Diablo 4 - Why Rerolling Is So Unforgiving...

[@wudijo]

Any other ingame system you want us to investigate?

[@nycionx8328]

Do u think MWing is also weighted? Like the chance to crit skill ranks is harder than other affixes (more than 20%, 1/5)? It's costing me alot of pit mats and gold to reset MW just to 2x crit ranks..

[@buscôO-sensei]

Tempering! I bricked 8(!) crossbows with greater affixes trying to get vulnerable for my one shot rogue

[@Sheeya97]

I'm curious what you think about having only 3 affixes on legendaries as a limiting factor on end-game scaling, and its promotive value towards power creep/overbuffing base values. To clarify: With only 3 affixes on legendaries, and 4 on Uniques, the amount of power we can get from gear is limiting us to pits 115-135 ish, and the only way to get us from that to pits 200 (without nerfing and redesigning pits), is to create stupidly overpowered uniques, or overbuffing existing affixes and/or classes base-values. In either case it will make the lesser tiers more and more irrelevant (just like how WT4 is doable at level 35 for some builds) and pits 50-100 at that point might be the same as the current pits 1, effortless. Personally I think having only 3 base-affixes on legendaries and 4 on uniques is the factor causing this problem, currently. If items had 6+ affixes, or guaranteed 3 affixes with a chance to have extra affixes up to 6+ (and my thought is that getting 3 good/useable affixes even with 6+ affixes will be about as difficult as finding items with 3 useful affixes today) - so getting your bis items will become that much harder, but it will also allow us to scale up to higher Pit Tiers, without directly messing up the balance of lower-tier content. They could also add more interesting affixes. Even some affixes that might not be necessary in lower-tiers, but when you reach higher and higher tiers these affixes might become crucial but wouldn't have had a place with only 3 affixes on items. Would leave room for getting resistances on gear and not have it become obsolete through paragon/int/jewelry gems. I'm not saying this is a flawless system, and that this is the best option, but I feel like we need some kind of system that allows us to scale higher in an interesting and fun way, from playing longer. I think it would increase the longevity for seasons too, as I feel like many players will find themselves having experienced close to the limit just from 1-1.5 months of playing in a 4 month season. Last Epoch has a system like this with their 4LP legendaries I guess.

[@Xadoras]

@@buscôO-sensei Yeah that tempering is so fucked up. It doesnt feel great even start tempering some GA Items, because for some builds there's like 90% fail chance

[@grasgruen84]

the biggest hint that something is wrong is the fact that most of the times my char has 3-6 items in inventory that could be better than what i am wearing. could be if you can temper and reroll them. rerolling is such a mood killer i never had any gold this season, if i had some gold i all spent in instantly on some rerolls. but you should not mention trade as a possibility to fix gold problems, because that only fixes it because gold is botted and bought for real money.

[@altric]

The weighted system feels so bad.

[@animalchin5082]

Stats should be weighted but maybe not this much

[@ЕфимМушаков-ъ1б]

Why cant they just have equal chances to appear, equal weights ?

[@Cameron-fk5fk]

Agreed, id rather Brick 10 items that reroll 1 passive

[@nycionx8328]

​@@Cameron-fk5fkno lol

[@phrozenliquidz]

​@@animalchin5082 stats should NOT be weighted... Hate this take

[@enthusiasticgamer88]

What irks me is finding +skill on gloves. Nearly every build needs it yet it's seemingly wildly rare. It took me hundreds of hours to find good +skill gloves for each of my three chars this season. That's an unreasonable grind.

[@trevorworkman2060]

Neck is even worse for some builds imo. but yeah, gloves and neck are the holy grails of hard to optimize. add tempering limits on top of it and it's big sadge.

[@via_negativa6183]

Took me deep into the pit like level 65 before I found a +frozen orb gloves I found a shako first ... Ridiculous.​@@trevorworkman2060

[@ЕфимМушаков-ъ1б]

Also gloves often have +res, most of the time, which is worthless

[@christophluger793]

there should be stats that are rare, you can still play it without + skills. It's called progression, and ARPGs are that way.

[@gekkiman1227]

Not that stupid rare, because you have to wasted 1 billion hold to get the right reroll, or reset Master work ​@@christophluger793

[@txchainsaw8907]

The devs still don’t get that everything gets reset in a few months and there are multiple classes with multiple builds. Give the players loadouts, character rebirth, free skill/paragon resets, and even out that weighted stuff on the gear so we can try and temper something useful in the short time we got…

[@Lumerlume11]

I've basically completed my character with full 2GA minus the ubers and the next season isn't for 1.5 months. Now I have no reason to play. Thankfully, last epoch comes out next week..

[@txchainsaw8907]

@@Lumerlume11 “Character” as in singular?

[@Lumerlume11]

@@chuckles9767 No, everything on my character is stuff i've found. One usable 3ga or just 1, period? If you've played 100 hours and only found a single 3ga item i don't think you're playing very efficiently. i've found tons.. almost all of them are garbage though, and a few of them i'm wearing and rolled an affix off.

[@Lumerlume11]

@@chuckles9767 Have you tried tormented lord zir? He's much easier than Duriel and actually drops more loot. Almost an entire bags worth.

