest things in 40K. Magnus and his children would not then spend 1000s years trying to kill the Wolves.

[@seansartin8866]

Well keep reading. They tried for hours on every available frequency and telepathically. No one picked up the phone.

[@Subject_Keter]

I remember Magnus did a spell to prevent people from seeing the ships or getting the signals or something as he expected Russ to come down and lob his head off. So while Magnus was throwing a pity party, the Wolves didnt know if they were preparing for war, surrender or whatever and considering how they are... couldnt risk it.

[@brandonvallier4214]

Magnus sulked in his tower and used his powers to blind his son's so they couldn't see the ships coming with their gifts then gave up. His son's said no and raised the defences and went out to meet the wolves in combat.

[@eldradulthran6482]

​@@seansartin8866This is why it's important to read both books. Tzeentch interfered to prevent communication between them.

[@seansartin8866]

@@eldradulthran6482 that doesn't mean Russ fucked up.

[@imperatorlightoneous1382]

Just when I needed you the most, you appeared! Thank you for your impecable timing brother

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Russ clearly wanted to kill Magnus, but was willing to talk. Magnus was suicidal and wallowing in his failures. Magnus didn't try to contact Russ, as he believed the killing-attack was unavoidable. They are both equally guilty here. But!! Russ struck first with a fucking Exterminatus-grade attack as the opening move. Russ was ordered to bring Magnus in alive, and let his hatred for Magnus be played on by Horus!

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@AlexPhaeronofMarbles What I meant was, that before Russ decided to begin the attack by trying to commit planetary genocide and slaughter his family (and a marvel of an imperial city) via orbital bombardment, they were equally to blame. After that, Magnus and especially Ahriman was totally on the moral high-ground.

[@MajinOthinus]

Magnus' flaw might have been arrogance in the notion that he could know anything, but Russ' flaw definetly was that he thought that he did know everything.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

How do you get there? The central point of the 6th's warpcraft is knowledge of their own limits. "You can know too much." Do you remember this whole interchange from Prospero Burns? Russ and the Wolves KNOW they don't know, and don't want to know. That's why there's the big quote on philosophical nominalism from Shakespeare, Troilus and Cressida, at the beginning of the book. Dan's whole point was Magnus' being an anus that was really only guided by his will, not his intellect.

[@MajinOthinus]

@@kingbaldwiniv5409 You said it yourself: The 6th claim that they know all that is worth knowing and seeing as something that isn't worth knowing isn't really knowledge, they thus claim to know everything.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@MajinOthinus, you took one step beyond the syllogism. They don't claim that something that isn't worth knowing ceases to be knowledge. That is not internally consistent with their intentionally staying away from the occult libraries, xenos knowledge, etc. They know that there is something to be known, they deny themselves that knowledge on purpose in order to preserve themselves from temptation and corruption. It would be like the wise avoiding consulting occult rites, spirit mediums, etc. If they claimed to know everything, then they would have no reason to avoid delving into books by xenos or lore of the occult. They know that they are intentionally limiting themselves to their own sort of limited warpcraft, properly structured and disciplined, to avoid corrupting excess.

[@Va11idus]

​@@kingbaldwiniv5409 lmao gold medal for the mental gymnastics there. 🏅

[@ledzep215]

Congrats on 100k my dude!

[@lolbots686]

Janus stood before russ. Janus had expected russ to go feral. To rage. Not so. He changed. Heavily. Where once stood the feral,wrathful and hypocritical lord of the wolves,stood a broken but better man. "...Magnus?" Russ said confused. "In a sense,thanks to your handywork. I see karma finally cought up with you." "...I'm sorry. For everything." Guiliman and the lion eyed janus and russ closely. Janus sneered in anger. "Sorry? Oh yes,funny. Did you feel sorry for when you and your men genocided prospero? Did you or your men ever feel sorry for being the emporors lapdog?" "Magnus,this is not the time for-" Janus eyed the lion darkly. The lion went silent. "Because last i checked. You razed prospero to the ground, basically dropping me before chaos,then you attacked horus and half your legion,the men who trusted you with there lives died for You. Were you sorry then?" "What else could i say magnus? Yes,i destroyed prospero and chased horus. But that does not mean i dont regret it. Contrary to what you think,i carried out what i did with a heavy heart,i tried to contact you even! If you still can't see pass tzeenchs manipulations even as you yourself in this form are free of taint,then what does that say about you? Think on that." Russ left,with the lion sighing and following. Guiliman then looked at janus. "I hope your happy with yourself. Its been 10 gods forsaken milenia,and you still refuse to let go of your grudge?" "Why do you think roboute? If maccrage had suffered the same,would you carry such a grudge?" "I would. But nor would i attempt to seek vengeance or whatever else for so long. Even as a noble shard,you still carry that poison of hate. And sooner or later,it will be your downfall just as pride was for you. I did not agree with Russ either,but hes changed. I saw it for myself. He helped a xenos god,an aeldari god for that matter. The old russ would rather die then work with xenos or anything of the sort,orders be dammed." Janus was silent as he heard. Then nodded. "I...your right. True. ..." Janus left. To be continued

