X-Wing 2.5 Rules Stream Overview and Recap - Scenarios, Obstacles, and Bumping! Plus More Mando!

AMG gave us a demo of one of the new scenarios and the 2.5 core rule set - let's talk about it!
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[@azlanaddleman2448]

Rip x-wing!!

[@AlanHaskayne]

Props to you Crabbok, you basically are doing a much better job than AMG's actual marketing team at letting me know what is happening in the games.

[@WeAreFulcrum]

As a player who joined x wing at the start of 2.0, these changes don't seem like they really "enhance" the game rather than just changing the experience to something different altogether.

[@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r]

New rules add unwanted complexity. I'll just stick with the 2.0 rules and play casually.

[@SeventhPhoenix]

I agree with you.

[@Zanollo5]

This

[@towerycs]

I am very nervous about the future of X-Wing. I'm teaching a friend how to play and I feel like I need to warn him that what he's learning to enjoy might not be the X-Wing of 2022 and beyond.

[@hwalker6200]

We came in during 2.0 at the kitchen table. And will likely stay with 2.0 rules for now.

[@MasterJediDude]

Gotta pull a Star Trek quote out here: “AMG is intelligent, but not experienced. Their pattern indicates two dimensional thinking.” After looking at what they’ve proposed, I don’t think that they understand the 3D world of Star Wars. 🤣🤣🤣. They need someone to explain the Z-axis to them.

[@danepatterson8107]

Exactly. They are totally dumbing this down so that star fighter models are just like infantry with really shitty movement rules and they are treating space like ground

[@centurosproductions8827]

To be fair, Star Wars has traditionally been ship combat in space, without nearly as much Z-axis as it should have. And X-Wing *is* played on a 2D zone with penalties already for "running into" things.

[@jefferydejnowski5554]

I think bumping into your own units is too punishing. Losing an action is bad enough; but possibly getting damaged also? At least instead of damage, receive a strain or deplete (you're concentrating on formation flying at the expense of your combat awareness.). My Gawd! Seems AMG HATES swarms. and I thought swarms were at the roots of X-Wing!

[@danepatterson8107]

You can see in these rules a real "Fuck You" to swarm styles of play. I keep saying that what AMG is changing feels like it's retaliation for some NPE they personally experienced.

[@MasterJediDude]

@@danepatterson8107 exactly! You hit the nail on the head.

[@chadnine3432]

I like the gas cloud changes. I always thought they should break target locks. Having a roll for ion tokens is good too. Makes them less of a "free" obstacle.

[@jonathanmartin3767]

Seems like they are making the game a bit more complicated with he bumping and range zero attacks. Part of the appeal to the game was the simple rule set. I somehow think AMG will start to release unpainted models.

[@Pmartshand]

You were right non painted minis in template form for you to put together. It makes sense though everybody paints their ships.

[@TheCrimsonSpirit]

Bumping ships will be devastating for newer players. Might be less fun for them if they bump and lose ships because of it.

[@danepatterson8107]

To me, it seems like punishment aimed at ending swarm lists.

[@thomasfleming8131]

The game they're making sounds fun, but I will say I can see the same problems I was seeing with Privateer Press when these guys were part of it. Talking about changes piece meal without considering how poorly those changes will be received without the whole picture. The reasoning for changes not really matching up with the changes themselves. I've always said Assmodee giving AMG all the star wars mini games at once was a mistake but I'm now thinking giving them any of them might have been.

[@MasterJediDude]

I actually stopped buying X-Wing products when AMG took over. I’m now watching to see what happens in the next 6 months.

[@danepatterson8107]

I was just thinking of getting back in and now I know I'll wait possibly forever.

[@pinoarias8601]

I got into the game a month ago, thankfully I got a 2nd hand 1st ed core set and a couple extra 2nd hand 1st ed ships.

[@kungpowerchicken]

Good stuff, thanks for the info!

[@camontalen3939]

Two words: seismic charges. As for scenarios, no one in the currently dead community that I used to play in ever wanted to play scenarios. It was always about the dogfights and trying to kill the opponent as quickly and easily as possible.

