Castle Super Beast Clips: The Ending Of Medium Is Woof

[@BTM8109]

Silent Hill 2 achievement: "Hey, sometimes you gotta smoke a bitch"

[@li-limandragon9287]

“Yo James you’re smothering Mary” Achievement unlocked.

[@TheMrrccava]

Is this the woolie version of the achievement?

[@VerdeMorte]

Achievement *Pillow Talk*

[@Slasher9485]

I think my favorite thing that happens in these podcasts is Woolie trying to discern how bad something is and gives an educated guess only for Pat to assure woolie that it is much worse than he hypothesized.

[@en4135]

My favorite part of the Medium is when you go into a pedophiles brain and discover it's seperated between an entity called Child-Eater and the innocent child side of the guys brain. And then you kill the innocent child side out of vengeance while it begs you for help for what the Child-Eater apparently caused.

[@bloodprince100]

is that real or are you joking? I don't know which answer I want tho

[@en4135]

@@bloodprince100 It's very real

[@antthefool7637]

This sounds like a dumpster fire

[@abyssGazerTV]

Is that entire game just about killing innocent people? What you just described is the game separating out the innocent side of a person and killing them but specifically not killing the guilty side.

[@en4135]

@@abyssGazerTV Well the game ends with you killing the victim of the Pedophile because her trauma is manifesting a demon so

[@cottonmouthaudio5041]

Blooper Team's Silent Hill 2 ends with a dude putting a hand on James's shoulder and saying "You did what you had to man".

[@FightCain]

And the dude was the same doctor who told James that Mary will not live long

[@li-limandragon9287]

If Blooper Team made SH2, they’d probably have you kill Angela since she got abused by her dad and brother and give you an achievement for it. Utter subhuman douchebags.

[@FredCracklin]

@@li-limandragon9287 You're getting angry at an imaginary scenario that they never made. Even if they did that it's imaginary.

[@navarroguard7911]

Boss fight against evil monster angela

[@li-limandragon9287]

@@FredCracklin Nah just annoyed at Medium’s ending not my imaginary example.

[@everettvonscott]

Fade to black, gunshot. Film student 101.

[@Horatio787]

Watch the Pre Rec stream of The Order 1886. The ending and credits are just Rich Evans babbling incoherently and screaming at that.

[@everettvonscott]

@@Horatio787 Close! Best of the Worst episode with The Item!

[@Horatio787]

@@everettvonscott No dude you don't understand. I've never heard Rich legitimately scream in anger, but he let's out a huge, "FUUUUUUCK! YOOOOOOOOUUUUU!" during those credits. It's really worth watching.

[@Xifko]

@@Horatio787 do you have the link

[@Horatio787]

@@Xifko kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJOVXputodOggKM That whole stream is gold, but this ending is another level.

[@hunterpyle1256]

Man, this game has got to be on par with that scene from Beyond Two Sould when William Dafoe kills himself and its treated like a good thing with him reuniting with his family in the afterlife.

[@SabbyNeko]

I'd agree more if that wasn't what a lot of society unironically believes. It only comes across as sickening and immoral when it's blurted out all at once with no tact.

[@manticorephoenix]

@@SabbyNeko truly we live in a society

[@manticorephoenix]

@@SabbyNeko yeah the whole family should never be separated no matter what stance is pretty funny when you hold it to the fire

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

@@SabbyNeko a lot of society believes that suicide is rad?

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@miguelnewmexico8641 The Raddest

[@travissloan9411]

"Hey kids, sorry you spent your childhood being constantly molested and sexually assaulted" *Shotgun Cocking Noise*

[@JAKX091]

Nothin personal kid.

[@Dragon4234]

*The Only Thing They Fear is You starts playing*

[@alexanderdaviescastle8134]

If they grow up to be abusers themselves, what do you do with them?

[@theprofesionalist7927]

It's not that there's an actual rapist or evil spirit out there stalking you; it's that this monster is following you everywhere cuz of past trauma and we're not gonna be able solve the problem by helping you get over the trauma so you've gotta go kid. I'm not a #metoo person, but that just seems so fucked.

[@manticorephoenix]

@@theprofesionalist7927 all I keep thinking about that is, welp the self identified red pills keep whining their isn’t enough stories from their point of view, well they got their wish it seems

[@DMGamer_PC]

When it comes to the Yakuza 0 moment, I feel like in context it was MEANT to be horrible, especially to Kiryu. It was totally unnecessary, and that's the whole point. Awano is literally demonstrating how he can and will hurt anyone he wants to force Kiryu to play along. Don't forget, it was right after he started talking about how he paid a visit to the Sunflower orphanage to try to get under Kiryu's skin. Killing the girl he was dancing with was just a display of callousness to show what he's willing to do. It's horrible, yes. But in context, it's also supposed to be.

[@patrickzantomaster]

Awano is a bona fide Yakuza, I don’t know what Woolie was expecting. You don’t become a Captain in the Tojo Clan because you can dance.

[@JoseRS1186]

@@patrickzantomaster He wants that evil to carry through, I would imagine. It isn't about the act being realistic or fitting a gangster. A person who just murders a woman who was serving him "to get a reaction" is expected to not be given any sympathy once his evil is established. But Yakuza is weird. There is a lot of sympathy for the devil, even if that sympathy is towards who that person "could" have been instead of the character that they are. Heroes in Yakuza are good because they show mercy to the unpitiable. It clashes pretty hard with Western Vengeance tropes.

[@patrickzantomaster]

@@JoseRS1186 it’s not sympathy, it’s being an entertaining character because of his presentation. A real person isn’t just evil and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Same can be said for Yakuza. They are gangster who kill people and it’s treated like a business but they can also seem like nice people from time to time that just drink and dance and have fun. Woolie is too caught up in tropes and thinks “oh this character does this so he MUST be that archetype” and then says that character is automatically flawed because he defied his expectations. It’s good if you want to write off one note characters. But if you give Woolie a Lord of the Rings Character, he will form his opinion and stay on that path and every time that character does not act like he expected he will use it as a character flaw, even though he only had a first impression.

[@JoseRS1186]

@@patrickzantomaster "It's not sympathy- blah blah blah" Okay, you didn't read anything I posted. Your post didn't even make sense. "not sympathy, it's an entertaining character" is a nothing response. And then you follow it up with psychoanalyzing Woolie. Very weird. We all get Awano is a bad guy and an entertaining villain. That isn't the point.

[@patrickzantomaster]

@@JoseRS1186 if you didn’t want to interact, then why answer at all?

[@LilAnonomus]

Can we get a time lapse of one frame from every podcast? (Since they started recording separately.) I bet it would have Woolie warping all over the place with different lighting while Pat never moves but switches shirts.

[@bionicghost2772]

And sometimes there's a dog.

[@malikwest8367]

And now he moved so there would be two different backgrounds (the place he is staying at until the house is ready and his new house)

[@death2boredom338]

@@bionicghost2772 Don't forget the mentally disabled cat.

[@joescannoli7660]

@@malikwest8367 wtf is up with woolie moving all the time? Is my mans evading the police or what? He jumping from safe house to safe house? The world needs to know, I need to know!

