World of Warcraft's New Player Paradox

[@dragonriderabens9761]

everyone in the comments is talking about how the game is designed meanwhile, I'm over here thinking about how the community treats new players poorly, expecting people to know what to do and then being toxic to new players who don't this is especially an issue for tanking and healing roles

[@dess3597]

Community doesn't care about players in general. Doesn't matter if they are new or not.

[@Demonsouls1993]

@@dess3597 thats why theres a massive lack of tanks and healers

[@deliriumzer0]

These two things absolutely go hand in hand, sadly. :(

[@dh8657]

wah wah

[@Bazzlieo]

And then they complain about tank/healer shortages

[@erentheca]

Out-leveling previous expansions while timewalking is my biggest gripe. I came back to a lvl 35 rogue after not playing for about 8 years and was really enjoying timewalking through Warlords of Draenor. I had progressed on my garrison, had finished the first zone, and was highly invested in seeing how the story would play out over the rest of the zones... and then I hit 50, all the mobs and quests became low-level gray and practically inaccessible. There was no reason for Blizzard to do this. If I wanted to keep questing through 70 in WOD, what is the harm in letting me do that? Why did I need to be forced into Shadowlands content?

[@MattGiuca]

Can't you keep playing WoD after you hit the level cap, you just don't get XP? (Legitimate question, I have not played.)

[@Stormy_Fairweather]

i came back after not playing for 16 years, and i found it absolutely fucking impossible to play through the lore to get caught up on the story.

[@brad4058]

Why play through the lore? There's like hundreds of youtube videos on what's going on in WoW's lore.

[@Stormy_Fairweather]

@@brad4058 do you play video games to watch videos of other people playing them?

[@wowwar2]

@@brad4058 because people like to learn about the world and the characters in the game and not have to read about it outside of the game

[@chubby0815]

@@Stormy_Fairweather you know, wow is still considered an RPG even if seemingly 90% of the active community has forgotten that.

[@EpicCrust]

I came back after 12 years. Couldn’t give a hoot about the lore. Loving it

[@Pengalen]

This was several years ago, but I was just coming back to try WoW again, and I was about 2/3 through MoP. I had some quest where prince blondie was flitting about with angel wings and I was meeting him to do stuff (as I recall from the previous time I had played). He was no longer there, the building on the southeast corner of Pandaria where my map said relevant questgivers were was not there, nor the questgivers. I attempted to find the timewalker in the main building in the vale of blossoms (per instructions from the internet). I think one npc was there and didn't provide the option, and the other one just wasn't there. I sought assistance from a GM, and was basically told I needed to finish the next expansion to somehow come back and fix things. I had a similar problem turning in a completed quest in Zul'Gurub. I could no longer access the dungeon because it had been raised to some higher level cap. It might be better now, that they've more centralized time-walking, but I dropped those quests with the expectation of never being able to complete them. The one with Anduin was actually very central to the story moving forward, so I've subsequently completely lost track of (and stopped caring about) any notion of the storyline. I cancelled my membership a few months ago.

[@Az00069]

I wish we had an option to play retail on classic graphics settings. I know it sounds silly but that's a big part of the reason a lot of classic players don't like retail.

[@isaacfaith9369]

I agree, I used to main Tauren because they look big and strong, but now they look like goofy Disney characters. Another example, WoW Dragons used to look mystical and absolutely fierce. In Dragonflight they look like goofy Disney characters. See where I'm going? New graphics make everything look too smooth and cuddly, it is not the style Warcraft was made in.

[@keblin86]

@@isaacfaith9369 Yup! I hate the new char designs. Always said it looks like Disney too.

[@Az00069]

The old undead look wayyyy cooler. They don't even look creepy in the current version. Player portrait and all classic looked better.

[@mrjermz5406]

As a returning player of 5+ years away, I have loved a lot of the new so far. To be fair I have mostly been doing the unlimited Timewalking dungeons since returning a few weeks ago. Pros: -Accessibility through myriad ways to timewalk, group, solo, etc. Never been more ways to engage with the game. -Combat gameplay is outstanding and feels great on every character I've tried. -Other systems have been improved (movement, flight, banking, etc.). The gear boosts for my characters that gave me a started spec has made it extremely easy to pick up where I left off with all of my characters. Leveling speed is great for getting my entire roster up to speed quickly. Most systems have been streamlined to make it easy to pick up the new expansion, such as automatically getting War Within gathering skills when you interact with the first node. Grouping is easy and there are tons of people to play with now that the server sharding has matured. Cons: -Leveling is too fast to learn your class and/or experience the zones. -Questing feels pointless with the amount of XP given for other activities -Professions don't feel approachable (haven't really started with them yet) The Leveling speed is too fast to learn a character. New abilities are gained faster than you can get used to them. I'm lucky in that I was pretty competent with most of my characters but have seen it impact others who are starting new ones. Leveling speed in the expansion levels is extremely fast. I'd like to grind through at least the first character to do the campaign. Instead I was able to hit level 80 in a few hours of Timewalking dungeons. This could be due to the expansion buffs but it was still a bit of a shock that I could get level 80 without even going to the new zones. I could say more but tried to be brief. :)

[@wowwar2]

The main thing that has kept me from playing the game is not being able to properly play through the old content It sucks that I can't do any old raids at all until I am at a level where I can solo it with no challenge to one-shot everything

[@questcore636]

i played tera online a lot while it existed, and they had 3 versions of every raid and dungeon, solo, normal, and heroic, if you wanted to solo everything, you could

[@NorthernSpoon]

I have tried to get in to WoW retail a few times in the past but always gave up as i jsve been lost story wise. Currrently on the classic anniversary server and having a blast. I think retail need to have a dedicated quest chain for new players that takes you through the story with cut scense and maybe a few follower dungeons and raids taking you to the stsrt of the latest expansion so new players can understand whats going on lore wise.

[@morrowoblivion13]

I played wow as a free trial person. after i got done with the tutorial island with the ogers summoning an undead dragon. i was sent to stormwind and suddenly i received a quest from wraithon telling me about the dragon isles and i was like huh? i thought the dragonflight expansion would be locked to someone who is not a sub or paid for the expansion or the person has to be at least lv 30. but nope i could go to the dragon isles for the dragonflight expansion at lv 10 and not experience older content(because idk where to go to get to them). But as a lotro player(my captain is lv 131). in order for you go to go to the latest content/expansion you must follow the epic(main story quests) like going through the actual books. fellowship of the ring, the two towers, return of the king in that order as you lv up.

[@cristhianmlr]

Ogers, Wraithon

[@morrowoblivion13]

@cristhianmlr Sorry for my spelling/grammar 😢

[@XAn0nymousX0]

Dragonflight is not the new expansion. The War Within is. Dragonflight is now where everyone is pushed to as a new character. In dragonflight new characters were pushed into Battle for Azeroth.

[@morrowoblivion13]

@@XAn0nymousX0 thank you for correcting me 😎.

