Xeno-Erotic: HR Giger's Alien Re-Design

from Alien Quadrilogy Box Set, DVD 6 - Alien3 Special Features

[@artes.impias]

If Giger had done this movie himself it would've been the most traumatizing mindfuck ever! What an imagination!

[@ViscountSinistere]

You would never ,ever ,slept !

[@jordanthomas4379]

It also would have been amazing, and far better than what we got.

[@micmacha]

I always felt like Alien 3 had a solid foundation; its only real problems seemed to stem from studio interference. I don't even have a direct problem with Fincher-most of his stuff is great! Likely because the IP had such a price tag attached to it, nobody got to really follow their dreams with the movie.

[@DoctorPretorious616]

Farewell to a visionary artist, you made your nightmares into masterpieces. Rest in peace, Hans Ruedi Giger.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

who is resting.....he's probably still doing this.....art....on the....otherside?......!!!!

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

I get the impression he is still doing this....

[@adamhurst4219]

Imagine being any type of artist and been given a first hand invitation to meet with Giger at his studio, in his work environment, whilst mid-work on another film focused on bringing that work, that environment, that frighteningly wonderful brilliance that was Giger's vision to life only to lose it and even worse the respect of Giger himself, solely for the sake of a studio's greed and impatients. This would be almost soul crushing to most. As I am nothing of an artist myself I can't truly imagine what it would feel like to lose that opportunity.

[@itsmeme8544]

This is so true it remainds me of the Jodorowsky's Dune kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqbPlZJ5gteao9U

[@1Sky1]

i would probably risk my job to have met giger in an invitation to his studio. the man was truly one of the greats and so inspirational in so many areas that people don't even realize. he'll probably be up there with lovecraft in a few decades.

[@paulkerrigan9857]

Such a passionate artist. So mysterious and atypically interesting.

[@Br0kenMask]

This guy says: His goal was to respectfully represent Gigers work, yet they refused the invitation and he was barely involved in the movies. 7:30 this is the reason why so many movies and games suck these days. Because there is no more place fo creativity. Everything is now now now, we need more money and we need it now!

[@poncho899]

Couldn't put it better myself. Damn shame that it has to work that way.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Practicality matters.

[@OpenMawProductions]

There was nothing impractical about Giger's designs in terms of bringing them to life. The problem, which has been stated so many times, that Alien 3 went to production without a finalized script, and with an impeding release date. What they should have done is gone with Gibson's second draft, had Giger design the "new breed" alien creature, and had the film out in 1991. It would have been more conventional, consistant, and of better quality than Alien 3 came out as, which is a really messy film.

[@Handsomegargoyle04]

And political correctness is a huge issue too.

[@billkeon880]

every major studio have budgets and once they get rolling are extremely pressed for time. Independent studios have much more leeway for creativity but lack financial resources. THIS IS WELL KNOWN FOR DECADES. Blaming the studio , or worse, the individual set designers etc... is crazy. Giger should have known this. You should know this. Don't act surprised or blame the middle and lower talent. Even Scott had not much to say about budgets and time-lines early in his career. Babies. This is how conspiracy thinking gets started. "I can't see inside the black box so it must be nefarious". Giger got butt-hurt. He's a big boy, grow up. He got the main thrust of his vision on the screen. If he has 50 ideas for Aliens, the director or producers aren't obliged to use all of them. Christ

[@sam6_6]

I feel like they didn’t appreciate Giger as much as they should have. It looked like he put so much time and effort into his sketches and drawings. And he loved doing them, you can really see the passion and excitement when he’s explaining everything. I know they had their vision but Giger is an absolute genius, they should have listened to him more and god damn flew over to see what he did but instead they didn’t. 1 weekend like come on, where’s the respect for the artist?

[@tylerevans3168]

His art was so disgusting and creepy even Giger himself got freaked out... Truly awesome

[@eugeniosabater8449]

If he was even disgusted by it that tells you how good he was! Sometimes my own art surprise me too like I'm asking to myself "who is this guy who design this things?"

[@NickProkhorenko]

What was creepy? I have not scared by his design.

[@tylerevans3168]

@@NickProkhorenko being creepy and scary are two different things. Its creepy by design because its biomechanical. Combining flesh and machinery. Familiar yet alien and in part comforting and at the same time concerning.

