WOTM: Religion Makes Philosophers Stupid, Part I

[@andrewede7154]

To paraphrase: "I don't really believe in the literal god of the Bible, but I love the music and the after service coffee time, so good enough for me."

[@istvansipos9940]

plus, I know that a lot of humans with some doubts have some money to buy some books

[@mrsatire9475]

I would expect a universe fine tuned for life to be abundantly full of life, however, in reality the universe is remarkably devoid of life

[@dianarising7703]

Merry end of 2024. Thanks for all you do.

[@misterdeity]

Thanks so much. I'm sending you multiple chances to make a first impression. Enjoy. And Merry Newtonmas!

[@stevewilliams3594]

Thanks!

[@misterdeity]

Thanks so much. Blessings and indulgences are headed your way!

[@finestPlugins]

I can't wait for the next three videos in this two part series. ❤️

[@chrispysaid]

If you weren't brought up in it, you have to convince yourself of things you don't believe in order to CONvert to a profession of faith in a religious doctrine.

[@KynMites]

Or just ignore all the stuff people already in the religion believe is true. As long as their numbers are going down, they won't look hard at your credentials. "OH, you want to call yourself a Christian? Good enough. ADD ANOTHER WIN TO OUR COLUMN." Hell, they even count the Mormons when they tell you how many Christians there are.

[@drewharrison6433]

"This life is filled with an immeasurable amount of injustice and suffering." Dennis Praeger "Like Celine Dion?" Brian Dalton

[@calasia7896]

My woodar started dinging away at 'psycho-physical harmony'. 😆

[@monsterslayer4317]

Hahaha, yeah, he made that up. 😆

[@peterelliott77]

Ask and you shall receive

[@misterdeity]

Look at you - delivering where Jesus can’t (or won’t?). He’s not gonna be happy about you delivering when He can’t. But don’t worry. Mr. Deity has your back. Thanks so much! Blessings and indulgences are headed your way.

[@AmberAmber]

I hate the "against incredible odds" stuff - it appears the odds are 💯٪!! TY so Much BrainyBrian ♥︎♡❥❤︎❤︎❥♡♥︎

[@rafaelallenblock]

As Sabine said, The odds of the current values is 1, and the evidence they could be otherwise is zero, that's why they're called 'constants.'

[@AS74239]

Oooooh, this series is gonna hurt. I already got a nosebleed just from this one. Dammit, Goff.

[@donnievance1942]

Goff just wrote himself out of the history of philosophy, except as a goofy little footnote. This Christianity gambit of his is absurd and downright childish.

[@AS74239]

@@donnievance1942 Agreed. And ooof.

[@Kohout33]

To the most underacclaimed Lou-waiter-forer on the Big Ball, Thanks! Your brilliance is steadfast and your articulate reasoning without sin.

[@misterdeity]

Thanks so much. As you may, or may not know, I was exempted from that whole sin and original sin thing. I don’t know how or why. I just know that’s the way things are. I’m sending you blessings and indulgences. Use them wisely! ❤

[@mattfoley6082]

The versions of Christianity have increased over time instead of converging on a single version. "The One in India has got to be the same as the One in Greece. If it's not, you've got two." --Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig

[@Crimenocerous]

Almost got me to do a spit take with that final throw over to Dennis. Keep up the good work, Mr. D!

[@InigoMontoya-]

Goff’s “Godish” Lord’s Prayer: “Our paternal parentoid figure, whose whereabouts cannot be known. Your name will be synonymous with awesomeness. When apocalyptic stuff happens, we will be doing the things we feel you want us to. Daily bread will be obtained and we will assume you helped. Per our beliefs you won’t get mad about stuff if we say we are sorry, as we don’t get mad at those who apologize to us. Don’t try to negatively influence our behavior, and if good things happen, we will assume you did it. For you are pretty powerful and awfully cool, and we will say so for a very long time. Amen.”

[@misterdeity]

OMG!!! That might be your best yet! Sofa king amazing!!! ❤❤❤😂😅

[@DarylBark]

Absolutely love it! But I think Goff would have ended with, "Athem".

[@beammeupscotty3074]

very nicely done mr. deity, i've reserved a place in heaven 4 you

[@HoneyTone-TheSearchContinues]

“… fine tuning your very own personal god… .” Nice!

