THE PERFECTION OF FULGRIM! HIS RELATIONS WITH THE PRIMARCHS

[@Iceisnice1]

I honestly think Fulgrim and the Khan could have gained mutual respect for each other if they actually had that duel between them. Regardless of who would win, Fulgrim would see that he has something to learn from the Khan, and Jaghatai would see that Fulgrim's not all talk, and that his mask of a spoiled, preening nobleman is just that - a mask. One that hides a better man than Jaghatai thought.

[@bobjohnson1633]

Fulgrim wanted to betray the empire to chaos. He's trash

[@aguspuig6615]

that would be amazing to see. But im scared that they would just write it as ''The Khan spews badass one liners and Fulgrim gets mad like hes a ten year old'' and leave it at that

[@senorsuave]

​@@aguspuig6615well that's already the status quo so *shrug*. Then again his most recent disinterested losing effort in saturnine doesn't give much faith either. Everybody treats that as a 100% Dorn win, with even Siggy coming out better for the meeting.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

​@@aguspuig6615Now I want Fulgrim to win that hypothetical match. Everyone will be like "great job Khan, now he'll stop bragging about it"

[@Elthenar]

At the tike of that meeting, didn't Fulgrim already have the Laer Blade? If so, he wasn't a better man than Jaghatai thought. In fact was far worse than the Khan could have suspected

[@ceejno7861]

To be fair to Corax, he's easily overstimulated. He grew up in a prison with poor light, stale food, stale air, and little in the way of beauty. He even explains as much in the conversation they're having. So in context, this isn't a dig at Fulgrim, but a commentary on how the visit to Fulgrim's ship affected him. The Pride of the Emperor is a riot of color, sound and smell compared to anything he's used to, and probably felt to Corax a lot like a noisy, crowded carnival feels to me. But hey, at least it got Guilliman to laugh.

[@NemFX]

Fulgrim is my favourite character to read. See, Fulgrim got dealt a bad hand. Everyone else got tens of thousands of troops. Fulgrim? I believe he got hundreds. Something happened, whoops, here's like, a fraction of a percent. And what did he do? Made them the best soldiers in the Imperium. Literally. He DID that. They might not be the strongest, they might not be the best at any one thing, but overall? They are all solidly a cut above. If I had to give them game rules? The EC should have all of their troops statline bumped up to the sergeant one. Fulgrim is TRYING to be perfect. That's his goal. He's a little smug about it, sure, but that's the point. He's the little brother. He is in the shadow of ALL of his brothers. He has to be the underdog who, through his belief and effort, made the perfect legion through that hardship. And he does. He manages to impress Ferrus Manus, one of the, if not THE most dour primarchs. (Dorn Corax and Kurze probably being the only real contenders) He builds a hammer that is STILL in use, over 10k years later. The problem with Fulgrim's perfection, is that it's the monkey's paw version. He is so perfect in sculpting, that his works are literally flawless, and don't feel real. They perfectly capture their subject. Perfectly. No nuance, no stylization, just a perfect stone photograph. His perfection on the battlefield is also a problem. He does whatever the perfect leader is supposed to. He leads from the front, and gets his ship shot down constantly. He has his marines do whatever the perfect leader is supposed to get them to, ignoring the enemies, terrain, etc. in the process, usually getting them in harms way, when a different tactic would work better. They survive because the individual soldiers also strive for perfection, so their skills usually see them through. Usually. The Emperor's Children have the second highest death rate in the Legions. Only second to the World Eaters. PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE. They are only second to the army, where the leader will kill his own guys if they get in his way.

[@Archon3960]

We can thank the selenar gene-cults and Trazyn for that. 😂

[@bobjohnson1633]

He's a traitor. Tons of old tech is used ten thousand years later

[@NemFX]

@@bobjohnson1633 Now he is. But we barely got to see preheresy Fulgrim.

[@ironduke5058]

I love this break down of him because so many misunderstand him, but I'd say it's accurate. Is this all from the top of your head? Also where do you get the stat that they have the 2nd highest death rate? They've pulled some crazy feats, fighting a bigger force with smaller numbers and keeping their men alive while doing it is something they were literally forced to do at the start so it's ingrained in them. Look at Istvaan 3 for example, Emperor's Children were what was keeping those lads alive. I'd think then, that the Iron Warriors are 1st and World Eaters 2nd

[@NemFX]

@@ironduke5058 yeah its from the top of my head. As for the death rate thing, it's less of a concrete fact, but its alluded to a lot. The Emperor's children dont have many books, but they usually have lines in them where it's like "okay there are three thunderhawks, one got shot down losing everyone aboard" well that can be like fifty guys right there, depending on if it's at maximum capacity. In the first Fulgrim book, they describe how empty the ship feels after every battle.

