World of Warships- Top 5 Reasons Why The Game Is Dying

Hey guys! Today we go over the five most commonly mentioned reasons the game is going the way of the Dodo according to you guys! Enjoy!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
2:27 5.Matchmaking
8:23 4.The Meta
13:12 3.Agressive Monetization
16:56 2.CVs
23:34 Submarines

[@DvdV1337]

If i quit this game its because of bad game design. Subs are playing a different game than all surface ships. Subs are playing a target practice game. The surface ships are playing: guess where the sub is. Yes you can see the ping, but he can be anywhere in a circle of 20 metres going in any direction. They're frustrating to play against, most of the time all you can do is run away.

[@shironee_2384]

Sub ping effect randomness are just dumb, even for sub players the ping indicator is a hindrance than helping. For those who don't play sub, I will explain. When playing sub and do ping, they don't actually see where the ping indicator is showing from enemy PoV, thus you can't do anything about it but pray that the ping is on the opposite of where you going. The base exp boost is also unnecessarily dumb. Most of the frustation about submarine come from german subs, as they provide broken stats for everything submarine needed. Best concealment, best sub radar, high speed, and battery consumables, even their other stats are not so crippling than the other line sub does (US Sub in manouver, UK in health). This is what I've learned from playing subs from T6 to T10. In short, they're a mess for just one class. I could go on and on, but that would take an essay.

[@andrewpena9041]

That's why I hated playing my New Mexico. The matches in everything up to the New York are fun. New Mexico on the matches are just frustrating. Between the cruisers that can match your range and spam you with he and the submarines. With Wyoming and South Carolina, it's more realistic. The only chance a cruiser has is to close and use torpedoes. But when I'm paying attention, they get a 12 in 12 gun broadside to the face. S turns are your friend in those ships.

[@tonyennis1787]

One really big issue is the escalation of damage and power. This makes it very hard for double-uptiered ships to function at all. For a great example, try a New Mexico or Bayern against a tier 8 submarine. You can't do anything about it.

[@guacamole6856]

Max upgrade New Mexico and my damage does absolutely nothing against higher ships. Don’t know how much longer can play this game.. very frustrating. Not only that but half my team dies first 5 min of game

[@orztaku]

that's not a matter of Tier or w/e. Submarines are just so ridiculously broken that a T6 sub can sh*t on any T10 surface ship about as easily as a T10 sub sh*ts on any T6 surface ship...the only thing that does or can even remotely safe you from a submarine is the player playing it being otherworldly bad at it...

[@orztaku]

@@guacamole6856 "skill issue" ? Mid and low tier has always been "interesting" for different kinds. But generally BB can do decent dmg against higher tier ships, you just have to position and aim well enough ... which is mostly a matter of experience which would need to be gained first. A bigger problem is that the higher tier ships often deal dmg by just shooting in the general direction. This is especially true since WG has introduced a ton of higher tier ships with big guns ... big enough to just overmatch (aka ignore) all but the main belt armor of low tier BB (and god forbid you play cruiser...).

[@guacamole6856]

@@orztaku prob is skill issue since still kinda new at the game. Difficult facing off with higher tier. Do get destroyed easily with Dallas cruiser recently unlocked.

[@soondead007]

West VA 44 just cries in the corner...

[@caa4118]

Man this game brings so many nostalgia but its sad seeing its current state

[@BrunoCunha88]

Sadly this is the result of going full pay to win😢😅 And not even care bout the players that actually play their game..

[@MattVF]

I like the idea of making a sub more detectable if it’s doing 30knots at periscope depth or in fact high speed full stop. A subs biggest defence is stealth. Speed = cavitation = noise. The more noisy you are the easier it should be to detected. The skill would be then balancing speed and stealth.

[@orztaku]

should probably look at what speed the real historical submarines did..... the fastest military submarine that ever existed, the soviet Alfa class (project 705 Lira), which was in service starting 1971, barely made 12kts surfaced and 41kts submerged. For the WW2 submarines it was commonly like 15-20kts on the surface and 5-10kts submerged.....in fact the periscope of a WW2 submarine likely wouldn't survive if the sub made 30kts....

[@dumuntai]

​@orztaku the scope of a modern submarine wouldn't survive at that speed. There are in fact showed limitations while running at PD. If this game were factually accurate, no one would play it everything would be too slow.

[@geraldleuven169]

The problem with these type of games is that you either haven't fired a shot all match because your team mates killed the team before you had a chance to shoot or when you go more on the offensive you get killed before you can fire a shot.

[@mernyr]

I actively played the game daily from alpha tests (when those were active) up until 2020. Post CV rework has been a downward spiral with one bad decision after another. Promise after promise broke, and unwanted addition after unwanted addition.

[@mt4798]

Controversial fix. Give torpedoes an ammo count. U199 had 6 tubes (4+2) and carried 24 torps irl. You can reload in a spawn area or cap your team owns. You could do the same for any other ship. DDs could get to a reload area quickly and cruisers and BBs wouldn't really care so much as they carried more torps and use them less. Subs would still be pretty lethal, but they couldn't torp spam without regard to ammo consumption.

[@stflaw]

There were a number of changes that gradually increased by frustration with the game, including non-game play changes like the economic and commander "reworks". The final nail in the coffin, however, was the submarines. A year and a half ago, I bought the maximum $200 worth of doubloons using the birthday coupon. Six months ago on my birthday, I only bought $50 in doubloons. This upcoming birthday, I plan to spend no money at all. I haven't stopped playing entirely, but my gameplay has dropped by maybe 90%. Spending money on the game, however, is no longer on the table. I expect my gameplay will gradually trail off until I stop altogether. Given Wargaming's obvious disdain for its own player base and its aggressive monetization, there is no chance I will ever become involved in another WG "free-to-play" game.

[@DarthMcLeod]

Carriers did that for me. I swore off supporting the game with my money. And I've done OK. I've hoarded collections and containers which could give me a day of premium time so when I need a premium day I can get myself one.

[@zifnab_fizban1998]

right there with you stflaw - subs and the lame changes have pretty much led me to just stop, I still have some prem time and lots of ships, but no more $$$ ever. Done - which is a real bummer. I LOVED this game

[@johnnybravo3714]

Puerto Rico dockyard did it for me. Best decision I ever made to walk away.