[@comix5281]

Thanks!

[@misterdeity]

Thank YOU! Blessings are headed your way.

[@secularsunshine9036]

*Religion makes Stupid.* I'm a life long atheist, as my family is secular and from Sweden. Wishing y'all Holiday cheer. Thousands of years ago long before Jesus, way back in the Neolithic, It is the Sun which is rebirthed in the passageway of an ancient tomb, the Grand Passage Tomb in the Boyne Valley, Newgrange Ireland. In 1350 BCE Amenhotep the fourth created or invented the monotheistic god from the solar disk, then known as the Aten. Some of Amenhotep's work can be found in the bible as Psalm 104 also known as "The Great Hymn to the Aten". Christians pay homage to this man after a prayer, "Amen". Today, our hearts bring back the Light in a celebration from Scandinavia which lasts over several days during the winter solstice known as "Yule". Predating Christianity, Proto-Germanic Paganism originating thousands of years ago. Known as a Norse Pagan festival called "jol" named after the Norse god Odin. The Norse being the ancestors of Vikings with the ancestor of the Vikings dating back over 12000 years ago in Scandinavia. The Rebirth of the Sun being the oldest known winter solstice celebration, we celebrate the rebirth and the warmth of the Sunshine (Love, Peace, Happiness, Goodwill to man)… Have a Wonderful Winter's Solstice. Songs about the sunshine; "kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5POnWWZl5iVnKc" thanks

[@michaelnugent1567]

I don't get how you haven't risen faster on the interwebs... Dennis kook blocking you? So, after this shite election, you're the first 'Tuber to whom I've donated. Keep up the malaprops!

[@toddhensley880]

6:45 This is an amazing point, religion was “fine tuned” to fit human psychology and the nature of the mind.

[@lightningfirst689]

Gotta love the Earth-centric thinking in Goff's limited abilities argument. Apparently, creating absolutely everything from absolutely nothing is a trifle, but dealing with the goings on of one, minuscule speck in all that everything is above God's pay grade.

[@dougt7580]

Given my educational background I hate the FT "argument" with a passion. Assuming the physical constants of the universe are indeed constant, and also independent of one another (neither of which may be true), I ask FT proponents to pick one, and tell me what the range of POSSIBLE values for it are and how they determined that. Given that we have a universe data set of exactly one, the only honest answer is, "I just made it the f up." I also ask them to tell me what probability threshold they determined requires the intervention of an independent mind making intentional choices, and what can occur without. 1 in 100? 1 in a googleplex? How did they decide? If the possibility of something happening is greater than 0, how could one say it occurring MUST have been a choice by an outside consciousness?

[@dantallman5345]

Yes! Are they actually constants and are they independent. I don’t think things are as “brittle” as made out.

[@Nebulax123]

Life fit the circumstances it was presented with. Had the circumstances been different does not mean that life could not happen only that it might be different. Nothing was "fine tuned" life just evolved to fit what was here. When I hear the fine tuning argument I always think sorry you got it backwards.

[@misterdeity]

It’s just another giant failure of the imagination! An argument from ignorance. And yet another god of the gaps!

[@chriscasperson5927]

"I have a cart that I would like to put in front of the horse."

[@misterdeity]

LOL! 😂

[@misterdeity]

That is the essence of religion, innit?

[@InigoMontoya-]

@@misterdeityI think the cart would need to be filled with fantastic things that you can only discover when you are dead, and the horse would be invisible and magical, and undetectable in any way- and able to move the cart from any position.

[@AlexS-pv4rn]

The internet is where religions go to die, and religion is where philosophy goes to die.

[@originalhazelgreene]

I too went through this "well, maybe the grandiose omni god we are taught today is just a product of centuries of exaggeration, and the reality is that there's a god but he's smaller than that" phase, in the process of disproving god to myself altogether.

[@misterdeity]

@@originalhazelgreene The Mormon god is already smaller. So I had nowhere to go. Ha!

[@FredHarvey779]

Thanks Brian!

[@misterdeity]

Thank YOU!!! I’m sending you a self-authenticating way to know that whatever you want to be true is indeed true. Use it wisely.

[@jdm5570]

Happy Wednesday!!! We absolutely appreciate the work you do!

[@misterdeity]

I appreciate that!