[@Iceax_]

@@joescannoli7660 I think its just him moving his stuff around his house/apartment. like reorganizing and such

[@zaymclemore]

What Woolie is talking about is God of war 3, where you take Poseidons princess handcuffed over to a wheel and use her weight to hold the wheel up so Kratos can pass through a door. But you can hear her screaming and die when the weight of the wheel is to heavy. The trophy was called "I didnt do it... But I wish I did." Which was removed when the game was re-released as God of War III remastered for PS4.

[@Judgement_Kazzy]

Even that makes a lot more sense, since Kratos is explicitly presented as a fully unhinged psycho with a murderboner the size of Olympus itself, rather than a moral authority who's supposedly doing the right thing.

[@alexanderdaviescastle8134]

@@Judgement_Kazzy Especially in the third game, where he's so unhinged he destroys the entire world.

[@TheDapperCat]

I hated that part it was so uncomfortable

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

But that’s totally in-tone for god of war, there are worse things in postal

[@HeroToxiko]

im guessing Timmy the debater was behind that one.

[@Kango234]

I love how Woolie literally cannot comprehend how bad this story is.

[@TheMrrccava]

It's the best part of The Medium. The incomprehensible retardness of the plot is hands down the best part because I can laugh at Woolies confusion. "Story so bad it confused the testers" achievement unlocked

[@DoctorTillinghast]

All this is missing is the devs throwing a hissy-fit on twitter about how people don't get their game.

[@waj9876]

I want that to happen, because I want to know what the "actual" message was.

[@DoctorTillinghast]

@@waj9876 And the further away from what was actually portrayed in the game it was, the better it will be.

[@conelybiscuit4985]

technically only an ex-Bloober dev, but you finally got your wish with Stray Souls!

[@DoctorTillinghast]

Wohoo!@@conelybiscuit4985

[@TheAntiSanta]

God, I hate listening to Pat saying something I disagree with, but when he's shitting on something I also think should be shit on, that feeling is so fucking good.

[@imedudes2196]

Pat's particular brand of righteous anger is extremely satisfying to listen to. He wasn't called "angriest pat" for nothing, I suppose

[@buckmoonmedia5113]

Yeah, I don't know what he sees in Shattered Memories, but at least he's mad at Medium for all the right reasons

[@Guciom]

So you take pleasure in confirmation bias?

[@pickledparsleyparty]

I'll be honest. I just bought this game, because Pat is wrong so often that I'm convinced he's wrong about the ending The Medium. The only person more wrong than Pat is that portion of Pat's chat who feed him ideas loudly on Twitter and during streams. The people interpreting the ending he never played for him, in other words.

[@LtSprinkulz]

@@BunkyFamba then why are you here

[@theenglishman]

Papo & Yo had a much better “you can’t save everyone” message that was downright heartrending.

[@lbcyber]

**Papo & Yo** spoilers . . . . It also didn't treat the victim of abuse as anything other than a victim of abuse. The Monster is the abuser, and the message is you don't owe them forgiveness. You can let them go.

[@elegantcat1496]

You can pinpoint the exact moment when morale damage was taken

[@FrankieSmileShow]

The Mediums ending to me sounds like one of those really bad cases of myopic metaphors; where a story's basic premise is first put together as psychological horror, but then its writing quickly loses track of the story's themes and just write for impactful scenes and twists, disregarding what those scenes mean for the story at large, resulting in something with a bizarre message.

[@jameskennedy7906]

To me it looks like they were trying to use the cycle of abuse as a theme, but they botched it to hell.

[@chrisossu2070]

It's the issue of the writers trying to have their cake and eat it too with the Maw. If the Maw was just a literal demon that hopped from Medium to Medium, then this would've come across as just a tragic shoot the dog moment. Unfortunately, they decided that the Maw had to also be a metaphor because they were trying to ape off of Silent Hill (even though Silent Hill totally just had legit demons in addition to metaphor monsters).

[@li-limandragon9287]

There’s a lot cases of imitators not understanding why the media they love works and producing the exact opposite of what media intended. Goblin Slayer takes the hardcore monsters raping women and badass angry guy in armour of Berserk and completely leaves out the genuine humanity, the quiet moments of serenity the beauty of life and life that Miura put to page. Then there’s Zack Snyder what only see the grittiness of the comics they like and don’t see or acknowledge the lighthearted pulp that comic book come from.

[@julioc.3158]

@@li-limandragon9287 Hold up, you do know you're only talking about the 1st episode of GS right? The entire rest of the series is basically just GS re-learning how to feel anything else other than "I want my revenge on goblins.", making friends and the quiet sweet moments of life not killing goblins.

[@Shonen_Hero]

​@@julioc.3158 Yeah probably not the best pull. I get the first episode of Goblin Slayer is really off-putting, and at first blush comes across as juvenile in it's subversion of typical hero tropes based on that episode alone. From the second episode onward though it really is less about darkly subverting fantasy narrative tropes, and more just a genuine exploration of the character, his job and his failings. I don't exactly blame anyone for not wanting to stick around to get to that point though, as that first episode left a very rough first impression and turned off a lot of people

[@julioc.3158]

@@Shonen_Hero the 1st episode really gives off the worst 1st impression, I get that it needed to stablish the goblins to be as horrible as fast as possible so we would "get" the why of the GS but man, it's just a bummer so many people get turned off with that bad 1st impression and that most people that do get past it expect more of a doom feel of "Kill all da gobos" but end up getting more of a DnD adventure.

[@li-limandragon9287]

@@julioc.3158 I know, but even later on where the story is more lighthearted the tone is still broken, you can have supposedly humorous scene where Goblin dreams about a hot anime girl while cartoonishly drooling which considering the early stuff in GS just comes off as disturbing rather than funny. I genuinely don’t mind Goblin Slayer but it can’t decide whether it’s a hardcore dark fantasy or a more lighthearted fantasy ensemble story. Even the the stuff you said about Goblin Slayer re-learning humanity is exactly what Guts goes through multiple times. GS cherry picks moments from other fantasy anime and I don’t think it works so well.

[@RadJordy]

Silent Hill 2 achievement for beating the final boss: "Consider this a Divorce"

[@averyaustin1]

As a victim dealing with my trauma, The Medium (to me) was made by people who don't get it and only think they do because they spoke to someone or read a book/saw it on tv and said "Yeah, we can do that". It's not a positive message to hear for people like me and that's frankly sad on their part... not to mention dangerous in the wrong circles.

[@CrocvsGator]

Yeah, as I mentioned in my post, I am a suicide attempt survivor, I literally can't handle games or other media that portray suicide as a "good" thing.

[@pareidolist]

"Senua's Sacrifice" is really the only example I can think of where people pulled that off, and that's only because they did a huge amount of research and interviews and stuff

[@Densoro]

It's like, they get so focused on 'wouldn't that be fucked up? Horror should be about things you do not want,' that they forget, 'oh, there's already people living this horror. This is not hypothetical. Maybe they've have enough fucked up in their lives.'

[@badwrongfun5541]

Keiichiro Toyama, director of Silent Hill 1 and the Siren series, announced his new studio Bokeh Studio is making a new horror game. The Silent Hill franchise is a walking corpse but I think whatever Toyama ends up making will be worth looking forward to for Silent Hill fans.

[@alephnole7009]

Siren 1&2 are still so good looking. The faces look better than modern 3D models honestly.

[@WTFisTingispingis]

I'm gonna have to look into that one.

[@alephnole7009]

@@WTFisTingispingis the English name is Forbidden Siren. There is also a later western remake that really drops the ball.