[@danepatterson8107]

You're the people who made AMG employees have NPEs! This is YOUR fault ;) (I agree with you man)

[@Crabbok]

Yeah seismic charges might end up being mandatory lol!

[@warhawkgarage]

Thanks for the video and info. Missed the amg stream but now I know what's up. Thanks

[@mostlycasualcommander]

Loving the content! Keep up the good work

[@davemeyer5860]

I'm unsure how I feel about all these changes, but will reserve judgment until we get the final write up and get some games in with the full rules. The scenarios sound like they should be fun though.

[@danepatterson8107]

What? Judge now! Before you have any meaningful real information! This is Merica!

[@centurosproductions8827]

Also, the U-Wing was printed so long ago... is it still available for purchase from the official site?

[@jessefellows2552]

I still have my 1.0 stuffed in a box but haven't played it since 2.0.

[@danepatterson8107]

At least you didn't do what I did: Quit when the TLT came out in 1.0; then came back and had to quit again when the Harpoon ruined the game! Then I came back after a year of 2.0 only to have the pandemic stop all public play. Now I'm left with all these 2.0 upgrades for a game that just jumped head-first into the shitter!

[@mandomerlie1997]

"It's not what you said you wanted to do" pretty much sums it up. They say they want to make it easier for new players but then hit them will punishing self bump (i did that so much in my first tourny) and catastrophic obstacles this will be so much more punishing for new players. They say they want more shooting but these scenarios will stop that. Also, I haven't heard many people complaining about the new rules for scoring, which for me is the worst part. The best outcome for both players is a 200 to 200 tie so why don't both players just fly off the table??? At the very least, the complex nature of finding your engagement is totally gone and you will just fly headlong towards your opponent. "If both players brawl one of them is wrong" is not applicable anymore. Players will have to brawl because they don't care about winning, they just care about destroying. I'll give it a chance, but I'm skeptical. Great video as always!

[@1234jsn5678]

This does feel like change just for change. My friends and I have just gone back to playing 1.0 at the kitchen table.

[@michaelwain3198]

I prefer v1 too

[@GTEverythingSucks]

Same. I think I’m done with the game.. been there from the beginning too... Gonna buy a gauntlet and a razor crest and make 1.0 cards for it.

[@epicon6]

Haha 1.0 is so bad. Have fun

[@DuoXCity]

@@epicon6 1.0, the system where everything you remove to adjust the meta just reveals something else meta breaking. FFG couldn't balance a game with a scale.

[@jorgehidalgo5571]

Thank for the update for the rules and also keep up the hard work and love the vids

[@rogue619]

Thanks for the info!

[@darthragnarok1489]

They probably said "2.5" because they didn't want to introduce a complete reboot when Embracer might take the game from them in the coming months/years, so they just implemented changes to force us into their play style for the time being

[@danepatterson8107]

Let us hope that time is short!

[@leiziru9642]

The thing is, if vast majority of the rulebook is getting changed and the game requires stuff not available in the Core Set whatsoever, then it is absolutely necessary to design and purchase a brand-new version of the said kit. As the game will be unplayable out of the box, in a nutshell. And that exactly is a new edition despite being advertised as 2,5. I want to play some of the leaked stuff out but I'd (quite frankly) much rather have them release it as a separate game mode rather than reshaping the whole game. Like, we'd have Standard Play, Epic Play and, let's say, Scenario Play instead of Standard and Epic they're going for. Let's not forget that part of the reasoning for people to like X-Wing as we have right now is its relative simplicity to learn while being difficult to master. I'm hopeful for the future but also concerned. I want to play their game but I'm not sure I want it to replace the game as we have.

[@saeklas]

Honestly their current way of doing things is going to bite them in the foot. Dripping info like this without a clear guide just allows people to nitpick the worst parts. To me the changes are complete BS, and given how new they are them saying 'trust us' doesn't hold much weight

[@WarbossGazbag]

Hey Crabbok, new to xwing anywhere I can watch some recent battle reports? Everything on KZbin seems not recent for game play.