[@stflaw]

I hear you. I've been playing since the game went live. I have over 40K games played. But enough is enough.@@zifnab_fizban1998

[@Smenkhaare]

The Pay To Rico did it for a lot of people. Only play now with free premium. Have not spent a dim since early 2018... been playing since beta under a much different name@@johnnybravo3714

[@lasselundi9699]

Yeah same here, I left the game when submarines became tech tree. I was whale, paid for every dockyard to get the steel, got most early access packages until I had all special camo's ( I was going for the camos) and got enough christmas boxes to accumulate 1700 days of premium and all premiums. If there are more people like me that left, WG will feel that. I will only come back if there is an option not to play against CV's and subs.

[@Tuning3434]

sounds like WG already got all of the money they needed from you?

[@lasselundi9699]

@@Tuning3434 The money they got in the past from me will not cover their running cost today or tomorrow.....

[@bishoprenegade5540]

i guess we wont see you again then as thats a hard ask

[@keldon_champion]

​@@bishoprenegade5540I agree that's a very hard ask because then the sub and CV players might as well not exist because none would choose to play against them

[@Boatswain_Tam]

As one of the older players who remember RTS CV, I definitely disagree on your take. Yes, you had a handful of players who would win the game and nuke ships, but to their credit, they were good because they sunk in the hours to get good. You had to practice and grind to get good in RTS CVs, because it wasn't just fly around, pick your targets and attack. You had to interact with other players & esp. the enemy CV. You had fighters, which means you can cover your team mates from getting attacked. Also, remember the time when your CV lured the enemy planes over your AA CA? Another thing was that AA actually worked before the rework. Defensive fire will chase away and de plane a CV, compared to the joke it is today. I'm not saying RTS CVs was perfect, but all they had to do was tweak ot here & there to optimise it. Playing a RTS CV you command an entire carrier air wing, & you had to do fleet defence, conduct attacks & plan your strikes. You know, like an actual CV captain. Now it's a one dimensional, non interactive play. I don't feel my CV supports me, they are just 2 world of warplanes players farming dmg in a warships game. As for subs. There are only 2 things WG needs to do. Nerf their speed (by at least 25%) & give a plane ASW option to all ships and make it the same range as their main battery

[@Smenkhaare]

I also liked the old CV's which could be countered with defensive AA and they had to be careful not to lose all of their planes.

[@Karmag555]

I 100% agree. Original CV mechanics were far better in large part due to one thing: permanence. Every plane that you shot down from a CV was a plane that they weren't getting back that match. You knew that, and the CV player (well, the good ones) knew that. So when you managed to actually "just dodge" a strike, taking near-zero damage in return for 5-7 planes downed, that was a notable win for you which could go on to affect the whole match. But with regenerating planes, CVs just don't care. So what if they whiff their first attack, or their second, or their third? They'll just send up another full squadron time and time again until they get lucky. Sure, an *exceptionally* bad CV player can still almost get deplaned, but that is very rare (especially with Soviet CVs added). The result of all that was that with original CV mechanics, when you faced off against an incoming attack wave, *you were playing the game* and so was the CV player. It was a contest of skill, with a permanent outcome on the line for each side (loss of HP versus loss of planes, neither of which can be infinitely replaced). Sure, for most ships it was a *difficult* fight if you didn't have stellar AA, but you felt that either you or the CV driver generally 'earned' the win, no matter who walked away with it. But now, that feeling of skill on the CV driver's part just isn't there. Fighting a CV these days feels like taking a gunboat-only DD up in a solo duel versus a RN BB (say, Friesland/Groningen versus Conqueror). You have to get every play right just to not get deleted in minutes, and even then you're facing an opponent where you're not inflicting permanent damage. Nobody respects CV players anymore (and people used to respect good CV players pre-rework... *and* hate them!), because there's essentially no skill involved in current CV gameplay.

[@Smenkhaare]

You definitely get what was good about the old days for sure.@@Karmag555

[@samuelhakansson6680]

"but to their credit, they were good because they sunk in the hours to get good." is a piss poor argument, because so did the other players who did not play CV. This is a team game, and the fact that one player can "get good" and then win by virtue of being good (more or less independently of the other 23 players) says a lot about how broken the RTS CVs were. I liked playing them, but they were much less fair than the current CVs. Both iterations are dogshit though.

[@Smenkhaare]

I feel what you are writing as well. CV's were and can be destabilizing forces in the game. A good CV player can dominate the game, like no one else. CV's came to their power during WWII and they are savage platforms of death.@@samuelhakansson6680

[@gazzcorp]

I played the game for 6 years before giving the game away earlier this year as an Aussie playing on the Asian server, I watched my clan go from 30 active players to now 5 and everyone I talk to it's the same bad match making and up tiering. It has always been there and would happen 1 out of 3 games, but now every single game. Last time I played, 8 games in a row up tiered by 2 and lost 7 of them and always have same problem 6 on enemy team has win rates of above 55% and 5000 games, your team have 6 players with 300 games and low 40-45% win rate and games over in 8 mins. That and the subs killed it for me but i still enjoy watching your videos Sea lord keep it up.

[@tdbraun6837]

Sub torps need to have a long arming time so that DDs have a chance to attack them up close, as should be the case. Right now, for a DD to go attack a sub he will have to dodge two torp salvos fired point blank at him before he can even deploy his depth charges. Very difficult. Right now, what happens is an un-spotted sub shotguns and sinks a BB, and this is how the team learns the approximate location of the Sub threat. Players ping out the location and say "Sub there", hoping someone else on the team will do something about it. But what can they do, to steer towards that sub is extremely dangerous, even for a DD which was designed to counter subs in real life. So, one sub can bully an entire flank of the enemy team. Combine that with nerfing the homing torps and periscope-depth speed and enhance the utility of hydro against subs might perhaps balance them to make the game playable. I've been playing this game a longer than SLM but I've cut way back because subs are fun-killers. When I play I tend to play in the lower tiers to avoid so much subs.

[@Hugh-sg9js]

skill issue

[@jackaubrey8614]

@@Hugh-sg9js You obviously play subs yes? For you to accuse anyone else of "skill issues" is a bit arrogant don't you think? The fact is, subs require far less "skill" to play than just about any other type - I know 'cos I've played them. Yes they can die very quickly, but even a tyro sub-driver soon learns the best ways to avoid that AND rack up big (easy) scores. Frankly, the biggest grouse I have against subs is that they are far too easy to look good in.

