What I Dislike About Metal

[@GOATLABDISCORDIA]

Punkrockmba is my least favorite female fronted non-metal anti-elitist

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

PunkrockMBA is my least favourite groomer

[@nodnarb0185]

Punk Rock MAP

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

@aquadino64 What's funny is that while PunkRockMBA likes to act morally superior and "progressive," his wife is a full on right wing Ron DeSantis apologist. I think its kinda weird to be bitching about black metal and other "problematic genres" while shilling for Ron Desantis with your wife, can't really claim any moral high ground on that front.

[@KONYLOVESKIDS]

Heil Varg

[@maleexile9053]

​@@ThatOneGuy7550cringe right wing and left wing

[@dante_dagger]

I've literally just started this video, and I have to say, my favorite thing about your videos is that I feel like I'm watching the POV of me asking one of my best friends about their personal feelings about our favorite niches of music.

[@i_want_my_shuggah]

You captured it perfectly.

[@fredarsenault8987]

My cut off is when everyone got a computer based studio and anyone was a half baked idea could record, and don t get me started on streaming... Music used to be a rare commodity you appreciated.

[@boggelzz]

The hyper defensive anti-elitists are super annoying. I've seen so many interactions on metal subreddits that go exactly like this: Person 1: "What are some underrated extreme metal bands?" Person 2: "Ooh, definitely (insert popular band)!" Person 3: "Uh, that band is super well known. And they're not even extreme metal." Person 2: "Oh well sorrrrry I don't listen to avant garde blackened turbo crustdoom vegan melodic slamming nu jazzcore metal!" They just can't let go of that joke from like 8 years ago

[@finestjellybeansrawlol9486]

Similar one - when someone will mention that a band isn't metal and people will get mad as fuck about it like it's some sort of slander on them. Saying a metalcore band is hardcore with some metal influence more than a metal band isn't a put down or an insult.

[@Maoisteducation]

​@@finestjellybeansrawlol9486I see that shit do common.E.g One person says that Slipknot aren't metal (witch is true) and then they get attacked by ten people calling them elitist gatekeepers who can't let people enjoy what they want.

[@putridabomination]

@@finestjellybeansrawlol9486 right, that argument right there is what got me a long string of replies on a Loudwire video lmao. Aside from the metal news media being absolute garbage, their primary viewers and how they think is one of the other main reasons I just stopped giving those channels and types of people the slightest bit of attention.

[@Sergio-nb4hj]

​@@MaoisteducationI can understand saying that Slipknot are not a "metal band" (they do lots of genres), but how exactly is an album like All Hope Is Gone anything but alt-metal?... there is even a strong groove metal influence (and believe it or not death metal in many of the riffs) Not getting mad at you or anything because I don't think calling something "not metal" is even an insult... (many of my favorite albums aren't metal, they're some variety of hardcore or punk) How exactly do people rationalize not calling them metal? Do you just discard the alt-metal genre entirely?... if alt-metal isn't metal than what is it?... because "alternative" definitely isn't a real genre and it ain't no hardcore or alt rock

[@Maoisteducation]

@@Sergio-nb4hj I can't really comment on alt-metal itself since I don't have really come in contact with it.I don't see Slipknot as metal,because of the lack of traditional metal riffs,too much influence from funk,hip-hop and alt rock, the metal sound being the least present one and no big subcultural link

[@JustinJohnson-vc1gr]

Babe wake up Wyatt uploaded

[@fuzzedoutwjon8608]

Wyatt’s a bro

[@Noetic-Necrognosis]

Never gets old bro

[@qombie]

Wyatt is the reason I get up from the bed

[@signumsigma4485]

You have a nice male non-HipHop channel

[@someobserver844]

I find anti-elitism a lot more insufferable than elitism, just because, at least in the "communities" I frequent, it's a lot more prevalent.

[@dalime605]

I agree. I hate people who cry about "gatekeeping" in metal. If some douche calling you a "poser" offends you that much, you probably are one

[@adaef69]

even when years ago i got super mad at elitist when they told me slipknot/megadeth are bad, i still found their music taste to be levels above the "opeth's production is what every band should strive towards" crowd. now i happen to agree with the "elitist" general position despite the hate i got (even though i came to the conclusion on a comepletely different moral framework and i think most gatekeepers have the worst reasons to gatekeep and are unironically stupid). im genuinely curious what communities you hang around in

[@wewuzwolves4428]

Agreed

[@TheHammerofDissidence]

100%.

[@SeregethRysgil]

This!! Someone in my local scene posted tons of statuses about me being an “elitist” because I wasn’t crazy about Ghost (she was a Ghost superfan). My think exact comment was “I don’t understand how this is considered metal” because she was playing their lighter stuff - later on someone played me their heavier stuff and I was like “oh ok”. Like no hate at all, just some mild confusion. But no gotta post 20 Facebook statuses about “why won’t elitists let us enjoy things” and “how dare elitists gatekeep”

[@benjaminthomasholton963]

That Aphex cover is warping my mind...

[@Hormizd]

I avoid most metal conversations, because of how boring and repetitive they are. People never get enough of discussing "who should be in the Big 4 instead of Anthrax," oh, please stop. Or another example is all these Metallica vs. Megadeth debates. So, generally these conversations are what I dislike about metal.

[@iceandblaze92]

In mainstream metal forum/groups for sure. Really tiresome moot ass conversations that don’t really matter speaking as someone who experienced the big 4 when it came to nyc in 2010.

[@patrickbertlein4626]

Nearing 41 and I honestly can't believe the whole Mustaine/Metallica thing is something I still come across, never would have thought as a kid this is something I would still see people discussing, nearly 30 years later having had the same discussions.

[@Darkless4X]

Same way with these Masked/Costume bands, especially the "Slipknot vs Mushroomhead" debate & people are always infighting 24/7 nonstop & it's gotten to the point where it's a waste of time. You're not going to change people's minds, people are going to continue acting like idiots on the net, & it's just not even worth it.