[@keithadams1490]

Enjoyed the video a great deal. As someone coming back to the game after a long time away (stopped playing during 1st edition) I have a current rules general question. I down loaded the printed rules from AMG and the version is 1.3.2 dated 10/12/2021. Are the changes you discuss in this video included in the rule set I down loaded, or are these changes that I need to account for in my printed set?? Again, loved the video and it is a great source for a returning player of old.

[@Swimfastful]

Thanks for the great summary video. We’ll see what happens next.

[@XBrycent]

Interesting. I just decided to jump back into X-Wing after not playing since Wave 8 of 1.0. I was into 1.0 competitive scene at that time but haven’t played since. I heard about the AMG rule set change and thought now would be a good time to update my ships. Ordered 2.0 Core and each of the 2.0 upgrade packs. Not even gonna refresh myself on the game until these new rules release. I was a bit excited hearing about their goal of making it a dogfighting game again. I loved that about early 1.0. I share your concerns about what it seems they are actually doing with it. I’ve never even played a scenario. All about destroying ships by chucking dice and good positioning. I guess we’ll see how it goes.

[@lifeofandrewlynn9448]

I'm the opposite of you. I'm giving it a break. Pulled all my patreon bucks. After others play it for a few months, I'll take a look at the game again with a fresh mind and see if the game is something I want to play again.

[@mynameisfurstandiamfunky616]

1. AMG employees seem incompetent at playing X-Wing. I am not sure they understand some of the fundamentals of the game, so their experience of how to play it is skewed. 2. The scenario design is weird, as it incentivizes the objectives far too much over blowing up ships. In a game where a Separatist Gunship can park between a couple points to harvest 133% the value of blowing up a TIE Fighter _by literally doing nothing except hiding behind obstacles_ flies in the face of their stated objectives. (Hard to tell from the board image, but some objectives are arranged so a ship can be within range 1 of more than one objective, right?) There are also ways to game it with medium/large ships for a similar effect, as those get more "sit for the buck" as opposed to "bang for the buck". And which sizes of ships have the most 0 Square movements? Yeah.... 3. AMG like there being consequences for actions, and negatively incentivizing certain actions like bumping or colliding with obstacles. That's OK, but they don't seem as aware as to how to positively incentivize the types of play they state they want. X-Wing ships don't move like super heroes, for one thing.

[@danepatterson8107]

Well reasoned. They are treating space like ground and they are treating star fighters like bipeds. They're turning a starfighter game into an infantry game. The level of incompetence is fully transparent!

[@SeventhPhoenix]

100% spot on!

[@BobbyLCollins]

Have 2.5 rules already been implemented in the Fly Casual simulator? Because ships in that are damaged when they fly through their own ships pathing.

[@pcflynn1]

I really enjoy your videos. Thank you

[@michaelcalabretta8158]

Finally a livestream I wasn’t at work for and I still somehow missed it. I’m not a fan of x-wing going to almost all scenarios for standard play. It didn’t look or feel like a gritty dogfight. I’m game to give it a try. But I might stick with the last RRG the FFG team did for normal games.

[@danepatterson8107]

It certainly doesn't reflect a star fighter combat game from what I've witnessed.

[@ajlynch123]

Is there a new rule book out yet? I’m having a hard time squeezing these new rules in my head

[@Crabbok]

February is a likely time to get the full rules

[@ajlynch123]

@@Crabbok Thanks so much for all your coverage on this and our other favorite games.

[@shanesanderson87]

Great summary as always

[@hailstar2075]

I’m glad it’s not a full new edition. It feels like just yesterday that I converted everything to 2nd and I don’t think I play enough to buy into a 3rd

[@timmbit]

Time to just make my own rule set for the game, keep what I like and delete what I don't, And just play the way I want. 😊

[@cyberdaikaiju]

good video, iffy rules changes... need the full document to see if its any good

[@ambrosehuang897]

is any of this on the amg website?

[@agudarkshadow2418]

Im sorry but these rules are absurd its a completely different game its not a “”2.5”” its like a 4.0 and if i wanted to play a scenario game id play MCP and i don’t want to play MCP i want to play XWING and fly around and blow stuff up

[@bneil4059]

How is the center rule change enforced?