[@jimschmitz4848]

I love it when you beg! Even a philosophical question...

[@misterdeity]

So you’re the one! Thanks so much! ❤😘

[@pollypockets508]

Thanks for all you do Brian

[@misterdeity]

Thank YOU! And Hitch bless you!!! ❤

[@TheOwlman]

Philosophers, adding _meaning_ to nonsense since time immemorial.

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

It sounds like he's deliberately and consciously constructed a god he can believe in. Just like everyone else, apart from the adverbs.😉

[@jamierichardson7683]

So finely tuned it required throwing rocks at your favorite rock. Sure. Why not

[@Styphon]

I chuckle any time I hear the nonsense "The Universe is finely tuned for us to exist", because if the person understood anything about astrophysics they would understand that the Universe is incredibly capable of destroying anything in an absolute instant. The best way to put it is that the Universe is finely tuned to destroy everything within it.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

i shouldn't, but i do, find it odd that so many people, while inventing the god of their dreams, don't seem to realise they are, er, inventing god. i always found goff weird, one of those people who can talk or hours and i'm not sure if he actually said anything. oh well, no great loss to our team, i mean, wasn't he already a duelist or some woo woo thing?

[@misterdeity]

Panpsychist?

[@paineoftheworld]

This is akin to the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy*... *This comment was in the first minute and half of the video.

[@petervantol2951]

Tack!

[@misterdeity]

Blessings to you and yours. Indulgences as well! Thanks so much!!! ❤

[@davidhiggen3029]

It sure does. Look at Descartes. Great mathematician, but as for philosophy... he sets out to 'doubt everything', but within three chapters he thinks he has 'proved' the existence of god. One of these days I must sit down and dissect the slippery bullshit he goes through sentence by sentence...

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

@@davidhiggen3029 Descartes really is one of the best examples. Brilliant in other respects, but his arguments for theism are among the worst in the entire field of philosophy of religion.

[@liddybird3608]

As far as physics aligning itself with the creation of life, I always thought it was the other way around. Life has arisen by obeying laws of physics that already existed. If there is some enormous intelligence that exists within the universe, I suspect it is completely indifferent to us and has no interest in our suffering. Our pain and angst is self inflicted and boring.

[@DavidSmith-xs3or]

You can finely tune a piano or a car, but can you finely tuna fish?

[@drewharrison6433]

@@DavidSmith-xs3or Fun fact, you can't finely tune a piano. There are no perfect intervals in standard tuning. It's called Pythagorean intervals. The problem comes down to square roots often being irrational numbers and perfect musical intervals are a ratio between two frequencies.

[@HoneyTone-TheSearchContinues]

Yes, with the right mayonnaise you can tuna fish.

[@monsterslayer4317]

Thank you for that.

[@aubreyleonae4108]

Charlie the tuna was never good enough for Starkist. So sad ...

[@herbertwraczlavski896]

I usually dump huge pile of dis here, but you Mister.. You aree actually insightful while being funny. Thumbs up. Way up.

[@stevewebber707]

I would agree that revising the Christian God to be impotent, would resolve the problems of evil and suffering. Though it becomes even more unfalsifiable. I have no problem believing in the possibility of Gods that don't do anything to interact with us. I do have a problem with seeing how those sorts of Gods were relevant. I suppose he still imagines a God that does some things, but I dare say showing that that God actually does anything is a problem. I don't think accepting a fine tuning argument shows anything except wishful thinking. So if that's his go to proof, color me unimpressed. I do agree Christianity can have utility, especially when you can custom design it to your own specifications. But then so can almost any social group in existence.

[@misterdeity]

It only solves the problem of evil if you also get rid of Omnibenevolence - at least in terms of imagining a god who aligns with the facts of reality. No loving god creates a world filled with an immeasurable amount of injustice and suffering.

[@stevewebber707]

@@misterdeity If the God is incapable of the world he wants, I think it at least muddies the waters. I agree it would be a problem for a perfectly loving God to knowingly create something harmful.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

lol, might as well make god imaginary too? you know, why do things by halves?

[@stevewebber707]

@@HarryNicNicholas That's where I would go, but I'm not trying to justify God's existence. or Christianity's benefits. I thin I share the goals of that particular CONvert.

[@NastyLittleBagginses]

Ah yes. The old "finely tuned banana" argument.