[@badwrongfun5541]

@@alephnole7009 I do think Blood Curse would still worth looking into for folks. Especially since it's way easier to get a hold of than the PS2 game and the reduced difficulty is gonna be a godsend to most people, even if the remake is a bit jank. They can always try the other one later no matter which they try first.

[@alephnole7009]

@@badwrongfun5541 agreed. It's like the Grudge to the Ju-On. Different but still worth experiencing.

[@TylerFederico]

I have long since been in the camp of Silent Hill staying dead. The time to revive it was with Silent Hills, but now it just feels like Konami is only giving it to Bloober Team because it will be cheaper to make. Kind of ironic that Silent Hill is being given to a developer that would probably be irrelevant if they hadn’t released a game that capitalized on the disappointment of Silent Hills being canceled by literally ripping off PT.

[@sasaki999pro]

God that level of irony never occurred to me, the lack of self awareness in Konami is atrocious

[@GameBooAdvancePlus]

I think the message was intended something like "Failure to overcome trauma has the capacity to turn you into a monster" which is very true but the execution and presentation is so warped and misguided it becomes "if you struggle dealing with trauma you're a lost cause and need to die".

[@teacakes6861]

The ultimate last stage of "Am i out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong"

[@WTFisTingispingis]

"It was the RAPE VICTIMS who were out of touch!" *gets the murder knife*

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

how right can the children be if i kill them first?

[@veedros]

This is all on top of the fact that the game expects you to feel sorry for a the man who raped the girl and created the monster because he had a bad childhood. With the game framing a father killing his daughter's rapist as being the equivalent of him killing a crying child.

[@CrocvsGator]

There was an achievement in EA'S Dante's Inferno for killing x amount of unbaptized babies called "Bad Nanny". This was not only against the message of the original book, it also protested by some organization of nannys. Also I believe one of the Overlord games had an achievement for killing baby seals.

[@remainprofane7732]

In my defence, those unbaptized babies were coming right at me

[@chrisossu2070]

Killing baby seals kind of fits into the black comedy category admittedly, if only because of the audacity of it. You are playing as a villain in the Overlord games. Killing baby animals kind of comes with that territory.

[@desgoyomama3274]

@@chrisossu2070 Also, even though we like baby seals, your minions (basically pikmin for anybody who hasn't played the Overlord games) hate them and think they're evil, because seals eat fish and your minions think fish are waaaaaay cuter than the seals.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

i loved those Overlord games. the first 2 at least. i refuse to touch castle defense games.

[@desgoyomama3274]

@@miguelnewmexico8641 First two? Ha ha, you make it sound like there were more than two. _There were only ever two._

[@michaelgjrjvebs]

That moral sounds like something new blizzard would think is super rad

[@Trynt33]

"That's going in the latest WoW expansion!"

[@MrBangBat]

I watched supergreatfriend's full playthrough of the Medium. The game later on in particular has really, really badly designed instant death sequences. And as others have mentioned, the game wants you to sympathize with a child molester because a girl he liked died when he was a child and so a part of him is stuck in his childhood. For me, the ending came across as "We have no idea how to write ourselves out of this terrible situation in a satisfying way, so we'll force you to be complicit in murdering a rape survivor and call it 'art.'"

[@travissloan9411]

So Konami is giving the Silent Hill IP to random lower-tier studios again? Did they learn nothing from Downcoming?

[@zanemcdonald6475]

Foolish of you to assume they did

[@GIZMONDO987]

I mean, they did: With the others it was a thing of being cheap and giving relatively-unknown studios fuck-all budget or time to make the games. With this they're giving a relatively known studio the IP, and probably a decent budget. Funniest thing is this is probably only happening cuz it seems like Akira Yamaoka like Bloober Team so y'all gotta thank that member of Team Silent for it ig.

[@TylerFederico]

It’s foolish of you to think Konami isn’t doing this because it will be cheap lol

[@conelybiscuit4985]

here's hoping Bloober ends up like Vatra and Hijinx

[@WTFisTingispingis]

They _do not_ care.

[@simondelasheras8465]

The funny thing is that the video that Pat mentions ''How the Layers of fear devs copy/pasted their way in to notoriety'' is made by the same person who wrote those tweets descriving the story of The Medium that Woolie was reading on stream. His name is ''bobvids''.

[@lbcyber]

Bobvids is great and his videos dunking on Cinemasins are especially good

[@alexanderfreeman3406]

I seriously can’t comprehend people who act like Cinema Sins is some travesty against film. They’re a joke channel who’ve always said their videos are just entertainment that’s not meant to be taken seriously, and their “sins” mean literally nothing. It’s fine to not like their videos. I sure don’t. But wasting your life “debunking” videos that are deliberately flippant and nonsensical is the epitome of rabid autism.

[@yarution367]

@@alexanderfreeman3406 its all people who weren't clued into them being jokes and had their favorite movie trashed.

[@StarlessAH]

@@alexanderfreeman3406 I don't know man, joke's are meant to be funny. Cinema Sins isn't a travesty against film, it's a travesty against comedy.

[@alexanderfreeman3406]

@@StarlessAH Again, that’s fine. But trying to “debunk” bad comedy is astoundingly moronic.

[@zeroanonymity9736]

What I love is that Woolie and Pat are both right. Woolie saying the trauma demon gets passed on from the victimizer to the victem is half right. The rapist that victimized the character who's trauma is the main villain ALSO has a trauma demon because HE was raped as a kid too. So the message distilled to its base is "Trauma begats trauma", which could be an interesting take but it's handled in the worst possible way.

[@manjackson2772]

More like "trauma makes you a problem for everyone else. fuck you for being such a burden"

[@Happymasks]

@@manjackson2772 Sounds like a very bad part of the Japanese culture.

[@AceKuper]

@@Happymasks Yeah, truly that pesky Japanese culture that, caused this fully POLISH developer team to write such a thing.

[@manjackson2772]

@@AceKuper From what I understand it's an unfortunately common attitude in Poland. Not entirely surprising, considering the government they voted in.

[@Guciom]

@@manjackson2772 Polish person here. The fuck are you talking about? Last Time I check victim blaming is a thing that happens all over the world.

[@music79075]

The game has the logic that schools have with fights "It takes two now what did you do to encourage x to body slam you?"

[@LinkinMark1994]

I couldn't fucking stand that shit

[@arempy5836]

"It takes two to lie, Marge. One to lie and one to listen"

[@TheOdinsLance]

I can see what they were going for with The Medium. The idea that abuse victims often become abusers themselves is very real, but the message is wrapped up in a mediocre game that tried too hard to be edgy.

[@pickledparsleyparty]

Yeah I didn't play it (and neither did these guys), but their description of the ending doesn't sound definitely immoral. Failure to overcome trauma often seems to make monsters. It doesn't sound like the game is saying a therapist should euthanize a patient in the first session, or anything. Overcoming trauma is extremely important. "You could descend into evil, yourself" is one reason why.

[@quinnkaplan172]

@@pickledparsleyparty yeah I would agree except the reason they are saying it's immoral is that it says the only way to overcome said trauma is death which makes the entire metaphor either break down and cease making sense or is simply horrific and immoral.

[@pickledparsleyparty]

@@quinnkaplan172 Horrific is the key. It's a horror story. Its whole purpose is pointing out a part of life that we don't enjoy thinking about.