[@fclefjefff4041]

I'm 53, and "metalheads" my age tend to be obnoxious overgrown teenagers. 😄 There's something about identifying as a "metalhead" and embracing the whole goofy shtick beyond a certain age that's really juvenile. Grown adults screaming "SSLLLAAAAYYYEEERRRR!!!!!" at the top of their lungs is fucking embarrassing and not something I want to be associated with. So I consider myself a music fan who happens to enjoy metal sometimes.

[@michaelkelley88]

bro that punkrockmba diss was BRUTAL. also every point you made was super solid. this is why you're one of the metal youtube GOATS brother. wont lie ive been called an elitist, i just hate trend hoppers and bands that seems corporate as fuck:/ idk maybe im a douche haha. never stop saying the truth man!

[@gageclark2390]

I’m the same way honestly I just think people that are new to metal should be shown more Elite bands let’s be honest the more you dig into Metal you find better shit….

[@ashleybrown4754]

I never really agreed with his viewpoints but after hearing how young his wife is that channel holds no interest for me

[@garfield5667]

i started laughing so hard

[@closetriff]

Can u please explain I’ve been a casual viewer for a couple years and this is alarming

[@Leave_The_Hall_69]

McKenty would never stoop to making a furry joke at Wyatt’s expense tho

[@Zamiakulkas]

There are 3 things that I don't like about metal: 1. "Next big thing...", "What will be the future of the genre?" 2. Don't seperating art from artist. 3. Expecting that extreme metal community will be open for everyone.

[@deadman1823]

Hello mr wyattxhim, when is the top 10 FEMALE nsbm iceberg video coming out? Thanks you so much for the content

[@adammurkin7496]

Anti-elitsit is way more annoying. At least the elitist knows about music and has explored the genre appropriately, the anti-elitists are usually just moaning about things they know nothing about.

[@patrickbertlein4626]

Facts, people just don't get what elitism is. There's two kinds, the dumbasses that think if its not metal it sucks (this is rare and as I said elsewhere, mostly a modern thing) or that if you enjoy say Deftones you must be a poser, and the latter which I identify as where I recognize that no, your tastes are not as informed as mine or Wyatts here, but it doesn't have to be personal I'm not a better person for it and you like what you like but you simply don't have enough of an education on this subject to inform yourself what is good and not good regarding metal.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

True. I tend to dislike the anti - gatekeeper a lot more nowadays due to them being more prevalent. Most annoying.

[@Darkless4X]

I just enjoy what I like & ignore what other's think.

[@alex777alt]

no, that does not make sense. often its the elitist that doesnt know about the genre, especially if they call people "posers" for things that dont actually make someone a poser in the genre.

[@westernwarden8758]

One thing a lot of people miss about ticket prices is that a lot of it is not the bands fault. With -scalpers- "entertainment company" according to google, like ticketmaster buying up tickets entire venues or even artists, it is becoming more and more difficult for someone to do a large tour without working with said organizations. On the flip side I still think some artists could be better at going against these companies. If your so large you would have to go through ticketmaster, consider that you are very lucky, and going against these scalpers is good for artists and fans.

[@cocogus]

Top 10 things I hate about Metal Thanks for watching guys, remember to smash that like button if you agreed with anything on the list

[@necrolord9908]

Don't forget to click the bell button for notifications!!

[@rand0mguyontheinternet]

And don't forget to subscribe

[@withinthrall1445]

My issues with elitism and anti elitism is that both are issues that can be solved by not caring and listening to other people. It’s mostly something that happens online, and it’s the easiest thing to avoid. Plus if anyone is going to talk shit about you music taste to your face, you can just do the same thing back. It feels like someone tailgating a person driving in the fast lane, yeah it can be annoying that person is going slow, but just go around, you’re just causing the issues for yourself in the end.

[@thelurkingfear5979]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. Whenever I talk shit about a friend's music taste, it's usually all in good fun. We always poke fun at each other and ourselves. A lot of these problems exist only on the internet.

[@eclipses3131]

Yeah true. Sometimes it’s just better to move on but it’s just annoying to always see that. You’d think they would just stop acting cool and act like they’re “true fans”

[@MrAaron194]

There is no such thing as a metal elitist. It’s completely made up by insecure people who care way to much about the opinions of others, and don’t stand up for themselves. They give these people the power.

[@Deadpool-px2nm]

So you don't think elitism as a concept exists? I do get your point about not worrying too much about other people's opinions (and agree with it)... But nonetheless, elitism has always been a thing in history, even outside of metal

[@Primatenate88]

Remember when thrash metal tried to incorporate elements of punk rock like inclusion, non-conformity and realism? Keyboard warriors will remain toxic until the very end of the internet.

[@EpixNirvana_Fan101]

@@Primatenate88 what? You can't make an album about whatever you want without it being a "keyboard warrior" album? Metal in itself is lowkey non-comformity...what a weird take

[@Primatenate88]

@@EpixNirvana_Fan101 my point was that most metal elitists are keyboard warriors, and the internet has made negative effects across the board. I need to take a writing course cause sometimes I write words big dumb how.

[@juanmeowmix1530]

The "sell out" thing is quite juvenile. I mean people for one second forget that we all got bills and they need to get paid. If the band can reasonably get more money without ripping off fans then why not? I'm pretty sure the labels aren't offering a 401K.

[@eslwgpg1226]

Not to mention it’s pretty presumptuous to automatically think “they just want more money” anytime a band chooses to go in a different direction. Is it really that hard to believe musicians enjoy more than one type of music and would like to explore other types of music that they like in their own sound just for the joy of it?

[@juanmeowmix1530]

@@eslwgpg1226 truth

[@androgynousandy4538]

yeah, and artists across every genre “sellout” too. as listeners we may not love it every time, but yeah people need money.

[@DJMS_]

The one thing I hate about metal (music in general but mostly metal) is that some people can't fathom the fact you can separate art from the artist. People get upset if they find out when you listen to a problematic/sketchy artist and assume you agree or condone the artist's beliefs and/or actions

[@fabiopatane9160]

Agree. Only, it is not even a music issue specifically, but rather relates to art making in general.

