Worst MMO Ever? - Neverwinter

[@FrankTheTank107]

How to enjoy Neverwinter: Step 1: Make a character you think looks & sounds cool Step 2: Level to Max Step 3: Stop playing. You've enjoyed everything that is enjoyable and you will forever continue chasing the same high.

[@hunterupton5809]

Accurate.

[@starwinter6845]

I played Neverwinter when it was in beta/just past full release. This was my experience and the experience of my friend group. We got to max level, realized there was NO end game content to be found, got bored, and dipped. We said we might return to it if that ever changed, but it didn't. Such a sad tale.

[@hoshiwrld]

@@starwinter6845 come back to neverwinter 🥲

[@youtubeisracistx]

@@starwinter6845 but its the type of game where you can meet new people and make friends 😁 i made great friends from this game

[@b.1099]

@@starwinter6845 Obviously it's not a single-player campaign game. Get educated.

[@Leahi84]

That was just sad. Josh sounded like he was legitimately hurting over breaking all this down and remembering what was.

[@NuclearSavety]

He re-defined the saying an-axe-to-grind ....

[@ArturoGarcia-zx3ov]

Is funy and sad at the same time realising it may be his first video where he didn´t show himself in his room to explain something with a cup

[@fartloudYT]

if we play a certain game long enough we all have some key game that is like that. watching it become abomination due to dev greed is a serious trip.

[@adoidont]

Because it was once the perfect MMORPG but now but now the game is a paywall at 36k IL. That and the new lvl 20 bs adventure.

[@shadowsage2636]

I know his feeling, having to tear down something you once loved because it went in a shit direction. i am currently feeling that way with a certain game i refuse to name now, it was great, now it's going to shit.

[@Part_time_Poe]

"New players aren't playing through your memories." Man I felt that.

[@Nerobyrne]

Yeah, I think that's why WoW finally died. It was a truly amazing experience at the start, but that time has passed. And I'm glad we're moving on. But, it will always have a special place in my heart, no matter what happens. Because it shaped part of who I am as a person, today.

[@DS-mv2lk]

@@Nerobyrne Runescape is the perfect example

[@TheParaxore]

@@DS-mv2lk yeah... OSRS is still a great game and has lots of players but it just doesn't hit the same in this day and age.

[@carterstrain9951]

@@DS-mv2lk rs3 has been growing for a while but slowly. I think osrs is slowly shrinking but definately healthy. I'm pretty sure most rs3 players are new compared to veteran osrs players that moved to rs3.

[@DS-mv2lk]

@@carterstrain9951 true but Runescape literally died in 2012. The experience will never be the same as before. Same for osrs

[@codyzipper]

"New players aren't playing through our memories" is genuinely the most painful sentence I've hard to digest in a long time. Having spent years playing games that eventually turned into cashgrabs, it hurts realising nostalgia is the only reason you still remember a game

[@cattkin6732]

Same. I yearn the good days of Shaiya and I just can't recommend it to my friends...

[@nocsu4850]

Yeah, that one hit me too.

[@shobo9596]

That's me with the old halo reach cosmetic system

[@johnsnow9307]

@@shobo9596 That is just Halo bro. That was the best sandbox multiplayer experience ever created. 343i and Microsoft butchered it into obscurity. Pretty neat feat considering it was once at the pinnacle of gaming.

[@backlogbuddies]

That was why I quit secret world legends. I loved the original but nope to legends

[@BamadeusTTV]

In my experience, every case of "it's good if you have friend to play with" actually translates to english as "It's not good, but I like hanging out with my friends.". I once broke a rib whilst drunkenly falling down a hill with friends. I look back and laugh because it was a fun evening populated with people I liked and filled with banter about said hill. That doesn't mean falling down a hill was fun, it just means I had good friends!

[@tranngockha6562]

I never thought of that....... Thank you

[@Lynxoln]

Thats a good way to think about it.

[@trenkys9327]

That is why most games nowdays are online. You friends make everything fun bcs you have fun with your friends not playing the game. Like Ghost Recon:Wildlands, I tought it's one of the best games in recent memory, we played it i group of 3. Then I booted it up solo...it sucks as hell

[@Webi]

I mean there are also games that are simply not fun even with friends So I still think it is something worth saying.

[@bloodred255]

I mean that goes for all games, the community is important. Not a statement I'd consider profound or worth mentioning.

[@MrPuglover55]

This man definitely deserves all the praise he gets. He took an mmo that he loved, one of his all time favorites and was able to show that it isn’t perfect and has flaws like every game he’s done before. 3 cheers for this absolute beast of a man

[@Trizzle2Jernts]

I find myself turning into a British person, nodding and gesturing in agreement to his valid points, when I'm watching the videos. The videos are fantastic and I'm starting to turn into one right now, reading through andwriting this comment. Only 3 cheers? Let's give Mr. Dryface all the cheers.

[@theflumpsydumpster7228]

Mr. Hayes here is the beastliest of beastly men. We stan

[@MrPuglover55]

#StanStrifeHays

[@tree4318]

we know he's cool calm down lol

[@MrPuglover55]

Never

[@LoudRevised]

This MMO review is like Josh revealing his origin story and his modus operandi.

[@guillermopena8412]

Game: Ok, how do I make sure I don't screw up? Josh: Easy. Here is a list of mistakes you shouldn't make. Game: But, this is a napkin that just say "Don't make the same mistakes Neverwinter did". Josh: Rule #1 is the most important one.

[@cattrucker8257]

JSH: Origins, a non-live-service prequel

[@visualsound2489]

@@guillermopena8412 Give this to Square Enix, If FF 14 goes down this road i'll be Completely disappointed

[@SpaceChloe]

@@visualsound2489 So far so good

[@Voltage256]

Seeing one of your favorite games just get turned into a cashgrab is one of the things that honestly hurt more than almost anything. And that "New players aren't playing through our memories" was just such a hard hitting line like that TKO'd my soul

[@LunatheDergbold]

Experiencing the same thing with yugioh rn

[@dieptrieu6564]

@@LunatheDergbold Sine when did yugioh ever not a cashgrab?

[@ieuanphillips8834]

No it's not lol, i started playing from day one on Xbox and stopped playing in 2018 due to work, came back in November to find my character was completely messed up, I spent alot of money in that game, all for nothing, everything that made it good has gone you can't even earn AD by yourself you basically have to buy it​@@hellsdecendents7162

[@bert949]

Cries in Overwatch tears.

[@DonJohn87_YT]

Lol your life must be quite easy which is a good thing 😅

[@Talsbynians]

The further the video goes, the sadder Josh’s voice gets. It’s like the earlier points in the game are closest to his fondness for the game, but as it goes on, it goes further and further away from that

[@gaigeiris9632]

the pain in his voice when he gives the final score really got me

[@BM03]

His voice starts stern, disappointed, maybe even angry. By the end, it's just so... defeated.

[@nezkeys79]

I get like this when talking about skyforge and Final Fantasy 11

[@BM03]

@@nezkeys79 Hey now, FF11 is still ongoing and in a pretty damn fine place.

[@nezkeys79]

@@BM03sorry but its a shadow of its former self. It may not be the pay to win trash like josh is talking about but the magic has gone. Asura is overun with bots, most linkshells are dead. The content has been progressively changed to be more like 14. I'm not saying 14 is good cause it is but it spawns the "it's just a worse 14" comments. Both 11 and 14 imo are still the best two mmos that exist imo.

[@heyfell4301]

Bro, i wasn't expecting to be depressed for a game i never even played. That's gotta be one of the saddest videos i've seen in a long time, you can almost hear the narrator's heart slowly breaking as he goes deeper and deeper into the problems of a product that used to be his passion.

[@mattsmith5421]

All old players felt this way this game was like crack for a lot of people. It was a terrible day when they announced combat changes to shite and dumbed down perks with group synergy removed

[@agentmaryland1239]

Imagine how sad you'd feel if you'd have gotten attached to this game and then watched it rot from the very core outward.

[@CyberGenesis1]

I've picked up and put down Neverwinter 3-4 times over 8 years. Every time i went back, entire systems of the game were massively reworked. This update to leveling only off quests? jesus... Oh no...i just got to the part where the Race is in a lockbox... I might cry

[@siegfriedlim5865]

@@CyberGenesis1 Damn. I remember playing it when it was in open beta probably. Circa 2014. You could actually grind Zen out by selling Astral Diamonds. I remember grinding and saving up until I had enough to buy some keys for the lockboxes. The Phoera I got from the lockbox would go on to be the thing I cherish most in the game, even though I haven't played it in years. There was a time where Control Wizard was so overpowered, we could be the DPS, CC, healing, and to an extent, tank. Five Control Wizards in a team? Hell yeah, let's go wreck some shit. The Christmas event was swell too, but then the nerfs came, and AD to Zen exchange disappeared for some reason. I quit (the level cap was still 60 back then), and when I came back, it was so different I couldn't even play anymore. Quit again only to come back for a third time, and by then, things have gotten so convoluted, I decided to never pick it up again. That was when campaigns were taking off, and the max level was 70. A shame. This game was the shit. It was my default game when I could not afford a good laptop or PC at all. It was the game I played after ditching Drakensang Online (which used to be good for me as well). It was something to take off my mind of the big exam I was going to have back in 2014. Greed and scummy monetization got the better of it. Well, at least I still have Path of Exile

[@cykeok3525]

Same, I've never even played this, yet the tale of a great game's descent into garbage just made me sad!

[@legion7]

As a former BIS endgame player what keeps me from this game is it's astral diamond hard cap. Making money in this game is one of the most terrible and difficult experiences I've had in any MMO. However, what made me quit the game is when they put my hard earned BIS artifact in the Zen store for real life money...I can't tell you how devastated I was and how cheated I felt that anyone could swipe their card and get the best artifact in the game that I worked so hard for. I quit that day.

[@user-cr8vy2hs7o]

I played RS from 2004 to 2012 and probably put 20,000 hours in, got 99s in all skills, then they just sold all the skills and exp for money. Was so infuriating.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

I quit when they changed the AD system the first time. I came back a few times. The lastest change to remove early game content that helped with game flow and learning your character (good for new players) and the AD to Zen issue that also exists on Xbox and I imagine every platform meaning that ftp Zen no longer exists (Not surprised, fuck cryptic), I realized that my first real MMO that I have olayed, will never be played by me again. And it sucks saying that. I don't mind working for things as a ftp cause it feels so much better earning it than paying for it (I work like this in Gacha games that I now play over mmos). But when there is no ftp way to get max gear and I HAVE to pay to get max enchants, and best in slot... I quit for good. In Gacha games, I don't spend on anything but monthly cards, refreshes, and most importantly, skins. Skins and subs were my main purchases in mmos so nothing has changed. I don't pay to get everything. And if I had to... I would just break my phone instead. Cryptic, fuck you

[@ragnarok7976]

Yep, negates all that work. Everybody who sees you have it is just gonna assume you bought it. Worst part is the more work it is to earn the more likely people are to assume you caved and bought it. In game purchases are always going to be a paradox.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

You could have seen that coming considering what they did with the epic dungeon keys.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

@@ragnarok7976 that just sounds like you're insecure about it. Don't hate the player, hate the game. The real game which is capitalism = infinite growth.

[@Tramelle]

The emotion in Josh's voice as he talks about the game that was such a big part of his life is so real and moving. Truly an inspired review.

[@TheLawliet10]

That honestly sounded like it hurt at the end. Thank you for making this Josh, and I'm sorry that greed destroyed a game you loved.

[@Gauron.]

I checked up how much might have changed in this game since Josh's video and the steam charts say that since the release of this video they around 1000 more players. If anything would been improved here it would show but no

[@katze2176]

happened to all of us

[@Idiosynchrosis]

Neverwinter should be one of the best MMOs out there, if it wasn't for the extremely predatory and scummy systems that hinders every step you take so you'll feel the urge to pay real money.