[@InigoMontoya-]

I got a finely tuned banana from Music Go Round, but I broke the strings and the reed, and can’t find replacements- not the Stinson brothers either.

[@KevinRCarr]

lol! I love that he flashed a photo of the glam-rock band Angel around the 2 minute mark when he mentioned angels.

[@mattfoley6082]

Brian, as a musician you'll appreciate this. “Trump Guitars is not in any way officially connected with Gibson”: Trump Guitars backtracks after Gibson cease and desist and takes Les Paul-style guitars off the market. Story at Guitar World site. (I can't post the link.)

[@c.a.t.732]

The whole idea of a non-musician hawking a signature series guitar is so weird. But no weirder than any of his other grifts I guess.

[@InigoMontoya-]

Trump Guitars? I imagine Trump Guitars are lyres.

[@BCole-bj4lv]

We all need more, more Diety. Er, ah .... should I say that? I love to watch you play Whack-a-Mole.

[@brunozeigerts6379]

My last step prior to deconversion was the notion of 'Deism... and the Clock Maker god.' Basically, the notion is that a god created the universe, set it in motion, then said, 'You're on your own... try not to burn the place down.' Then I thought, what's the point in believing in a god you can't interact with? Even if it's just to pray, 'Please don't cook us in your wok...'

[@misterdeity]

Yep. There’s a lot of heavy lifting to do beyond deism to make God relevant. Threats of ECT are one way. But unless we have a reliable way to obtain information about God’s existence, character, and will, there’s no reason to care about God. Which is I call myself an “apatheist.”

[@InigoMontoya-]

How does one “capture Christianity?” I am guessing one might use a perfect net that is outside of space and time, using sin for bait.

[@misterdeity]

LOL! 😂 You are in the zone!

[@altosack]

“A god is not within our universe” So a god doesn’t exist in any meaningful sense, then, huh?

[@sevenpaulperalta929]

We are simply a life form that evolved to self-awareness under very specific and temporary conditions. These conditions will come to pass, and so will we. No need to contemplate meaning or purpose. Simply enjoy yourself while alive.

[@misterdeity]

Amen!!!

[@pb5640]

exactly!

[@Zahaqiel]

Someone needs to really stop Cameron. He's out here capturing Christians and bragging about it! And Christians are just fine with that, apparently.

[@Runpulator]

FACT: If a philosopher believes that he has a special magical invisible friend, then he's a deeply superstitious Magical Thinker and will lose every debate, if he tries debating me and people like me.

[@gregmark1688]

Nah, man, I'd say it's stupidity makes philosophers religious.

[@sheilbwright7649]

One of the many dirty secrets of religion, any religion, is that the mad fundamentalists are correct in their interpretation of their religion.

[@AttentiveDragon]

I’m really amused at how much that one PU clip gets used, not just in this channel but elsewhere in other atheists’ videos too.

[@misterdeity]

It’s absolute gold!!! ❤

[@dyslexictroll8708]

Godish is my new favorite word.

[@misterdeity]

It's good, innit?

[@InigoMontoya-]

It’s rad but not quite; it’s radish.

[@mattfoley6082]

The probability that God has both limited abilities (Goff's God) AND unlimited abilities (Christian God) is 0. In other words, somebody's talking out his ass.

[@kellydalstok8900]

Is that where the talking donkey originates?

[@marknieuweboer8099]

As long as Goff doesn't address Herman Philipse's God in the Age of Science his conversion is not to be taken seriously, philosophically speaking. 1. How can any supposed supernatural entity (god, angel, demon, soul) be a coherent concept? 2. How can we distinguish correct claims about a supposed supernatural reality from incorrect ones? What's Goff's method? 3. What does a supposed supernatural reality add to our knowledge and understanding? No apologist has even tried to formulate an answer.

[@kariannecrysler640]

4:53 Did the god create existing or use what existed?

[@misterdeity]

@@kariannecrysler640 Good question. I don’t think he’s answered that publicly.