[@GermanKinsmen]

​@@pickledparsleyparty But they didn't "descend into evil". That's the whole crux of the story- as soon as they were raped a traumatized by it, they were already fucked by no fault of their own. There was nothing they could've done to "get out of it" by the game's own logic. If you get raped, you're already a lost cause by this lore's logic.

[@kaygeo]

Woolie calling out God of War III for that one fucked up moment remains my favorite thing ever.

[@fennrir9809]

If you wanna tell a morally-grey story, you need to show most (if not all) sides of the spectrum. If you wanna tell a story about accountability (once the victim becomes perpetrator), you need to handle the subject with a LOT of care, while also having inputs from professionals and realistic source material. It is irresponsible to simplify a game with such a delicate premise (trauma as a monster metaphor) without ACTUALLY exploring the issue. Developers, content creators and story-tellers sometimes want to shine the light on "untouchable" situations, but I would honestly expect them to research about it and question themselves "what is it that I want to say, and how should I say it", instead of... well... whatever Medium's ending is

[@astrobstrd]

As someone who follows bobvids and saw his genuine disdain at the entire 'message' of The Medium, this clip is incredibly gratifying to listen to

[@bleack8701]

God of war moment was fucked up, but he's a psycho in that game. That's the context for why he's doing fucked up things. It's not a good moment, but int the context of this guy is a monster it makes sense because he's just a psycho.

[@quincallahan6323]

"I for one am pro using slaves as doorstops and don't see the big deal"

[@skeletalmesh9872]

3:33 Zangief decides to take Pat's place at the throne by force

[@nexusgiga]

It’s his birthright

[@boanoah6362]

Fun Fact: Bloober has made another game with basically this exact same message in the Blair Witch... prepare for the SH2 remake to end with James blowing his brains out because his trauma is too dangerous.

[@GuiltyKit]

I was literally about to play The Medium earlier since it's free on one of the content platforms. Don't even want to say which one. And for Reasons, I'm actually massively grateful that this popped up across my feed first. I just can't even believe no one stood up and went "hey everyone this is a -really- stupid idea". As for the God of War stuff, it's... man. I just. The Poseidon Princess was extra sketchy because in that same sequence, you find an "I'm sorry for beating you, I wasn't actually angry at -you- baby, you're the only light of my life" letter written to Topless Tits McGee, who by the way is Poseidon's abducted rape slave. And then after getting yanked around by Kratos for a while (complete with bouncy boob physics), begging for her life, etc, she gets chucked into a cruel and unusual demise. And it's like. Who was that for? Hey, if people have dark fantasies, whatever! But. Was that really necessary? Did it add anything other than jerkoff fuel for some random dev?

[@senorsnout4417]

Personally, I took it as a (admittedly kinda gratuitous) way of highlighting just how selfish and horrible the Greek gods are, and then underscoring that by showing that Kratos is no better, and that his quest for vengeance is misguided, needlessly destructive, and that any justification he could have had behind his crusade is long gone. He's just a monster at this point, caring only about his quest for revenege, even as the world is dying because of his actions.

[@ChaosWolfRider]

@@senorsnout4417 See, but that would work better if in the same game Kratos didn't decide that a random girl he meets and interacts with for... what, 10 minutes? Is his new daughter, and will throw away his entire quest to protect her... even as SHE is begging him to go through with it and kill her to kill Zeus. If Kratos had continued on with his hate-fueled agenda, even against a pleading child, not only would that have been more in line, and more interesting (if even MORE fucked up), it actually feels like it would've fit in more with classic Greek tales, which a ton of had absolutely tragic endings with fallen heroes.

[@MegaPieru3000]

Bloober Team's best game is Observer, which Pat also did a full playthrough of the game. I can't really recommend the others. Haven't played Medium yet though.

[@ViperJoe]

Yeah, Observer was fantastic.

[@IshiiShiro0711]

Observer have an in game document read that made me feel like throwing up The endings were kinda meh tho The two endings feels the same

[@Dante45p]

As someone who read the elfen lied manga it was 100000% the writers fetish

[@jskull2024]

I remember everyone and their mother hyping up Elfen Lied as this classic masterpiece with biblical allegories or whatever, basically how people talk about Eva but way more pretentious. Finding out Elfen Lied was just made by a gore fetishist is really funny because it just makes everyone that hyped it up either really weird or really dumb lol

[@jskull2024]

i like eva btw i just wanted to compare the way people talked about both series

[@canaricassius8323]

Elfen Lied is something that could have been really amazing if it had an editor that went "Hey, maybe don't do this weird shit at this moment. Its fucking weird." I have such a divisive relationship with the whole story. On one side i genuinely think certain parts of it are amazing. Lucy as a character is really interesting, and her relationship and guilt with the MC is fascinating. The actual powers and fights are super fun and creative. It's essentially "What if a normal army had to find and fight a Stand user" and seeing that play out is amazing. On the other hand, while i don't mind gore (in fact i often find it quite entertaining in things like Mortal Kombat), the way a lot of the gore is framed is just weird. I feel you can tell when something is gory for the sake of showing just how bad a situation is or because its cool, as opposed to when its done because someone is really obsessed with it. It makes it uncomfortable in a way that pulls you out of the story instead of getting you invested.

[@lordxmugen]

As soon as the secretary had her head twisted off ( I got pizza guys!) and then the girl goes to the MCs house, becomes an infant and then pisses herself on his front doorstep i had to check the fuck out. I dont know how ANYONE can find entertainment out of that sort of thing.

[@canaricassius8323]

@@lordxmugen Because it has so many awesome moments Lucy's whole infant like state is pretty dumb and weird until the part where that part starts getting smarter and developing into its own person unaware of her other self, and the conflict that brings. The violence is dumb until you get to a point where characters who survive being torn apart get prosthetic parts they use in fights. So you have Bionic Commando with a desert eagle vs a Stand user or a psychic using their own prosthetic arm as a makeshift rocket punch. It's a story I wish was just entirely bad because it'd be easier to dismiss it as weird garbage, but instead there's good stuff sprinkled throughout the whole entire thing the genuinely is fascinating to read.

[@Ninjaguiden89]

And now Lynn is doing Parallel Paradise with more melting girls and its great. Really, I love it.

[@EvilPineappl]

"no one is defending this game" Nearly 90% recommended on Steam tho

[@bowrey118]

Keep in mind that many people consider Downpour and Homecoming to be good games.

[@navarroguard7911]

A lot of that is from people who just. Didnt pay attention to anything. Horror fans are really easily pleased

[@bowrey118]

@@navarroguard7911 I can't really blame them with Downpour, it's got the makings of a great horror game, it just falls flat on its writing and creature design. The rest would easily fool the average player into taking it seriously.

[@night1952]

Steam's score system is awful though. Giving a game a thumbs up can either mean "this game is ok" or "this game is a masterpiece"

[@justinl8791]

@@bowrey118 Correction: Homepour & Downcoming.😁

[@chellejohnson9789]

Okay good, I'm not the only one that felt this was fucked way up

[@trevingrayek1671]

Heard about it in a Twitter thread and killed any interest I had in playing it. I’m told their was a similar thing in that Blair Witch game. These devs don’t seem to like people with mental trauma it seems.

[@CheetahsArePrettyCool]

@@trevingrayek1671 same here Blair Witch def. has the same issue, it has a good/bad ending set-up where the good ending involves a traumatized character letting the monster kill them (with the achievement "Break the Cycle") because killing the monster results in taking their place & going on to hurt others

[@trevingrayek1671]

@@CheetahsArePrettyCool Just wow

[@CaptWolfy]

Monster Energy Kojima working on Silent Hill confirmed.