[@zeus7623]

It must have been frustrating for him to try to push some art which frightened his audience. Like an extreme, raw, fear. He was an absolute genius.

[@amarug]

I used to live next to him in Zurich. His garden was full of fantastical, eerie creations, including a whole mini rideable "horror train" that went through his garden, touring around his exhibitions!

[@toddbridgesx]

Did you hang out with him?

[@yoiashi]

cant believe they didnt choose giger's alien in alien 3, thats really fuked up

[@Gist432]

If only his visions would have been put to life, that movie would have been so much more. An erotic french-kiss with a xenomorph though, escalating to the point where it's tongue went through the back of the victims skull and retracting, dragging with it all the insides... that would be to much for the faint hearts of their target audience.

[@ScornedOne1080]

When you have a youngster bursting out of someone's chest, that's kinda brutal in the first place. Pulling someone's insides out is being done in fucking MKX right now.

[@parkdarker]

His ideas on the alien concept devised for Alien3 are something to marvel at. You will be missed, but your art and spirit lives on forever

[@cheemsoftheocean7569]

I love how he just casually talks about how aliens rip peoples faces out like a story he’d bring up at the dinner table in Christmas evening

[@TubeSteak]

man, Alien 3 is the great lost movie. there's so much promise in it, and none of it comes together for me.

[@farbrore]

Except one scene. The amazing exterior images with the blowing debris! And that soundtrack to it...

[@donniecatalano]

yes. From then on I stopped watching them tbh

[@Hellstrom1939]

Scatman.

[@JediBunny]

He was such a genius... I could've listened to his ideas and concepts forever... wish he'd had more input in the later films

[@AjaxTotaalnl]

RIP. Respect to a true artist.

[@oinkleberry]

Such a tragedy that he is gone. The machinations from his nightmares fascinate me. But all of those unique images & ideas are now gone. We can only now try to be respectable when referencing his style, but never will we truly match it in his absence.

[@shahadahazizah7622]

I wish I had the honor of meeting Mr. Giger. His work takes my breath away.

[@GrizzlyRed]

Holy crap I didn't even know about these designs he had done! Alien 3 would have been SO MUCH better if they went with the more erotic and unique designs.

[@shotgun6125]

Notice how when he starts talking about the kissing he gets more nervous. I can understand why

[@garycoates4987]

I may the only person but I enjoyed ALIEN 3 , they really did drop the ball by the things they didn't use of Giger's design.

[@Notfast86]

I'm inspired by Giger, amazing artist!!...since finding out about his work I began to put no boundaries into my work...sometimes there's erotic motive within the drawings I do, and it is okay to do so. our paper, canvas, clay is for us and our imagination and visions...with no limits 👌

[@MrDjScreamshit]

HR Giger is perfect, unadulterated genius. He is the embodiment of original, unique idea from which all modern mass media things steal ideas. You had to give that person all the time for his ideas..... But why, you know, for you time and money is most important!

[@k.arlanebel6732]

Giger is the rare figure of genuine genius and a true visionary artist with the actual skill necessary to realize his visions and there is no way that the big money controllers will ever fully support such a man. They only want to steal from him so they can create mainstream productions that bring in more money. Giger remains in the background and people like Scott, Cameron, and Fincher get the attention and the praise and the funding. But compared with Giger these men are nothing but hacks and thieves living off of the blood of real talent - the kind of talent that sends electricity through your nerves and makes you dizzy and lucid at once with depth of reality revealed. Can you imagine what we might have if Giger were given the artistic control he deserves?

[@d-d-i]

Umm, let's fix something. Scott wasn't after the goods, he was doing his passion: movie making with fantastic visuals and vision. And Scott truly was the driving force and the only one, who actually admired Giger's work and brought it to a spotlight on the world (and finding of Giger's work is credited to Dan O'Bannon, writer of Alien, who then told about it to Scott). Without his (Scott) vision and admire, Giger's work would have never reached these high levels of respect, attention and admire he had gained in his career after Alien. Haters might hate, but beware, Cameron, while he did a great sequel, he was doing the movie with heavy alterations to the Alien-creature in the sense of practicality of movie making (+production costs and time, propably), losing much of the things, that Giger wanted to his alien to look like and be like. They were like stuntmen on a rubber suits, not an art pieces anymore. And they didn't even involve Giger in the production at all, that only tells, that they wanted to save money and go through with their own, forced and altered vision of alien, without having Giger involved on the production. At least on Alien 3, they really wanted to get the Giger involver heavily on the movie, kinda like going back to the first movie in sense of style, but this time, studio was rushing things and people maybe just forgot to pay homage to the Giger's work. That's why the movie ended up being such a flop, and the alien was not respecting Giger's vision and his work on that movie was basically wasted. But we can't blame Fincher for that, he was basically a puppet for studios.