[@Edwin-iw8gb]

​​@@cristhianmlrIt's Ogre's, Wrathion You're correcting someone and you didn't even get it right yourself

[@danielmata610]

New players??? Nahhh. WoW hates ALL players.

[@Briansgate]

seems like it.

[@roujin518]

WoW has hated all players that aren't part of the top 5%

[@adamzandarski8933]

As time went on and especially after the Activision purchase with blizzard abandoned, it’s RPG fan base in order to attract gamers. It started first focusing exclusively on max level content, and beyond that on the really cutting edge content., and the kitty table hand me down to the casual player base just to make sure they stick around. And a lot of us just wanted any and we’re already heavily invested in this one so we did stick around for a long time. Shadowlands Final Fantasy started to become the most popular MMO, so wow, was forced to start designing for casuals again . Came back, but now they’re abandoning that for the hard-core gamers again.

[@NeflewitzInc]

I came back with a guild for dragonflight. I found the questing soso with wonky scaling and the sheer amount of work (not gameplay, but busy work) required of you at end game to not respect my time. I don't care for how gear is acquired from raids, dungeons, and reputation grinds (although at least with rep grinds you have a decent idea of how long it will take to get). Oddly enough, I now play on turtle wow and am having a lot of fun leveling up and keeping blacksmithing up to date as I go.

[@Toadiferous]

The problem with Artifact Weapons specifically is that many of their original effects were turned into baseline talents (because narratively we destroyed the artifacts, but a lot of their abilities made for fun class gameplay that people didn't want to lose). This is more of an issue with the whole "borrowed power" systems they started introducing, which thankfully they finally moved away from in Dragonflight and revamped all of the talent trees. So hopefully it's less of an issue for current/future gameplay, but there's no real solid solution for the older expacs. The way your experience differs from a new player though is that returning players are given the option between doing Exile's Reach/whatever expansion they choose for new players (it was BfA before, now it's DF). Since you're a returning player, they give you the option to do the "old" way, which is just feeling around for quests across random timelines. The reality is that a lot of returning players coming from Wrath or TBC might as well be completely new, like you mentioned with Legion, whose artifact weapons/mission tables/borrowed power system is well known to people who have been playing retail since like WoD, but not to someone who quit during Cata. Realistically I think they need to vet that option a little more and acknowledge if someone hasn't played in 5 years vs. not having played in 10 years. And if people log in and see their OG toon weirdly scaled at a different level, maybe encourage them to try making a new character first and then coming hack to that one. Also I don't think returning players realize that Chromie Time isn't technically mandatory. Chromie Time exists because people didn't like how you couldn't even play through a zone storyline without it becoming worthless experience-wise, which forced jumping to new zones constantly, and then to new entire expansions (out of timeline order, like going from Cata to TBC). So it was introduced to allow everything to scale to whatever you want. The entire point of it is so that you can finish a character's leveling journey basically in one expansion's worth of zones (which is the popular way to do it, as evidenced by how much this kind of system was requested). But when you make a character that doesn't go through Exile's Reach, it definitely makes it SEEM like Chromie Time is the only way to level. So I don't blame you there.

[@StrangeScaryNewEngland]

One of the main things that ruins it for me is this current mindset of all die-hard players: RUSH AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO DO *EVERYTHING!* Nobody takes ANY time now and everybody wants instant gratification. We've entered the age of young, modern-teenaged l337 uber nerds that play based on Ego and being the best and having the best gear and best times and best mounts and best pvp scores and best *everything* . I came back (to Cata) after not playing since 2010ish and I've also noticed that EVERYONE seems to be lvl 85, nobody talks to each other, and all of the max'd players sit in silence in the Trade District and other city hubs, seemingly not doing anything at all but standing there. If you do decide to walk up to and say something to somebody, chances are they'll just ignore you and walk away. Also, don't get me started on AH prices now, even though it works out great for me when I'm selling. I've never seen prices so totally jacked before. Summary: People need to slow down for once, actually read the quest info and lore, and, dare I say, RP. Yes, it also doesn't hurt to RP once in a while in a RP'ing GAME!

[@GamingForImmersion]

Completely agree, and it's not just a WOW problem. So much speed running and meta builds to trivialize content.

[@talesfromtheclassroom]

Because it catered to an aging player base no longer able to dedicate as much time to the game. This resulted in, among other things, convenience features being added at the expense of immersion and accessibility.

[@dragonriderabens9761]

says the aging player blinded by nostalgia half of these convenience features are explicitly designed to cater to these casuals who pretend they are hardcore (or worse, actually think they're all that) instead of accepting they are casual

[@johnthebarbarian]

A lot of those "convenience features" are accessibilty related, like pings, the new UI, bigger bobbers, arachnaphobia mofe

[@questcore636]

which proves that they're not retaining the newer players, they're just retaining aging players only, the younger gamers are trying it, thinks the game is ugly, old, and boring, and they go back to monster hunter or persona games

[@talesfromtheclassroom]

@@johnthebarbarian I didn't mean accessibility in that sense. I meant accessibility as in how easy it is to make sense of.

[@johnthebarbarian]

@@talesfromtheclassroom i mean what are we trying to make sense of here? The expansion is formated like every other expansion since pandaria, the main quests are liniar, lead to one another, and have their own unique icons. The fact that they want you to only do the newest content is pretty much par for the course for every single seasonal game out there. I started playing in dragonflight and had no problem following the story and, if i was so inclined, going back to learn what happened before i started.

[@bretrohde7300]

I concur with your assessment. I’ve been playing WoW since March of 2005, and I do miss the old leveling system, where you grind your painstaking way from 1 to whatever, and max out your professions in a rewarding and useful manner. It’s exactly what you say - the game is now almost exclusively geared toward A) the latest expansion and B) activity at max level. The question really is: is end-game variety and opportunity worth the sacrifice of the leveling experience? It may just be a question that can only be answered subjectively. I will say that I now play with (hardcore) Classic WoW for the leveling experience. Blizzard did succeed in making end-game content interesting, so that, in a way, the game doesn’t really begin until you reach 80 (over whatever the max level is at the time).