[@cyberhexed5923]

its crazy to see the change from the noble Fulgrim in the earlier stories, to that twisted version in the later

[@ironduke5058]

It kinda hurts lol. I'd exchange a loyalist, early noble Fulgrim for a traitor Jaghtai not gonna lie. He's just too good 😂

[@bombkita]

Nah early noble Fulgrim was always bound to become traitor lol. Same reason Fabius Bile noticed that his Fulgrim clone was bound to fall to chaos eventually. Fulgrim just values perfection over everything else too much, It's the perfect quality for Slaaneshi corruption.@@ironduke5058

[@henrypaleveda7760]

@@ironduke5058 I want to see something with fulgrim as he is now coming to grips with who he was or the realization that he used to be perfect (or enough) even with his flaws and has declined in his pursuit of it.

[@15DEAN1995]

Fulgrims had 200 legionaries? For a chapter that's a massive loss of strength. In the age of legions that's practically extinct

[@KrisToCool]

Perfect Fulgrim will save the Imperium, his perfection is only achieved by seeing his own fall to chaos, clone Fulgrim is the answer!

[@aguspuig6615]

yessssssssssssssssssssssssss

[@anthonycampos7417]

I'm surprised you didn't touch on the relationship between Fulgrim and Konrad. I believe it was Fulgrim that betrayed the trust of Konrad that led him to withdraw away from the rest of them

[@chadstorm92]

One of my favorite videos of yours is when Vulkan bro hugs Dorn, when they reunite on Terra. You’re an awesome narrator, and it’s great you’re doing it again, reading excerpts and breaking them down.

[@samuelmohr563]

You should do a video like this for all of the primarchs

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

I'm interested in how Fulgrim was the teacher of Night Haunter...so did Fulgrim find kinship with Conrad over the their similar worlds of origin? .. did Fulgrim agree with Conrad's tactics? .. Did Fulgrim instigate the fight between Conrad and Dorn?....

[@UncleMikeDrop]

The Primarchs are complex in every way complexity can be reckoned. It is ingrained in the very warp and weft of their being. As such, their rise and/or fall will be complex.

[@jonharrison9222]

Emphasis on ‘warp.’

[@UncleMikeDrop]

@@jonharrison9222 Yeah. I never liked how they called it the Warp. Emperean and Immaterium sound much better in my opinion.

[@CloudSephiroth]

Top 5 Favorite Primarchs: 1. Valdour 2. Vulkan 3. Fulgrim 4. Sanguinius 5. The Lion

[@DoomStroller]

Magnus would probably chill with almost anyone preheresy lol. Im not a big fan of fulgrim but appreciate the more obscure interactions in the lore to get insight into the primarchs and setting.

[@thatotherguy8138]

With most Primarchs, the more I read about them, the more I like them. (Or at least empathize with, or sympathize with) With Fulgrim... the more I read about him, the LESS I like him. But I will say this - he makes a great Villain. And I wonder - if the 3rd was at the same strength as all the other Legions were when Fulgrim took command, would Fulgrim have been the one to become the Warmaster, and lead the rebellion?

[@nathanlewis2681]

What many people don't know is, the reason why the members of the Emperor's Children went from pink to purple was due to Iron Hands

[@mersenniusprime]

I think that Fulgrim and Ferrus had bad reads on each other. Fulgrim was about being perfect. He was willing to put in the work, but his goal seemed always to be flawless. Ferrus was only about the struggle. He had no intended end or honestly even direction. He struggled for the purity of struggle, knowing that it made him better. It's why Fulgrim seems to always be offended and why the Laer Blade was able to needle at his ego. He was upset about his legion being crippled, but he was more upset that it implied that something was wrong with him. Ferrus was on the grindset and really wasn't bothered by anything but people choosing to be weak. He was probably only slightly behind Dorn in terms of incorruptibility - Horus and Chaos simply had nothing to offer someone like him.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

That's actually the main reason why most loyalist primarchs stayed loyalist. They are content with themselves for the most part and enjoy the process, the end goal is not necessarily the most important thing. Fulgrim wanted to craft the perfect weapon to prove himself but Ferrus or Vulkan are just happy that they get to craft things, the Lion is content with being loyal even if the emperor sometimes said some pretty fucked up shit to him and Gulliman, he has always living according to his father last words "as long as you still have Ultramar you still have everything". But that is not the case with Fulgrim, he used to enjoy the process of self improvement until at some point it's about proving that he can be better than everyone or Perturabo who wanted adoration but doesn't know how to take a compliment. Or Mortarion for that matter. His struggle for freedom is admirable but he has spent too long fighting for it he doesn't know what to do with freedom when it was offered to him.