[@EL-im2pu]

20th Century Fox introduced Ridley Scott to the artist HR Giger and gambled that this new upstart movie director would not direct this movie into a Horror B movie they wanted an A rated movie. There policy has changed since then.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

K. Arlan Ebel A better blooming film than Alien: Covenant that’s for sure.

[@Yeame143]

@@EL-im2pu it was one of the writers who already knew of Giger(who was already an accomplished airbrush artist, and the creator of an art form he named biomechanic) Scott was handed a copy of The Necronomicon which already had versions of the alien in it(I still own an old copy I paid $100 for in the 80's) when Scott saw the book he said that's it look no further. Things got fucked up when the need to produce an even more successful sequel became the most important thing to the production team. Sad what the movies could have been if they got out of the way of genius.

[@MetatroN197924]

You will have the true alien origins,Alien home planet along with the beings that created them.All in giger fashion.A movie that never made.

[@mb7050]

Im so drawn to HR Giger's work.

[@TravelandBang]

FYI- After this interview the studio film producers stole his alien design concepts for Alien3 and then ran off and filmed the movie without him, they didn't even give him a shout out in the film credits. Just goes to show you how shady some film producers are...

[@migthulhu]

Everyone wants Giger to create their monsters but never really want Giger's monsters. If only Giger had made a feature length of his own.

[@rhondawentzell6959]

Sad that he passed away. I wish he hadn’t embraced evil. I hope in the afterlife that he is ok…. Such talent & he was a gentle man.

[@nicksothep8472]

I remember him saying something unbelievably illuminating once, he said that he didn't paint his realistic nightmares because he enjoyed them, or wish they were real, he did it to exorcise his deepest fears. This stuck with me like velcro, and allowed me to realize that I've been doing the very same thing with my (much shittier) art, being music, drawing, writing etc.. It is so obvious, yet it's not. Giger was a real artist, one of the last, and maintained a very humble attitude up to his final days.

[@djstorre1]

incredible vision from an incredible visionary artist. Your work will be loved for years to come

[@marachime]

"and finally 'suck'" this is incorrect - he's using the German word 'zack' which means roughly 'there it is!' or 'presto!' in this context

[@nicholasdickens2801]

I do feel immensely for Tom and Alec. They did keep Gigers designs so faithful in Alien3. It’s a shame Fox didn’t see it that way and it was obvious that they tried to change the character to make it so different they’d not have to pay Giger or acknowledge him. The only misstep in the whole franchise I think was either stripping the biomechanics from Alien Covenant or the Newborn in Alien Resurrection.

[@raymondayala2603]

His concept really came to life with the Species creature, They completely went the other way with Alien 3.

[@patrickgray4905]

Every inch that the Alien franchise moves from the deeply unsettling, nebulous, sexual fears, compulsions and desires upon which the genius of Mr. H.R. Giger ran is an inch nearer disaster: I refuse to watch Cameron's work out of hand. It is frankly scandalous that these frightening conceptions, of such great merit, were not incorporated, even if six films were necessary. Although he accepts it with the grace of a gentleman, his work was abandoned, an insolent dismissal without even the courtesy of a letter, as art and covetous business do not coincide readily. The sheer amount of sophistry from the film production are astonishing: how on Earth does one ''present Giger's work'' respectfully by ruining it with idiotic concept and worse execution while ignoring the artist's patient work: the sheer discourtesy of refusing to see his maquette is disgusting. Fincher was an ass, incapable of appreciating Giger's bizarre, archetypal, Freudian horrors and we were lumbered with Fortunately we possess his mad fever-dream of fused flesh and machinery, of spliced erotica and horror, on paper, in sculpture and in his books. I came across Giger at ten or eleven by way of Salvador Dali, his work has terrified and allured me ever since. Privately I believe that apart from 'Alien', none of the other films should be seen or taken to be representative of his work: his nightmare lives on in his drawings and sculptures only, not in the commercial abuse of his work by Hollywood. H.R. Giger was great man and one I would have dearly liked to meet.