[@christopherpatricklizares5306]

Hello! Just saw this pop up on my recommended and thought I'd give it a look. It's kind of cool to get to see what the game is like from other types of players. As I'm someone that mostly focuses on doing endgame content with friends I come from a very biased perspective, so also have a very tinted view on how the game is and ought to be. On the topic of the gold stuff and the economy, they moved people advertising services to a different chat channel to stop them from overloading the regular trade chats. From experience -- as this is server-based -- the trade chat is still active and when I ask around for a crafter to provide a service or a good I usually get DM's for my inquiry relatively quickly. Though of course this is for current-expansion content because of the way the game has been designed to funnel everyone playing towards that. So the economy is definitely still there. Just not a lot of trading necessary for older materials (anything that isn't TWW as of time of posting) as for the most part, people will be getting those older materials for the creation of cosmetics, toys, or other collectibles. For the whole thing about stuff being obsoleted and players being largely driven towards current content, you raise some very good points. Especially when there are issues with scaling or outgrowing the content too quickly. This brings up a game design issue that usually plagues games like these from what I’ve seen, and that’s having to choose what type of player to cater certain parts of the game to. Because if a veteran player invites a new player to the game with the purpose of getting them to play together, it can be a very big pain point if they need to go back and do content a decade old to get something that is still relevant to this day (such as the Artifact Weapons from Legion) if they weren’t obsoleted at the end of the expansion. While this is very good for immersion, and excellent for getting people to see the story of the game and especially FEEL how legendary these weapons are, you end up with content that will feel mandatory to do, and potentially add a lot of time between getting that new player in, and getting them to join their veteran friend who invited them. To be fair, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. Other MMO’s like FF14 actually require the new players to go through all of the game’s story from the baseline game up to the current expansion before they can start doing current end-game content. It really comes down to what type of player the game wants to be catering to. Even for new players, it’s entirely possible to get in, get caught up, and immediately joining your friends if doing endgame content is what you guys were setting out to do. I can definitely confirm this, as I brought in some new players just this expansion, and they’ve hanging out with the rest of our veteran playgroup clearing top-end content. So it comes down to what the aims of the design are, as the designers decided they’d rather avoid having players be forced to go through four hundred hours of story (this is a ballpark estimate and not at all accurate) and instead get them to where their friends might be. You can’t always realistically cater to both people that want to hit endgame quickly and those that don’t without ending up taking away from one or the other. Of course, this means that those playing purely to experience what the game has to offer regardless of what expansion thats in can have issues. Stuff like the calling thing you ran into is definitely a bug and should be reported. I do hope that gets fixed because being able to play how you want IS important. As for how to solve the issues you’re running into, the closest would be the Chromietime, but you’d already pointed out how that ran into problems. I’ve had very limited experience with Chromietime as I rarely level, and I didn’t run into any issues. This really shines with how you don’t get to experience the story conclusions as those tend to happen in the raids -- which you can’t access solo usually. So you’ll not be able to see them unless you are one: told about it, and two: able to clear it on your own. Good news is they appear to be experimenting with having story-mode content for this expansion’s story. Both the dungeons and the current raid (Nerub’ar Palace as of time of posting) have story modes that allow you to clear it solo (with AI teammates) and see all of the related dialogues and cinematics. Fingers crossed this gets carried over. Also, there was a funny ‘last time on World of Warcraft’ cinematic that plays just as you’re entering the current expansion narratively. I hope it plays for you, as it showed up for me -- and most of my friends -- as they logged in after the expac dropped. Super like that you brought this all up, and definitely getting that sub from me. Cheers!

[@GamingForImmersion]

Fantastic comment. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. I suspected that the endgame players would have a much more fulfilling experience overall, and I agree that this is probably where the bulk of the developers' time needs to focus. Having said that, they clearly make older content available, so that comes with a modicum of responsibility to maintain said content. And I presume they're interested in growing their customer base, so wouldn't they want the first impressions to be a little smoother? The ideal way for new players to enter the game is the situation you describe...have a veteran friend walk you through the best way to get to the best content. The experience I described is a bit different, the perspective of a new (or returning) player who wants to organically experience all the game has to offer. It's probably not the majority, as most players in most games are increasing used to online guides and meta builds, but there are a few of us who us who still enjoy taking our time with a game and learning it from the ground up. Hopefully, that's the viewpoint I was able to convey.

[@verserain]

​@@GamingForImmersion At this point I feel the only way for them to solve this mess that would be able to cater to both the story enthusiasts and the end-game slaves is: 1. Keep pushing out Classic versions of all the expansions so you can play all the story with the relevant mechanics as they were in the past and as you supposed to experience them. 2. Get rid of everything that is not current to those expansions - something like Destiny 2 did with their reboot of the story - and start your new character out at the beginning of the leveling experience of said expansion. The only expansion I can think of where this is not easy to do is Cataclysm where a bunch of the experience comes from the revamped world from 1-60, so they would either have to sacrifice that or just have your character skip from 60 to 80. 3. Make all the cosmetics and non-power items (ie. mounts, pets, toys, etc.) that you unlock in a Classic version of the game usable in all other later versions of the game. This is probably the hardest to do and as a long time player I'd personally wouldn't care if this wouldn't happen but a huge reason to keep playing the game after the story ends is to get some stuff you really want or think is cool, so they would probably have to figure out a way to implement something like this. This would solve most of the issues that you were experiencing throughout your journey, as you would be able to play through the story of WoW in a way more authentic and enjoyable way. You would also be able to play the current or whatever Classic content's end-game much faster with a player that's already playing it without the need of "getting you caught up" to them. Of course, I'm sure there are a lot more small caveats that needs to be ironed out by Blizzard and there are some sacrifices to be made in the process but I feel that the overall experience of a new player and even veterans that want to re-experience a certain era of WoW would be improved tremendously.

[@adamzandarski8933]

TLDR you hate casuals too

[@adamzandarski8933]

@@GamingForImmersionif they respond it will just be some variation of skill issue

[@christopherpatricklizares5306]

@@GamingForImmersion A tricky part will be finding ways to justify putting in the time and money for it, I think. To some degree, this very minimal attention to dealing with old content could be because of how time-consuming it can be outside of fixing the odd bug (as the scaling issue you mentioned in the video is definitely a bug that ought to be fixed). Back in Cataclysm, they'd tried to revamp the new Old World as we called it for the -- at the time -- levels 1 to 60 experience and it apparently ate up a lot of dev time and resources that went into the expansion, to the point that it could have been cited as one of the pain points for why some problems cropped up elsewhere. From memory an entire raid had been cancelled, though that's also not that new as far as WoW's history is concerned. Which might be especially bad now on account of the fact that there's significantly more deprecated content that's largely just used for leveling these days. I definitely agree that something does need to be done about it. Maybe they can come up with some middle ground that isn't completely ignoring it or burning much of an expansion's dev time that it affects the actual expansion's content. The tricky part will be convincing the people allocating resources that it's a good thing, because at the end of the day it's still going to be a real concern. And that's speaking from some level of experience in the industry. And I think I got what you wanted to say, yeah. I've also begun to find that what the game currently puts in front of us as the main thing on offer isn't really always what people are looking for. That mismatch is causing problems.

[@Nick-4K]

I've been playing for 10 years. I don't really even pay attention to my rotation. Haha

[@vondreas]

That’s the way to play!