[@primachpepe8597]

returning back to this, and though i havent watched the full series you have done Rho, i do wish to answer your question. Leman can regret his decisions as much as he wants, but it is the Wolf King who speaks. He only regrets his actions once he realizes he was tricked, knowing that not only did he get fooled into destroying what was for all intents and purposes an ally - a powerful one for the loyalist side at that, but by destroying them, that gave the enemy a more level playing field. Hell, the wolves marched besides Legio Mortis during the Prosperine burning and look at what they became. He is ashamed at how easily he was duped, and what "allies" he fought with. The Wolf King, so mighty, so tenacious, so stupid. The thousand sons did not side with either side in the conflict, due to what happened to them. They would have sided with the loyalists, at least from my understanding, as aside from the trial of the Crimson king, there was no real animosity between the 15th and the imperium compared to the likes of the Death Guard, World Eaters or Iron Warriors. Had Magnus been brought back to Terra, along with the majority of his legion, the Empire would still be held. Magnus would have fulfilled his duty as the locus of the Golden throne. Also i must push back, when Russ was speaking to that "spy", he was doing so to justify his actions to himself. He did not make the effort, he did not do all he could, he did not speak to his brother. It is like speaking to your nephew and expecting your brother to respond. I do not for a second believe that he truly believed that the spy was linked to Magnus. He could have spoken with Magnus, before landing. Both via the Telepathica & simple vox when in system orbit. It was as if he was speaking to himself, to a mirror, or in the shower, having those arguments knowing full well that they would not happen in reality. It does show a sliver of humanity, but it also shows his arrogance. The Wolf King came, as was his lapdog nature, for war, unthinking and uncaring. He was the executioner after all. It was his mandate that brought him, irrespective of what Russ thought, it is the wolf king who commands the 6th.

[@fumarc4501]

This is strong “This could have been solved with a phone call” energy.

[@codybates2419]

Russ is such a tragic figure. He fails to sway Angron in their fight, hesitates in killing Horus when he has the chance and literally breaks Magnus when he wasn't supposed to.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

It shows how good Russ really is.

[@glandhound]

@@kingbaldwiniv5409 All of that because Magnus felt like an emo and didn't surrender until his planet is destroyed. He literally waited in his room for a week after breaking the webway. Grab a vox Magnus, save your planet and your legion and SURRENDER but no, it's more cool to be all emo and trash your room and wait until you get spanked. Read Thousand Sons, this is literally what happens.

[@slevinlaine]

@@glandhound As I recall, the message from Russ to Magnus "save your planet and your legion and SURRENDER" it's in Prospero Burns, but aside from that and some semantics, I agree with you.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@glandhound, that is in fact absolutely true. Magnus goes emo and pouts in his tower until it hits the fan.

[@overlycaffeinatedsquirrel779]

All of this can still be laid at the feet of the Emperor. He was only interested in playing family instead of being one. As though he enjoyed being called father. He enjoyed playing the part, but it’s beyond clear the primarchs were always just tools.

[@dumbidea1007]

No russ could have done like khan and wait a second to see what was happening like the custody told him but he was a dumbass

[@lobogonzalo4745]

The third time I watched this video, at the time the wolf king was pleading to his brother I remembered another story connected to this one. That one time Logan Grimnar called for Bjorn the fell handed to go against Prospero for the second time, and he responded we broke the Legion. I don't know exactly why but maybe is the sadness in their voices.

[@devilsbane598UT]

This channel is among the best warhammer channels

[@surtrpicks]

Very tragic, if there was but a moment where Magnus could have actually told someone Horus has betrayed them….how different events would have played out surely.

[@dac314]

I'm with you, but Magnus likely felt Russ might've been corrupted already.

[@glandhound]

Emperor already knew about it anyway. Magnus' folly was thinking he knew more than anyone else. Arrogance seems to be the reason for most of the shit happens in the lore.

[@surtrpicks]

@@glandhound didn’t Horus convince Leman to go harder on Magnus? If so then the Emperor just allowed the misunderstanding?

[@BadGladeCrazy]

@@surtrpicks The original task given by the Emperor was to just capture Magnus and his legion but Horus changed the massage to destroy him.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

There's a huge difference between not liking someone and not caring about someone it's possible to not like someone but still care for them

[@xavier84623]

How awkward it must have been for that one guy, leman is getting all emotional and he is just like “I’m not a spy bro”.

[@greenskinzgaming5188]

I feel like the all the primarchs exhibit independent thought except Russ. He's always the lapdog, always following orders like you'd expect Guilliman to do. For playing as a wolf, he's very obedient. Maybe its just lazy writing on a one-dimensional character of "me rage. me follow order. me use weapon." A legion battle between Russ and Perturabo would be really interesting. Or a primarch fight between Russ and Curze.

[@kelman727]

Ever read Wolfsbane...?

[@darksider2903]

Well he actually didn't follow Emperor's order. Emp ordered to arrest magus and take back to terra alive, use anything to do so. Russ was a hot headed prideful troublemaker.

[@papidorn7938]

Peterturbo would wipe the floor with Russ in a legion to legion battle, Perty fought Demon angron and won, Kurze would kick his ass no problem, he fought the Lion who knocked out Russ and Robute at the same time.

[@marthlink5015]

@@papidorn7938 Agreed Russ would get absolutely smacked by Pert and even an all out fight with their legions Iron Warriors will put space wolves to shame- so strong they were the battle against terra quite literally fell apart without them. Kurze went rogue fought three primarchs and evaded them for months. He also fought basically his opposite Korax and saved lorgar during the dropsite massacre. Korax knew that either they'd both die or more likely he'd just get killed. And even Korax in his bird form would likely trash Russ who's probably a mid-tier primarch.