[@wyattxhim]

over the years ive become to realize the argument "separate art from the artist" is very divisive . to say that a person could is saying that no emotions effect your way of thinking and thats honestly impossible. yes there are bands that I like that are sketchy . I dont and shouldn't expect people to just get over it because the message doesnt offend me. nor is there anything wrong with being offended from ways of thinking . I view it that its up to the individuals and their views and experiences to make a decision if its worth it. I guess my only problem with the conversation is when people think they're morally superior over music taste but thats just my hot take.

[@something6167]

I see this sentiment varies quite a bit in different musical circles. An obvious example where art is very fundamentally tied to the artist is Hip Hop. As at least from its roots it was expected that you only wrote your own rhymes and that you could back your claims up. Aka "be real". So in a genre like Prog rock, the music is still of course a reflection of the emotions of the mucisian, but its less so a direct reflection of them as a person. I generally do separate the art and artist in different genres, but how personal the music is to the artist is a factor for people. Which is why lot's of Hip Hop fans have a hard time separating Kanye from his music. But I suppose there is a group of people that can't do that in every community as there are still people calling you out for listening to Burzum, while the music of Burzum in no way reflects any ideas they might have a problem with. It's strange, though, as those same people will be Lovecraft fans and won't have a second thought about it. At the end of the day it's up to the individual to make their own choice. It only becomes a problem once a person deems their choice the only morally accepted one rather than their subjective feeling towards the subject.

[@DJMS_]

@@wyattxhim hard agree

[@diddums6477]

One thing that pisses me off is that many people completely miss the mark when discussing separating art from artist because they want to think there is an objective "yes you can" or "no you can't" when it is entirely subjective. Whether or not one can separate art from artist is for each person to decide on their own based on their own comfort level, and no one should be shamed for deciding that they are or aren't comfortable with it.

[@metalheadrailfan]

With metal news sites, the articles that make my eyes roll the most are the ones that put "reveals" in the title. Like I'm fully expecting an article to be titled "Lars Ulrich REVEALS what he thinks of Rob Halford's favorite breakfast cereal"

[@morbidgirl6808]

"Female" word always had appealed to mainly young female metalheads because they wanna feel fit into this genre. Every girl will always have this phase. I admit i did have it but i grew out of it and realized how absurd is it. I understand young girls' insecurity with a lack of sense of belonging in the metal commmunity and longing for some sort of woman empowerment which is important to some degree but as soon as they get older, they mature up and no longer crave for gender-based inspirations. Of course, women can play metal but to push them to something that is beyond control, is kinda nonsensical. For example, kpop fandom is female-dominated. Just like that, metal community is male-dominanted. It's not even about "dominance." It's just natural that metal appeals to men more and kpop appeals to women more. In fact, you'll see more gender equality in metal community than kpop fandoms. I met more women-hating misogynistic fans in kpop fandoms than i did in metal community, which is ironic considering kpop appealing mostly women.

[@22tfortnitevevo]

i really don't think there's anything inherent to metal that appeals more to men than women, at least going to smaller metal-adjacent (grindcore, gorenoise, etc) shows there's definitely a 50/50 split between men and women. i think it's just that metal was emphasized as a thing for men early on, similar to video games

[@hypnovertigo7200]

​@@22tfortnitevevoI think by "appeal" it's more the attitudes in the genres that led the genre to be dominated by men. I think the video games point would be the best analogy here

[@ElephantDestroyer]

Shonalike made a very good video on why metal appeals more to men than to women, it's called "Gender, Power & Heavy Metal", albeit she doesn't have the deepest understanding of metal. But to put it in a nutshell, it's a combination of sociocultural factors and marketing. Metal was born in working class England and has been always held as a community for "outcasts" due to being part of alternative culture. Guess who are the outcasts that work physically demanding jobs? Exceptuating the 80's glam metal craze where everyone was involved (maybe nowadays too since the media is so infatuated in selling the image of metal as the cool obscure person that listens to nu metal and deathcore), and scenes like the Scandinavian where they are clearly not financially struggling despite not being rich, metal has been a culturally male-associated genre for the people underground. Compare that to Kpop, a surgically made genre controlled entirely by the industry, that sells cute sensible Asian boys that will satisfy all your needs.

[@wewuzwolves4428]

C'mon dude, if you can't crush posers, why live? 😢

[@MarcosGonzalez-cs7nl]

I just gonna say this to most of the Metal News Outlets : I dont care what Corey Taylor thinks about anything, pls stop. Thank you.

[@TheHammerofDissidence]

The concept behind "selling out" is real, albeit rare, but it's misapplied 90% of the time. Like you say, people conflate it with change or seizing the opportunity to make more money with music. Neither is a bad thing. What "selling out" really is, is when a band intentionally treats their music solely as a profit project and couldn't care less about artistic integrity. It happens but I think it's rare. And yes, Ghost is the perfect example, especially when you consider that Tobias always wanted the band to be an arena project. The new album is just straight radio rock garbage intentionally created to sell tickets to as many people as possible.

[@xNachtmahRx]

Aka 90s thrash bands. 90% sold out during the 90s to make their own black album or to become he next Pantera for that sweet money. That's why I started believing in gatekeeing and eitism

[@Koraxus]

@@xNachtmahRx To be fair thrash is one of the genres that less allow for innovation without really diluting the essence of what it really is. You can only include a few foreign elements before it ends up sounding either like death metal or straight pantera-like stuff.

[@yourmomshouselol]

I hate how people now overuse metal elitist, you'll get called an elitist it you say anything negative about modern metal even if it's completely subjective

[@NAT-turners-Revenge]

Tbh, I've been listening to metal since 94, going to shows since 2001, play instruments and I *RARELY* come across "elitist" .... I've been to so many after parties, shows, hang outs, meet N greets, etc... it's like a unicorn.

[@jeffreychandler8418]

I remember when Sleep Token put out their album, I was accused of being an elitist SO OFTEN for talking about how much I disliked the album, yet I listen to all forms of metal, and even consider many hard rock and avante garde fusion bands "metal" because to me, metal is just anything with a strong edge to it. Diablo swing orchestra? metal. Anareta? metal. stone sour? metal. Sawayama? some metal. but just because I thought sleep token was overrated, bloated, with poor composition, "ELITIST!!!"

