THE EMPEROR FORGIVES KONRAD CURZE?

Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we are discussing one of the most mysterious moments in all the Warhammer 40,000 and Horus Heresy lore... Did the Emperor communicate with his son, Konrad Curze. Primarch of the Night Lords... One last time before his end?
Spoiler warning to begin, the events we are discussing today are from the Horus Heresy Primarch series novel: "Konrad Curze, The Night Haunter" By Guy Hayley. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first. As that's the best way to enjoy the lore, for yourself! Not only that, we help to support the great Games Workshop and Black Library. Because without them, we don't have this amazing lore to talk about! Link: www.blacklibrary.com/the-horu...
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Music belongs to Wolf Lord Rho.

[@BrunofanofK]

The emperor's view of fatherhood comes from 10k B.C., his sons ARE his property, his tools, his legacies and his pride.

[@dlemon7547]

Not a truer word has been said. I am amazed I didn't think of.

[@divifilius4957]

well......he was from 10k BC lmao

[@gamechanger8908]

Seeing as his views have hardly changed. I'd say he's the most conservative wacko dad ever.

[@divifilius4957]

@@gamechanger8908 pretty fair father outside how he handled angron

[@tomisdead]

imagine the return of a loyal Konrad "Abaddon! I am your Judgement! We have come for you!" that would be literally amazing lol

[@shethek1733]

I still wish that crazy theory of Vulcan working with Curze to cure him and defeat the Nighthaunter.

[@habitualline-stepper8218]

Haha this would be great. Konrad as a boogeyman trolling the black legion. Abaddon checking under his bed at night

[@davidlewis9346]

I would cream my power armored undies.

[@lumismothdad5123]

Wonder if Zso Sahaal would join a reborn Curz.

[@tomisdead]

@@lumismothdad5123 I can see It, as his whole thing is trying to keep to the teachings of his father, I can see him and returned Curz clearing out the old legion of the more "wayward" elements certainly

[@2guys1cliplol]

Konrad: HEY KIDS WANNA SEE A DEAD BODY! Everyone else: *confused screaming*

[@oualdo94]

The EMPRAH : STOP SCREAMING !!!!

[@paulhuston9991]

Let's go dude

[@colesultemeier9605]

I fucking love you 🤣🤣🤣

[@paulhuston9991]

Let's toss another fat one on the fire, this one is getting a bit low for the time of day

[@darthlazurus4382]

Oh you are just a treat.

[@TheHorreK2]

"The Emperor truly cares about his sons"... well Angron would like a word with you

[@Duppyman695]

Even Guiliman has worked out that the Primarch's were just weapons to Emperor !

[@tonitapola7811]

@@Duppyman695 Well, Angron should had been aborted, he doesnt count.

[@magnusthered4973]

@@tonitapola7811 well looks like we found a major kill watcher

[@sigismunddorn1146]

To be fair the emperor's first words were a lament at what had happened too him, he then spent years trying to figure out how to remove the butcher's nails without killing him.

[@axelNodvon2047]

@@sigismunddorn1146 Well you would lamenting your superweapon being messed up too if you spent decades making and developing it

[@xXSpaceMexicanXx]

gosh...the fact that his voice cracks, the way he holds his book close. He needs his dad.

[@randomcenturion7264]

He needed someone, period. Out of all the Primarchs, he was probably the most alone.

[@leatherjacket9]

Actually i dont think it means much. Depending on the sheer psychic force, the presence of the Emperor could make any of the Primarchs voices crack if he wanted. Or make i so they didnt have a voice at all.

[@MrBoston2512]

@@leatherjacket9 Agreed, he literally made Logar's entire legion kneel before him, and Logar had to literally fight with everything he had to remain standing

[@dalaminaubis7822]

@@randomcenturion7264 Literally though. He raised himself, hunting animals and then people in the shadows to eat. He never found a "family" like the others did. Not a mentor or a father figure or even a friend. He masqueraded as a heartless monster to hide how desperately alone he was, and by the time the crusade found him, he thought he was already too far gone for any of his brothers to accept him, let alone his father.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Or maybe he just needs a throat candy. Those old tomes can be quite mouldy and dusty.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

I hope the Emperor actually forgave him, and it wasn’t just Konrad hallucinating

[@fortheswarmlord3250]

He could smell ozone, which is something that tends to happen only when The Emperor does Emperor stuff, so from my perspective it wasn't an hallucination.