[@kariannecrysler640]

@ it’s definitely something worth finding out. I live with the understanding that God’s are not a reality in the universe, but I recognize that I may be wrong & when considering the potential for a god to exist, it had to be of the universe & have no intentions or autonomy. So this was interesting to see something like that be used for an xian facelift. Thanks for finding him lol

[@Raydensheraj]

That we are STILL in 2024 debate morons and their preferred version of invisible supernatural super being....geez😢

[@radiofreeutah5328]

So God was faced with the moral conundrum of knowing his creations would be born into an existence of immeasurable suffering and degradation that will most likely end in eternal conscious torment but, on the other hand, really super duper wanted to create him some life....oh what to do, what to do.

[@misterdeity]

Such a conundrum!!!

[@ushere5791]

yes, and without getting consent from the created first. you can tell lots of "thought" went into that one!

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

Godish thanks!

[@misterdeity]

Godish thanks to you. And Hitchens’ blessing!

[@InigoMontoya-]

Famous atheist, Han Solo (He didn’t even believe in the Force) was not fond of hearing about the odds.

[@inwyrdn3691]

I would say he should try paganism or polytheism, but he seems like he's looking for a pre-made flock to fleece. It's also a lot of work to simultaneously be both completely normal and bat-sh*t insane (I love being called "the most boring lunatic I know" by friends and acquaintances) as we do.

[@AssassinoJake]

Even if god were to be limited, he could at least do something, even small things to actually help hint us about some stuff. Like if i was said god, I'd make sure there would be a thunderstorm always following a certain german guy with a funny mustache to maybe hint that this isn't a good dude.

[@misterdeity]

You’ve stolen my thunder. Pun intended. See: Parts II and III.

[@archapmangcmg]

The way he ordered those "big moments in life" is bad. Birth, marriage, _coming of age_ and death. If you're getting married _before_ coming of age, there's a problem.

[@kellydalstok8900]

He must be an evangelical then, because they are pro child marriage.

[@grumpylibrarian]

Another genius video. I'm gonna be a cheapskate, sorry, but I can give you a standard, non-super thanks for this.

[@misterdeity]

Much appreciated! Thanks for the comment - and hopefully the like.

[@grumpylibrarian]

@@misterdeity I always like your videos within the first few seconds of starting them.

[@machintelligence]

Well, He did it all in six days -- so it was a rush job.

[@misterdeity]

And he had seven - didn’t even come in that last day! What a half-asses creator!

[@brunozeigerts6379]

'Garden slugs.' 'Garden slugs.. he created garden slugs!'

[@thetexasliberal283]

Is this the same philosopher that talks about legs growing back and exorcisms? I wish I was an intellectual because I can’t understand that stuff

[@misterdeity]

@@thetexasliberal283 Not that I know of. 😬

[@thetexasliberal283]

@@misterdeity oh I meant cam from cc. For some reason that guy really annoys me

[@Hal_T]

Why would God need to ADJUST the laws of physics with a FUDGE number that made everything balance?? If you're God, you just create a balanced universe without the need to fudge the results. The need for an adjustment implies that the laws of physics are greater than God. It implies that God couldn't make the universe work without an adjustment. That hardly sounds like a guy I'd call GOD.

[@bubbahargo]

Crocodile tears for YHWH. Shoulda called IKEA for help.

[@misterdeity]

Their instructions are only slightly better than God's.

[@valivali8104]

​@@misterdeity hey! IKEA doesn’t contradict itself in every turn! 😋

[@paineoftheworld]

And the appendix is those damned left over fasteners.

[@valivali8104]

@paineoftheworld appendix is actually useful: it works as place where gut microbes are safe from really bad diarrhea. But something goes wrong with it way too easily, thus making it bad for people in societies where bad diarrhea is rare.

[@paineoftheworld]

@valivali8104 , leftover fasteners are useful too... (⁠｡⁠•̀⁠ᴗ⁠-⁠)

[@deserticus18]

For every convertion to a religión, there is a couple hundred de de-programation or deconvertion

[@c.a.t.732]

I guess a less-than-all-powerful God would explain why prayers are seldom answered. "Gee, I'd like to help you there buddy, but it's beyond my powers to do so!".

[@tomsenior7405]

I respect anyone who has tailormade their own god. If one turns their back on these dangers individuals, who knows what else they have tailormade in their spare time. Rarely is it a fluffy cushion.

[@AmberAmber]

I hear it happens to every god at some time or another! 🤣🤣🤣

[@misterdeity]

LOL!!! 🤣

[@LucreDenouncer]

I don't understand why nonbelievers seeking religious community like this dude don't just go to a Unitarian Universalist church instead of making excuses to buy into and prop up nonsense.