[@PsyrenXY]

Try that in any group content that isn't LFR or Heroics though. Or even high Delves, if you value your time anyway

[@AlexanderJayson]

They need to make WoW 2 with updated graphics, new story, a complete new game. I’d like to play Classic but it’s extremely slow and graphics hurt my eyes. If they mixed the difficulty of Classic, graphical quality (spells, mobs, mounts, character models etc.), keep it semi simple. The game is too old and is extremely bloated, new players cannot get into this game, I love how the combat works and it has a special place in my heart but it’s time for a new game. I would like to collect mounts but that’s a time sink I can’t do, I’d like to collect transmogs but same thing, pets are another time sink as well. I made a druid and realized I can’t even get certain transformations because I didn’t play back then, same with certain mounts and transmogs. It’s pretty dumb the way it works and the game doesn’t tell you how certain things work like embellishments, the only way to figure it out was for me to spend time on KZbin to figure out an essential item for PvP which is a whole nother 10 paragraphs

[@GamingForImmersion]

Pretty much exactly how I feel. I suspect there are quite a few of us like this.

[@conqor1]

You gotta just play it your way. Don't watch KZbin guys telling you what to do. You can play classic to get that really grindy level experience. I jumped back into retail and I'm just playing it. I stopped to read the quests. I hit 80 way before I even finished the story. I did some dailies. Right now I'm doing the 20th anniversary finder quests. It's been a blast. Just enjoy it. You are not going to be a casual and push crazy keys or get every achievement. Just play it and enjoy it.

[@Trashalchemy]

"I hit 80 way before I even finished the story" You don't see how that's a terrible experience?

[@sirflimflam]

What killed gold sellers was the wow token. Blizzard normalized spending money for gold right from the source...so gold sellers had an even tougher sell.

[@pip5528]

This is precisely why I mainly play Classic. It's so much more cohesive and the playerbase is for the most part nicer.

[@supersolenoid]

The game should start in the latest expansion for any new player (not even in Dragonflight) and only later on players should be given the option to level alts in past expansions, with a locked (and improved) experience.

[@vinconssier4224]

I came back, haven’t played since original wrath, and it’s epic. I’m loving it

[@agendathree7297]

I’ve played all the content from the beginning when it started. I made many different character along the way. I feel you are 100% spot on !

[@deathbreach3448]

Blizzard could organize the expansion accordingly, but every time a player caps once, the reach a “Prestige Level” of 1 - 10 for example. Then organize the expansions per prestige level so that the armor and quests remains relevant all the way through the prestige. Give the player an option to prestige to the next expansions, or continue with the current one. In future expansions I could see blizzard trying to make eating and drinking mandatory otherwise a hunger and thirst debuff will make your character weaker in battle. Which would be fine with me, just don’t make it annoying. If on mounts, no food/water drain. If in battlegrounds, food/water wouldn’t count. So basically in open world, giving it more of a survival features. Is it a wish, not exactly. Kinda curious what it’d be like if the mechanics were perfected.

[@meatybtz]

Or when timewalking when in "expansion" things break out of the timewalking scaling. So suddenly you go from getting ilvl340 items, to getting ilevel 50 items. Wait.. what? This also applies to quests that pop out so you go from getting 10gold for a quest and some XP to not even seeing the next main story quest because you had low-level quests turned off and for some reason, this one quest was not "scaled". Or the fact that old content is treated as pointless. This sort of came from when Bliz decided that giving people actual powerfantasy was good (it is good), but then when they released the next xpack they wanted you have the new stuff be hard again.. so they literally turned off all of the end of expansion content and interest (see the end of BFA Content.. as an example, especially the really story and lore related content of the fight against the old gods). Or you are timewalking in Shadowlands, BFA, or Dragon Isles even, and you are questing, leveling, etc, and you are trying to do a quest and you go to click on an item for the quest and it says: you must be lvl 50). Wait.. this is an EARLY quest in an early zone in the xpac. A big part of this problem was caused by the level squish. The level squish was ALWAYS a bad idea. Yes, the road goes ever on and on and it was pretty damned long. That being said, if someone wants to rush to endgame they could always buy a level booster. Otherwise.. take the road. The road is what made the game fun. Not endless grinding over and over at endgame. Mind you, even with the screwups.. Legion still slaps hard if you put the effort in to skip the side quests and only do the lore related and main story path (this takes work in the form of lots of quest googling to build the proper path as often main lore is hidden in side quests. Such as the Xala'tath ones. You meet her (as a dagger and RELEASE HER) in BFA. But 90% of people don't even know the quest because it's this obscure turtle people side quest in an out of the way area. Yeah.. so MAIN LORE/STORY.. the PLAYER releases the big-bad we face in current x-pac. Hmm, that just might be important. But no, it's a side quest.

[@A_Retired_MSgt]

I left during wrath and came back shortly before shadowlands. Playing the game now is exponentially easier than it was before "Chromie time". When I first came back there were situations where you literally couldn't complete quests due to phasing. People that are new to the game or came back after shadowlands really don't have much to complain about.

[@Author_Gamer]

Final Fantasy 14 does a good job addressing many of issues wow has with its old content. And their new player experience is definitely more welcoming though debatably slow. But for players that do play to go through the expansions it is an enjoyable story and experience. You are required to play through expansions in order but the game also has a very generous free trial (base + first 2 expansions with no time limit). Definitely worth the look.

[@Mooseplatoon]

I understand that one of World of Warcraft's biggest problems is its new and returning player experience. I would honestly say that onboarding players into content, catching them up and integrating them into existing communities is the single biggest problem with the game, affecting virtually every system. While I agree with that premise, and personally feel quite strongly about it, I can't help but be frustrated seeing comment sections like these. Virtually every comment I'm reading here feels like they're asking for an experience Blizzard is already providing via Classic, or are asking for WoW to become a game that already exists (FFXIV). While I'm sure there is something useful for the design team to find here, it does feel like this audience wants the game to be something it isn't trying to be. Blizzard should absolutely put more care into their older content, but this game is 20 years old, and has revolved around the content its core audience will spend most of its time doing (referred to as "endgame") for most of that time. I feel that is a deeply unrealistic ask for thousands of hours of quests to be repeatedly restructured into a curated experience for what would be a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Classic exists for people who want to experience the game as it was years ago, and there are entire KZbin channels dedicated to presenting the lore of the game to you in a more coherent way than the game has ever managed. An in-game "recap" of sorts is definitely a feasible request that I feel they should, and will make. A fully supported, 20 year spanning story mode, however? That's not likely to happen, and if it does it will come in bits and piece over the course of many years. I'm sorry to any that might disappoint.

[@Algron]

the hero's journey begins once you reach max level, you have more than enough ways to progress and improve which are actually challenging do you really want them to force players to level through 20 years of expansions before they can play with their friends or before they get to experience the new raid and etc

[@misterbrady100]

I don't think he wants to force anyone into anything. He seems to enjoy the journey through all the old content, and seems to want the option to level that way.