[@doomguy9049]

FortheSwarmlord void shields also give that smell. I think it’s really the emperor.

[@fortheswarmlord3250]

@@doomguy9049 You are absolutely right. Now that you mention it, both void shields and Emperor power seem to keep evil daemonic warp shit away, so there might even be some connection. This just can't be casual.

[@lkvideos7181]

Knowing 40k, there is a 99% chance, he just hallucinated it.

[@fortheswarmlord3250]

@Gareth I understand, but I choose to believe otherwise :( I agree, the book was genius, even the chaotic order the chapters were in helped to create an atmosphere.

[@Nurriek]

I like to think that whenever the Emperor denies being a god, that it is his way of admitting that he makes and has made mistakes. That he is not perfect, as all Gods profess. He's just too proud to admit so, outright. A proud man admitting his faults subtly. As for Curze, he trusted Sanguinius' judgement, for it was most like the Emperor's. Indeed, all of the brothers agreed that Sanguinius was the most like their father in that aura perfection. However, Sanguinius lacked the depth of pride that prevented the Emperor from open self reflection and self doubt. But I digress, Sanguinius came to the conclusion that Curze was not beyond redemption, and I fully believe that even Horus himself would not have been beyond redemption if the Emperor had not abandoned the Crusade, or had made Sanguinius Warmaster. Konrad's madness was only so deep as his willingness to embrace it, and he only embraced it because it made him feel secure. True irony indeed that the Primarch of terror was always so afraid.

[@DudiTheGreat]

Nostramo- a world so dark, even a primarch couldnt escape it.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

I truly believe that it was the Emps that spoke and FORGAVE his one fallen son that needed it most!

[@EchoMirage72]

The one son that needed it most was Lorgar. For without Lorgar there is no heresy, and there's no current Imperial doctrine of the God Emperor.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Echomirage that... Is absolutely true. Except that Lorgar should still institute the Imperial Creed, because of how effective it has proven to be over 10,000+ years of uniting the people and fighting against Chaos corruption.

[@12gagebastis]

one iron lord is typing

[@lioneljonson2339]

As much as I enjoyed breaking his back several times, the Night Haunter stories were some of the most pleasant surprises I have had. His tragic tale was done justice so far, I think Konrad is up my list for the next Primarch Week!

[@Darksmirk1]

Loyalist Konrad would be amazing turn. Maybe his death was in fact a way to restore his sanity and his soul lingers in an Eldar soul stone, ( 40K Theories idea ) waiting to be reborn as a Primarch or Justice.... We can dream.

[@96111thomas]

You will never get loyalist post-human Batman, enjoy female custodes instead.

[@liammcshane7985]

“Illegal Batmen get legally pardoned”

[@emirhaneksioglu4503]

Man that "waits for the voice he'll never hear again" hits really hard.

[@matthewstevenson6604]

I love this passage so much. I love the total ambiguity as to whether or not it's real. I totally agree that the Emperor truly did love his sons. "You have my forgiveness, Konrad. Whether you want it or not." Gives me goosebumps every time.

[@askashik]

Just because the Emperor tells his son that his madness is complete, it can't be the Emperor?!? If I came across my son confessing his sins to a pile of dead bodies crafted to my image, telling him that his madness was complete is a FACT! The Emperor told him nothing but complete truth during this entire video. He willingly chose to become the monster that he is today, but at the same time, he stlll has a chance to turn back and be redeemed by the Emperor if only he CHOOSES to do so. I genuinely believe that this was Emperor. Why? Because he appeared before his other son Roboute Guilliman in a similar overwhelming psychic fashion in a different body as well. He told Konrad what he needed to hear: he told him the bitter truth about why he is in this mess to begin with. He also told him that he was already forgiven, and if he comes back things will be better. The Emperor sounds just like a father talking to his wayward son. That despite your mistakes you still have a home. All you have to do is come back. But the choice, as always, is yours to make. I hope they revisit that Soul Gem. They have a chance to redeem a Primarch who desperately wants it.