[@flamerollerx01]

Hey come on now, their shareholders need that 5th mansion! Don't be so damn cheap! /s

[@dale7326]

Newspaper media: Did you say I get a pay in it? Because if not, you’re on the news! Political agenda: Ah yes, the exploit, time for someone to play catch. We have identified for someone who can carry our messages! Byee Authorities: Well, that unfortunate, no housing for you. Good luck and comeback when you make more money to interest me…

[@aguy3953]

@@flamerollerx01 well your pfp and name checks out ....

[@flamerollerx01]

@@aguy3953 It's called sarcasm.

[@aguy3953]

@@flamerollerx01 it's also called leaving burns .

[@x50413]

I never expected to feel anything from an MMO review. But the way you delivered "This review score will cost you 3,500 Zen... out of 10." Just... that was painful to hear. Josh, this review is phenomenal. I have no doubts that it was hard to make, but you did an incredible job with it. I never played Neverwinter, and now I'm a bit sad that I didn't... back then. Not now.

[@Dom-pj9ft]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Mogojoegotube]

Hello Josh, I saw this video the day it came out, and put in a comment over a year ago saying that I agree with you but was hopelessly addicted to the game. I'd like to say thank you for publicizing the issues this game has with its economy and pay to win style. You opened my eyes to have the strength to stop playing and I can comfortably and happily say that I haven't played this game properly in over a year. I recently tried to install it and play it but simply didn't enjoy it and after only 10 minutes uninstalled the game again. This tells me and shows me that I'm properly done. I love never winter and it gave me some excellent memories with my friends, but I'm also happy that I dropped it and won't be returning. Once again thank you Josh, keep doing what you're doing.

[@PutYourQuarterUpGaming]

Talking about a game like how I think back on cigarettes. Never touch vapes/darts if thought that was bad. Cos ya…it’s not far off end of day when realize mostly mindset not the actual chemical dependency keeping from quitting.

[@Psyony]

I used to play it as well, and the worst thing was having my level reset back to 20. logging in after that update was gut-wrenching, knowing I'd have to reset all my points back in because the systems updated, then i got one two punched by suddenly being level 20, the class being a different name, and all the abilities being different. i genuinely logged out and in a few times, and contacted customer support thinking my game bugged and reset my level. 80 may not be true to D&D, but it's not like the damage numbers and health amounts are true to D&D, either. After chasing after the game downhill forever, that was the cliff that made me realize i didn't need to follow it into the chasm that was basically a full reset of the game i once knew. It's extremely sad to see them chase even harder into monetization now, but i understand where you're coming from. every now and again i log in as a bard just to screw around in the main hub and play songs, usually getting attention of a few passerby people before they inspect me and realize my gear is power level 1, then walk away. I truly, truly, miss the glory days of neverwinter. I'm just glad I'm not weird for playing it as long as i did.

[@klop552]

The bit about 'it's better if I forget' is heartbreaking. That's how I feel about WoW. The hope and promise of a return to a better time in a game is so damaging to so many people.

[@jdvorakczech]

It's not only wow and the mmo world, so many games comming out now are predatory, abusive and disappointing, it's unbelievable.

[@Naptosis]

You're both so right. WoW *was* my vice, but it seems like every 'AAA' game now is just a slot machine. You can tell people not to preorder or buy *macro* transactions, but people will anyway. Because of that we have the current system of bleeding players dry for dog shit content.

[@wythore]

​@@jdvorakczech This! And who's to blame for this? Us, the nostalgia seeking copium consumers, that just want to replay the games that made our childhood memorable, or the literal cancer that are whales that buy every single piece of human turd that has the word "pre-order" in it? Why would game companies cater to us when catering to the whales earn them more money?

[@Pussmash]

Same. I was 11 years old when I got the Warlord title in Vanilla WoW. My dad and I switched shifts and barely missed High Warlord. 🙃 was 12 when I tanked my first 20 man raid, Zul Gurub, in a guild run as well! Fusion! Miss the old world of warcraft. But I think it's nostalgia. Because I love Neverwinter, but I never played it way back when. I just enjoy it. I know I won't ever be end game, 60k ilvl, etc but that's fine. I can play the content nonetheless.

[@fawnieee]

@@wythore more like late stage capitalism and excessively greedy corporations but okay

[@QT-JME]

I can really hear the anguish in Josh's voice over this. It's a feeling I've had before with games that I loved ruined by predatory pay-to-win mechanics, until I couldn't take it anymore and left. But Josh spent most of his *career* on Neverwinter, it's beyond that I could have possibly felt at that point.

[@kyotheman69]

same pain I have with WoW, it truly sucks when game you really becomes a pile of shit

[@synicull127]

I haven't played the game in years - but damn - when he got to the foundry part I was so grumpy. It was so innovative and so DND. The game felt like NWN fairly simplified gone action MMO. I really wanted to like it, but didn't for unrelated reasons. It's a shame it crashed and burned, but I totally can 20/20 see the writing on the wall.

[@manapotu6623]

its actually not p2w to my opinion but you just gotta play it like a 7/24 job,just joking you dont have to play it everyday to keep your character in a good shape and fitting to meta but you just cant leave the game and come back,its like getting out of cold water,then trying to get inside again the water is cold again but this time its not getting warmer,your character is trash rn due to new items from bosses or dungeons,and you gotta grind the shit out of new stuff just to get your character in a normal shape bcz you left the game for a while

[@SpunkMcKullins]

Man, I remember trying Neverwinter after launch and thinking it was awesome. One of the few non-WoW MMO's to really capture me. I spent hours on the dungeon maker every day, making my own campaigns.

[@ShiningDarknes]

The dungeon maker actually almost made 4e (the system it was originally based on) not the worst edition of dnd... almost.

[@CoolNumber1]

Issue nothing to do end game.

[@JayJayisOK]

Does the dungeon maker still exist in the current version of the game?

[@SpunkMcKullins]

@@JayJayisOK Nope. They literally just forgot how to use it. All the previous devs had left and nobody was able to figure it out so they had to remove it.

[@SmokedTomahawkSteak]

@@SpunkMcKullins they did the same thing in STO player created missions.

[@diego6237]

This video expresses exactly why, and how I feel, every time I wish I was back in my teenage room playing neverwinter nights multiplayer servers, or more strongly so dungeons and dragons online.. I wish I had friends that enjoyed those games as I did, or moreover that we were still friends for I had a guild back in the day and so many friends I knew more than I know my friends nowadays, I would still enjoy those games I'm sure, but those wonderful places are now empty deserts full of ghosts and shadows. I still try to go back from time to time, and right after it becomes evident how broken it is, I try to find another game I can play with friends, but it seems everything sucks... What a terrible crime it is, to give life to a dream just to let it wither away.

[@diego6237]

@Saltee oooh I will go try it

[@Es3iya]

neverwinter night multiplayer was my first online gaming experience :) loved all those servers full off different worlds built by amateurs and other players.

[@diego6237]

@@Es3iya I know right! It was the first time I got banned too, for roleplaying a pacifist monk called Jesus of Nazareth

[@Ancientsecrets0304]

@@diego6237 i recommend world of greyhawk, active and helpful community there. some have played for 3+ years and still play

[@DmGray]

Been playing DDO again for a few weeks. It's honestly better than I remember it, and I loved it back in the day. It plays more smoothly (still a bit jank, but no where like it used to be) and the new action point system (talent trees) is amazing imo. It's way more solo friendly, but there's ALSO a hardcore league that is INCREDIBLY active. So, if you can stand the idea of permadeath (you can transfer the character to a different server though, which is nice) it's pretty amazing to play. I've mainly stuck to normal and hard though. Really don't want a perma death if I fail to resist a hold person and get mobbed :P

[@wakaitsu]

I never played Neverwinter, but yeesh, this episode got PAINFUL. I know the feeling of a game starting amassing, and then slooooooowly degrade into pay-2-win, I outlived 5 games like this before I was done playing MMO altogether precisely because of this trend. I feel your pain, brother-in-games. We're all in this together.

[@ngageman1988]

You could share what games they were?

[@Audioworm]

Even the rating at the end sounded more despondent than snarky. It's never easy, looking upon something you once loved and knowing it barely resembles what it once was.

[@DennisGarage]

Awfully similar to what happened with Blizzard, Warcraft and WoW... :/

[@ultgamercw6759]

Kind of like tf2 after valve stopped caring and the bots took over. That's the one that really hurts for me. I love that game but it's ruined by hackers.

[@chestermc9954]

@@ultgamercw6759 I know this comment is a month old but the game is still perfectly playable in community servers. There are many community servers that have custom anti-cheats and active moderators that keep the servers free of bots and cheaters.

[@Tiggoelicous]

my partner and i got to know each other through neverwinter. we both started new characters and played to max level (70 at the time). i remember my partner deciding to buy a 1 month VIP pack and even though we continued to only play together, they ended up waaay ahead of me. it was really disheartening. while i was struggling to keep up, they were plowing through enemies with little to no effort. we dropped it at some point and after we moved in together, we decided to give it another go to check out the changes and for the nostalgia. we barely made it to level 5. it was awful. everything that made the game fun was stripped. we both uninstalled and haven't looked back. RIP in peace private wilfred. i still miss you. i still have a screenshot of his memorial of where he died to valindra. best NPC.

[@sgtjonmcc]

I am former WoW player with a similar story, met my partner in WoW played together for years then we both just dropped the game as character balance went out the window and the social aspect of the game died. I tried Neverwinter for a few days after I leveled my first character to max I quit as it just didn't feel like anything mattered in the game if you didn't pay for it my inventory was practically full of items I could do nothing with because the keys or the prerequisites were only available in the shop or could only be picked up from a really long and protracted quest line that could only be started if I had enough of some thing.

[@MegaBennor]

Hey. So cool to see you found your partner through the game like me and my Partner did through the same game :) We are still together and had someone draw our characters with our faces in them to remember where we started :) Me the dwarf tank and she the elf healer. I hope you 2 are as happy together as we 2 are.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

Neverwinter was killed by greed. What makes it worse is that it hides it. Gacha games I know are greedy so it's like I'm accepting it. But cryptic did a lot of us dirty. Glad you two met through it at least. That's one good thing. P.s: Is that why I liked vip so much

[@EyeTry203]

why do people call their wife/husband "partner" instead of .. wife/husband? It sounds so cold and soulless.

[@rudolph2937]

@@EyeTry203 It bothers me too. It's kinda like calling women "females". Technically correct, but it just sounds wrong

[@JoeFFilho]

Hey Josh, I remember when I started playing Neverwinter watched a couple of your videos, it really helped me with my gameplay, one day I got into you twitch stream, there was like 10 people watching you playing one of the dungeons, I thanked you for helping me and left. Well, Neverwinter almost cost me my college degree, I got into it and didn't want to do anything else, didn't leave my room, didn't studied, didn't go to any parties, the game was amazing, but something didn't ring me right... I played a lot, every single day. but I didn't achieve anything, everytime an update came I looked at what I had and it was like it meant nothing the hours I spent grinding. I got my friend into it, I didn't had any money to spend on online games, but he had, in about 1 month he surpassed me, new mounts, new artifacts, new companions, I had to grind a week to convert enough AD to get anything at least usable, he was already maxed out. The game literally broke me, finished college, got a gf, but everytime I played a RPG it remembered me of Neverwinter, it was a hell of a good time, it even taught me English (main language BR portuguese), but it also taught me that I can't love a game too much, anyways... Thanks Josh for getting me into this amazing game!