[@TheDapperCat]

I actually have a Silent Hill example of this. Remember when Downpour, to try and get its Pyramid Head surrogate over, had him kill a child on screen? Actual child murder. People forget how blunt and insulting the writing was in those games to the originals they were banking off of. Downpour also had those really cringey memos, like the one about the Orphanage that was killing children in made up medical surgeries, or the prison memos making light of rape, or a parent tricking their autistic child into walking off a pier and drowning. Downpour is filled with these gross attempts to be "mature" and "dark" but not only did they lack they skill on conveying these themes without spelling them out to you in memos, the game has nothing to day about it, it's just edgey shit for edgey sake. Shattered Memories had the same problem, including stuff like finding audio logs of a teenager accidentally dying from autoerotic asphyxiation. Wanting to having mature stuff in those games but not being good writers who are able to convey those with subtlety or tact was an issue in all the Western SH sequels, so in a way Konami picked a developer who makes games that fit right alongside the western SH sequels.

[@tjmauser6954]

I actually enjoyed the performance of Murphy during that part I felt like he did a good job selling the desperation. Although I haven’t seen it in a while so I may be wrong

[@TheDapperCat]

@@tjmauser6954 It's probably the actor's best performance (he's pretty weak overall, either brooding all his lines or yelling like Homer Simpson when he's suppose to be scared) but it's also a scene that doesn't make sense because Murphy has the poem in his memos yet he's trying to remember it off by heart? He literally only just picked the pages up why is he trying to recall the poem instead of reading it? Cos the script says it builds tension.

[@tjmauser6954]

@@TheDapperCat that’s really silly. I guess they could have had him fumbling with his notes trying to find it

[@AlphaVenatusDeus]

Silent Hill:Victim Blaming. Press (X) to Gaslight!

[@chrisguillenart]

Wait, the details they're talking about aren't quite right. That monster is the first "Boss" out of... I think it was three in total. That said, the overall theme... Yeah, they hit that nail on the head and I can't believe I never noticed it when I played it >.>

[@Brave_SJ]

I think the reason people get uppity about critisms of games on moral grounds, is that in the past those arguments have generally ended with, "and that's why these games should be banned." I'm sure Woolie isn't arguing that you shouldn't be able to buy God of War because of the door stop girl, but after years of dealing with pearl clutching moral guardians calling for censorship of gore or sex in games, people's knee-jerk reaction to "this feels kind of gross" becomes "YOU CAN PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!"

[@lkim100]

pretty much.

[@voidshadow]

My thing is I want to ask WHY a person feels more gross by this than other things in the same vein. How can the negative/frightening aspects of humanity ever be depicted/represented/explored artistically without significantly deluding the experience? I feel this just comes down to how well/creative the artists are at invoking the right emotion with the right context, timing, tone, etc.

[@TheBAGman17]

@@voidshadow honestly it's the just the achievement, Kratos always felt like a rampaging lunatic but he never really came across as a sadist serial killer. he'll kill you in a second out of sheer inconvenience but if you didn't obstruct him he would leave you alone. seeing the message "wish I had" just feels out of character even for him because it doesn't line up with his previous actions.

[@Densoro]

It's such a shame that that's derailed the ability to talk about games' themes with any degree of nuance though. 'This story had some unfortunate assumptions and implications, I think writers can iterate on these failings and do better, and maybe extend an olive branch to people who were pushed under the bus by this narrative' =/= 'BAN IT BURN IT AAAAAAAAAAA' There's people shooting up sororities because they think feminists are trying to take over the country, all because a lady made a few KZbin videos saying, 'sometimes people write female characters badly and it breaks the immersion/structural integrity of the story'

[@a.g.r.v.3144]

"in the past"

[@FlameOfUdun96]

The ULTIMATE monkey’s paw scenario, like holy fuck Feel so bad for Silent Hill fans

[@travissloan9411]

I don't know. I think it's a little too quick to pass judgment.

[@Horatio787]

Could've been Quantic Dream? Like they have handfuls of moments like that in every game.

[@li-limandragon9287]

Nothing will change the fact that the Team Silent Games rock and everything besides PT and Shattered Memories has been a pale imitation. Just getting any SH games at all is blessings since it means the franchise can still live on.

[@li-limandragon9287]

@superc37 I was thinking more appearances in Dead By Daylight, that Silent Hill trailer with Pyramid Head was better than half the American games combined. I of course don’t crappy studios mishandling it, but I don’t want SH to be forgotten either.

[@night1952]

The Jurassic World lady is completely pointless because it's just a bunch of animals comboing her for no reason but in Elfen Lied, Lucy ripping the head off an innocent girl indicates the viewer she's evil. I'm not saying Elfen Lied is a masterpiece btw, it's quite trashy and there's points in which violence is just gratuitous.

[@Damar158]

The Jurassic World Lady getting combo'd by dinosaurs is the best description of what happened in that scene I've heard yet

[@li-limandragon9287]

Why people feel so bad for Zara in Jurassic World is that her death were drawn out for the sake of it and makes every other death in franchise look tame in comparison. Why, she’s just a side character who’s ironically more likeable than the real protagonist? Even the whole “Dinosaur don’t discriminate, they’re animals get over it” argument is flawed because the kids whom would be prime appetisers for the Pteranodons but we can’t have the useless kids get killed.

[@level1cleric]

17:19 Crazy Talk deactivates, causing the normal progression of events to occur

[@en4135]

The original God of War games have many cases in which in order to progress, Kratos has to take a defenseless person and put them in a situation that murders them, typically slowly. In the First game he has to drag a soldier trapped into a cave onto a fire pillar to burn him alive in order to open a door. In the second game he drags a gravely wounded argonaut onto a conveyor belt that slowly pushes him into a giant crushing wheel in order to break the mechanism. In the third he both Burns a man alive who is begging for his help and feeds a helpless daughter of poseidon who has spent most of her life in a cage into a gate opening mechanism in order to stop the gate from closing, it slowly crushes her as she begs Kratos to spare her. If I recall properly if you go back the game will then zoom in on her horrifically crushed guts. I am 100% sure I'm forgetting more of these.

[@NightSpire]

Woolie seems 100% focused on violence against women being unacceptable, while also sayin that people who DO enjoy general hyper-violence are inherently messed up people. He's just doing that thing where he claims moral superiority and refuses to engage with ideas to the contrary, like he always does.

[@en4135]

@@NightSpire Bro what are you on about, most of his points this podcast clip were about how people who think Kratos did nothing wrong are lunatics lmao. There's enjoying something and there's fetishizing it, the reason why he locks onto the GoW 3 poseidons daughter thing is that it was torturous and incredibly drawn out and then the game made an edgy joke about it.

[@NightSpire]

@@en4135 I'm not sure that's the case, I understood it more as chat saying that scene wasn't THAT bad and Woolie immediately responding with revulsion. I'm not seeing the part where anyone here implies that Kratos did nothing wrong. Like, his "seek help" is not directed at a strawman, it's directed at people that are (presumably) just not that fazed by the scene. From 15:30 to 21:00 there's nothing referring to an argument regarding Kratos. Hell, the only messages he quotes are "God of War was not a big deal" and "it was funny".