[@aitchisondaniel]

Equally, Konrad could genuinely be completely mad, just not stupid. In his madness, he tells himself that truth, which he knows, because that truth is what drives him mad.

[@Damo2690]

I love an unreabile narrator in fiction. We too often just believe what is written to be true and it's great when fiction subverts it

[@Jaghatai_Kahn]

Lets get fabius bile to make a clone of curze and slap that soul stone on him and boom conrads back.

[@leatherjacket9]

It's difficult for wolf lord rho to see the Emperor saying or doing anything but loving and nice things to the Primarchs.

[@Damo2690]

@@leatherjacket9 I like it when the emperor shows his lack of Humanity

[@empireempire3545]

Curze made a statue of the emperor out of corpses? I'd say this is very fair and accurate representation of THE CORPSE GOD FUELLED BY DEATH OF A THOUSAND OF HIS WORSHIPPERS EVERY DAY.

[@R0230R]

He never asked for this(it's Horus's and Lorgar's fault) and sadly it's a necessary cruelty, without the Astronomicon the Imperium will fall and in turn Humanity...

[@empireempire3545]

@Tom The Terrible Consider this: lies of imperial propaganda.

[@informationyes]

You have to consider how untrained psychers pose a real and serious threat to everyone around them and The vast majority of psykers in the Imperium are deemed too unstable to train and too weak to resist the corruption the Warp can spew into their unprotected minds, what's even more horrible than them being sacrificed to the golden throne is the genocide of them happening for no purpose other than to just get rid of them, but that's the reality in a grimdark setting

[@Jaghatai_Kahn]

@Nathan Pulbrook "a symbiotic relationship between chaos and humanity?" I don't see that happening, chaos always wants more much like the saying 'give an inch, and they'll take a mile Besides chaos already has what it wants, a galaxy sized perpetual war that provides an endless feast.

[@Brakvash]

*The Black Fleet wishes to know your auspex coordinates*

[@Lord_Inquisitor_Ignis]

I see a primarch video from Rho I click faster than the glorious hawk boys sword slash

[@Marqui91]

False, nothing is faster than glorious hawk boi angry slash

[@melvixen1943]

@@Marqui91 Nod even da Red speed-boy?

[@Marqui91]

@@melvixen1943 he's really fast when he's angry or... Just always

[@dogalrorn]

I am early? Time to fortify.

[@MrBoston2512]

Need more guns, my lord.

[@Osiferheheh]

Guns you shall have my son.

[@Morg]

nice

[@chipman1589]

Father, we are running out of fortification materials. *We shall use the bodies next.*

[@K1NKYN1NJA]

yeeeees

[@jimminey-fooking-cricket4903]

That bit about death confirms Kurze can come back with the night crown and the Captain that has it.

[@GreatChickenGod]

if Curze's soul is in fact trapped within the gem of his crown, he may come back as a loyalist. it could be said that his soul could have been loyal, while his mind wasn't

[@danmorris5498]

no, If his soul is trapped in the ruby he should stay chaos as it makes the story of him so much more sad and tragic

[@GreatChickenGod]

@@danmorris5498 he didn't fall to chaos though. he was just a traitor. he wasn't influenced by the dark gods

[@mephistoblackhearted7506]

@@GreatChickenGod or was he? Chaos can be subtle. And we don't need a Corax 2.0.