[@stephenbromby5804]

Ya know what? After watching Josh break down this god-awful "game" that I used to love playing, it makes my heart sing that I abandoned/uninstalled it well over a year ago. Have been tempted to return to it, to see how the state of the game is, but then I watched this video, I came to my senses, cos it translates to... nothing has changed in NW, in fact, it's probably gotten worse. Thanks, Joshstrifehayes, you've helped me save a ton of money and (inadvertantly) spared my sanity at the same time. Sad, though, cos NW used to be so much fun, but now...?

[@eastcoastmostwanted710]

Ashes of creations gon destroy all the mmos

[@RAC00NFANGIRL]

@@eastcoastmostwanted710 maybe one day someone will make mmo dungeon and dragons. I mean movie is coming out maybe inspire those love this series make better MMO

[@AfroDyke]

This game was ❤

[@PSiLevel100]

NW is the best mmo for xbox and ps 😅 NW ❤

[@TxSakura]

Genuinely it's heartbreaking seeing and hearing someone feeling betrayed by a game they loved. Seeing it crash and burn knowing that the devs don't give a dam about the players. I played neverwinter a lot a few years back and enjoyed it a lot, I never thought it would get this bad. Keep up the great content and I hope the next mmo you fall in love with doesn't end up breaking you down

[@Lance_Lionroar]

Publisher* not developers.

[@lyuris277]

@Rose's Zen Garden watching this video got me thinking like "maybe this could happen to WoW too..." and if blizzard doesnt change drastically, it will probably happen.

[@Zazu1337]

Lol ask me about, Hellgate London, Warcraft reforged, World of Warcraft, Battleforge, Command and Conquer, Dungeon Keeper...

[@Cynidecia]

i know how it feels, i used to enjoy league of legends.

[@micahsmith2066]

I think this really shows just how good Josh is at being a reviewer and why more people should watch this channel. Like, this was genuinely painful for him to make and I think we can tell. He's able to step back and actually see what this once great game has become. Thanks Josh, love the video.

[@killingit2091]

I used to play NW for years. I was a DC end game character and loved playing as a cleric. The ability to help hold a team together when buffing was brilliant. Unfortunately a few years ago they changed the cleric to a healer fighter. I was upset about losing my buffs, but tried to see the bright side about actually having a battle cleric loadout... Unfortunately this was short lived as the battle cleric seemed to put out less dps than my buff cleric solo loadout. Instead of healing, buffing and fighting, It limited me to pick either healing or fighting depending on the loadout. I didn't pay to play either. If you saved up your store currency which you could get a set amount each day and you wait until july 4th or black friday, you could get the 6 month membership for free. I had completed all the maps including castle ravenloft and would run dungoens for hours. I still miss playing, but it's just not what it was.

[@baldrkrueger3552]

This one did hit hard. I played Neverwinter since launch for a long period of time, found a wonderful experience, new friends, a place I could relax and have fun. It did help me out crippling depression due to the loss of my father. Enjoyed every last moment of it and it deeply saddens me the state of it, and the greed that has befallen such a wonderful game. I completely understand how you feel towards it and share your pain.

[@KonaiNobi]

Played Neverwinter for several years shortly after it came out. Haven't played it in quite some time and this very painful and honest review is a masterpiece on where Cryptic is failing and why I won't go back to Neverwinter unless things seriously change. It's very sad because Neverwinter was really such a good game when it was still pure.

[@mommiejules6771]

I met my husband on this game 6 years ago. We both quit about a year after we met and now after watching the video I feel so sad that it’s completely different. I have such fond memories of what this game was.

[@RAC00NFANGIRL]

Man I’m soo sorry had go through that! *virtual hug*

[@CharterSauce]

@@Beebavel Sounds like you need a hug as well...

[@schnek8927]

@@CharterSauce No, he's very much got a point. That's several layers of weird.

[@ayoubbenyamina1194]

​@@schnek8927 agreed, yikes.

[@solsystem1342]

​​@@Beebavel I'm sure my partners won't mind. Hugs and bugs stranger ❤🐜 Also, "hug" is internet shorthand for sending support/ I feel for you It's pretty normal even between strangers even in many places online.

[@keterpatrol7527]

I used to play Neverwinter with my family. We had a small guild and we used to try to fight dragons. We always failed to kill one or two, but it didn't matter. It still holds a special place in my heart, long after we stopped playing.

[@SmokeyEdits]

Just found your channel and as someone who has played MMOs her entire life, I related a lot to the content and binged most of it. Gotta say, this is the most sombre episode of this series yet. The worst part is that I've been going through this same feeling with MapleStory lately. I'm a 15 year veteran of the game, and I dropped it entirely a couple months back because the company that owns it is horrible and the game experience is so far from what it was that it's become physically painful for me to play it now.

[@richardpreston7333]

As somebody who played a bit of MapleStory back in the day, this hurt to read.

[@SmokeyEdits]

@@richardpreston7333 Trust me, it's a right shithole of a game now. Not only is it nothing like it used to be (which can be fine, don't get me wrong) the community is so fragmented and drama-oriented it's not even funny. Nexon is just outwardly trans/homophobic; I'm a Jr Lead in a primarily LGBT+ guild and there's a number of the IGNs in the guild that got forcibly changed by Nexon because they had "Homo" in them. I shit you not. I had a friend in that game with the IGN HomoHoyoung, Hoyoung literally just being a class in the game, and their name got changed. I spent thousands, tens of thousands of dollars on that game. I'm not proud of it, but I definitely didn't regret it. I do now. I loved that game with every fiber of my being and Nexon has burnt it to the ground entirely. I'm sure you've heard about the mass exoduses (exodi?) of players in the past few years on both KMS and GMS. Don't even get me started on the fucking vac pets. If JSH needs someone angry to scream in his MapleStory video, I might just be the chick to do it. Fuck Nexon.

[@SmokeyEdits]

@DaKermitFrog I don't know what that is, but as far as I know MS was always just an independent launcher.

[@ForumArcade]

Oh god, I played MapleStory in the early early days and loved it. I tried to come back after Big Bang and it was just... Everything I loved about it was gone. Changed. Worse. There was a comment I read on a different video that really hit me emotionally. I'll paraphrase, but it went something like this: "I remember being a new player and riding the ship to Orbis. Sometimes, you'd be attacked by Balrogs. At first I tried to fight them, but they'd kill me in one hit. So I learned to hide, while the stronger players went outside and fought them. I yearned one day to be out there fighting with the others; to be strong like them. Now, I am strong. But they are all gone."

[@Demortixx]

Oh man I spent so much time on maple story 20 years ago

[@LittleDemonInside]

This... hurt to watch, emotionally. You can hear how defeated Josh is and goddamn. I just bing-watched all of his Worst MMO series in one go, and this is the most recently uploaded and... oof. Here's to the next review not being so hard to go through, Josh. See you next time.

[@xintrosi6829]

I want him to rip apart my favorite mmos so I can share his pain.

[@Hollowcrisis]

@@xintrosi6829 yo? 📸🤨

[@mystixa]

Yea I agree. I've heard that in other creators like Northside and even members of my guild / alliance. Just a sad state.

[@monroeriddell5822]

Someone give Josh a hug! Hearing him being so heartbroken over this game breaks my heart too.

[@julidee_]

Right :(

[@Khariismatic]

This definitely hurt me too. I absolutely loved Neverwinter because of my obsession of DND at a younger age. Before ESO, this was all I played. It hurts that this game will never live again, but it's comforting that one of my favorite KZbinrs can also relate to the wonderful memories this fossil created for its players.

[@keepinitcool4254]

I remember playing neverwinter throughout the same time period. My goal was to build an extremely tanky and self sufficient oathbound paladin because I wanted to be able to solo endgame content and dungeons. It's really satisfying to cast abilities that synergize together and feel so powerful being able to face tank millions of damage. I specifically remember that fight with orcus at the start of the video, there's these roaming balls of DPS that will melt anything and they all converge at a certain spot. I literally stood in that spot and face tanked millions of damage and I felt like my build was exactly what I wanted. But I still had a long way to go before reaching the limits. What really made me quit, which must have been around 4 years ago was when they nerfed my character to the point where my goals were no longer possible and my character felt like it had it's power just ripped away and could no longer do anything well, much less do anything special.

[@samusx2175]

I feel your pain. I played an Oathbound as well, but I played it for only a handful of months over a year ago. It was already P2W when I joined, and after I got to max level it just became daily grind quests and boring.

[@rohenthar8449]

I played far before you, and this what happened to paladin, already happened to others classes too. I played as Control Wizard, a glass cannon focused almost only on PvE, but... they nerfed it, mainly because TR community complains, and new class introduction... warlock. Cryptic is famous for forcing players to create new characters again, and again in their second game, Star Trek Online too.

[@MegaVirus700]

Should have played as an oath of the credit card paladin.

[@StUCaboose]

They literally made an anime a out you

[@agentmaryland1239]

@@rohenthar8449 I remember when they nerfed the Healadin build because of outcry that the Devoted Cleric was being left in the dust. I felt the better way to deal with this was to just buff the Cleric who honestly was pretty lackluster to begin with. The answer to a power imbalance isn't to nerf something inherently made powerful just because their ancestor was designed to be weak in all but very few realities. The Cleric was only really good on Haste builds for the most part because their healing just didn't exist. Even when you went for a strong healing build DC, your heals could not keep up unless you had the strongest gear in the game that buffed the attributes that worked with healing spells. Take for example my friend built a Devoted Healer with one or two armor buff abilities (note: he did not have the best gear in the game, but decent enough as he'd done the at the time end game challenges). He could heal for about 3 million per use at the time the OBP was announced. By the time I was done building my Healadin about 4 months later, I was cracking 15-20 million heals per healing rebound on my Chain Heal ability. And I hadn't even started getting the gear I needed for the end game Healadin God Build. I just had some extended campaign stuff that was a bit more powerful than base campaign gear. And the fact I was lucky and got a Stalwart Golden Lion on my first Firemane Lockbox crack with my free Key helped a lot too. As well as having saved up enough Astral Diamonds to convert to Zen to buy the Dragonborn race for that bonus crit stat. Versus his Elf Cleric, he didn't really stand a chance. Because while both his Wood Elf and my Dragonborn had a +1500 to crit, the DB gets a +3% to incoming healing which at the time, boosted outgoing healing +3% to each individual, so counting myself, that was basically a +15% outgoing healing buff. The real issue is that people were comparing the OBP and DC when they actually were very specific to their roles. They were supports, but each one had their use, but because people saw that they could both do buffs and both had the potential to heal, they just lumped them in together (despite the OBP being a duality existence because it can tank or it can heal and with a perfect Healadin build, you can do both).

[@Zeronightmarefox]

I do miss Neverwinter. Exploiting literally every boss to get the best loot and doing it all over again in the next expansion. Good times. P.S.: Shame you didn't mention them at all, there were some absolute hilarious ones, being out of bounds 99% of them.

[@revelations1016]

Even though this video wasn’t title “Before you buy” this is absolutely one of the best game reviews Ive ever seen and Ive watched many. It was done from the brilliant perspective of a player who has played and loved the game for several years and has simply not liked what the game. Brutal honesty from a player who truly still loves but offering a warning to anyone wanting to play the game. Josh offers many insightful tips to the game and the fun it offers yet at the same time the “General Surgeon’s” warning to playing it too long like what is on a pack of cigarettes. It’s a long video but watching it from beginning to end will be helpful to anyone with interest. Thank for the advice and plus youve earned a sub.

[@bluemyst42]

After seeing all of the monetization, I just picture a board of directors sitting in a room and cackling maniacally as they add more cash shop traps. I get having a cash shop, but making it so the currency costs just over the bundle price, forcing you to by more, just annoys me to no end. And there are real life people somewhere making this happen, purposely.