[@zigotina]

i take it as a compliment

[@Darkless4X]

I get called an "elitist" or "I don't like Metal durrr" because I don't like certain bands like Slipknot, Tool, Ghost or literally any mainstream band out there that gets too much press 24/7. The Metal community is full of condescending weirdos I swear.

[@sirwoofsalot7505]

This and the word “gatekeeper.”

[@RainbowAceOfSpades]

Hot Take: Elitism is more useful than Anti-Elitism because at least elitism contributes to the development of music more and elitists tend to be more knowledgeable, confident in their opinions, and have more defined tastes that make music discussion and communities more interesting.

[@Jesus-loves-death-metal4580]

I agree I think we need them, sure they can be annoying at times like it’s alright to listen bangers like super hoes by funkdoobiest time and time again but like listening to bands like hatebreed and suicide silence does not mean we are metal head brothers. We listen to completely different sub genres and don’t have really much in common besides maybe your bands took influences from my genre

[@Jesus-loves-death-metal4580]

What about Metallica you know the band that still has like 13 million monthly Spotify listeners. Very under ground band that’s dead

[@paveantelic7876]

@yannis937 bruh

[@lil_villian5124]

​@yannis937low tier bait

[@patrickbertlein4626]

yawn@yannis937

[@eslwgpg1226]

One that kind of annoys me a bit are the metalheads (most often of the extreme metal persuasion) who seem to have a phobia of good production values. I’m talking almost anything that doesn’t sound 80’s or 90’s demo quality is pretty much accused of being “overproduced” or “sounding artificial”. The guitars and drums can bleed together as a fuzzy, indecipherable mess and the vocals a barely audible drone in the background and these people will claim “this is how Metal is supposed to sound, not like that overproduced crap where you can easily distinguish the instruments and the guitars actually sound rich and massive” or “sounding like it was recorded by amateurs in one of the band members’ basements is how you know it’s authentic”. Sorry but this whole idea that good production makes the music sound “less authentic” makes absolutely zero sense to me

[@BigChimpEnergy]

There are far too many black metal elitists like this lol. I get that the original artists basically had that as their main gimmick, mostly because they were poor (Burzum, Mayhem, etc) however Gorgoroth's comeback album Quantos Possunt ad Satanitatem Trahunt is proof that you don't need dingy, lofi production to have a killer black metal album... or better yet Mgła's entire discography for that matter.

[@simplebutnotsolongname6642]

@@BigChimpEnergySame for Mayhem’s recent album, Daemon. Honestly, just as good if not better than De mysteriis dom sathanas.

[@adaef69]

genuinely curious what album with good production sounds like it gets value from the production. i have not searched for any xd that why im asking. the reason being is that i find for example polyphia's sound to give them elevator music sensibility, make the music more accessible and worse in my eyes (for me nothing will be lost and a lot would be gained if it had more agressive sounding instruments). another similar example is opeth: if you enjoy at least popular demos and the extreme metal classics i dont see how the athmosphere opeth is trying to create is captivating. for me the emotions cannot get trough because i have experienced similar feeling by listening to something "raw and more extreme". i feel like i have to revert to the taste i had when i was younger to enjoy any of them. im really interested if you can recommend albums where the good production adds and does not take away

[@thelurkingfear5979]

I’ll be honest, I do have that preference for raw stuff. I’m not really into Black Metal though, I’m more of a Death Metal demo guy. But for me it’s really just a preference. I listen to tons of traditional 80’s Metal too, and I wouldn’t exactly describe that stuff as super raw.

[@juanjefff22]

Finally a metalhead that acknowledge the elitism in jazz. I have seen so many smooth brain metal dudes thinking jazz is this thing where you just play whatever and it's cool and is like this odd meter paradise and everything in metal or core that is a bit weird is jazzy... When in reality most jazz musicians and fans hate the forms of jazz that dare go that route. Fuck, just look up what jazz critics though of people like Anthony Braxton or Cecil Taylor...

[@Koraxus]

there is also plenty of "progressive" snobness though I'm not sure if I'd call that elitism

[@juanjefff22]

@@Koraxus you mean the become the knight type guys? You know, they claim to be into prog but they are just dream theater fanboys. You never see those guys talking about Univers Zero, Magma, Ruins, Present, Henry Cow... Not even King Crimson or the more complex Zappa albums for that matter, or in a more prog metal sense: Voivod, Watchtower, Blotted Science, Cynic, Spiral Architect, Behold the arctopus... You know... They might just be POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSERS *screams in j dawg*

[@hypnovertigo7200]

Biggest thing i hate about metal is that 90% of its fans will dismiss anything that doesnt sound like the only 3 bands they listen to. Very rarely will i personally find someone more artistically and openly minded.

[@onkledrone4099]

Communities are always the worst thing about every subjects

[@Solitaire__]

I'm a woman, but I enjoy learning about (and listening to) extreme metal and I've learned a lot about different genres and bands thanks to your content. You absolutely nailed it with your "female" rant. It's absolutely obnoxious and it always comes off as condescending and a bit degrading when metal fans use it to describe a woman, reminds me of the Ferengi from DS9.

[@alexddragame]

I agree with what you saying overall. But also saying "I like one album more than the other" ain't elitism, it's just I like one album more than the other, that's how I see it at least

[@wyattxhim]

Technically I think it is It’s to a much smaller degree but simply holding something with higher value than another is saying the thing you prefer is elite to what it’s compared to .

[@alexddragame]

@@wyattxhim I guess so. I still don't see it as elitism really but I can see your point

[@simplebutnotsolongname6642]

I would assume Elitism is just an implication of having an extreme bias towards something, rather Than being partial to something over the other, like you guys are discussing.

[@wyattxhim]

@@simplebutnotsolongname6642 Elitism is putting something above else which could be anything. While my explanation is minuscule I still hold as such a form . Saying Album A is better than Album B still follows the definition of it . While what you’re saying is very true than the exact opposite of it (anti elitism) would mean there’s no bias in any sense , no one is holding stuff above one another.

[@signumsigma4485]

Elitism is about putting yourself above others within the name of music. Opinion is about the music itself. You can be very picky in music and dont be an elitists if you really dont like the music. Having an opinion is not elitism. If we tune that idea to the max we would conclude that being an individuum with prefenreces itself is eltism.