[@nicholasshaw5260]

So if 1.0 non reprinted ships are out....then way to crap on people who spent money on conversion kits. I love my StarVipers.

[@centurosproductions8827]

Play Extended. You know, like how everybody has been doing for years, even when Hyperspace existed.

[@bobwhited5786]

I haven't played xwing in over 4 years just dusted off the website and dust this weekend. Looking for an easy to use squad builder.

[@josephmoberly2109]

I just got a few cheap 1.0 ships on clearance (already have conversion kit) and to hear now that I can’t use them in standard? Very frustrating. I am curious to see if there is a net gain or loss in players or sales for them with all of these changes. So far it doesn’t look good.

[@danepatterson8107]

Well, where sales are concerned, at my FLGS, only about a dozen ships are in store. I know of no one who is playing X-Wing in central Tennessee/Nashville!

[@GundamMeister357]

Aww hell here we go!

[@danepatterson8107]

I'm going back to another game for a while...

[@GundamMeister357]

@@danepatterson8107 yea I’ll probably just stick to 2.0 for a while.

[@danteunknown2108]

@crabbok I'm rarely able to say I agree with you, but on a lot of this I do. Where there's some changes they are making I like, and the philosophy directionally I like as well generally, but the execution is extremely bizarre to put it as nicely as I can. Obstacle changes should have just been part of a new obstacles/environments pack and then make that tournament normal. The FFg environment packs were great fire me and I honestly don't think they need to deviate that far from those as a template to do scenarios. Bumping changes are just buggered all around. The only thing I like is the random init each round, but not this after dial nonsense. Or this arbitrary dice off chart thing. I've been playing with the random init before dials they talked about awhile ago since they mentioned it, and have actually really enjoyed it. We weren't following their chart though.

[@ratelmike8825]

Hi Crabbock. My son and I want to get into X-wing but now not sure. We were going to grab 2.0 core set and go Rebels and Empire. Should we hold off? Is there going to be a new core set and a complete new edition which makes the current edition defunct?

[@Crabbok]

You'll want the black box (second edition) core set to get started!

[@robozombie9026]

All these changes have been pushing me more and more to selling my collection which is heartbreaking because I'm a scum player we finally get the Gauntlet and Razor Crest.

[@christianpedraza8020]

Not impressed by the changes.

[@jeffbrown773]

I like Republic and I’ve been successful with it. If we are only using reprinted ships does that we only have 4 Republic ships (Eta, Delta 7, Vwing, and Laat)? Will they count Arc and Torrent?

[@thegalacticempire2632]

The Arc-170 and torrent are printed in 2.0 for republic, just not the rebels

[@breiman79]

I think I'll pick up a copy of the Razor Crest and copy of the Cad Bane ships and be done. May need to do some tweaking to them to make them playable with the 2.0 ruleset, but I've been buying ships since Wave 1 and I want to play X-wing, not whatever this is.

[@garethhuwwilliams6019]

Where do we get info on your give always? As in where do we hear who wins?

[@Crabbok]

I announce winners towards the end of videos.

[@darthragnarok1489]

"nobody played the scenarios ffg gave you in 1E, so now we're gonna force you to only play those in standard" - AMG probably

[@danepatterson8107]

Zactly. I've made scenarios that are way more fun. I do scenarios with an epic ship has to leave one side of the table (it can't fight). One side has to try to protect the epic and one side has to split resources between destroying it and not being destroyed themselves. I don't think it's a 'genius' idea of mine, but it's fun every time.

[@lexfighter24]

I'm kinda disappointed for these rules updates, I wish they focus more on the models and less on the cardboard stuff. I got 87 ships and I got tons of cards and tokens, but I don't have time to review all that. New upgrades are just to complex and hard to remember that I simply don't use them. I wish they would make campaigns stuff for RPG mod of the game, like Aturi Cluster one. Thank you for giving us the latest updates Crabbok, much appreciated!

[@skinflutey]

I second the RPG

[@TheSteamponkwordsmith]

Thanks for this, I just got X-Wing for my 50th and everyone in family is getting me ships. Looks like I picked a good time to get into the game!