[@patrickgray4905]

I ought to add that it is likely an inevitable consequence of mass-appeal films. Class and education are irrelevant here, there are a smattering of souls who are nearer the veil of the Other than the great majority, they can perceive and appreciate eroto-mechanical archetypes from the remote psychic past while most cannot. I am a dim observer who cannot reach far beyond the veil, many can go far further, Giger furthest of all. Neither the money-men nor the censors nor the review-hacks want Giger's vision: it is too unsettling, too hideous, too beautiful for them. Beauty and horror should not, in the sentimental eyes of our world, be fused, we ought not be frightened by the darkest and worst suggestions of our minds, especially sexual ones, we want ''heroes'', ''plot'' conventially taken and ''action'', or worse of all ''cool'' creatures readily made into figurines -- and so long as this absurdly prudish, parochial attitude is retained (which many, many people always will), Giger's work will fall on dry soil.

[@patrickgray4905]

Please forgive the atrocious proof-reading, I cannot get ''edit'' to work. I do not literally believe in a veil, but rather the realms of the collective unconscious, although there are more things in Heaven and Earth...

[@joseluisgomez6404]

@@patrickgray4905 such powerful words!!! Truly from the heart. thank you so much. Have you been to Giger´s museum?

[@henriquebitencourt4280]

Thankfully he could reutilize the design in Species

[@Damuramu]

Quick question.... you ARE aware that Giger publicly approved and applauded Camerons work with the Xenomorphs right? You are aware of the fact that Giger went on record as saying that the Xenomorph Queen in particular was "Fasinating". Since the only change made to the Xenomorph between the films was the removal of the smooth glossy dome on its head, why would Giger need to be consulted on that? He is still credited for the creature concept. I think you judge the second film too harshly and shouldnt include it in your boycott

[@unkind8294]

Always inspiring 💞🙏

[@donraid8277]

Absolute genius art work and sculptures it blows my mind watching documentary’s on him 🤯

[@nirvanafatal]

he was a genius.

[@Gothiczartan]

H R Giger gone. They need someone to take over the H R Giger designs for films, TV shows, video games, costumes, fashion, Kid's stuff even Disney. Gotta love that H R Giger work.

[@stevemora7845]

They should of done it Giger's way. The third movie would of been great like the original and in the end made even more money!

[@bikeguy3034]

So 'under the pump' to accept an invitation by one of the greatest artists ever in this field..oh and the guy that designed the creature for the file you are making. Yea sure. Sounds more like couldn't be bothered getting on a plane and flying there for a couple days more like it!! Fuking rude.

[@inkwarp]

he was terrified of flying,,,

[@freffo3407]

If Giger only could be alive today and work for Oats Studios. Or have his own movie studio.

[@Blorp52]

They should’ve used this design honestly. It’s beautiful in a very horrific way and would’ve fit the tone of the film well

[@gigerdevoter5577]

It is so unfortunate tat HR Giger was thrown under the bus despite the studio wanting to hire him for his designs. It is ironic that they wanted to pay respect to the original alien, but they wanted to redesign the creature all together in order to have a dog like monster that lacked the spirit of the design. Due to the studio interference and the replacement of directors, there was no vision to begin with...

[@nickfanzo]

Unfortunately movie making is a business. Business will always suffocate true art. Once it gets to money making decisions true creativity is smothered and altered.

[@drm2566]

It is ironic when Geiger talks about dark subject matter that his repulsiveness is palpable and yet his work epitomises darkness and repulsiveness

[@demonofrazgriz333]

it's erotic in a psycho/sexual sense. he's a surealist, which uses fruedian psycho/sexual imagery alot.

[@D00MC0RE]

Magnificent Creator! His art is a great proof, that the human imaginations are boundless. RIP

[@stevejohn429]

Love the phallic-like alien head

[@ccfly222]

Genius at work!

[@crogthekritter]

It was really big mistake David Fincher was director of this Alien. Every ideas by Giger were brilliant, but world is one bitch and all of them must stay only on the paper.