[@darksider2903]

@@marthlink5015 i can put a bet on, Even Constantine Valdor can beat Russ.

[@Skerra-kk6sm]

It's always bothered me that Malcador was able to stop Horus in his tracks, but Magnus who was arguably much more powerful, couldn't stop Russ. I've always kind of thought Russ was a latent psycher and that would explain why he was able to resist Magnus so well.

[@thechadcruzaider7864]

well all primarchs pretty much have latent psychic energy within them so makes sense

[@marthlink5015]

It's moreso Russ has much more genetic resistance to chaos than Horus- this is why in some ways Horus was kinda screwed once he got shanked. On top of that his idiot legion only made it worse by allowing Erebus to mind fuck him while he was already in critical condition. Horus had no real showings of any psi resist or chaos resist like some of his brothers besdes that of an innate primarch.

[@willy.b.b3427]

Well, it's often forgotten, but malcador wasn't just an uncle to the primarchs. But he was also a huge part in creating them. He knows more about them than anyone, save the emperor. Add that onto the fact that he's 1 of the 5 greatest psykers we know of, and horus never stood a chance

[@NorlandKalgara]

the sisters of silence is there as well, besides the costodes. They are blanks, which nullify psychic powers.

[@sorufa888]

Each primarch has psychic abilities. Russ and the Wolves are resistant to corruption. That’s why the Wulfen don’t fall to chaos despite losing their sense of self and becoming a beast, they are sacrificing humanity for loyalty. And the runes and wolf talismans they have aren’t just for show. On the Tabletop, any SW unit can deny psychic powers using the rune stones and talismans, helping ward against the dangers of chaos

[@erichoughton4128]

That’s what i love about the Lion he doesn’t allow himself the luxury of guilt.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

I have been waiting to see this about Russ after he filings out he was lied to.

[@bobydigital2450]

And in the end he pretend he didn't do anything wrong.

[@jimmymchugh2954]

Is it ever explained why the space wolves rune priests were allowed to keep using their powers after the edict?

[@Chris-et2fm]

They thought they were channeling their fursonas rather than the warp 🥴

[@dac314]

Because nobody could tell the Wolves not to.

[@jimmymchugh2954]

@@dac314 the emperor could’ve, malcador possibly

[@henryviiifake8244]

"It's not psychic, I swear. 🥴"

[@Subject_Keter]

They would ignore you if nice and punch you in the gut otherwise or throw their mugs at your head.

[@ambushbob5383]

They talked AT Magnus not TO him, hell Russ just assumed that dude was an agent of Magnus. Russ knew so little of Magnus other than sorcery bad.

[@benives254]

I like peeks behind Russ' barbarian facade

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Russ is one of the best people as a primarch. I am a Lion fan, and the Lion reconciled worth Russ, even sending him a gift of wine. Russ also deeply MOURNED when he thought the Lion was dead. Just because the skjald didn't transmit to Magnus doesn't mean that he wasn't a 1000 Sons agent. Ammon and Ahriman were aware of him as an agent.

[@glandhound]

Kaspar wasa Tzeentch sleeper, The Sons had nothing to do with it.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@glandhound, they Sons admitted back on Terra that they had met with Kaspar and the rune priest had tracked the corruption back to that point. The meeting on Nikea exposes how the Legions wouldn't think twice about using a lifetime spy, planted early. Ammon knew. Ahriman knew. In the later novel about the gathering of Magnus' fragments, they go back over the exact scenario.

[@Eleolius]

I disagree. Russ slaughters civilians and surrendering auxilia. Magnus wasn't offering -any- resistance, yet he orders orbital strikes. No, the message was just a pathetic savage trying to justify the slaughter he truly wanted: Actions speak louder than words. And Russ was a traitor to all honor and humanity first. He didn't try a proper phone call, or a classic messenger. He could have landed and TALKED. He intentionally avoided basic communication out of bloodthirst and a desire to not just kill or capture Magnus: but to destroy everything Magnus loved first, unecessarily. And then covers his shame with cowardice: Blaming Magnus and his -defensive- actions to try to save his wards, and the innocent lives Russ was senselessly and pointlessly wasting. At the Emperor's full endorsement and knowledge. You don't send an executioner to make an arrest. Unless you are subhumanly unintelligent. So the Emperor is an idiot or malevolent here outright. Russ was nothing more than an honorless, tactless, brutish liar. Just an animal pretending to be anything more.

[@peterlepper5199]