[@Ryan-sn3uo]

Had a buddy who recently got into WoW during Dragonflight, and he was funneled into BfA, just like new players are now into Dragonflight. Honestly, not a bad decision by Blizzard. The leveling progression and the self-contained storyline of the zone is cohesive enough for a new player to follow. My friend was gushing about how much he enjoyed Jaina's story in Kul Tiras, and he was happy see her show up again in TWW, albeit briefly. The problem only arises for returning players who have an idea of what expansion they want to level in instead of Dragonflight. Now they have to deal with all the uncurated sequence that game bounces you back an forth in with the popup quests. Unfortunately, I don't think Blizzard sees this tangled mess worth justifying investing resources into, but I hope they change their stance on it if they wish to potentially onboard some Classic players into Retail. There is not much Blizzard can do with the Artifact Weapons either. If they made them scale like heirlooms for only lower level content, just for it to go obsolete when you hit endgame, it will make you feel even more horrible when replacing it. They can't incorporate the old Artifact tree on it because most of the abilities have been baked into the current base talent tree. Canonically they have been depowered. It's honestly least of the problems that plague the new and returning player experience. The only possibility I see them revisiting its scaling is during the potential Legion Remix coming up after S3 TWW before Midnight releases.

[@deenman23]

some of the stories are done well,but doing bfa first as a new player is hella confusing,jaina has a LONG ass history in wow lol,bfa is like the climax for her

[@zwarnick3216]

While FF14 isn’t perfect, it actually handles most of the issues World of Warcraft has with old content. It shows these problems can be fixed-Blizzard just doesn’t seem to want to. I can only imagine the outrage if leveling in WoW was made slower and more challenging again. The vibe of the modern WoW player seems to be "gogogogogo!"-leveling is just a chore to get past, not something people enjoy anymore. Honestly, I think that’s a shame. Leveling should feel like part of the adventure, not just something to skip through. It’s a chance to get into the story and really feel like your character is growing. FF14 proves that when you make the journey matter, players can enjoy it instead of just rushing to the finish line without sacrificing a challanging endgame or leveling game in general

[@dragonriderabens9761]

see, the problem with this is that FFXIV is a JRPG first, and an MMO second, so the leveling is where most of the content is at to begin with WoW is designed where most of the good content can only be done at level cap, so of course leveling becomes a chore and it's been that way a LOT longer than just the leveling squish for years, all the epic moments in the story have been found at the end game. this is an issue that goes back to Vanilla. FFXIV has theirs in the leveling process. to get WoW up to that point would require a MASSIVE (aka, VERY expensive) overhaul of the game from the ground up not to mention undoing the level squish which will upset A LOT of people and even Yoshi-P has stated 14 is reaching a point where they need to consider an alternative path for leveling in future expansions because the numbers are getting too big (WoW's level squish was 120 when they did theirs, IIRC) this isn't a defense of how WoW does it, to be clear. I 100% agree that leveling SHOULD be part of the adventure (though as an altaholic, I can easily see it becoming a chore when I make my 3rd or 4th class anyway with how WoW is settup RN) just explaining that it's not as simple and easy as you think at this point. while the games seem very similar, they are built quite differently. I say this as someone who has put well over 2k hours into both and infinitely prefers FFXIV's approach

[@TheJoukai]

@@dragonriderabens9761 It's not just leveling though, it's ALL of the dungeons and raids that got abandoned by not being relevant anymore. In FFXIV's leveling experience, it runs characters through every dungeon and every raid if they want to and there are systems in place to allow them to do it. No one is going to do Ulduar in WoW in 2024... but you can get a group to do Alexander Normal in FFXIV. It's not just narrative questing FFXIV does better, it respects its older group content and keeps it doable by new players in a way WoW just doesn't... which is a shame because, as you said, some of WoW's most epic moments are in the end game... raids and dungeons that no one can do as they were intended anymore.

[@deenman23]

if wow did that i promise you 90% atleast would quit the game,if someone wants slow leveling they play vanila

[@christopherpatricklizares5306]

@@dragonriderabens9761 Both definitely have their own set of issues. The tricky bit is that not all players want the same things. Understandably, people that enjoy FF14 are people that are very narrative-driven, and like to play their games for the story and lore, as well as being able to experience the world. It's very good at it, and I've actively directed friends that are looking for that experience there. Conversely, the fact that WoW's leveling is so fast is a plus for me BECAUSE I don't want to do that. I much prefer just getting it out of the way and being able to get to end-game and play with my friends as soon as I can because THAT's why I play this genre. To play with my friends. Admittedly, part of why I was put-off by FF14 was the mandatory story which was about four hundred-ish hours by my last check (from what people have told me). It's not something I want to do, and people telling me I had the option to BUY a story skip AND level skip potion (separately) just turned me off. Why go through that when I can play a game where I need a day or so to hit cap from a fresh toon, and I can skip story after the first run? Besides that, I've found some weird-ass double-standard where people seem okay with FF14's cash shop items and not with WoW. Obviously these might not be the same people, but I find it hella funny. Unless more resources are put into it, we can't have it both ways. FF14 is going to be running into the bloat issue soon, and WoW opted to just trivialize leveling for this reason. Of course this has its own set of issues, like the ones mentioned in this video for WoW, and the teething problems that are slowly cropping up for FF14. Honestly, though it WOULD be good if they can start taking even a little bit of time and money each expansion to removing those pain points. It's cool to see and meet people that play the way Gaming for Immersion does, and while I don't personally find it enjoyable myself, they oughta be able to have a space to do that.

[@joejanota707]

Easy fix. War Band buff. You get one skill point to apply to any secondary skill of your choice (Leech, haste, mastery ect) acquired by any collectible achieved 1=1. Subject to diminishing returns and balance changes in the future. Use of buff at the mercy of devs as to what competitive content you are able to apply it. In doing this the old patterns from old professions would be relevant, old quest rewards would be relevant, the economy in old gear and other collectibles would be relevant, the traffic in old zones would increase. Old progress would become relevant and the security in knowing you have a performative value that can not be taken away, only planned for, insures the player will gain a sense of completion and achievement. You don't need to change much else about the game. The one simple addition of a script pulling the total collected collectibles and giving the player equal points to spend on any secondary stats they wish would fix most of WOWs issues. It's fair, has a soft cap and can be relevant to all future content. It would be class specs, talents and war band points. Introduced to players so even that poorly scaled mob can be planned around by getting stronger and returning to finally beat it. Regardless of your or its level.

[@WeissB94]

I started in wrath of the lich king and i got to experience the classic world as my leveling experience before the cataclysm. The game has definitely changed over the years and i often wish they would just make a new starting we can always play the classic era servers so it doesn't matter if they remove that content from the currant version of wow. Also every time i go back to the old content it is very buggy and unplayable because of all the spaghetti code layered on top each other. We need another world revamp and like i said if you want to play the old world just go to a classic era server.