[@chernobyl169]

Because they aren't nonbelievers, they are con men trying to disparage atheists.

[@misterdeity]

Or a Sunday Assembly!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

take up yoga, or pottery.

[@mattfoley6082]

My parents raised us kids as Catholic. My dad stopped going to mass in his 40s when I was about 10. I think he was having doubts. One time he took us to a Unitarian service. My only memory is of thinking how strange it was that they never mentioned God. Years later I started wondering why there are so many different churches and versions of Christianity. At some point if you have a brain it dawns on you that they can't all be true. And once you realize that you ask "Why should ANY of them be true?" and then "Why should ANY religion be true?". These are such obvious basic questions and yet it seems to me that millions of people never think to ask them.

[@jenna2431]

Soooo, a free trial version of god? Not every function works on the freebie. Buy the full version to get rid of ads......

[@misterdeity]

LOL! 😂

[@kentjensen5216]

Psycho-physical harmony? This bit of folderol reminds me of the Alan Parsons' song: Psycho Babble Rap.

[@LarryThePhotoGuy]

I think maybe he's talking about his conception of the soul.

[@misterdeity]

@@LarryThePhotoGuyNo. psycho-physical harmony is different.

[@trevorlunn8442]

It is interesting to see a philosopher *puddle* through trauma in search of psycho-physical harmony... [Apologies to Douglas Adams]

[@Wertbag99]

And all the Christians will point to this guy and say he's made up God, while each holding to a different idea of what God is. God always changes to fit the persons pre-held beliefs, it's the best way to get your sexism, racism and bigotry rubber stamped by the big guy.

[@FrogMcFrog]

Were you in Durant Oklahoma today? Either that you have a doppelganger

[@misterdeity]

@@FrogMcFrog I was not. LOL! 😂

[@misterdeity]

@@FrogMcFrog Oklahoma is one of the states that I have never been to. Been close though!

[@JohnSandlin-e3j]

who's to say that almost any combination of the constants of physics would not allow for some form of life. We only know our form. So any universe that doesn't immediately self destruct itself might be capable of some form of life, just not necessarily us carbon based bags of water.

[@LordSlag]

Oh...this one was SO good...lol! Gods dammit, the demons DO drive better cars. :( My sarcasm lasted more than four hours and I consulted a physician who just high fived me, charged me $500 dollars and told me to go home.

[@misterdeity]

LOL! 😂

Religion doesn't just make philosophers stupid

[@misterdeity]

This is part of a broader series called, “Religion Makes People Stupid.”

[@chagadelica]

You have to be super smart to imagine a Creator story lamer and dumber than the one at the center of the Abrahamic faiths. Jeebus

[@bananaslug.1951]

Thanks! you can tune a piano, but you can’t tune a fish!

[@misterdeity]

Well, now I’m hungry! Thanks so much! I’m sending you a self-authenticating way to know that whatever you want to be true is indeed true. Enjoy!

[@babyfoot-]

Maybe there IS an immeasurable amount of evil and suffering... but maybe there is also an immeasurable amount of good and joy. Maybe it's still better to create than not.

[@misterdeity]

I suspect you’re a person of tremendous privilege who doesn’t really know suffering much at all. Perhaps I’m wrong. Either way, please tell me what great goodness came about for the animals during those 799 million years before humans finally took the stage. What goodness makes up for the predation, starvation, being eaten alive, etc… is it mere survival? Or how about us? What great goodness makes up for The Holocaust, the collectivization of the Ukraine, Mao, the Killing Fields. And that’s just the big stuff. The every day stuff is just as devastating. From disease, to rape, torture, war, oppression, poverty, hunger, etc… Do you have any real idea of just how awful life is for so many. I get it. We are living in the best of times and places in all of history. So the suffering is a bit more difficult to see. But please, make an effort. The world needs your empathy rather than your hand waving.

