Best Keyboard Stand - ULTIMATE SUPPORT APEX vs K&M SPIDER PRO

[@johncarter2741]

The outdoor grounds surrounding your studio look quite pleasing

[@Kaffeslaberas]

I had the Spider Pro for some years, used it on a couple gigs, but then switched to a table stand ( I am playing sitting this years). It was heavy, a bit to wobbly ( 88 keys piano on bottom), and limited place for pedals. And then, as others also wrote, often in conflict with the middle column and in/outputs. That can of course also be an issue with a table stand if using a second row. Lastly, if only using at home, it take up a lot of space in depth, as it is angled. So the Spider came down in its expensive travel bag, and one day many years later I saw someone was seeking a Spider. Luckily he wanted to switch it for his almost new K&M 18950 table stand that is my preferred stand. Deal done.

[@latinkeys1]

I did the same thing.. They're both heavy anyways and the table stand is very secure. The only complaint I have with the Gator frameworks table stand I use is that it doesn't sit as low as I would like (just a few inches too tall for my preference).

[@KierDarby]

Worth noting that with the K&M you really don’t have to lift the arms that much to adjust them, in fact you just have to take the tension off the arms. I’m able to adjust the height with the keyboard in place by simply loosening the bolt, then lifting the arms and the keyboard at the same time. Downwards adjustment is slightly more tricky, but still doable without disassembly and with the keyboard in place.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for the insight!

[@pascalschwaller7573]

I always have to take the upper keyboard off because the arms did not move when I only lift them a little bit. But then I have the 1st version of it

[@WoodyPianoShack]

​@@pascalschwaller7573 interesting, that confirms my findings I have to lift them very high in order to slide and reposition the tier. meybe different versions?

[@duanebeyer950]

I have two of the apex and have been using them for years. When playing outdoors, I do need to put down a board on the ground to keep it stable. Looks like the K&M solved that with the legs. For fun, with the Apex, after the gig, you pick it up horizontal at the waist, then rapidly shake it back and forth and do your best RAMBO machine gun impersonation.

[@6581punk]

I've got a couple of K&M Spider Pros. Good steady adjustable stands. A friend was going to have one off me but the lean back angle does require you to have some decent space available.

[@digableskillz]

I have 2 Ultimate Support Apex stands that I bought in 1985. They have been in multiple car wrecks and have toured the continental USA and I still use them to this day for corporate shows 2-3 times a month. I bought one of the newer Apex stands about 3 years ago and the mechanism that controls the feet broke on the second gig…go figure 🤯😎. You can already assume my bias to the Apex. I own a total of 4 of them now. Thx for this review.

[@synthfluencer]

"You never gonna buy a column stand for stability" as said in 17:54 is the core message I also learned from trying around with different stands. For carrying a heavy epiano or synth I always choose the Stagg MXS-A1 or any other of that style, similar to the Roland. It's pure physics.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

oh no! people are quoting me now. but we agree, it's physics, levers, pivots, moments. then, something supported by the corners or edges will be more stable than something supported in the middle :)

[@tracyharms3548]

Before brushing off the possible value of adjustable arm lengths I’d want to know how well they work when loaded with one (or two!) KORG DSS-1.

[@johannilsson5829]

Never thought I would watch a whole video about synth stands… 😀 Really great presentation! I only have my gear in my home studio so I use Jaspers 6 tier stand with extensions on both sides. Also two Quick lock stands and some angled Elfa shelves.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

glad you made it thru! had my eye on the jaspers for some time, best solution for studio stacking.

[@adamgh0]

I've been using the Apex stand since 2006 and it's just so compact and durable. I added a third tier to it for a minisynth. I've actually just torn it apart and sent the body and legs out to get powder coated (red). Since it's the older triangular model, the metal tabs that lock the legs in place (located under the bottom baseplate) have long since snapped off and it's tricky if you have to move the stand once it's unfolded. Quick tip: you can put the legs back in by picking up the stand, knocking them to a vertical position with your foot and then sliding the stand down on top of them rather than slide them in individually.

[@kosayh]

I’ve been using the K&M spider for like two years, though the set up and dismantle do take time, but I can really can count on stability. I am using it with 2 x 61 note keys. For me the only disadvantage is when I have to adjust the height of the bottom keyboard I have to take out the top one as well. It’s impressive that I can reach the buttons and touch screens of both keyboards even when I keep them very close, thanks to the tilt of the top tier and the ability to pull out the bottom tier, really ergonomic stand. Excuse my English

[@str8upme2]

That’s what i love about the spider that you can see under with all the buttons

[@sergiomasciotra8646]

I'm using a Spider Pro for years now. I have a MODX8 on the bottom and a Montage 7 on the top tier. I need to bring out the lower tier arms in order to see the MODX8 display. This then results in the lower tier bouncing when I play the MODX8. Not a fan. I have used the Montage 7 on it's own (top tier) on the same stand and it is super comfortable and no bounce.

