Women at Thirty - Jordan Peterson's Advice for Young Women Choosing Careers Over Motherhood

This is and excerpt from a Q&A Jordan Peterson streamed on the 3rd of July 2017, in which he offers some advice to young women about the pitfalls of a myopic focus on career early in life, how one's preferences change later in life, and ways to develop a positive relationship with your children.
You can listen to the rest of the stream here: • Q & A 2017 07 July

[@jessicac3747]

I'm seeing a lot of "There are no good men left, everyone's in their basement playing video games" and "Women are irrational idiots" in the comments, so...that's healthy. Life is hard enough, ffs. I know very few alpha career women, and very few 'beta' men. What I DO see are a bunch of people with massive student debt, living in a toxic hook up culture, trying to find something lasting. Sometimes a long term relationship or a marriage falls apart, leaving people devastated. Sometimes you get divorced young with children. Sometimes people die. You can make every 'good' decision, every 'right' choice, and still get blindsided by something. Instead of blaming each other, we should be trying to help. Instead of putting one another down as 'cat ladies who can't get a date' or 'basement dwelling losers who are unlovable' to make up for our own frustrations, we should be building each other up. But it's the youtube comments section, so this is likely all just wasted breath. Er, typing.

[@francescamercedesguilliod4767]

Upvote this comment to the top.

[@Mystrym]

This is such a nice comment and deserves more visibility 👏🙏

[@ruppedogg]

Well said-- an eloquent statement and yet you still understand that most comment authors aren't going to change their minds on this platform. We all have to work towards building each other up, getting over the weird hurdles we all face. Keep on spreading that message despite the low-effort name-calling and displacement of blame that we see sometimes. We need more scaffolding and tricks from one another's toolboxes, and we certainly need more strength in confronting what's wrong to break out of this cultural rut. Keep spreading that truth!

[@deusvult7881]

Thank you for saying this. Life is indeed difficult, more for some than others, we cant choose our parents and if we are born to horrible NPD mothers who sabotage your whole life and take pleasure from your pain the deck is stacked against you. What more can you do except take things day by day?

[@lilolmecj]

ross it is hard, but try to not get stuck in judging individuals with generalities. Every woman and every woman is different. Some are good,some are bad, and a lot are just lost and confused. Jordan Peterson date nights sound like a good date. Pizza, and a little philosophy, followed by a discussion of how he challenges your beliefs.

[@JB-kx9bx]

No one should ever be totally dependent on one individual. Putting all you're hopes on a spouse that may cheat on you, leave you, etc is a mistake. You have to be able to take care of yourself financially.

[@JD-qf8ul]

I agree, don’t prioritise one piece of the puzzle, job, wife, friends, family but instead spread between them all and absorb any blows accordingly

[@notmywillbutyoursbedone]

Only mistake is having a mindset that assumes men “may” cheat on you.

[@thedoublep]

@@notmywillbutyoursbedone it's not an assumption ,many men abandoned their wife and gf they were left with nothing, so it may happen, precaution is better than cure, humans should stay cautious

[@shaylabasilio4419]

I’m sorry but why would you put your trust in a boss that could also fire you any day and trade you for someone else, rather than put your trust in a husband that chose to marry you, and made vows to you in front of witnesses. This argument makes no sense to me, as if your boss has more of a commitment to you than your husband. Your boss only wants you for financial gain...

[@justduuak.1699]

@@shaylabasilio4419 well said. Why do people make it feel like when people get married they all together forget financial education. And if they don't have financial education, even though they are working their boss can screw them over and they would be screwed. Imagine working for 20years no savings and in debt, they are not married and have no family support and in their forties they get laid off, are they not still as screwed if not as screwed

[@learningearning8385]

People say women are choosing “career over family”. The reality is that until we find a husband (if we’re even pretty enough to ever find one) we have to FEED ourselves or take care of a parent or pay our own rent. We’re working out of necessity.

[@Neimm]

I agree with this statement

[@kotare86]

And Gen Y's cost of living is 4 times that of the Boomer Generation, so not having a good career is setting you up for lots of pain

[@melissaockey1346]

You actually need more than one income to not be completely on the poverty line. Especially if you both work minimum paid jobs. Our mortgage eats up more than i get paid a week working 25 hrs a week and im not even on minimum. All the woman i know HAVE to work to provide for their families. And the men just have to try not to feel like failures for not being able to provide fully because it doesn’t help! Its just life

[@tara34952]

THANK-YOU! I literally love you for what you just wrote. I'm a woman, 38 years old. I am SICK and TIRED of the media CONSTANTLY selling this LIE. They constantly BLAME WOMEN for 'delaying motherhood' and then struggling to get pregnant and needing fertility treatment, they BLAME US WOMEN - what about the men? I always wanted to be a young mother, I was never ambitious for a career, I wanted marriage and a family, but d'you know what? Almost no man in his twenties wants to settle down, all the men I've known would have been pretty much horrified at the thought of getting married and starting a family until well into their 30's. They want their freedom and are commitment-phobic. In my experience it is overwhelmingly the MEN who want to delay marriage and having children; women are generally readier and wanting to settle down at an earlier age than the men. What they never mention is that it's HARD to find the right person and except for those lucky few, it can take a long time to find the right partner. Women are under SO MUCH MORE PRESSURE time-wise because of our narrow biological window of fertility whereas men can father children when they are much much older. It is disgusting to perpetuate this lie that it's exclusively women delaying motherhood in order to further their careers and it is INSULTING to those of us who have LONGED to have children but who haven't had the opportunity, either because they haven't found the right man, or thought they had found the right man and then the relationship broke down, or because they might have had difficulty conceiving, sometimes for years. (Infertility can just as often be an issue for men as it is for women). It is absolutely insulting, damaging and hurtful to women.

[@Neimm]

@@tara34952 I tell you what Tara I'm clapping till my hands got red. You hit the nail on it's head

[@RockynCurls]

Career driven my whole life. Had kids over thirty and, and it has been the best thing ever for me. I was afraid of losing my freedoms and life due to all these negative mothers out there. I am not like them, I am having a blast with these kids. I never wanted kids and have never been a kid person and was always afraid of babies. It has been such a blessing and it has actually helped me regain my health and hormones. I am more fit, my house is cleaner, and I am the thinnest I have been in 15 years. I go to the gym to get a break and I take care of me. I work part time. I have more energy than before kids.

[@GodofDisco]

That's awesome good for you!

[@brtbrtbrl7461]

how many kids did you decide to have if you dont mind me asking?

[@mi8148]

Goals! 👏👏👏

[@amandagonzalez7279]

@RockynCurls Wow. I’m so happy to hear that.I’m 34 and I have been contemplating getting married and having a family of my own after years of working.

[@colbalt95]

@@amandagonzalez7279 you act like you have time and Leverage to contemplate. You are reproducer. Producer territory is in the thirties and forties. There's more to what us men want from women than just your looks. realistically speaking a man of the same age can get a 23 year old especially if he is financially sound.

[@MmmMulholland]

I love Peterson with all my heart but I will say this... My grandmother had a nervous breakdown (1963) because being a domestic housewife was so utterly miserable. Nothing was really wrong, but it just wasn’t for her and forcing her into that role lead to 3 bouts of electro shock therapy. My beautiful cousin was married with 2 children by 28, beautiful wedding, home bought ...he’s left her because he didn’t want to give up having fun. Kids were too much. Wanted all his money for himself. She’s 30 and saddled with 2 kids, huge mortgage payments and no partner on her own. We’re in the U.K. so women don’t get big settlements here when divorce happens. My friend is 33 and he has been married with 3 kids to his wife for nearly 10 years. At a party while his wife was getting drinks he smacked me on the behind and tried to put his tongue down my throat. His wife is wonderful and their kids are adorable. He wanted to leave it all because it bores him, apparently. Now look, things aren’t as clear cut as Peterson says here. They’re just not. Women play the whole thing right in their 20’s etc, and it all goes tits up no matter how hard they work at it. They can both be dedicated but things just don’t work out. Women need to be able to forge a future for themselves if and when the shit hits the fan. You might be a good man that would work on a marriage, but other men aren’t and the stakes are VERY high for women to put all her eggs in one basket.

[@CRFSUIGENERIS]

M M Well said. Many will argue that you gave anecdotal evidence, but his wish for women to blissfully settle as “Mother” on a pedestal is unrealistic. She isn’t safe from harm there. People try their best, but so many things go wrong. Not blaming genders, but life is just plain difficult, and so is making things work with other human beings. He means well, but it’s far rarer to have a successful family. It can be done but a lot of luck, maturity, learning, perseverance, and that magical “love” factor are needed. I think those don’t even cover all the essentials. It’s that complicated 😝 With that being said, it takes a lot of matching and mutual evolution on both sides to make marriage work which leads to a successful family with heathy and emotionally nurtured children. I don’t think fear and paranoia should rule one’s life, but you need to put food on the table for yourself. You can’t build your house on sand. Men and women shouldn’t leave certain duties for either gender to be fulfilled. Each gender has their strengths but they are to be learned from- not to consume. You are essentially using each other, that’s the opposite of real love. I know he is talking about a woman’s ultimate meaning is fulfilling her femininity by having children and a partner by a certain age. But, I think it’s more than that. I think he just saying we just want Love to give and Love to have as simplistic and sentimental as it sounds. I think that’s healthy and innate to both genders, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be ONLY redeemed via the family (especially when both partners form the family on boredom, anxiety, or selfish legacy). If there were more virtuous and mature couplings from the start, I don’t think this video would even be made. Alas, life is not like that...

[@calexander6084]

M M The problem with Peterson is that.. It's not about man/woman's issue. Sorry for my english but.. The basic needs of necessity for human comes from family relationships, but also from social acitivties and career - evenif it's hard , underrated jobs. If you take one out, your contentment and overall desire will be unbalanced through out your entire life, you will feel like there's some part of you that is missing and can not be filled fully with domestic things. I felt this strongly as I grew up because both my mom and grandma spent their entire lives soley as a homemaker. My grandma had the exact same issue with yours. She suffered from terrible dementia due to my grandpa's nitpicking and temperament during 50 years of marriage. She couldn't have any other way out to release her stress, nor speak what she wants to him. She cannot stand as an independent person. If she had a fair job, maybe continued her career as teacher before she met him, I think it would be a totally different story. Becasue she doesn't have economical capability to stand alone, she was afraid if the marriage will end and so she clinged to it.

[@eartianwerewolf]

Yep and shaming women for wanting to be their own independent people is just bizarre, and it is a great thing that they don't have to live in a time where they are chained to a life that is not working for them anymore. I think Peterson's solution is the wrong one. I do believe that we need to put more emphasis on community , period. I do think there is a bit of a family crisis, but I think it is more to be blamed on a lack of connection and less on these nuclear family units not working . You need good relationships with the people around you, period, and their families, so if something goes wrong you can have people that love you to fall back on. It takes a village to raise a child, not just a mother and father. A lot of parents come from broken, isolated families and that ends up stamping itself later on. I've just experienced that this 'one man one woman, that's it' attitude is just harmful ultimately to the health of both the husband and the wife. The most well adjusted people are the ones who are active with friends and love what they do outside of their home too. And they get the kids involved. It's just better.

[@AliceDiamondWisdom]

Thank you, especially agree with the last point. I feel like Peterson failed to make this compelling point. Although he brings up important issues in his talk that is worthy of considering, he also overgeneralizes and just didn't include the wide spectrum of other issues facing women and family just to support his narrative. I think if JBP really wanted to help women (and I'm not sure if that's his real intention or not since I don't know him personally) he should've encouraged us to think for ourselves, whether it's family/career or both. In other words extended the "sort yourself out" message to us too, rather than try to convince young people to believe the ideal he presents here is a bulletproof solution against "chaos".

[@Slipperygecko390]

This right here says it all, the whole modern life style is not working. Bored men and bored women. Not enough challenges and too many options/ways out when the going gets tough. Back in the day couples would stay together through thick and thin because otherwise their children would not survive. A domestic housewife did not exist outside of the very upper class 200 years ago. Both parents would grind hard af to get cloths on their kids backs and food in them. It's not a gender war at all, it's a life style war and we are losing.

[@Chloe2000mm]

A lot of women in their 20s are trying to keep a roof over their heads and food in the cupboards and fridge just as the men are. If they have a partner, it usually takes two incomes in order to achieve this. We are a long ways from the 1950s and 1960s economy. It's not even a choice so much as it is a basic necessity. If you don't work and pay attention to the needs of your job/career, you become homeless, plain and simple.

[@ladylefteye]

Exactly. You have to survive. That is going to take two incomes. People don’t want to look at it realistically. If the man is making above average in income then he can afford to be the ultimate provider.

[@User18dog]

This is because the workforce doubled, which is what happened in the 50’s and 60’s when woman entered the workforce

[@ladylefteye]

@@User18dog That May be true, it is what it is. If that’s the case it should inspire men to work harder and become earners in the top 1%. Also, we are way beyond the 50s and 60s. There are a lot of single women, women who are not single, and women who have kids who have to work. No way are they going to Leave the workforce to be stay at home mothers if that’s not what they want. Some of them may want that. There is nothing wrong with being a housewife, or a stay at home mom. I don’t knock that at all. To each it’s own. However, Not every woman has that privilege, nor does every woman want to do that. It’s about doing what truly makes you happy, not doing something because other people are telling you that’s this one thing is going to make you happy 😃

[@liverbird8292]

Not all women who work full time or strive for a slightly better income are “high achievers” wanting a 100k salary and lifestyle to match, selfish and brainwashed into thinking that is a great life. Most have to work to pay the bills even if they have a partner who is contributing. Thats the reality. And what about the collapse of marriage and commitment to long term relationships, many women cant afford to have kids or worry about being left without support, especially if they have a small family and circle of people to help them. If you have been surrounding by these alpha women or middle class spoilt children then you are going to get a biased view of modern women and especially if you have only had one relationship since childhood and not had to face a multitude of problems as a single person in their 20s or 30s. As we all know those who haven’t experienced this are always the ones who speak from their ivory towers.

[@douglascampbell4993]

@@ladylefteye that’s not the point.. that man wants stability too, and unfortunately now we have moved into an age where a household requires two incomes if you want to be able to have a stable and secure household, and also be able to experience “life” and actually do things in your own time.. that is, if you have the time nowadays..

[@MadiRoss91]

I’m turning 30 this year. I spent my 20s battling my mental health, in trauma and re-living trauma. I am dedicating my 30s and the rest of this life to healing it in myself and others 🦋

[@julielin4496]

Everyone is on their on path.

[@lillybellini2842]

Madi, I thought I was alone. I’m going through the exact same thing as you

[@jaescats5468]

Almost thought I was listening to my own story

[@shaunaireland9161]

Same!

[@VarunJanga]

I'm not a girl, but with same story as yours...

[@chelseashamim9148]

Women: find a man to take care of you and start a family Me: ok I will Men: Don't date me for my money Me: ok I'll get a career Men: you have focused your youth on a career, in not interested Me: ok fine Women: Where's your kids Me: I don't have a husband/boyfriend/partner Woman: Just be a single mom Me: What? I give up. I'll have cats *Edit* Update : I got a puppy instead

[@coolcat6341]

, 😂😂😂😂

[@chelseashamim9148]

@@coolcat6341 like your username

[@HelenEk7]

I have actually never met a woman thinking she wants to find a man to take care of her. 99% of mothers I know work, at least part time. But all people, including men work less than 40 hours a week, parents share house work, men also pick up children from school, all workers have paid sick leave (including when children are sick), and 5 weeks paid holiday. Which makes combining work and family life easier. (Norway)

[@chelseashamim9148]

@@HelenEk7 I'm in the UK. Check out the femininity channels on KZbin. They want to 'rest in their femininity' do basically be stay at home house wives.

[@shannonlee4622]

Honestly, yeah if you want kids just be a single mom. I plan on starting the adoption process when I reach 25, with a partner or not.

[@grumpyschnauzer]

I kept meeting guys who’d say “You’re too marriage material... I’d break your heart” and “I think I want a bachelor life” so now I’m like “I’m just gonna focus on making sure I can support myself and enjoy my life.”

[@MariahRuthven]

Yes

[@danib712]

No one wants to get married and have kids anymore

[@michaelsong5555]

Good choice. For both yourself and men. Marriage is a raw deal for men, which is why they're choosing to marry less.

[@Bladerunner5146]

@@danib712 I think I do when I get older probably not going to if the dating scene doesn't change(hopeful but don't expect it to)

[@sunmoonstars0369]

@@michaelsong5555 and it’s even worse deal for women, that’s why attractive women are no longer dating. The long term benefits are far greater for males than females.

[@rainbow9987]

I hate the judgement. What if at 30 you have not found the right person not because of career. You just simply have not.

[@noobiewatcherz9938]

People are using the excuse of "focusing on career" even tho a lot of men/women are casually half-assing their "career" in favor of other addictions. but at the same time financially well off men who marry women just to end in losing half his wealth is a mistake. While also women who marry a man who's not even close to being financially secure to help pay for kids is also a mistake. But lets say a man and a woman are roommates and share the space and financial burden of the rent of course that would be a good choice compared to living alone and living in a smaller space per price , but if they can't use each other for "relationship" then that too is a mistake because why would they spend time and money on someone that can't be a "relationship". The addiction to internet seems to be more cost efficient and time efficient than a "relationship" these days.