[@ianharrison5758]

@@mephistoblackhearted7506 Konrad detests chaos. At his core, beyond his insanity is a loyal son with potentially the most defined sense of right and wrong of all the primarchs. He wanted nothing to do with chaos, he left the imperium as a judgement of the emperor in a way. Basically to say “how dare you censor me for acting the way you designed me to” If Konrad wasn’t lost in his insanity, he wouldn’t have been a Corax 2.0. Corax is vengeance given form. Konrad is absolute judgement and justice. Same way Angron would not have fallen to chaos without the nails, Konrad would have been loyal to the end if his mind had been stable. It wasn’t chaos that ruined him, it was his own mind.

[@EmperorNortonII]

@@mephistoblackhearted7506 It's easy to make Konrad not Corax. Just don't let konrad spend a year fucking crying to himself in a tower.

[@OGHaloSpartanII]

Fun fact: if it wasn’t for Conrad Curze breaking the ruin storm, Sanguinius, Guilliman and The lion, they wouldn’t have been able to reinforce Terra, yet they call the night haunter a monster and a traitor.

[@Alpharius708]

i Cato Sicarius can tell you the future if we had met in combat .... he would won, simple no doubt

[@Nugnugnug]

You, Cato Sicarius, have bad grammar.

[@Alpharius708]

I Cato Sicarius agree

[@matthewjenks9490]

I cast fist

[@Alpharius708]

Owwwww I Cato Siicarius can’t feel my teeth

[@Fatties09]

Cato Sicarius, as Cato Sicarius you should be ashamed that Cato Sicarius has bad grammer. Cato Sicarius.

[@celticfox]

One of my favorite Legions, and Primarchs. Definitely enjoyed the book but getting to hear it again is just as good. Keep up the great work mate!

[@tambletrack4798]

Murderous psychic lunatic has a better relationship with his dad than me now that is some bs

[@snoox27]

Same here

[@GruwskiTheDogski]

The questions now remains. Is Curze the Raptor God? Is Curze still "alive" within the soul gem of his circlet helmet? Could the Night Haunter ever one day return from death? - (Read the Lord of the Night novel) Was Curze's death planned ? Was it mean't to happen or was it a final judgement of his inner struggles? Those are the questions I truly wished answered.

[@azuredystopia3751]

All yes. In my fevered imagination.

[@cgavin1]

Konrad Curze is dead. Mos definitely. Night Haunter though ...

[@paulhuston9991]

Those who act as if the world is against them, usually find themselves correct in time.

[@melvixen1943]

Given that demons can be bound to weapons (like drachnyen) its possible. Demon Fulgrim presented a demon-cursed crown to Robute so there is a precedence. Soooo if the nighthaunter/Curce is bound to that band he could posses its wearer. Maybe even in a way like Lucius the eternal.

[@GruwskiTheDogski]

@@cgavin1 But we don't know that now do we? Besides the fact that a Night Lord Marine (No spoiler) has the very crown with the blazing soul gem on him.

[@bulwyf2572]

I do believe that was the Emperor talking to his son one last time. I also know from the Lord of the Night novel that Curze's soul is safe in the spirit stone in the Corona Nox crown. All he needs to come back is a Night Lord to don the crown, Curze's soul takes over and warps the body and we have either a loyalist Curze trying to redeem himself or the Night Haunter, a demon primarch that is basically the god of fear. My bet would be GW would bring him back as the latter.

[@mephistoblackhearted7506]

The latter would be interesting if done right. The former would be an imperial fanfic.

[@adrien9075]

I liked Curze book, I was really gutted when he left the dude he (half) spared on the vessel, because he was looking deep down in the Konrad caracter and was the mirror image of what curze was, a broken and empty shell, sucked of all his humanity. And when he left him to be butchered in front of the gates Konrad knew exactly why his legion was lost because he was really innocent but butchered anyway by murderers who didnt deserve the title of judges nor the title of humans.

[@michaelhowell2326]

I've never bought in to the theory that the Emperor only thought of the Primarchs as tools. He did love them and continues to do so now. In the 10k years since His ascendancy to the Golden Throne He has become fractured and spread thin to protect the faithful, but He loves his sons just as a farmer with many children would. The children are there to help on the farm, but they are loved.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

That book was an amazing portrail of Konrad and his misbegotten Children. And as a bonus it matches up well with ADB's nightlords trilogy!