[@SpawnIsSleepy]

to make a not about the whole "non-metal" thing, alot of rap listeners do the same shit. i know from experience lol from like 2015-2019 i listened to almost exclusively rap and think that people would call me gay or whatever if i listened to rock or metal etc. Now im a metalcore fan (the gayest metal genre lmfao)

[@BananaGeekLord]

First I just want to bring up the woman thing because YEEES. Like I get it's nice having the representation. I'm gay, and I like it when a band has a queer member because I feel a bit more represented... but can we talk about Ghaals vocals? Something other than his sexuality? Rob Halford and his contribution to the scene outside of him being gay and how he brought in leather from the gay community to metal? It's cool, but I also want to talk about the music. But if there's one thing to being up that I dislike, I'm actually tired of the generic metal logos where it's unreadable and just a bunch of lines. It was cool the first time I saw it. It felt raw. It really brought that bad ass edgy energy that metal can have. It was cool... but when everyone does it then it loses that edge. It's no longer bad ass. It's just the thing everyone does. And sometimes when I see a person with a shirt I might want to look the band up. But now I can't because while some are legible enough, some are completely illegible. So now their merchandise doesn't even tell me who they are. There are so many bands who took the general idea and tweaked it enough to feel fresh, but still a lot just look standard. I would love for more bands to move away from it.

[@finestjellybeansrawlol9486]

I've noticed a LOT of hardcore/metalcore bands with women on vocals are putting "female fronted isn't a genre" or some variation in their social media bios because it's hit a point where the scene has stopped being openly shitty to women but people are still weird as fuck about them. I wouldn't be surprised if metal has a similar thing happen in time where bands with women in start openly pushing back on it.

[@SuicidalGrind]

I experienced the Pantera part first hand. Some guy I used to be friends with was saying all this about how Phil Anselmo is just doing it for the money and it's a complete cash grab, and the best part is the guy doesn't even like Pantera he literally dislikes the band so it's just ironic to me that he would even think to care about such a silly thing.

[@Rogreedo]

The only thing I highly disagree is that we're the only ones using "non-metal". I've seen so many people, especially hip hop and electronic music fans refer to other music as "non-hip hop", "non-rap", "non-dupstep" or even "non-EDM". Although that's my personal experience on that regard.

[@jessenunez7205]

I’m not elitist I’m just against people wearing band shirts when they aren’t fans of the band at all. I remember people were wearing Metallica and Slayer shirts when they weren’t fans for a while. It just seems a bit insulting imo

[@aaronmertz9824]

I feel like metal fans can sometimes get hung up on what subgenre certain albums should be classified as instead of appreciating the music itself. A big example that comes to mind is Dissection. I totally understand the need for genre labels but when an album can be classified different ways it shouldn't really matter.

[@robertvalknut3290]

Besides of the elitists and their direct counterparts, there are two more kind of people that come across annoying as hell. The first being the ones, who constantly keep calling the metal scene one huge family, where everyone's supportive of each bember of the community, and the other ones being the guys who can't shut up about how dangerous the 90s black metal scene was and that it should become as dangerous again. Like as if everyone back in the days was a proud extremist, ready to take down all those posers at every moment.

[@SeregethRysgil]

The last dude I knew who was a “METAL FAMILY” guy harassed a bunch of women and is shunned from the local scene now 💀

[@patrickbertlein4626]

This! That is mostly the Thrash party Wackenmetal scene or whatever. Most metal heads do not give a fuck about each other, its not a brotherhood and that bullshit needs to die. Personally I can't stand at least half the people who listen to metal. They are either whiny hipsters or try hard elitists.

[@coffeman3575]

One of the funniest quotes i ever heard was ,,elitism wouldnt bother you if you listened to good music"

[@Gerd0]

The weird and kinda pathetic thing I've observed in metal elitism is something I can only describe as silent gatekeeping. They have a discussion with someone in the wild about metal, and the other guy clearly has a much more broad take on what "real" metal is (basically is into metalcore or some hard rock bands or whatever). Instead of having a normal discussion like a well adjusted human being and trying to share their taste in music in response, they go online and bitch into an echo chamber about how anyone into that music is just a poser. It's just super petty. If you're complaining about "fake" metal being too popular compared to "real" metal, nothing's gonna change if you keep things this insular for no reason other than to be really pleased with yourselves for having better taste in music.

[@craigroaring]

The problem in regards to this anti-elitism bandwagon is that the accusations are rarely in defence of someone being bullied, and is usually just an attempt to shame those with differing opinions into silence. Shouldn't they just be anti-bully instead? And do these anti-elitists not have criticisms of their own? Everyone has criticisms, it's just a matter of how much of an asshole you're willing to be to express it. Consider also that there are the bands, albums, performances where it's open season for all to criticize brutally without fear of being labelled anti-elitist. I've heard so-called anti-elitists rip on Lulu, St Anger, Nickelback, and that guy who did the unplugged Nirvana cover. There's no consistency, and people follow like sheep regarding what's acceptable to criticise. Be anti-bully, not anti-opinion. The distinction needs to be made.

[@fuego3517]

What's all this talk about "communities"? Why do you people always need to be in a "community"? Am I the only person left not on Discord lol

[@brennuvargr4638]

That Finn Mckenty comment... OMF'G'.

[@Blady99]

Being anti-elitist is just being a humility elitist

[@mudmoth]

It is so healing for me as a girl who’s into metal, to hear a guy talking about this „female“ thing. That word makes me feel like I‘m not seen for the person that I am but for my gender. It just pisses me of that I am scared to go to the shows of bands that I love because just the thought of being surrounded by mainly men gives me anxiety. (Sry if I said or spelled anything wrong. English is not my mother language)

[@Juju..]

I hate the elitism/anti-elitism discourse too, but I lean more for the quality control from elitism. Older metalheads acting like fountains of wisdom is pretty awful though. I also hate the stereotypes people hold about metal fans. Not all metal fans have (or need to have) long hair or are scary, tough guys.

[@dougneon9550]

I have no problem with the visual of metalheads, it's flattering and fitting to the sound

[@Juju..]