[@badass6300]

Then you haven't been searching much have you?

[@heidis7725]

If you have a laundry list for what your partner must have.... tall, good looking, physically fit, financially stable, loving, funny, etc... then you need to meet the requirements of the type of man you want. And, pay attention to the fact that the perfect man you want, he has 100+ women who want him as well. So, you're going to have to compete to get him and compete to keep him. Keep in mind this is a 10/10 man you want. In other words if you want more than you have to offer, then the man you want will never want you back. And, the men that want you are the ones you don't like or are not physically attracted too. To simplify this lower your standards and settle. You'll be happier in the long run.

[@davipenha]

then you'll start to running out of options soon

[@badass6300]

@@davipenha She already has, many men want to get to know a woman for a couple of years before they have kids with her, so if the woman is 30, then she'd be 32-34 when the man would wan't kids and that's late as hell. Kids have to be raised after all and nobody wants to be 15 while their parents are 50 year old grandmas and grandpas, at least one of the parents has to be young enough.

[@JB-kx9bx]

I know alot of career women who are also married to a high income earner and have kids. This includes women who are ER doctors, and engineers. I also know alot of women who didn't pursue a career and ended up single without kids anyway. I dont think pursuing economic independence is a bad thing for anyone.

[@badass6300]

Economic independence while there is a government is not economic independence, I will take it a step further, economic independance while you depend on other people is not economic independence.

[@Ang36914]

Studies actually show the most educated women are the most likely to be married...I've also seen studies that say educated women have smaller dating pools, so I don't know what to believe anymore lol.

[@Palownica]

My grandmom, mother of 3 children when she was dying, she said what she most regrets is having kids.

[@OoWhiteStaroO]

Wow.... mine said the exact opposite xD She had 4. That room was crowded.

[@kotare86]

@@OoWhiteStaroO Did everyone in the room die together?

[@OoWhiteStaroO]

@@kotare86 Everyone came to see her :)

[@laqueen1229]

Yikes

[@kotare86]

@@OoWhiteStaroO It's kind of creepy to watch people die I have to say :(

[@epithymbria]

Just as the western governments should help women be good mothers as well as workers, they should motivate men to be good fathers. In Norway, we have both maternity and paternity leave, and your job can't fire you for being a parent. I wish more countries did the same.

[@erinv2003]

epithymbria Canada also has maternity and paternity leave as well

[@christineshah7330]

Why do I need the government to help me be an adult?

[@jammyjackson2743]

epithymbria hoo do you think is paying for a that free maternity Leve . It's the people that have no Children . The single people The TAX payers

[@lonelylucifer5301]

Jammy Jackson learn how to spell and construct a sentence before inserting your 2 cents. Most people have children. Most people work. Therefore, your conclusion is rediculous.

[@jammyjackson2743]

Melissa Calandro Melissa You wrong most woman do not have children . All woman on fat welfare payments are single mothers. Well that's what it is in AUSTRALIA a socialist democratic country . And all the woman in now in The LUCKY country AUSTRALIA Are working if you can call it work As fake public servants jobs WTF

[@leonabrawne200]

If men don't want women to pursue careers, make sure you are able to support them.

[@leonabrawne200]

They're all beta males bitches..

[@shin-ishikiri-no]

Why do guys agree to have parasites and get married? Seems like a bad deal.

[@ctzn291139]

Women don't need to be supported. They can support anybody, any day. And why is it that an adult human of the male gender should have anything to do with the decision by an adult human of the female gender to pursue a career?

[@garrettstephens91]

Exactly! I went out of my way to work a second job so that my wife could stay home with our kids. Most men today are weak, irresponsible, and immature. I hear many women say, "My husband doesn't make enough money for me to stay home with the kids." My response to them is, "Well I am sorry that you married a limp dick, weak man, but tell your husband to get off his lazy ass and be a man by making sure that you can stay home. If he doesn't sign him up for the military, or go find a real man."

[@garrettstephens91]

TruthHurts well I will agree to disagree. I may be delusional, but I am fine with that. I think that your viewpoint is delusional too. Women are (on average) more compasionate and better with kids than men are. Women can protect themselves and their kids equally as well as men...ever heard of guns? I understand why men were the sole earners in the past, but this isn't the past now is it? But just because something happened in the past doesn't mean that it was a bad idea. I do not think that we need more stay-at-home fathers, we need more fathers that are comitted to their marriage, but not stay-at-home. There are many women who can outwork men. My mom can outwork my dad and most men that are under 40 now.

[@lizrivera389]

I'm all for motherhood if that is someone's choice. I also understand where a lot of guys are coming from wanting to have a good mother for their children. As a woman who values family and wants children I want to talk a little about this. I think the issue is that to be a stay at home mom means to give all of your power over to the man you are married to. It can lead to finances being controlled and you being treated like a child and having to ask for money to do anything even though you are raising the kids and caring for the household. This happened with my parents and scares the crap out of me. I think there is another aspect where women often lose their identity in a husband and children because there is nothing else for them in that scenario. Moms are people too and they need to have things that are just theirs to be a complete person and valuable partner. There needs to be balance. Many fathers aren't that involved with the raising of the children. They spent a couple of hours if that with them and they are good dads. I think if fathers stepped up more and there was more balance in the relationship it would be good. A woman shouldn't have to give up all of her self and dreams to be a good mother. Parents have to work together to give their child the best life.

[@algorerhythms2975]

I wonder how many men fail to realize that there are plenty of "single moms" who are technically married and/or have been from the beginning of time.

[@changeyourlife3213]

My mom is a stay at home mom and she basically controls all the money my dad makes so I don’t think that’s true in all situations.

[@kathrinlindern2697]

@@changeyourlife3213 The question is not how money is controlled during the relationship, but what economic situation a divorce would create. Lots of the men here think that women are leeches and take stuff that doesn't belong to them in that case, but if a woman gave up her career, did all the housework and raised multiple kids while the father took them out to play, told the occasional bedtime story and maybe mowed the lawn once a week, the wife earned a share of that money. And more, she gave up the opportunity to find well-paid work later on by being out of work for a decade or so. So the woman's financial stability would suffer enormously after splitting up. And if you can't afford leaving someone but they can afford to leave you, that creates a power imbalance.

[@rodrigom7686]

@@kathrinlindern2697 You are looking at only one side of the story. Is there no drawdown on being the working part of the family in a divorce cenario? Like, "she gave up the opportunity to find well-paid work later on by being out of work for a decade or so", the man does the same thing in relation to raising children. You consider only financial power as part of the equation, as if that is all that matters in this cases, and we all know which way power imbalance goes to court in a divorce.

[@kathrinlindern2697]

@@rodrigom7686 "Raising the children" is fairly limited in time, though. In the first 3 years or so of a kids life being the primary caregiver might have a high emotional payoff, but after that, when the kid goes to kindergarten or school? Furthermore, the "classic" solution in a divorce is that the father still gets the children every other weekend... and once the children are mostly grown up, this usually matters less as they become more independent. The financial inequality in most marriages doesn't stop, though. So a divorce is typically going to hurt the primary caregiver long after the children have left home.

[@catherinem.8491]

I too was always told that I could be whatever I wanted to be. At 11 I picked the career I wanted and by 30 I had my doctorate in that field. Since 30 I was married and have 2 children. And while I still find my work fulfilling and meaningful, I still have such guilt over nannies helping my children while I was out there helping other people."I should have been there," is what i always say to myself. Life is hard, and adults have hard choices to make, and we can't have it all- so choose wisely. Like men, women too can be anything. I believe this. But we can't be everything. At least not without great stress- which is probably why almost 1 in 3 people are on some type of psych medication for support- and our immune systems are failing. It's because we are all maxed out trying to be everything. Not only that but when we start dividing ourselves up, the less time and attention each section gets. My take away- my advice, pick ONE career. Motherhood is certainly a full time career that needs just as much respect as being a doctor or a lawyer or CEO. Pick a career and be awesome at it, and find pride and purpose in it everyday.

[@ceciliachao8529]

So well said!

[@timothyn4699]

Well stated. The falsehood ppl fall for is that they can have everything, but saying that I think leads to most ppl delaying searching for a mate or starting a family, but waiting too long can seriously hinder either dating prospects or the possibility of childbirth. So all things are possible, unfortunately being young and invincible passes by far too quickly. Decide what is most important to you and shoot for that

[@nicolaimatthew5928]

@WJ Sky agreed, good comment

[@Ken_sky]

absolutely! love this comment. you can be anything, but not everything. well said

[@brawnbrutal6213]

Love this!! Absolutely

[@naviifra2374]

I know many women that want to be married and have kids but have not found the right man to settle down with, its not always single by choice or due to choosing a career

[@eartianwerewolf]

hahahahahaha you think men haven't been influenced? It's so fucking weird to see them blame women all the time o-e?

[@rockwest001]

they found the right man already ... and screwed him over.

[@mecha641]

Bcoz man can become a father even after 50. For women it’s not that easy.....

[@smokestacks2033]

Women have unrealistic expectations and too many choices.

[@LaisCordiolli]

It's been 2 two years I'm trying to find a boyfriend... I feel that real relationships are getting complicated nowadays

[@seanb3516]

Here's another age related thingy. I was 28 when someone asked me my age. I told them and they replied with "ah, so you're 12 short years away from being 40". That really splashed some cold water on the reality of time.

[@nameremoved4010]

Fertility starts its drop at about 35. Forty is a too late number at least not without help in most instances.

[@kickinthegob]

Fertility starts to drop drastically at 30, not 35. My wife is 38 and pregnant with our 4th child and she is treated like a freak of nature at the hospital. Apparently we are very rare as we were not even trying for any more kids. At our age, people are largely on fertility drugs or doing IVF.

[@haggertyamanda]

I think that it a little bit of an exaggeration. Both sexes fertilities decline with age, but not nearly as drastically as you say before 40. For women, of course, menopause brings a complete stop to their fertility at some point, but according to this study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14704244 "The percentage infertility was estimated at 8% for women aged 19-26 years, 13-14% for women aged 27-34 years and 18% for women aged 35-39 years. Starting in the late 30s, male age was an important factor, with the percentage failing to conceive within 12 cycles increasing from an estimated 18-28% between ages 35 and 40 years." So that means ~82% of women can get pregnant between 35-39, hardly rare. It's actually more drastic between 26 and 27.

[@oDTRT]

Amanda Haggerty Males can shoot cum for almost their whole lives

[@haggertyamanda]

junk bot True, but that doesn't mean they're fertile. Infertile men are not impotent, and an impotent man can be fertile. A man's fertility drops with age, but they don't have an abrupt stop like a female. The reality is that we get worse with age, just a slow decline after your twenties.

[@nk1645]

Jordan loves his family. I'm sure he's a great husband and father. But we're all individuals. We choose what's important to us, we decide what's the meaning of life is. Let happy mothers be happy mothers and happy hard-working women be happy hard-working women.

[@MariaPerez-xe9bu]

Exactly. I am over 30 and I simply don’t want them. Never had. It’s not because I chose my career over them, is because I simply have no desire to be a mom…. That’s valid too 🤷🏻‍♀️ and let me tell you something from all the problems I can have as a person, this is not one of them at all.

[@thehighground3630]

Nobody wants to force anyone to have children (at least not yet, look at china, they are about to) but it simply tends to be the case that women without children will eventually become unhappy. You will die alone.

[@alexislane1035]

@@MariaPerez-xe9bu Just be glad your parents didn't make this decision

[@thehereticalinvestigation]

One thing that makes someone competent at what they do is the ability to pick the most effective (or the least ineffective) tool for solving what's in front of you. Peterson has to navigate two very distinct problem spaces: Educating a group of people (his students, and now, his much bigger audiences), as well as the one-on-one counseling/therapy work. Evidently, he has been highly successful in both domains, and for decades at that. Now, when you speak to a big audience, you will (at least you should) be talking about those things that are of concern to *most* of the people listening. If you're not focusing on giving solutions for the *most common* problems experienced by your audience, then your audience will ultimately stop coming. On the other hand, when working with people one-on-one, you should entirely be focusing on that one individual. If you're going to give them solutions that will work even for 99% of people, but won't work for that one person sitting in front of you... then you obviously failed at your job. And that's what Peterson's been doing. On numerous occasions, he's talked about coaching his more career-oriented female patients on how to assert themselves in male-dominated professional environments, how to negotiate raises (which is difficult to do for people high in agreeableness, many of whom happen to be women - but of course, there are also men in this category, like me for example), and on how to generally navigate all sorts of hierarchies on the material plane. Because there's no end to hierarchies.. that's just a fact of the natural life, it seems. I don't exactly get why, but a lot of people seem to have a hard time understanding that there's these fundamentally different problem spaces of the individual, the tribe, and the collective. And that at each of those levels, you'll have to address very different kinds of challenges and needs. Finding the right formulas for structuring the collective (formulas like universal human rights for example) is a fundamentally different set of problems than finding the right formulas for navigating your individual life (like understanding yourself first and foremost for example: your needs, desires, values, limits, etc - in order for you to then be capable of communicating those things to whoever needs to know, or to be able to set boundaries, if what you're communicating is not met with respect, or to even be able to know what kind of life it really is that you want to build for yourself in the first place). Peterson has to do both, and while a seriously huge crowd of people seems to agree that he's doing a remarkably good job at this nearly impossible endeavor (there's a good reason that the vast majority of people choose to specialize professionally on either the individual, or the tribe, or the collective. But few are seriously attempting to succeed at multiple levels, and much fewer are actually able to find success at that). Now, naturally, "doing a good job" is a spectrum. And even the most competent among us will run into occasional spectacular failure. We're all just trying to give it our best while stumbling forward, after all. But I do think that it's fairly obvious what Peterson is trying to do. I have great respect for those who are even bothering with the attempt. So yeah, I totally lost track of my point, as you can see... I guess I just want to say that any accomplished psychologist (or anyone who deeply understands human nature and behavior, for that matter) will know to approach different audiences in different ways.. from the highly individualized to the broadly applicable. I can guarantee that if you don't want kids but the idea of becoming the CEO of an established company lights you up like nothing else-then those will be the goals that Peterson will strive to achieve in close collaboration with you. How can I be so sure of that? Simply because anything less would inevitably have led to a quick demise of his psychological practice. THANKS FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK

[@chadcadsonvii5258]

Well the problem is that the largest and fastest growing demographic of antidepressant users are childless unmarried women. So where are these happy career women? On ticktock maybe? Nah I looked, just lots of old women crying about being single. Each to their own and all but when you repeatedly lie to young women and push them down paths there is no coming back from then society is going to have one hell of a problem! Demographics are destiny, feminist's war on the family will result in the collapse of the West.

[@kglistless]

I can't afford to not work. I'm turning 30 this year. I don't have time for kids. As long as I have a job, I can survive.

[@seorwhite3333]

Get a man?

[@seorwhite3333]

I know it sounds stupid but if you're standards aren't too high you can probably grab a decent man who will take care of you

[@evaoliveira8579]

Henrique Rodrigues haha! But then he could also leave you or abuse you and then you’re screwed lol

[@aisherwasher6959]

Man or no man, do you think you'll be in the same place in ten years? If so, how can you improve your situation in that time or less? Maybe 5 years? That leaves time to start a family (if thats what you want) traditional or otherwise. At least I would hope! Thats my 10 cents 🙂

[@OkabexKurisu]

@@aisherwasher6959 she is 30 tho. Time is running out.

[@julietoy227]

Having kids and is no guarantee of happiness. Marriage and family doesn't guarantee security for women either. Plenty of women have committed themselves to husbands and children, only to be left for someone else and without adequate financial resources down the line. Women have to look out for themselves, even if Prince Charming marries them and gives them a family. That's life. It's also interesting to me that he mentions that the successful women in their 30's were also attractive. What does that have to do with anything? Anyway, no matter what this person says, women need to have opportunities and options in life. Even if your true desire is to be a stay at home mother, the reality is that that doesn't always have a happy ending.

[@arxsyn]

Julie Toy Well if you look at the job market these days that's what it is, most people go from job to job. An employer may demand loyalty from you, but won't have any loyalty to you. There is no job security and few offer pensions. Labour unions are feeble in the States.

[@mississipi1103]

Because Peterson thinks that only ugly women wants a career and think that the worst thing a woman could be is to be ugly. Don't get fooled by the smart words he use

[@kimmiewise1044]

@@mississipi1103 That’s not what he thinks at all, do you have ears??? Attractive just propels a woman higher on hierarchy just as much as handsome men are propelled higher on the hierarchy. I mean, would you rather have a clean shaven, good smelling and physically built lawyer or a man who looks like he hasn’t shaved in 3 years, smells like ass and looks so fragile and timid you would breathe on him wrong and he’d disintegrate before your eyes? That’s the name of a game. Being attractive looks professional because humans have a heuristic that the cleaner and the more good looking you are the more attention you give to individual tasks and the better your performance will be. This kind of thinking goes all the way down to machines. If a loading screen isn’t aesthetically pleasing, even if the task was completed identically, humans will judge that the more aesthetically pleasing machine and loading screen did a better job than the ugly machine because they think the machine had a more streamlined and organized process than the other despite the processes being identical. Its not just Peterson, it’s something that humans have done since before we were humans.