[@b.b.5240]

My big issue with Subs is that most torpedo ranges on Subs are 10+ km while most battleships ASW is are less than 10 km. THAT IS NO DEFENSE, COUNTER AGAINST SUBMARINES.

[@freetolook3727]

The old CVs may have been more dangerous to surface ships but they did run out of planes and were vulnerable to be sunk unlike the new CVs which never run out of planes and can blow your low hit point ship out of the water with their secondaries.

[@elmercy4968]

Old CVs also were almost unkillable unless the player made a mistake.

[@broccanmacronain457]

As a submariner you are correct they are boats. I was one of the ones yearning for the introduction of Subs but not as they are in any of the setups that we have seen so far.

[@Smenkhaare]

Submarines were much better in that Chinese game Steel Ocean. They were not overpowered at all.

[@peterblum613]

Same. Nothing wrong with subs in concept. They just have to behave a little more like real ww ii subs. I just dont get why they must have all sorts of weird Rube Goldberg characteristics.

[@oldmangames9292]

I was expecting you to mention the effect subs have on the meta. How when in a BB and you know there is one on your flank pinging you, your only real defence is to back off. Same for a light cruiser. And how DDs are outspotted by them, causing them to play really passively - which makes BBs even more nervous as they have no DD spotting or screening, so they back off. DDs can't hunt them with depth charges, since subs are just too fast (and it's fairly suicidal for DD). Cvs make everyone huddle, subs make everyone run.. It's no wonder why it's so passive right now.

[@tonyennis1787]

Agree with this is general. Certainly the best defense against subs is to run from them. They hold all the cards if they play well at all. If you're in a slower US battleship you're screwed.

[@xxxthwagdrakexxx4672]

If subs had wire guided torpedoes that requires you to ping the whole time before the wire is cut off to get the homing they have right now (and nerfing the guidance to stop working within 0.7 kms regardless) and overall nerfing subs speed + giving most dds a submarine finding hydro would actually balance the game vs subs

[@Hugh-sg9js]

subs are already quite balanced, you just have to know how to counter them

[@baconbliss4796]

​@@Hugh-sg9jstell me that again when I go to play my many batteries that a full broadside salvo can not kill a sub with correct aiming and can get shotguned by a sub that can invisibly get within 2km of my where it's basically impossible to dodge his torso in most battleships and cruisers given how fast sub torps and and god forbid they left click on your boat

[@Hugh-sg9js]

@@baconbliss4796 you have hydro and spotting aircraft, yes shotgunning is somewhat OP but not that extreme. Try playing a sub and see how quickly you die without a single torp hit, any kind of replay you see with lots of torp hits is usually just lots of skill and allot of luck. Anyhow, i killed plenty of subs, got killed by them many times, but im not crying and leaving the game over it lmao.

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

@@Hugh-sg9js Joined May 19 2023 WG making accounts again.

[@xxxthwagdrakexxx4672]

@@Hugh-sg9js youre a fucking tool to think that submarines have any real counterplay without charging in at least 5 kms away with hydro active and 2.5 km if they go to full depth which is borderline suicidal when there's 10+ ships in one side and half of them get to farm you for free. Literally the one ship class that hard countered subs in in real life and earned its name as a destroyer (as in torpedo boat destroyer which is what a submarine is as it doesn't have lifeboats like a regular warship would) and almost none of them had hydro in game for some dumbfuck reason when in reality nearly all of them did and could terrorize them due to subs being slower than literal battleships.

[@K3NT97]

After casually playing for like 7/8 years, I've finally got majority of the tech tree's to Tier 9, but with the introduction of T11's in every single game is horrendous to play, always low tier, it genuinely feels like Tier 7 to Tier 9 again, so demoralizing to play

[@HybridRenoII]

Loved the game, but... *I LOATHE SUBS!* That said I still play, but I don't have the fun I had. And I agree on Passive play, it bores me to no end. I'm way to aggressive for Passive play. Great video as always Sea Lord.

[@janboen3630]

I get killed pretty often when playing higher tier random battles. Basically I hate hanging back and snipe so I get closer (I have no or few long range snipers anyway) and then you get shot up while the rest stay at a safer distance. So I avoid playing random as much as possible and play ranked and brawl a lot. A pity that no stats are kept on Brawls. What I hate most though are those ships that are so "broken". Speed boat submarines and HE spammers that keep spewing shells every two or three seconds. My win rate is around 44% for random while for ranked it's close to 50%. I'm a new player and have been playing since March 23. I'm also an older player (born 1964).

[@dejanstankovic570]

Congrats for your win rate. It is a bad win rate, but for your age it is impressive. Have fun and keep up with the game changes! XD

[@xxxthwagdrakexxx4672]

Honestly if they gave you an option to lay ransoms but smaller team sizes (with restrictions to either 1 cv or 1 sub) it'd be fine

[@xxxthwagdrakexxx4672]

@@OneDayOld you can play bbs close range just not at first when everyone still has full hp and is gung ho bloodthirsty. Once your team gets picks and people start dying you can start to close in without evaporating as long as your team supports you

[@Joey_Liu]

Spot on Sealord! Fantastic video on everything! Really wish they add more historical ships like Prince of Whales or the Johnston.

[@justins6134]

I quit the game when subs were added. I really don’t like being spotted by things that I can’t really counter, such as planes, and subs just add one more layer of getting killed because I’ve been spotted by something that I can’t really escape or counter. I mainly enjoyed playing light cruisers, and getting plane or sub spotted at an inconvenient time can just get you immediately deleted.

[@thebean8255]

I left the game after playing for years and spending way too much money on the game. What did it for me was the continuous power creep of carriers. There was just simply nothing more frustrating that interacting with carriers that could damage you, but you fundamentally could not damage them back. Was killed in many great games as a result of just being harassed by a carrier I had no opportunity to shoot back at.

[@Rancor149]

You have really helped me get back into this version of the game as I have been away on legends since it released. Loving the content, keep it up!