[@timelordricknmorty8179]

WoW's story also really suffers from a lot of the storytelling being locked behind nonlinear quests or raids that you can't do because no one is doing LFR for them anymore or even questlines that are now no longer doable. For example my favorite character, Wrathion, has an extremely hard story to follow ingame. The first part is simple enough, it's a cata badlands questline. Then you have to do the rogue-exclusive legendary questline from Cataclysm, fangs of the father. If you're not a rogue, you can't do this, and also it's part of the dragon soul raid and you will have to be a high level to solo it. Then the next part of his story is a REMOVED legendary questline that was only doable during MoP. And then it's a book outside the game, then he vanishes until a max level questline in BfA, and then the most accessible part of his storyline is in Dragonflight (where they funnel new players into now) where they reference all the previous stuff he did in those really out-of-the-way questlines. You may as well just watch a youtube video to find out who he is. I have no idea why blizzard would outright remove story content. (There's also an area on the timeless isle that's completely inaccessible unless you did the legendary cloak questline in MoP. which is, once again, removed.)

[@GamingForImmersion]

Really good point.

[@Briansgate]

To me, it seems that they just don't even care about bringing in new players. They already have their hooks in the people that will play their game, and there is no need to try to draw new people in. Therefore, no need to re-vamp the beginning stuff. Just keep adjusting for the current player base that is already there.

[@dystopia-usa]

I first started playing WoW at launch in 2004. I quit what is now known as Retail Blizzard WoW during the initial MoP run. Tried Retail again several times since then over the years but never lasted more than a month or so before quitting. Played Blizzard Classic WoW on & off starting in 2019, but eventually got tired of the rampant bots, RMT & cheaters, & toxic player community in-general (& left during Classic WotLK when the longtime Classic guild I was in finally drifted apart and/or quit). Started Turtle WoW earlier this year & still playing that - they seem to do Vanilla WoW better than Blizzard with their Vanilla+ project & properly control the bots/RMT.

[@deenman23]

no1 is doing rmt in turtle wow lol because theres no reason,also you literaly cant stop rmt,its literaly imposible

[@Gigglerue]

The artifact weapons in Legion need to be powered up through relics to be of any use, you can easily obtain powerful enough relics by doing the Legion quests, but they only scale up to the same level of power as any easily purchased heirloom because they were very overpowered on twinks back when they first squished the levels down from 120 to 50. :P

[@deenman23]

na herlooms are always behind in ilvl of what you can get as drops for your current lvl

[@Gigglerue]

@@deenman23 I know, what I'm saying is that *artifact weapons* used to be overpowered, but now they are *worse* than *heirlooms*... :P

[@mr.u3078]

capping 60 used to be an accomplishment that could take months, having to run everywhere, read quest descriptions and find the right things to solve them, now it takes a day to reach expansion level cap

[@Testifiable]

It wasn't even an accomplishment in 2019 classic. It was only a big deal in 04 because we sucked at the game, computers were bad, and so was internet.

[@deenman23]

yeah for like the first year of original wow,its been 20 years my dude,its time to get over it and move on

[@Briansgate]

@@Testifiable and everyone didn't already have everything in the game memorized.

[@Randall_Kildare]

THe major issue points directly at the trivialization of leveling & the 'lobbying' of the game, with it's heavy reliance on instanced content.. Were they to toggle leveling difficulty back & force players to take a month to cap, it would drastically inhibit 'jumping in' but would reward the exploration & reward players with a real sense of accomplishmepnt. Were they to expand the world content & put less focus on the instanced challenges, they loose the try-hards they've addicted over the years. More than anything, I think the 'World of Island-craft' expansion concept: moving the whole playerbasse to a new compartemnt for every expansion; has really damgaed the game. You are no longer out in the world, you're in a whole new game; only nominally connected to all the prior content. Additionally, Hierloom weapons & armor TOTALLY killed progressive crafting. THe removeal of these now favorite items would make the game so much better, even for the deafaning whine it would illicit from the subs. They should give players a leveling tabard which grants +%100 experience while worn & then roll the xp amount needed to level back to a relative crawl, giving players the chance to really soak up the games many excellent ecperiences.

[@elevatormusicirelia9043]

I see how you feel, and I respect that we all miss a lot of what the game used to be. But you are looking too hard for what is NOT there anymore, rather than focusing on what WoW has become today in 2024. I really love classic, I was promoting it years before it was introduced. They certainly missed a few marks on Classic as well, but it is there, and pretty close to what it was for those who yearn for such a time. I can only start killing wolves fresh in Elwynn forest so many times though. I've done progression servers on both Everquest and WoW, and explored both of their classical landscapes about as thoroughly as I can. But each time it loses a little bit of the feeling of Nostalgia, and becomes more and more of a repeat grind getting pre raid BIS and eventually working into a full time schedule just to be able to arrive on raid night with consumables and world buffs. Retail on the other hand has its own grinds, its own problems and also a bloating problem with stats leading toward another lvl Crush / Cataclysm xpac to bring things back into a reasonable scale again. I really hope they just make all three expansions in the world soul saga at lvl 80. I don't really look forward to being lvl 100 again. On the other hand, there is depth to Retail wow that simply is not there in Classic. Comparing spec diversity, composition diversity for dungeons and raids, options for builds within respective specs...there is no competition. Hands down, Classic has become a very rigid environment with everyone expected to have X , Y and W items and talents. There is also not nearly as much game to explore in classic, as big as it feels running around without a mount and even after you get it being confined to the ground, its not nearly as big as Retail. Again, retail just has so much more world to dig into. Lastly, there are just tons more things to do in Retail from Solo Shuffle to Delves to Achievements to just trying out new classes and secondary skills like Archaeology. I suggest you stop looking for what is No Longer there in the game, and start looking at what is there. The windshield is larger than the rearview for a reason.

[@EvlEgle]

well, the problem with not being able to do that whole heros journey thing, and the scaling as well... Is that at this point, you would need several months just to reach end game. And most new players would quit before ever making it to even their first expansion. If we never had the level squish, we would currently be at level 150. If you assume that every level after level 10 takes and average of an hour, you are going to have to play almost 6 days, nonstop, without leaving the computer. Just to level up 1 character.

[@disyaluv]

Agree on every point!! Im a returning player and so sad that most of the game is useless and messed up. But I still enjoy it and paus xp gains to experience old expansions that I missed.

[@johnblakely6568]

They're fractionating the player base too much with all of the classics and seasons. At some point they will need to figure out some way to coalesce everything back together and split it back out again. Perhaps they will implement player graveyards where you can go to honor your ancestors (previous characters, think Mulan+Quantum Leap) and jump in to their lives at that point in the timeline.

[@deenman23]

that would make no difference,just that instead of opening the game with a different version,you open it inside the game lol

[@ajewell8918]

Imagine saying it hates new players and then words like it’s to easy, “just trivial”, and then the boss comes and you can’t solo it…. Considering this is a MMO game, and not all is solo able, this is where the game teaches you about grouping, which an MMO is also intended for… the easy aspect is to cater to new players

[@msscott22]

At this point the world is so big it's overwhelming for someone that is new or missed a few expansions. I love this about this game, but I can't deny it can be too much for anyone that hasn't processed it yet.