[@jgould30]

@@mississipi1103 oh look, a person who doesn't want to face realities of the world. Keep burying your head in the sand and ignoring the biological facts of the world.

[@curiousplayfan]

@Vesta It's not too late. You can pick up work skills and have a new love life (if you wish it). Since you don't have kids to take care of, now you can just focus on what YOU want to do next...

[@LuxPsy]

It's a huge assumption that your kids will be around when you are old. Imagine sitting in a senior house all day resenting why none of your kids is visiting you. It'd feel worse than not having that expectation because you have no kids.

[@juliamarlin5612]

Jordan acts like peoples only social interaction when they are old is with their children. Has he never had a friend? Actually, that wouldn't surprise me too much.

[@evaoliveira8579]

💯 %!!! I love Jordan, but I look at all the seniors in nursing homes feeling lonely despite having children and grandchildren lol

[@ProperJudgment]

well, you wouldn't have that problem if you actually raised them right and treated yourself correctly. it isn't just a one and done deal, this is life we're talking about. i guarantee you, if he didnt have his children, Jordan would probably be dead by now because of the medicines he got off of.

[@LuxPsy]

@@ProperJudgment His daughter convinced him to eat an all meat diet, have a medically induced coma, and then gave him covid. Seems to me like she’s the “dragon of chaos” that’s half-killing him.

[@ProperJudgment]

@@LuxPsy should probably look into it more, because that isn't accurate in the slightest

[@sarah2576]

Never put all your eggs in the domestic basket. Men can leave, careers won’t.

[@vitamins00]

covid says hi

[@periechontology]

Here is something else careers wont do for most people: provide fulfillment, meaning and happiness. Many women are finding this out the hard way.

[@sarah2576]

@@periechontology that all comes from yourself. Not from a career OR a spouse, and I have both

[@sarah2576]

@@JustMe54328 exactly. I see married people die alone all the time, I work in the ICU so don’t ever think getting married or having kids guarantees anything

[@periechontology]

@@sarah2576 O.K. question. Why not simply do nothing? Do you think you would be fulfilled if you spent your life doing nothing sitting on a curb somewhere? Why do human beings aim to do anything in the world? I and (and I think Peterson) are not saying you may not already be happy before you obtain these things. We are saying that this happiness would have begun to dwindle to nothing if you did absolutely nothing with your life. Furthermore starting families is an important part of that equation for most people which is why we are hearing the complaints we are from middle age women. Protecting Pizza Hut's trademark rights turns out not to be an adequate "reason for being " for many people. Having children is something many women want to do and it is best done with a loving husband and father.

[@zaakuuroo]

Hey guys. Instead of blaming others, let's start working on ourselves so we can add some tiny portion of good in this mad world

[@omnilightstudios7958]

Change starts with the man in the mirror

[@Zombie1Boy]

Don't worry, I'm almost there.

[@planlosubertroffen2282]

I love your Idea. Sounbds good enough for me ^^

[@rudy1999]

Yep, these 30+ women in comments with their ''men are to blame for my problems'' are funny af

[@tahsina.c]

@@rudy1999 dont be so hysterical. Literally no one is saying that. most 30+ women are commenting how they MUST focus on career to get a job and survive bc financially they wouldn't be secure otherwise and that this advice is geared toward rich people and simply isn't realistic.

[@zaydean9367]

I'g going to give Jordan Peterson the benefit of the doubt here and say he loves his wife and treats her with respect. Does he not realize a lot of women are not as lucky as she is and because of this, an emergency evacuation plan needs to be in place? People from bad homes often magnetize abusive partners and require a lot of time to get oriented correctly. Marrying and reproducing young is an HORRIBLE idea for a lot of people, and the biggest tragedy is what it does to the innocent lives brought into a maelstrom of chaos.

[@kimuhuivy]

the wife had God and so she got a man who has God as well,and JP found a good wife,given to him by God,find God

[@Tsun4miGun]

That is why he gave more lecture for men than women, because men need more lesson to acting like a real man!

[@smalik4854]

True true true

[@beyondher]

That's so well said, I agree. It's so important for women to work on their issues before having children. I am 39 and still childless because I spent the ages of 22 to 35 working on my major emotional/psychological issues caused by bad parenting. If I don't manage to find a partner and have kids now, at least I will die knowing that I didn't leave a legacy and pain and suffering for my children. I can grow old and die with a peaceful heart, which is better than experiencing the so-called 'fulfilment' of procreating.

[@evaoliveira8579]

FACTS! As Brilliant as Jordan is, his own personal marital success has shielded/clouded him from seeing the realities of the rest of the world. He and his wife are so blessed to have each other. If we all had this I’m sure most of us would be glad to live out his ideal world.

[@indiegrungefolkstuff1446]

I'm just going to add that the "waking up at thirty wanting a life" isn't limited to just women.

[@timothyn4699]

Sure, but it affects women a lot more in regards to the dating/family side of things, so women can't afford as much to delay

[@lolibreeder5265]

@@timothyn4699 biological clock or " the wall".

[@jannyx6363]

@@timothyn4699 Half of the infertility problems come from men. Age is a big factor.

[@run4508]

@@timothyn4699 also look up how the sperm degrades with a man's age its two-way street , they can still have kids of you know beta qualities

[@user-jf4xi4tv3q]

@@timothyn4699 my aunt got pregnant at 43 what are you talking about? She wanted abortion but they kid was stubborn and now he's 17 and I love him sooo much My uncle's sperms stopped being fertile at 50 Yes period mostly stops after 45 But men would have it hard to get it "hard" once a year after 45- 50 too, let alone fertility. Yall exaggerating with your 30 theory that's not how womb works but ok I guess, yall trying to brainwash younger girls to "take you" when you hit your own wall, good luck with that.

[@luxxy209]

Genuinely I am 30 now and my careers os feeling more important. I don’t have a maternal bone for now. Maybe I will feel differently or not. My point is: not every 30 year old girl wants the same. Why not tell girls: “hey, doing everything is hard, decide what you want wisely. “

[@ladylefteye]

I’m 33 and I don’t want kids. I never had baby fever. Just my preference. I enjoy my career, but that’s not the main reason why I don’t want kids. For women who want them that’s great 😃

[@timothyn4699]

It's better to tell women to figure out early what they want in life, I'd there's a chance you want kids, it's way better to start seeking a mate and consider having kids while young rather than later.

[@ladylefteye]

@@timothyn4699 I agree

[@ThingsILikke]

Me too- and honestly this story is a little incredulous. A woman making partner at 30? That can happen? If so good for her but I've never seen a successful trial attorney, male or female, under 37.

[@matlhatsesets2089]

@@timothyn4699 I We should be telling both men and women to find their purpose in life before having kids. If you feel that marriage and kids will give you a purpose then do it. You can have kids later in life. The science is there to support it. You might be a bit tired, but you'll be busy at 65.

[@bobmarker6812]

When I was a teen, I knew a few adults that didn't have kid's and were very happy. I knew then it was a no brainer. Made my childfree decision permanent @ 22. Now almost 60, life is GREAT. A lot of people my age are financially helping their kid's and/or raising grandkid's.

[@ananastea]

Is a financial concern your only concern? The solution could’ve been to get a higher-paying career and enjoy the both worlds.

[@bobmarker6812]

@@ananastea No, I didn't want the responsibility. I just had no reason to want kid's.

[@ananastea]

bob marker I guess they can be a cool friend once they grow up if raised right, which may be a good long-term investment in the quality of your own life - but to each their own

[@alexislane1035]

Well just be glad your parents didn't think this way

[@bobmarker6812]

@@alexislane1035 If they did I just wouldn't be here and I wouldn't know anyway.

[@alexyeskov7601]

why do you compare very high-profile to being a mum as the only two possible alternatives? you can have an average job and be a just fine mother

[@illegal5745]

Y dont do the same

[@notamused3715]

I think working part-time at a child friendly job once all your kids are at school would be OK but most employers these days are not willing to accommodate the needs of mothers and kids. For instance, my mum was a cleaner for a while and she was allowed bring me in the school holidays and stay at home with me when I was ill. I on the other hand had a couple of part-time jobs but only one I could bring my child with me to in school holidays. Unless one of the grandmothers is able and willing to step in during school holidays and when the kids are poorly, a working mum usually has to give up the job because you can't leave kids at home on their own, especially if they're ill. No mother should be FORCED to work outside the home but many working class mums have no choice today,even if they're married because of the extortionate cost of rents, electric etc. These women don't work because they want to so much as have to!

[@saradejesus1276]

That is my point. They only have to quit if they have an useless husband.

[@notamused3715]

@@saradejesus1276 What if the husband is working full-time? For single mums like I was,unless your own mother is willing and able to child-mind,it's impossible to keep most jobs as they don't pay enough to afford professional childare and even then,professional childcarers won't mind your child if they're ill; poorly children want their mums anyway.

[@saradejesus1276]

Alex you are right. My point is. The better the salary the easier is to get your houshold obbligations done. ☺ Money is time.

[@kirkheron1041]

My mom worked throughout all three of her children's childhoods, and was always there when we needed her. She wasn't there to make dinner every day, but she and my dad worked the schedule out. She was a receptionist at a hospital, and she would consider that to be a career, not simply a "job". She loved working, and I think it's super shitty to just consider vocations like lawyers to be "careers"

[@iamtanmay]

'High end careers', not 'careers'. A receptionist and a CEO/High end Lawyer are not the same things. One is a career where you can raise a family, the other is one where you have to put work first, and sacrifice your family. The feminist narrative of women CEOs and top politicians forgets this crucial part. You cannot have both a high end career and a family. Sorry, that's reality.

[@janetlee9709]

OneManFlashMob I’ll be fine. I hate kids anyways.

[@rantstips9231]

dude its a dang job, you go in do your work and get payed hourly. Because its not based on results i.e Receptionist (not to belittle anyone that is one) Its just the TRUTH ! A career is where you can build and keep building and normally work 55+ hr days based on Salary i.e "results not time. Face the facts or be stuck in the matrix forever kid. You want GOOD money ????? be prepared to sacrifice your time and leisure activity's

[@monicaangelini3324]

@@iamtanmay you are sooooo wrong. Painful you dodnt grasp the content of the comment

[@nourhansalloum3991]

Kirk Heron it depends on the accurate definition of careers

[@tamarawest6203]

At 30 I was not at all thinking about having a baby. I was winning at life achieving many of my dreams and ambitions that had nothing to do with settling down. At 34, life is much the same, not thinking about giving birth and still living a very happy and satisfying life. If I was to have a baby at 30 this would have been a disaster.

[@norrylorry9249]

Adopt me then 😔. I’m 20, need a peaceful home

[@jameswheat4225]

You're dead wrong and already past the baby making age. Teens and 20s are when the female body is meant to have a baby, by your age the danger for the mother and baby skyrockets, I'm sorry you missed your time to have a child of your own but you should definitely think twice about your mindset to warn other young women

[@Baba-vk7lr]

James Wheat she’s happy without kids

[@rebeccanitta]

@James Wheat jfc, she said she didn’t want one why lament for her? Amber heard just had one no way is she past it what a stupid ass statement to make.

[@altaisrs2857]

@@jameswheat4225 Seems to me you shouldn't have skipped biology class.

[@juliamarlin5612]

I have zero desire to have kids so it's not so much that I'm choosing a career over motherhood but simply doing what I always planned to do.

[@soyveritas8262]

Right! It's so bizarre that people like this guy think all women want the same things. The idea he thinks he can advise women is absolutely laughable. "Oh no! Women over 40 will find they have nothing to do without children. Whatever will they do?" So stupid.

[@darkknight5217]

@@soyveritas8262 he is psychologist

[@soyveritas8262]

@@darkknight5217 Which makes his advice even more dangerous because it's lacking. He did not ground his comments in empirical evidence of any kind. A "psychologist" who believes a woman over 40 w/o children will be unhappy and/or will have nothing to look forward to, is a quack. He cannot support such a claim with research, nor can anyone.

[@mohamstaz3618]

This is the only time I've actually disagreed with Dr. Peterson. I've never been interested in motherhood, and I don't think you absolutely need grandchildren to keep you going in your 50s and up. I look at my own mother who is 54 with 2 grandchildren, and she tries like hell to not have to babysit because it's too much. She just wants to enjoy her own hobbies and her own life after having raised four kids, one with a major disability who will live at home with my mother until one of them passes away. My husband and I are just going to sock away money until we retire, and then pay for an assisted living facility when we are absolutely too old to take care of ourselves anymore. If having kids is the only meaning to life, that's pretty sad.

[@nobody46820]

Congratulations! Make sure you have agency and don't blame Men for your bad choices.

[@Juodittea]

I have to take medication for schizoaffective disorder. 1) It is not recommended to get pregnant while taking said medication 2) I don't want my children to suffer the same illness (it runs in my family)

[@Erowens98]

trasciende it is very noble to remove one's genes from the pool if they're defective, not many have the mental fortitude for it and end up with kids with even more severe issues. I tip my hat to you.

[@themayqueen666]

That's great! There are enough sickos out there. Don't need any other

[@ihavetubes]

My mother has Schizoaffective and had me and my sister, it was a hard life but I am happy my mom had us.

[@JasmineJeane]

[@fredericmoresmau4303]

And thats a truth.... they madè a normal 20sth relationship impossible.......... And now they dont fucking care..... thryre turning asshole mode

[@alessandramon8452]

What about me? I’m a “woman at thirty”. I’ve never been a career driven woman. I do love my job but I’ve never considered it my priority in life. I live a happy and fulfilling life but I’ve always wanted a good healthy relationship and a family. However, I never meet / date men who are ready for a real commitment. Let alone a family. I know this because I keep in touch with then on social media and they don’t seem to want to settle with anyone in particular. Same story happens to so many of my friends. So, what’s actually the problem and what can be done about it if my situation is not the one this guy is describing?

[@MMDelta9]

Has it occurred to you that the problem might be your attitude towards the men you meet? Because men only push themselves into family commitment if a woman is willing to make it worth their while. If the guys on your facebook feed don't seem interested in families, it's probably because all the women in their lives are like you and not interested in them or having any kind of relationship with them. Just sayin...

[@Rob-fp3xq]

When you were in ur twenties..you definitely had guys willing to commit to you but you probably threw those opportunities away thinking you had all the time. Gets tougher dating in your 30s. Men in their 30s are in their prime and are snatching up younger women. That’s the cold hard truth.

[@taragorm8097]

Wow. Looking at the male responses here, I see what you mean.

[@Rob-fp3xq]

tara gorm these are biological truths..the truths hurts sweetheart..look at the dating data. Men prefer younger fertile beautiful women. Men in their 30s are more seasoned financially and mature so they attract many women. And when you are spoiled for choice you go with ur true desires. Shouldn’t have been slutting it up in ur twenties and lock down that high value man who was pursuing you in ur twenties.

[@alessandramon8452]

tara gorm Yeah! From the comments I can see that men who like to believe this narrative are the ones who have been rejected countless times. They prefer to believe that women who reject them are “sluts” who are forever doomed for rejecting them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@thevintagekitty]

Whenever I hear these speeches about 'people must have children' nothing in life matters, and it always blows me away the insensitivity to the fact that there are A TON of people who CANNOT have children. Then what? Their lives are meaningless? Stupid. Also, I do agree that society lies to people (not just women) that "you can have it all". Well, that is incredibly difficult and in western society, both parents must work (in most households) and it doesn't matter if you have a "career" or a "job", you are still working 40 hours a week. I know a lot of people who are close to nervous breakdowns due to financial stress of daycare, lack of sleep etc because they didn't realize how hard it would be to work full time with several children.

[@jcantonelli1]

@Jennifer Walsh You say that as if it's a guarantee that your children will want to be around you at 70 - or you, them. If you're banking on that your entire life, not only are you burdening your children with your expectations of what "life is supposed to look like", but you may also be setting yourself up for crushing disappointment. Contentment is found within, and all that...

[@jcantonelli1]

@Jennifer Walsh Can you see Texas from up there on your high horse? Children are individuals who make their own decisions in life, good or bad. Thanks for letting everyone know, though, that you're a self-righteous bigot.

[@beyondher]

@Jennifer Walsh A lot of people wake up in their 70's alone without family around, even if they have kids. Their kids could be living far away and busy with their own lives. That's why it's important to live in a community, that is family.

[@dustyandsneezing]

Hey I know what you’re saying and it’s kind of like he’s saying everybody should have children but maybe helping out with a niece or nephew would be a nice way to go about it. There are rare and unfortunate circumstances that adults can’t have children. That’s true. But maybe the idea behind it is to help raise community by helping children grow up to be good adults regardless if you have a child or not. I’m only in my mid 20s and I’ve listened to all kind of adults that were trying to teach stubborn me about something. Especially my aunts and uncles

[@altaisrs2857]

@La Dolce Vita Obviously, you don't know actual LOVE AND COMPASSION!!11, because you expect your kids to sacrifice their own lives for you. You are raising them to care for you, not because you actually love children.