[@microbug3487]

May I interest you in some alternatives? These stands may look cool, but they are heavy and partly impractical, since you have to stand while playing and may not hold some keyboards, especially if they have an angled bottom plate safely. I tried nearly every stand on the market, beginning with Jaspers KSV-3 (luckily discontinued) 30 years ago. For live, I use the K&M18880 with 18881 as second tier - this is aluminum, very light and you only adjust it once, for setting up its just "unfold" and tighten screws. It also is adjustable in height and distance/angle of the second tier. There is also a 3rd tier available, but this is fiddly, because it relies on the second tier and if you adjust the angle of the second one, you have to re-adjust the 3rd one too - very annoying. The holder pins of the second tier may be a problem in older versions, because they may be too long and block keys - but these can be either pressed down or replaced by screws (M6, minimum length 40mm). There is also the K&M 18950 with second tier 18952. Build like the Roland KS-12, with foldable leg pairs, but highly adjusable and very solid, also heavy. You can adjust the width and height even so that tall persons like me (1.90m) can play standing and every leg has a screw for adjusting, so even on "wobbly" or uneven grounds it can stand rock-solid. There are copies of that stand out there, but they rely on a connecting tube between the two halves of the stand, whereas the original consists of two halves where one side slides in the rectangle tube of the other side. There is even a heavier version of the stand out there, 18953. You can also get a sheet holder as accessory, see K&M website. I used this one for a while at home but for live it was too heavy. For home installations, I now use a highly modified Jaspers 3D-120. 3 tiers and lots of accesoires, aluminum and the tubes have the same diameter as most drumracks, so I added parts of Dixon (sadly not available anymore) and Gibraltar drumracks to expand my system without having to disassemble all (older Jaspers T-fittings were not 2piece ones like recent builds). As you already mentioned Gibraltar: The don't have keyboard stands in general, but they custom built 2 versions for Rolands Ed Diaz (there are 2 videos online) out of their parts. Since the tubes are metal, it gets heavy. I adopted the idea and built a similar version out of Jaspers Alu tubes using Jaspers and Gibraltar fittings, one to expand my K&M18880 with a side tier. I can provide pictures of that on facebook if you are interested.

[@ageshero]

These videos are seemingly too few, and too hard to find. These are great and highly informative

[@romanokoenmusic]

Hi, Woody. Great shootout. I pulled the trigger on the Ultimate Support Apex 48 a few years ago. Overall its a solid product. I'm not completely sold on the

[@FlaviuMariusPanaite]

My opinion is that spider stands (from K&M and Ultimate) cannot be compared in construction, tilt angle and, especially, stability, with classic stands (like the one from Roland, with a single level), which are in a different category. 🎹🎵😎

[@moogy77]

The INVISIBLE stand from the 80's is the best stand of all time!!!

[@bazZzment]

Great video, thanks for your effort!

[@geoffk777]

I have two Spider Pros and love them. You can get a third tier (either angled or straight) and both of mne have two angled tiers and 1 (bottom) straight one. They're in black, which is less flashy than the silver, and the logo is almost invisible. There is plenty of room for three keyboards and multiple pedals under the legs. Even though both stands are supporting at least 2 88-key flagship workstations, they are rock solid and do not rock or sway at all, even when played aggressively. The materal and build quality is excellent and I've had zero problems with them. You can get accessories such as a music desk and mike boom. I have music stands on both of mine. With three tiers, they don't fold up as well and are little awkward to move, but I mostly use them in the studio. Spacing with three keyboards is also a bit tricky and requires some experimentation and patience to get right. I have grown to really like the angled arms, and the nice tight fit of the restraining fingers at the ends is very reassuring. I don't know what you're on about with respect to parallel setup. The tiers are always parallel and can't be tilted at any other angle. I also think that you are way off-base on the stability and solidity of these stands. Maybe the used one that you got had some issues. I know that the loose mike connection is specific to your example, as mine are all nice and tight. I agree that they are expensve, but you get what you pay for. Porsches are expemsive too.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks very much for your own review, much appreciated and needed!

[@infojunkie4989]

I can confirm that the arms are easier to adjust the level than depicted, but also can be frustrating. I have 3 spiders (should have to a Jespers I know!). But the height adjustment difficulty I think is down to the arms needing to be re-seated. Simply tae them out of the centre column and make sure they are perfectly aligned when re-inserting. There's a lack to it. I did this and the were a bit easier to adjust. I also considered the Apex, and both are excellent stands. They look 'very cool' but take up a lot of floor space, to have actually been replaced with other stands now to consolidate, but for stage use or if you have a big room I can recommend the Spider which can also be expanded with a laptop stand, microphone holder and a few other gadgets. The Omega Pro is also a good one and is very versatile and expandable. (PS: Spider Pro is much cheaper in Europe, no idea why it is almost 2x the cost in the US. Crazy!). PPS: You can actually place extra tier arms on the Pro model (the Baby not so much,, but both can take extra tiers if needed). I have managed to squeeze 4 onto one just as an experiment. It is fine if you're only using the key boards as sound modules over Midi, but placement makes playing the lower two tiers impossible. But handy if you want to place a drum machine or similar on one of the optional shelves that can be placed on the arms. K&M makes great equipment overall. Very solid, and reliable. I'm a big fan.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for sharing your review, much appreciated

[@alanblack5665]

Hi Woody! I recently purchased a used Spider Pro to use with my Montage 7. I use a K&M tray on the upper level to house my IPad and some music sheets if needed. To date, the stand has been excellent! Yes, it is heavy to set up and transport but it does feel solid when in use. I was surprised when the stand was wobbling so much in your video as I don’t seem to be experiencing the same amount of movement. One thing to note is that when setting up the stand you need to make sure that all four legs are fully extended and locked in place. If not, the stand is extremely unstable and it will fall over!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for your thoughts! in my case, if extending all the way to the locking poing it is more unstable, i need to push back one of the legs a bit.