[@TheDraknoth]

As a main DD player I can't say that I enjoy CVs and Subs because I don't like being spotted but I've learned to play with and against them even if they can sometimes make my games very difficult. The matchmaking is for me the main issue but on the NA server their isn't that many players at the time that I play so I have to do with whom is connected at that time. If the enemy CV wants to make my life miserable well good for the enemy team but at the mean time if my CV doesn't want to give cover while I ask it several times... Well most likely I'm going to die, my team won't have vision on my flank and we are going to lose it. The most difficult is the matchmaking but also especially the fact that some players forget that this is a team game and that we have to play together and to communicate.

[@PuddingCh]

I had played this game for about 4 years or so, tolerating almost everything that had happened in the game The matchmaking was always an issue, especially once you started getting better at the game The meta was just something I accepted (plus it was always kinda funny if you played a non-meta ship and got in close to a sniping player, who promptly panics and has no idea what to do) The CVs were something that I sort of disliked in the beginning, then outright hated once I got better The submarines were the last straw; after their introduction, I slowly faded away from the game and moved over to World of Tanks I wonder if the aggressive monetisation is due to a (suspected) drop in the playerbase count so Wargaming are trying to make up for lost profits in a different manner.

[@alexandrespengos6748]

I actually did the exact opposite with WoT lol : meta is fun to play around especially when you take something like the KV2 (fun tank all around with the derp gun), artas are just more annoying now that they've been change and added the stun (although now they can't one shot you from 3k HP at least), but what broke me where the wheel line, completely powercreeps every single light tank in the game. WoWS might not be better but I'm still learning the game so I'm still having decent fun. Fak CVs though

[@PirateAndArmadaCo]

You went from WoWS to WoT, the most Pay to Win game WG has? At least WoWS doesn't have "gold ammo" then nerfs regular ammo to the point you get 0 dmg if you don't use gold.

[@jameslee8003]

I played WOT for ten years. Match Maker was/is flawed like WOW in that it does not take into account player skill levels. Also as a non premium player, I'd end up on the losing side of a match more often than not. I lost more than ten matches is a row multiple times. Never once in ten years was I on the winning side ten times in a row. Best was eight. As for WOW. Limit sub torp count and slow them down as others have said. also let spotting planes actually spot ships.

[@lambda2857]

For those who might be wondering, the very first WoW submarines came out in the annual 2018 Halloween special operation.

[@brunopimentel3782]

I remenber that, and wargaming said at that time they would never had subs in to the game because it would hurt the gameplay balance, has they were already having trouble with cvs, but still did anyway.

[@milos-7712]

1. Subs 2. CVs 3. Subs 4. CVs 5. Subs Bonus: Subs and CVs

[@swiftf0x]

As a DD player, I like that the depth charge racks rendered on my ships are now active. What I don't like is not having the capability to locate the sub, when I get close enough, while I'm hunting them down. Surface ships have automatic detection at 2 kilometers...even through islands. But that's not the case for Submarines. I want passive sonar, or hydro-acoustic search to work not only on torpedoes, but also submarines. Imagine cruisers working with DD's to hunt down Subs? Also, the short window DD's get to dodge submarine torps is maddening.

[@shawnsteene5499]

In the US Navy, submariners refer to subs as "boats" -- this is a hold-over from way back in the day when submarines were less than 150 feet long and were therefore classified by the USN as "boats." That terminology has stuck even though modern submarines are substantially longer than 150ft. (The Los Angeles class sub I was on in the 1990s was 362 feet long....even the WWII era Gato and Balao class were something like 311 feet long.) So...submariners call them boats and you should not feel bad about doing so as well...

[@rovelfox7832]

As a DD main that also enjoys certain subs, I think there's probably more than one way to go about tweaking them to make them more engaging and less frustrating for both the sub and non-sub player. I think reducing the underwater speed is an option, but I think by itself that only becomes more frustrating for the sub player without making it any better for the surface player. What I think should be the focus is making the more passive long range pinging less viable and forcing subs to actually get into the fight. The way I'd do this would be to reduce homing torp range and speed, with the conventional torps keeping their range and speed. I'd also make the homing pings easier to read for surface players because you really have to know how subs work to actually make any sense of it. What I think this would encourage is more dynamic sub gameplay where the sub player has to get in somewhat close using their stealth granted by limited dive time to pull off a few attack runs before pulling back to recharge said dive time. Homing torps are an option that comes with more risks and careful planning on using them. As it is now, you just stay outside airstrike range on the surface launching trans-atlantic homing torps, which is boring to play and annoying to play against. Additionally, I think the sub surveilance consumable is really flawed. It's basically 1 minute radar that's on all but one sub in the game and the fact that german subs get the best version of it on top of the best torps, stealth, speed, and dive time. I think the German subs should lose the consumable altogether and be more focused on surface ships. Make the German subs the surface ship hunters, the British subs the anti-sub specialists, and the American subs the more versatile angry brawlers; all of which there's a bit of historical precedent for.

[@keeganpolley1156]

All of this, and adding a greater arming distance for the "shotgunning" problem and I see submarines genuinely being enjoyable by all. The historical precedence is what I enjoy the most out of these changes, It actually makes sense (:

[@rovelfox7832]

@@keeganpolley1156 I agree a bit more arming distance couldn't hurt.

[@scottag3597]

As someone who was in the Royal Navy I can confirm that submarines are referred to as BOATS.

[@tonepilot]

Push up early and here’s what happens: 1) DDs launch hundreds of torps then sit in smoke spamming HE; 2) HE spamming cruisers hide behind islands waiting for you to push; 3) Subs hang with the DDs and well, torps; 4) CVs look for targets pushing and everyone jumps on that one ship, etc, etc, etc.

[@UberHypnotoad]

I don’t mind the matchmaking, if you win with the odds stacked against you then all the more glory. Random does not mean equal. Some people just don’t know how statistics work. Plus, no one complains when it’s stacked in their own favor.

[@boydy7351]

I played a game just today in the Austin, a good AA CL. Enemy Malta destroyed me with 2 flights. Took 20k in the first attack, I had priority sector and DFAA running, and then second flight, gone. About 90secs of game. Was using a red or blue credit and free so boost as well. Just altF4’d…… was fucking fuming.