[@Guest-iy3tc]

@@chuckles9767just started playing and I’ve found plenty however I’d say maybe 10% or less of the triple GA are useful really wish some affixes scaled and aren’t flat

[@sermerlin1]

I made a rule to myself. If i see a semi good item (has a chance to be BiS with affix reroll), Once it passes the temper check, I give myself 4-5 tries. If it doesn't roll what I need I say fuck it. There is no chance in heck i'll spend 5-10 million per roll to keep getting trash rolls. I'll rather spend that time farming for another chance.

[@tflydr]

finding a double passive amulet is insanely rare, worth spending the gold to hit the 3rd passive if u find one tbh.

[@dr.vegapunk5853]

@@tflydr yea well it wont matter if it doesnt pass the tempering check cuz you can brick that item

[@Dracwahl]

​​@@dr.vegapunk5853yep, my first GA i found was a 3 GA amulet and i bricked it on temper 😭

[@tflydr]

@@dr.vegapunk5853 he quite literally said 'once it passes the temper check' so my point stands.

[@CDPowell]

I tried this a couple of days ago on the PTR since gold and resources are practically unlimited from boosting fresh toons. I was trying to get +2 Exploit on an amulet. I spent over 2 billion gold before it rolled at +2. At about 4.5 mil per roll, that's almost 450 rolls to get what I wanted. Those odds are indefensible.

[@moeyalawn]

Blizzard knows all of this, they don't want you to find good items easily, they want you grinding until you're old and grey. This is their fix for loot. They got rid of the damage on Tuesdays and replaced it with get the roll you want once in your lifetime. They weighted all the good stuff so you get mostly trash items.

[@nycionx8328]

Yes old and grey yet a season only lasts 3 months max and basically no one continues to play in eternal but instead a new season meaning all from scratch.. Either make seasons longer or improve the weighting of good affixes cuz I'm rdy to stop playing until next season

[@stonecold91]

Longer seasons would be bad, but fixing reroll would be great. Or they can make gold and mats not important so we can roll for 3-4 hours to get what we want.​@@nycionx8328

[@0ihatetrolls01]

i dont get why they do this, on d3 you can get a solid char to tier 100 rift pretty easily, then if you're inclined you can grind further, or go for the season mechanics and not worry about loot, you can go and make an alt and get them geared up easily too, it makes me want to play MORE, last season I spent ALL OF MY GOLD trying to re roll 1 item to make it good then I just quit lmao

[@adamjohanssonn]

@@0ihatetrolls01 getting to tier 100 in diablo 4 doesnt take that much either, diablo 3 has so many paragons so a ton of main stats which does help, and set items with 40k x dmg

[@0ihatetrolls01]

@@adamjohanssonn idk the gearing just didn't agree to me, they've deffo made some good changes, but in terms of a fully fleshed out build with every piece you need it'll be fkin 10x longer in d4, think I just miss set items and not playing stash management the game

[@honestinsincerity2270]

I totally get them thinking the skill passives should be hard, or harder than other affixes, to roll. But making them all less than one percent is just fuckin crazy. Especially considering it's even less than that when you consider you have a lower chance to roll the higher +2 stat, as opposed to the +1. Making it that low basically means only the most dedicated players with 900 billion gold will be okay with just dumping as much money as needed to finally win the passive skill lottery.

[@JROCThaGreat]

Still gotta farm hella Angle breath

[@MrXBOCAX]

And you can still brick it with tempering lolz

[@xOni-lll]

@@MrXBOCAX never reroll before tempering.

[@MrXBOCAX]

@@xOni-lll My point was that, even if you do have an amulet with +2 whatever you need, it can still be useless if you don't get good enough rolls with tempering. So you restart the lotto of finding that good of an item again

[@xOni-lll]

@@MrXBOCAX Yeah all this unnecessary weighted RNG is just turned me off, its not fun and I won't contiune to spent 100s of hours each season. I love the game though.

[@NikoWrex]

I remember your idea you talked about on stream I really liked. You said, and I’m paraphrasing, gear could drop with more common stats like HP and Primary Stat but, enchanting should be weighted towards the more desirable affixes like skill/passive ranks, attack speed, cooldown etc… Haven’t watched the whole video yet but I liked that idea.

[@buzzb7848]

That ist exactly what he mentions in the video

[@SilkStorm_101]

There is too much random rolling in the crafting. In season 4 I only got Golem ranks on one item and then it was bricked by the tempering, in the PTR I got the same tempering result 13 times in a row and bricked all 3 rings I was trying out. Blizzard thinks yes you have to play longer to get items to replace them, while I think it is not worth it and stop playing. Don't get me wrong, the season 4 changes were far better than what we had before, but it is too random and still leads to giving up on a season earlier than if I really want to.

[@nycionx8328]

Bro have u watched the video? It's not random, it's rigged. Stop using the word random otherwise all affixes wud have equal chances to roll but they don't. Remove the word random from Ur head when playing d4. Rigged.. Rigged.

[@SilkStorm_101]

@@nycionx8328 yep watched the video, was pointing out that enchanting is not the only aspect of crafting that you have no control over. The tempering is harder to see if there is a weighting to the options because of the limit on the number of rolls, so I was giving them the benefit of the doubt on the tempering rolls although it feels like they are weighted as well.