[@JoseVGavila]

He did not mount it properly AND that stand has some problem on its legs, probably one is damaged as they don't sit flat. Not a great review, IMHO. I am NOT a K&M seller nor have any interest on that brand. I am a USER of the Spider Pro and other K&M gear, and can't stand (pun intended) biased opinions like this one

[@WoodyPianoShack]

@@JoseVGavila i have inspected all legs for damage, and there is nothing broken and nothing to adjust. it is just a poor design. why would I have any bias, I bought both myself? this is a very fair test.

[@Nightowl427272]

@@JoseVGavila- Yea, something felt a bit off in this video. I’m an owner too and a few of the points he brought up just don’t track with my experience. The stand is very solid, no wobble. And all four legs sit perfectly flat on a flat surface, I don’t know what he’s talking about.

[@dejan.stankovic]

I tried that stand at one gig. It was new one and without any damages. My keyboard is fairly light but there was still some wobbling. When another player (stand owner) brought his own keyboard, it was even more wobbly. Not to that extent that it would bother me, but still it is much less stable than my copy of K&M Omega stand. I don't work for Ultimate, neither ☺️

[@francisco-leal]

Well done! Can you tell what are the minimum width of tiers for keyboards?

[@darrylday30]

Woody, thanks for the review. There’s very little info like this on the web. I’d love to see something on the Stay stands as they seem to solve the weight and bulk issues for column stands. I can’t get them in Canada yet but it looks like you can get them in Europe.

[@DrawAndErase]

I've been using the STAY music tower double stand, really easy to carry and set up for live, it's similar to the ultimate but the 3 legs are more like the spider. Probably the best stand I've ever used and looks awesome on stage! I ended up getting 2 of them from STAY music and I got the lighter slim version for lightweight single keyboard use.

[@darrylday30]

Where did you get the Stay Stand? I can’t find them in Canada.

[@DrawAndErase]

@@darrylday30 I think I got it from Amazon, though I'm in the UK. Korg used to have them also.

[@viper9x]

Love the look of column stands and would definitely consider the Ultimate Support Apex were I touring and needing of a two tier stand, however no Column stand will ever beat a Z-Frame (like the Roland KS10Z) in terms of stability in my opinion. Then again, I am not sure its a fair comparison with the typical Z-Frame usually being a single tier stand. For a clumsy bugger like myself, stability is king over style, but if they ever made a column stand with a similar stability to my Z-frame, I would grab one in a heartbeat.

[@MrDecibel123]

What is the length of the lower arms in inches

[@ToastandJam52]

I have the QuikLok WS-421 stand for a single keyboard and it is rock solid! It cost me $CDN110 new. When not in use it easily collapses into a very small flat package, albeit a heavy one. I would highly recommend it as I can't stand any keyboard movement when playing and this does the trick! (I did try three others before settling on this one)

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for the recommendation, quiklok another iconic stand brand!

[@darrylday30]

Weighs about the same as the apex. I might get one. There’s not much room for pedals under my apex.

[@PhillyBoyRoy]

Where do you keep the stand for your sheet music? I have a DX-7 mk1 and really struggling to find or create an original music stand to fit into the holes, as Yamaha intended.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

good luck finding one, my DX came with it! otherwise many 3rd party floor stqnds are available.

[@madpaul6520]

I bought the Apex after your tutorial on how to build it up. Absolutely love it.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

that was a while ago! glad the vid was helpful.

[@corneliusmulhollandmusic3570]

Thanks for the review Woody! it was very informative although it would be nice if you had put both of the column stands in their highest possible positions to see how they compare for us taller keyboardists. Thanks for the review! 👍👍❤❤❤❤❤

[@kiwictor3752]

4 me, the Ultimate is the ultimate... :) I used a Deltex 4 decades, and it was good. De gustibus non est disputandum

[@dessiplaer]

I remember the movie "The Night of the Triffids". I remember seeing the movie at a Drive-In Theater, and at the ticket booth, the management handed out packets of sun flower seeds and called them Triffid seeds. I still have an old Untimate Support A frame double stand made with tubular aluminum. I bought a couple of side extensions for it for smaller keyboards or computers. I also have a heavy duty single stand I use at church for my Yamaha s90xs which weighs a ton. It had a Z shape to it, and it's very solid. They make a double version of it as well. Fun video and original in content. I don't remember seeing any reviews on stands, and I think what platform on which you place your expensive equipment deserve some consideration.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

the z stands seem quite nice, should check one out someday! yes, stands and amplication much overlooked essential keyboard accessories, maybe even add bench to that list!

[@russellhooke9791]

Hi woody. Bought an Apex (bazooka) when they first came out in the 80s in Australia. I was an early adopter i guess. It was great untill the legs would continually slide out the bazookas base while you were walking to a gig often tripping you up. Especially dangerous if carrying a cased keyboard in other hand. Also eventually the handle broke necessitating carrying the bazooka under your arm or in both hands. It was wobbly a bit but that never worried me as it felt part of the 80s. I liked it a lot but let it go due to its schlepping problems and weight. I did pick up a used Roland branded Deltex for home use which was the cheaper version that had fixed legs. Still have it. But everything is different other than the looking like the Apex. For gigging i now have the Stays Slim with raised legs making a shorter bazooka body thus finding its lightweight portability a blessing. Note: the Stays Tower model is a direct competitor to the Apex as its bigger than the Slim thus approximates the Apex and can take a mic boom. It has raised legs for pedal placement. All tower stands still have wobble and so does the Stays Slim but mind you im using an 88 note piano on whats meant to be a 61 note stand but still within weight constaints. So for this little tower taking a 11.5 kg piano i dont mind the wobble. Infact it reminds me of using my Apex in the 80s without the weight schlep. Thats nostalgia is a happy consequence untill i decide its not hee hee. 30:21

[@WoodyPianoShack]

great insights from you there russell, thank you for sharing with us!