[@deenman23]

thats only if your big in to collectables like transmog,mounts,pets,quest completions etc

[@Eyevou]

Blizzard really have a problem with fixing their older content. If it's broken they rarely go back and do anything about it. WoD was so broken at one point that you couldn't log in without getting a LUA error. An error from their own client because they deprecated a function and forgot to remove the reference. Addon devs couldn't do anything about it either as it was in a protected script. It remained like that FOR YEARS!

[@GamingForImmersion]

Wow. That's worse than anything I've encountered, but it makes me worried for what I might still find.

[@mishab4065]

With all the different timelines and forced new content the game feels fundamentally broken. I started a questline for older content and the first scene happened in Stormwind throne room that had NPCs from that timeline as well as from the then current one. Younger Anduin sitting on older Anduin's lap was not a very immersive experience tbh 😂 Returning to the game for the current expansion convinced me a new players must feel assaulted by the game. I really hate how you are automatically given a Dragonflight quest after hitting certain level. I wanted to try a newly unlocked allied race (ytsrting at lvl 10 i think) and the opening cinematic had no audio because it clashed with fucking Wrathion inviting me to the Dragon isles.

[@mintx1720]

I would say this is not true anymore. DF is very alt friendly so playing its contents on the side is very chill and does not feel a chore (unlike say shadowlands or BFA).

[@shirrenthewanderer414]

Players don't want to interact with each other anymore, they just expect everyone to just play meta spec/be overleveled/punch through mechanics. I've joined countless "push" teams that disband after the first wipe, people who socialize but don't want to be your friend, I can play FFXIV better but honestly my Pandaren Brewmaster has a much more interesting skillset than any FFXIV job and I miss being able to fly zonelessly. People in FFXIV are nice but they have to be nice.

[@deenman23]

ofc push teams disband after the first wipe,because why would they continue if it wont give you score lol,the entire point of pushing is to increase score,if that is failed,why continue?

[@Blue.Diesel]

Classic is so good because content is never really obsolete.

[@deenman23]

when you can afk your way to bis gear its pretty obsolete

[@cavaloteta]

Blizzard need to re-do the leveling system. It's a complete mess in every way; They need to come up with something that tells the new player the minimum about the story (it doesnt need to be everything, just the basics to understand what is going on); They need to remove the combat addons. It's so ridiculous for a new player when he discovers that he needs to download and configure a third part program to play the game, because Blizzard made the game so unnecessarily complicated just to keep up with the same problem: the combat addons. Not to mention the gatekeeping that those unnecessarily complicated mechanics causes; Inflation in this game is ridiculous, Blizzard has no idea what it's doing in relation to the economy, any relevant item is extremely expensive, the players who have been playing the game for 400 years, have 300 characters and manage to keep paying absurd amounts for anything, because the game generates a good amount of passive gold, but the new player doesn't have the slightest chance, playing casually, of buying items with prices exaggeratedly high, so they buy wow tokens, or quit this circus. At this point I don't even think that Blizzard doesn't care or hates about anything, I saw them at least trying in Dragonflight and TWW, I think they just have no idea what they are doing or what to do.

[@proudpups4652]

You can just turn xp off for a while if you want to stay low level and quest.

[@azkendarken4403]

dont they hate veteran players as well xd well not all but there is a big % of sh1t-eaters that will rush to defend any decision blizzard makes and if a veteran players complains they will tell him to unsub and leave their game. blizz is their god and wow is their life. the kind of players that called dragonflight the best expac and buy the auction house mount and early access

[@samuelaubrey2612]

And this is wow classic vanilla and TBC to an extent is so popular

[@deenman23]

vanila is popular for many reasons,most are nostalgia,boomer apm issues,retail is easy at its base,but if you wanna get the best gear it gets pretty hard compared to vanila,some DUNGEON bosses in war within have more mecanics than some vanila raids combined,oh and im sure many dont have decent pc's to play it

[@kadeskywalker8367]

I came back to the game for the TWW new expansion. I went to Undercity and boom dead to poison I was like wtf 😂😂😂 I went to Google and they were like talk to this npc to go back in time... I was like ok. That didn't work cause she wouldn't talk to me... Went back to Google to find out that in order for her to talk to me I had to do all kinds of quest chains... Oh and you have to do that in every alt if you don't want to die in the undercity poison 😂😂😂 so I gave up on going back to undercity in any of my 12+ lvl 70 alts...

[@Greatlakessailing]

I stopped playing blizzard games when they behaved so disgracefully with China and Hong Kong. I have to admit, i was already greatly dissapointed with them and what they had done to the game by that point anyway. I had been playing since early vanilla, and that was the last straw.

[@GamingForImmersion]

Good point. I try to set aside my personal feelings for the company when I play, sort of like with movies and music, but I can't blame anyone who wants to boycott Blizzard entirely.

[@matthewharrington5990]

Blizzard deliberately nerfed older content because veteran players were abusing it to get time walking sets with legendary weapons & using old gear to develop speed running sets etc

[@ssu7653]

I came back at start of TWW, played dragonflight content to level and enjoyed it. Last i played was wotlk, but back then it was also just a race to max level to start playing the game.

[@deenman23]

if you like collecting stuff you have so much on your plate if you didnt play since wrath haha,oh boy....i cant even imagine it,i dont even think its posible to get everything from past expansions wile still playing the current expansion,more will just come out anyways and you will never finish,i dont even mean finish 100% collecting everything as thats literaly imposible for you now,but even 50% is gonna be a huge time investment

[@questcore636]

blizz would love it if they could remove the old content and force us to just do current content, no moree raid farming, no more old school questing, no more mount farming, just make uas do current raids and mythic+

[@deenman23]

thats one of the most deranged statements i have heard lol,milions of people play this game just to collect stuff

[@yulmoocha7199]

I would argue that it's not WoW hating new players, it's about how Blizzard hates... Blizzard. Blizzard has this absurd obsession with getting rid of everything they've done so far. D4 launches with none of the features added in years of servicing D3. Nope has to be a clean slate. Every expansion in WoW? Ooh boy finally time to get rid of past 5 years of development! My guess is Blizzard culture is so toxic that teams harbor an immense hatred towards the past team who worked on the previous product of Blizz entertainment. They can't stand the fact that what they produce right now is inferior compared to what they've done in the past... as chiefly evidenced by WoW classic being so successful.

[@PhyXez]

The last 3 expansions i was skiping thru every possible cutscene tbh. I play for the endgame and with mop remix i had a chance to level up 3chars / day to 70. So i dont have to pay for character boosts. Just level up from 70 to 80 in a few hours. I dont care about the lore anymore. Rush to max level and start m+ as soon as possible. There are a lot of peeople who does the same. So for me i dont really care about the new player experience or slower leveling. WoW is in the endgame.

[@lpcurio]

Arent you excited to get to level 80 next expansion and have all of your gear be worthless?