[@satyrangel2730]

2:27 5.Matchmaking 8:23 4.The Meta 13:12 3.Agressive Monetization 16:56 2.CVs 23:34 Submarines

[@garystew2077]

Currently I think CVs are worse for the game compared to subs simply because of all the spotting they can do. If WG nerfs the spotting that would be a good start to balancing them. For subs the biggest change I would make is that DDs should have a 1-2 km proximity detection at any depth so subs can't just easily sneak past.

[@tonyennis1787]

For spotting, there just needs to be a time delay before the information is shared with the team. The closer your ship is to the ship that was spotted, the sooner you see the spotted ship. Currently, if a ship is spotted, it is instantly seen from all over the map.

[@garystew2077]

@@tonyennis1787 This is a great idea. Let's hope WG implements something like this

[@krzysztofmakuch139]

You know what kills a sub? CV. Sub melts from any he hit close to it, which is quite ridiculous. If a plane sits atop of you - you're either screwed in the 1st 2 minutes of the game or you exhaust your batteries. And it's really easy to predict where the enemy sub is early on.

[@cnknguyen]

I went from a BB main into subs when they reworked CVs and I got tired of being a punching bag. It takes one form of cancer to kill another form of cancer.

[@PeterVanderKley]

It's interesting to me having only started playing the past couple months to hear these issues from someone who has played for so many years. I never experienced the game without subs, so I don't know any different. The game seems like a fun balance of grinding the tech tree and going through the special events. Hopefully these issues have been and are being addressed!

[@usiseazombie]

I still enjoy coop and operations. Randoms are just not fun the way people play. It's a hell scape of island hugging and torpedoes

[@nfthero4280]

I just started playing last week. Really enjoying this game now.

[@cody8217]

Matchmaking doesn't go off of your win rate. If you read the patent that WarGaming has on the matchmaking system, you are assigned a battle rating based on your performance. It uses the RNG algorithm to balance your damage and performance each game, just like Call of Duty does. If you're overperforming, it uses RNG to attempt to balance you out so you're not seal clubbing as hard. You'll get more overpens, ricochets, torpedo protection hits, etc. and less fires, floods, etc., or if you're underperforming or struggling, it'll buff these attributes. This all influences your battle rating. But the whole thing is skewed because you can have a bunch of super unicums, unicums, etc. on one team, and a bunch of 30%-40% win raters on the other team, and it's all based on the hidden battle rating that we can't see. It only does so because they might have had a really good game and their battle rating went up, or the unicums had a bad game and theirs went down. It's a complex equation.

[@Crosshair84]

There's no evidence that they use this patent though.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

In German, nowadays really big subs are called U-ships instead of U-boats, so as far as we are concerned, they can be both.

[@snorkman2]

I don't mind subs in most cases, I play utility cruisers mainly and with tools like Hydro, Radar and especially RPF, I kill a lot of subs without too much fuss. If I die it's usually my own fault and in most cases it's not the sub that kills me as opposed to his team mates. CV's on the other hand.. way too much say on the outcome of the battle, limit their planes and give them manual aim secondaries (Play like US BB Hybrids but with small secondary guns).

[@jackaubrey8614]

Agreed that planes should be limited but, given the number of auto-secondaries used in other surface types not sure that forcing manual control on CV's would be completely fair?

[@scarletseq]

+- 2 tier matchmaking is insane, it should only be +- 1 tier max

[@jamesjeffley4926]

Here's one for me: the grind / reward ratio. There seems to be an awful lot of grinding for a reward that doesn't measure up. Like receiving 3.1M potential damage to get 2 expendable camouflages. And we still have to spend credits to use the camos!

[@ilkkaiisalo4720]

I'm fairly new to the game, but can recognise all of these as issues. They will probably not make me quit as I haven't known the game as anything else but I would like to see some changes. 1. Subs, I would like that sub pings would light up the sub if hydro is running. That way they cannot just spam pings and homing torps but need to take their time. 2. CV, should be vulnerable to subs and all planes should drop all ordnance in one go so that you can try turn without a guaranteed 2. Strike and they should do similar damage to DD 3. Why is everything so expensive, I would love to buy premium ships but when they cost €15-60 per ship and a year of premium account is similar €60 it's like buying a game for one ship. Make it €2-5 per ship and I will buy several as will others I'm interested to hear if my ideas are controversial to the more established player base

[@broccanmacronain457]

The changes you mention for the subs I think will make a world of difference.

[@octaviusmorlock]

I think matchmaking would be mostly solved if there wasn't double uptiering. In the few rounds I've been in where it's just- say- T9-10s it usually gets really close. A weird alternative I've thought of would be "equal-additive" tiers. E.g.: you have a five v five: Team ones ship tiers are: 8, 8, 7, 6, & 5. Team twos ship tiers are: 10, 9, 5, 5, & 5. If you add up the tiers, both teams equal 34. Now, *I know this would need a lot of testing and balancing.* But, it might be interesting to see how it'd work.

[@BSoDexe]

tier 10 just mops the team without tier 10, simple

[@tonepilot]

I just finished a game where the CV dropped torp after torp, after torp on me. Got me to 20% health before too long. Someone killed him but all his launched planes continued to target me long after his death. He got me in the end. Prevented me from doing anything useful.

[@Trapster99]

Subs! I am a BB driver. I can't counter subs with any effect, it is a guessing game. Some subs outrange me with their torpedoes. No way to prevent them from cutting my BB down from afar. And the worst thing is being shotgunned by a sub and never knowing he is there.

[@belisarius7880]

submarines are certainly frustrating. I dont understand why they're so fast. using germans cruisers with ship dropped depth charges makes it nearly impossible to get in range to use those depth charges. thats without mentioning how hard it is to locate subs. Thats without mentioning the amount of damage output subs can have. they need to lose something, and the most fair answer seems to be cutting their speed in half. because as they are now subs can race dd's and its just too much.

[@DarkepyonX]

Great vid and list!! On #3 I notice that console and pc gamers in US and Europe are different than majority of gamers and mobile gamers . We just ignore the stores and mindlessly click x on pop-ups. Fun note , Blitz version has CV RTS style but balanced-ish . Ships like Kaga , Enterprise are pure hell to fight if nobody in a AA ship . Funny note: War Thunder Mobile dropped and they have Subs in game 😂😂😂

[@perhentzepetersen9310]

One big issue is destroyers!!! I only play BB (I suck in anything else), but as soon as I see a destroyer I can do nothing. I spot him too late and when I hit him with big guns, it has NO effect, and before I can reload, I am faced with a WALL of torpedos! The secondaries are useless too...