THANK YOU. There isn't another Legion I dislike more than the Space Wolves. Hypocrites who condemned a Legion for violating an edict that they didn't think applied to themselves (Rune Priests are Psykers, fight me about it), and who criticized the Thousand Sons for the flaw in their gene-seed while secretly harboring literal werewolf mutants. The Wolves *never* respected the Thousand Sons or Magnus. On Aghoru, a Space Wolf captain had the audacity to give orders to Magnus, a Primarch. On Shrike, the Wolves attacked the Thousand Sons because the latter were trying to preserve a local library, and Russ had the nerve to blame the Thousand Sons for defending themselves, after killing an entire Fellowship's worth of telepaths with a psychic howl. "Blood of Fenris is on your hands," he has the audacity to say, as if he personally had not just killed dozens of Thousand Sons. I'll say it again. The Thousand Sons were trying to preserve some local knowledge and culture. The Space Wolves wanted to burn the entire city to ash. Instead of talking about it, the Space Wolves attacked the Thousand Sons, and then got mad when the Thousand Sons fought back. It's clear that the Wolves were blinded by their prejudice and fear, unwilling or unable to see the Thousand Sons as anything but evil warlocks. Everyone gives Magnus and the Thousand Sons a hard time for being "arrogant," but in every interaction between the two Legions the Wolves are far more arrogant than them. What is it but arrogance when a single captain and his retinue land in another Legion's camp, march up to the Primarch with weapons drawn and helmets fastened, and then give him an order as if talking to a suboordinate? What is it but arrogance to believe that your magic is super special and different from everyone else's? What is it but arrogance to be so used to getting your own way that you view someone defending themself against your aggression as an insult? And then Prospero itself... no one sane or righteous would destroy an entire planet without even landing a scout ship first, just because they left you on read. Surely Russ must have realized something was wrong when there was no sign of the Thousand Sons' fleet? When no one from the surface hailed them to ask what they were doing there? Surely he would have sent a few ships down to take a look first before glassing the planet from orbit? But no, he jumped at the chance to destroy the Legion that he hated, and his prejudice wiped the greatest center of learning in the Imperium off the galactic map. For what it's worth, doctors on Prospero could cure cancer with their minds.

[@randomcenturion7264]

Bollocks

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@peterlepper5199 It's a good thing no one important was in need of a good doctor by the end of the Heresy.

[@empireempire3545]

Heartfelt appeal? You mean half-assed? If he really wanted to talk to him, he would do so face to face. There were shittons of things he could try to do once blockading Prospero. The only thing here is that Russ shows how shallow he is - he just wants whatever shitty justification for doing a really, really strategically bad thing. And then he cannot admit it openly to Rogal - that he fucked up and that he got played by Horus like a child. Not that the Emperor wasn't in the fault here too. He could've and SHOULD'VE monitored the situation, what Russ is doing and whatnot. Bringing Magnus back to the Palace would've allowed the manage the throne situation somehow, loosing even all the golden boys AND ALL the defences they had in the network - which were CONSIDERABLE at the time - would be a small price to pay for bringing the Magnus back into the fold. And the 1K Sons would've been much better in the network's defense than the golden boys anyway. This is even openly proven during the siege, when Emps KNOWS that retrieving Magnus is his BEST chance of snatching some kind of victory from the jaws of defeat - too bad he is as always completely incompetent in his diplomacy. And on top of that he should've worded his orders to Russ as non-changeable by anyone. Well that and Magnus was a crybaby and hidden in his tower like an idiot without picking up the calls. But that's a story for another day.

[@Visor3410]

I agree with you although with not picking up calls I don't know. From what I know Russ only attempted to talk to him through this guy who was actually directed by Tzeentch and not Magnus so not a word of what Russ was saying could reach him.

[@henryviiifake8244]

@@Visor3410 Which makes Russ surprisingly idiotic for someone who's supposed to have an IQ way above genius-level (like all his brothers).

[@fumarc4501]

Russ and Magnus are the same. They’re both fools, they both rationalize away their better judgment, and they both assumed the worst in the other.

[@tomdolan9761]

In the case of Magnus and Russ it was more never did they see eye to eyes.

[@alecatnight1540]

Actually, it’s revealed in Fury of Magnus that the guy WAS a spy. Derp.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

A author writing mistake. Stupid but not critical

[@ThomasFishwick]

The thing that is overlooked with Russ is just why he drew the line with regards to how far to go with psychic powers. As a man used to berserk rages in battle he knew that going too far was dangerous. He could instinctively tell that going too deep into the waters of the deep Warp there were monsters. Monsters that were better left undiscovered and certainly un-disturbed. That Magnus didn’t heed these warnings. That in his arrogance he plunged ever deeper… He awoke the Kraken and Russ had no option but to bring Magnus to heel

[@gwilym1991]

Can definitely understand Russ' reluctance given if he killed Magnus (and the Horus Heresy didn't happen) the act would put a barrier between him and ALL his brothers as he'd have willingly or not committed fratricide.

[@nomad2305]

What sucks is that he didn't have to! Fucking Horus changing Russ' orders...

[@randomcenturion7264]

Fucking Horus!

[@MrJara1018]

In Wolfsbane , Russ figures Magnus deserved it and a little boastful he killed him.

[@YouthRightsRadical]

Either Russ was actually the moronic rabid dog he presents himself as, too stupid to see obvious options like sending down an emissary to demand Magnus' surrender in person, or Russ chose genocide despite knowing full well he had other options. It's one or the other.

[@columreddy]

Miss the background music Rho.

[@jamesgordley5000]

In the books, does Russ ever give much of an opinion about Angron? You’d think the “older brother” thing could’ve counted for something there.

[@ryanf4106]

a brother is still a brother. and in people like russes mind; betryal is still betrayal; it dosent matter if you knew or not the only thing that not knowing does is add insult to the injury. you can hate your brother, despise him but at the end of the day he is still your brother. your responcibility and it dosent end because you dont like them.

[@panzermensch1577]

Magnús damned himself, he refused to talk to Russ, he purposely let the attack have its full force. He played the "Oh woe is me". And fucked his world. Could have just came to Terra.

[@TheKarofaar]

That reminds me something in real life.

[@Subject_Keter]

He turned the comms off and shut himself away, Russ came in "I know you dont like me but YOU know this must be done" While Magnus drank lamp oil

[@cuban-being3087]

I think Eribus was the one who got in the way of their communications.