[@PhilipAlexanderHassialis]

Yeap, it prepares the ground for the Soul Hunter. Also, what a nice trilogy that was - it elevated Night Lords a lot.

[@KaiserAfini]

6:40 Is it ironic ? How could he be so good at instilling fear without having a deep understanding of it ? Psychology and experimentation would only get him so far, it was his failing composure the mask that hid the fear within when it was projected without. When those emotions build and are not named, externalized, understood and dealth with, they take on a life of their own: The Night Haunter.

[@conan2096]

magnus would totally have remained loyal. he was forced to turn to chaos in order to survive russ' kiilling spree.

[@thecommentguy9380]

Wouldn't have turned if it wasnt for fucking Horus

[@conan2096]

@@thecommentguy9380 in in turn horus wouldnt have turned if it wasnt for lorgar and erebus

[@auugh43546]

@@conan2096 erebus would've never turned if an enemy killed him early on in the great crusade with a chainsword in the back

[@conan2096]

@@auugh43546 there are ork snipers everywhere, you never know when one will take out the entire word bearers legion.

[@wojScibor]

Brilliantly done! Konrad Kurze is such an interesting and multidimensional character. His wounded child created a doom creature who was incapable of feeling. The Night Haunter became a manifestation of his pain.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

I love this dialogue. It fits well with Saturnine and the description of the Emperor. I see this as the Emperor, not a figment. This is the voice of the Emperor meeting Curze where he is.

[@kelman727]

How does that book describe him?

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@kelman727, who? Curze or the Emperor?

[@wanderingpaws3111]

"Son, please stop whining. Man and here I thought I made Corax too emo."

[@nebulaswirl]

I really vibe with Curze and the belief that you're fated to be a monster, hated and alone. All stemming from a few (Quite large mistakes)

[@adeptuscole4675]

I feel like the emperors first line of his madness being complete being a fatherly jab, it does feel like him speaking to Konrad and the sadness of his words . Konrad is my favorite renegade , and pulled to the tragic decent to darkness of his legion . I can remember first seeing and loving their armour , then their story , my second is Magnus and the thousand sons, but listening to you has gave me such an insight into the not so clear path to damnation , and thank you .

[@power_SERG]

Man, as someone that did not grow up with their parents, this one hits me real hard. I had no idea that this was who Konrad was...

[@layzboy81]

I can't help but imagine what the 40k universe would have been if the primarchs were never taken; and were raised by the Emperor and Malcador. Makes me wonder what each primarchs role would have been aside from being Generals.

[@Duppyman695]

The different planets that the Primarch's were raised on shaped there characters, Im sure if the scattering never happend it would of been bad for some of them !

[@LaughTalePainting]

I believe it's really the God-Emperor, I got so teared up reading this and then hearing you recollect it here I also still think that if Sanguinius had delivered Konrad to the Emperor, that he could have helped him...

[@PatienceKiss]

When the Emperor possessed Curze's flesh mammet and spoke to him I was blown away, it was incredibly emotional to hear the Emperor manifest and tell Curze how he felt. Emps was being worshipped by this point and had presence in the warp, Curze had incredible psycher potential, provided a sizeable blood sacrifice in the room, and built an accurate simulacra. I see no reason to believe the Emperor couldn't manifest a shard of his consciousness, similarly to how he aids the faithful in battle. The weirder stuff being said is probably Konrad influencing the being, idk

[@jackodd8284]

Best scene in 40k. Emps breaking the rules to go tell his son to chill the fuck out and wait for the next round. Like a hockey coach telling the goon he has to go in the timeout box of death. But also, saying that all his sons are welcome back after a rinse cycle in the warp. What a bro.

[@ssjwes]

We always have a choice. "I had no choice" is just an excuse.

[@StrixNebulosa_mk1]

This is my single favorite passage in all of warhammer lore. I love it.