[@user-kd8uh8zc5q]

yes i would like to know. how do you make your map smaller??

[@dumuntai]

Submarines have always been referred to as boats. Anyone who says otherwise, never served on one.

[@littletweeter1327]

what pains me most is the state of battleships. theyre practically unplayable. everything is designed to farm you, your guns overpen everything so you cant punish cruisers (supposed to be your job), insanely overpowered cruisers make bb's obsolete. bb's are just hp pinatas for everything else. also signals. give me fking signals. or up the amount you get per bundle to 100.

[@loganh2692]

And this is why I jumped ship(literally) to legends. It still feels unfair at sometimes but it’s a lot more manageable then when I was on PC

[@viper592]

The reason I rarely play random battles anymore. Tier 8 subs that can chase down a 40knot DD. A dd that doesn't have hydro, needs to have the option of Disengaging. My Shima got nuked because a sub was able to stay withing 5.6km of me, while i was trying to flee a flank. It shouldn't be possible.. period for a sub to do such.

[@piervisser3121]

I play a lot of co-op and I notice bots almost invariably chosing to go nose-in towards me (as in 0-degree nose-in), regardless of how many teammates they give flat broadside to, especially in lower tiers, so while I'm still lining up my guns, there's 2 BBs in perfect position who can delete said bot before my rounds are halfway. As a player. there's little that gives more satisfaction of course. Or, you get spawned as a BB with a DD and the fast, torpedo-heavy Cruiser that'll sink whatever is on your side before you're even at full speed. I really hope they'll bring back Asymmetric battles, that at least gave some more chance to actually do something, without the toxicity of Random battles.

[@BadassRockets]

Did you recommend that the planes not be able to spot ships? I want to be sure I understood you before I would say you said that.

[@dterror6070]

It's funny how WG claimed subs weren't planned to be in the game...and yet right from the start there were submarine controls listed in the settings.

[@tsuaririndoku]

Actually back in the RTS CV Era. Yes, CV does a lot more damage and can single handly kill you if they will. But, if one of the player decided to make an AA build, it Will completely shutdown the CV for the entire game. AA back in the day were extremely punishing if you make an AA build, 2 Des Moines can just area denial the CV to the ground. Or Full AA Cancer like 3 Atlantas that also apply the same effect. What I’m trying to say is that, CV back in the day is a very good ship when using it right while not being broken if someone decided to make an AA build. Also, back then CV less annoying thanks to Fighter Squadrons that will help your teammates take down enemy planes as well which in current state of WOWs doesn’t even have that, or atleast quater of it used to be. Again it’s all come back to AA. AA in the current state is nothing but fireworks at this point. I do wish we have the AA like back in the RTS era where AA is just very strong. (BTW during RTS era, Hood have ridiculous AA, despite being a Tier VII ship it can squad wipe a Tier X aircrafts from Midway, if the AA Defense is active with AA Build, Hood can never being touched by any Aircrafts at all. What players wants is not the RTS CV to come back, but an AA during RTS Era where it does killing planes. Oh and back then, CVs has limited aircrafts if you ran out of planes, that’s all of them. You will be a floating junk once you don’t have anymore planes.

[@WVGato]

Honestly, I think homing torpedoes should be totally gotten rid of. As stated in other places and videos, the only way a submarine had to engage another submarine was if it caught it on the surface or got very luck as it was submerging/running at periscope depth. Increase the ability for submarines to spot other submarines so other team members can then attack the submarine, but remove homing torpedoes and make submarines use nothing but unguided torpedoes, as they would have done during the rough timeframe this game is meant to represent. I would say, for proper balancing, reload and battery times should be increased. Submarines could stay underwater for extended periods, but as stated that was for evasion or sneaking up on targets. Let them have a longer battery time, but they they have to come up to periscope depth to attack. Also, increase their reload of torpedo time to one in line with destroyers. Also, many people complain about hydro acoustic search not being able to detect submarines. This I can live with, as I imagine that being more like listening with a passive sonar versus using active pings to hunt for targets. I do think for hydro acoustic search to be used by any ship, the ships speed should affect its range and effectiveness, as even today a passive sonar is only effective when moving slowly. A fast moving ship has trouble hearing anything since the noise of water rushing past the hall blocks out the ability to hear much of anything else, from what I have read. That being said, I think certain classes of ships, such as destroyers and maybe some light cruisers, should be given an active sonar search, like submarine surveillance for surface ships, for use in finding submarines at any depth. This is something a large majority of destroyers had anyways, and would bring destroyers back into the roll of escorts and submarine hunter/killers.

[@jathenmoors1]

For me, it's the lack of ability to mute the ingame chat. There is so much profanity, blame gaming, instant calling out of people with low win rates, etc. very toxic to anyone just trying to have a good time.

[@williebrort]

I'm a beta tester and believe me. Playing the old CV's was way more fun. I'm really into the RTS genre and the CV's were what kept me in the game. After the rework I stopped playing. Now I'm back, trying the subs.

[@emilycarranzacalderon9220]

Hello all the captains, you missed 2 more notes. One is how toxic the game chat is... especially tier 8, 9 and 10 players.... if you play badly... they report you, if you don't play like them, they report you... that's why in my case. I only play tier 5 to 7... the players are calmer...

[@brett76544]

old CVs, in a Lexington and focus on a Yamy. Launch all flights, set fighters to protect the attack. Send bombers in to get a fire, let them repair, send second in. Then to finish it off send in the torps. Then dead Yamy.

[@tmarcus309]

Shotgunning is not a problem. As the tier 10 sub that hasnt been spotted by dd's other subs or gee.. hydro for the whole match pops up 3 clicks from your port or starboard and unloads all the torps into you and dives. If actual consumables already in the game worked for subs the way they should, and they was closer to the actual speeds. I cant remember what sub it was, but I spent 5 minutes chasing it in my Agir and it just stayed ahead of me. CV's have my own place of hate too . I won't even play one except in co-op

[@bcfuerst]

High tier just has a massive spotting problem. One team ends up without radar cruisers or with only gun boat DDs or with bad DDs in general and loses their DDs in the first 5 minutes. The only way to come back from that is if the other team overpushes or chases a Hindenburg for 10 minutes with 5 ships. Otherwise its just snowballing out of control from that point on. CVs can impact that massively by harassing enemy DDs early but subs are largely inconsequential. Subs can't push a flank and they can't stop a push because they have one rack of torps thats pointed straight forward. You can't kill a fleeing enemy and if you're forced to run you can't shoot at someone pushing in. The only meaningful way they can act on a flank is by breaking up stalemates by flanking Island campers. People don't tend to like them because they can't fight directly them but you can always run and running them over is a viable strategy for everything but tier 10 subs. Monetization is not a problem as long as they don't start selling power which they don't do. The grid is also bearable unlike games like warthunder. Who cares if they are milking people that want to be milked.