[@HotaraTakeo]

Peterson said himself that it's very hard to have good relationship and a career. That's why women pick a career. Because being a single mother while guy who promised forever got bored or "it's too hard" is having his carier. Woman has to work kids or no kids. Most men are just not reliable in the long run (18 years at least). Never pick man instead of you'r job prospects.

[@DaniCalifornia44]

HotaraTakeo I could not disagree more with this piece of advice. At first, there’s far more to life than a well paying job or a perceived career. I would instead say: do whatever makes you content on the long run. If it is being in a harmonious relationship, let it be. Secondly, you assume that one has better chances in reaching their career goal and be fulfilled at some point compared to finding a lasting relationship that provides a wide spectrum of joy through life. Even if 40% of marriages succeed, I would say only 3-4% of people have realized a career at the end, the rest of the population is only enslaved by this unfair system of distribution called capitalism.

[@sarafritsch123]

I disagree. I think as women we need to be a lot better at choosing the right men and laying down boundaries. Pay attention to actions instead of promises. A lot of us struggle with self esteem which is why it’s hard to ask for what we deserve

[@thiacari]

Just think if men were told "chuck the career, get an ok job, and focus on creating a loving family! You don't need money or friends for the rest of your life!" 😂😂

[@DaniCalifornia44]

Anna C there is nothing to laugh at, a lot of men choose that way. How do friends come together with career in your point though?

[@lunawind2105]

If a women is able to choose the right man, he will respect her dreams enough to allow the women to have autonomy.

[@MargueriteInscoe]

I have two awesome kids and a fulfilling profession. It isn't always easy but the rewards are worth it. There's no right or wrong in choosing to have kids, but make it an informed decision instead of acting on feelings. Life is what you make of it. Love is a choice, not an emotion. Make decisions, no matter how uncomfortable they are, you know you won't regret later (applies to more than having kids or not). An unselfish life is a fulfilled one (and it can be done with or without kids). No one regrets having done their best even when life delivers some knockout blows.

[@kristenjohns8498]

Love is both

[@nishaad771993]

Finally someone in the comment section who talks sense....not from the center of reaction (like debating pros and cons of some debate) but with a sense of understanding.......

[@norrylorry9249]

If you need to adopt one more adopt me 😔, I’m 20 and need a happy family and home 💔

[@aloowalia2849]

How do you manage both

[@DrVein]

I can think of about 99,000,000 things to do when I'm 45 other than having babies.

[@TheWorldsStage]

I got 99,000,000 things but a kid ain't one

[@astrobros4196]

That's good because at 45 you won't be having shit

[@badass6300]

and how many of them are materialistic and hedonistic and short term?

[@irene.9278]

I'll be turning 32 this year. I have a job because I wasn't raised to live on handouts and cannot stand to be a burden especially to a partner. Been in dates and relationships that haven't worked out, and I don't sleep around because I think it's terrifying to catch something that will change life permanently. I'd love to have a husband by now, but I haven't met anyone that clicks with me. I like character and integrity in a man, not wealth and looks. Unfortunately, however I am just doesn't cut it.

[@laqueen1229]

Being overly independent is a trauma response...when you meet the right man, he will naturally want to protect/provide/please you and if you want to you can let go and focus on care taker role.

[@GodofDisco]

I think you'd do just great if the way you presented yourself here is true. When I first married my wife we were both only making $25k and 19k respectively lol. But now 5 years later I make six figures running my own business and she makes 50k. I'd love my wife if she made nothing and she'd love me if I made nothing. We're a team. Teamwork! So on that basis, I think you can make most any situation work and if you ever HAD to leave your job because your family needed it, by that time you'd already be in a trusting situation and recognize you can always pick it back up. But more likely you just make it work with what you've got and do a bit of both, maybe scale back a few hours. I am a man and I still intend to scale back my hours a bit when I have kids, making money is great but we already do so well that at some point an extra hour with my kids is worth more than $$. So all this to say, you're doing the right thing by waiting until someone has good character and you working on your character now is the absolute best thing you can do to prepare so you make sure neither of you ever gives up and as long as you stay comitted two people can accomplish anything.

[@irene.9278]

@Andrew Hashbert lol. That actually made me laugh.

[@irene.9278]

@@GodofDisco Yeah I’ve seen compromises where someone would have to leave work to take care of family. If that would be me, that’s not particularly an apocalyptic event. 😂 Finances would have to be considered if both people need to work and all that or if someone needs to cut back hours (even if that would be me). I come from a family-oriented background and culture. Whatever works, you know? If anything I understand what it takes to pay your own bills and when you have a spouse and eventually a family, it’s tough to put so much financial pressure on just 1 person.

[@georgejohn3465]

There is only one life, live the way your heart desires!!!

[@booksboundnoveljourneys1122]

Thank you so much for saying that. As a woman with more family oriented hopes and dreams instead of career oriented hopes and dreams, seeing all these negative comments makes me sad, but seeing your comment made me happy and hopeful. I needed to hear it.

[@badass6300]

And nowadays most people do, ignoring all biological factors, instincts and their nature and end up lonely, depressed and even suicidal with tons of regrets.

[@Deadgod91]

Yeh but the problem is that our desires never end. It's always going moving from one desire to another. One day heart wants a luxirious apartment, next day heart wants an electric car, next day a hot GF and another day PS5. It's better to exercise some measure of self-control.

[@badass6300]

@@Deadgod91 absolutely. And it's proven time and time again that people live better lives for it. Less stressed, happier, more peaceful lives.

[@Lioness_Es]

Just be mindful and take everything with a grain of salt. The heart can be very deceiving!

[@kanchanmala8488]

lets men and women help each other in every walks of life. Period.

[@DsDs-nu7nw]

Women don't cooperate in 20s . But then they beg in 30s

[@JohnDoe-jt5lb]

Sure. Stop making lies about how my gender has oppressed you (especially since we have and continue to protect and support you) and we'll talk.

[@danyboy4735]

Stop blaming MEN for everything and then talk while we walk .

[@adflix424]

@@danyboy4735 the OP is a man as well 😂

[@adflix424]

@@JohnDoe-jt5lb the oppressor and the protector came from the same gender demography, so don't generalize the way feminists generalize all men as evil

[@bellebreeze]

To that highly creative women who worries about having children and the consequences of that lifestyle, I can confirm that having children is not necessary for fulfillment. Go with what is best for you and don't get sucked into the brainwashing of society. Women are not obligated to have children. It's a choice.

[@McBain86]

Procreating is a biological drive that has existed long before any societal "brainwashing" as you so eloquently put it. Choosing not to have children is choosing to remove yourself from the gene pool. To each their own, but to me it just sounds like you're a case of misery loving company and want to draw as many other women into your sordid dead-end existence as possible.

[@eartianwerewolf]

Also though it's important to tell women that they can have kids and have a career and they don't have to choose because ti is possible. I know many female artists with kids, but they have to have supportive people around them. :)

[@eartianwerewolf]

Damn McBain, not having kids isn't that dramatic. You can influence life in different ways. Lets not pretend that those who have kids have this huge influence or something, lol. Plenty of childless people can leave impact through their ideas :). And how they influence the lives of others.

[@McBain86]

@eartianwerefwolf. Keep telling yourself that "not having kids isn't that dramatic". It's nonsense. It IS that dramatic. YOU owe your very existence to the decision of someone to have kids. You wouldn't be here to write your asinine comment if your parents had decided to be genetic dead-ends like you're advocating people be.

[@lemonspring6425]

@GeminiNeils : I agree. Self actualisation leads to fulfillment. Society can have 10,000 views on your choices and decisions, they can claim you are miserable despite you trying to prove to them that you are actually happy. Ultimately, only you own your own path to happiness. No one else has a claim over it.

[@heatherfeather9951]

What he is really saying is that it's impossible to be a servant to your job and then also be a servant to one's husband (because that's the only permissible role for women according to him). But he ignores the reasons WHY women started to pursue careers and sought to secure their own financial security- because men were unwilling and unable to do that for them. In fact many men were just abandoning their wives for a younger woman, leaving her with children to support. There's no going back to the old system, like it or not.

[@freespirit-111]

I agree. Fear of abandonment fueled my decision to have only one child, and a tubal. My dad was not present in my life. Thankfully its my husbands only child, and our son is his world.

[@heatherfeather9951]

@@freespirit-111 Lol, I didn't have a fear of abandonment, I KNEW it was going to happen and prepared for it. Mr. Petersen is making sweeping generalizations about how much worse off single women are. He never mentions married women who are cheated on, treated like doormats or physically abused. There are in fact many women who wish they had financial independence.

[@freespirit-111]

@@heatherfeather9951 I concur. My aunt was physically abused as well, but kept popping babies out. She stayed until she had a mental breakdown and had to be hospitalized. She eventually left that monster, but was broke with no job skills and 6 kids to take care of. This to me is hell on earth. Ladies have to beware. Life is uncertain even with a provider husband. Me personally, I can't and won't do it all.. you're a whole person with or without kids, besides, women usually do the brunt of the work while hubby still gets to go to the gym, hang out with his buddies etc. Not saying that we can't carve out them for the gym, but it's more difficult. Im just not wired to have lots of kids and work eight hours a day and take care of a home... My decision to have one kid would still remain the same even if I was married to a millionaire. Yeah, he could leave me for a younger woman, etc. Point is I need time just to stare into space and do nothing...lol

[@AlambushaShukla]

Exactly, and these topics are ignored as if women have lived their lives like Queens in past centuries. They ignore it so much, as if a man once married, will be the ideal robot, who will follow the Ideal archetype that JBP imagines in his head.

[@Tennababy]

Upon divorce usually later in life, men's health decline cause they don't have someone to do the emotional labour for them, make sure they visit the doctor as well as the ability to create close relations with people. On the other hand women's health improve upon divorce. This is marriage too.

[@mrigamonmrigamon2615]

Career over family anyday. Independent life is sooo much better than coping up with a family.....family won't guarantee you happiness, but knowing that you don't have to eat anyone's shit definitely will.

[@soundbite290]

Glad I never had children, no regrets. But total respect for those that do. However, I was always content with my lot and tried my best. Moral of everything, life is short, enjoy it. *Do be prepared for a societal backlash if you opt out of parenthood. A lot of people resent being tied down with kids, and hate that you have no responsibilities, especially as a woman in your 40's. You will get called all kinds, so keep your heart sweet but have a tough exterior.

[@HypnoChode74]

sound bite I would just tell these people to drop dead..... just because I made the wise choice not to have hungry mouths to feed that waste my money and energy I made the right choice. Their just jealous because they made a stupid choice and suffer for it.

[@doctordarcy8385]

Same. :) 40 years old, and have been with my husband for 20 years. 0 kids, no regrets.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

@@doctordarcy8385 Why get married if you don't plan to have children? What's the point?

[@doctordarcy8385]

@@treacherousjslither6920 Because I love my partner, and wanted to spend my life with him?

[@treacherousjslither6920]

@@doctordarcy8385 Is marriage necessary for that though? Couldn't you have simply stayed together without getting married?

[@DemonRuby]

No need to complicate things.. Those women who want to have children, should have kids! Women like me who never wanted to have children, should stay child free. Let everyone make their decisions and just stop telling each other what we are supposed or not supposed to do! Live and let others live! Women do not have an obligation to be a mother only because they are women. If someone chooses career over kids, good for them. If others choose kids over career - good for them too. If I do not choose career but simply do NOT want children-good for me.

[@Emma-py8qe]

Agreed- but that idea triggers a lot of 'men'.

[@lucyoneil7534]

Did I just read a rational, level-headed, non-misogynistic comment under a Jorden Peterson video ?! 😲

[@DemonRuby]

I like Mr Peterson a lot and respect him, but it doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.. Things like having/not having children is extremely personal decision, which depends on various personal reasons and circumstances, it is not quite right to say what is wrong and what is right. Both men and women should be free in their choices, no matter what others think, as it's not their life..

[@chaddad1236]

I can agree with that, however, there are a lot of people out there that feel they are wasting their life even though they have a great career and marriage, but they can't put a finger on the problem. His message is for them.

[@MoSec9]

First name Last name I doubt that it triggers lots of men. As long as men get sex they don’t give a shit what you do. There are plenty of women that are willing and eager to have kids when men are ready to have them. I’m not single anymore but when I was I liked less women that talked about having children. You guys over think shit. Men only care about the topic when it’s an intellectual debate about the future of society or the human race perhaps. They care not when a woman tell them “I just want to have fun”. Au contraire. Besides, I never liked condoms anyway...so it’s nice to know the lady is determined not to get pregnant. I don’t mean to be an asshole. Just hoping that you guys wake the f up and stop over analyzing men. Women are more complicated, yet men don’t spent nearly as much time dissecting and assuming what they might be feeling about this or that. And you’re wrong most of the time anyway. Not saying there isn’t a minority that gets “triggered” like you say because of usually some religious belief. But even these type of men don’t genuinely give a shit that much. They just feel like they have to do their duty of responding or shouting or even getting violent...which is the same reaction to abortion, gays...the usual.

[@hydra-br5fl]

I am a mother to a 1 year old son and a law student. I balance my time horrìbly and cram a lot. I take care of him and play with him most of the time and study while he is sleeping. It's really exhausting but i never been happier when I am with my son. Personally, i would rather be a stay at home mom but i can't afford to quit. The happiest time of my life is when I am with my baby. Really precious time. Sacrifices are more than worth it.

[@galikechichian1005]

Love the way you approach life! Keep it up

[@swiftkarma4436]

Take one moment and time. Cry if you have to. Fall down and get back up. You've got this thing mama.

[@AnomisMiss]

Another amusing thing as I read the commentaries is men both writing “let those stupid women have careers - we’ll date the next generation” as well as “we don’t want women to be parasites”. So women are damned if they do, damned if they don’t, really. Whereas if you’re a guy, pursuing a career gets you women - it’s a win-win as opposed to women’s lose/lose. This is some unfairness feminism could look into.

[@rosebalm8498]

@@aquamenagerie If you want a women to cook clean and take care of the house, then you need to be providing. Otherwise what you are writing is the woman does everything and you just do the bare minimum. If she is working, then you take care of the kids and house too! No woman in the right minds would settle for that nonsense.

[@AnomisMiss]

Flick Rigour please re-read my first message to understand my point. If you came home to a woman that had been at work all day - maybe less tired because she did better at school so got an easier job than you that paid more - what would you think of that? Furthermore, in the above scenario, who would then take care of the chores and children and shopping and the rest of the things you mentioned? I hope you’re not suggesting the wife has to have a career AND do the « ideal wife » stuff you mentioned too if the husband only does the career thing and then nothing. That’s ridiculous. Especially if the guy’s not competent enough to get an easier job to allow him to do so. Even if we CAN manage twice as much as our husbands - why the hell would we? 😂 Another issue is that what you said an ideal wife does is boring to some women. What if women don’t want to clean and shop all day? What then? Force women to do something that makes them miserable just so men can get their « perfect wife »? Not happening. So we need another solution. Newsflash: women don’t want men that have to work in the sun for 10 hours a day anyway. We want men who can choose what job they work because competence is attractive. It’s biological and not women’s fault - just like it’s not men’s fault that they’re attracted to mostly beauty in women. Now seriously I would like to see one day my initial point addressed finally - women are in a lose/lose situation here, whereas for men it’s win-win. It’s not fair and I think both genders will be unhappy until we deal with it.

[@evaoliveira8579]

Flick Rigour raising children is already a 24hr job that takes a toll on your mind and body. And you want us to feel sorry for your little 10hr a day job. Good luck! LMAO 😂

[@GodofDisco]

This will probably fall on death ears but. The truth is everyone always feels like they're the one doing everything in a marriage no matter how equitable it is. If ya'll singles would wrap your mind around that ahead of time, it'd save you a lot of headache. I could hold over my wife all the things I do to keep the household together and she could hold over me all the things she does to keep the household together.... or we could recognize we are a team facing the monolith of life together and we damned well can't afford to turn on each other. All these comments about who is right and what is "fair" are pointless in reality, you will feel fully demanded of in marriage and like anything else in life it won't be or feel fair, but it'll be great.

[@Aaron_R]

It's not lose/lose for women. I never look down upon stay at home mom's. It's mostly other women (brainwashed with feminism) that look down on stay at home mom's and academics (who don't know how to make money outside of academia). Anyway most men don't care about your career. It adds little to no value in a man's eyes. Men want youth, sex, and beauty, in the short term and long term someone who is compatible, values family/kids, and corporative. A career women matches well with a stay at home dad. The problem is she isn't attracted (sexually) to the stay at home dad. A career man matches well with a stay at home women. Feminism teaches women to pursue careers. This one of the fundamental reasons why the west is failing. If we change our expectations, society will win though. It's like you have a baseball team and everyone wants to play first base. The truth is most of the career women are suffering and are unhappy, (many are childless), and the government school/daycare is raising their kids.