[@en4135]

@@NightSpire My dude he's talking about people who are saying that in reaction to torture porn. This is a conversation Woolie and Pat have had with chat like a dozen times. Even in the context of the scene itself it's something Kratos did not have to do, he goes out of his way to torture a slave girl to death and then the game makes an edgy joke about it implying he wished he got to do it himself. It wasn't "Violence against women bad lol" it's the fact that the game forced you to unnecessarily torture a woman to death for no other reason than to do it. He's pretty clear on his point, random violence just for shock value is fucking weird, torture porn is fucking weird. But even moreso when against super helpless individuals which happens often and is almost always female characters in these situations. If you enjoy watching that girl in GoW 3 or fail to see how fucked up of a scene it is feel free to go away, that's their message there man.

[@aldar8240]

so what you're saying is that if Kratos had brought a large bag of rocks with him to use on gate mechanisms a lot of cruelty could be avoided

[@mootang]

I remember watching Cohh playing through The Medium and when the ending ended with a cliffhanger, I stop caring about it. But yeah, after thinking about it, that message the ending has is pretty fucked.

[@elidasilva5558]

Can confirm, I was on board with the game right until the ending...Man, take a ballon then let the air out, that's what It was

[@CheetahsArePrettyCool]

mostly unrelated but it makes me laugh that the main time I hear anyone remember Jurassic World exists is when they remember how weirdly mean the assistant’s death is the only other notable thing about that movie for me, as an autistic person, is that the little brother was originally written as autistic but then they removed clear reference to it in the script, but kept the rest of his characterization the same, and I don’t think it was a quality issue because me & my friend whose brother is autistic picked up on it quickly, like.. why

[@Revan058]

I actually think that's kinda cool, like. You don't need to spell out his autism, or make a huge issue of it. Just let it...exist. He is what he is. Don't weirdly fetishize it(Looking at you, The Predator), don't make a fuss about it. Normalization is good.

[@CrocvsGator]

This is reminding me of Woolie praising Transistor and forgetting the ending, then Pat played it and summed up the ending as "two people kill themselves to go to heaven". Sidenote: I didn't care for the gameplay of Transistor (but I loved Bastion and Hades), also I'm a suicide attempt survivor, so I am very biased against stories that depict suicide as a "good" thing.

[@chrisossu2070]

It's slightly less grim if you don't view Cloudbank as physical world but instead a virtual one (which is heavily implied by where the final showdown with Royce takes place). So it's not Red killing herself so much as it is her changing servers. Also, the ending isn't about her just wanting to be reunited with the man in the Transistor but her realizing that, while she now has the power to reshape Cloudbank into whatever she wants, there's no one left. A world without people, as the game's story seems to be suggesting, is ultimately pointless, so she decides to go to where everyone else went, the Country.

[@Judgement_Kazzy]

The only morally confusing thing in Hades is how much it makes me like Sisyphus, because boy was he not nearly as nice of a guy in life.

[@KeroKaminaX]

i think transistor atleast handled the subject alot better than medium did, but that's not a high bar.

[@Dante45p]

Wooliie forgets a major detail of stories he likes all the time like he claims Funny Valentine is the real hero and forgot his plan is to steal of the world's wealth and resources so America and America alone can it leaving the rest of the people to suffer and die which is why two non-americans fight him

[@DilTinman]

@@Dante45p Johnny was from Kentucky, wasn't he?

[@akramirez]

I couldn't have imagined it was this fucking bad, holy shit

[@calculon000]

9:21 I love how hard Woolie had to work to not burst out laughing here

[@SabbyNeko]

Man, this story could actually work. All you'd need to do is make the choice of killing the victims horrific but argueably necessary, like killing everyone in a lab to stop a world ending outbreak. Imagine you made that soul damaging decision to end these victims misery and then realize that the damage you did to yourself in the process gave the evil a life boat.

[@zerofang009]

Doesn't sound like a silent hill game though. Atleast in my opinion. Sounds like a good set up for a supernatural murder mystery with multiple endings. Call it Murdered: Monsters in My Head (Sequel to Murdered:Soul Suspect)

[@Happymasks]

@@zerofang009 The Medium isn't a Silent Hill game, it's just that the people who made it are working on the supposedly new Silent Hill. Which has people justifiably worried.

[@GreekJR2]

@@Happymasks they marketed it like one and the other world gimmick is incredibly inspired by silent hill

[@zerofang009]

@@Happymasks yeah I just did some quick research on it. Got some positive reviews but seems like just a walk through. Unfortunate. I can't remember the last game I played that had a good save them/end them mechanic.

[@alephnole7009]

This happens in the end of Metal gear solid 5. Your forced to manually kill your own defenceless allies to stop an outbreak.

[@TealWolf26]

So all they had was the message and the message was evil. Is this just Satan trolling Woolie, trying to prove that he's real?

[@SnaKeMuHo]

holy shit Pat predicted Silent Hill: Ascension 14:58

[@Fattybobatty1224]

Old Yellering trauma survivors. What the actual f

[@paragonrobbie9270]

As someone who was diagnosed with PTSD at a young age and now live with clinical depression influenced by it, I desperately want to throttle whoever wrote The Medium's ending.

[@Lonequacker]

See when I read the wiki article it didn't seem like it was that bad with how they worded it. Then getting more details along with learning you pop an achievement named "Might as well" is fucking crazy. But jeez I tried to watch the ending myself and it's so fucking slow and boring I stopped halfway through the 20 minute cutscene. The idea of the 2 worlds playing at the same time in the cutscene is interesting enough one or two times but in reality they're just having the same scene play twice with a swapped character model and other models being cut out so it looks like she's not talking to anyone. The novelty wore off in 10 minutes.

[@kovulion7777]

9:20 for Woolie's reaction

[@opossum_elysium]

I don't think that Yakuza 0 example (16:50) completely fits with what they're talking about. Like, yeah, it's fucked up he kills a random innocent person for no reason, but it's not weird in the context of the game. The character's a horrible villain, of course he'd do that, it's a thing a horrible villain does. The Jurassic World example is way more fitting, since that completely random lady gets so brutally and specifically killed, it feels like the dinosaurs have a vendetta against her or the filmmakers had a torture fetish.

[@Gustavozxd13]

I'm still trying to find the "eh might as well" achievement. Not on Steam or PS4 lists of achievements or anyone talking about it.

[@zenanarchist]

It's actually "Can't always save everyone" - which is even more messed up.

[@GundiMike]

The demons are a metaphor for demons.

[@nexusgiga]

I feel like hatred’s achievements are just as tasteless. “Feminist: kill 100 men” “misogynist; kill 100 women”

[@undecidedmajor1664]

The entire game is tasteless. That was kind of the point.

[@nexusgiga]

@@undecidedmajor1664 fair enough.

[@yoshimasterleader]

Hatred goes out of way to be edgy and offensive, so it writes itself contention of being gross or uncomfortable. At most it feels cringeworthy or juvenile. Call of Juarez and God of War wants to be cool, so when they do tasteless shit it feels worse.

[@just_matt214]

Do you get "True Equality" if you do both of them?

[@SvarogAristaeusAllen]

Yeah but that's hatred's entire gimmick. Hatred is by design a tasteless outrage generator that draws in exactly the crowd you imagine and gets them to look past the fact that it's a mediocre-to-shitty game because it makes the people they don't like angry. And you best believe it worked.