[@chuckpadgettmusic]

I bought my first Apex Ultimate used around 25 years ago and I loved it so much that I now own four (each with a third tier aded) and would not consider any other stand. I’m looking to pick up a fifth as I’ve acquired a lot of gear recently, including some desktop units mounted in three tier stands that I can place either alone on one tier or sid by side by putting a shelf on the arms to fit the widt of two racks, accommodating six units on a single tier along with two other keyboards and still coming in at a fraction of the 250 pound capacity. I can even put Behringer’s System 55 on one tier with a keyboard below it and it remains sturdy. Brilliant design and built like a tank.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for the review, great stuff!

[@leslie1526]

May I suggest future review please? How about head to head comparison between NI Kontrol MK3 vs KORG MainStage? Curious about build quality, keybed feel, etc;

[@WoodyPianoShack]

korg offered me a mainstage to try out, but i wasn't interested in doing another controller review at the time, but maybe I should reconsider. thx for the suggestion.

[@stevec.1802]

Woody, have you checked out the Quik Lok SL-930? Very good presentation and review.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

no, i have not tried the quiklok apart from an x-stand decades ago!

[@WayneMusicianUK]

Had the SL-930, also a load of garbage and wobbles all over the place

[@calikokat100]

I like the Roland stand because the legs are NOT protruding to the back or front...thus allowing the keyboard to lie flush against a wall with little or no gap betwenn the keyboard and wall...and thereby taking up less space in the room...

[@seriocoster]

Hi Woody If someone walk into the keyboard on the back of the Ultimate.....lets say in the pause of your gig.... Could be the sound engineer or a roady.... The whole thing will fall forwards. With the spider this is impossible...... Thats why i replace it with the spider. Look at the Legs of the stands then you will know immediately why😮

[@WoodyPianoShack]

yeah, i totally see what you mean! i have always been concerned with someone leaning on the back corner of the keyboard, that is unsupported and will send it crashing to the floor. same risk on both stands!

[@Rogwatford]

My spider pro arrived today after much trepidation after finding your review. At the moment all 4 feet touch the ground at the same time so there’s just a little bounce from the arms, otherwise it’s very stable. Did you say yours was secondhand? That might explain a lot.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

mine was secondhand yes, but the latest version afaik. glad you are getting on with yours, enjoy!

[@scottk3292]

I was going to look into possibly buying a 3rd level (extra 2nd level) for the K&M, as I want to have 3 keyboards available in limited space. However, hearing about them being a bit wobbly, I'm not sure about that. The A-frame style stand which I found on Amazon doesn't seem to be wide enough to accomodate my 88-key controller, so I'm.not quite sure what to do. I guess I need to hit the wood shop and build my own stand?

[@WoodyPianoShack]

right, A frames are great for studio, but restrict the maximum width of the boards. Jaspers A stands here in EU are available with many tier options, heights and widths.

[@scottk3292]

@@WoodyPianoShack Thanks for the tip! The X stand with two extensions on top looks like an excuse to get rid of old gear (sorry Honey, it fell! Now I have to buy a new Polybrute!). I'm considering the Standtastic 103KS, but would rather a frame that surrounds the keyboards, as they'll be in an area with foot traffic.

[@BlueJavaTN]

Hi Woody - I think the Apex is good for home use, but after a few uses at gigs I had one of the legs fall out and discovered there are no spare parts available for repair. I kept calling support hoping a spare leg would become available from a return but to no avail. It is now just an expensive piece of metal in a nice bag. I'm back to using a much cheaper x-stand that is a little bulkier but has lasted for years.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

that's really poor, yes there are a lot of complicated moving parts compared with an X!

[@steffenfriedle3254]

Sorry - I used it for around 500 gigs - had also a microphone arm connected and had never any issues ..

[@BlueJavaTN]

Wish mine had lasted more than a dozen gigs and I also had the microphone arm that is still okay, but I still cannot understand why Ultimate does not offer spare parts for the legs as this has to be a more typical failure point? Another question would be has the quality declined in recent years? In my case one of the three legs fell out of the body of the stand and was lost during a take down of equipment. @@steffenfriedle3254

[@darrylday30]

I’ve had mine for twenty years. Probably 500 gigs and I finally broke the carry handle. I couldn’t get parts either, Ultimate support didn’t respond to my email. Lucky for me, my friend and fellow keyboard player had a spare repair handle!

[@StephenStapleton]

I have 3 spider pros , baby spider for sitting and one silver and one red taller version. All 3 stands have the issue you experience woody with the out of sync alignment. The upper tiers on all 3 of my stands seem to need one of the arms extended one notch on just one side for them to be lined up , not sure why they are built this way and thought it was a fault on my baby spider until I got the other two and noticed they are just the same. That said once you fiddle around with the alignment they are great stands. Love your videos.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for the feedback and advice! i am stil tempted to get the baby, because i think it is an attractive look in my videos. i noticed that yamaha used one in the Genos 2 launch live stream, and many people were critical in the chat of the wobbly stand!