[@Subject_Keter]

@@cuban-being3087 I forget who did it but it was a shitshow either way but at the end of the day. Russ had did what he had to and it bad it happened like that but to his eye.. everything failed to reach magnus so what arw you going to do.

[@bobydigital2450]

Prosperous Deven e were turned down what more I surrender did Russ need? Magnus was ready to be executed Trying to make Russ a victim here is dumb. I prefer the old one that was just a hammer obeying the law. Now he just come off as stupid. Like when he killed all those dark angels because he was too stupid to realize that there was more to the plan than just not shooting the enemy ships

[@____________838]

Real talk here… If that really was Magnus’ agent… Do you think Magnus would have been swayed by Leman’s words?

[@bobydigital2450]

To be fair Magnus didn't really need to be swayed he was waiting for death

[@____________838]

@@bobydigital2450 Which is an odd trait for a son of the Emperor to have. Does that show an undiscussed aspect of the Big E?

[@henrypaleveda7760]

@@____________838 being a perpetual, yes he';s probably felt that before.

[@danielgeorges3048]

No. He would have goaded Russ either way. Pride would still be his downfall

[@brandonvallier4214]

Im definitely gonna say that wasn't an agent of Magnus and was the warp entities manipulating events. I do however think things would have been different if Magnus had heard Russ's words. The only reason I say this is because I just read both The Thousand Sons and Prospero burns and when Aram goes to talk to the "agent" not only do these events not line up between both books but Aram straight up acts unlike himself and gives off demon characteristics even has his face change a bit if I remember that part correct. It was the warp instigating things between Magnus and Russ.

[@trajanfidelis]

I don't think Russ is sorry for destroying Prospero/Magnus, i think he's sorry for being manipulated by Horus

[@Writh811]

Did you not watch the video? The stuff Rho covers comes before Russ even knows Horus has fallen.

[@trajanfidelis]

@@Writh811 excuses to justify his actions after the fact

[@dumbidea1007]

@@Writh811 i agree sound like excus3s

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@Writh811 I don't think it's even excuses to salve his conscience. I think it was a ploy in order to get Prospero to lower its defenses and make the subsequent genocide easier. I expect he thought he was quite clever when his ploy seemingly worked like a charm and he met virtually no resistance until well into the slaughter.

[@Writh811]

@@YouthRightsRadical Right, because so many of the books have had Russ gloating and flaunting about with joy at what happened on Prospero and afterwards he didn't start questioning himself and his purpose while shifting into a more solemn and sentimental state. Nope, he just wanted to kill Magnus and genocide humans because he is a murder maker and the books give us so much evidence after the fact to back you claim like... oh wait there is none and if you read anything with Russ in it afterwards he's in a depressed state.... As I said, Russ went soft after Prospero, it actually broke him and it is the reason that when Russ had the chance to finish Horus he couldn't do it. But there is no actual behavior and tangible evidence of Russ enjoying what happened on Prospero. If that were the case, he would have fallen to Khorne. If there were any joy or vindication for Russ in Prospero there is no way Khorne wouldn't notice that. And yet the Blood God did not seek parley with the Wolf King. If he were more concerned about Horus manipulating him there would have been no hesitation in his killing stroke and Horus would have never made it to Terra.

[@NorlandKalgara]

If going thru the perspective of russ wish to bring magnus back to terra if magnus isnt retaliate is true and honest, why must russ open fire first? Magnus drop the planetary defence to let sw enter prospero. Then he even not hold up a finger when russ, space wolves, sister of silence and custodies obliterate his sons. Where is russ wish to deal this peacefully? Magnus only started retaliate after seeing his sons largely desimated. And for russ to act like his rune priests arent psiker is so hypocritical. Is he playing dumb or what. Pshhh

[@Writh811]

Because Russ was sent to kill Magnus. From Russ's perspective prior to the first shots he pleaded and bared his soul to Magnus for him to surrender. As Rho points out Russ didn't know Magnus never got the message he just thought Magnus was snubbing him. With that in mind, let's say you were told to invade a planet of Space Marine Sorcerers and they're leader seemingly refuses to even talk. Are you gonna give them a chance to start casting spells that will assuredly rip your army to pieces are you gonna get to work and permanently shut that 3rd eye before it has a chance to open. For all Russ knew, Magnus dropped the shield to lure them into some kinda esoteric ritual trap.

[@Subject_Keter]

@@Writh811 Considering the psyker bullcrap you could throw at them, if they dont agree to a surrender you got to strike hard before you get spelled out.

[@psychedashell]

Librarians were a discipline of psyker that was banned. Astropaths, Sanctioned Psykers, Primaris Psykers and a few other schools were perfectly accepted - The Librarius Discipline was banned. Some chapters instantly condemned their Librarians to no more use, some dissolved them into their stand apart but perfectly legit psychic schools. Some brainless twits openly defied the Emperor's ruling at the Council Of Nikea and got their asses kicked for it.

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@Writh811 Yeah, doing precisely as instructed and shutting down the defenses is clearly an act of provocation.