[@Nobahdee]

This reminded me of arguments I would have with my father as a child or young man. Made me tear up a bit.

[@FoundingChambers]

Thanks Wolf! Got my daily dose of 40k lore this morning always makes my day!!!!

[@QenaitheCustodianGuard]

Nice that you bring up the passage from "valdor:birth of the imperium" as I find that to be one of the most interesting passages in all of the 40k novels I have read thus far (and I will admit I have consumed alot). The way malcador ridicules what the emperor does says more about malcador than it does the emperor in my opinion.

[@BladeMaster117]

Now we really need the scene where Sanguinius fights/talks to Curze for the last time

[@MrNRAfan91]

@BladeMaster117 WLR made a video on that a little while ago, great vid

[@BladeMaster117]

@@MrNRAfan91 the version he read is either not the one I am talking about or they retconed stuff. In the one I am talking about he is supposed to tell him that he had seen a futre that the Emporer actually would have forgiven him, but it somehow would have lead to Sanguinius falling to Chaos and that he knowingly chooses to face Horus and die for the sake of the futrue of mankind.

[@InJusticeWon]

The Emperor of Old, the one who could walk with humanity and spend time remembering their struggles, he's the one who loved his primarchs as true sons. Now the master of mankind whom sits upon the golden throne might still view them as his children but he's also been forced to watch all of his work, all of the Imperium slowly deteriorate into the very thing he abhorred. That being said, I personally think he views them as his sons because he seemed to already have orders ready for Roboute upon his return, as if he'd been awaiting the return of a primarch to finally begin restoring the Imperium.

[@monkeylugz]

Awesome job as always WLR many thanks amigo :)

[@Nemusplanta]

one of the saddest moments whit primarchs you can really feel curzes despare,rage and regret for hes betrayal

[@ACS405]

Konrad: Father is that really you?..... THE CORPSE EMPEROR!?!?

[@yarran3511]

Of the Primarchs Series this is defiently the best emperor-be-damned book till now! And again it is Guy Haley... I really love his books ^^ Serious read this book!

[@tauronicodemus362]

Yeah, this was definitely my favorite.

[@chaptermasterd9362]

What a good piece of lore. Thank you Rho

[@davidlewis9346]

Dude, your videos legit get me excited. Every time a new video pops up I’m like a kid going to McDonald’s. Well done good sir, well done!

[@InkTongue]

I think we might see a "loyalist" konrad I have my reasons but I'll say this, nobody ever gets what they want in 40k and konrad wanted to die.

[@markogilja4994]

Last time I was this early Curze was still taking his schizophrenia meds

[@ukaszbiaek6641]

great work, as always

[@henz3458]

Konrad was forgiven but he himself don't believe he deserve one thus his denial of the emperor's love to him. Just like a rebellious teenage boy, he just want to prove he is loved by his father but his actions make him so neglective of the possibility of it. He is lost and confused, torn between the contradictions of what he wanted to what he did. Such a tragic persona.

[@mycommentpwnz]

I love 40k because I find so many TRUE LIFE LESSONS in the stories: From this, I realized that the few beliefs/ motivations/desires we get to CHOOSE, we should choose wisely.

[@calumdeighton]

Ave Dominus Noctis. I remember reading the Primarch book, the Special Edition one when I got it. And the point you make at the end with Kurze crying before his father, that just whooshed over my mind as I was to engaged to really pick up on the detail. Sometimes its hard to tell were Kurze begins and NightHaunter starts. Still feel sad about his final fate, and life before that. Really do wonder what Kurze would have been if he were loyal, and not so broken. Yes I've seen Arch's theory video on this and him being a satire batman is not good enough. He's not Batman, the end.