[@StephenStapleton]

@@WoodyPianoShack yes both versions do wobble when you play hard but they are quite secure and built like tanks, its just the wobble gives you an uneasy feeling. Ive not come across many stands that don't have any kind of wobble but these stands only produce wobble from the arms as a kind of side swing where as some stands have tendancy to lean either backwards or forwards which is more of a concern. The only stand ive found to be absolutely bullet proof of any unsteadiness is the Gibralter racks, they are both customisable and rock solid you can do gymnastics off them. Love watching your vids and look forward to more

[@infojunkie4989]

See my other comment - I had same issue regarding the tier arm adjustment, but re-seating the mechanism fixed it. The little square nuts that enable the mechanism have to be seated just so for it to be smooth.

[@mrdali67]

Spider Stands only plus is they look good on stage and is only usable When your standing, and dependent on the design can be easier to carry and take less space in the van or trailer.They are extremely unstable and kinda cumbersome to mingle with and adjust for proper support for your pressious boards. where the K&M classic stands for best stability with heavy Pianos for sitting down is taking more time setting up and takes more space when transporting it. Have never seen standard available stands for more than 2 keyboards that have enough adjusting to align they keyboards if you care for your back, arms and legs. Including the Spider stands. But a custom made stand to your liking can be very expensive

[@RonWesterbeek]

Thanks, Woody. the weights seem reasonable. 😅

[@JasonMcFly]

4:16 Upper Manual 😂😂 Found the tone wheel nerd!!! Excellent demo comparison Woody. I’ve been wanting an Apex for a long time

[@WoodyPianoShack]

guilty as charged!

[@spark9x-music]

Nice, but i gues you have never Trier to use Blackpanthersystem keybordstands ... much more stable with much more Flexibilität 😊

[@kalinmirchev]

The next time you have time and budget, check the STAY Tower Keyboard Stand, I wonder how it compares to the Ultimate Apex

[@adiero]

Nice shootout! 1984: Ultimate suport A-Frame stand. 3 tiere - Memory Moog (heavy) - Roland Sh1000 - MS 20. Ohh yes: those were the days. Used on many gigs, stadiums etc. Was about 300 ca back in the day, set-up and tear down in 10 minutes. Totaly adjustable for height and angle. Had a bit of bounce in the angle, in a nice way, but stable as fk. No issues forward, side, height. Lost in a house fire. If you can find one, give it a try. Peace! I love your work.

[@LarryJanca]

if it wobbles, to me its' crap. I don't know how someone can play on a keyboard that wobbles. to me, the MOST ADJUSTABLE and the most STURDY stand is the Standtastic stands in either two or three tier

[@cam-inf-4w5]

The aluminum finish will always win me over as far as looks go but its not the one i would pick its like they go all the way then make something out of plastic that kindof undoes the point of the metal parts in the first place. Now the metal parts are just for looks. If the ultimate stand had an aluminum finish and adopted the flat arms of the other but kept its arms system it would be hands down winner. Also if they made the back leg longer on the ultimate im sure it would take away a lot of rock. Greta video. And great calves for a tall man must have family in the mountains. But for $700 im pretty sure i could go to a metal shop and have the guys build me whatever i wanted at that price.

[@pmaronna]

Nice socks ❤

[@omahahnful]

The Spider Pro is only 300 Euro on Thomann in Germany, so a way better value here. Personally not a big fan of the column-style keyboard stands though, I don't really know why but the looks don't appeal to me, I'd much rather prefer a subtle stand like the Roland KS-12

[@WoodyPianoShack]

true on the price, but still costs significantly more euros than the apex on thomann!

[@omahahnful]

@@WoodyPianoShack I didn't even look that up, 200 euros for the apex is a great value

[@Timborob]

I have a similar stand to the KS12 made by Stagg here in the UK which sells for around £60. Nice and sturdy 👍

[@Timborob]

Stagg Adjustable mixer/keyboard stand MXS-A1

[@shack6111]

I have to admit that those are pretty, but I favor "Liquid" stands.

[@Jan-WillemvanDruenen]

You make a few small mistakes with the Spider, which may (unfairly) make it seem less stable. You had to pull the bottom legs apart a little beter, and you first have to press the carrière down slightly at the Desiree height: the they ‘click’ a little more stable into a kind of lock. And… Jaspers Standards are also an option for multiple keyboards :-)

[@X22GJP]

Thanks for the comparison Woody, just looking at stands myself and for my own home use, has helped me rule out column style - just not as practical or stable - more for show and performing, which I totally get, they do look good. While not the smallest footprint, I’ve been looking at the K&M Omega stands for their stability and modular nature to accommodate up to three tiers if needed.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

interesting stand, looks nice, wish it were available in chrome instead of boring black!

[@dejan.stankovic]

You are right. I made copy of K&M Omega stand for a fraction of price (base + 1 pair of tiers). It's sturdy as tank, and stabile for 10 mark. Downside is - it is not so portable. About attractive look on stage, column stands are better, but Omega isn't ugly at all.

[@microbug3487]

There is also an Omega Pro version. The difference to the non-pro is the foldable legs for better transport. The Omegas are very heavy, I use one at home.