I meant as a fan not a musician@@dougneon9550

[@CatherineLee3000]

When you talk about the word, "female," I agree that it's a weird word. The word "woman" sounds so much better than the word "female."

[@lewisb85]

One that always got me was how metal fans threaten violence against those who don't like metal, the older I get the more I appreciate what Sam Bean of the berzerker/werewolves/the antichrist imperium etc said about the scene in either an interview or his zero tolerance column about liking the music but hating the scene because it's destructive I tend to agree with him.

[@donutlordband24]

doing music for money isn't the problem. it's when the money becomes priority over the music where problems happen

[@ElephantDestroyer]

The so called metal elitists (some of them, self-proclaimed) and anti-elitists (to a point we could ourselves that, but when you go and actually see these people, they're newbies or just plain posers) are cut from the same cloth. Identifying with the music and culture is ok, it's one of the principles of crowd psychology, but there's a difference when they make it part of their "self". At the smallest questioning of their taste, as it constitutes themselves, they will immediately respond with aggression. From what I've observed online, elitists are people who don't know shit and still make statements as if they did, often writing the most neoposerish garbage ("hot takes" challenging very strong standards, like calling Altars of Madness mediocre). And anti-elitists are literal children, most of them not having even graduated high school, that find themselves still in the "metal = cool" mental stadium (of whatever they consider metal; pretty much all the time it's the same media-fed understanding), and they start crying the second someone tells them Slipknot blows, that they're Cuties fans for liking Babymetal, or that neither of the before-mentioned are metal. You said it yourself, there's always a form of elitism in any community, but how I've seen is not only by social standards. It is inevitable that an elite is going to form, because people gather so much knowledge and experience that they have unquestionably higher faculties; however this is not noticed by antiquity in the scene, how much or which music you listen to (in our case), it's by having criteria. You are not an elitist by telling me you listen to Havohej, or that you've been here since 1990 (opposed to what, for example, Finn McKenty thinks), it's by your ability to judge the art on all its dimensions, be it its own aesthetic qualities, compostion, cultural influences, etc. An actual elite doesn't ask you to name five brutal death metal bands from Indonesia, they ask you how do you think avant-garde black metal got influenced by Gothenburg death metal, or whether the post-dictatorship period played a role in Brazilian bands' inspirations or not.

[@patrickbertlein4626]

Domination is the best MA album followed by Formulas don't care what anyone says. 99% of Babymetal fans would be a bore to have a conversation with regarding music simple as that. Not sure how Ved Buende Ende was influenced from Gothenburg.

[@ElephantDestroyer]

@@patrickbertlein4626 Opeth

[@IsaacJosephChewYehStpatricksch]

was that a hit at the metalmeltdown? XD

[@billvrabel1502]

I can see your point about Females but I really do think it's just describing the project, and not demeaning women. Even in death metal vocals females tend to sound different than men, or if it's Gothic or Atmospheric/doom there might be a tendency to have soprano and or just female singing which sounds very different from male vocals. I haven't heard of any women complaining so I think you're overthinking this.

[@Aluenvey]

As some interesting trivia, in Visual Kei ( although that's more like a hybrid of Punk and Metal, and has its own...cultural weirdness ) often it's the guys that frequently dress up as women, often look convincingly female, and the women there dress up like men. I'm actually unsure how much is exactly 1 to 1 with Visual Kei and Metal. I guess sometimes it's compared to Glam Rock. Often even not quite metal, but even somewhere between Hard Rock and Metal. My particular favorite is Kamijo, but that's do to being a fan of Historical Fiction settings, like late 18th and 19th century Europe. But also I recently checked out Exist Trace. By yea the elitism I've heard about is a lot of my hesitation for even joining Mastodon ( no pun intended ) based metal instances. I'm technically a pianist. I have considered asking if pianists are welcome there. To offer a contrary position to softening up the sound. As a listener I feel like there's something to be said for starting softly, and then gradually making the music darker over time.

[@valeriegregoire5073]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the "female" speech 🙏

[@fatjawns3671]

6:15 rap fans 100% do this I was part of an Instagram music group during covid and they would all say something like “blonde is my favorite non rap album” or something and eventually it was satirized in the community because of how stupid it was

[@Hunter-jv1ld]

Same thing with the "female" metal problem. That's also a thing in hip hop and I hear rap fans saying they don't like "female rap" as if that's a genre. Mc Lyte, Backxwash, Gangsta Boo and Ice Spice sound completely different and belong to different hip hop subgenres, they shouldnt be put in a box because they are "females"

[@jackwade5359]

I very much agree with what you said about the usage of the word "female" in the metal community. Though I'd say that I've also seen many people use it in a non-derogatory way (I hope that makes sense) like just simply asking people to recommend them female fronted crust bands like Sacrilege, Nausea, etc. which I think is completely okay imo but yeah I totally get what you mean.

[@TheThomasJames]

I worked for a metal webzine & we just reviewed albums & shows. We didn't post any of that bullshit about drama/rumors in metal. We just kept it real. Sadly we put it to rest mid 2020. It was a blast!

[@slothDAMN]

Dood, how did you get the new Aphex Twin already?! I know it's only out tomorrow, but still... NICE!

[@emmalinebrown]

It was so good to hear someone talk about the usage of the word “female” in the metal community. I’m so happy to be seen as just another metal fan trying to enjoy the music. Thank you for voicing your opinion on this- more people like you are needed in this world. P.S. Highly enjoyed this video. Great job.

[@luxinterna3370]

I guess the female thing is an American thing. When we talk about a band having a female singer, it doesn't bother anyone. Most of the time it's about how cool it sounds. As a man, I think it's natural to be attracted to women and to talk about it in a group. What bothers me the most is the idea that we are all a happy community just because we listen to metal. Yes, okay, we listen to the same music and have something in common, but that doesn't make us friends. I reject the idea of ​​uniform communities because you have one thing in common anyway. I prefer to view every person as an individual.