[@Writh811]

@@YouthRightsRadical Yeah because there was zero concern of a possible trap being set for the censure force. You do know that in warfare, if another vessel (an enemy vessel) doesn't reply to hails for response they are assumed hostile. Because tactically speaking, you don't want to put a bunch of your guys on a boat you know nothing about on the chance it may be detonated or a bunch of dudes pop out from fixed positions or while troops are in transit a shot is fired at censure vessel. On initial approach the response is more important than just leaving the front door open. In Russ's situation if he sent everyone down there and Magnus turned out to be doing so huge ritual that would kill or control them, folks would laugh that a Primarch walked into an obvious trap. So no, just having the defenses down with literally no explanation is not actually complying and would/should/was regarded with suspicion.

[@ulziitsogt4283]

Engraving flower on a gun don't make it tool of peaceful. (or UN) Even Magnus pleaded whit Russ it wouldn't changed any ting. Maybe Russ would verbally insult Magnus before burning of Prospero.

[@ragingmoderate6791]

The other part of the burning of Prospero that I thought was stupid was in some books they say Valdor encouraged Russ to follow Horus' orders. It's been said in the lore many times custodes can't really disobey the Emperor. So why did Valdor suddenly think the Big E, or Malcadores orders which we all know come from the Emperor, would be superceded by Horus? Yeah Horus says he got the orders from The Emperor, but still it seems like a stupid thing to put in.

[@sorufa888]

The Emperor made Horus the Warmaster, giving him the authority of Big E in situations like this. To someone who doesn’t know Horus fell, this is as important as if the Emperor himself said it

[@stormraven8484]

Would not a VOX channel demanding to speak with Magnus the Red be a better then speeking to someone that was a unknowing spy (personally I thougth he was Alpha Leagion plant)

[@seansartin8866]

They did. On every frequency.

[@sorufa888]

They tried everything else. That’s why this was so important, it was the last line. Except it was cut a long time ago

[@WarriorNoldor]

Russ's greatest drawback was his arrogance confidence.

[@thejinxtone7069]

I have always had this perspective. Yes Hindsight is 20 20 but Magnus and the 1000 Sons were ultimately right even over the emperor's decree. IK IK Heresy. But the current 40K timeline would not survive without psychers, or even the OVER ENHANCED SUPER PSYCHERS OF THE GREY KNIGHTS. Something about the storyline has always bothered me "Oh MASSIVE LEGION of psychically gifted super soldiers bad, SMALL GROUP of ROIDED UP PSYCHERS *slaps money on the table* GIVE ME THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. The emperors say is final but it is hypocritical in its very nature. TLDR ; Red psychers bad, Grey psychers keep the imperium alive now *face palm*.

[@tonyandbob]

Perhaps the wolf lord isent only trying to help his father but to undo his own mistakes

[@YouthRightsRadical]

If true, that would actually mean more than the empty words spoken here do.

[@randomperson8332]

Me watching at 12:55 that just make me depressed that Magnus didn’t hear it.

[@micaigneous_01]

I've never cared for Russ, long time disliked him. The "mask" of the wolf king might be all I see of him. Loud, proud and always ready to fight. A moment like the pleaded to Magnus is interesting but fruitless in the end because Russ thought that person was Magnus spy and it wasn't. Save for his Legion, maybe, I do not know if Russ was ever not the Wolf king to anyone. (Not been able to read all the novels).

[@ragingmoderate6791]

Re-listening to Prospero burns, 1,000 sons, and Scars over the last week or so and have really been finding the whole burning of Prospero as stupid. In Scars Russ is depressed and sad about doing it. The Emperor is basically manipulated, through Kaspar Hawser, to ban psykers from a daemon pretending to be Amon of the 1,000 Sons. Which is a whole other load of stupid if you ask me. Like no one would have checked to see if Amon was with Magnus or that Amon wouldn't have been arrested and been able to be questioned. Also also Russ trying to speak with Magnus through Kaspar is stupid in my opinion. If he wanted to speak with him he could have easily sent a phone call, because fuck me if I can remember what phone calls are called in universe, or hijack Prosperos vox network and made a planet wide announcement, or gone down with just himself and his honor guard and asked to speak with Magnus in person. I made a comment on a previous video about how Guilliman or Dorn would have been a better cop to send to arrest him, hell even Jaghatai would have been better. This isn't to alleviate Magnus of his stupidity either because all he would have had to do is call up Russ on his space phone and basically tell him he surrenders as long as his sons and the people of Prospero aren't harmed. He was so resigned to being killed though that he allowed his sons and millions of innocent civilians to be killed instead of going to the gallows alone. Anyway why would you send the hangman to do the sheriffs job?

[@Arkantos117]

Magnus definitely spent too much time on /x/

[@gwilym1991]

One thing I wonder if they'll ever resolve is the existence of Rune priests and the spirits of fenris amongst the space wolves. Because bullshit these aren't sorcerers and demons. It really makes them seem like hypocrites but to my knowledge its never really addressed.

[@brianpj5860]

Well although I do respect your opinions and preferences of Russ. I am completely opposed to them, myself. Russ did Magnus dirty, and so as it seems that the karmic roles have reversed His act of censure spilled innocent blood and contributed inForcing Magnus’s apotheosis into demonhood. Which inturn damning his legion with magnus demonic curse of hatred, and millenniums of spiteful targeted conflict. Now the space wolves have to hide their own version of the flesh change (wulfen curse) from the wider imperium, as their gene-seed degrades. While on the opposite side, the 1000 sons have overcome theirs, and are seemingly more powerful than ever prior, with no restraints or sanctions holding them back.