[@AngelicaMelara]

Society is a lie. No escape , just make life the best you can

[@leevenable8628]

Linda Bella I wouldn't call it a lie, it exists but I agree just make it as good as you can.

[@MrsGreyhorse]

I bet it gave you the internet connection though. So that you could channel your wisdom to us.

[@kevantewhite7510]

Angie M. ur smart

[@SuburbanoidMisfit111]

What does that mean tho Helen? Witty for pre K, yes. But, society also gave us rape and nukes.

[@suzie5813]

Angie M. Seriously

[@blahhoop8280]

I’m 40 and fine with not having kids. I’m just not wired for them, but I do feel empathy for women who regret it.

[@RoseMiah9191]

I can‘t have kids with my partner. There‘s struggles like this too. But we stayed strong and together. Should i say life is useless now cus i wont be a mother ever? No- you gotta make the best out of it and find new perspectives.

[@RoseMiah9191]

Honestly i think there is aloooot of women who regret it...in no way meant to be mean but they really take all your attention and energy.

[@not_bond007]

There are women who regret motherhood too, only society tends to ignore such facts and statements and purely focuses on women who regret being childless, since woman suppose to "naturally love and want children". Check out the book "Regretting Motherhood" by Orna Donath it gives great perspective especially for those who never wanted to have kids. It gave me more confidence in my choice too, I always knew children is not something I'll ever want for myself.

[@Sorekneecap]

@@not_bond007 I have to check out the book. Thank you

[@abdullahfaraj8976]

@@not_bond007 so live to ourself only

[@23magneta]

Many men and women regret marriage and having kids. For some people, dedicating their life to their career is what makes them happiest while marriage and kids will make them miserable. The key is to know what YOU want out of life. Do not marry and have kids because you think that's what you're supposed to do. Remember you are the one who has to endure the marriage and raise the kids. Be sure you are up to the challenge. Ladies, make sure you have an education and actual job skills before you marry. There are no guarantees in life. Do not become financially dependent on your spouse. Some women get lucky and marry a wonderful man who will never leave them. Chances are you won't be among this lucky 1%. Most women will either be stuck in an unhappy marriage or their husband will leave them once their wife reaches 40. This is the reality. The same applies to men. Many men absolutely cannot stand their wives and get tired of the responsibilities of marriage. You must learn to be happy on your own and have realistic expectations of marriage. Marriage will NOT make you happy. Your spouse will NOT fulfill all your needs. You are solely responsible for your own happiness. Most men and women out there are not marriage material. Expect that you are likely to marry someone who has many undesirable traits that will make marriage even more difficult. If you are not willing to settle for less, then marriage is not for you.

[@zuchotheghost]

Lol, career makes you happy. Welp I guess getting yelled at by your boss makes u happier

[@ladylefteye]

@@zuchotheghost not every woman is getting yelled at their boss. Most of these jobs treat their employees very well. On the other hand a lot of women are starting their own businesses.

[@zuchotheghost]

@@ladylefteye only fan is not a start up

[@MissAtson]

@@zuchotheghost What kind of companies have you been working at where you get yelled at by your boss? Maybe it's time for a career change?

[@sunmolaa]

Thank you so much , being a mom is not for me and I guess I've known this for a while . I'd love to get married though and be a family just with my husband but regardless of whatever happens , I'll definitely strive to be able to take care of myself financially .

[@Saper4ik]

If you've chosen a career, you can always stop it and have kids. But if you've chosen kids over a career, you can't stop and say - oopsie, I've changed my mind.

[@celestialcircledance]

Woman have a biological clock . With modern technical advances some woman choose to delay it but that's not a feasible option for everyone and still comes with more complications as they age .

[@celestialcircledance]

@az_koala Biology has to play an important role for woman who want there own biological kids but not everyone does or feels like they can support them . I personally decided not to .

[@physiobr9227]

That is it! Well said!

[@IronwaveStudios]

No you can't always stop and have kids. Once a woman gets to her 40's she'd be lucky to have more than one kid. And even then, being old while your kid is still young is not that fun. And who wants only one kid? That requires way more attention and interaction on the parent's part because the kid has no siblings to socialize with on a blood-related level. Choose a career that allows you to have kids at the same time. Or have your kids young (20s and early 30s) and then when they get old enough to fend for themselves, you will still have time in your life to have a very fulfilling career PLUS a fulfilling family life. I think that is the best path a mother can take.

[@svasianfilipiname6603]

No you can't, that is where you are wrong. If you want biological children, it's best to have them in your 20s, 30's is still okay but be prepared for added pregnancy and conception problems in your 40's and up! A career can be had in your 40s and 50's too and so can a job. Money is money. Time and biology should ALWAYS trump that.

[@tulinbeyduz920]

I had my daughter at 34 .. I wasn’t particularly maternal but nothing beats the feeling as having this beautiful child . I’m glad I worked hard in my twenties and bought a house . My relationship has since ended .. buy boy , this child has given me purpose and love . Perhaps from all the foster care homes I lived in as a child .. I have somehow found some beauty and innocence in this world . I don’t have to be like the mother I had . I can give and receive love . I have found simplicity in my home hair salon my dogs and my child . Anything else is a bonus , even if if single for the rest of my life . I have truly found freedom and happiness from my terrible beginning of 7 foster homes and a mother that showed no love and a schizophrenic father . I don’t know how I made it but I have .

[@tulinbeyduz920]

Rammoshe my daughter sees her father twice a week and stays at her dads house 3 nights a fortnight .

[@mizzmini45]

Same brainwashed timeline on having children lol

[@julielin4496]

respect to you mam!

[@tulinbeyduz920]

@@julielin4496 thanks 🙏

[@drms1767]

More power to you❤

[@MsYolost]

Can't we just accept that every woman is different and may want different things? Having a career and no children is fine. Having a career and children is fine. Having no career and no children is fine. having no career and children is fine. Doing whatever feels right to you is fine. Why do we have to press social 'norms' on everyone? Let people just be happy

[@mattisonhale6227]

Because you fools have been pushing this relativism for about two decades and it isn't working. It tells people that there is no meaning to life, because "just do whatever makes you happy." Social norms exist to provide direction and protection against chaos. People like you are the problem, not the solution.

[@leeszuyuen7549]

"Having no career and no children is fine." I don't see anyone would want this.

[@cmarqueche]

Lee Szu Yuen that’s fine.

[@kristenjohns8498]

Mattison Hale miserable parents can raise unbalanced children and can damage them.

[@maryamkhan4341]

@@mattisonhale6227 what problem?? what fools? how tf is this affecting you? they can do whatever they want, as can you. there's no bible for this shit telling us what we can and cannot do with OUR OWN lives. if you wanna live ur version of ur perfect life then good. go live it. don't tell us what to do.

[@cassierybka9200]

I decided motherhood first. It was hard bc I felt pressure from society to put my work first. But raising my children, homeschooling them, has given me the courage to really define what I truly want to do. When it’s time to move forward, I won’t waste time searching for myself. I’ll already know who I am. My kids helped me with that.

[@bella3008]

Bravo.

[@princesssp17]

"We live as if we only exist when we're young" facts Dr. Peterson!

[@ChrisKogos]

I read the title as "women are thirsty"

[@willow8186]

Lol, bet you were a bit disappointed in the video then, huh? XD

[@morganrobinson2436]

I did too😂😂. I can understand why though.

[@Nickster292]

i mean... some are?

[@h439]

I thought it was thirsty until I read your comment.

[@Weather-more]

@@willow8186 Why would he? He was worried they were dehydrated for sure and is relieved now.

[@124085]

I have a lot of respect for Peterson and while I do not doubt that he keeps track of current trends the fact of the matter is that he will always see that data through an older lens. He's from an older generation and has more traditional views and that's perfectly fine. His lectures have helped thousands of young people myself included find fulfillment in responsibility. But I also think it's important to acknowledge that like everyone he has some sort of bias. The fact of the matter is that for whatever reason you attribute, this generation is a lot less able (financially and mentally) and a lot less enthusiastic about children. This may sound scary at first but just as people change as they age our society is also changing as it advances. We simply don't need as many children as we once did. Degrees have become inflated and technology is gradually replacing manual labor. Our first responsibility should be committing ourselves to improving the quality of life of those who are here and worry less about birthing more.

[@Erowens98]

The problem is sustaining our quality of life without replacing population. If western families are only having 1.6 kids, our economy will suffer as the old and retired outnumber the young workers. And that's before you get into details like civilized western cultures being massively outnumbered by people with next to no education. We need to increase Western birthrates to replacement levels if we want to maintain our economy, and then invest in the education of third world shitholes to drop their birthrates and bring their quality of life up to par.

[@laceyenglish6702]

I absolutely agree. I have massive respect for him, so when I first heard him talking about women oughting to have children, I was perplexed. I thought about it for a while, because I respect his mind, education, and experience, and I knew that writing him off would be foolish. What I realized is that he's describing what he's seen in his clinical practice. These are simply his observations from his experience and knowledge as a psychologist. From a biological standpoint, yes women are made for having children. However, we don't need the extra population, especially with unskilled labour being replaced by tech. This might be why our generation isn't so keen on having children...could it be that we're shifting, even on a biological level? It's an interesting idea anyway. I do think that we're in a new era, so women who are 40+ today may not be the same as my generation when we're 40. Plus, although I agree with 90% Dr Peterson's opinions, I have a very different worldview, so I'm likely going to find meaning in different places.

[@Erowens98]

Lacey English we do and don't need children. Our economy is designed to function with a stable/increase population, so the current birthrates simply aren't sufficient, which is why governments allow mass immigration despite its obvious shortcomings. However you are also correct in that low skilled labour is becoming far less needed.

[@allisonorin8849]

Great point. I too respect Peterson but living amidst sweeping change has caused us all to reconsider life choices. Scrolling through the comments, I see a fair amount of vitriol but I think most of us are just trying to discern how to navigate it all.

[@Pedritox0953]

I dont know what people believes when say carreer... well in most case is a job in exchange of salary... the fullfilness of a carreer is just that an utopia....

[@sumairymendez6936]

I think Dr. Peterson has some excellent thoughts regarding self-realization, yet I find this excerpt from his podcast to be a dangerous advocation of traditionalism. I felt this was an incredibly arrogant presentation of "the truth" / "the real goal" / "real role" of women. To put all women in one pile just because we all have ovaries and assume that our role as women MUST include childbearing is as equally offensive as saying men must all work like a donkey to provide their wives with all their whims. Ordering parents to control their children is also a concerning idea. As much as adults want to pretend to be capable of controlling and subduing their children's personality, it is simply in the best cases a fantasy/delusion and in the worst-cases tyranny and psychological abuse. Children are people with their own wishes, needs, and character. The latter is not formed by genetic or parental guidance alone. Children do not live in a one-dimensional world or are wrapped in a bubble. Their environment influences them more than parental guidance alone. Finally, I wish we could all take a look at Dr. Peterson's life during the childhood of his children and observe his involvement/role in the rearing of his children. This is just mere speculation and I apologize if I am mistaken, but he sounds 100% convinced in what he is saying, which to my experience with dictator parents and patriarchal society, does not indicate he sacrificed his career or wishes for the sake of his children. Why should women do so? And if the Women continue to pursue her career despite having children, what kind of quality rearing would a couple of equally competitive individuals be able to give to a child? In this topic, I really cannot see eye to eye with his teaching.

[@commonautumn7834]

"dangerous advocation to traditionalism" that is perfect how you said it!! Also, on this topic he seems not to demonstrate prismatic/critical thinking. It's more like a Dear Abby response.

[@mirelasemanjaku]

On point!! I wouldn't change a coma to your reply!

[@Deroliebe]

I don't know why this guy is so popular. Most of his stuff is "patriarchy is good" and women should basically go home and stay barefoot and pregnant. Someone told me "always have your own bank account and your own car." You're not going to have that without having a good career/job. Financial independence is the only thing that gives me true happiness.

[@kayleeposthumus3856]

there are a few things he says that are completely true and he gets praised for that but when it comes to gender roles he gets it completely wrong. People tend to seek wisdom and try and justify the bad with the good and thats why hes so popular.

[@bademoxy]

please run along, adults are talking here. go run your strawman arguments in forums with others who also don't bother to read through the materials of thinkers who don't ape the mainstream narratives.

[@Deroliebe]

@@bademoxy Are you talking to me? As you replied to my comment? Take your own advice bud. Should have just scrolled past.

[@lorysipel6823]

I'm happy to have chosen motherhood for myself and my family. Thankfully my husband was able to support us financially. The best times in my life were those days as well as the hardest days. Now my children are grown and I have a career that I'm dedicated too. You can have it all, for me it was at different times.

[@thatsyouropinion9434]

I was surrounded by over giving mothers and I saw how in every case it didn’t benefit not a single person.

[@lmm8960]

Agreed. My dads been without a job for the first time ever at 58 and I’m shocked to see my mom still serving him hand and foot while he does nothing all day. My dads always provided but he has always had everything handled. He once tried to lecture me and started going on about how he has a job to do and doesn’t need the stress of his grown kid needing help from him or getting into any type of trouble. (As if I would ever call him In that type of situation) I however was 28 at the time, built my own career in cosmetology the 10 years prior, Had to spend more on my rent a month than their house cost and do all of the house chores, groceries, bills, etc etc BY MY SELF. If all I had to do was go to work...hell id be a lot more grateful than he is and wouldn’t make jokes here and there about my mom not being particular enough about cleaning or talking about my mom being cheap. It’s like you have the perfect wife of 40 years and that’s how you repay her. They wonder why I’m 33 with no kids and no husband and no desire to gain those things. I refuse to be worked 24 hours a day to have my husband treat what I do like something that is owed and expected.

[@thatsyouropinion9434]

@@lmm8960 exactly they just look for that mother replacement & I’ll be damned over giving does nothing but deplete yourself for someone to become a leech in the end both people wind up weaker were as if both were giving equally to one another they’d both have been stronger.

[@rudy1999]

@@lmm8960 Or maybe nobody just wants you anymore lol. Western men go overseas for for women these days because they are still feminine and nice to be around. You also had no problems sleeping around with men yet now you hate them.

[@lmm8960]

@@rudy1999 I love how you assume I’m naturally hated by an ex. That’s not the case. You also assume I’m promiscuous, or was, which is wrong again. Good luck getting your European woman who isn’t with you out of love.

[@rudy1999]

@@lmm8960 I am European xD

[@nadakidd]

7:48 "we live as if we only exist when we're young" Serious truth bomb right there.

[@mariasoto1837]

Well not me. I live knowing I will likely need a lot of support in my 80s/90s.

[@svasianfilipiname6603]

Umm that's not true for EVERYONE! If you can afford a house maid when you're old then do i! It doesn't have to be a nursing home, just a good mate or a friend or just someone you can pay and that you trust!

[@maurivanhanen9208]

How is some goddamn grandpa going to be use??? Everyone grows old ffs. Best to live alone and focus on career and physical health, then?

[@michaelsong5555]

That's because what you do when you're young DEFINES what happens when you're old. Specifically, money. Most people are not gonna have a stable financial source in the latter part of life (at least, not enough). It's idiotic to think, "I'll just make money when I'm older".

[@emmatyler4375]

He’s constantly contradicting himself. He says that you shouldn’t sacrifice your happiness for a career, but he talks about how he encourages young people to sacrifice themselves to the noblest cause and to be selfless. Maybe he just would like women to keep sacrificing their needs so that men can fulfill their passions and have a family to care for him as he ages. If every woman took his advice, they may not be able to impact the lives of countless others outside of their own families. I’d love to ask him what he thinks of Temple Grandin. She didn’t fit the part of someone capable of achieving the life or career that she’s achieved. If she hadn’t been a struggling misfit, she wouldn’t have recognized a need and found a solutions to problems with her slaughter house designs and advocacy for autistic people. Those women he mentioned could pursue other careers in the non profit sector or start their own businesses. They don’t have to be lawyers. He just says a bunch of stereotypes and expects everyone to fit them. Not everyone should be a parent, and you won’t raise children that will be there for you if you’ve raised them with the same toxic family patterns that shaped your own life. Also, raising a family is a 24/7 job, and it’s a mostly a thankless one. I think he’ll lead more people into dysfunctional loveless marriages with unhappy kids than he will into happy ones.