[@richjacques]

What I would like to see is this understanding of rarity change the way that Maxroll creates build guides. If a certain combination of affixes that looks like 'god roll' in the planner is also rarer than a unicorn, it creates an unrealistic goal for the vast majority of players to stick it in the guide. Readers tend to fall into the trap of thinking "it's in the guide, so I need it", even if the guide actually mentions that there are 2nd or 3rd best options. Two specific ideas: 1) you could build some kind of capability into the planner that shows roughly how rare a given combination of affixes might be, using this data. That way, both the people making the planner and people consuming it can see how realistic a given combination might be. 2) Maxroll should give serious consideration in the "Endgame Variants" and "Build Scaling and Stat Priorities" section to stat rarity. If "Damage on Tuesdays" is the best stat, but "Damage" is only 1% worse and 50% easier to get, I'd want that called out.

[@MediocreMilton]

It feels like tempering is weighted as well. For example trying to get movement speed on boots which should be 25% as there's only 4 options but it rolls far less often than that. I also noticed that when trying to roll chance to cast twice for a skill the one I want seems to appear far less often than it should statistically almost as if they lower the frequency if you have that skill chosen in the skill tree. I might test the latter myself to see if this is true.

[@MitsuteruCrowe]

A few days ago I made the decision to drop playing Diablo 4 for now. I had a lot of fun this season. I am a casual player and finally get a few characters up to 100. However, when i tried to follow build guides i quickly realized i needed certain stats, particularly on Amulets. I spent a Saturday afternoon looking for Malice, but didn't find it. I then realized i had not seen it, ever. Not on drops or on re-rolls. It was in that moment that i realized... "yeah... i'm done". However, it wasn't only because of the low chances of finding what i want... but rather it was because of the thought that I may find it and then brick the item. For some players, playing Diablo 4 (or at least making a character) after a certain point becomes a waste of time.

[@wiznz3659]

Its so shit trying to re-roll gear. Skipped gear the whole levelling phase, only to find that rolling gear is the real end-game in D4

[@youngwang5546]

Remember the days when we had priority stats on enchanting? Like gloves and rings were guaranteed to reroll crit rate and attack speed? Cdr was a priority roll on helm and neck too… those were the good days.

[@x3TripleAce3x]

crit and attack speed are still very common from enchanting

[@droid5785]

Who cares that's irrelevant to the main comment. ​@@x3TripleAce3x

[@tarasouthwell6132]

i think having a way to lock stats would be a huge W for casual players. for example, let's say there's a currency you can spend that allows you to lock out potential reroll stats, so that if there's something you would find completely useless on a certain piece, it's taken out of the pool of possibilities entirely. or they could make a progression system for the occultist, where the more times you reroll, the occultist "learns" from their experience working on your gear. it would also be a way that we could work toward higher rolls. if the occultist simply couldn't offer you lower rolls than the current stat, you would keep narrowing down the pool until the max was guaranteed. they could also apply this to the blacksmith for tempering and masterworking. it would make progressing through the season feel more like an over-arcing progression. you do your baby tempers at the beginning, and even though you may have bricked some things, the fact that you interacted with the system provided you with gains that would benefit you in the end game

[@darkdemise99]

What really gets me is when I find a piece with ranks on gloves or something and then immediately brick it with tempers..

[@V22Steamer]

I have (3) Rogue builds all at 100 with Glyphs maxed. I've bricked more than (50) +2 GA items this season for Rogue. I've only found (4) + 3 GA items and bricked (3) of them. It's infuriating!

[@billylo1992]

Went through soo many amulets with 2 of the right stats that either never roll the 3rd stat or it bricks before or after the enchanting.

[@terryfredrick5149]

Its like this with tempering to. They made these systems to keep you on that hampster wheel.

[@romeos316]

I'm so glad you made this video I was almost certain there had to be more to it than me just being unlucky. I've been playing Andurials rogue and grinding my @ss off for about a week. Still yet to roll or even FIND a Frigid Finesse amulet after spending over 100m on rolls. It's so exhausting Thanks again for clearing that up,I feel much better now😂

[@DavidLee07]

Blizzard needs to remember that you can only roll ONE stat on an item and you're stuck with the other two. Given that we're only changing a single stat, the rolls should be more weighted in favor of the player. Changing one stat doesn't give you a godly item; it just gives you the chance to find what you need to fit your build. Also, they could make the situation better by equalizing more traits so there wasn't such a huge range between 10 lousy build archetypes and two effective ones. You know, allowing players to actually roleplay a bit.

[@Dunc4n1d4h0]

Thanks for highlighting this... When I told about rolls are set-up like devs hate players I was downvoted to hell.

[@asum7786]

I played Minion Necro in S4 and tried to find a good Amulet with + Hellbent Commander. Throughout the entire season, finishing everything and gambling everything on Amus, it's not like a found some bad Amulets with a good Hellbent roll, or some good amulets with a bad roll - I straight up never saw the passive even once. That's just stupid. Especially if you want a combination of Rare rolls, like 2 passives and CDR - you might as well quit and not even try.

[@SpockCanYouSaveme]

Yeah I’ve been looking for +hellbent commander since S4 launch and haven’t found 1 at all.

[@glennsmetaniuk2590]

And the flipside of that coin is I got so many +2 exploit or +2 malice amus that were non tradable. I know rogues want them and I couldn't sell them at the peak. So frustrating.

[@justdust9089]

Big thanks for testing to ava, and confirming that is really a pain.