[@trancandy1]

almost every one of these cash shops is just psychological manipulation in a UI

[@Gohka]

Unfortunately it has become pretty much standard practice for any game that has a currency you exchange real money for. They always make things cost just slightly more than a certain pack, so you're sat there thinking; "I either spend £24.99 for 2400 coins + £9.99 for an extra 100 coins to buy something that costs 2500 or spend £29.99 for 2600 coins so it's cheaper than buying the 2400+100 and you have 100 coins left over, but the cheapest things cost 125 coins so now you have to spend at least another £9.99 for to get up to 200 coins, but then you have 75 coins left over, etc, etc."

[@JadusMoltriel]

Microtransactions are the antithesis to a healthy, enjoyable, satisfying game. It's like the Dark Side in Star Wars (and I say this as a massive Sith fan): quick access to power and success, but at a great cost of the things that matter to you. The power and gains you achieve become empty and void far sooner than you expect, and you're left lonely and craving more, with nobody to appreciate anything you accomplished.

[@wolfspider1628]

Looking at this game now- it's just so unrecognizable. I remember the day finding out about the "new" update to the Divine Cleric class, and just how much they dumbed down my favorite of all time class. It was the *only* class I enjoyed. I loved using it, the buffs, the nuance, all of it disappeared under one update claiming to try simplifying the class for beginners. I didn't just *hate it,* I felt it break my heart. I've never felt the melodrama of betrayal until that moment, and all of those years, all of those adventures and memories, and even the money I dumped into this game to help my silly little guild- it meant nothing. My love for the game meant nothing. I felt as if my character died, never to return, never to be redeemed. When you stated that the new level cap was 20, I felt so confused, until I realized that this has been years since I tried moving on from this game. I can't overstate how heartbroken I felt over all this. The game that Neverwinter once was to ***me*** is a hole that will never be filled, even as I find new love within Star Wars The Old Republic (here's hoping that new update coming February doesn't pull the same thing that Neverwinter did to me! Ha-... Haha... ha... We'll see how well this comment ages...).

[@seanmurphy3932]

nerd

[@wolfspider1628]

@@seanmurphy3932 You wound me, sir!

[@Liquessen]

Nerd

[@Unchainedful]

I feel you bro, every update for some reason keeps nerfing my trickster rogue. My class does decent damage but never the highest damage. We used to do the most damage but that’s long past now, I don’t understand why in every needing update they’ll nerf the highest damage and also nerf the rogue again for laughs.

[@toasterdestroyer3774]

Mod 16 or whatever mod was undermountain, dumbed down all the classes into the ground, I loved my warlock but it became insignificant

[@notscott3592]

“this game could be so much better, if they weren’t so greedy” i feel like i say that exact line for literally almost every game that has come out for the past 7 years. all triple A game companies are the embodiment of greediness these days

[@rohenthar8449]

Yeah, they are, because we players allows them to be like that.

[@mplovecraft]

While I don't side with the game company - at all, it might be the only thing keeping it alive. A pirate server might be the only solution. It means no more content, and in the end someone has to pay for that too. I came here because I was thinking about trying the game, but I will pass.

[@wickid3616]

blame the l33ts. they are selfish. in thier own worlds and will screw each other as well.

[@mystixa]

It was ok.. but no they've gotten worse where now their greed comes directly at the expense of gameplay. ..and if your style of play hadn't been affected at any point in time, all you had to do was wait because they have a campaign of seeking out things people are enjoying and breaking them while not introducing content that was asked for by the community. Other games like Warframe and ESO (eso isnt f2p but has a similar structure) dont do this to the same extent. As a result they have exponentially grown while the NW playerbase has linearly shrunk.

[@TheSkycania]

Idk if 7 years is accurate. More like the last 4 years it’s become very prominent in most game generes.

[@Jc2469.]

I can really sympathize with that pain of having to face the facts that your (once) favorite game just becomes so greedy and predatory but you stay. You stay for the dwindling playerbase, for the hopes of new (free) content, and the changes or additions to your main. Great video, grateful that I've found this series

[@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger]

It's funny because the endgame inaccessibility is what put the final nail in the coffin for me. I knew the game was hella monetized (I used auction house to get around some of this), I knew community was shoddy at best (joined a big guild and loved it, up until I realized I was the only one ever contributing to the guildhouse's coffers and nobody was ever online when I was. They gave me some cool mounts though so cant complain), I knew the shift to 5E royally messed up my character design and invalidated my entire journey from level 1 to level 70 (every stat and boon was indicative of my character's growth in the world; there was RP alongside the mechanics, and just suddenly wiping the slate clean telling me to reallocate my stats felt like a slap to the face), but realizing how unbalanced the endgame content was if you weren't a pay to player basically cemented my departure. I was so excited to go to Chult, but after arriving I got killed by beach crabs. I tried again, I got like 1 hit in, then got absolutely murdered by beach crabs - I had really high gear that gave me stat buffs and did a lot of damage, but the very entry level creatures were beyond the scope of a level 70 player who didnt pay to play. In the background was a veteran player with purchased gear and companions - crabs and dinos attacking him, he hardly took damage as he just ran to the next area; he just straight up murdered the things. The massive gap in gameplay you get from buying your stuff vs grinding it was insane - I tried a few times to come back with a couple other new level 70s, same deal though - we got a couple hits in then got basically one-shot killed by these beach crabs. At first I was thinking "if I grind really hard I can get the high level gear, at least enough to progress" - then I realized the massive effort needed to get just one piece of high end gear through astral diamonds, and even then its reliant on availability in the auction house. I basically stopped caring at that point; the world is fun and beautiful all the way up to level 70, at that point I just accepted I'd beat the game and moved on. Never did finish the main storyline.

[@chritlevgaming9297]

This game is visually stunning, I am absolutely mezmerized by the expresivity and creativity in the animations. It's sad mmos always have to go down the road of being a cash grab

[@bread9923]

hey, sometimes they start out that way.

[@vinsanity40k]

yes it was an impressive way to expose a player to the entire mythology of the forgotten realms. pretty overwhelming actually.

[@iWontSeeYourReplies]

This game isn’t a cash grab whatsoever. The people who spend money just suck at the game and don’t know how to use their head in order to reach end game quickly without spending. I try to give others advice but their impatience always sets them back. Being patient and not wasting AD to upgrade your toon is key. First you want to invest into the zen exchange. Once you have zen you can get VIP. Then you continue to do the zen exchange and flip items off the market. Only buy things that are the best of the best. Don’t ever buy something just because it’s an upgrade. If it’s not gonna be apart of your end game build don’t bother. All you did was waste AD on a temporary boost of power. I’ve been playing 15 months and have 38mil AD 33k zen and and 5 zen orders pending. My rogue is at 75k IL. I have everything I need besides mythic mount collars and the BOA. If you use the AH and zen market you can make profits quickly. For example I just bought x50 10 companion upgrade token packs off the AH as a bulk deal and re sold them as singles and made 850k AD. I win AH bids often. Made about 4-5mil AD the past week just from buying and selling items. Set an alarm for a good profit item if you’re able to be online at that time. Bid at the last second and you can easily win and sometimes double or triple your return by re selling it.

[@Golinth]

@@iWontSeeYourReplies you're in denial mate, it's time to move on.

[@iWontSeeYourReplies]

@@Golinth I’m in denial that I reached end game without spending? It’s easy to do if you have a brain and know how to work the AH. If you’re stupid and don’t know how to make AD and turn it into zen then sure it’s a cash grab. I personally don’t have to spend money because I’m not an idiot. If I wanted to spend money to be good at game I’d play Diablo immoral. I’m sorry you weren’t good enough to advance in the game without spending. Don’t get upset because I did it easily. I use my brain rather than my wallet. I’m proof you don’t have to spend to be good in this game. 2 more reagents and I’ll have my boa too. There’s so many ways to make millions of AD. X2 refinement event is an easy 6mil AD minimum. Siege event is an easy 30mil AD. Using the AH is an easy way to make AD constantly. Buy stuff at bulk that’s cheap and sell it as singles. It’s really not that hard.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

I'm not an MMO junky (life long single player gamer), but these videos are extremely fascinating. Thank you for these.

[@kyotheman69]

good you escape the pain

[@pipz420]

FF14 is a Single player game. Others can attest.

[@TalesZuliani]

@@pipz420 I can second that. Played a lot of FFXIV on the free trial solo. Great game

[@shinkamui]

i`ve only played ffxiv more because of ff than mmo. Sure i love it for the social experience now but still. It`s nice to have such an insightful view of what`s out there.

[@slicemup9]

@@felixader Leave them untouched like they left the GTA remake untouched?

[@Escorducarla]

Aw man, I could actually hear your heart breaking at the end. As a WoW player, I feel that pain very acutely and my heart goes out to you. Props for being able to be honest about things. That's harder than it seems.

[@MrWilhelm76]

I am gaming for 36 years now. Flightsim to MMORPG. Air refueling to COD MW2. Neverwinters raids to Valindra, the spider queen, fire dragon and all other cool bosses gave me wonderful experiences. Met so many great ppl. Amazing memories up to today. They introduced the dragon race, and i left the game. My top dps glass cannon GWF was nerved too much . When i see you running around solo in those epic dungeons that i remember sooo well, my heart is bleeding ! Age of Conan and Neverwinter thank you for the countless hours of joy !

[@jeroenstolp9889]

Ever since his passing, I have had a TotalBiscuit-shaped hole in my heart. I never expected anyone to fill that hole. Josh, I feel that I can give you no greater compliment than to say that I was wrong.

[@GodOfPlague]

I miss that guy too. Still watch his terraria lets play with Jesse from time to time

[@StarContract]

Honestly he was the best of the best. Shaped the gaming discussion videos genre on KZbin with his WTF Is series.

[@ProvostZarakov]

It will be a dark day when the last of the old guard are bo longer here

[@asiamatron]

Yeah I miss him too.

[@MiSambra]

TB was literally the first YT game reviewer I watched regularly. I miss him too.

[@zarpadoenflaco]

As an mmo fan, I can really appreciate the effort it takes to honestly criticize the ones you love.

[@00ABBITT00]

Shouldn’t be hard. People just need to stop taking criticism for games they enjoy as criticism against them, as humans. I play ff14, love it and still constantly find flaws and systems I think need improvements.

[@orionfire1947]

Exactly this. No game is perfect.

[@MasterLPG]

@@00ABBITT00 Some value honesty whilst others cherish loyalty. Some prefer to say it as it is to make those they truly care about better whilst others take a path of supporting one's choices, no matter how bad or wrong they may seem, to see their goal through to the end, "the end justifies the means" and all. *I wonder what kind of fan you are here? :)*

[@Hoto74]

@@orionfire1947 Right, but "No game is perfect" is also often used to defend bad things that developers do. It is also used for example to excuse unfinished normal game releases (Cyberpunkt 2077 for example or the new Battlefield). Too many use it to defend their pre-purchase, too many say "but it still makes fun" (New World). One some side I can understand it, on the other side I hate this behavior, it proof companies that they can do such things with us and still sell enough copies of their game. It is important to find the right middle way. On one side the developers should never get away with something like this, but on the other, ...yeah, no game is perfect.

[@orionfire1947]

@@Hoto74 Real talk the people that defend those things when CP2077 actually was bricking peoples entire systems and its wild that anyone could even defend that in the first place, however this is not exactly the point i was making when i responded to this comment. You can still love a game and see its flaws but sometimes a game is nothing but flaws

[@vonrelevanz1963]

3 minutes in and I must say: as a warframer, I loved your critique on it and you were on spot when it comes to it's flaws. You now taking the punishment is just awesome. You are the best critic i know and i highly recommend you to every warframer or mmo player in general i know. You, sir, are doing it right. Everyone deserves to know what they're into playing. I cannot stress enough how highly I treasure your content.