[@hansernens4108]

I would enjoy the game much more if the matchmaker would take into account how many times you got uptiered. I wouldn't mind being uptiered if I was then assured that in my next match I would not be. The worst experience is losing game after game because you are uptired every time and the higher tier ships on your side do not pull their weight.

[@RiversJ]

The reason i came Back to warships was them adding submarines, was the Only reason i played steel ocean instead. And thematically it makes absolutely no sense to have a surface battle in ww2 with carriers and all without submarines. If they need more balancing then it ought to happen in relation to how to fight against them not by making them shit, the nerf hammer due to whining is the fastest way to lose players.

[@tonyennis1787]

11:46 goofing up... Agree, where the definition of "goofing up" is getting too close to a ship you cannot see and then being burned down, torpedoed, or airstriked until you're dead. There are way too many cases of ships having no counterplay against opponents.

[@DarkepyonX]

I find it funny on the Blitz version, the tier difference in matches is +/- 1 which shoooould make things better but there is zero chat or team communication really so it's JUST as messed up 😂

[@tonyennis1787]

I can't resist, besides... algorithm Matchmaking. It's stacked. Premium players seem to get favorable matchmaking. And notice that the winning team usually has more people with ranks. Now, anyone can be a rank 10 in the Cardboard league. But it seems like anyone with the desire to play ranked also has the attitude required to win, in general. You can see rankings the post-game screens. it's an 80% win indicator, and the way the players are allocated really can't happen by chance.

[@sighclop7827]

Great Vid, Great content. I agree matchmaking is trash. Went 0 for 8 yesterday and watched team after team melt and in the end was farmed down in seconds. A few matches the enemy team didn't lose a ship and won "go figure". I feel the source code is a bit sus and in a lot of battles gives preference in a match. Too many times my guns all of a sudden couldn't hit anything. CV's? whatever. As far as Dub ships? A fool and his money are soon parted. Lastly Subs. Subs were hardly a battle element back in the day. Between invisible DD's and high speed torp tubes racing around the map making it impossible to play the game as intended. How about spotter planes that actually spot? Instead of being a range mod? That would help with off balance matchmaking, and ships who have no electronic warfare "what a joke". They should work on balance for a while instead of new content and quit trying to fix things with a few nerfs.

[@Whykikamoocow]

That's a brilliant summary of the way things are...play co-op and you'll never lose oof

[@larryeiler9281]

notice that there are now many more smaller targets per battle, dds and subs are low scoring targets, so average battle earnings are lowered.

[@stefanocrosazzo3262]

Actually no, exp and credits yield are tied to the PERCENTAGE dmg you dealt to an enemy. If you scored a 6k hit on a DD with 8k HP, you'll get way more than scoring the same 6k hit on a BB with 60k HP.

[@scottmccombs2257]

This game needs skill based matchmaking. Good players against good players and lower tier players against lower tier players with continuous updating based on your end match XP, kill rate.

[@Ilias_Goddess]

in co op torps are way overpowered, only fun you can have in operations now. lets hope they change halloween ops a bit to be a bit more challenging cant imagine how people want rts cv back with that damage potential with torps for subs they should add battery drain factor on certain speeds underwater

[@shironee_2384]

22:06 That change is BS. They do won't replace, but the attacking planes often wouldn't getting attacked by AA dps and only get attacked by few flak bubbles. Not to mention that russian CV completely ignore this mechanic and WG still gave attacking rocket planes complete immunity from damage when they're start strafing with MG

[@Kvomii]

Yup. WG essentially reverted the change by making the attacking squadron invincible, which is even worse than the old way. Typical WeeGee moment...

[@thiccboi4157]

I got back into wows recently and im really enjoying it, nice and relaxed all though i do have issues. Way to many events, I used to be a collector in world of tanks and if i did that in this game id go bankrupt, too much stuff constantly and too many reskins. thats not really an issue though, my main problems is submarines. I dont care if they are hard to play they are not fun to play against ever.

[@thiccboi4157]

Nevermind CVs are actually worse. Had multiple games now which showed why we always hated them, 0 counterplay to a tier 11 cv just targeting you all game.

[@freetolook3727]

#5 I spreadsheeted this years ago and found it to be absolutely true. The side that won had a better average team win rate, battles played, ships sunk and average damage.

[@TheFman2010]

I play more tier V or even lower tier ships than high tier ships, because there is a smaller chance of meeting subs in matches. Also, lower tier matches seem to be faster paced and more exciting.

[@Denryuu0]

D'awww, I remember the RTS days with fondness. It was amazing. You got to play a completely different game against everyone else XD

[@aznfoo]

Is it just me or has there also been a major influx of South America players too?

[@darkorbit84]

Its not only the things you mention about mm, also a huge thing is allot off tier 8 an 9 are outdated and not even Design to go against newer tier x and super ships.

[@hideshisface1886]

Pretty much spot on. Especially the monetisation, CVs and Subs. CVs got too many advantages - basically immune to subs and fires, which is absolutely stupid. A semi-competend CV player is also virtually immune to DDs. There is effectively no counterplay. Planes are vastly more agile than a ship is. CV can attack from beyond normal visual range, effectively bypassing rules that all other ships abide by. And the only counter is passive damage envelope of AA, which is never enough to actually deter the attack. But I do disagree that old CVs were worse for the game. Yes, the RTS CV was absolutely deadly, BUT there was a caveat - a CV was the only class with effectively limited ammo - the strikecraft did not regenerate like they do now. This also meant that a CV could and would run out if they were reckless with their planes. This made them balanced - because while other ships always risk their limited health, CV stays back and doesn't - but they risked their capability to strike. CVs currently in the game basically never run out of planes, unless you are flying them over defensive AA cooldowns on purpose. Subs - they do follow the same principle as Carriers. It is yet another class that plays by different mechanics. You have going dark with diving. You have homing on torps. You have shotgunning. You have insane speed over what they're supposed to have - both on ships and torps alike. And unless the sub messes up, finding it is a matter of guesswork. It is the same thing as with artillery and wheeled vehicles in World of Tanks. Why are these hated in the game? Because they play by different rules. Imagine playing old-school Doom deathmatch, and suddenly Mario shows up with ability to jump, crouch, and lob fireballs and get invincibility stars.