[@dejan.stankovic]

@@microbug3487 Thank you for this info. Right, basic Omega has probably only one disadvantage - even folded it is a bit too big. My friend used to take both legs out of frame and used to put them next to the frame by using welcro "tapes" so then size of stand for transport was reduced to size of the frame. But, in general it is probably stand that is better to stay at one place than to be used for frequent gigs. For example, I use double legged x-stand with second tiers for gigs. I never liked x-stands but this one is very stabile and does good work. It also is not heavy and it is quite compact.

[@faceboxtv4789]

What about a Z type stand isn’t more strong ?

[@WoodyPianoShack]

Never tried one but I am sure a good one will be strong and stable

[@pascalschwaller7573]

I still have my K&M Spider Pro 1st generation but don‘t recommend them. They‘re too wobbly for live performance. I use it for synths i don‘t use much in a corner of my room. Thank you for the video! I would have like to see how the column stands would have compared to a table stand with an additional support for a 2nd keyboard on top.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

you are welcome! a mixed bag of comments here from spider owners, some defending its stability and others confirming my findings.

[@str8upme2]

Spider is the best for me just the price doubled since and if it’s in one place

[@classicarcadeamusementpark4242]

Hi Woody. And don't forget in this current age focused of light weight keyboards such as the MODX & Fantom 0 to include for your comparison against the Apex stand & Spider, the Stay Music "Slim" 2 tier stand from Brazil. I ordered mine last year, and I believe it was around $217 and free shipping to the USA including the basic carry bag and they offered a more durable one for extra. 5 years ago I was looking for an alternative live keyboard rig, because the rig I had used for years was just too heavy and time consuming to deal with setting up for shows. The MODX came out and was the perfect solution, along with another light weight MIDI controller or two all of which I use with VST synths on my laptop too. But what about.......a matching keyboard stand that was also ground breaking too? Via KZbin demo I discovered this incredible "Slim" 2 tier stand totally different than anything I had seen in all my years of playing since the DX7 was king. I've used an "Invisible" 2 tier stand since 1990 previously with my heavier keyboards, and the Invisible was the lightest and most compact I had seen previously, but this new "Slim" stand is much lighter and much more compact. I can carry it with my pinky! It's like not even carrying a stand at all, and saves me trips to the car too. I had my stand shipped from Brazil to the USA factory direct. It seems the KZbin video for it I recommend titled "QUICK ASSEMBLY - STAY Keyboard Stand - Slim Model" is from Korg UK demoing the Stay Music Slim 2 tier stand. At one point I considered switching from my Invisible stand to an Apex to have 3 tiers, but the Apex was way too heavy and packed much larger stored in my small car. I also like to sometimes push my pedals under the keyboards, and no possible on the Apex. I did like that it had an option to add a mic, but the sound companies usually bring mic stands for my bands. I also have a GoStand that weighs a few ounces. I see way too many people out there using large heavy stands like the Apex for compact light weight keyboards. That is no longer required. Be sure to check out this.....revolutionary Slim stand.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for the tips on the slim stand, great to investigate for our US viewers, but probably unavailable over here in EU.

[@classicarcadeamusementpark4242]

@@WoodyPianoShack One of the videos on KZbin is from Korg UK. There is likely a UK distributor. Stay Music likely can ship them to Europe I'd think. There is no 2 tier keyboard stand that is "remotely" as light weight, stores as compact or as quick to setup on the market. It's truly to a totally unique product as a 2 tier stand. The only downsides are....if you do had lot of hard hitting, piano hammering, it can wobble a bit. As mainly a lead synth player and rock organist, generally not a problem for me. I play some piano too, but not as much. It's limited to 22 lbs keyboards per tier. Only works with light weight keyboards, but there are plenty of us now using them. I was amazed when I saw the demo video, and the product is exactly as shown. Makes playing gigs much easier and also saves a trip back to the car to grab a 2 tier keyboard stand.

[@Nightowl427272]

I checked out some videos on the Slim stands back in late 2020. I was definitely intrigued, they looked perfect for my needs, but everything was still a mess back then and I couldn’t even find out if they were still in business so I had to go with the K&M. It sounds like you’re very happy with yours. How long have you had yours? Do you perform with it often? Did you get the two-tier? How stable is it? Sorry about all the questions…lol. Edit: Ahh, I read your other post here and it answers my questions. Cheers!

[@alexanderringler5747]

It is indeed an unfair comparison between spider and tablelike stands. I will always prefere tablelike, because of my bass-pedal-keyboard on the floor. Both spiders don't give me enough room on the floor - and speaking of room, both spiders are taking quite a lot of room in my studio and deny me the room for a sheetmusic stand. So it come here to preferences. I think it is undeniable to say, that the spider looks cooler on a gig, it is really sturdy... I also have one because of its features... but to me it is not practial.

[@buraktokgoz41]

Hercules stands are ok especially for home use...

[@arthurallsopp9344]

Woody there is an attachment you can buy to put a mic Boom on top of the Ultimate Support Apex.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

i don't doubt it, but not included. thanks!

[@arthurallsopp9344]

@@WoodyPianoShack It is included when you buy the Pro version Woody. Which is still cheaper and better than the Spider.