[@Drainzey]

These Numbers are crazy af. Noticed that so far i had insane Luck with my exploit, malice etc necks. Best example is my exploit GA with LH. Rolled malice for only 25mil. Thanks for the information wudi!

[@Tobez]

Agreeed. Enchanting seems unnecessarily punishing to the point I barely interact with the system anymore. The game should definitely be more gear customization friendly.

[@toondeath5450]

I beat all the tormented bosses with my heartseeker rogue and minion necro, beat pit 114 as my PB before i got bored, got grandfather on necro, harlequin crest on rogue. Not once did I see an amulet with malice or exploit on rogue, or hellbent commander on necro. not one for either

[@TheRealMrGordons]

I believe you. I had 3 hellbent commander amulets that I bricked in a row after saving them up

[@DanielgunKim]

Now do all this in hc as I did with the achievements you had. Far more rewarding and fun. Hc is the only way to play Diablo man.

[@rodrigokuhn5628]

I have an amulet with exploit, malice and weapon mastery (no GAs tho) but it cost me over a billion AND alot of luck. I rolled trap mastery 3 times a alch 2 times before getting exploit

[@corpsefoot758]

@@DanielgunKim So long as D4 is full of ridiculous bugs, dying in HC is just one giant waste of time lol

[@nomad4594]

​@DanielgunKim dying to nothing seems soo fun.

[@c-tothefourth4879]

They should have a system where if stats appear from a reroll and you pick neither, those stats cannot appear again until you select something to keep.

[@memory_null]

That would be terrible if you already had a decent item and you we just trying to get a higher roll of something easy like life or main stat. In your scenario, you would have to take every life roll, even if it was lower that what you had, to keep getting life rolls.

[@TheApexSword]

You're obviously stupid or something. If you had low CDR and wanted to roll for CDR you'd just keep selecting it until you get max. This new proposition would make you get max 10x faster than the weighted system. Especially for less common stats. Open your mind before naysaying next time​@@memory_null

[@c-tothefourth4879]

@@memory_null Considering life is extremely common, it doesn't matter.

[@ja-no6fx]

or instead of that, after a certain amount of failures you could pick a desired affix and it would have a higher chance of being rolled, and that cycle would continue until you got the affix u wanted

[@Persian_Mafia]

i told this to blizz during s4 ptr, they didn't give a poop. I told them, remove resists and few others and move them to mastercrafting

[@thimmoftw7847]

Haven't collecte any data, but i rolled a really good Amulet for frigid finesse with over 600 million gold and did not see it once. Trashed it afterwards, because I can't control my emotions in the way blizzards demands me to. I like almost all the itemization changes in S4, but rerolling stuff breaks me

[@show1011011]

That checks out with me rolling gloom on my amulet as well. It took me a billion gold and I saw it 2 times before I got the roll I wanted.

[@thenorfire900]

My man! I was noticing in one of P4wnyhof's a while back that talked about enchanting how you have a more greater chance to roll near whatever stat your enchanting on the list. After much recent testing it kind of holds true. Observing the list of what can roll even if it's a long list if you want say skill near the bottom. Most rolls that are on the list in your video looks based on hitting "no change". I've been down the bottom of that barrel many a time bankrupt my self over and over. But recently I've learned it's best to select a skill in that long list that is close to the stat your aiming for. It still has the chance to start from the top but I've noticed it'll get closer to the area of where the stat I'm rolling for. So basically pick any stats that are close to the one you want off the list and then roll "no change" till it rolls the one you want. If I still see top skills popping too often when I want skill stat near the bottom i'lll portal to another city usually opposite on the map to try again and portal to any other closer cities if need be. I used to do this for D3 back in the day. All in all I know it's not the greatest solution, but trying to understand how each type of roll whether we skip and hit "no change" or choose a stat to hold us till we get to the stat were looking for I find useful, but the rng may still be a thing as I was having quite a bit of luck with this method on PTR. Not sure if it'll hold weight when I go back to season 4 and so forth. I honestly did not notice the price jump up a bunch from choosing a stat. I know once upon a time it used to but now only seems to jump after 10 or 20+ tries and then your in the millions. ✌

[@johnmichaelarnaud]

Early in the season I found a sacred Devouring Blaze/Permafrost amulet on my first-ever sorcerer and rolled off the Permafrost because I didn't know what was good. Sigh. That could have been my amulet for the rest of the season.

[@Sknerus89]

% chance on lucky hit to make enemy vulnerable. I rolled it in first 3-4 tries on some ring with 1 GA. I was using that ring for so long, until eventually I figured out it's time to make my 2 GA ring into my gear and temper/reroll it. So 600M gold later, I still havent got that lucky hit chance to make enemy vulnerable. It will go higher. And for amulets, I dont even bother with rolling a passive. I just grab amulet with GA on a passive I want and roll something useful, like cdr and call it a day, with 3rd roll being kinda useless for me but it's fine, build works. Finally, the problem with rerolling is that you get 2 rerolls to choose from, in d3 it was 3. Why it's 2? That would actually solve the headache whilst still keeping it hard... just without headache :)

[@JDMStav]

So this is why I never found a single amulet with Hellbent Commander on it for my minion necro... I got up to 120mil gold leveling my main to lvl100 and blew 100mil just trying to roll a +2 skill on my gloves. I ran out of Anglebreath then and just gave up. 100mil spent with nothing to show for it. Feels very bad man.