[@jeroenstolp9889]

I recently (3 days ago) started playing Warframe because of Josh's review of it. My main takeaway from that video was "Very steep learning curve, but this game can be that game you sink thousands and thousands of hours into if you can stick to it. Also, the core gameplay loop is incredibly fun".So far that has proven true for me. Obviously, only 10 or so hours in, I'm definitely not intimately familiar with all of its systems and complexities, but I'm having fun bullet jumping around and slashing everything on my path. The flaws that the game has are flaws that I can live with, and to me that's what picking your game is all about.

[@vonrelevanz1963]

@@jeroenstolp9889 Exactly.

[@-CyberFrame]

@@jeroenstolp9889 Welcome aboard, Tenno. Have you seen the preview of "The new war"?

[@jeroenstolp9889]

@@-CyberFrame I have not (yet) seen much of anything! It will come with time, I'm sure :)

[@IamaPERSON]

@@jeroenstolp9889 welcome, Tenno! If you need help with anything, just let me know

[@thorstmixx]

9:34 - Correction, they're named for the 4th* edition. At-Will, Encounter and Daily powers are a direct link to 4e, and was a huge restructuring from 3.5e, which a lot of people didn't care for (I happened to enjoy it, but I totally see why people wouldn't). 5e went away from this style, back toward the less video-gamey style of previous editions, and there is nothing in 5e called Daily, Encounter or At-Will powers. Instead, you have things that reset on long rests, things that reset on short rests, and cantrips.

[@MrShidimaOne]

This is why I love Josh! Even tho this game has a huge place in his hearth, he still points out all its faults. Josh is the reviewer we need!

[@TheDaechan]

Honestly, in my eyes, you're a true fan if you can sit and pick apart a game you love but either still love it and/or play it. I love sims. Have for 20 years (I'm 27) but it'd buggy to the high heavens and know what I'd fix and add in... yet I still play it as I enjoy it overall.

[@anickchose8114]

I remember genuinely enjoying Neverwinter back in 2017-ish. I don't usually like MMOs and prefer single-player games, but you could get to level 70 on your own with some luck and hard work. I stopped soon after reaching level 70 because it quickly became unplayable without a team, but I left without regrets and without having spent a dime. Seeing what it became afterwards is really saddening. I feel you Josh.

[@iarmandov2]

“Because returning to the bank is such a poor person thing to do!” That killed me lmao! 😭😂

[@kennethyoung4973]

There was a profound and tragic depression in your voice throughout this entire video. It is really awful to see a game we love completely demolished by the worst practices. I could tell that Neverwinter was the singular inspiration for Pay To Win: The Video Game with those weapon upgrade systems.

[@Timmy9384]

I have 8,137 hours of game play here on Neverwinter - Playstation 4. The best Neverwinter decision i ever made was quitting. I DO NOT recommend this game, and it certainly IS a cash/ time grab. I used to love this game, just like you. Definitely move on bro, I've watched it get worse and worse fueled by greed over time. I had four end game characters: Maxed: a Pally (tank) a Cleric (healer) DPS - Rogue, and my main guy a GWF...or Barbarian. After mod 16 I began shaking my head. I've spent lots of money on Neverwinter but never again. I had friends in game who would grind n grind which is worse in my opinion. Money WILL come back to you, one way or another; but time... time is one thing you'll never get back. 8,137 hours... Time.... I'll never get back.

[@Black-Dawg-Jesus]

@D. But he quit before reaching the 10.000 hour mark. :/

[@ShortsRealLife]

You could have learned 2 speak 2 languages fluently

[@Mike-li2wr]

Damn bro I hope you heal and find something better man

[@kuro9410_ilust]

@@anonym6090 sunk cost is a fucking drug i played crossfire for 10k hours and i regretted it

[@Mike-li2wr]

@@anonym6090 it WAS the best game out for years man and they have successfully turned it into another cashgrab

[@balanceofjudgement4282]

The Foundry was the best idea for an MMO that I've ever seen, and on top of that, it was perfectly matched with the general idea of people creating their own adventures in DnD games. I cannot overstate how good some of the fan-made maps were. I did not know that they had removed it. The last time I played NWO was when they turned my warlock into a healer (?), which I just couldnt get behind. I loved the customization for each spell that you got, the talents, the passives... how you could mix and match them to make your char your own. Such a damn shame.

[@earlpipe9713]

NO MORE "FAN ORIGINATING FUN", WE'RE THE EXPERTS & YOU ONLY DESERVE TO PLAY PIGGYBANK SIMULATOR

[@DaGrox94]

I agree with you, the old progression system was so much more fun and you could do so much more with it. I actually played a Warlock Healer BEFORE they officially changed it to be one. The Temptation feat tree allowed you to heal allies based off your lifesteal stat just by attacking enemies. It was called the Templock by the community. I could heal just as much as a dedicated healer and it was awesome! So when I found out they were giving the Warlock a real healing option, I was super excited! But they removed the lifesteal stat and replaced it with defense, so all my gear was useless, gave us a clunky, barely functioning TAB ability (that still doesn't work, even years later) and we now have a resource pool that increases our healing when it's high, but all of our healing spells use it up. So after healing your group ONCE, your healing efficiency goes down and stays down for the rest of the fight, unless you just sit there and don't heal for a good 10-15 seconds because it regenerates so slowly. It's not that it's weak or anything... it's just not fun, at least not compared to the original Templock.

[@TheMichigami]

@@tabunato1323 In City of Heroes "Architect Entertainment" was also a user-created content feature like the Foundry. Some of the best story arcs in the game were written in the mission architect, some of them by people from the comics industry that were also players of the game, and well-known authors, but most of em by people just creating stories or making "badge farms" for the "defeat x amount of this type enemy" awards. It seems that once Cryptic found an idea it liked it ran with it in several games, CoH was Cryptic Studios and Paragon Studios. also yeah, "sun-setting" was their preferred cute name for pulling the plug on things, they used it for the CoH shutdown announcements too.

[@ZorotheGallade]

Best thing of the foundry was players could leave you tips if they particularly liked your custom adventure. It was a way to encourage creators to make quality content and made creating all of that feel rewarding. But I guess Cryptic just couldn't tolerate the idea of players having fun with each other...

[@ZorotheGallade]

Oh, and of course downtime activities. Leadership was so fun because it was basically an endgame for idle play. It let you sink resources in something thar could earn you a steady trickle of wealth. And then cryptic was like "LOL NO FUCK YOU GUYS" and removed it altogether. And all the players who had spent ingame or real money into improving their Leadership just got a fat middle finger shoved in their face.

[@patchesm]

I promised myself I wouldn't cry, but he sounds so devastated. "But there are only two that matter: Zen and Astral Diamonds" Ah shit, this again

[@kingprone7846]

lootboxes and cashshop ruined gaming

[@IamaPERSON]

@@kingprone7846 unfortunately

[@darthbaker1114]

I never played this game. Even so, this one hit hard with how relatable what Josh is going through is. I'm there with you Josh. The feeling of seeing your favorite game fall into ruin. Not being able to recommend something you used to hold so dear, and probably still do. Wishing to see the glory days just one more time. Maybe I'm projecting, but hearing the pain in his voice, especially at the end, broke my heart. I wish I could have played this game in its glory days.

[@zurgboy07]

Damn you really put out the reason's why I left the game. Glad I'm not alone in thinking that NW was a really good game but a poorly managed one. When Greed Takes over this happens.

[@alex__zander]

Unfortunately that's just the beast that is modern online gaming, pay to win generates more money than any great game that only pulls in subscription money ever will.

[@rundownmaggot666]

Yeah used to be my main game and sunk many hours into it. The repeat quest and the constant rework to the level up system kinda did it for me.

[@harissarajevo3267]

I quit this january, afte 3 year play.

[@DelDel__]

As someone who has witnessed their favourite MMO slowly and painfully die, this just breaks my heart.

[@bigluke6090]

☠️ Tera ☠️

[@RAC00NFANGIRL]

@@bigluke6090 I liked Tera and enjoy it but I kind stop playing it went back to world of warcraft because that mmo that start it all.

[@angrymetalhead]

Seeing this happen to EVE Online is really sad. It too has gone the pay to win route, although it's not as egregious as Neverwinter but still it's not that far off.

[@victoriapollard6995]

Star Wars galaxies 😕

[@florida_sucks]

@@nahqivever since pearl abyss acquired ccp it's finally happening to eve online. i really never thought it would happen to eve. it wouldn't have had they not sold out

[@JustAnotherMike_]

9:31 Made to tie into the naming conventions of *4th* edition D&D And man, I remember playing this casually quite a few years back and dropping it after realizing I wouldn't be able to get anywhere without using the cash shop anymore. I had a lot of fun with the mechanics, world building and story though as a big D&D (and specifically Forgotten Realms) nerd. I made and even still use some of the characters I made for Neverwinter (their races, classes and backstories) in some of my 5e games. It was a lovely little distraction and will always have a place in my heart, even if I dropped it due to recognizing the predatory systems that were being introduced

[@KrypticStudiosCorp]

Most MMO's start out as heroes, but they usually live long enough just to become villains.

[@CelticBloodGaming]

It’s wild, sometimes the memories of our past MMO adventures are so haunting. The people, the places and the time can never truly be experienced again.

[@rohenthar8449]

Yeah... nostalgia.

[@flawlessvic]

WoW classic did that to me. Chillwind Point pvp might be my favorite gaming experience ever. Attempted to recreate it a few years ago....no way. Stale. I need to keep those memories, memories. No use to try and recreate.

[@Asytra]

The Foundry system was, by far, one of the best additions to any MMO ever. I had so many fun times playing through content in STO and Neverwinter. In fact I was even considering returning to Neverwinter watching this video, despite all the warnings about the cash shop, until I found out that they shut down the Foundry. Literally one of the most innovative systems of any modern MMO and they killed it out of laziness and greed.

[@MarinoKadame1]

They killed it mostly because they were better than the official content, and also back in the day they were one of the best content to do for leveling.

[@worldweaver2691]

@@MarinoKadame1 well there goes my desire to play STO.

[@GeneChiu]

I loved playing the "Tired of Being a Hero" foundry quest. I was disappointed when they got rid of the foundry. It was more fun than a lot of the in game content I had to do.

[@sheeptasticSeb]

Overwatch is in a similar place - it's dying, but people are still going for the custom games. You get Uno, Mario party, parkour, hide n seek, etc etc. People are really really creative. I could guarantee that if OW removed the custom games it, too, would slowly sink below the surface it's been treading

[@bigron8896]

They shut down the foundry? That was literally the best part of the game.

[@FrenziedFury]

If Josh is doing an episode on this game, he *has* to do one on its brother Star Trek Online.

[@RoscoeWasHere]

I thought the same thing as soon as he mentioned it.

[@aka-47k]

as long time sto player...its pretty much the same review, lol cryptic did the same to both games sadly.

[@tineye5100]

Yeah it makes me wonder why anyone was shocked by Magic Legends’s failure. Cryptic is really the worst.

[@Firevine]

I loved STO... and then they did the exact same things to it that Josh mentioned here.

[@zeroneutral]

Oh dear lord.

[@TheDarksaphira]

I've recently started watching the Worst MMO Ever videos and this one really, really hit hard. The emotion in all of this. I bet it was great, back in the day. It's sad to see something like this happen.

[@ericlamb4501]

The thing you have to realize too with this series isn't that this is a unique occurrence. Pretty much every old MMO-turned-cashgrab Josh has covered thus far and will has people who have good memories from a time long passed, just read through the comments here and reviews on Steam. This one was just his turn to get a dagger through the heart, and, as much as that sucks, he really handled it well.