[@NaughtaNoob]

To devil's advocate the God of War 3 scene with Neptune's daughter. It seemed like the whole game was showing how evil Kratos was becoming in his blind rage trying to kill Zeus. Every time he killed a god, whatever that god controlled would immediately grow out of control and destroy nearby settlements (e.g. Poseidon cause everywhere in view to flood), and on top of it all, there was a plot with Pandora at the end trying to humanize him with the first scene between the two that tried to do so have him carrying the disembodied head of Helios, using it as a flashlight. I would be surprised if they didn't want you to feel bad for what you were doing in that game.

[@darkraioxxx]

Do you really think Woolie doesn't underdrand that? They could have done anything else to show Kratos' lust for revenge. She could have been a boss that refused to open a passage for Kratos that then forced him to kill her.

[@riastradh]

@@darkraioxxx yeah but that doesn’t seem anywhere near as effective or black and white evil. The point is kratos is a scumbag. That just sounds like your average hero shit

[@supersayan1962]

@@darkraioxxx no i don't think so lol, woolie didn't Even played the games

[@Dragonsmana]

Pat once remembered the plot of God of War 3 as Kratos basically yelling at Zeus to stop fucking up the Earth and Zeus yelling him back it was his fault. Like...? That kinda thing is absolutely near anywhere of the plot lmao. Its not that their memories are bad, it is that they are never even made in the first place so they just pull random crap together to justify their viewpoints.

[@riastradh]

@@Dragonsmana they have a bad habit of misremembering, not understanding and doubling down all in the same breath

[@jontrain8986]

I honestly thought this was about that bad crime drama show Medium for a minute. Yeesh

[@OnionTaylorJoy]

And that is why I dread Bloober making a Silent Hill game.

[@Gman2486]

This one is going to make rounds again.

[@blindmessiah255]

Victim Shooting is the real meta tactic for life

[@SteelBallRun1890]

I've said this before in the subreddit but Woolie, you're the only one who's weird about these topics. Woolie, when people say it's not a big deal, it doesn't fking mean they think that's some good thing. Of course, Kratos crushing that girl into the gears is messed up, people know that, they just don't act like some Catholic mom about it and go on a 10 minute rant about why that's wrong. They understand the intent (Kratos bad) and move on. This is the same crap with the Yakuza problem, people just see the AraQ3 sidequest as a goofy but heartwarming story, and you weirdly get hangups because the dad became a videogame enemy and pulled out a gun and he should go to jail. "If you don't get bothered by this it means you're a weirdo psycho" really rubbed me the wrong way. It's the same way some pearl clutching people on Twitter look at furries or lolicons, as absolutely weird as those two are, and immediately label them as actual real pedos or animal tossers. If that was the case then Plague is a shoein for both, seeing as he draws short stacked furries lotta the time. (Heck, he drew one this week!) Pat says talking about it is interesting but it never comes off that way, a lot of the time it just seems like you're looking for a podium to be judgmental af. Woolie should relate to this more, he's the guy who got sick of religion because his family was super judgey about things like videogames corrupting his mind or making him closer to the "debal".

[@Dragon4234]

Woolie has some baggage he brings in to all of this stuff, 13 Sentinels seemed to bring out a lot of it. It’s apart of the WoolieVs brand at this point.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Yeah I gave this video a dislike because eventhough I was on board for the first half the second half was Woolie and Pat shiting the bed with their whining

[@Adser261]

I remember doing an eyeroll at that scene in GoW 3, but it was nothing compared to my eyeroll with the entire Pandora subplot. Kratos is a murderhobo, he kills EVERYTHING during all games he is on, so a last minute attempt to make me feel bad when the tone of the game has been clearly defined from the start felt really dumb. I am honestly surprised that it was such a "shocking" event for people, did they forgot that you are killing the entire planet with your god massacre? It's like playing Pokemon and stopping after each battle in shock about how dare you force slaves into fighting. Yeah, Pokemon are smart enough that capturing them would be considered slavery, and you do get them into fights without their consent, but it is not real life, it is not an issue in the setting and getting so upset about a basic game mechanic is absurd. There is also the Elfen Lied conversation they had later, about detailed gore and how fucked up it is: 1) Aren't they a fan of Berserk, a series known for its really detailed and explicit gore? 2) That level of gore can be shocking to people new to it, but it is not rare in the medium. There are a LOT of manga and comics that use that level of gore with no issue, and people who read them are not murderous monsters that get off the idea of killing, they are just not bothered by it. There are people who are bothered by the violence show on things like the MCU, because it is too much for them, and it is wrong to go around shooting hordes of people or aliens or whatever. That doesn't mean that everyone who has ever seen one of those movies would be perfectly ok with killing like that in real life.

[@Lakross101]

The idea that the protagonist has to be good or likeable or do things we want is like??? Sorry if there are no good guys. I love when games stick to hey this dood is evil and we're gonna keep him evil. There's no redemption arc or likeable shit. Even in 4, it's relatable that as an old man... ehhhh I'm kinda sick of destroying everything lemme chill in my cottage.

[@Dragonsmana]

Woolie is the type of person to champion the Point of View gun from Hitchiker but then shoot you if you so much as point it in his general direction. He would rather you listen to his multiple paragraph speech on how he got to an obviously incorrect conclusion. For as much as Woolie talks about "context and tone" he sure is willing to completely (and likely on purpose) ignore a lot of the context and tone of not only God Of War 3, but the entire set of 5 games that takes place in. When it comes to the trophy thing, if you look at the trophies in not only 3 itself, but also the Remastered PS2 (and PSP) games there is TONS of jokey trophy titles. Showing that despite the overall serious tone the people behind it are willing to have some fun with whats going on. God of War 3 has a challenge with the title being a reference to Bebe's Kids ffs. Tophies called Are you Horny to Win? (minotaur Horns), Hooker (Kill Hades), among others. God of War 2 has a trophy that is "Ya Know the Germans make good stuff (Collect all Uber chests), a god damn Shamwow reference. The only trophy I ever actually somewhat agree on the controversy was the "Bros before Foes" one, but only the original title being a bit tasteless, as it was called Bros before Hoes. Though once again, Woolie is giving the completely wrong context. That trophy pops after a double Fury boss fight in which they CAPTURE KRATOS and he is saved by the Furies son, it wasn't after he "stomped the shit out of them". He ended up on the loosing end and had to be saved, and the joke was the Son saving Kratos rather than helping the Furies. Though also gotta be real, you have to look back on this particular controversy with a raised eyebrow considering it was started by Adam Sessler, a known transphobic asshole. Clearly he never gave a fuck about how other people feel and was just looking for attention.

[@Sninehhh]

At this point, Woolie lighting up like a Christmas tree upon hearing about the Call of Juarez achievement doesn't surprise me one bit.

[@tylerritchie2736]

I don't know how many amazing woolie expressions listening to the podcast.

[@jollykami]

The Medium was one of the fastest refunds I've ever done. I was hyped because I loved Layers of fear 1 and 2, and even blair witch.

[@lexofexcel886]

I will say that Awano straight up murdering his dance partner because he's mad and she's in line of sight is pretty hamfisted in getting the point across that he's a villain.

[@breaksystembse]

I'll never get over when that (now gone) Debate dude was trying to promote and defend "ryona" in the Tomb Raider reboot and a woman in his family admitted to be an gang r*pe victim after they feuded on FB...