[@djproject1820]

I have got a few + Hellbent Commander amulets, but the other two affixes are normally crap. The enchanting and tempering mechanics don't do it any favors.

[@PseudoNym100]

When d4 first came out the occultist was weighted. Then blizzard said oops, that was a mistake and fixed it. And now it's back lol.

[@Holztransistor]

So they reintroduced the priority system?

[@chetbudreau5232]

It is the blizz way .. they take then give it back and say look what we did.

[@Minazuki.Infinity]

@@PseudoNym100 gotta inflate those gametime hours at the cost the game being fun to play .

[@PseudoNym100]

@@chetbudreau5232 lol yeah. It's like when I give my dog a bath (she hates it) and then I 'rescue' her by getting her out of the tub.

[@SolvingTheMoneyProblem]

We should be able to do a “boosted” re roll, e.g. gamble with Neathiron or other valuable mats to boost chance of landing a rare roll IMO.

[@nintandao64]

either scrap the weighted affixes idea, cut the gap between the common ones vs rarest ones, or have a rare item drop that gives u the power to force a stat of ur choice onto an item when enchanting this degree of randomness when rerolling especially considering the gold costs is not fun in any way

[@YuzumiNoya]

Ty for the coverage brudermann

[@MrMuggsly]

I honestly quit playing the necro because I spent so much on the amulet trying to get the commander passive. It was insane!

[@VargVikernes1488]

Can confirm that most gold this season was spent on rerolling affixes and masterworks at tier 4. I don't think we need this big of a second gold sink after they introduced masterworking rerolls

[@ph1shstyx]

The weighted system is what is is, what gets me is how expensive re-rolling an item gets as quickly as it does. Compared to D3, it's at least 5x as fast to get to 1 million gold cost. This wouldn't be nearly as significant as it is if the gold cost didn't get as expensive as it does as quickly as it does. Reducing the gold cost of re-rolling an attribute would go really far in how much more enjoyable the game would be.

[@jacobbono]

My primary compliant in season 4 was that I feel like the system should not be set up to create "bricked" items. If I get a crazy good drop, I can't even get excited about it because I just expect it's going to end up unusable. You essentially need to risk bricking every item you get twice. Once when tempering, and then again when enchanting. I would guess that most casual players are like me and do not want to continue re-rolling an item after it gets to ~1.5-2M per reroll. At that point, it is usually faster just to farm for a new item and try again. While I love a lot of the changes they made in season 4, this whole experience really takes the thrill out of item farming. I'm hoping they make some improvements going forward.

[@Colonel_Klink]

Always felt the re-rolling enchants and the tempering system have felt insanely unrewarding and difficult, especially the tempering system with constantly bricking items with no way to re-roll after the 6 rolls.

[@Arthur.S.H]

Tbh i'm really disappointed with D4 Game Designer. S4 just barely resembles an ARPG game, and now they’re already starting to release DLCs with such exorbitant prices, despite the late-game content still being extremely lacking. Take S4 for example, tempering and masterworking do provide some diversity in late-game builds, after spending a lot of time exploring, players have found that each class only has about 1-2 viable builds (except for the Barbarian). Additionally, the triple anti-endgame mechanism is very frustrating. From ancient affix drops rates to tempering and then masterworking, each layer has a strict pseudo-random mechanism. I understand that the designers want players to have a rogue-like experience, but the numbers are simply too overwhelming. In other ARPG games, at least there wouldn’t be such exaggerated barriers at so many levels. Either make tempering easier or increase the drop rate of ancient afflix gear, instead of what D4 is doing now, where each part seems to consume an excessive amount of our time. It’s really hard to imagine what kind of content the DLC could offer under this "personality of the game“

[@finraziel]

This weighting system often just means I quit my characters shortly after hitting 100... I've gone in pit a bit and masterworked a bit, but since my items arent very good I don't feel like investing too much, and getting the really good items is just insanely hard. So I don't bother. Luckily the leveling process is very much fun, I have 6 level 100s now and 2 others close. But still this (weighting) is not a good way to try to increase longevity of the game. I guess it could work, but the chances as they are now are just insane, they should bring them a lot closer together so we see some other options than life/main stat and completely worthless affixes like life on hit (seriously, is Blizzard just trolling us with this or are they really so clueless to think that anyone could ever think this was useful? it's kind of sad but I think that yes, they might be...)

[@greganastas]

I think it has getting worst in S5 because now you can roll multiple resistances on an item making the pool bigger.

[@ocdhead]

It would be cool if there was a small chance to roll a random greater affix at the occultist.

[@PhrazeMuzik]

Add a bounty system for the super rare mobs, buff them up to level 200, make them drop new crafting materials so I can craft equipment from rares. They drop unique rare items as it is, why not use them as a base for crafting BIS items. You still have to hunt for GA items. Perhaps you could add another system later on which allows a crafted item to absorb a greater affix. Also brings the overworld back into relevance outside of helltides.

[@victorsoto4821]

I ended up having a crit chance, heavy handed, cut to the bone non GA amulet drop and decided to masterwork it to 12 and crit the heavy handed 3 times, which now it's a +6 heavy handed, 13% crit chance, +3 cut to the bone amulet and surprisingly didn't brick my tempers lol probably the luckiest Item I manage to put together this season.