[@solarbubble703]

Fincher was not the problem, he did everything he could. Fox is the only one to blame.

[@caffeinated4671]

RIP Hans Rüdi Giger

[@myrkflinn4331]

Giger deserved his own type of alien movie. Not from Ridley Scott. But a whole production on this! Like a documentary of the alien development

[@samrizzardi2213]

What should we call this original design? Pfeiffermorph (in reference to its lips)? Succumorph (in reference to the succubus)? Pornomorph (you get the idea)?

[@samrizzardi2213]

Certainly better than "ladymorph". Some xenomorph castes are simply named after some form of medieval social role (queen, palatine, warrior etc.). In that case, how about "Alien Concubine"?!

[@ScornedOne1080]

Well, since it was supposed to be more cat-like, Cougarmorph. lol

[@truthfilter]

i would call it a Paramorph a use of an old french word PARAMOUR meaning "by love"

[@ShiftyMcGoggles]

Philiamorph, as in -Philia suffix to denote a form of non-traditional sexual attraction, since the name Xenomorph is such a clinical term, it should probably keep with that. Cold, clinical, unwanted, unnatural, mechanical...Used to describe something erotic, aesthetic but also non-terrestrial in almost every way beyond. So as to keep in theme with the rest of Gieger's biomechanical theme.

[@ferchunau]

Realmente el fue el creador de la especie "Xenomorph"... Ahora entiendo porque le dicen el padre de "Alien", básicamente el lo creo todo pero la producción cambio varias formas de sus ideas..

[@robinschicha4712]

You can still make a movie with this. IN THE FUTURE!!

[@houseoffirebellytoads1439]

Stfu this movie will suck

[@isaacvaldez9563]

absolute genius

[@Lyzokiel]

If this was canon, Imagine the amount of R34 this is gonna produce. also this will make the all xenomorphs are females make more sense...imo

[@hewolfshamanic]

well he refered them as "he"

[@TheLionKiller101]

Doesn’t matter what a movie monster looks like because no matter how scary it is there will always be rule 34

[@jordanthomas4379]

What a shame we didn't get to see the movie Giger wanted us to. It looks to me like Fincher and Giger should have been the ones to make this movie, instead it was the studio who burned time and money on rewrites and irrelevant technicalities. the movie Giger describes sounds better than anything that has come out since.

[@micmacha]

"It should be Bambi-a creature you like! But not too nice." -What I thought HR Giger said.

[@micmacha]

Nope. That's exactly what he said. I love this guy.

[@Cyberdinemechatron]

Giger himself should have directed an Alien movie, I am sure he would have been able to do it.The movie with all the aspects of the new Alien could have been a completely different and terrifying level... 🙂

[@eduardorivera4343]

Alec Gillis pisses me off How DARE he take and hijack Giger's design!

[@solarbubble703]

He was pushed by the production. He's probably as frustrated as Giger was. Same happened to him for the Thing Prequel. They worked for months on amazing animatronics, and at the last minute, the studios forced them to replace everything with CGI.

[@biteme4322]

Even Giger calls the Alien HIM. So checkmate, everyone who thinks that The Alien is only a female...

[@jirikrajnak9047]

3:39 ...and suddenly SCHWATSCH! 4:59 and then finally... ZACK!

[@obiwankenobi661]

imagine the tone and story premise of alien 3 with sufficient money and time... omg.

[@stevejohn429]

Should you people visited him following the invitation, you would be the luckiest lot to meet and see this artist only once in your lifetime, bro

[@Re88eN]

The idea that the prisoners were mostly rapists and celibates and having the alien be this feminine monster that kisses them to death sounds so much better!

[@Andrew-el8xi]

Love his work totally mind blowing .. all his own style that only people can copy badly !! Alien 3 was a great opportunity missed by a mile why they used CGI so badly I can only think they ran out of time .it looked glowing dark green .

[@TheRubberStudiosASMR]

Alien 3 is a great conclusion

[@worldwildwest]

The stuntman Kevin Peter Hall (who also wore the Predator costume) was 6.8 high, that means these Costume had to be molded to Fit righ.

[@stephenkissane4268]

He also did poltergeist II. I wonder what creations were cut from that

[@lucifer2997]

THE GREAT MASTER H GIGER

[@mrgodzillaraptors8632]

The imagination if this man is insane. Rest in peace.