[@richardvaldes3959]

Our father was lost at this point. He had fallen to the lies of tzennch

[@calumdeighton]

@@richardvaldes3959 Agreed

[@Judge_of_Anubis05]

I'm starting to think that any emotions that involves regret and shame are the only ones that give 40k characters that are not the Emperor any real willpower to defy Chaos to near completion or at least show that thier former selves are still alive and may have a chance to deny chaos in thier final moments

[@johnnythedark3090]

This whole thing was a vision of the future, after emperror resurection

[@SoulCrusherEx]

Wow... this guy is beyond broken :o

[@JohnTandy74]

Brilliant!! As usual x

[@dethem]

I think of this as all in konrad's head from what I have seen is that the emperor was to detached from humanity to have those feeling and the emperor used his words to manipulate people and didn't care who died along the ways as long as his goals were met

[@TheVirtue01]

I read the book and was thoroughly enjoying it. And when i got to this part, i damn nearly cried. First and only time a 40k book has had that effect.

[@MrMysticphantom]

I was waiting for you to cover this....

[@mobiusZero2]

I feel bad him. He doesn't have the love from any parent because he was alone from the start

[@tylernelson2218]

Ah good to see another vid

[@alanaspinall7147]

Wolf lord, good as ever😊

[@patrickmorton7343]

Given the context, I think that this was one of the most powerful parts of any books that I've ever read. Certainly a rollercoaster of emotions.

[@NominalInterest]

Love ya, Rho 💛

[@thomasjefferson5227]

His book was great! I loved it.

[@Ryuzakku]

Your statement bring upon a good question. If Purturabo was truly as devoted to the Emperor as he was when they first met, when he began feeling any sort of doubts, prior to his exterminatus of Olympia, why didn't he visit Terra? Surely he would've been able to have an audience with his father.

[@TheSeanoops]

Right now the sky above me is dark and grey, rain and wind beating the earth and bending trees. With thunderous booms breaking up the otherwise uniform sounds of the scene. Fitting.

[@Cozmo1090]

This audiobook was awesome.

[@bubger]

I really want a return of Konrad, he's too interesting of a wildcard to be lost.

[@Shotta0202]

I believe this was the emperor talking to him as well as the night haunter at once.

[@adutchman1403]

Arch did a great video on a loyalist konrad kurz with some amazing art

[@akiramasashi9317]

I don't think this was the Emperor, but simply Konrad's innate psychic powers manifesting itself in what he wishes for more deeply than anything else.

[@akiramasashi9317]

@Zackary Kozik True, but when you truly examine this conversation, it's so wishful and so nearly perfect with only those mild and subtle self-loathing twists on it that only Konrad's mind could conjure, like the Emperor calling Konrad's madness complete and calling him insane. The Emperor would never say that out loud, much less admit it to the man himself.

[@lorgaraurelian3392]

Konrad needs to be revived to reunite his Legion and remake it in his image. To stalk the galaxy and punish the wicked as he was meant to do.

[@ciaran222]

Konrad would return loyalist, witness that Corax has ascended into the ultimate loyalist shadow demon that he always dreamed of being and return to chaos in a tantrum.

[@forgefartherloki6585]

Could you cover Vulkan as a youth from the book old earth? I think it really illistrates the primarch he would grow to be

[@Frosty-kz4om]

Surely this is all in Kurze's head. I can't imagine the Emperor not being a fatalist.

[@TheSMC1988]

This is an incredibly touching interaction. Even if it was Curze talking to himself, this is MY Emperor. "You have my forgiveness, weither you want it or not."

[@thetalon100]

Loved this vid, especially since there is potentially a way Curze could be about in the Lore: the Corona Nox. The Corona Nox was worn by the Night Haunter quite frequently, and was known to possess a singular red jewel that is eerily similar to a soul stone. There's a slew of books that talk about an Inquisitor seeking the Corona Nox alongside a repentant (?) Night Lord, and if they found it, Curze's soul could essentially possess his son's body. Now whether he'd have realized all the errors of his ways or if he'd still be batshit insane is a total shot in the dark, BUT for the sake of speculation we'll say his death was somehow the cure for his insanity (because the Emperor knows all the answers). Since the Emperor (?) alluded to the fact that even the missing Primarchs could be resurrected, and the fact that he DID resurrect Vulkan, it's quite possible the Emperor could do the very same with Curze. That, however, is a very taxing thing even when you aren't on holy life support, so a more active Emperor would be needed. Good job again, Rho! Always enjoy watching your stuff :)

[@glyssvictarion4387]

As a father, I have no doubt the Emperor forgave him... there is no sin great enough to absolve that connection, or wash away that love. On that note, I always believed the act of having to destroy Horus is what broke the Emperor, not his wounds.