[@Reslivo]

In my opinion, they should group the re-rolls into categories: Offensive (damage, vulnerable damage, LHC vuln, LHC, life on kill, resource on kill, etc), Defensive (resistances, armour, max life, max resource, movement speed, etc), Skills (+ranks to #), and Passive (all passives), depending on the item you're rolling and what's available. Allow re-rolls in one particular category, but once you choose that category you're stuck there. As passives and skill ranks are highly sought-after, have them cost more than other re-rolls - around 1.5x the material cost per roll. The upside being every affix in each category has an equal chance of being rolled, and nothing is weighted anymore.

[@BuriedDutchman]

Or an option that's easier to code: Give us 4 options per reroll and remove %dmg Or even better (optionally in combination with extra choices): rebalance the weighting

[@himay333]

You could even use your system, but you can only reroll within the affix you choose to reroll. So if you have a perfect pair of gloves with the wrong core skill, you can reroll to another core skill. Maybe weight the cost based on the number of possible outcomes in the category.

[@Nicks-AI]

The best affixes should be hard to get. But < 1% is ridiculous. In Season 4, I traded or waited for the drop

[@the1deadman543]

Trying to get thorns for me has given me ptsd. Barrier generation. Barrier generation.. barrier generation.... BRICKED

[@pol5ki]

I agree. Don't make it easy, but also, don't make it a grind of playing the games for years to get perfect stats on an item or spending bilions on a roll. There needs to be some sort of balance.

[@DarkPassenger]

Customizing our gear is one of the most rage inducing and tedious things about this game right now. Masterworking will crit on the most useless stat 9 out of 10 times for me. Tempering gives me everything but the thing I want, and enchanting costs millions and rarely gets you what you want.

[@insomniaddictesp]

I bankrupted myself twice just to get a rank roll to Blight on my gloved. 40M spent, not a single skill rank roll, forget Blight. Since I got nothing, I was told don’t even bother rerolling.

[@johnol2380]

40m is literally nothing lmao

[@natthansenteni]

In the PTR, the Enchanter wasn't weighted (I suspect it's because it was running off a S3 build base rather than S4 base) and it felt SO MUCH better.

[@tomtomkowski7653]

I figured this out quite a long time ago that no matter how many good GA a dropped item has if it doesn't have the specific stat you need (Malice, Exploit, Ranks to skill, etc) is useless and you can just sell/salvage it right away. Solution: we should be able to pick f.g. 5 stat we want to roll and gamble to get them with the best rolls possible. This is a very bad design in that the most obvious and desired stats have such low roll chances like Movement Speed with Boots or +Ranks with Gloves/Pants.

[@Ziseth]

2:55 those %'s adds up to 200% for that reason. It's not 0,5% it is the roughly 1% that the sheet states to get the roll you want as one of the two

[@-Kailinn-]

It's everything i'd guess. I feel like greater affixes are often life per second and max life most often too. It makes bricking with tempering a perfect amulet so painful. IF you even ever get one

[@youngwang5546]

Life per second is everywhere!!

[@assist_o.k.]

One thing that kept me playing this season is getting sparks thru a new character. Cuz if I'm grinding for certain gear, I end up just playing a new character to take advantage of the Wolf club at least. Surprised that wasn't nerfed cuz god forbid we make the most of our time

[@TheRealMrGordons]

I think for enchanting you should be able to "Tag" 3 stats you'd like to weight heavier and then it costs an additional 10 gem fragments of each type (70 fragments in total per roll) but you will see the selected stats more often. I also think for tempering we should get 5 re-rolls per category (10 in total) and the chance to pay 1 Mill if we want to keep the previous temper. I still think bricking should be possible but the RNG is insane and seems weighted against us more than necessary

[@mackdog3270]

Yeah, this season I found a 3 ga amulet with lucky hit, cdr, and resource cost reduction. It's easily the best item I've received since season 1, besides starless skies, which I also got this season. It seems to be nearly impossible to receive cdr on gear, let alone rerolling. I estimate one piece of gear out of about 500 will have it, and it's even odds that the item will be useless for my build. I'm up to 35% cdr and feel pretty fortunate to have it. It kind of makes me laugh, there was another KZbinr complaining about that immortal sorc build being dumb, but it's so hard to achieve that it may as well be inaccessible. In protest, I'm working on a sorceress with no defensive skills whatsoever 😁

[@brenosulzbacher]

I would not be surprised if they find out that tampering has some coding. I leveled a rogue with pen shot and now i've respec to andariels. I should have taken note how many times I failed to get the "punture cast twice" and the shadow imbuement extra uses one. I'm talking about bricking 3-4 items before getting the right tamper. And then you have to hope you roll a high value, or in case of imbuement you need to pray you get +2. And some of those tamper scrolls have only 3 options. I had like 6 rings and got just one with +2 shadow and one with +1. The rest completely bricked. The one with +2 got a bad damage roll (I think it was damage vs distant instead of generic damage or crowd controled).

[@connect32gm]

There is also another hidden mechanic it seems. There is a separate chance to reroll the original affix. When I moved an item (gloves i think) from my barb to my rogue, I rerolled the strength stat to get something else for my rogue build, and strength was one of the 2 options after the first enchant. That should never be an option for a rogue, correct?

[@spreadsheets2911]

Does this apply to reroll at enchanter only or also the internal roll before an item drops?