[@Zombie1Boy]

"And you won’t raise children that will be there for you if you’ve raised them with the same toxic family patterns that shaped your own life." From what I've seen of people and parents, those who had a toxic upbringing generally did their upmost to raise their children so they wouldn't suffer from the same problems they had. But then again my sister had a happy accident and me, my dad and my mom were all more than willing to help out and chip in raising her son, my nephew. Now she's enjoying a career as a plumber and my nephew made Sergeant in the army at 17 (through school, mind you)! "Also, raising a family is a 24/7 job, and it’s a mostly a thankless one." Yeah it is, especially for single women expected to have a career and have a family. But here's the thing, Jordan Peterson is simply telling women to pick one, not both (at the same time). Toxic Feminism has been telling women for decades they could have it all -- a career, a family, and all without a man, which inevitiably crushes all those women who really can't juggle it all; some can, but not all (hint: being rich or having a well-paying career helps, but again not everybody has one or the other). "I think he’ll lead more people into dysfunctional loveless marriages with unhappy kids than he will into happy ones." If more people took his advice and worked on their own problems, or at the very least being open about it and possibly working together with your signficant other, alot of marriages would not end in divorce. But I suppose this comes down to each and every one of us realizing we're not all gods capable of fufilling our every desire without the help of that special someone (or finding that philosophical apex) to share the burden of our insanity, stupidity, love, hate, or whatever pithy emotion you can think of... I'm going to be 37 soon and I've had more then enough time to think about this, even before I heard of Jordan Peterson. Point is, to each their own, to each in their own time, at their own pace, eventually we'll find that happiness, single or married, that gives us a measure of warmth to help get us through the day. Even if I may not succeed, the least I can do is help others succeed. :)

[@badass6300]

Working for a company is much worse though. You are slaving away to strangers. You have no impact whatsoever, only about 1-3% of people actually have an impact when it comes to innovation and the other ones are the jobs people nowadays look down on like: Farmer, Plumber, Construction Worker, Carpenter, Ditch digger, road layer, Miner and similar jobs that actually do matter a lot, not some bs office job. Doctors are the only ones that do help but a lot of them are just nurses or similar, or in some cosmetic field.

[@babshock3372]

Exactly, it’s pretty insulting to women.

[@badass6300]

@@babshock3372 idk, I think it's insulting to encourage people to slave away at a company.

[@altaisrs2857]

@@badass6300 Why are you doing it then, if it's so much worse than being a stay-at-home-parent? Do you want to sacrifice yourself nobly for your potential baby mama? "Slaving away" at a company will earn you money, so that you can afford life. "Slaving away" at home will earn you nothing but dependency on a single individual who, on the other hand, has to "slave away" at a company. Who can leave you, can have an accident and become disabled or even die, or lose his job for any other reason and not find a new one in time to feed the family. So I much rather "slave away" at a company, carreer or not, and earn my own living. And don't impose your stupid ideas of a "real job" on people.

[@paragonofgood]

I'm 29 now and I'll be turning 30 in December. But even if I'd like to have a kid someday, this is poor advice and women do not need to have children in order to live happy, fulfilling lives. If some women choose to advance their careers or pursue their passions over having children, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[@badass6300]

As they say, "and then there were none".

[@LSSYLondon]

@@badass6300 Tell that to the almost 8 billion people on the planet 80% + of whom will have more than one child.

[@badass6300]

@@LSSYLondon yeah, except if that was the case than we'd have a birth rate above 2.0 and we don't, except in Africa.

[@LSSYLondon]

@@badass6300 In 1804 the world had 1 billion people. We needed labor to pick plants and to work the fields. By 1924 we had two billion and we were just starting to get machines to do more of the labor. Our replacement rate does not need to be 1 to 1 since jobs no longer require 100 secretaries to get 100 copies of a document typed. We no longer need field hands to pick the product that a machine can do quicker and more efficiently. Even going at the current rate we will still have a population of 8 billion by 2025. If you can give an actual reason why the planet is better with that many people when most people are in relatively useless jobs where they could work max an hour a day and get everything done thanks to technology and we would have a better environment for it and fewer countries full of pollution and dumping then go ahead...

[@badass6300]

@@LSSYLondon even though through automation and semi-automation jobs quantity gets reduced, we've had tons new fields emerge since 1804 and 1924. Tons more engineering fields, tons more medical fields, new trades fields, some new commerce fields and on top of that we've had more and more humanitarian stuff that most shouldn't be jobs, but hobbies or side activities. We have shortages in the engineering and medical fields, their job positions count grow faster than we are filling them. Otherwise the biggest problem is that many countries nowadays are overpopulated. And no food and water are NOT the criteria for overpopulation. Not to mention centralization artificially overpopulates capitals and the next few biggest cities in most countries. We are Socially overpopulated as well. But that's what companies love. Why open 100 different offices and manufacturies and such across the country when you can open a few per city in 3-5 cities. Until we properly automate everything AND we automate automation, we need productive workers and if we are having shortages in the productive fields such as engineering, the trades and medicine it is obvious that not enough people are working productive jobs.

[@kerryfirehorse]

Being childless in my 50s is fantastic. It was mostly hormones and fear of being alone that influenced any need I ever had to have a family. I'm over that now.

[@aquamarinedream8304]

Your username is amazing. I'm 24 and interested in Tantra, am transitioning to eating plant-based, and am pretty sure I don't want to have kids. It's so much risk and expense, and I value my health and time. I hope when I am in my 50s I am as happy with the decision as you are!

[@kerryfirehorse]

Cheers Ne'La, what kind of tantra are you into? Well done for transitioning to plant food. You are still young enough that you don't need to make decisions about having children now. See how your life evolves. I chose a life of independent travel and adventure over having a family, and I have no regrets. Sometimes life makes the choices for us.

[@rosemullen1856]

TofuDream I have no children. I do see the joy that grandchildren bring to my friends. It’s a crap shoot though. Sometimes adult children bring their children home for grandma to raise. That doesn’t look fun at all. I think having a family is an important thing especially when you get old.

[@curelable]

Nothing to be proud of...

[@ashdacraft]

Arc Mas why not?

[@DynAmisch69]

Having kids ruined my life. I’m a slave to them, catering to their needs 24 hours a day. I love them but that makes it even more sad... I love them too much to be able to leave this miserable situation behind me and live MY LIFE. I don’t have an own identity anymore. Having kids was the biggest mistake I ever made. I wish I would have never gotten pregnant.

[@sharnistevens1428]

At least you're honest about it.

[@tinbitberhanu8125]

I’m really sorry. That’s a hard life to live. I hope you find the strength

[@modestmaude8367]

How is your relationship with your husband? And what do you think your life would be like, or what you would be doing, if you hadn't had kids?

[@tiffanys.4250]

Hi, it sounds like you have postpartum/depression. What is your support like? Can you carve out an hour per day for you? This hour would be your hour, no one can disturb you, you can do whatever you want! Workout, self care, pray, meditate, sleep, anything! I also recommend if you can taking a vacation from your kids, at least once a year. Whether it's a weekend or a full week, leave them with someone you trust, and then go somewhere! To the spa, out of town etc. You can also hire a fingerprinted babysitter on care.com and then go to a concert, see a movie, get a mani pedi, buy sexy lingerie, anything! Your life isn't over, it's just beginning. And when they're older you get to nag your kids 😂

[@CMM726]

You need a support system. I had no support from family at all. My husband worked all day and night so I could stay home with our daughter. I felt trapped, isolated and alone. I wanted a part time job just to have adult conversations but lived in poverty and couldn’t afford childcare. Eventually my daughter reached elementary school age and I made friends with other moms, and created a support system. You take my kid and I’ll take yours kinda thing and that helped me to get through school. It took years to get a lot of my own. I suggest you join a church and reach out to other moms and try to find someone you trust with your kids so you can get a break. Even if it’s just one day a week working to get out and talk about something other than baby shark. It will help, and time flies and they get older and want nothing to do with you lol

[@auroramadariaga4081]

I'm 35 and I can say with a hand in my heart that I've never felt the need nor the urge to become a mother. I'm indifferent to children and babies, ever so rarely I may find one in particular cute but that doesn't mean I want one on my own. I'm married for 13 years with a man my same age and neither he wants children. We've talked this many times and we've always made it clear that whenever one of us suddenly does and the other one doesn't or can't, the door is open to let each other free to pursuit that wish. Believe it or not, it *is* possible to live a fulfilling life without kids. Not everyone has what it takes to be a good parent. I'm not less of a woman for not wanting to become a mother.

[@TijaunaK]

I'm not nurturing either. Yet this is type of woman that men seem to respect the most.

[@zabzab6128]

My sister is the same and in a happy relationship without kids. It's strange that some people still think a woman is just on earth to have children (in point of evolution yeah, a man can't give birth) but at the end it's her life and I highly respect her for her choice and standing against all stupid idiots who want to talk her out of it lol they all loose

[@noviews189]

Same with my teacher.

[@cttommy73]

@@zabzab6128 Better question, why is it written in law that men have to serve the national service before they are allowed to vote and not go to jail and why is it that in cases of emergencies, why is it that it is always men that has to let everyone else go first? If you can answer this question, you can answer your own question. P.S. It has nothing to do with stupidity. Also, maybe you don't want to sound so smug. Not a good look, just saying.

[@BelleParisa]

I am like you in terms of loving children but not wanting one of my own. However, in the culture that I come from (and I was most comfortable to date in), that was a deal breaker for men. The moment they realized that I don’t want a child, they got cold feet in the relationship, although I’m well educated, successful and had good qualities.

[@jsab0]

Some people use their jobs/careers to develop and evolve spiritually in selflessness, service, sacrifice, and love towards their community or mankind in general. Other people develop and evolve spiritually in selflessness, service, sacrifice, and love towards their children and family. It's the intention behind the actions and choices that truly matters. Once you realize the reason you're in this physical world is to evolve in love, compassion, understanding and wisdom, everything else falls into place and nothing else matters. Whether pursuing careers or family or both, it makes no difference. Evolving spiritually is the underlying factor and different people go about it in different ways, consciously or unconsciously, aware of it or not. We all eventually learn the same lessons.

[@fubatches]

beautifully said :)

[@garrettstephens91]

You should do that before you get to a career. People used to do that 50+ years ago by volunteering at their churches as children and teenagers.

[@beyondher]

I agree, and also - the ultimate fulfilment for women (or men) is self-realisation and enlightenment. Enlightenment is more likely without having children. Having children is more of a biological fulfilment for women. Ultimately we can love and nurture any sentient being, become a spiritual mother. Why must it be MY child? Especially considering the planet is dangerously overpopulated.

[@jennygao826]

OMG yes this! Thank you for bringing the conversation to a higher realm. You can love in so many ways and having your "own" child is just one of the ways (though in another perspective no child is "yours", they are spirits passing through you and you enable their physical existence). And yes you can evolve towards more love with or without children! It's wonderful :) I hope Peterson can reach this level one day .. I feel as if he's just defending his own way of life.

[@vetiverose128]

Best comment here

[@jeanwetherbee5039]

I always wanted to be a nurse, but I had my children at an early age. Thank goodness I waited. I loved being young enough to enjoy having a great time being a mom. I could keep up with them, go sledding and bike riding with them. We were poor , but my children grew up knowing how to survive and have jobs. I finally went to college when my two children were in school. I became a grandmother at an early age and I can hoola hoop and win my oldest granddaughter . I love being a nurse. I would not have it any other way.

[@yoleeisbored]

is nursing school hard? im also interesting in nursing but dont feel smart enough

[@jeanwetherbee5039]

@@yoleeisbored nursing school is very hard. I didn't think I could do it either. I was not great in HS but I really wanted to be a nurse. It surprised me when I got in and it double surprised me when I passed and was in the top 10 of my class during graduation.

[@jeanwetherbee5039]

@@yoleeisbored if you want something bad enough you can do great.

[@jeanwetherbee5039]

@@yoleeisbored it's very hard but well worth it because it's so rewarding

[@yoleeisbored]

@@jeanwetherbee5039 okay thank you so much i always see so many people saying that nursing is the hardest college major and their crying meltdowns throughout school

[@AlexaOleksa]

Already the beginning threw me of: "..women are told from early on that they will pursue dynamic career.." Mr Peterson apparently lives in alternative world, because in our world women are explicitly and implicitly are told that they have to get married and have children and the first question you are asked when meeting like relatives or older people: did you get married, do you have children? I wish girls were told about dynamic careers!

[@joshuadalton6063]

Well he's talking mostly about the west, US/CA/UK etc, not sure he means slavic or other countries where the women aren't told that

[@kimt7251]

I don’t enjoy men telling me how to live my life due go my age. My mother gave birth at 39 with no medical issues and I am completely healthy. Am I supposed to be panicked that I don’t have a relationship? I haven’t met the right person yet, so I just focus fully on looking for the right man to manage to have babies at 30? That’s desperation. Ar for what? I already have a lot of other responsibilities in life. I’m ready to do that one day if there’s a person that loves me but I’m not going to be seeking that in desperation just because I’m 30. I feel that men have never felt what it’s like to be a woman and they pretend like it’s so easy to find a relationship as a girl. Even though it’s not. Sometimes I feel it’s really hurtful what men are saying about women’s lifes. Also, if women should focus on motherhood, men should support them. Why should I seek the sacrifice of being a mother if a lot of men don’t even enjoy or appreciate children. I have to take two full time jobs in life or be completely dependable and vulnerable. Women that give birth later tend to live longer. Having a child shortens your telomeres in double. And men speak of having children like it’s a fun thing you do. Even though you’re taking on an enormous responsibility and a toll on your helath for a man that is statistically most likely will cheat on you or leave you.

[@SpicyLobsta]

I tried to empathize as much as I could with your plight. Really, I gave it a full read and tried to imagine you were my sister or friend. But honestly, I think its painfully obvious, for any who care to look, just how much more privileged modern women are in developed nations than men. Male utility is declining rapidly and the common political refrain is to assume the reward of a few hyper industrious men is enjoyed by men at large (the 50% of the population). Most males live lives of loneliness, futility, pain, grind, introspection, familial duty, and delusion. They keep your lights on, man the oil fields, lay bricks, weld pipes, and defend the country in combat (97% of battlefield deaths). Only a microscopic minority of extremely gifted men live lives better than god. Now we must also contend with very intelligent extremely conscientious high iq women who will also compete for that VP role at the investment bank I work at... fuck you Lindsey you know who you are. Have no fear, I continue to slave on so I can be taxed at NYC 45% net effective and higher. Im sure every cent of my tax dollars goes to women in STEM, and Boss Women clubs just to spite me.

[@patriciamusonda6197]

Thank you,, amazing words,,,it really not easy being a woman.

[@tiffanys.4250]

@@SpicyLobsta you have created this reality with your own toxic thoughts. I highly encourage therapy so you can learn to challenge your thoughts and see the world in a more balanced way. Both women and men have done a lot of evil in this world. A lot of men are lonely because they keep repeating the same mistakes, they don't even think about being a good friend, uncle, brother, neighbor, etc. They don't even see women they aren't attracted to. As a man you are not just made for fucking. Otherwise your body would be just a penis. Don't devalue yourself in this way. You only have one life, don't just spend all of your years chasing women, or chasing money to get women, or feeling disillusioned because the women you like don't like you or are using your lust to their advantage. There is a whole world waiting outside your limitations. Develop meaningful, nonsexual relationships with people, check up on people around you, the more you give, the more you get back. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, this is science!

[@lisah8438]

@am py Not everyone can have babies in their 20s either. Your point?

[@aleksandrassivkovas9966]

I do not think I would want to do something knowing it will shorten my life. I am man age 31.

[@christinemarie6976]

Why is it that the single, childless woman who is happy and contented gets no press?

[@diamondheart8708]

Christine Marie because there really aren't that many of them.

[@christinemarie6976]

+Diamond Heart, I think it's because they're just going under the radar. The happy and contented are not the cougars out trolling the bars.

[@AlicitySherie]

Christine Marie I think because generally, really happy people aren’t out there stirring the pot, and making videos trying to provoke controversy or reaction. I am very happy in my life, and I don’t feel I need to prove that to anyone. I also don’t feel inclined to change anyone else’s beliefs because, it’s futile, and also it doesn’t affect me in this matter. I feel like this video was intended to make conservative people who only value women for being mothers feel empowered, and make women who aren’t mothers feel disempowered.

[@iainhowe4561]

Why would you want press? Just be happy being the best you that you can be - you aren't a problem to be solved, after all! Meanwhile raising children is getting hard because the best model for doing so is proving unequal to our societies current priorities. I'm fine with society focusing it's efforts on overcoming the problem of how to raise successful adults while not dooming those adults to having to exist within such a restrictive social framework - the only problem (and the one that Doctor Peterson is talking about) is that we currently don't have that solve, and we're pulling apart the traditional framework without having a replacement for it.

[@apmasterl]

Because they are ugly and no man wants them. Darwinism. I'm just joking. Maybe.

[@MySiamesedreams]

Scary to invest in a family life with men who might leave you with nothing after giving them our youth

[@OoWhiteStaroO]

Marry to a good dude, my wife gave me her 19-28 all her sweet years. I asked her for a marriage promising that I would never leave her. I am aware of what she gave me the majority of people in general have no idea, even she had no idea what she gave me. But I do, so there is no way for me to make a move as dirty as leaving her when her beauty naturally decays. Seriously, look for a man who understands these things, relationships like any contract work best if both parties have a lot of information about each other's interests.

[@saradejesus1276]

That is called unloyalty.