[@4hire565]

So many sons can come back to the light!! Konrad, Magnus (Blood Ravens Primarch in my opinion) and A couple of others.

[@tigermunky]

Nighthaunter was a really good book. I'd recommend it to anyone who hasn't already read it. I'd say it would be my favourite if not for 'Valdor', which is, in my opinion, the best in the series.

[@jonharper8963]

Ahhh the tragedy of Curze. If only the emperor put that much effort to talk to and understand his son to begin with, it could have all turned out different...

[@mgtowdadYouTubeSucksCoxks]

It never occurred to me that if he had the get a future site. And he could see the future. But only parts of it. And in the past he saw the emperor assassinating him, hypothetically because he was not the one doing it, but in his vision if he saw that... And only that perspective... Ignoring all these decisions leading up to it that are all Guided by his own vision... It's such a weird cycle or Circle?

[@darklordjsmith]

Hail Great Wolf Lord Rho, i just read the story Ashes of Prospero. There a good sense where the Lukas the Trickster distracted the demon Primarch Magnus. It a great sense and u should look into it

[@avengingangel]

The only times I've seen the Emperor refer to the Primarchs as just tools was Master of Mankind, when he was talking with Arkhan Land, and in scattered places within 40k. Both times make sense though: Land was Mechanicus and isn't really human in how he was created or treated by his creators whike the Emperor of 40k sacrificed his humanity to give himself the willpower to kill Horus.

[@fedupN]

I blame ADB. Talented fellow but the dude CANNOT write good Loyalists (even with Spear of the Emperor) and has some SERIOUS daddy issues.

[@JoelMRyan]

such a great scene

[@svagglaorde4387]

Korad builds statue of the Emperor made out of corpses. The faithful loyalist mutant abominations from Daemonculaba liked that.

[@KaiserAfini]

There is a third possible option. Malcador and the Emperor communicated perfectly due to how power and experienced psykkers they were. But most of all, due to a deep understanding of each other. So much like an astropathic message, it could be mistranslated by a mind so unfamiliar with the Emperor that it was surprised to even hear his voice.

[@kaptenbear1395]

Konrad Curze is such an amazing written character. The Primarch who did not betray the Emperor to join Chaos, he betrayed the Emperor because he couldn't handle what his visions showed him, and was convinced nothing could be done to stop them, and fell mad and insane by his visions. And the fact that Lion slapped him silly a few times, imagine, Konrad is considered to be one of the best fighting Primarchs, and Lion swings his sword so fast, that even Konrad fails to comprehend it. And when he speaks with the Emperor before his death, ah

[@nicholascerillo4000]

All of the primarchs have latent psychic power right? What I think just happened was that Konrad’s vision was a result of his madness, rather than the empower, but his hallucination manifested as an actual psychic event.

[@allanwink8695]

In my headcannon Curze was speaking either to Tzeentch or an agent of Tzeentch here and not the emperor. This was a final torment from the chaos god to drive Curze to his own death and conclude a well-executed scheme. Curze’s death is preferable to his service because Tzeentch had foreseen that Curze’s sadism would eventually lead him into serving Slaanesh if he lived. Thus, with Curze’s final thought that fate is inescapable or that he freely chooses to die this way, he is really being manipulated into allowing himself to die.

[@mattbarnes9296]

Ahhhh its like an itch thats finally been scratched!

[@arturdobosz1999]

Returned Roboute Guilliman: So, Father, do you remember how you told Konrad, that we are all your sons? Emperor: Aye, about that "son" part Number XIII....