[@babyfoot-]

@@misterdeity You are absolutely right: I am indeed a person who has benefitted from tremendous privilege and good fortune - and not only my own. My mother, for instance, was fortunate enough to have survived the Nazi invasion of Poland by fleeing with her family to Siberia and starving there for four years, while watching her grandparents perish from malnutrition, cold, and illness. My grandparents were lucky enough to have survived the Russian revolution, two world wars, and unspeakable strife - ultimately to find peace in North America where they were able to thrive and pass on their excellent genes. I am privileged to be one of the beneficiaries of this process, and for that I am immeasurably grateful. There is a lot of yuckiness in the world. I do see that. Do I feel it personally? Not so much. But I see it and understand as best I can. The point I raise is that there is also a lot of goodness and joy. People forget about that, but it matters and deserves mention. How much good and joy is enough to "make up" for the yucky stuff? Who knows. I'm not even sure it's a meaningful question. Of course we should work to reduce suffering among the living, and I assume that's part of your objective in making these videos - which is great - but I wonder whether suggesting that the world is such an awful place that it would have been better if it have never existed is really the best way to go about it. I know that's not the point of the video, but it is an obvious corollary. Here is what I do know: when I talk to people who have truly suffered during their lives and ask them "would it have been better to have never lived?" they invariably answer "of course not!" Why do you think that is?

[@misterdeity]

​@@babyfoot- I think that is because you've asked people who are living nice lives in the industrial West, where they have plenty to eat, secure housing, a society based on human rights, rule of law, due process, etc... If you had asked the 15,000 children who die every day from malnutrition (UNICEF's numbers), or their parents, you might get a different answer. Although, Natural Selection has built into us an almost invincible yearning to live and survive, so you might even get them saying it was all worth it regardless. Of course, that's just the children dying of malnutrition. My daughter was a Childlife Specialist working in palliative care at a Children's hospital nearby. Meaning, it was her job to help children die as well as possible. From just hours/days old to kids in their teens, she watched. Did you know that kids die from the common cold? Did you know some kids spend nearly their entire lives in the hospital? We're so lucky that we don't have to see such things on a daily basis. But there are people all over the world for whom this is still a reality they have to live with every single f&cking day! The people of Gaza this last year for instance. Had I to do it over, I would definitely not have children. Even not knowing what their fate would be. There's just too much risk to force a sentient being into this mess without their consent. But this question has come up in the context of a god who is at least all-knowing and allegedly all-loving. Such a being would never create this mess knowing exactly what would happen. And I don't think you would either if you were in god's spot. Nor would you attempt to obtain some good by asking others to suffer now, right? If you can get something you want which would make your life better, I doubt you'd go after it if it required you to cause the suffering of others. Because you've learned the principle, first do no harm. Unlike The Tribal War god of Abraham. Leaving Him aside, it just seems unbearably heartless to play your little game of balancing the good against the bad. How much good does it take to make up for the rape of a little baby girl? Or a family who's wiped out in a tsunami, leaving only a surviving three year old alone in the jungle to perish over the next week because she's without the means to survive? I suspect that whatever goodness you've experienced - whatever happiness you've secured, has been achieved largely by ignoring such realities, or at least, not giving them priority in your day-to-day life. That's not an accusation. We all do it. Unlike you though, I can't imagine a good, or level of goods which makes up for all the misery and suffering. And if I had to choose between creating this world and nothing, I'd definitely choose nothing. Even without God's omniscience and omnibenevolence.

[@babyfoot-]

@@misterdeity I don't try to balance the good against the bad, that's crazy. I'm aware of both. And yes, I survive by focusing on what I want to see. Does that make me a heartless monster in your eyes? I feel for your daughter doing that difficult work. Sitting here in my comfortable chair, I doubt I would be able to do it... but then I think back over the (comparatively minor!) ups and downs I've had in my life and observe how the "normal" bar always manages to shift with the context so that I've always got something to gripe about and something to aspire towards. So maybe I'd rise to the occasion. As for forcing a sentient being into this mess without their consent... I dunno. Seems to me that we give our consent every day by not... you know... well, by continuing to be here. We do have options, and most of us vote with our feet. In the end, we can be grumps and see the cup as half - or mostly - empty, or we can find what good there is and focus on it without keeping score. I find that the latter approach improves my world and that of the folks around me, and that's something concrete I can do. Related question: are you a vegan? (I'm guessing that the answer is yes)

[@misterdeity]