[@saradejesus1276]

@@OoWhiteStaroO 😍

[@OoWhiteStaroO]

@@Wuestenwiesel No. Unserstand this, men go hight up in value as they get more money and succes in life. Women are valued on her atractiveness and fertility. Men dont care about their woman carrers, they want women that are hot. And we care about personality and other things, BUT IS IMPORTANT THAT AT LEAST THEY ARE ATRACTIVE TO US. At least for me if its not a 9/10 i dont saw them as a long term relationship material. Thas the ugly truth, im a man and i acknowledge it. So while i just got more and more valuable over time, she is depreciating over time beaceuse her fertility and her looks are going to fail inevitably. And thats the diference between sexes. I, as a man at my 40 years old can catch a 20 yean old model if i want. That is not going to happen for a 40 years old women unless it has undergone multiple aesthetic operations.

[@margaretwerncke5307]

@Barrier Boy I mean, childbirth isn't exactly a walk in the park. Women baring children is her burden, males being disposable is theirs. Once both sexes accept these terms, life gets much easier in our overtly neurotic age.

[@Lioness_Es]

Imagine having a sick or special needs child(ren) who takes up all of your time. I would love to hear from those mothers.

[@luckylisp455]

I had 2 children by 22, but by that time I also had a university degree and post grad. One of my children was on the autism spectrum undiagnosed and just considered difficult. By 27 I had a 2nd postgrad and got into teaching/lecturing and 20 odd years later that's where I still am. By 29 I was widowed. By 34 I had found love again and had twin boys, both of whom are ASD, one nonverbal severe. By now I am in my late 40s, I teach part time, I support my adult son (my eldest is late 20s earning a fortune in big pharma), and I take care of my complex needs twins. I will do this until the day I die, and after that god knows what will happen to my 3 boys.

[@TheEroina]

@@luckylisp455 sounds like you had such a difficult life to live. no offense, but most people in their sane mind would not want to go through the same thing

[@luckylisp455]

@@TheEroina that's the thing about life, it gives you stuff that nobody wants to deal with but there is no choice in the matter except to deal with it if it does happen.

[@kamelaitcheikh5305]

@@TheEroina obviously no one would want it , but if you are not an egoistical person like people are taught in western country ( thinking about themselves first ) then you could find happiness with familly

[@TheEroina]

​@@kamelaitcheikh5305 lol Kamel. i am not even remotely from a western country, but it's a basic common sense not to have a family/kids if you simply don't want to. (different people have different priorities in life, wow what a shocker!) it would make your life/your partner's life worse, and we all know that.

[@doktorzhigonzo9165]

peterson makes it seem like a womens only role is being a mother. i personally never had that instinct. from a young age i was turned off from being one. it's not like every woman in america wants to be a career hound. thats just not the facts. it's an intellectual debate i dont really understand. perhaps it's forever a debate between the sexes. men wanting to control women and women not wanting to be controlled.

[@jackiesstories2038]

Perhaps you should ask yourself what you want your life to be like when you're 50? Perhaps Peterson's observations and advice shouldn't be applied to all women on the face of the earth without exception. But what he is despribing is a choice that will confront you in your life and will demand a clear and concious choice: What is most important in your life? Is it a well-paying, very time demanding job or a family with children? Of course it doesn't have to be so extreme or cut and dry, one could start a part-time job after their child turned 10 and doesn't require as much attention anymore or whatever. The idea of the choice however is still the same. Clearly, intentionally and knowing choosing what to do and be the best you can be at it, lays at the core of all of his advices. I for one didn't have a clear concept for romance until i hit puberty or responsibility until I became and adult, and I am well expecting the same choice to confront me in my future as well. However, as Peterson also has previously explained, the circumstances for women are much more harsh, given how their lives tend to be much more complex and their biological clock. As well as: men tend to be much more attracted towards young and healthy women, so when they hit around 30, the fun is basically over. Getting such and intimate relationship up and running takes mayn years in itself. And when an average woman turns 40, the chance of her recieving male attentions drops drastically. The one thing that seems to be adviced against, is wanting to have a fulfilling live by having a family with children or having an intimate relationship and not being able to. The few times I've heard of that being talked about, it was descibed as nothing but awful. Peterson in his many speeches is trying to 'sell' the importance and meaning of responsibility and what could be a greater responsibility than being a great parent. Recovering from a bad or missing father figure seems a hell of a lot easier than from a missing mother figure.

[@amyb7823]

@@jackiesstories2038 I think the problem is that Peterson is speaking in absolutes and also stereotypical extremes. Many women work full or part time jobs and are moms, as well. I can understand how a very career driven woman would decide in her early 30s that it's time to start a family and that's fine. Also, like a lot of other commenters are saying, women have to work out of necessity, same as men. We have to keep a roof over our heads, feed ourselves and some women want to have a more meaningful career rather than going to a minimum wage job" everyday, hence why they pursue college education and a career. Also, so many marriages end in divorce and women need a back up plan. Many women get married to abusive, controlling men as well. Men who control the finances and their entire lives once they have her in a position where they can do such a thing, like after she's left her job and had his children. A lot of things can go wrong. Also, people say that men don't want women in their 30s but I see a lot of women in their latter years finding love and getting into relationships, many times happier ones too. Because they are older and have figured out what to look for in a partner and are more capable of finding a decent partner at that point. So, it's not all hopelessness after the age of 30 for women lol and we are gonna continue to get old whether we are married or not. Same for men. And young women in their 20s are NOT physically attracted to really old men. For most young women in their 20s, a 40 year old man, around the age of their actual father, is not the ideal for them. Just FYI. Men constantly fantasizing about young women will never change I guess, but logically they've got to understand that a 21-23 year old woman is not going to want an old man, there's zero physical attraction there unfortunately.

[@shadow8277]

no dude you're right, hes a nazi sympathiser and his ideas correlate with those on the right, no matter how much he denies, hust do whatever you want

[@amyb7823]

@@shadow8277 Nazis were socialists though, literally on the opposite side of the right/conservative politics.

[@doktorzhigonzo9165]

@@shadow8277 facts

[@grege5074]

wife and i are in our early 30s and we constantly hear "oh when are you having kids, its so fantastic. other than not sleeping for the first few years, giving up all your hopes and dreams not traveling anymore, then they become teenagers and hate you...but its fantastic!" yeeeeeah, don't sound so appealing to me

[@roshnik5137]

Lol that's true

[@lucyluca6602]

My grand mother is incorrigible. She's always asking me when I will find a boyfriend and have kids. I'm 30. She's old school. I doubt she's with my grand father out of love; I think she's with him for "rules", namely "you have to have kids and be married by the time you are 22 years old". The thing is... I almost had kids, got pregnant lost it, and oh hell am I happy that I lost it. I never want to be pregnant again. And I never want to have children. What a big mistake I was going to do! I did find someone. Timing isn't right, and it's a bit complicated (we're also separated by a closed border...) - but grand ma doesn't know any of this. And he doesn't want children either so, forget about kids. Whenever she sees me or my brother, she's always asking when we're going to have a partner, or commenting on the fact that we're both single. She's so obsessed by that idea, that when I went back to college for a career change in Sept. 2019 (bear in mind, I was 29), she asked me not even a week after I started "So did you find a boyfriend in school?" I'm like "Grandma... they're ALL 17" .. She laughed at this idiocy. I think she forgot that I'm at least 10 years older than any college student. The fun fact is in the familly, we're 5 cousins (I'm not counting the others because they're 6 and under), and we're 19, 24, 26, 29 and 30. None of us have kids. My 19 yo cousin has a boyfriend on the other side of the ocean. My 29-yo cousin has a GF, but I don't know about their desire to have kids. He loves kids, so I assume they're talking about it. My 24 yo cousin wants kids, but not from her own body, and is single for the time being - and polyamorous. My bro, well, he has a lot of things to take care of, including his own self, and is doing well being single. Poor grand ma... LOL

[@blahblahshutup6024]

@Saad Bin Masud You are also useless. Bugger off!

[@Digmer]

Jokes on you, dude. Im unemployed AND ungly, so i dont get to chose either.

[@lucyluca6602]

Hahahaah !!

[@EstherCole]

"You need children so you have something to do from age 40 to age 90?" I can't say I personally agree with this. I wonder how this podcast will stand the test of time.

[@user-ol5bj4dm2v]

Yeah it seems a bit old-fashioned. Imma be in the Matrix in my 80s at this rate.

[@badass6300]

Well ok, so what are you going to do between 40 and 90 if not for kids and grandkids? Career/Job? Why do americans and other western cultures value being a slave, I thought slavery was supposed to be bad. Or buying toys like cars, phones, computers, other electronics, designer clothes and such crap... or changing your coordinates to watch some other rocks, plants and water, you know vacations, trips, excursions, etc, etc.

[@aloowalia2849]

@@badass6300 whatever they want

[@altaisrs2857]

@@badass6300 Imagine a life so boring that you need kids or grandkids to be occupied with in your 40s to 90s.

[@badass6300]

@@altaisrs2857 imagine being so delusional to think that toys, dirt, concrete, changing your coordinates and doing low to high adrenaline activities have any sort of importance, meaning and fulfillment. How many more studies, surveys and how many more lonely wealthy people must take their own lives or be on opioids or antidepressants for people to understand that toys only make them more miserable and that people are the answer?

[@angelsrosena]

I never had the feeling of having kids to feel complete in my life and I don’t see having them as something important, either.

[@HelenEk7]

I used to feel the same way. My husband and I waited several years before deciding that we wanted children. But if you don't want children it's important to not get any though, as all children deserves to be both wanted and loved.

[@VORP125]

I remember J P made another video where he has said once you have kids they become your n.1 priority and you become second. That kinda doesn't fit into his advice how 'creative' person can fulfill themselves and have kids.

[@Kater2]

As long as you are a priority, and have a strong sense of self, I don't see that as a conflict. Learning -- and practicing -- patience and selflessness is tremendously important, and how/if you go about doing this is up to you.

[@willow8186]

He didn’t say you should neglect the child to do your own thing, or that you should completely give up on everything you like to take care of the kid. What he said is that a child doesn’t consume all your time (except in infancy) and do you still have time to pursue your own interests. The child will be able to amuse itself for periods of times and that’s when you can amuse yourself.

[@riav7467]

Sometimes when I hear JP I realise he is someone living in an Ivory tower. You might be a great guy, but not everyone is. Financial independence and a fulfilling career/job is important for everyone, men and women. Jp might not have seen the tragedy when people lose it and become dependent on someone else completely.

[@sherlockholmes4167]

haven't people been dependent on each other for millenia ? Especially husband on wife and wife on husband. Just because technology has entered the picture and made women virtually "non-working" other than raising children, men have started devaluing women because their utility is replaced by machines, what can we do ?

[@riav7467]

@@sherlockholmes4167 How has technology made women non-working? Quite contrary to that, it had provided more opportunities for women to work. Software, R&D etc employ a significant number of women along with healthcare.

[@sherlockholmes4167]

@@riav7467 All those opportunities that you spoke about can easily be done without women. Is it a necessity to fill them with women ? Just think ! How many men that might be eligible for it get rejected because of women. I am not blaming women, I am just stating the fact. Look at your home and have a keen look. Dont you see machines in your life everywhere that make your life so much easier and simpler. From the computer that enables you to order something, to the washing machines, Fridges, Ovens, literally everything. They literally flipped the gender roles upside down. YOu don't even have to cook these days. Don't you think it freed women of a lot of daily chores, and thereby devalued them in a traditional marriage and automatically restricted her financial freedom ? Utility of having a wife has gone down so much that it directly lead to their devaluation. When a man feels his wife is not of that value, he is not afraid to cheat to let her go. It makes very little difference really.

[@riav7467]

@@sherlockholmes4167 The jobs I have mentioned can be done without men too. Trust me, lots of tech companies and industries actively employ women because they are less likely to leave and are less likely to defraud them. I think you have a wrong assumption that if men can't be found to do a job then only people employ women. No, that's not how job markets usually work. But what is really appalling is you consider the women in your life to be your servants and compare them to computers, washing machine, dishwasher etc. Ew. Is something wrong with you? How horrible will it be if women consider men as mere ATM machines and porters? If that's an argument for devaluation of a traditional marriage, you are confusing maid service for a wife. Even if your definition of a traditional marriage is that, then as a husband meant to protect and cherish his wife, shouldn't you buy her things that will make her life easier? Or are you planning to be a failure as a traditional husband as well? Most traditional husbands I know keep their wives like queens, buy them everything they need and shower them with money and gifts. And you expect your traditional wife to go to a river and beat the clothes against a rock 😂!

[@sherlockholmes4167]

@@riav7467 You lost the plot completely focussed on other things. Men were working jobs before jobs opened up for females. A LOT of women are employed because they are now an option available for hiring agencies. That's all and that's the truth. If you aren't available they would do the same job with men. Do you think government policies and educational institutions are the primary causes for such a change ? Not at all. They just enabled the change. The Root cause for such a change was the free time women had. When women are no longer required to learn to cook, to wash, to clean, to do a lot of things, they naturally have time at their disposal. They happily used it to better themselves. First started as an insurance kind of scenario (something to fall back to in case) and later turned to direct competetion for jobs. If you think serving your own husband and children is some kind of slavery, god save you people. Don't forget that your great grand mother did it and it happened for millienia before that. None of them raised revolutions. Revolutions that empowered women into things came after they have gained free time. End goal of a man's wealth is to get a woman and have his progeny. That's a primary instinct. Women are thus allowed to demand money from their husbands. It has been that way for centuries and no one actually objects it to this day. Imagine if suddenly all the technology in the society vanished ! What would women get to do ? Also, you are not born queen. You earn your status as a queen. In this "queen" shit, you completely eliminated what women had to do be the 'queen'. Of course arenas of employment opened up for women without men. What does that imply ? That you should leave men and live independently ? Surely, it seems like you do. But men are opting for that too. They will not want to marry, will not have children. If they do, they simply leave it to mothers because women are no longer incapable of raising the children alone. That's probably why 50% of the births are out of wedlock.

[@Nokss87]

We're in a different generation, different world. Stop with this thing of women being 'too old' even if you get her young being with you (the man) will age her just the same if not quicker with ALL the demands of being a wife and mother. Secondly, contrary to popular demand (or patriarchy) most women hate staying at home and looking after kids. Go and spend a day in kindergarten (yes you as man) and see what it's like to deal with children everyday. I personally wanted the kids and husband because that's what society keep drilling into my brain. I keep being told I should love having kids, I keep being told kids will ground me or make me more mature (as if life doesn't already kick my ass everyday), I keep being asked about a boyfriend or when I'm getting married or when I'm having a child before it's too late but nobody asks if I'm happy. Nobody asks if I'm living the life that I want, everybody assumes I'm lonely, too masculine, too crazy to keep a man (as if having a penis makes you automatically ready and suitable for marriage). Peterson needs to remember that we're in 2021, not 1992 maybe when he got married. But believe me women's desires never end, they'll never be satisfied with playing one role all their lives. Society must stop shoving down our throats this notion that we're only good for nurturing kids because it's in "our DNA) that is utter bullcrap. Yours sincerely, 33 year old!!!

[@artemis2935]

Love you for writing this.!! Family dynamics should change with changing times. Dad's should step up more and work to create a balance that allows women to get back to their careers after giving birth. If family is what you want.

[@badass6300]

Well back in the day when you could get anti-depressants over the counter women didn't use them, nowadays 25-30% of women are on anti-depressants in a time where it's the hardest its ever been to be on anti-depressants. Women since 1973(when the study started) have been reporting lower and lower levels of happiness and life satisfaction. Women become 35-40 and all of a sudden want a man to take care of them. There is a small minority of women who like working, the rest really don't. And it's studies done by women disproving all the 1900s propaganda through sheer biology and statsitics they gather. It's not weather women can do something or not, it's weather they'll be happy doing it and most women are miserable working for more than 10-20 years. The happies women are the ones with a good healthy family. I'd give links, but youtube now deletes comments with links or anything that is similar ot a link.

[@prajnajois4065]

@@badass6300 "Good healthy families"! That's a privilege many women don't have. The women in my family, for example. They did everything that society asked them to - grew up family-oriented, married young (early twenties), and had arranged marriages too! Who did they get? Abusive husbands, no career, no money, zero support. And having to listen to men telling them how they should be happy to have a fucking roof over their heads. I'm glad that I'm going to choose career over marriage at the height of my youth so that I would never have to be stuck like ALL the women I know.

[@badass6300]

@@prajnajois4065 Also IDK, if you have a home, shelter, food, clothes, family, electricity, a toilet, TV, potentially internet and a phones/PCs, a family car or even personal car... like you've got the life.

[@prajnajois4065]

@@badass6300 Hope you have all of these and have a good life 😊 I don't know if you're a woman, man, or whoever, but I sincerely hope you'll have a happy life where you can continue to think this way till the last day of your life. Again, not everyone has this privilege.

[@kimiko495]

I feel so lucky that I have no desire for motherhood. I put career before family because I looooove my field of work. No struggle.

[@sem5869]

What's your field?

[@lachlanoneil8938]

What about when you are Over the age to have kids, or in retirement. Will you regret it.

[@scar2243]

@@lachlanoneil8938 There's always adoption. You have any idea how many abandoned/orphaned kids could care less about age as long as they have loving caretakers?

[@hanalala3164]

@@lachlanoneil8938 lol why do you care so much?