[@Ty-yy7zr]

Is the so called banned card list going to affect all forms of play or just standard play with the objectives.

[@Greggles1138]

The banlist only applies to standard play. Extended play will still allow all ships and all cards.

[@leonardobrusco2282]

I don't think it's bad that they introduce scenarios but that they completely eliminate the way of playing as it has been done so far does not seem very smart to me. Most people are going to play extended as it is the closest thing to traditional Xwing.

[@centurosproductions8827]

We've been told that standard dogfighting *is* one of the scenarios, though.

[@lyianx]

8:40 Where are you reading "on a hit, youll gain an ion"? All i see from the text, is on a Crit, you gain enough ions to ionize you, but nothing happening on a hit result. Also, where are you reading (or did they say it) that gas clouds now prevent shooting?

[@Crabbok]

Will Schick said that during the stream as I was frantically taking notes. Could possibly be an error but we’ll have to see once the final rules come out.

[@Hornet5747]

Thank you for summarizing the changes. It’s sad to see the game lose its heart. AMG’s changes seem focused around taking away options instead of expanding strategy. As of this time, I will not continue to support them.

[@robbynance867]

Like the new build style, but rules are a bit heavier then before

[@cutlery4349]

Major Rhymer can reduce ordinance to range 0. Can he still fire them with the vague rules?

[@thegalacticempire2632]

Yes he can, essentially it allows him to modify it like normal

[@kajn3206]

I thought I'd do a hamerhed with a bag in a legion (like terrain or another ship

[@Eagle_600]

In dogfight game you take the dogfight out the game?

[@Eagle_600]

Going to world of world of tanks

[@Septulum]

I'm happy to see objective play, but I don't like the design of these objectives, they sound both very abstract and quite boring. The armada objectives were much more interesting, and didn't discourage combat I thought.

[@darthragnarok1489]

The best scenario gameplay for X-wing was HotAC....

[@erichludwig2095]

It still is

[@jamesjohnes4761]

I've played several games with the new rules and scenarios, and the game is a blast. The strategies you have to use make the game less reliant on the dice, and more reliant on what you do as a whole. For anyone giving up on this game simply because it's changed, give the new rules and scenarios a shot first before you make your decision. It won't be for everyone, but the game certainly isn't crap. Just think about it this way: If these were the rules when the game first came out, would you still have started playing? If the answer is no, then I hope you are able to find a new hobby soon that can replace X-wing. Give the new rules a shot. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[@thatblastedsamophlange]

So the obstacle issue is very punishing, especially for new players, but I can live with that. The idea of objective play is actually something I like. It means that when you build a list, you have to account for the different situations - so that is a good thing in my opinion. I would honestly love to see something similar to how legion does it, but you can choose obstacles, objective, etc, but having to build a fleet that is versatile is a good thing, and hopefully will bring more ships into being used. Seems that tractor tokens have just become even less useful. The bumping rules.. I like that you can attack at range 0. But how does it work with only the person bumping takes damage? is it supposed to be the two ships colliding? shouldn't they both take damage? I think with how damaging bumping is, there should be a way to bring in the epic play formation token. Fold that into the actual game. All in all, I think x-wing is taking a downward turn. I honestly liked the Ares Games Battlestar Galactica gameplay so much more than x-wing in many ways. We'll see how it goes.

[@pinoarias8601]

Having only the bumpee take damage kills the only fun potential this rule's change had, ramming. If they made it so you could purposely bump into an enemy ship for 1 guaranteed damage it would make choice-making so much more interesting

[@danepatterson8107]

The scenarios they have are regurgitated infantry-game scenarios. This flat out doesn't work for a star fighter game where you ALWAYS have to move in a forward direction (large ships being an exception; thus possible way more dominant in 'objective' based play). There are way better scenarios to design out there.

[@thatblastedsamophlange]

@@danepatterson8107 I won't say that their scenarios are the best, but the idea behind it is, I think a good one.. just not the implementation.