[@AndrewCZ47]

"CVs are OP and have too many advantages." Seiichi Itō, April 7, 1945

[@miep6463]

Exactly my opinion

[@RabidTazmanianChihuahua]

I would be fine with homing torpedos IF they had their own mitigation button instead of having to use the regular repair. But... at least they don't hit as hard.

[@coling3957]

if playing a bb you can't avoid them - i played Sinop 5 times today and each time was simply chased by homing torps while our lazy dds would do nothing to try spot or attack them ) its impossible to do anything when there are2 subs in vacinity and they are firing torps at 10km homing in on ship too slow to outrun or dodge them

[@clmwrx]

​@coling3957 it's not easy to hunt them in dds. Try it sometime.

[@RabidTazmanianChihuahua]

@@clmwrx You're right about that. I have a much easier time hunting them in my BBs than in a DD.

[@jackaubrey8614]

@@coling3957 Hunting high-tier subs in a DD is a form of suicide. He'll just wait 'till the last second and nuke you at point-blank range.

[@RPGTKingpin]

I disagree on the points made regarding CVs; Yes, RTS CVs when played well were more immediately lethal than the post-rework iterations. But there were a lot more things they had to take into account. IIRC, they weren't immune to detonations. They didn't have any special treatment regarding fires, and while on fire they could not operate their aircraft. They weren't immune to floods, either. Their damage control was standard. Most importantly, AA mattered. A well spec'd AA cruiser could create a solid no-fly zone around itself and its allies, forcing the CV to risk getting totally deplaned if they wanted to kill ships within that area. And even non-AA cruisers like Hindenburg or Zao could, with the right build and Def AA, mount a respectable defence that the CV would have to approach very carefully to avoid bleeding heavily when attacking. A CV player's gameplay revolved around correct target selection, cautious approach angles, and excellent syncronisation and timing. These days almost all of that is gone. Some CVs don't even have to consider AA at all on their attack runs, because both the damage and range of AA has been completely neutered. Remember when DM had a nearly 10km AA bubble? And Hindy had about 7.8km? The range issue is another reason both CVs and subs are so toxic. Both classes can regularly attack a target without interacting with the weapons meant to counter them at all. With CVs, it's things like Nakhimov that can strike accurate from outside AA range. With subs, it's the fact that many of them have homing torps and pings that outrange the ASW of 80% of the ships they're likely to face. I don't think there's a single other element of gameplay that better demonstrates how toxic non-existent counterplay is for the game.

[@freetolook3727]

#7 Perfectly good ships nerfed subtlety. #8 "Tier 11" ships. #9 Your best ships being constantly bypassed by ships with newer and bigger guns. #10 RNG being unforgiving in certain battles then in next battle one salvo does 63,000 hit points and sinks ship.

[@foresterlogsontrucks4410]

I feel the over abundance of torpedo ships are becoming too plentiful. Once torps of relevance were Cv & DD based and BBs/CAs/CLs all had defensive torps. I think there is room for a few torp cruisers. Maybe a BB. But now with several long ranged torp cruisers, BBs, and subs; torpedos seem in excess.

[@user-ol5lj9wb1u]

it is not somehow my friend. the moment i got 51% the pain begun. Teams melted in 60 seconds. I was brutally toned down to 49% and it is still going on. Its real.

[@Apollyon-er4ut]

By the way, having a good friend who spent 20 years as submariner on 4 subs and a tender, they are "boats." Only surface vessels are "ships."

[@rememberstayangry2366]

Hybrid ships are a bigger problem than subs and cvs. Nothing is worst than being in a BB with 3 other players. The other team has a hybrid BB and you are trying to get caps. The ineffectiveness of AA is the other problem. A group of planes should not be able to fly though two cruisers and still land a 10k+ hit to a BB. Before the cv rework. A cv had to hunt for more isolated targets. The next issue is the grind. If you are a casual player and play 10 matches a day. You use 20% economic boosters. It takes forever to get tier 9 or 10 ship.

[@petewilkinson1832]

Subs: 1a) Homing torps - remove the subs ability to regain a lock-on after removal by use of a DCP. 1b) Prevent subs from firing homing torps before having a lock-on. 2) Equalise the range of the subs sonar ping and a ship's ASW plane range. 3) Support CVs - give them a dedicated ASW flight capable of dropping not only DCs but Sonar Buoys. 4) Ships DCPs are too overworked now and need a buff to cool-down times. 5) The close range game, the numbers of torps going back & forth in the early/mid game has to be a major factor in forcing BBs etc out of that space.

[@johnsmith-kd8br]

Prezent subs grom playing on div do two subs cant spawn next to each other

[@WellWornHack]

This is all well thought out and I would love to see it implemented.

[@AndrewCZ47]

Maybe some passive direction finding on DDs ? Like a DD can see direction to nearest sub within X kilometers, X being largest up to, say, 1/4 speed and decreasing when the DD speeds up (like RL sonar, noise of your own movement is a problem).

[@grayboats7741]

Subs, depends on players. Some DD's without sonar, why? A CC with ASW set up should get sonar as well. That said I got to be OK at hunting them with BB's, if it's got a decent turn rate. Also nothing to compare to. Sub's were in game when I started.

[@bumblebity2902]

Matchmaking issues are the same in the WOT

[@ruif1971]

A good cv player will "pick on you" for a series of reasons. But #1 reason is he sees you as a threat to winning,, you are a good player, you are in a dangerous ship to his teammates, etc. #2 you are a direct threat to him. #3 you are the easiest target aka away from the pact and have crappy as.

[@Pearlio]

As a CV main I love picking on an individual player. If you’re a destroyer, I’m coming AFTER YOU