[@hanalala3164]

@1987iuli i care more about enjoying my life to the fullest while im still alive. Rather than sacrificing for some silly legacy. Who cares what happens when youre dead. Life is short, enjoy it while youre still here..duh

[@mirnuren]

It would be useful for Jordan to work in a corporation for a few years and then he can talk about the glass ceiling being an illusion. Also the number of stereotypes he shares is disturbing.

[@badass6300]

How many times must people debunk the wage gap myth? It's been 3 decades of busting it every couple of years now.

[@LSSYLondon]

He lives is a completely false universe from roughly 70 years ago mentally. It reminds me of "Blast From the Past". He thinks you can just have kids in your 20s and not focus too much on them (be a neglectful parent is fine), have a stable successful family on one income (his), and that is the answer to life. It's like he lives in a time capsule. He clearly never raised his own kids. I would rather listen to Alain de Botton who actually understands the human condition. Esther Perel who actually knows what's going on in homes around the globe.

[@badass6300]

@@LSSYLondon All parents who neglect their children to the education system are garbage parents. Also you can live easily on much less money than you do if you are from a western country. This just means cheaper toys, fewer toys and no pointless trips, excurssions, vacations or whatever you want to call them and have a family in your 20s. Fewer bricks and dirt too. Family is what matters according to tons of studies and many old people who chose not to have families and now regret it. There are people who are broken and don't need to be social and have close freinds and family but those are the exceptions and chances are neither of us are those people.

[@_frangipani_]

So what should women do in the meantime then, just twiddle their thumbs and do nothing? I'm pretty sure that's not how the world works. And what happens if the marriage fails or the husband dies? People need incomes!

[@jemase7931]

Francesca Hickling-Riviera You work hard to make your marriage work and you peck away at college to get a career like teaching that gives you summers off, that lets you work part time when the kids are young, and that you can work in full time when you want to.

[@jemase7931]

catchlightdame I seldom had trouble finding jobs and unemployment is very low. What qualifications do you have and what are you looking for?

[@jemase7931]

Amy Sluton Ye gods, Amy, put the fork down and get some exercise. You look like diabetes and a heart attack waiting to happen. The videos on your channel do not indicate that you have much inside your head to offer an employer. Fix yourself.

[@jemase7931]

Amy Sluton If you are going to do parody, it would pay to be good at it. My man has been around for 50 years. Plus, he can lift me.

[@jemase7931]

Amy Sluton What an intellectual talent you are. No wonder you cannot build your channel. Do you seriously think that this is going to bring subs? Bye bye, moron.

[@OriginaLkrowpy]

Our society puts all the responsability of children on womans. A woman shouldn't choose between her career and her children, she could do both. The problem is that our society is structured so that men work and women take care of the house and children and even is we think that it's not true and our society has evolved, our mentality didn't change. In his hole speech, there was ZERO mention of men, why is that?

[@thebabslife]

AMEN!! I hate that men are never mentioned when caring for children. I am terrified that the guy I have children with will assume that I'm going to do all the work, I absolutely hateeeeee that and find it so unfair. I'd rather not have kids if I'm going to be the only one taking care of them.

[@joshuadalton6063]

And it used to put all the responsibility of the whole family (woman AND the children) on men. Which worked out pretty well for a while (idk, few tens of thousands of years roughly?). There is also plenty of mention of men in other parts of his speech, just not this snippet since its focusing on women and careers..

[@kamelaitcheikh5305]

@@joshuadalton6063 dont wast your Time explaining dude they only see and Care about themselves

[@chucksareforshmucks5520]

Regarding the last part; I've been criticized HARSHLY by other mothers for taking time to workout. I also write poetry (which doesn't take a huge amount of time), and I review perfume (sounds weird but I love it). People always say snippy things like "I wish I had time to workout", and there have been some rumors about how vain I am even though I never post about it and I don't tell people what I actually do. I homeschool but I haven't dropped all of my hobbies. I'm also about 40% conscientious and my home is ok, but I'm not meticulous and I spend an hour and 20 minutes on chores (on average) a day but I don't exhaust all of my energy on maintaining a perfect place. I see that parents completely involved in their children's lives to the point that their identity seems to meld into the child's. For instance, in Judo the parents stay and watch the entire time each time session and never go out to read or get shopping done. They homeschool but they take on a mass of electives for the children and fill their days to the brim. They have perfect large homes (even for a family of 3 or 4) and spend hours on them a day. They also plan extensive playdates and elaborate birthday parties. I'd like to have a simple, but fulfilling and manageable life that leaves me remaining relatively the same person when my children finally leave in 12 years. I lean toward less conscientiousness, and I know I always need to strive to kick it up a notch because I'm naturally less motivated; however I don't want to become a bland, unidentifiable mother with no outline of her own as I see happing with so many moms. One more thing, my kids are also much more adjusted and secure than many I see in the homeschooling community. They give more emphatic hugs to me, and their eyes light up more when they look at me than do other children when seeing their mom. They're less whiny and clingy, but they have what I feel is a deeper connection. I think backing off and not smothering them but having more meaningful discussions throughout the day is why.

[@wissemnaoui9974]

I just love what you said

[@andypagakis]

You sound like an awesome woman, I wish more had your attitude

[@causticchameleon7861]

I was a stay at home mom for 15 years. I’m so glad I did. I was able to raise my kids with values I wanted to instill in them.

[@clare_jordin]

kudos to you!

[@fxjrulpzxi]

Pray for me. Trying desperately to conceive in my 30s and stay home with my “children” (in quotes because they don’t exist and it feels like they never will)

[@causticchameleon7861]

@@fxjrulpzxi I understand to some degree. I had a sister in law that tried for years to conceive. She decided to adopt. Then miraculously several years after the adoption she conceived. Almost like she took the pressure off herself and it happened. My ex mother in law had a hard time conceiving too. It took several years for her to conceive then, after the first, she went on to have 8 more children over a 14 year span. I say a prayer for you but I would also make a suggestion to look into adoption as there are so many babies needing loving mothers. I’m sure you’ll be a mother soon.

[@Taran532]

Just doesn’t always work out that way. My mom raised me Christian conservative but here I am agnostic socialist 😂

[@aloowalia2849]

@@Taran532 same😁

[@beans9019]

This doesn’t make sense. On one hand they tell you get a job don’t be using your husband and on the other it’s telling women that they will be more happy at home. But then the guys bring up divorces and how women get half of what they get. What advice do you even take as a woman? I have a job and I don’t plan on quitting. I need to support myself and my future children whatever the future holds if it’s in my cards or not. I don’t get what advice you’re supposed to take, it really feels like you can please any man. And to add this whole idea that women are hyper-monogamists or whatever the MGTOW people are saying these days you can say that about men too. It’s all based on the person and not the whole gender. I mean I didn’t pick to be a boy or a girl I was just born as whatever gender I was assigned at birth. Why hold someone’s gender against them? People are individuals and it’s all based on their personality and loyalty. I don’t cheat period. It’s infuriating when people say this and that about women, I know who I am as a person.

[@timothylanger2999]

You're right. It seems like there really aren't good options. This is an unfortunate product of our current age, and we need systemic change, but not of the likes of which femminists or red pill PUAs advocate. Both sexes take it in the teeth, and there aren't any easy answers. JP will remind anyone that life can be chaotic and miserable. Often all one can do is take up their proverbial cross, and do the next right thing. My best thought would be that you don't need to be a corporate all star to have a secure future in case something terrible happens. If you love what you do, pursue it of course, but it is wise to find someone while you are young still.

[@Michael.P247]

Starbee in my experience and observation of people who’ve successfully held down jobs and have had kids in westerns society....I’ve realised that it’s all about balance, patience, tolerance and starting early. The way the economy and system is set up is such that when you’re chasing something like a career/jobs, other things like relationships and starting a family suffers. And when you’re focused on building a relationship and starting a family early, building a career and chasing money too suffers. So in all I have discovered that people that get it right the most are people who find a balance, understand the society & system that you live in, and act fast, or.......just act.

[@tdr.220]

“Women’s "empowerment" and women’s abandonment are two sides of the same coin; you never get one without the other. This is because an empowered woman will necessarily drive a man away since a man cannot contribute to a woman safely or effectively when the woman is ‘in charge '. There are men who will be attracted to an empowered woman and these are the men who want to abandon women, who don’t want to provide for and protect women. These men will prefer an "empowered" woman so that they will be ‘off the hook’ in terms of their duties as men.” The truth of the matter is that feminism has never spoken for all women. They have created this mess we have now and made men not want to take on any personal responsibilities for women. So now women have to take on a man’s burdens as well as putting up with their traditional ones. Marriage and divorce have become a never-ending war between the sexes. First, it’s a marriage where both spouses fight over who does what and women whining and complaining about “having” to work. edifythebody.org/curriculums/

[@edithaloha2642]

Michael P such an underrated comment!

[@nityah6815]

Exactly, it seems like women are being asked to do this or that, choose career or a kid blah blah. Where is this advicd being doled out to men? Where are they being asked to grow up and be responsible?

[@sailormars20]

I’m a legal assistant in one of those big law firms and see this all the time. I started with the law firm thinking I wanted to find out about the legal field and go to law school. After working and seeing what the attorneys have to go through, I realized law school would be a huge mistake. Im now studying IT and am planning on going for my masters in cyber security

[@bella3008]

Why did you choose cyber security over other subjects?

[@jandimsumlaah]

I don't know what this dude trying to sell. How is it dangerous to encourage women to go for career that makes them happy. If couple both want kids, they should both slow down if needed. Women and men should try for what they want ❤️

[@Catlady-mw4en]

How can Jordan say that we should all shoot for the most noble goals we can have in life, and then in the next breath say that women need to have kids. Even if you are a "selfish mother", kids will become the center of your life. And his reasoning for this is that you might have nothing to do once you turn 45, due to our culture. That is the worst reason I've ever heard for procreation.

[@ThePiones]

The thing is most times having a career is not noble in any sense of the word

[@KH-ch9wz]

If you made them and they share 1/2 your DNA shouldn’t you try and shoot for a noble goal to raise them into decent people? Be the master of your own universe.

[@mikel4025]

Tf? Since when is having kids not the most noble goal? Seems like you just view being a mother as something pathetic and embarassing when it's actually one of the most wonderful things

[@shannon2748]

hahaha...You might not have anything to do when you'e 45???? 45 is not 85.

[@SuburbanoidMisfit111]

You can pour your entire being into a child but guess what? They are their own person. An absolute saint of a parent can raise a scoundrel. And all the scoundrel child will learn of mommy's or daddy's goodness is how to pretend to be good for selfish gain or straight up trick people. I'm not saying most kids are this way, but some are and it's more than a few. And our sick culture is quick to heap the blame upon the mother if the child is less than perfect or acts a fool. All I'm saying is, you might go in the maternity unit hoping to meet your little angel, but it's really the devil you take home with you, all swaddled in blue or pink.

[@getrealtahri]

I’m 22 at this point in time I can do without children. If that feeling changes at 33 I’m having kids with or without a man. Thanks technology.

[@badass6300]

70% of the people in jail in the USA come from a single parent household, usually single-mother households... the vast majority of children of single-parent households that didn't go to jail are among the struggling ones... enjoy.

[@femmefatale3598]

@@badass6300 How do you know she's from USA?

[@badass6300]

@@femmefatale3598 Well the USA is a good predictor for western and many westernized eastern cultures.

[@hanalala3164]

@@badass6300 better to have no kids than to settle with an ug1y guy :)

[@bevs9995]

if you are poor, you may be destined to become a single mom. According to pew research, college educated women are more likely to get married and more likely to stay married for longer periods. Highschool or less educated women are less likely to marry, more likely to have children out of wedlock, more likely to get divorced, have shorter marriages, more likely to suffer domestic violence, and, strangely enough, are less likely to file for divorce despite being more likely to end up divorced. So if you're poor or poorish, wait til youre 30-ish, and then if you want to have kids on your own go for it. But please go to a quality sperm bank, pay the money, take one for the team (of humanity).. Dont produce with trash

[@maiNmusica]

Ahh, just what grown women need. A man telling them to have kids... Why don't you just accept our life decisions and move on?

[@perciousmatter7001]

Hahahah xD

[@galaxybounce1002]

He’s not telling women what to do or criticising their choices. He’s sharing with us the details of what his female client express to him during their psychotherapy sessions.

[@asjaruescher4985]

ugh. i agree 100%. when he describes "successful" women, his first adjective to describe them is "attractive" - like seriously. as if that is a comment that would even come up if he spoke about men. what the fuck does it matter whether you find them attractive or not. and no thanks, we dont need to be lectured by men if we should be "carreer" oriented or go back to the "archetypal motherhood". enough already.

[@brianmenendez]

@@asjaruescher4985 Nick Rockefeller told film producer Aaron Russo that Women's liberation was created for two reasons, 1. To double the income tax base by having both man and women work in the work force and 2. To separate the kids from the family and get them into public school system where they could become indoctrinated by the system

[@suzannedoran7340]

Oh Brian, what's that you're mansplaining to the women on this thread?! That some man told another man why 'women's liberation' occurred, so we women should listen and shut up? Anyone would think that men would rather believe anything than accept that women are capable, ambitious, rational and independent of the needs and opinions of men. Just like Mai N was pointing out above. I have just stumbled across this Peterson fellow and he seems like a first class bellend. Don't be like Peterson.

[@grizzlegrowlsem]

I can’t physically have children but I know one day, I’ll adopt and then properly screw up my progeny 🤣 I am excited to have a career and a family. I really am looking forward to it.

[@jamesmanter8731]

you would be a good second wife and help raising that family

[@norrylorry9249]

Adopt me 😔, I’m 20, need a happy home and family.

[@SJ-ej3vj]

I am a woman who wanted to have a family and kids in my early 20s... but as I grew up more and more I am actually less inclined to have kids. I'm witnessing so much emotional damage unhealthy parents and unhealthy situations are doing to their kids, and just the general increasing pressure of society. (who can promise that they will have a stable and high income job, affordable house, with good regular hours for work-life balance, and no major medical accidents for 20 years??)

[@vanadmirable8813]

@Pickel Sandwich Uh...you're full of shit. I've known plenty of women who are in the twilight of their years that have not regretted their decision to not have kids and they are doing very well. It's a choice and it should be left up to the individual.

[@Rampageotron]

I usually agree with Peterson's views on a lot of things, but I can't back him up on this one. Not everybody should have children just because there's a chance it might make the parent's life better. Not everyone is cut out to become a parent and having a kid when you're not going to be a good parent will just hurt everybody involved. You can live a perfectly fulfilling life without having children. It's what you make of it.

[@shaunflavour6366]

Your comment just proves we have a society of overgrown children who cannot bare any kind of moral responsibility. But at the end of the day, your genes will die out(which is a good thing if you don't have maternal extincts) & the rest of the world will carry on and you could be alone for 20 or 30 years until the day you die and all your possessions and memories will be bagged up and thrown in the trash. You might as well have never existed- at least in the eyes of anyone else but yourself.

[@crowofcainhurst]

@@shaunflavour6366 Not sure if your comment is based on genuine concern over a stranger's childless future, or is it because her statement about not wanting a child offended you somehow? Which one is it???

[@shaunflavour6366]

@@crowofcainhurst Neither. It's not offensive, it's pathetic. They are like men but with breasts and wombs and all the emotions of a woman but with a cat or a hamster as an infant-substitute. I don't care if you can't see the truth, like I said in my previous post it won't matter. At least not in the same way that your grandparents will always matter.

[@OoWhiteStaroO]

@@shaunflavour6366 Reproducing is a privilege. Thats all, leave them do as they want xD

[@margaretwerncke5307]

@@OoWhiteStaroO It's always men who have so many opinions on childbirth without ever having to actually birth one.

[@mcmahenc1]

I think most of us women start out in life with the dream of finding “the one” and with that dream of having the perfect family but very soon we realize that we are just vying for a place in a man’s rotation, though he may profess to be this, that or the other, and even convince the outer world that he is such…we find out the truth the hard way. Women come to see men for what they truly are for we are not idiotic, vapid fools as you might like to think us to be, and so we decide to follow a career path which at the end of the day, allows us to come home to something we can truly believe in and nourish and love….ourselves.

[@ad8447]

Shutup feminist

[@tcskips]

You realise he’s only saying what he has observed through his work with women? He’s advising most women that they, for their own good and interest, think about children before they become infertile and alone. There will be many people that don’t need or want kids and that’s fine, but I’d think most people probably would be happy having children eventually and so therefore his advice would be useful. But it is just that, advice. You don’t need to follow it.

[@davec.3198]

I met a solid alpha career woman and worked for her. She was the plant manager at my facility and i was also a manager. I was two layers of management below her. Previously, I had always found that career women were curt with their speech and generally 'chip on the shoulder' types. She was the exact opposite. Approachable. Nice to talk to. Smart as hell and just pleasant. She worked so hard and spent so little time with her kids that her stay at home husband up and left the country with the kids. She was smart enough for that to wake her up and she quit and moved back with them. That was a real wake up call for me. A woman (or man) in a difficult position makes tons of sacrifices. Sacrifices I will never make to be massively financially successful.