[@zigotina]

i'm 50/50 on the sell out one, for instance these new Sepultura rerecordings, they are pure cash grabs if you ask me, nothing to do with 'broadening the horizons'

[@wiktoria63266]

As a girl music fan, thank you

[@SchnellVITALVINYLVLOG]

I hear ya a vocalist is a vocalist, but situation I always have people that think all I listen to his death metal so when I break out some Karma Moffet, Wolf Eyes or Some HxC for example I always just let people know you don't need to be closed-minded musically listen to whatever you want. But sometimes I just use that term to let people know this is not a metal record so don't go into it expecting blast beats.

[@MexiNorge]

metal fans are sometimes cringe fr

[@wyattxhim]

Guilty

[@laurisaarinen1126]

I basically agree about your take on the "female band member" thing but to be honest, i don't see a reason to get so upset. I don't believe most women have a huge problem with it. Like you said, this happens simply because it's 90% men and women stand out. Really has nothing to do with sexism, except the cases when it is that you can probably tell from the tone. Yes there is some of it among metalheads but to my experience, most behave very respectfully. Plus i do think similar thing does actually happen vica versa to guys in mostly-women filled spaces, it's just natural behavior.

[@himinthegulf9867]

Make metal offensive again. Enough with the complaining

[@stantorren4400]

*makes it more sexualised than rap and hip-pop*

[@himinthegulf9867]

@@stantorren4400 I don’t know anything about rap and hip hop so I have no idea what you are talking about.

[@stantorren4400]

@@himinthegulf9867 just look at rap for 3 minutes, you’ll see it’s extremely sexualised with tons of soft core porn

[@stantorren4400]

@@himinthegulf9867 and I do mean look. Listening to the music is not necessary

[@himinthegulf9867]

@@stantorren4400 what does that have to do with me telling this woke man child to stop complaining?

[@LongLiveRockAnRoll]

In terms of the "female" point, I will mention it if it's a major aspect of a band's sound. Imagine you're describing Nightwish for example, to someone who never heard of them. You're at least going to mention the operatic female vocals since it's a major part of their sound. If that's an incel thing to do then I don't know what to tell you.

[@wyattxhim]

Yes I get that expect when talking about bands like Nighwish and Epica as now the musicians have to work around their pitch . My problem with that way of thinking is we’re still making it seem that a person’s gender is a gimmick to form of a sub genre . Personally I think we’re looking at this on two different angles however I don’t think you’re wrong on what you’re saying . I’m bringing up how it comes off like labeling woman as objectives to a certain sound . As if “female” front is an instrument the say way the guitars are to riffs .

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

I find anti-gatekeepers to be even more insufferable. I used to think both gatekeeping and the former were the same, but I’ve come to the conclusion that anti - gatekeeping is the biggest reason as to why I’ve began to have a somewhat strong disliking towards not only metal, but music, in general. I rather deal with elitists. At least they know what’s up and don’t cry and moan like pansies all the time. Sure, most are pansies, but the anti - gatekeeping is filled to the brim with them.

[@EpixNirvana_Fan101]

really? I mainly see metal elitists online never shutting the fuck up about nu metal and anti eliests not fucking caring about that, I mean you know how annoying it is to see the 5 thousandth "I hate Taylor Swift!!!" On a Cannibal Corpse video? Idk where you find your music but I don't think I see that often idk bro also weird to bring in gay people in your opinion lol

[@smokey885]

What a cute man

[@Shrieking_In_the_Void]

you, my good man, have yourself a new subscriber. that bit about "female fronted" is 100% on point, along with everything else.

[@incorrigiblewizardry106]

I agree Wyatt, make metal sexist again

[@davesigismund6264]

The comment toward the end of the video made me think of the Chris Barnes drama from last year. He said he hates modern death metal and all these metal websites and youtubers act like he just killed someone. So what? He's one of the godfathers of death metal and is allowed to have whatever opinion he wants. (I'm not a big fan of CC and hate SFU btw)

[@shakenbake3249]

The metal elitist and anti metal elitist is the best example in metal of the meme “their the same picture” from The Office.

[@patrickbertlein4626]

Female fronted is only relevant if its clean female vocals. Than it makes sense cause you know what you're getting into. Other than that fully agree, and have read and come across a number of ladies who feel the same. One of my big annoyances is that two decades ago, if you were a chick into metal it was other females who were the ones who would give you shit. While yes theirs some men who didn't want girls in the scene cause fuck if I know why, ignoring the reality that it was women above all shitting on each other for liking extreme metal is just dumb. In personal discussions of my music tastes, I always say most of my favorite bands/artists are not metal, and I say this because people assume its the only thing I listen to. Its the majority, yes, but my favorites have been Tori, Tom Waits, Damien Rice, Radiohead, Nick Cave, Have a Nice LIfe, the Angelus, Nothing, and many more that simply aren't metal. Even favorites like later Tiamat, In the Woods, and Anathema are not metal, and again some of my favorites. So saying my favorite bands are not metal is largely true. Agreed with your elitist/non-elitist rant. Again, I listen to Tori Amos, just fucking saw her, I don't get to be an "elitist" in that sense. But do I, you, and other metal heads know way more about metal than the majority? Absolutely. Piss off if that upsets you. MetalSucks is a cancer on this scene.

[@maleexile9053]

Im sort of an elitist

[@eX1st4132]

cool

[@StationaryRocketFlipChampion]

You're sorry of gay too

[@dougneon9550]

Alright Wyatt so lemme spill the tea on what my favorite non-metal female lead music groups opinion on on Metal... 🗣️ And you better hold my opinions or there'll be consequences

[@BigChimpEnergy]

Least insane redditor lol

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

It’s also cringey when bands use having a woman as a member as a promotional gimmick. Just play no one cares either way.

[@HiGlowie]

Exactly. I couldn’t care less what the band looks like as long as they sound good

[@wheelsofmercury]

I understand where you were coming from with some of your points, but I think most of them are all rather trivial arguments to make at the end of the day. People are gonna do what they’re gonna do, and I try not to get too hung up on it. And about that guy that complained about Pantera reforming… I know and watch the KZbinr who has Marvel comics in the background of his videos. He has something like “Meltdown” as his KZbin handle… 👀

[@thestupidithurts4728]

I find Metal gatekeeps itself just by what it is. Went to a gig to see a few bands and once the tamer stuff was over, a band called Putrescent Seepage came on and cleared the room, it was too much for most people there. IDGAF about posers they buy merch which helps the band and gets the name out on smaller bands, which is never a bad thing. But douche bags are going to Douche, and you dont have to talk to them.