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

I don't give a shit about The Medium so I looked it up on Wikipedia and it says the ending is ambiguous due to the main character identifying the request as fucked up and considering killing herself instead because both her and the child are conduits for the supernatural monster. Considering depiction doesn't equal endorsement I'm not seeing the problem with a psychological horror game having a fucked up downer ending. James doesn't stop Angela in Silent Hill 2 either despite knowing what she's tried to do and is probably going to do again. Some times horror media is deliberately trying to make you feel disgust and anguish. And Kratos was clearly a villain protagonist after the events of God of War 1. It went from clearly targeted vengeance driven by remorse to a rage spiral of wanting his toys back. In a AAA game development context, some artistic license is going to be compromised for pure gameplay stuff (especially considering God of War 1 was pretty firmly resolved so sequels even existing are compromising that), so idiosyncrasies will emerge from that which I'm more willing to concede are just unthinkingly fucked up. But especially in God of War 3 Kratos' actions are even more brutal and sadistic than they've ever been. And the game ends with him looking out at the fucking apocalypse he's caused by killing the Gods. That doesn't seem like a story endorsing its character's behavior. I don't understand why people who consume media for a living will dig in for a myopic and inflexible interpretation of that media. Is it just that the consistently weird and retroactively proven to be caused by fucked up attitudes content of David Cage games validates this kind of uncharitable stance for all media? That's why Rise is an exhibitionist, Yukiko is a decadent bimbo, Chie is a sociopathic manipulator, Yosuke is a nihilist and Namatame is the killer because that's what their Shadows communicate when taken purely at face value?

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

Naoto is trans and Kanji is gay. (i might need to point out i don't actually think that)

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

@@miguelnewmexico8641 That's what I was alluding to by pointing out the logic falling apart when applied to any other Shadow.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

I 100% came into this video expecting Pat Crazy Talk for a game I haven't played (and neither has Woolie) and I'm glad to see I got it with a side order of Woolie whinging

[@senorsnout4417]

I love how for GoW 3, a game where Kratos is trying to brutally murder all of the gods, ends up causing the apocalypse, rips a man's head off with his bare hands while the man is still alive (and then proceeds to use his head as a *flashlight* for the rest of the game), and kills the final boss with such sadistic brutality that by the end of it the screen is completely covered in blood, but Kratos using a woman as a tool in a puzzle and leaving her to die is what's gross and too far. Like, yeah, it's fucked up. That's actually, literally the point. Kratos is a monster. The series has never been subtle about this. It has never tried to hide that. Hell, the entire plot of 4 is about how Kratos is trying to be better for his son, and how they have no real relationship because Kratos has kept his distance, to keep him safe from the furious, murderous force of nature he is, but trying to overcome it because he loves Atreus and wants to be a good father for him. The *overall theme of the franchise* is Kratos being a horrible person, so it's weird that this is the "ew too much" point. Like, horrible people aren't allowed to be horrible people, or do horrible things.

[@foji8142]

I think the point is more that after doing something monstrous with the woman the developer gives you an achievement which amounts to “poggers!”

[@sarafontanini7051]

there's a REASON God of War 3 ends with kratos killing himself.

[@senorsnout4417]

@@foji8142 Isn't it a thing that the devs themselves don't really have much input with the achievements? Especially back when GoW3 came out? I don't know if it's fair to blame the developers when they might not have even put the achievement in to begin with and it was someone else's fault.

[@That1GuyMalikah]

Crazy that blooper actually made a good silent hill 2 remake hearing about this game.😂

[@mightquinnable]

GOW3 bit is still funny to me man. It’s supposed to be fucked. But that the joy of watching kills in a horror movie

[@GrayD_Fox]

Man I was super confused on what Woolie was talking about with the first boss in NMH. I stood there at the sink trying to remeber when Travis and Death metal were beating on women.

[@TheHero346]

I think he meant NMH2 with Nathan Copeland

[@GrayD_Fox]

@@TheHero346he absolutely was

[@syrushbluhr]

You know what? I think that someone in team or the writers was inspired by The Grudge series and think, "yeh we can show this more meaningful and explain the ghost/monsters side when they cannot stop hurting others because they were hurt badly when they die..... I will be soo cool" XD goddamit

[@globox123456789]

I see Silent Hill is in good hands. :) :(

[@Darthwin1]

Kratos was pretty much the revenge embodiment dialed up to twelve. I am pretty in his head most people were in two categories the person he wanted to kill and the people in his way toward that objective.

[@JillLulamoon]

Bloober Team output has seemed pretty mediocre to me. I really didn't like Layers of Fear, the sequel seems even worse, Blair Witch i didn't hear much positive about from people I trust so I didn't buy it, and The Medium sounds horrible lol. I have heard Observer is pretty decent though. I'm interested in trying that one. But yeah, them being in charge of Silent Hill doesn't fill me with excitement to say the least.

[@li-limandragon9287]

Blair Witch’s twist is so stupid it’s almost beautiful in its shittiness.

[@harrisonlichtenberg3162]

Judas Priest. They might as well have named that Juarez achiement "Cleaning up the Neighborhood"

[@halocrafter300]

12:05 Digging into my trophy list for the original GoW 3- “I didn’t do it… But I wish I did! - Kill the Poseidon Princess”

[@Zmanwarrior]

Was Pat affectionately holding up Gief's jowls for a second there?

[@quincallahan6323]

I remember Deus Ex: Human Revolution had the assisted-suicide achievement that I thought hurt the game. Not because I am super against what is a very nuanced topic but because, in having an achievement, it incentivizes some weird, gamey thinking about a serious subject that one would think a game like that wants you to really think about.

[@manticorephoenix]

Well, that’s certainly one way to present a different point of view

[@YeTheGOATNoCap]

The Medium destroyed my laptop's performance whenever it does the split screen segments. From 90 fos to 19 fps on high settings. I have to play on low for 60nfps but then it's all blurry and unplayable.

[@YeTheGOATNoCap]

I probably played 2 hours before I stopped.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

cool.

[@El_Andru]

Has any of these guys read CSM before it gets out of proportion cool?

[@larrymeadows7535]

I also remember when Woolie tried to make Reggie shoot a child but that was another timeline

[@panos3320]

The idea behing Kratos using Poseidon's princess as a door stopper , is that Kratos is a socicopathic monster, with no regard for the lives of regular humans. Thats it... It's a reoccuring thing in the original trilogy. In GOW1 he burns alive a caged soldier as sacrifice in a puzzle. In gow2 he jams some gears with the body of a wounded soldier. I guess it made a bigger impression in 3 because its a woman? I can kinda get the shock. Sometimes i go back to the GOW series for a playthrough and im kinda shocked at the thing i used to love when i was younger. It takes some time to settle back in :p It would be funny if they did something similar in gow 2018. "See son, i know that you are shocked after seeing your first death, but this dude is still alive. Go ahead and pass this noose around his head and throw him of that edge, as he falls and struggles, the force will open the door for us to go through. But don't kill gods! There are consequences to killing gods!" Bros before foes, i can see the issue when you are a big company and cant have swearing over a limit in your games, but i played the game unpatched just to get the og trophy :D

[@EbonMaster]

This. I feel like he has kinda selective memory when it comes to that kinda stuff. Maybe it did come down to the fact that the innocent person this time was a woman and that made it uncomfortable enough to stick with him.