[@soulstar4268]

Like to see the same breakdown with tempering. I feel like some are weighted even though it shows a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance to obtain, yet it takes 20 times and several bricked items to obtain the temper, even if its on the low side.

[@angltk]

I'm curious about how the data was collected. Was it all on the same amulet, or was it a bunch of different amulets? Was he rerolling a single stat and hit "no change" 1,000 times? Asking since I recall some information from earlier seasons that rerolling was weighted towards the stat you were rerolling (and you obviously aren't going to roll the other two stats on the amulet). At a glance, this data set looks like it was rerolling the Max Health stat 1,000 times (hitting no change each time) on an amulet that already had total armor and all res on it. I would totally believe Max Health shows up much more often any anything else, but I wonder if 44% is overstating its chance when rerolling other stats. I also wonder if you reroll one of the passives if you have a higher chance of hitting (1) the same passive again and (2) other passives. Basically, weighted towards the same bucket of stuff.

[@tsug1375]

I still want a loadout wardrobe like D3 so i can make multiple builds on one class. Missing your tempering on top of how hard it is to get your +2 or +3 even on amulet (and gloves) are just adding frustration to something that should be fun and interchangable. You should be able to target the tempering mods and just risk the actual roll of the mod as well. Heaps of cool improvements could be made to make it proper casual :D

[@dr.vegapunk5853]

Hey Wudijo i got a question seem silly but i want to know b4 doing something dumb and it is... creating a uber unique with the alchemist better than finding the uber unique on the wild? i mean cuz creating it have a requirement of lvl 35 and my concern is the stats will it be base on my lvl (which is lvl100) or base on it's corresponding item lvl which is 35

[@zepsu]

With this kind of system they should really implement a third option that popups when you reroll the stats on items. And make it so that the stats can't be duplicates (not sure if it is already like that)

[@JesseMcKee-x7j]

Thank you. Now I know that it is at least not me having terrible luck Enchanting items

[@Rilo888]

I have several 3 passive amulets on rougue but there was this one that took me like 2.1b gold to keep rolling before malice decided to pop up for the fridget malice exploit amulet

[@andreh.lewisii7720]

What is this outro song?! 🔥🔥

[@XCILION27]

I stopped rerolling for crit chance and attack speed. I just go broke everytime.

[@StuRedman]

Good to know. Well I have already decided to skip s5 and probably the expansion along with it unless they make some real changes.

[@welcome_to_the_own_zone]

What if you could farm an item that would be used to omit any of the possible affixes for that one item only. You can expect to get 1-2 of this item an hour farming, and you can apply to omit affixes you don't need. They only work for that one specific item and they would have to be applied to other items in the future. Just a suggestion, and hopefully that makes sense.

[@Fearfulocean]

Certain abilities only pop-up in certain slots, self frigid finesse. I think I've only ever saw it in the third position. And you gotta keep that in mind like. I know that there's a pattern or some stats that only show up in the second or third or first position. Some of them are universal, so as soon as somebody figures that out how to make like a chart for it, people won't know. If they have a bad amulet, or not

[@Jazzamonroe]

I got really lucky the other day. Rolled my amulet like 5 times trying to get heavy handed. Got two or three other skills before I got heavy handed.

[@psirex6]

Explains my pains to try and get a CDR/Devouring Blaze Amulet for my Sorc... But how can you Farm so many whispers per hour? I run into the problem, that after I do all the 3 and 5 Grim favour ones, I have to wait until a new area spawns - iirc it should be 1 Area every 2 hours.

[@SennaSpiaca]

I think tempering also has weights. I shit you not, someitmes I get 4 of the same tempers in a row when there's 4 options.

[@Seanidor]

Yeah someone did a video on the weighted rolls for tempering too. I think even masterworking has weighted rolls. It's so stupid and such a waste of our time.

[@cohetus]

Got armor 5 times in a row from 3 options. System is rigged or bugged.

[@SennaSpiaca]

@@Seanidor Yep, I think they should give equal weights but give us 3 options+1to keep current one in return for enchanting and for tempering - also equal weights but option to keep current temper.

[@PDGreeuw]

What if the occultist had different categories like the tempering interface. You would still have to pick one stat to re-roll and a specific category that cannot be changed between rolls. That would at least eliminate the useless defensive rolls when you know you want to go for offence, or vice-versa.

[@GermanWeaselZA]

I believe that there should be systems in place to get exactly what you want. May it be grinding torment bosses for a specific ingredient, you should be able to grind towards getting that BIS gear, affix or whatever you require. There's so much room for creativity in these spaces. For instance, grind a torment boss for an ingredient you can use to exclude the affixes you don't want to roll all the way to outright selecting the affix you want at the cost of more ingredients.The more you exclude, the more expensive it is in terms of resource costs (not gold or even gold, who knows). At the end of the day you did the work to grind. Keep the current system as it is and implement a way to grind exactly what you want.

[@honestinsincerity2270]

I wonder if we can extrapolate these percentages and apply it to amulet drops in general. So, if Frigid Finesse only shows up in the enchantment screen 0.8% of the time, we should only expect 0.8% base amulets to drop from an enemy with that as well. Seems obvious and I would assume so but it's good info to keep in mind.