[@Jonsoner]

I can't remember a more fun leveling experience with the bois in an MMO. I remember I started playing as soon as it released, it was great to work on the campaign, go to the foundry to some farm levels when we were behind or near a cool unlock and just mess around player created maps for the experience, no the in game experience, but the have fun playing a game experience. Our party was, what we assumed, balanced for content. A priest, a control mage, me as a rogue, a dread fighter and a tank vanguard fighter. So, a Healer, Tank, and 3 dps which is the recommended party composition. The problems started early, a lvl 45 (out of 60 i think) dungeon that was pirate themed, aptly called "Pirate Kings Retreat", because it almost made us want to quit. There we learned the 4 crucial mechanic that the game had to offer at the time. 1- Control wizards run the dungeon trash clear. You see, the dungeon was on the outside, and you walked around pits. The wizard have (had?) two amazing control skills, blackhole which gather all the enemies in a location and push, upgraded to aoe push, can't remember if it had a cap. So, the tank grabs the adds, pull them near a ledge, and the wizard push them off reducing minutes of fighting to seconds. Bear this in mind, as it comes up later. So the dungeon stopped being about the fights, and more about finding ways to shortcut the encounters, which was fun in it's on way theorycrafting the route, but left both me and the warrior dps without a job other than killing one or two stragglers per pull. But we still have the boss, which is our time to shine! Right? 2- Dps don't dps the boss, unless you are a rogue. Most bosses at the time had a add spawning mechanic, and it was NOT like you would assume, a small enemy that you dispatch in 5 seconds and did some damage to the party if the tank is asleep. No, these were pretty much dungeon mobs that spawned in pairs over 30 seconds to a minute, so instead of being a fight with adds for distraction, it was an add Boss fight that you needed to kill the boss before being overwhelmed, because there was no cap. This is where the control mage comes in, allowing the tank to grab all the adds, black hole to pull them together and push (sometimes in very specific angles, shared by talking with other people in game) the 6-10 adds off the arena, killing them. So the party composition started to look something like this. Healer, control mage, a tank and whatever else. Not too great. But at least everyone has a role to play... kinda... right? 3- Class balance was busted. Unsurprisingly the healer was the best class, as it had everything you could want, aoe healing, damage redunction, shields, everything to make sure that the guys never die. Mage was second, as they controlled the trash and helped dps, but their main job was to manage the adds. Rogue in third, because they had the single damage dps to pump up if there was no ledge and to kill the bosses. And the fighters... poor good guys fighters... they did damage, but had no way to absorb damage so more often than not they would get agro from trash, get slapped silly and go back into the healers arms for help. And the tank, which... tanked. Until you reach the final realization. 4- There were actually only three classes. You know what makes more dps than a fighter? Another mage to push the trash out of the arena and use the spare time to attack the boss. You know who tanks better than the tank? Another healer, as their aoe damage reduction STACKED, allowing them to heal each other while avoiding the attacks from the boss as the trash is being managed by the mages. And me, the rogue. You know what my job was? To literally solo the boss. It was MY responsibility to do 80 - 90% of the boss health. This means using every single skill that I had at my disposal to avoid damage the boss damage and avoid agroing the adds as the healers needed to prioritize each other, manage my cooldowns to not only maximize my damage, but also to remove all the agro that I would get and make super extra ultra sure to not die since the boss did like 70% of my life per hit, which could be combo'ed with adds agro to just delete me if I get sloppy for a rotation. This was the IDEAL combination. Any other was either too squishy without more healers, too low damage to manage the adds without two wizards and a rogue is mandatory for the boss. So, two healers, two control wizards and a boss killing rogue. Nothing else was desired. So my two fighter friends? Had to leave the game because their classes were useless, even in pvp. The other three of us had fun because it was actually challenging, and our roles were, in a way, non conventional. This is the final boss at the time, this party comp was my party comp during every single end game dungeon/content: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l327f6OBjdGehsU&ab_channel=m0rph I killed him only once. Having to solo the boss perfectly for 14 minutes was the final act for me, as the absolute PAIN of having to grind forever for enchants, the CATurday CATastrophe where a HUGE exploit of astral diamonds was reveled and we only got a shit cape that clipped into the body as a sorry for breaking the auction house since the first day, and my friends leaving was too much to me to keep enjoying this game. Castle Never? More like Castle never doing this shit again! Haha! Got'em! I really miss this game tbh. I came a bit later and got carried into killing Tiamat, but the game was already progress locked at the time, forcing me to 100% clear old content SLOWLY AS HELL to get the old buff or enhancements or whatever in order to be competitive... Tried for two days, realized what the game was trying to do and never again. RIP Ishtar, the halfling rogue with a mohawk, a clown mask/hat and a blind eye. Who knew you would be reborn in another game as a cute catgirl monk.

[@blaze4096]

A slight correction, the name "Daily Powers" is meant to tie in with the 4th edition of D&D, not the 5th. Almost all of the combat abilities share the same naming scheme as 4th edition, free, encounter and daily.

[@MelissiaBlackheart]

They do, but that's about all it shares with 4th edition. A pity we never got a 4e game in the style of X-Com or Final Fantasy Tactics, because the 4th edition ruleset would work immensely well with such a game.

[@gampie13]

@@MelissiaBlackheart that is due to 4e being designed to be a mini table top game, rather than a classical table top RPG

[@simpsonwizekid]

@@MelissiaBlackheart supposedly the head designer for 4e had plans to incorporate an app system to 4e that would have greatly enhanced the table top experience. Unfortunately he died, and no one else on the team knew much about his plans because he kept it all close to his chest. It makes me wonder that if this was true, how better 4th edition would have been received, and what the state of dnd would be nowadays. I know that they use the concent of at-will, encounter, and daily powers for their dnd board games.

[@MelissiaBlackheart]

​@@gampie13You contradict yourself, because classical tabletop RPGs-- such as Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, aka "1st edition"-- used miniatures on tabletop maps as a regular thing, to the point of selling massive amounts of miniatures for that very specific use. Before the advent of the internet and, in particular, virtual tabletops, most roleplaying games were either "theater of the mind" like Vampire: The Masquerade, or tabletop based with miniatures like ADnD. DnD's rules were even derived from a tabletop wargame (in the style of games like Flames of War or Warhammer) called Chainmail, so this shouldn't be a surprise.

[@gitrekt-gudson]

@@MelissiaBlackheart While D&D may have been derived from a wargame, it doesn't require minis. D&D has always been theater of the mind for me and my group of friends and we've played since AD&D. Gampie is correct about 4e. 4E was explicitly designed to be used with minis. The rules were written as a miniatures game, not as an RPG where minis are optional. Previous versions were not like this. However, gampie does contradict, because that very complaint about 4E is why 4E would translate to an XCom/FFT style video game really well.

[@Kaltrogdor]

This one really hits me in the feels. I had A LOT of time I put into this game when I needed a place to put time and keep myself out of trouble. I picked it back up so me and my wife could play something together and I remembered having so much fun with it and when we played with the new characters it was fun, until it wasn't.

[@robertfugate3038]

Same reason

[@manapotu6623]

the problem is its a very good game,like i accept it has p2w features as nearly every mmorpg game has but you can just skip through these with some extra time(seriously not mentioning about long times just small extra time) problem is not in the game I guess,but if you stop playing the game for a while when you come back you just cant get yourself in,its like getting out of cold water,after waiting for a while getting in back,but the water is just not getting warmer its not changing

[@thesilvercircle4582]

This was the game that introduced me to the drow and tiefling (things I’d never heard of before and now totally love in every setting and iteration). I could never truly understand the game as I didn’t have the patience or understanding to figure it out, but I always wondered (and still think) about it every now and again.

[@nice2785]

Finally, an MMO I’ve actually played that’s ended up on the Worst MMO Ever. I must have good choice in games.

[@Lance_Lionroar]

Not all MMOs in the series are bad though. He covered Warframe in it.

[@ivailoivanov01]

@@Lance_Lionroar Wizard101 isn't bad either, the game requires membership so there's almost no p2w.

[@chilidogx]

@@ivailoivanov01 Wiz isnt bad however there is kind of a p2w scheme around it as the dino pets/wand/mount having damage bonuses and arent obtainable with normal means, along with pack energy gear being almost 2x as good as obtainable things (which are extremely low chance anyway) along with elixirs that i cant say ive ever used but do give big bonuses and last but not least some spells being only obtainable through packs (Headless for death) and them actually being really good spells like headless

[@IamaPERSON]

@@Lance_Lionroar well Warframe technically isn't an MMO.

[@bronzejourney5784]

@@Lance_Lionroar Warframe is one of the shittiest online games ever, lmao. Way worse than being pay to win.

[@billvolk4236]

After having to rip apart his old favorite game, even Josh couldn't keep a dry face

[@cattrucker8257]

It made him want to try case against the devs

[@joelbaker9366]

Josh Dry Face has left the building...

[@irishsage2459]

I played Neverwinter after a long history of World of Warcraft, and it did break me of that particular habit. So it will always hold a place in my heart for that. One reason was the Foundry. Neverwinter died for me on the day they removed it.

[@mikoto7693]

STO died for me with the Foundry removal. I would have even been okay if they just left it without updating any more.

[@wumi2419]

I remember playing a lot of Neverwinter 8 years ago or so. Loved it at the time, but at some point real life caught up and cash shop appeared

[@timmatthews5762]

I never had the pleasure of playing foundry quests, I can only imagine how cool it was. I still play neverwinter but I don't spend money on it anymore, just cant get over how they nerfed my pally healer into the ground and even with all the best gear it wont be what it was, not even close. RIP full blue bars

[@88smileandnod]

@@mikoto7693 I didnt realize they'd removed the Foundry, player-made maps were my favorite part of NW

[@defensedyf1445]

Luck would have it that my grandfather and father played Neverwinter since it's release in 2013, so only natural that I found out about it pretty fast, and I'm telling you, I was CRAZY in love with this game as I finally got hands on it myself, probably the reason why I play games to this day too. To think that I was there when they increased maximum level from 60 to 70, and later to 80, and then capped it at 20, that I was there when the Foundy was taken down, that I was there as they added Paladin and Warlock, and that I was there before that even, is quite surprising to me, looking back at it today. Of course there is no surprise in that, the game was fun! But... It feels like everything I loved this game for was taken away from me. The skills are scarce in comparison to what it used to be, some of the maps I spent the most time in, like Blacklake District, are gone, and the character progression loot-wise turned from satisfyingly gradual to so rapid it's hard to care. I was shocked when I found out just how easy it is to get the gear or mounts or companions that was only available to the highest-level players before. Their decision to give away astral diamonds to everyone and their dog like crazy, of all things, I am sure, has crashed the market of them and effectively reduced their value to 0 in the eyes of high-level players (though I can't speak for sure, as I never was interested in that). And apologies for perhaps a little specific view on Neverwinter, as I have to admit, that as of today, I am 16 years old. Do the quick math and you will realise that, mine oh Mary, I started playing the game at the age of 5. At that time Neverwinter was not and could not be something that I'd invest my time and money in to become the best player. I played for the plot, the adventures, and commonly deleted my character and started over with a new class or race just to re-experience the couple of first locations they sent you to back in the day. I never even poured a single penny into the game - because I didn't have to. It was never about being the best, it was about the fun. Imagine how bad must've they fumbled with the game's development, if they managed to turn away the kid turned teenager who ever just wanted to play the game for plot and fun. I remember even, during one of those nights where I randomly reminisced about the prime Neverwinter, I felt tears at my eyes, and I couldn't stop them. So definitely, I share your pain, Josh, I get exactly what you've talked about in the video, if from a different perspective. The game is out there still, of course. But it's core, the sole essence of WHY this game was so good has been ripped away. If I was to be asked "Would you rather Neverwinter shut down before the Jewel of North update or let the game develop past it to the point at which we have it today?", I'd reply with a quote of a singer we all are to some degree are acquainted with, "It's better to burn out than to fade away".