[@WolfpriestCjarl]

Thanks for going over that awesome moment!!

[@heathhannah454]

Can you please make playlists out of the primarch weeks you've done/will do? I love the vids so much, but it's hard to find the entire week because they don't have "Horus Week Pt. 1" or something like that in the title. Keep up the good work man.

[@Archon3960]

To be fair, I think Fulgrim's perfection" was all a mirage. He needed to prove that he was the superior, deserving of the Aquilla and all. He aimed for perfection instead of bettering himself. At least, Saul Tarvirz understood that fact. 😎

[@ironduke5058]

I don't think he wanted to feel superior, at least not at first. To me, he wanted to feel enough. He got that mindset from having such a small Legion and just adopted it for the entire Crusade. I'm saying so because people forget he grew up in the literal slums, digging his nails broken on minerals so his family could eat. One of his Marines talk down to some normal tribal humans in his Primarch book and he immediately shuts it down and lifts the little kid onto his shoulders because he's not allowing that. Such a cool moment

[@aguspuig6615]

Fulgrim apreciation, this makes my day. Please more of this.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

It quite strange how so many assumes Fulgrim had to be envious towards Sanguinius. Since they were both "The Beautiful One" (but people like the Angel more), they assume a bitter attitude on Fulgrims part... That is literally never supported or even mentioned in the lore! The closest we get is a stray observation from the Khan, who was mildly put a biased observer.

[@aguspuig6615]

Yeah one thing thats inspiring about Fulgrim is that even tho hes basically the underdog of the primarchs, he never seems to be envious of anyone, he LOVES his brothers, he doesnt envy Horus or Sanguinius but he likes them alot, wich goes out of character for his strawman ''Narcissistic vanity driven diva'' stereotype. Because in truth he was a really good person i thinkk

[@Crazozourus]

Bulgerim.

[@ironduke5058]

Everyone harps on Fulgrim and lashes him for how he felt toward his found brothers and their legions, but in all honesty who wouldn't? He's a Primarch taking part in the greatest endeavour of recent human history and he can't even strike out on his own so he can help out. That's not hubris or arrogance, that's just understandable inadequacy. 200 legionaries and a near dead Legion? ANYONE would feel the same, cut him some slack

[@jameskilts555]

Ghost Manus will return

[@brandonmyers1400]

We fought for the emperor in the way he wished it to be so.... iron Within

[@8ball279]

Fulgrim forged better than the Iron Handed Fought Better Than the Great Khan His Legion revived more praise than the Iron Warriors " I'm Stronger. I'm Smarter. I'm Better. I Am Better!"

[@malekiththeeternityking5433]

The Gorgon would have kicked Fulgrims bottom had he not been buffed by Chaos.

[@aguspuig6615]

he wasnt even buffed by chaos at that point, he won fair and square, let my boy have his win

[@madginger3634]

Fulgrim should have been named Dandy, not Fulgrim.

[@shadow2000]

And Perty T-T

[@DavidWilliams-mm9ti]

if more surprised if he wasn’t jealous and insecure hehe

[@joeford5181]

Khan: (Burn)

[@Crazozourus]

Why there is World of Warcraft here?

[@silversurfer8818]

A section was repeated twice

[@jamesdestefano4793]

No offense but really leaving out why Ferris and him are great "friends" and brothers is really a miss here for this one.

[@Bookibaloush]

I finally got to purchase audio books because i was tired of your ramblings and unnecessary repeating to pad the video. Thanks!

[@bowserbrowser6559]

Iirc isnt what the fans call "the best burn in warhammer" just a misunderstood meme at this point? Wasnt it Fulgrim actually trying to be friendly with Jaghatai and not knowing Jaghatais modifications to their ships was a secret so Jaghatai got mad and said the line about doing strange things to his sons but the strange things were experimental treatments done by Belasarius (i think) to save them from the gene seed problem they were dying from?

[@nathanlewis2681]

What many people don't know is, the reason why the members of the Emperor's Children went from pink to purple was due to Iron Hands.