​@@babyfoot- The point is not to cast aspersions. It never occurred to me that you or anyone were/was a heartless monster. Such people are a genuine rarity - thank Hitch! I just don't think people have a grasp on how horrifically awful life is for some, and how awful it was for literally everyone 200,000 years ago - and continues to be for animals struggling every day just to survive. Along with many of the humans here, the animals don't have the luxury of seeing the glass half full and focusing on the good. Nothing they can do improves their world or the lives of those they care about. All they can do is struggle to survive until they die (a frequently horrific death). As for our consent, we have been born with an overwhelming propensity - far beyond our ability to choose or reject, to survive and make the best of it. Otherwise, our species would not have survived (another reason to reject the silly notion of free will). So, I don't think our voting with our feet is very meaningful. Especially considering that our species was doing the same when things were truly miserable. Biology is a difficult thing to overcome. But don't think that I go around wallowing in the horror. I'm not the slightest bit grumpy. Indeed, I know how incredibly lucky I am to be living in this time and place, and experiencing as little suffering as I do. Ten years ago, I had a medical scare which potentially threatened my life. And all I could feel was lucky to have gotten fifty years of the good life, without a fly landing on my eyeball every 20 seconds and knowing nothing but hunger. Your initial comment was about it possibly being better to create than not. That implied a god - perhaps Goff's limited god(?). If that being is as Goff believes, still all-knowing and all-good, I cannot see a case for a perfect being, lacking nothing (but omnipotence) creating a world filled with evil, suffering, immeasurable justice, and thinking that would somehow be better than remaining alone in his/her/their perfection. Perfection doesn't need a plus one. And anything less than perfection is a giant step down for such a being. As for your final question, I call myself a non-practicing vegan. Meaning that I am totally aligned with the goals of veganism, and recognize it as a morally superior way to live. In this regard, I am a moral failure. But I get closer all the time. I happen to be a super taster, so there are very few foods I eat in the first place. As I get older, my tastebuds are dying out and I am able to enjoy more vegetables and fruits. Still very few at this point. But I also eat very little, and probably have at least 3-4 days a week were I eat nothing but vegetarian.

[@jdm5570]

Phillips Goff: my epistemology is lacking, as is my knowledge of physics and biology, so I'm going to phrase it in nonsense and clothe myself as a "philosopher" and sell idiots my book.

[@zhengfuukusheng9238]

*CORRECTION* Religion makes all of its believers stoopid

[@johndemeritt3460]

Three quick comments . . . or maybe two and a question. First, "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth!" Second, the god this describes is Red Green, throwing stuff together in The Handyman's Corner, all held together with Duck Tape. And, just as the great prophet Red Green shows us, the god of this universe throws it all together on the fly, with no forethought about all the ways things can go wrong. Which, of course, is why we have Edgar K.B. Montrose around -- you can count on him to blow it all up when things get . . . weird. Finally, one question: isn't it a sacrament on this channel to say "Go Devils!" whenever PU is mentioned? Go Devils! I wouldn't want to incur a curse because I forgot to invoke _that_ magick!

[@InigoMontoya-]

God, like internet service, apparently has different price plans?

[@janmillerstopmotion]

Incredible evens!

[@mavrosyvannah]

The divine does not exist.

[@misterdeity]

@@mavrosyvannah Not a John Waters fan, huh?

[@mavrosyvannah]

@misterdeity is he a fan of mine?

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

@@mavrosyvannah Lol, he's making a reference to the drag queen/actor Divine who starred in at least one of John Waters movies in the 1980s.

[@cthellis]

The “odds” thing has of course always been silly, since we have no known inputs nor results list to compile anything like “odds.” But I’ve always found the decision to describe the “just right for the formation of life,” especially from philosophers, to be particularly careless. “Just right for ?” Like…. How is that not the biggest confirmation biasing possible? Why wouldn’t you say “just right for the formation of asteroids” instead? Surely we would find that much more compelling! There are so many more asteroids out there! Or surely “just right for the formation of black holes” is much more compelling. They’re so huge and important and all over the universe rather than trapped in one little rock! They hold galaxies together! Therefore “wow think of the odds that make the universe just right for the formation of black holes oh yes and also because of that some life formed one place or something too”

[@jjpopnfresh6822]

So we've moved from the all powerful omni-god to John Waters' Divine. That's progress.

[@klodius8588]

Oh no! Not another variant Christian deranged symptom.

[@charlesparadis5716]

thanks Bri Bri