[@thinkagain9315]

I don’t even try passives and points to skill through occultist anymore. Either the item will drop with the passive/skill, and I will reroll something “easier”, or I won’t care for the item that won’t come with that specific stat. I usually go for Obol shopping specifically searching for those rolls - I never spend gold on occultist for that.

[@djproject1820]

My luck with Obols is as bad as tempering and enchanting. I go to the Obol vendor, get gear, exchange for gold or mats.

[@swapnajoynath1478]

Is this the same in season 5??

[@iPickBadUsrnames]

You didn’t even mention that to get to this point you need to 1) find the piece that has the potential to be made into what you want and 2) not brick the item with your 7 tempers. You’ve got to clear both of those hurdles before you can even enter the roundabout of rerolling and it’s just a double stack of discouragement to finally clear those hurdles only to run out of AB or be farming gold for 2 hours for a couple or rerolls. Feels like the “journey” with my item is more of a jaunt on a hamster wheel.

[@truckntrav6941]

Thanks for the video. This finalizes my decision to stop playing D4. I'm sick of the inflated unfair pricing to utilize the systems. I'm sick of the unfair weighting of affixes on when re-rolling and tempering and pricing associated with these systems. I'd be willing to bet master working has a similar hidden mechanic not fair to the player as well. I don't like the fact that resetting master working resets the entire master work entirely at every level and believe resetting should only take you back to the previous breakpoint. For example: reset at 4 to 0, 8 to 4, and 12 to 8. I'm done playing a game that is not fair to ALL players and has to implement hidden mechanics just to keep the blasters blasting while shitting on the majority of the player base. I wish everyone the best of luck with the D4 adventures hut I will not continue to support this game in any facet unless they make changes to make these systems fair. NOT favoring the player, but fair and respectful of my time. All the best luck to everyone.

[@djproject1820]

I am getting closer. I've grinded for hundreds of hours and got crap gear. For a regular working joe, this system is s_it. If they want casuals, why not let them beat the game? If I can solo uber Lilith, I'll buy the expansions. But the whole system is whack. Good for you for leaving Sanctuary.

[@eleven0624]

Some data that's missing, what were the original rolls and what was the item name? The original roll thing should be obvious because it'll change how the enchanting works. As for why the specific item name might matter, I suspect that the specific item may have an impact on the affix weighting. I say this only because I noticed a 0 results for total armor and all resist, so either they were the original affixes or that item type has a lower chance to give them. For instance I can't get away from all resist on my amulet and armor was pretty frequent as well during enchanting. So the discrepancy of 0 times on this data compared to them being annoying stats on my amulet that I spent 1B rerolling could be related to either of those things I mention.

[@Avarilyn]

Hey, good take. The item had Damage % and Resource cost reduction (Rare item). Another player did 1000 rolls after me and got close to identical results with a completely separate legendary item. If you look at the bottom of the list it says (was on item) and % (unknown) for resource cost reduction. The other guy managed to get Resistance to all 3% of the time, so might be something that isn't disclosed as to why I never saw the item in my rolling.

[@niemcewiczt]

and that is reason that if i am searching for +skill i am not even bother to reroll... I have it on dropped item or the item is salvaged... And thats sad because it can be very hard if you are unlucky... For example i found only 2 amulets with +2 to hellbend commander which is crucial for minion builds... Tempering it was a VERY scary experience fortunately it ended up only half-bricked....

[@Canna_Cam]

I had found a Frigid and Deadly Venom on an Amulet and rolled +2 to exploit on the 5th reroll.. guess I got very lucky

[@bostonbeau5726]

hey i know this is all about the PTR but has anyone in the comments noticed the stygeon stone drop rate seems bad since patch 1.4.3?

[@bjacobs4347]

they should post the odds of getting an affix in the occultist

[@wax99]

I'm a casual and just spent all my gold trying to temper the one attribute and still didn't get it. I wish it would be better to be able to target the attribute you want by using extra gold where the more gold you use the better the chances for a better roll.

[@Fred-ug2vz]

Yeah i spent 300 mil trying to get cooldown reduction. They need to even out the weighted odds

[@fabcol1888]

I didnt mind the odds and the rolling but runnning out of angelbreath and try to farm for more is just dumb.

[@Banelock]

I feel like Blizz should up the weighting on some of these affixes. It's almost impossible to get some of those stats through normal gameplay right now. The best way to get these items is browsing those trading websites which is way less fun than actually playing the game. Its fine if those BiS 2 / 3 greater affix items are really hard to get but just getting the correct stats for your build shouldn't be nigh impossible for a casual player.

[@mfpeden]

Hit +2 frigid finesse from the occultist on a similar (non ga) neck, got super lucky

[@calebbeasley77]

Agreed, i never ran numbers, but i was close; would've guessed a 2% chance. This system makes it so if it doesn't drop with a GA passive, it's borderline junk. Even crystals are honesty a bit problematic at 15 per roll. Should probably increase odds, add a 3rd roll, or halve the total mat/gold cost. Tempering is not great either but it is what it is. Players being more worried about bricking than excited about getting a 4 billion gold drop is not indicative of continued fun. This hurts trade specifically pretty bad as half the community isn't buying because they don't want to brick good items. How do you feel about the current state of royal gem costs or why t4 helltide amulet chests only drop 1 amulet and 1 steel?

[@geekydee]

So, one shouldn't try to draw to an inside straight? All kidding aside, great video, really informative! ps Now do tempering /smirk