[@razgriz0n3]

Dude, I *feel* you on the loss of the Foundry The Foundry missions I played back in STO were some of the best examples of storytelling I've ever experienced and I think on them fondly to this very day

[@Code_Lin]

@@tabunato1323 while yes STO has lockboxes l,dilithium and zen, its upgrade sistem doesent work that way. And i defenitly don't think it has fallen to neverwinter's level

[@juliankanzuki2013]

This hurt me, I played this game for years when it first came out and got to first hand watch its decline. It started so strong, the setting was cool, classes all fun to play and tab system made them all feel vastly different and the combat was outright amazing and still stands as the best mmo combat experiance I've ever had, I became invested in PvP, and for a while when they introduced a ranking system I was one of the top 3 pvp players (the three of us rotated now and then so hard to say who was really best). I was a dedicated pvp player (Tiefling rogue, Kiasan) but also a RPer, who loved hanging out in the dedicated RP hum (moonstone mask) to RP with other players there, the RP scene was booming, the combat was great and pvp genuinly felt like it was skill > gear (at the games start) thanks to the combat system using animation cancels and dodges etc that meant almost anything WAS avoidable if you were skilled enough. The zen shop was there but it was mostly cosmetics at the start novilty but nothing that really affected game play to cause the pay to win alarm bells. But the decline was a progressive power creep, broken mechaincs, grind fest, and cash grabbing... the Zen shop gradually started to include more mechaincs, enchantments became more and more grindy and mroe manditory, campaign boons gave too much passive power (there became a point where with boons + enchantments you could literally stand still in pvp and kill less geared players by afking, self regen and return damage meant they killed themselves trying to hurt you) everything I loved was destroyed, there was no skill in pvp anymore it was just about gear and spending zen, the RP scene died out massivly, and the moonstone mask became overun by none RPers harassing RPers, so the RP scene rapidly died off... not to mention the loss of the foundry and RP players geting nothing to help RP (this is a DnD game, RP should be catered to..) It does break my heart to see what this game turned into because I genuinly loved it and it was some of the best gaming I've ever experianced when the game was at its best.

[@rohenthar8449]

Fully agree, but cash grab aside, the prime problem why this game turned this way, was trickster rouges "community", who constantly cried that they are outperformed in PvE by Control Wizards, especially me, and my guild members. So they were reworks, rebuilds, and so on..., but this is commonly know fact, that if Cryptic is reworking something, they will make an epic... FAILURE (Star Trek Online -> Delta Rising;)). Then Tyranny of Dragons expansion come, and artificial equipment, which made obsolete all purple gear painstakingly collected (from Valindra, Castle Never) until this point... not to mention, stolen artifacts and so on... so I quit.

[@lancedolan]

I couldn't believe when the foundry was stopped. I thought that was the primary value of the game.

[@frojanty]

Pay to win was slapped in my face when I realized they had a 70$race that was arguably amazing

[@RayearthIX]

Same with STO. Yes, there were "P2W" elements in old STO. There were premium ships for sale, but those ships were not strictly better than the free ships available in the game. However, over time, the monetization just got worse, and as you showed in an article here, the player created content was removed and even more monetization was added. So... I get you. Absolutely understand the pain.

[@AzureGreatheart]

Okay, I get having a greedy cash grab of an in-game store, but removing the UGC is just idiotic. It is in a company’s best interest to at the very least _pretend_ to care about their customers, as the fans are the ones who are keeping them afloat. If the company keeps actively screwing over the people who got them to this point, I’m not sure how much longer they’ll last.

[@Hevach]

STO has one thing Neverwinter doesn't: they don't do the gear reset thing every content drop, power creep is deep and progression systems are easy. You can absolutely pay to win, possibly to a wider margin that Neverwinter, but you are paying to win a game that was called for mercy in the first quarter. I'm using a build that was abandoned in the metagame way back with the weapon power drain change in season 1, with gear from original fleet starbase, on a ship that fell off the metagame with the first specialization seated ships (because it's visually fun to see in action and feels like something that might actually be on the show), and I can solo endgame group content on high difficulties because of power creep. The only STFs I can't handle alone are those with timed failure conditions or multiple non-optional defense points. This is faint praise and STO peaked lower, but it also has declined slower than Neverwinter, gutted less content and left player progression largely alone. It also killed it's version of the Foundry which was not quite as good as Neverwinter's but the game's biggest reason to play by far, even if it did go offline for 3-4 weeks every major update and often only returned a week or two before a new patch required it to go into database rebuild mode.

[@kaiumiko9461]

I used to play this game too in the old days. It was much better back then. I primarily played the game for pvp and hated the pve grind. The grind is so ridiculous now though. It really started to become painful around 2013. I just can’t go back to it. In pvp, it became less about skill and more about cheesing your opponents. To mitigate this, if we did arranged pvp matches, both teams would agree on things we couldn’t use to keep it more skill based. If you ever played in Ker’rat between regularly 2010-2014 or in team PvPs, you probably knew of me.

[@nolgroth]

I'm not going to argue that Crptic/PWE haven't screwed over STO, but I don't believe it is anywhere near as bad as Neverwinter. Much of the best Gear can be had for free, leaving the cash shop as basically a Starship Trait dealership. The Premium gamble box stuff is nice enough, I suppose, but completely unnecessary. I think, because of the lack of random "good" loot, content creators on KZbin have an easier time guiding players, at all budget levels, towards success. Same with Reddit. I miss a lot of content and features that Cryptic culled out. I hate the Random Queue system they implemented. I really hate the Daily Grind/Power Creep mechanisms they've implemented. And yet, overall, I still like to play STO. It is the only MMO that I can still stomach.

[@MotionNA]

You spoke from my heart. I have great memories from this game. I remember organizing Tiamat for my alliance. Being one of the best GreatWeaponFighters of my time. I remember the times when Legendary Mounts were a rare sight and not purchasable. Having the armored Griffin at that time was the best feeling ever. I’ve stopped at some point cause the amount of money needed to spent in order to stay on top got more and more ridiculous. Even changing the Enchantment system at some point completely just to have a complete cashcrab once again.. no words to say. I’ve gave the game two chances again but both times I ended up stopping again cause it can’t hold back to the memories. Stormkings thunder was the peak of the game for me. I even remember Gauntlgrym, I’ve had great times with old friends I’ve made in this game. But in the end not everything that shines is gold. Thank you for this video.

[@GoukenGassenarl]

The Charwood sidequest in the first Neverwinter Nights game is still one of the most memorable moments of my young gaming days

[@-Keith-]

It was very horror-esque. A crime so terrible that Lathander himself plucked the entire village out of time, dooming the townspeople to eternal deathless limbo until a judge arrived to investigate and sentence the people responsible. I know the "correct" resolution was to find both brothers innocent and Belial guilty, but there's no way in hell that I'm going to let Karlat get an innocent verdict for what he did by his own choice.

[@itchywoolpants]

That is from the second Neverwinter Nights game. The first is from the early 90s. Confusingly, the second is just called Neverwinter Nights, and the third is Neverwinter Nights 2.

[@apo9998]

I’ve never heard you review a game with such bittersweet tones in your voice, this must have been excruciating to make. Thank you for steeling your emotions and giving us an objective review of what is one of the dearest games to your heart.

[@mikoto7693]

Ugh, listening to all that zen made me wince knowing the prices zen exchanges for.

[@Vaerlayn]

This really hurt to listen to, this was my only mmo for... years. Thousands of hours spent both playing the game and engaging with the roleplaying community, before we moved on. The writing was on the wall for years, but there wasn't anything else that really did what Neverwinter did, some of the environments for roleplaying built in the Foundry were the best places I've ever had the fortune to visit in an MMO, hell I even had my own map I spent hundreds of hours making for my main character. Then they just took it all away. Remember the Neverwinter Gateway? I do. Back in the days where it felt like it was about the fun, but every new campaign just made it clearer and clearer. For me,the Paladin release killed most content. I played a Divine Oracle healer, but once the paladin was out, no one wanted cleric healers anymore. Then the loss of the Foundry took away what little we had left. This was a beautiful game with beautiful memories, but now, those memories are all that's left.

[@Hoto74]

Be happy, you moved on early enough.

[@Vaerlayn]

@@Hoto74 I am, honestly. I left around when Undermountain came out if I recall correctly. After basically being unable to play Chult or Barovia at all because of how badly balanced even basic enemies were. I don't know if they fixed that, but my memory of Chult was walking out into the jungle on my cleric and dying to the first pack of compies outside the gate.

[@ADKV95]

Was Foundry where players make their own map and story and upload it then you can go through the player-written quests and other shenanigans? If it is, jfc i missed it so much, was literally 99% of my playtime back then, i would spend time looking for the best ones, then try out newer ones and it was never ending contents for me. I remember this power ranger megazord one where iirc i get to play as the bad guy, and there were multiple choices of items/companions throughout so it'd be hours to replay the same map to try different items, choices, etc. Or this one where i was invited to this cabin with the fairy tales characters and do their stories. Or playing a detective solving murder cases involving a cthulhu cult. Etc. And level range for queues. Took a break and come back during undermountain, foundry gone, dragonborn added, queue was like what, went from something like 1-5, 5-10, 10-15, etc. to like 5+ only. Got a real job during that so got into this spending frenzy after years of f2p, finished undermountain (kind of, stopped when lionheart released but maxed the uh...alabaster gear iirc?), tried old expansions and found out they're time locked to weeks of grinding. I was so excited for new stories, noped out. Came back last week, blaco screen twice, had to restart pc after 2nd one (first time in years), uninstalled. Divine intervention i suppose.

[@allthatishere]

You can literally hear the hurt in Josh's voice near the end of the video. I have no attachments to this game, but I feel his pain nonetheless.

[@putter1mc]

I started playing when I was in middleschool and remember everything you talked about in this video from the good old days. I've been away for college a few years now and just today logged back in and it looks so different now. Your video was an unexpected emotional ride and I wanted to let you know I deeply empathize and appreciate it.

[@dabear5641]

I felt that pain. The same pain you experience for Neverwinter, I felt for WoW over the past few years. Companies just go out of their way to hurt their communities now a days. It's upsetting, really.

[@brutalriff1053]

Korean MMO "Blade and Soul" was my Neverwinter. Definitely a "Worst MMO's Ever" Candidate. Best combat I've ever experienced in my life, amazing graphics/animations, group activities, etc. Killed by its greedy Corporate overlords. I foolishly stuck around and dropped THOUSANDS into it. Ironically I was a broke college student at the time too, so I'd sacrifice my grocery money in exchange for boxes/keys, since playing 4-6 hours a day wasn't enough to keep up with the pace of new content. Here's my hot take: "MMO's are dying" isn't because MMO's suck or are losing popularity. Its because they cant do what CoD / EA Sports do: Release a new game every year, and "reset" all players to square one. MMO's are dying because they are harder to monetize, so most corporate interests / investors seeking quick gains (which most are) turn away. The ones that do see potential, force developers to work parallel with a business model that ultimately demands a small, dedicated, "sunk-cost fallacy" susceptible portion of players as a consistent revenue stream. Not something you can establish overnight, and hard to accomplish these days with so many other game options to choose from that WON'T cost you your life savings. What happens when these corporations DO accomplish their goal? They end up with a game that's good enough to retain players on gameplay/mechanics/lore alone, but stripped of everything else that gave it soul and character. They end up with Blade and Soul / Neverwinter. A perfect balance of greed and gameplay. Corporations that run these game studios fully understand that it only takes 10-15% of paying players to make their cash shop viable, and will design their games around those players that generate the most profit. This is why even "cosmetic only" microtransactions are unacceptable, because you are signaling to game companies that its ok to make unique / interesting gameplay features inaccessible to people who can't/won't buy them, as long as 10-15% of people do. Saying "It's alright if its just cosmetic" is the reason so many games have monetized cosmetics these days. They know how far they can push the boundary of greed, because we've defined that line ourselves. WE are the ones in control of that line at the end of the day. I believe gambling draws many parallels to the gaming industry right now. The question that had to be asked when gambling was being regulated, was "who is at fault for one's gambling addiction"? The gambler, for his lack of self control, or the casino, for encouraging and profiting off it? If you ask why the state of the gaming industry is what it is today, the resounding answer from gamers seems to be "its 100% the companies' faults". But I think we also need to start speaking with our wallets. The moment our opinions start affecting their bottom line is the moment they will start to care. I'm not blaming gamers for microtransactions, I'm simply saying that we need to understand the power we have when we put our money where our mouth is. Its time we stood up and demanded a change to the industry that wouldn't exist without us.