[@thatblastedsamophlange]

@@pinoarias8601 I would totally do a TIE swarm based around ramming.. Or double decimator.

[@raymondliong4304]

Liked

[@herculesmwp7983]

I’ll give it a chance, very skeptical

[@lebverderben]

I've been gradually slipping away from X-Wing since the start of 2nd edition. As someone that didn't want to play as the new factions (too expensive to buy into new factions as well as a new edition), having a couple of years with no new ships for either of the two factions that I play (Rebellion and Empire), I began to disengage. The pandemic has largely cut me off from the local community. These new rule sets seem like a good time for me to wish the hobby a farewell, at least as far as competitive X-Wing is concerned. I'll probably still play occasional kitchen table matches, but they'll almost certainly be using older rulesets.

[@DuoXCity]

I'm in the same boat as you, up until the end there. I'm excited, maybe the game will become something I want to play again. 2.0 was drab power gaming for elitists, let them go back to their 40k tables.

[@punxu9ted]

so many changes....will be hard to get used to.....at least at home you can always play what you want to.

[@mikeg8564]

Objectives shouldn't be location based, it should be pilot based. Example . : (this pilot) must get the first kill. : (this pilot) must preform a stress manoeuvre at range 1. So then you must choose, hmm do i want to get a kill or do i want to do this thing my pilot does (so they can play / act like their lore) or do i take advantage of the moment I'm in... Imagine Luke could get the kill, but jek would get more points if he did (for reasons) ... but he won't be in range till next turn... choices!

[@danepatterson8107]

Good ideas. I'm with you that my issue with scenarios is that what they've showed us is STUPID for a starfighter combat game. They're treating it like it's an infantry game and you can just stand and not move.

[@mikeg8564]

@@danepatterson8107 definitely, location based objectives should be attack and defend. Space station, convoy, Battlefleet Gothic had some great scenarios non were fixed locations, like in infantry wargames.

[@abusha777]

Silly. I’ll keep playing the way I’ve always played.

[@JayPalmHat]

Scenarios are fine as a side show. But the main event should always be dog fights. This is a highly thematic game. And the theme doesn't track well on most scenarios. Taking part in a battle where my favourite characters are all together in a dog fight is exciting!!! Luke Skywalker flying circles around blue satellites for reasons unknown... is not.

[@danepatterson8107]

To reduce the star fighter combat game to a game of quadrant control is disgusting to me (as in: i'm getting ill thinking about it!). They're totally turning this into an infantry type game with really shitty movement templates for such a game.

[@chrisfields8077]

Why? Did they not learn that these massive changes just push people away?

[@dernachtschreck830]

Comments under the original vid are disabled. Well well... I think I will stay with 2.0 rules. It doesnt seem, that AMG understands the core feeling and tactics of this game.

[@jonbarker2808]

Love your videos man! You are my go to X-Wing Professor!

[@isped8650]

ahhh they mean 2.5+0.5 edition

[@warpaint9385]

New rules lol. Uh huh! Whatever, still on 1.0. Haven’t played in ages.

[@metalplayer1111]

This all feels a awful lot like "new players changing half the rulebook because they dont want to bother with the learning curve". I wonder how many AMG Employees played X-Wing long-term before the takeover? None of them? Or maybe just a few that lost some games and thought "well this game sucks". I cant see any balance-related reason for changing so many core mechanics of the game, this just feels like AMG doesnt like X-Wing they way it is very much. Wrong Company then, maybe?

[@olivergunson]

The game sounds very complicated but looks interesting, be curious to give it a go one day

[@crazykev1985]

Stopped playing entirely. Sad to see AMG destroy a game I loved. Now my fighters make great display models.

[@johnparker7286]

Excited about the changes. On the stream, it sounded like the focus/calculate action when bumping an enemy would have to be red.

[@Krix6426]

AMG must have taken loss after loss in X-Wing. It does not matter to me anymore. I do not like the apps, as sometimes I want to play in unwired places. I will keep Ares: Battlestar Galactica starship battles on my shelf for when I get an itch for a good space dogfighting game. All the best tho.