[@Matihood1]

Wait a momemt. So Russ didn't speak directly to Magnus but rather to someone he thought was Magnus's spy? Welp... I guess trying to send a message directly to Tizca was out of the question?

[@seansartin8866]

They tried. A lot. No one picked up the phone. The black book suggests Magnus himself blocked all incoming signals. It's also suggested it was tzeentch

[@Matihood1]

@@seansartin8866 Welp, shit.

[@itsheresy]

This is why I love Russ so much. He is IMO the most human and relatable Primarch

[@theloyalalphalegionary9490]

Man... i wish Magnus was still a loyal Primarch

[@marthlink5015]

Sadly I've never been a fan of Russ mainly because of his inability to see through Horus' guise. If anyone were to sniff out Horus' bullshit and taint to chaos it should've been Russ- who had just literally gotten word from the Emperor to take him ALIVE- now suddenly gotten word to execute him. Now Magnus had essentially made it no easier by not 'attempting' communication and the Emperor also didn't make it clear what magnus had done since he still wants to hide away the inclinations of chaos even AFTER the shit has quite literally hit the fan, but, back to Russ taking a heavy hand turned an ally into an enemy forever. Also... Magnus and him not warning his sons of the consequences caused them to literally start fighting back and for the fighting to get so much worse. The Emperor being stuck on the throne is quite literally now the fault of Russ- since he knew he'd be the ONLY one besides magnus and yo boyz malcador the fucking Hero who warmed up the chair. Russ literally threw Humanity's beacon into the fucking trash- even if said beacon dropped itself dirtily on the floor he should've picked it up, rinsed it off and brought it to the emperor like a good doggy. Magnus made a mistake, but his mistake could've stopped much of the entire horus' heresy and likely alot of the brothers probably wouldn't have sided with Horus~ hell Horus himself might've been saved though that moment he did give himself to chaos. But Russ' failure left them with nothing, scorned enemies of the imperium and his legion. I think if it were Khan or korax they would've investigated more.

[@jtaylor476]

I mean it's Big E fault. Even using your own logic it is still the fault of the Big E.

[@davyjones1335]

What pops into my head after this Vid is, Remember Magnus down the line is even given that Offer from the Big E meaning in both instances lets say Russ didnt kill all the Thousand Sons and HAD brought Magnus back to to face the big E would the big E not have just given Magnus the same Offer? Kill his legion and given a new one? In bought instances I say Magnus would had given the same Answer he would choose his sons over the Imperium. Meaning no matter what Magnus was always going to fall to Choas or at the very least against the Imperium because of the love for his legion no mater how loyal he wanted to be since he puts his sons over all else I guess. Which you again could argue one more Fault of the Emperor.

[@brandonvallier4214]

I just read Thousand sons and prospero burns and Magnus didn't necessarily choose his legion over the imperium. He did choose to continue using the warp/sorcery against the emperor's orders but that's like asking a fish to stop swimming. He only goes to fight the wolves and save his son's after most of prospero and his son's have been destroyed. Till then he just sat in his tower and sulked in fact he did give up but his son's chose to fight the wolves so if they also chose to lay down their arms that would have been it.

[@lobogonzalo4745]

What if the wolf king's sudden departure was not to save rhe allfather but to save magnus ?

[@YouthRightsRadical]

It'd probably be the only way for Russ to get anything resembling redemption.

[@patrickfletcher7067]

I have very conflicting feelings when it comes to the Wolf King. I place loyalty at the very highest of virtues. I even place it above honor. And there can be no doubt that Russ is completely and utterly loyal to the Emperor.He is fearless, resilient, and honorable as well. But the consequences of his actions. I can't think of a loyalist Primarch who inflicted more harm on the imperium than Leaman Russ. Even if those actions were unintentional. If he had gone to Prospero with the intent of just bringing Magnus back to the Emperor, his actions I believe went contrary to that. Instead of having the most powerful psychic legion fighting for the Emperor, they were pretty much sidelined by the Burning of Prospero. Then instead of staying put on Terra with his entire legion, he went to go and kill Horus. When he had the chance to kill him, he couldn't pull the trigger. Because he left and failed in his mission, he was now completely cut off from Terra. I believe with Magnus psychic powers, he would have had a great chance to get his legion onto Terra and help defend it. And if Russ had done his duty and stayed on Terra instead of doing things his way, that would have resulted in 5 full legion defending Terra. In my opinion the Emperor would still be walking the galaxy today with his 10 loyal sons. Well make that 9 loyal sons. Ferrus still would have died but the Angel would not have had to sacrifice himself. But who knows, maybe the Wolf King will redeem both himself and Magnus when he returns.

[@rankcolour8780]

I can think of one - Magnus. Destroying humanities one chance at travelling the stars free of the risk of chaos. Cursing the Emperor to sit on his throne to stop warp hell spilling out and destroying Terra instead of leading the defence of Terra Further forcing the perpetual Emperor to sit on the throne after his "death" to prevent the aforementioned warp tide from destroying all hope for 10,000 years meaning the Imperium was bereft of his direct supervision and descended into the hellscape it now is. Edit: and lest we forget as a result of all this, Magnus causes his own physical death as a result. Considering he was trying to help Magnus did a real good job of dooming the Galaxy and himself.

[@bobydigital2450]

Magnus isn't a loyalist. Plus he didn't really doomed the emperor. He bound him but could have been a replacement. Russ by burning props Pero doomed the emperor of mankind to the throne

[@rankcolour8780]

@@bobydigital2450 he was when he did all the above. It was after all those sequential cock ups and having his body destroyed by Russ that he flipped to the changer of ways.