[@ssllsg9439]

' This is why even "cosmetic only" microtransactions are unacceptable, because you are signaling to game companies that its ok to make unique / interesting gameplay features inaccessible to people who can't/won't buy them, as long as 10-15% of people do' hmmm...i disagree. cosmetics wont hinder your gameplay,wouldnt it? it wont change anything,except that you look different. cosmetic is NOT gameplay.there is nothing to play if your toon wears a bikini,right?

[@AJ_Ol]

People hate subscription services but look where their removal has gotten us. Subscription services are necessary for an MMO to not have MTX. I’d rather pay 10$ month for consistent content updates and no MTX than play a game that’s very obviously PTW or at least pay to avoid the grind. OSRS is my favorite MMO for this reason, just a flat subscription service and everyone is on a level playing field unless you’re a real loser and RWT

[@bullcherokeee]

This is how i felt about Tera too. I spent 1000s of hours in tera back in the early 2010s and it was honestly some of the most fun i’ve ever had in a game. I really, REALLY miss the way it felt to play back then. But it’s just not the same and it’s become a desert save for a few players who still pay for all the lootboxes and shit.

[@cyclic_infinity]

First, killer pic and name. If you were to recommend 1 album to another metalhead, what would it be? Second, I know the feel. As a lonely, depressed, stressed college student I gave in to some P2W manipulation to feel better, but fortunately for me it was only to the tune of like 50$ before I snapped out of it and quit that game. It's a psychological trap preying on the emotionally and neurologically vulnerable and it is grotesquely despicable. Exploitation of the most vulnerable is a feature, not a bug, of the profit motive. Third, personal responsibility plays a part, of course, but that should never be overstated. Addiction is a disorder of pain and avoidance, and finding solace through externally induced dopaminergic release, whether through games or drugs or work, is a maladaptive method of coping with emotional pain. The ghouls of Capital have discovered that unlike gambling, psychological manipulation through video games is not regulated, and they are exploiting that to the utmost to prey on the isolated, lonely, and unfulfilled. The corporatization of the gaming industry, as inevitable in AAA as it was in Hollywood, inherently involves the stifling of creativity. I'm a passionate layman about game design, and the perverse incentives a "pay to skip" structure creates for designing unfulfilling gameplay sadden me. The lack of self-awareness among many players of their own emotional states in reaction to this (playing out of obligation, not playing for fun) is very concerning to me on a societal scale, as I often see a lack of emotional self-awareness in people in other spheres. There's a top comment on JSH's "What makes a game Pay to Win" video that quite eloquently expounds on this. The commenter rewords the "journey vs. destination" paradigm as a focus on the "goal-state" over intrinsic enjoyment of play for gamers susceptible to "pay to skip" implementations. This is similar to the "achiever" player archetype who continues a game past the point of joy to 100% the developer-decided achievements for an anticipated sense of accomplishment. Anticipation is most often more arousing and euphoric than reward, which can be preyed upon in the moment to coerce a payment out of a happiness-deprived player. For MMOs, the only real solution is robust crowdfunding, which on the scale of funding required has a host of self-selection issues that renders it almost impossible to execute. The scale is simply too great for the passion and creativity that comes out of the indie scene, which has a clear parallel in the blockbuster film. My takeaway of all this, is that whilst I wish critical thinking and education could dig gaming out of this hole, I think we're in too deep. Similar to advertising or corporate deflection to consumer responsibility, there's only so much one can do against blatant psychological manipulation. Any expert on bias will tell you that no one is without bias, no matter how hard they try. This is a similar space; no one is immune from manipulation however "strong" you think your will is. These systems prey on some of our most basic biological drives and mechanisms, and any conflict between the manipulator and manipulated in a system the manipulator ultimately controls will only end one way. Some people will always fall victim, likely enough for the profit motive to keep chugging along. There must be forces external to the manipulative systems regulating them for things to change.

[@MemorableMedia]

It's really filled me with so much sorrow and second-hand regret to hear about this game's decline, which is really a testament to your skill as a creator and storyteller. I've watched a few other videos of yours and with a title like "Worst MMO Ever?" I might've expected a lot of pointing and laughing alongside feigned indignation, but without failure each entry has gone to great pains to explore the intent and artistic merit of each game, even if only on a conceptual level. In summary, looking forward to adding your catalogue to my watch list and seeing more from you in my feed. Keep up the great work.

[@s.z.9517]

I played Neverwinter for years, completed almost all campaigns (and some of them took months of daily grinding), upgraded my stuff, runes, saved tons of coins to buy the best pets, exactly like you did. And from time to time, I had to leave it for a while. Everytime I came back, my high level badass drow rogue was again an average noob character. When they lowered the max level to 20, it killed my love for the game. I feel your pain brother.

[@akomaspaxnwakomaspaxnw3295]

i play neverwinter back on release for a year or so , back in the day was MASTERPIECE , but who ever hit the end game know how painful is to keep supporting this game ,Josh sounded like he had mental breakdown , but who ever hit the end game of this game know exactly the feeling , this is sad , i need a hug :( . Great video man , keep doing what you doing

[@Ri0ee]

I've played a lot of MMOs, and so far, none of them surpassed the level of joy when I was leveling through the story of Neverwinter at around 2013-2014. Beautiful locations, an actually interesting storyline that you actually want to follow - not skip every dialog. Moreover, soon my friends joined me and all this experience improved x100. There was a cemetery location we liked so much that we even started exploring the out-of-bounds territory of it, still got the screenshots :). The amount of story the game gave you was so precisely weighted that as soon as you'd think you've had enough of it - you travelled to another location and started the fresh new experience! It was an honest 11/10 MMO starting experience from level 1 to 60 (?), I have no idea why would they even consider changing something that worked SO well. The foundry was such a unique, well-made and powerful aspect of the game it could've been one of the main Neverwinter selling points both for new players to keep engaged and for veterans to keep them log into the game even if they had nothing else to do farm. As to the endgame - it was well-done, I've completed the 2 and a half out of 3 campaigns there were and it was an enjoyable grind. I've ran some dungeons and the power progression was actually very smooth and balanced there. The game was doing so incredibly well at the start, but managed to lose the most of it so quickly it's unbelievable. Last time I've logged back was at Mar 25, 2016 and already then there was something that made me sad - the game managed to get very broad in content, yet not a single cm deep - that way they could monetize it better. Sincerely, your russian viewer. :) P.S. re-reading this comment and i'm almost crying

[@Thalatash]

We all feel and know your pain, hugs from the USA. I never played this and feel torn about it now. I missed out on some awesome stuff but don't have to feel the sting of your heart break, but like Alfred Lord Tennyson said, "'Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all." It is strange they killed the Foundry, that sounded awesome. Developers should embrace player made content. Look at the modding community, it has kept so many games thriving years after they would have been forgotten all because of the work voluntarily made for free by dedicated fans.

[@AuntSally1]

Totally agree

[@criptin4075]

@@Thalatash Wish I had played it back then now. Like many games you tend to think that you can always just wait and come back down the road and play it but that simply isn't the case when active development takes a bad turn like it clearly did in this game. For many we will never experience the magic this game had but rather a bastardized fraction of what still remains of that magic. =(

[@hermanspaerman3490]

Oh dear, that final sigh and hard swallow at the end screen is heart breaking. I have only had one experience with a game similar to this and it was a board game called World in Flames. I played it all the way from first to fifth edition with all expansions and had a blast for 5+ years. Then came the deluxe edition and the completely revised rules and it all crashed and burned. I tried to adapt in the new environment for a year or two but my heart was not in it anymore. I said my painful goodbye to the game and community. I guess many have a variant of what Josh experienced in this video.

[@sweggs3599]

Had the same experience with pokemon. Loved the games from when I could barely read till sword and shield. Its always sad when people lose their way and their art becomes more about earning cash than being an experience

[@TheWanderingVali]

I used to love this game. I was one of the most powerful Devout Clerics, when they were still called that, when the Cleric was all about more than doubling your entire teams power. I have such fond memories of going on hunts with friends I made in game in the Ravenloft expansion and that stupid boss in Castle Ravenloft that was bugged for months after releasing. Oh! The Fang Breaker Island Dungeon. Good times 😊

[@phazonacide]

Feels like I'm watching someone wistfully remember their time with an abusive ex after time, distance, therapy and healing. Someone who has taken upon themselves to help others protect themselves. Sad, but also inspiring.

[@a-nus]

Pathetic

[@reitairue2073]

wow, yes 100% lol

[@krackencrusader403]

this title gave me chills, after watching alot of your stuff seeing Neverwinter finally appear on the series is like seeing a friend at the supermarket who's been dead for years.

[@GodOfPlague]

Ive had that feeling before. Look a likes of friends long past in stores

[@steveshepherdson8920]

I feel your pain. I started playing Neverwinter when it released and remember the forge where players made content. Sad to see how badly this game has fallen.

[@rynbts]

Man, this makes me sad. I never played Neverwinter, but now I wish I had back in the day. This reminds me of how I feel about WoW; you used to love it but it's become an unrecognizable shell of what it once was. As much as you want to go back to it, you know that what you would go back to, the game as it exists now, is a completely different game. The one you loved no longer exists.

[@Vagabond820]

I’m sure its been said, but it’s bugging me every time it’s said: Neverwinter is NOT based on 5th edition DnD, it is bases on 4th edition. 5th was released a full year after Neverwinter. Neverwinter uses at will, encounter, and daily powers because that was the ability system in 4th ed, and none of which expressly exist in 5th ed (though they exist practically as certain abilities recharge on short rests/encounters and long rests/dailies).

[@Hudson316]

Yeah, the terrible mistranslation of 5e's rules was Sword Coast Legends, not Neverwinter (just like the terrible mistranslation of 3.5 is D&D Online)

[@Rynjinivar]

@@Hudson316 DDO is pretty fun, at least. The rules are nowhere near close to 1:1, but your general knowledge of 3.5 is enough to let you build a competent character out the gate.

[@jpuroila]

As I understand it, it's not really based on 4e either. Which is ironic, given how all the fans of the 3rd edition complained about 4e being "WoW-like".

[@noneatza815]

Imagine how much sadder josh would have been if he figured out how the mount and companion bolster systems work.. Super tldr: the more maxed comps/mounts you have, the more stats the equipped one gives. You can only max mounts in a reasonable amount of time with zen You can max companions with zen or astral diamonds ....or if he knew about mount collars :) Very good review josh !

[@LeopardsinUkraine]

I found your channel through your recent Diablo Immoral videos and I am astonished by the quality of your videos. I've never played Neverwinter, never cared about it. But you managed to make me feel something nonetheless. I think we all have a game that holds a true place in our heart which will never go away completely, but it turned into something despicable. Something that you can't ignore and sugarcoat, anymore. It truly is depressing.

[@RAC00NFANGIRL]

To be honest I love dead space that series was killed by EA and I love fear the video game series so I know the pain having beloved franchise murder right in front of you.

[@viniciustavaresleite1511]

I really felt the pain in your voice, you are a warrior for being able to look back at a game you liked so much and pointing out so much sad stuff for us, I'd genuinely cry. You are incredible, Josh Strife Hayes