[@kevinselzer1669]

Wow, what a slap in the face to all of us that spent over 200 bucks to upgrade. Gee thanks I can't enjoy my ships anymore. Can't wait to play them in 2026 when they eventually come out due to supply issues, thanks 🙄. I can't believe they nuke 20+ ships just as people are getting back into playing in stores. Whoever made that call must be a former employee of EA with that behavior.

[@Ty-yy7zr]

Why do these massive changes on a system that has worked for years.

[@seanredmond1366]

I'm basically going to play the way I want. Some of these rules are ok like the obstacle changes, but I hate ROAD and the new bump rules and the scenarios are dumb. It's going to be all turrets and seismic charges and swarms are dead. That's unbelievably silly.

[@jthor9535]

Geez. AMG just needs to stop with the modifications. Before we even have a chance to digest the last round, they come out with this stuff. Miniature gamers don’t want massive reboots and changes to games they play. Awesome recap, I can’t even watch their live streams anymore, so keep it up!

[@nicholassiewerth2602]

I’m not a fan of this, I agree, this sounds like change just to make a change instead of trying to address any issues with the game.

[@thebigo81]

I too like scenario game modes.. I can get behind that at least.

[@danepatterson8107]

Are you happy with scenarios taken verbatim from Marvel Crisis Protocol? Because that's what you're going to get. They treat space like it's ground and they treat star fighters like they are infantry, ignoring all the meaningful differences that a space combat game should be! They're reducing agile star fighters (that always have to move forward) to mere leg infantry and if you can't see the flaw in that logic then you're going to have to learn when no one shows up to play this gadawful adaptation of star-fighter combat!

[@turtlevader]

LVO will be adopting some of these rule changes.

[@danepatterson8107]

I'll be very interested to hear the feedback from LVO

[@nove2485]

I like objective play rules at least.

[@danepatterson8107]

It's absurd. There are so many better ways to conceive of scenarios than just "quadrants.' Quadrants are for infantry games like MCP

[@lyianx]

as an ALTERNATE style of play, maybe. As a FORCED replacement? Fuck no.

[@elliottweights3046]

Your last 10 mins hit a lot of nails on heads

[@fredbettesworth5397]

Too many changes for me Especially as nobody is playing due to covid

[@danepatterson8107]

Yeah I haven't seen anyone playing X-Wing since January 2020...

[@tabletopgeeks]

Sound good to me. :)

[@danepatterson8107]

I'm turned-off in a big way. Does anyone remember all those Star Wars ships wrestling over a little dime in space? I get the impression that these changes are retaliation for some NPEs that AMG employees experienced. It feels punitive. Your channel (and Discord!) are really great sources of information for me as I've been on the fence about getting back in to X-Wing again. The answer for me right now is 'no!'

[@joeswift403]

Like you I'm keeping an open mind, but they're not really selling me their new vision for the game. The play through seemed a little dull and I love scenario based games. The move from the roots isn't feeling natural either, more forced, that's not a good way to go. On a plus side they are putting these changes out into the wild for us to look at, comment on and hopefully listen to our concerns.

[@danepatterson8107]

I've made scenarios that are way way better than anything published by FFG, and I don't mean that as a brag: it's just that their scenarios never make sense! Every scenario that I design has an epic ship to be destroyed (it can't fight - it just has to fly off the table/blow up). There are so many better scenarios that you can take right out of the IP directly!

[@sandshark2]

The new bumping rules are just a complex version of the original rules. Range 0 usually has no attack because the pilot is too focused dodging the ship it’s about to ram. That’s why bumping isn’t so “punishing” - your ship isn’t actually hitting the ship, but your pilot is getting stressed and using all actions and focus to scrape by and not blow up. Imagination plays a role in a 2d tabletop game as usual. The new rules just kinda throw pilot self-preservation out the window and treat the ships as piloted by yourself. You can shoot yes, but it’s a bad shot and you suck at dodging so woopsie you scraped the ship and got damage! But this harms the cohesion with the ship cards and abilities so AMG had to add exclusions for ship cards so you can still imagine the ships being flown by Star Wars characters and not yourself. Overall, stupid and unimaginative