[@BorgWolf359]

I left after 3.5 WotLK! I came back in Dragonflight! I started as Alliance because I was Horde since WoW Beta! It is all new story for me & I love it! I play for the storyline now & I no longer Raid! I love the NPC's Dungeon runs & Delves! Real life is crazier now that I am older LOL! I wish they would fix the crafting systems! I think Class Halls should be outside of Time & you get contacted by them at level 10 with a Letter! You can do CH quests while leveling up & get skills that way! Their answer to the over leveling in one expansion is the turn off experience! I turn off experience at 50 so I can do all of the quests & story!

[@deenman23]

i wish i had more time for the collectable part of the game,but when i play wow im kept bussy by all the current stuff,the aniversary event farming badges,raid,m+ ,meta quests,profession,i barely have time to do some old raids for mounts and stuff

[@keblin86]

I feel like Retail WoW has just become a cluster of a mess and then with each new content update it's a mess upon a mess upon a mess and the cycle just repeats. It's so bad now that I don't think they can ever clean it up and I don't think they want to dedicate the time to. Also, whattttt how did all your professions get free skill upgrades? None of mine did that lol. Was this recent? I haven't played since the end of DF

[@deenman23]

what mess?when new content is out the old doesnt matter anymore,unless its collectable stuff,this isnt poe lol

[@keblin86]

Try a story playthrough, it's a mess, no idea which storyline to follow, what order. Etc and as mentioned in the video, half the systems don't even work anymore or let do that content. Some of us still enjoy the older content! Theres many things I liked that have been taken away or nerfed into oblivion that there is no point in doing them anymore - especially from a farming/gold making perspective.

[@XAn0nymousX0]

Yeah, all your points are valid. But I wonder if you can point to another mmo where because of it's power creep over the years has made all previous content irrelevant. Runescape you still have to do all the quests I suppose and slowly grind your way up to the OP stuff. Gw2 you can freely play the base game now, but it's inefficient to do so. It's better to buy path of fire or secrets of the obscure so you get access to mounts to travel the world easier. Because trying to keep up with certain map metas is impossible with no mounts. My point is, this is a problem with all these long standing mmos. They're all super unfriendly to a new player. Wow is the same. I think wow might be worse than others because of how broken chromie is and multiple phases of npcs and zones are. You can very easily break your game using chromie time. Even as a long time veteran of the game I had several instances where I had to dig through forums or a 3rd party site to figure out why I couldn't find an npc. Good video.

[@deenman23]

gw2 still starts you at the beggining,a new player can understand the history,in wow a new player is 100% lost by just playing the game,it is by far the worst example of all the mmos when it comes to new players,forcing you in to BFA or DF with no context is WILD, check out DAY9 trying wow,its crazy and eye opening to a veteran like me

[@oran1plays]

scaling is still the number one worse thing ever added in a mmorpg.

[@deenman23]

yeah thats the only thing i enjoy in classic more,the feeling of progression wile lvling,but to be fair...in retail you dont spend much time lvling,and at the current expansion it doesnt scale anymore

[@Yin44487]

150 comments at the time i watched this, 3 days after it's posted. Is this your most commented video?

[@GamingForImmersion]

By far.

[@Yin44487]

@GamingForImmersion Well done on your growth.

[@GamingForImmersion]

Thanks, but I'm mixed about it. Folks are going to be disappointed when I don't do more WOW videos. It's just not a game I'll ever get hardcore into.

[@Yin44487]

@GamingForImmersion Eh, you are only a year old at this point in your channel. Your content will change over time, I'm sure. Us watchers will come and go. I say set expectations and make content that pleases you. Maybe create a video series that is your thoughts on different games. Like... "Immersive Thoughts on game name." Then you have your let's plays and another series on your thoughts on other games you are interested in. Space marine was not your normal game which is why your perspective and helpful hints were fun. But this is all just my opinion. 👍🏾

[@noonesp3cial]

Community is to blame mostly.

[@georgedevries3992]

0:20 A ton of content doesn't make a game necesarilly good, though. Everyone has his/her vices to enjoy in this life and that's fine. No qualms with that. But for anyone to consider WoW a good game, is pure lunacy. Especially its retail version. Then again, Classic has kinda become a retail light at this point so...

[@BobbyFlay14]

Retail still sucks. If you want a true mmo filled with adventure with new sociable people classic is the way. I’ve added more people on my friends list from 3 days of fresh than 10 years on retail

[@deenman23]

such an adventure spaming 1 buton and avoiding a fire patch

[@BobbyFlay14]

@ raiding is not the entire game

[@deenman23]

@@BobbyFlay14 true,but saying you find more adventure in vanila than retail is objectivly wrong,try playing df and tww zones,its packed with stuff to do and find,all vanila zones combined dont have the content of one modern zone

[@BobbyFlay14]

@ you’re completely correct in your statement. But imo that’s all just solo content lol retail is more a arpg nowadays lol

[@dh8657]

you havent even played the end game? brah shut up and play the end game

[@evilvash0]

Games Toxic in all versions Game designs best from MoP and before, Devs in current vs anything from MoP and before are no offense horrible the leveling sucks, everythings all around Stat Sites, specific talent choices, specific stats, focused so hard around Arena World Cup, Raid World First and MDI Events....the 1% is what most the games catered too everything else is side content for solo and casuals edit: I try and be nice to new players and returning players but damn the amount of toxic sweating in this game has become overwhelming that the braindead idiots who act that way and gate keep don't realize all their doing is making the game smaller and smaller in a player base to the point won't be sustainable even by whales...theres so many Low pop servers regardless of merges and cross realm activity its sad because their still dead realms that blizzard just won't delist on the server list and move everyone to the big servers they are merged too etc

[@MattSinz]

WTF are you talking about? MoP was a good expansion.

[@deenman23]

at the start it was pure cancer,it did get better

[@driiifter]

New players don't align with their money grubbing, plain and shrimple. When you look at a WoW, you're looking at a whale's game, kinda like EVE Online. The game sustains its self off of whales even though it has content in it for people who barely even play video games, aka pet battles. WoW as an MMO has an insanely casual section of players, I'm talking about people who substitute Pokemon or mobile games for WoW. WoW is like 1 step up from a mobile game for some of these players, they literally do nothing but collect stuff. I have people in my guild as we speak who do nothing but collect crap, they don't do dungeons, Delves, raids, pvp, nothing, they quest and collect. New players are like anti-money to Blizzard. They don't do anything that generates Blizzard money. They come in, check out the game, then dip out. You can begin to see why they hate them. Their overlords control them.

[@toenuckles]

Turtle wow

[@LakeVermilionDreams]

There never really was the leveling pacing you have nostalgia for. You could always hit max level before questing out the entire expansion.

[@GamingForImmersion]

True, but it's definitely gotten much worse since then.

[@PerseusKarvasius]

just GIT GUD BADDIE