[@blackmoonangler]

People calling out "Gatekeeping" when its just someone saying they don't like a popular band or any band. Gatekeeping is only a problem if its someone saying certain groups like women or gays can't be metal. Saying you think Slipknot or Sleep Token sucks is just having an opinion on the art. I mean if a six year old told me Slipknot is their favorite band I wouldn't dunk on them but if I tell an adult "Iowa" does nothing for me I'm entitled to my take.

[@paveantelic7876]

thanks for bringing up "anti-metal elitists", i feel like they're so much bigger in numbers and more annoying if you ask me

[@sieni221]

Not gonna like its the metal feminists who use female or poc fronted etc rather than the average basement dveller listener.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Yo, Bach and (especially) Mozart were Metal as fvck lol.

[@DanteRising]

In your last video i recommended a band called Orbweaver. I happy to announce that the guitarist is female (after the fact) 😁 The thing i don't like about metal these days is.........metal, classic metal. Im 45 and spend the first half of my life with it, now im bored to tears with it. This is why i like your tastes, you like the avant garde, experimental stuff. I'm a bit more into post metal but i will give anything a shot except the Iron Maidens or Judas Preists (yawn). And yes, metal elitists, in the UK we call them Battle Jacket Wankers that all sit in a circle in the rock pub sneering at all the people who are wearing a shirt they consider not true metal. I don't hate them, i just ignore them. Metal news outlets, like Blabbermouth, Corey Taylor said.........Ted Nugent said........Dave Mustaine said...........

[@Jorgetime]

I get the female thing, but female vocals do sound different it can be used as a descriptor, same thing happens in Rap, "best female rapper".

[@wyattxhim]

As I’ve been saying throughout the comments similar to yours . We’re just making gender a genre at that point and if that isn’t the case then why isn’t there the “best male rapper”?

[@KnightJirka05]

I think that Pantera reunion video you are refering to is the one that Rob from The Metal Meltdown made. And the main impression that at least I got from it was: "The Abott brothers would never aprove this because Phil is an asshole (also maybe partially responsible for the death of Dimebag)." Not saying that this is the right opinion on the matter.

[@wyattxhim]

It probably was his video . Can’t say much about him as he seems like an alright guy but if that s the argument then that’s kinda silly . The Abbot brothers are both deceased. They don’t have a say on the matter anymore . There are fans that don’t care about the drama and just want to experience a Pantera show. Which of course would require money .

[@AnaPbarros]

Metal News Outlets is the most thing I hate about metal the MOST! It's always the same bands and the same artists featured there, you feel more dumber about metal than you were before navigating this kind of sites Unfortunately, it's always about the views...In my country there's a metal news site that writes an article EVERYTIME Fernanda from the band Crypta breathes or the 1000th Cavalera opinion about Sepultura despite he's not in the band for 20+ years... This kind of article brings hate views and war in the comments and they know it and they don't care because it helps their profit cause... Always dumbing the metal scene there is...

[@Drinkwithclass]

I like your perspective about music in general dude, that's why I watch your channel but this is reddit tier cringe, checking out from this one this time

[@wyattxhim]

no apologies on my behalf as I said I wanted to do an unfiltered bias take ill at least thank you for your honesty

[@andrex8888]

I hate how soft the metal community has become

[@Noetic-Necrognosis]

^

[@stantorren4400]

You mean you hate the fact metal heads don’t want to be associated with arseholes

[@Bomberman66Hell]

Almost every community has softened up with the current social winds

[@EpixNirvana_Fan101]

in what ways tho? I would say its the same as always

[@lambknot]

Before metal all I listened to was Buddy Holly. Now I check out unknown metal bands from all corners of the world, all thanks to Radio Fenriz.

[@lacavernadelnigromante7378]

Nice aphex twin album

[@something6167]

Wyatt be spitting facts fr

[@dimitrisjimmygtheodorou8478]

i listen to metal since i was 12 ...now im 42 and i can confirm that metal has the most annoying fucks evah.....the tunnel vision runs wild....

[@toperella]

"The only difference being that when I go out with my wife it doesn't look like I'm baby sitting her." 🗣🔥

[@vargvondeviant2009]

There's a famous phrase that says: "Elitism doesn't have to bother you if you listen to good music"

[@Easun36]

On the selling out thing: It's all about when you change your sound and how. When bands like Gorefest, Carcass and Entombed went Death n' Roll, that was ok with me, because Death n' Roll wasn't, obviously, the mainstream trend. When Machine Head went nu-metal when nu-metal was huge, that was a cash grab (attempted, because the record bombed). You can't compare making music with a job. Expressing yourself should be your motivation, not money. Money is a pleasant side-effect, if your band happens to become popular. When money becomes your motivation, music doesn't flow naturally and tends to suck.

[@colecarstarphen8743]

Do a noise music iceberg

[@StrandedStation]

Mom can we have moist critkal Mom: No we have moist critkal at home Moist critkal at home

[@wyattxhim]

Even if that’s a jab I’ll take it with pride when being compared to him or Weindogoon

[@TheHeavyMetalHistoryHour]

Wow, THANK YOU for that first bit about using the term "female"! It is weird and immediately gives sexist people an idea about the band instead of saying, "This band kicks ass, they have great gutturals and amazing guitar solos and harmonies." I think it's important to talk about women in metal because we are a disadvantaged group and it's less common, as well as being subject to prejudice, but the way it's currently being done can be detrimental. We should be talking about these bands as just what they are, metal bands, instead of "female metal bands". I don't like seeing the first thing about a band that has women in it the fact that it has women in it. We should be talking about the musicianship first and foremost, and then be sharing interesting or unusual facts about the band. It's rather insulting! I love all of your videos. I'm going to be starting a channel entitled The Heavy Metal History Hour soon myself. Your videos are well-researched, thoughtful, and insightful. Keep it up!