[@damonsummers]

Apex every time! ( looks like you have the old version) Toured with apex and traditional Quik-lok two tier stands, Apex looks great on stage, while traditional looks all metal in the way of the audience seeing all (if they want to or not!)😂

[@procta2343]

I own a K&M spider that has my 3 keyboards, i have bought the third set of arms, so i could have the third keyboard, i used the standard base units, but i later swopped that over for another set of angled units, as i found when sitting down i couldn't really fiddle with the buttons of the middle keyboard, plus i couldn't really adjust it more. So swopping that with the angled set made it more easier and better to for adjustment. Also the extras you can buy are great too, like the music stand etc. Only problem i found is the arms can wobble, with heavy workstation synths, like the Kurzweil 2600 xs I have had to have the arms fully out for that, but i am sure i could buy a triangle plate that may stop that. The two top keyboards are just simple Casio CTKs from back in the 90s lol. So very light boards. Yeah i should have something more meaty keyboard wise on the top tiers. But going back to the weight thing with the kurzweil, i might look at the roland stand, to put the Kurzweil on. to make it more sturdy. and do away with the bottom tier. I am starting to think that K&M maybe better with lighter keyboards, rather than hammer action synths. Even though i have seen Kronos 88 key on, and a Roland fantom 6 on, which i think maybe a very limit, weight wise. Not sure if the Kronos is as boxy as the Kurzweil 2600 xs is.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

yeah, even though you can put a heavy board on the column stand does not mean you should!

[@procta2343]

@@WoodyPianoShack if i known what i know now, about the K&M stand, id have just upgraded on what it was sitting on in the 1st place. Which i suspect is why some people move these on,

[@Ishnala717]

You gave a great effort in comparing these stands. Thank you. However, you probably could have saved about 25 minutes and just said the spider sucks. I don't think it does but Im not sure i have ever seen someone try so hard to hate something in a neutral comparison. Thanks just the same.

[@furiobisotti8150]

Extremely useful video as usual from Woody. I was interested, but I won't buy any of them. I am 59 yo and I play live with two keyboards and a laptop. Well sitting down on a piano bench. So I am interested to buy modular things and more traditional. I can survive without fashionable columns like these things.

[@madness8556]

I spent AUD$500 on the Ultimate Support Apex stand way back in 1995 and mark my word that it wasn't worth that amount! The reason is that within 6 months, the rubber on the tiers started coming off, the screws that tightened the upper and lower tier clamps broke making it practically impossible to change their height. The rubber grip on the back leg also came off and I wasn't being rough with the stand, despite the fact that I was doing a lot of gigs at the time. For the astronomical amount that I paid, it should have been much more robust and I honestly can't recommend it.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

that's a pretty rought experience, thx for sharing! we can perhaps hope that quality has improved since 95...

[@JanIversen-t7y]

I’m sorry to say, but the quality of the China made Ultimate stand is bad. I had the same experience as madness8556. So no, I don’t recommend it. I also own a V-stand from Ultimate, same problems. So they are now collecting dust in my shed! I use K&M stands for my Hammond XK-5 and my Korg Kronos 88. Very solid and sturdy stands 👍Ps! Thanks for your videos 👍🎹

[@culttelevision]

USS were always the best back in the 80s. Very hard to get in the UK in those days if you didn't go to a pro supplier but way better than the ubiquitous QuikLok.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

true, i remember those days

[@JoseVGavila]

Hi Woody, I am surprised to find that you have so many negatives towards the K&M. There is no need to do that upwards movement to adjust height (I have even an extra third support and can adjust all without doing that weird movement). The K&M is sturdier than the Ultimate The space for pedals is an excellent idea. There are accessories to fit a laptop or a tablet, all very well made. Then you need to assemble it correctly, the arms should sit properly. Mine is rock solid with a MONTAGE 6 on lower support. Even a MODX6+ wotks fine, and it is lighter than the MONTAGE. Yours show there is some problem on its legs, as the four points don't touch the floor at same time, and your floor seems to be nicely levelled. And then you show the price in USA for the Spider but not the price in UE for the Apex... Not a great unbiased review as you use to do

[@WoodyPianoShack]

this is completely unbiased, i have no relationships with either company! thanks for sharing your opinions though for some balance.

[@navysararmygrunt4037]

You need to check out this stand: Gibraltar GKS-DBKT88 Double Key Tree Large 2-Tier Keyboard Stand - Chrome

[@WoodyPianoShack]

that's one i have my eye on, but 1200 usd in my country. guess i will have to try to get sponsored!

[@navysararmygrunt4037]

Yeah, it doesn't move one bit and is very sturdy and stable. @@WoodyPianoShack

[@WayneMusicianUK]

I have the Gibraltar stand you mentioned, customised for me and my height and extra weight for top tier

[@WayneMusicianUK]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o53MpIZrjNOsoacsi=UpKwKxjX9DfakGLc

[@alienzardsketter.9076]

Woody sometimes I play ten synths at once...I have X stands with three teir ,,I have to build my own keyboard stands ,,I come up with some very Odd things I use very hard wood and drill holes and butterfly wing nuts ,, I mix the metal and the wood and paint it all black ,, there can be no WOBBLE non what so ever !! I hate that it will mess with your playing ,,I never did like these kind of keyboard stands ,,, the big large middle looked like a fence post ,,, maybe if I put some birbe wire and a cow or something beside me ,, it would look like I was playing synths on the farm ,,, No wabble never glad you did this ,,, video ,, If they would make the fence post what I call it smaller and add at least three teirs and make it much stronger ,,some kind of transparent very strong plastic so the keyboard stands would be like fiber optics and all kinds of lights could run thru the keyboard stands for a brilliant light show ,,, Now Look again I have thought of something never before thought of ,, and some one will make it and you will never hear of me and I want get a penny ,,,:( I Love the wood keyboard you are working on are you making some kind of synth your self so cool I Love the look of clean unfinished wood ,,is beautiful ,,,what Is the most hard plastic material that is transparent that light would glow ,, something like very strong transparent PVC ,,, I know there must be some kind of extreemly strong and transparent plastics of some kind ? yes I thought of it first ,,, that dont make me crazy does it ? Na not at all just creative ..and practical ,,,