[@glandhound]

Prospero Burns & Thousand Sons are the books people need to read before saying anything about what happened between Russ and Magnus. At least get the audiobooks...

[@slevinlaine]

Yup.

[@andrewwightman8066]

I think Magnus got a shit hand delt to him from the start he trys to tell the big E that shit is going down what does he get for his trouble his planet burned and branded a trator? Fuck ya then big E was only trying to help .lol

[@macshadow1150]

Whole guilt shoud go to the Emperor. If he sent only Valador to deal with this matter he could deal with it in completly diffrent way. Weebway was lost, but Magnus wasnt, but when Emperor simply told him to abondon his own sons, it was end.

[@sylvaingaudin3905]

👍

[@Subject_Keter]

I think Russ wanted to bring Magnus bsck to be properly judged by the Emperor after weighing all the fact instead of the cold justice of the grave but Magnus felt guilty for it and turned the comms off leading to a casade where one action lead the other to do a action bringing on the Siege. Russ i think could of killed Magnus but he wanted to bring him back alive but Magnys fought with all his might and well.. how are you going to put down someone who legit thinks you are going to axe them. It was unintented but it was pretty much forced.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I see people get this point wrong so often; No, Horus didn't change the order to Russ!!! Horus didn't have the authority to change a single letter in an order by the Emperor, and his wasn't dumb enough to try. What Horus did, was to send a special emissary to the mustering of the Punishment-fleet. This emissary told Russ exactly was Magnus had done, and presenting it in the most negative light. Big E didn't give Russ the full picture of why Magnus had to be brought in, so all Horus had to do was say; "You were right, Magnus is warp-corrupted, did great damage and will never come in peacefully, you better be prepared to kill him." And Russ with his hatred for Magnus was more that willing to buy that!

[@carlbrittain1993]

See, you said "be prepared to kill him". Well, when your brother doesn't answer your hails and his legion is preparing for a fight, well, it's understandable that he went the way he did. Especially when he's been espousing the dangers of psykers for years and was just proven right

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@carlbrittain1993 ahh, but you made an error in chronology there my friend. You are right, that no one on Prospero answered any communications from Valdor or Russ (Magnus effectively blocked the entire planet) But the Thousands Sons was very clearly not on a war footing. Their fleet was away, their orbital defences powered down, their human forces not mobilised and the Legion in full civilian mode. This is something Russ could clearly see! He gained void-superiority without opposition and if not for a passive shield, Tisca would have been glassed in first attack. Russ found a tense but nonviolent situation, and ultimately struck first with Exterminatus force!

[@texasallstar6969]

It must have been so funny for the chaos gods. To watch this idiot wolf boi, murder the emperors best weapons against chaos. A legion of scholars who can easily defeat demons, now turned to their side. like that must have made all 4 laugh their asses off.

[@bobydigital2450]

Probably not khorn

[@Subject_Keter]

Khrone would probably be laughing his ass off as his third pick legion just maws tzeentch prized action figures up.

[@godKiller.369]

Silly Magnus.. poring over books like that all the time will lead to serious back pain!

[@dragothromak6261]

Angron>Russ

[@henrypaleveda7760]

eh, I think it's kind of a strange comparison. Angron/magnus is probably a more productive one.

[@carlbrittain1993]

Only if you're a warp-addled fool

[@dragothromak6261]

@@carlbrittain1993 heh heh heh

[@brandonvallier4214]

The biggest difference between the wolves and thousand sons is how they view knowledge. Thousand sons as you say seek knowledge above all else while in the book Prospero Burns you learn that the wolves believe that seeking knowledge can be dangerous. Not that they are stupid because they aren't but they aren't ignorant to the concept that some things are better off not known.

[@TheAgentmigs]

I dont buy it...Russ having love for his brother and regret for Prospero? Oh please.

[@johnnyblaze4053]

This video has lessened the dislike I have russ a bit. Every primarch has something about them we don't like or can't stand and he does have some redeeming qualities I will admit.

[@Wolf-mv9sq]

Mad turn of events. Not the best of Russ's storylines. It discredits probably the only Imperial victory of the war.

[@Nah_Bohdi]

The Lion is a traitor to me. >:C

[@chickenmonger123]

Ahh. Space Wolfs apologist. Nice. Russ is a big dumb hypocrite. And Magnus is a gifted and abandoned genius. And they had to make Magnus really stupid to let Russ touch him. And they had to make Russ a foolish and easily commanded border collie to make him do what he did. He’s never been that before. He is here. They had to make Magnus indecisive and willing to watch his world burn, then suddenly not. Worse they had to make the Emperor really really reallly really dumb.

[@Subject_Keter]

Forst

[@CaptainRhodes]

He should feel guilty, he created an enemy were there was none. Loyal Magnus best Magnus and best primarch.

[@Doomseer]

Honestly if I had been Magnus after having my back broken I would of accepted death by Russ's hand but before the killing blow I would telepathically said to him that no matter what I love you brother and only ever wished to be accepted by you and our brothers for who I am but in the end my arrogance indeed surpassed my love when I went against our father's will and in so doing unwittingly destroyed his great work.. May you forgive me and may you forgive yourself for what you are about to do.

[@Wolf-mv9sq]

Terribley overdone story Arc. Far to emo

[@Addidvi]

second