[@oldgit4260]

In other words: we wanted a hit movie and pushed aside any ideas that might take that away from us. Surprise surprise!

[@TikiShootah]

Sir your art will NEVER be fap matieral for me lol

[@MetalScull]

I hopew that Scott will bringmost of Giger's ideas to life in prequel, for example blades between fingers and a kiss..

[@berndpfaffe2365]

There should not be an Aliens 2, 3, 4 and so on. I never look these films after the original Alien from 1979. There is only one.

[@norseczar27]

Aliens was amazing. Alien 3 was good cause it went back to ALien. Alien ressurrection WTF was that shit?

[@namexox]

I was waiting years for the 2nd making of Alien it was REAL SCI-Fi The 2nd Alien movie was just an action packed non thinking military movie The 3rd Alien movie just put a nail in its coffin The rest of the Alien movies don’t exist I just have to see if in the future they remake the 2nd Alien to Real SCI-FI standards like the remaking of the original movie The THING.

[@jojo-dr1ti]

the studio put everyone involved in a pinch, if they could've all worked together and taken some time and involved 1/10th of what Giger provided here, it would've been a worthy follow up to the original, instead it's a stylized cash in that Weaver would've been right to refuse.

[@MrIronJustice]

I blame the original screenwriter for trying to put a cow alien with acid utters in the script, revising it multiple times, then just bailing on the project.

[@georgiak6017]

Really enjoyable

[@deadbeatz1561]

Tom Woodruff, Jr. Y'all F**KED UP..

[@samhain1914]

This is awesome.

[@aurozappa305]

WOW Did they ever screw number 3 up ......... the Bambi burster >>>>> what were they thinking !

[@EL-im2pu]

What were they thinking ! > Walt Disney toy sells for the kids

[@OpenMawProductions]

The Bambi burster is actually a really slick idea. It's giving you a twist on what you're expecting from the creature.

[@fjoa123]

Mlnster designers. What a cool job.

[@nicholasraso6742]

giger is awesome

[@sludgebeastt]

of course Giger was unhappy with the result. he had a lot of designs, but they were all incredible. the xenomorph is his creation, like a baby. i respect them trying to honor the series with Alien 3, but it could’ve been so much better.

[@michaelswords4416]

We almost could of had a wolverine xenomorph.

[@eronacalloway9159]

The Alien in the Third movie HAD to look different, it was Half Dog.

[@swifty1969]

as much as I love HR Giger's work, some of those designs he proposed would not have worked like the alien with sexy female lips. Can you guys/gals imagine the first alien with sexy lips..LOL!! Also, I'm surprised that he didn't care much about Alien's inner mouth. At least I'm glad some of those concepts did make it in the movie Species.

[@MrIronJustice]

I liked the idea... maybe I'm in the minority here, but I feel like that sort of erotic aspect of them is fascinating. I think we got a glimpse of it in Alien Resurrection with the clone Ripley being all affectionate with them. The xenomorphs are such a versatile variable creature, i think many forms with different moods are possible.

[@toddbridgesx]

I wish he would've made his own films

[@conkerboy]

They took some of these skeches ideas for the Species movie

[@lennylate2114]

Daaamn thats cool

[@TamasKalman]

i understand why they rejected his new designs. it doesn’t means his not a genius and his original designs will be immortal.

[@leckey119]

That man just had to be disturbed

[@ThornsOfOurTime]

no he wasnt, you're just disturbed by him

[@TheJoshdd214]

Back to its Roots / Scary scary stuff !!! But he’s still the Creator!! HR Giger ..

[@williambryant5771]

Does anyone know what substance the aliens skin , and the creature in Species is made of .

[@jsalazar373]

Honestly for alien 3 with the monks, only men jail this idea with lips would’ve been interesting but whoever film don’t go this far. Honestly HR had an amazing imagination , RIP.

[@eugeniosabater8449]

Only in the deepest darkest Giger fantasies!!!!!! Rated R for mature audiences only!!!!!!!!!

[@karyncrook910]

The Money Machine rode of hr giger and that truly sucks.

[@Necr0Cys2topsY]

If only they had more time, that alien would be badass

[@Tod_x]

this video is much better

[@nirvanafatal]

How dare you alienated the Master ?