[@DmitryGorbushin]

If I would be a member of Chvrches I would feel myself kind of embarrassed as you don't remember the name of the well known band :-) But I am not Iain nor Martin and certainly I'm not Lauren so I found it kind of funny.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

it was a bit funny and weird, i agree. haven;t listened to any of their music I must confess.

[@Nightowl427272]

- You don’t have to re-attach the top on the Spider, it’s only there to serve as a platform for the attachable mic-stand or other accessories. That said, removing/attaching it is a PIA. - The Spider exists in direct response to the Ultimate Apex’s and Deltex’s HUGE flaw…no space where your foot pedal would naturally go. You called it no big deal in this video; neither myself nor any other keyboard player I’ve ever met would agree with you. It’s an uncomfortable hassle that we all loathe. - Adjusting the Spider’s arm-height is brain-dead simple and faster than the Apex, not the conundrum you made it out to be. 🙄 The Apex is more compact, easier to transport, slightly more stable, probably more durable (they’re virtually indestructible), less expensive and a classic of elegant simplicity. But I’ll never go back after having experienced the bliss of a clear foot-area that the Spider provides. After 2 years and a couple hundred gigs it’s easily the best stand I’ve ever owned or seen.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for your review and clarifications! i agree with most. by the way, i meant that you have to dismantle the top of the stand to remove a tier, which I know for a fact since I had to do it earlier today!

[@ChrisP3000x]

If a player uses pedals, there's only one obvious choice, the Spider. And btw, the boom arm screw is useless on the Spider since it sits in plastic, and the whole boom arm wobbles, plus very finicky to screw on/off. Unfortunately an idiotic design in regards to that.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

good to know, thanks!

[@wilkopiano]

If you don’t want the top tier on k and m you just fold them back into the recess. 😂 The thing with stands like this is they obscure you face on set. So really they are for side on facing audience. Main piano like a nord would be better on stand 3 (roland). Quality on k and m is a 9, arms are supposed to angled downwards its about wrist angle when playing 2 boards. Straight on apex isn’t ergonomic. You neglected to mention pedals get in the way on the apex where as spider all your pedals fit underneath. Not to mention the k and m has a lot more accessories like mic arm, sheet music stand, laptop stand all in one. Portability of carrying just one k and m instead of separate mic stand, sheet music stand. Carry one thing instead of 3.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thx for the comment, we did discuss the pedals, but I never had a problem with the apex in that regard. good point about ergonomics. actually folding the top tier into the column does not work as it forces the lower manual to be too low down. you have to dismantle the column and remove it.

[@andrewgarley1400]

With expensive synths, I would be nervous, and look too wobbly for my liking, Roland wins for me, but only single

[@EspenKraft]

My concern is all about how they look and the Ultimate beats the terrible looking K&M to a pulp. The K&M looks like Treebeard.

[@gautrstafr]

I actually prefer the Spider! It's all preference though

[@Nightowl427272]

The Spider’s open foot area trumps any other consideration we might consider pluses (and there are a few) for the Apex. Oddly, the Spider is the only stand I’ve ever received compliments on based on it’s utility AND looks. All that said, my Apex is damn near 30 years old and I’m quite certain the Spider would not have lasted (won’t last, but I’ll be dead by then…lol) 30 years.

[@psaint9720]

the best is the Spider. but it is lest ugly in black ;)

[@e-conrecords4665]

These stands are too shallow. Arms aren’t long enough. I’ve had a few synths that wouldn’t fit into the stand… and the central column often gets in the way of audio & power jacks. Mostly impractical.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

good point, the column can block access to essential ports, forcing you to move the keyboard outwards resulting in more bounce.

[@fritsvanzanten3573]

6:09 Those flowers don't seems very engaged....

[@WayneMusicianUK]

I had this Spider Pro keyboard stand, worst stand I’ve ever owned! The legs snapped and my Roland Fantom X8 and Yamaha Motif ES7 fell to the floor, it wobbled and rocked, got compensation from K&M for repair bill - all other K&M stands are superb.. can’t understand WHY the spider pro is liked so much 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️😖😖

[@WoodyPianoShack]

ouch, buyers beware! or at least never load it up that much, 2 heavy keyboards you had there.

[@WayneMusicianUK]

⁠@@WoodyPianoShacknot really.. an 88 note weighted board on the bottom and a 76 note synth on top, no different to anyone else ? Fantom was 29kg and Motif was 19kg, well within the accepted weight limit

[@paulblood9824]

For me, the ultimate support Apex stand has been a huge disappointment. The legs got stuck inside and cannot be taken out. I un screwed the thing and cut up my fingers on the very sharp edges. I’m literally bleeding right now trying to put this thing back together. It’s big clunky heavy and hard to maneuver. It will probably be on my curb just in time for bulky trash day. What a big piece of garbage this thing is!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

ouch! hope the fingers are ok again soon