Xenoblade 2's Chapter Problem (and how XC1 Could've Had it Worse)

This week was awful for me school-wise, so I'm sorry about the lower quality than usual. Hopefully I'll have more time to put next week's video together. Also yes, I said something negative about XC2, sue me.
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[@aggressivelymediocre350]

The Chapter 8-9 split is so bizarre. You can really tell that they really wanted ten chapters exactly for some reason. That split specifically is probably because of the removed Torna content, but there was still no obligation to have _exactly_ ten chapters.

[@fathm4623]

Ten chapters does sound better than 9 though, and I'm pretty sure that if they remake 1 with the XC2 chapter they'll change the chapter to make it 10 or 15 chapter

[@aggressivelymediocre350]

Ambassador Of Mercy Didn’t XCX had like, 12 or 14 chapters or something, right?

[@fathm4623]

@@aggressivelymediocre350 it had 12, which sounds alright I think, better than 9 or 16 in my head, it's weird I know

[@Baltaczar]

that bizarre split, and also the fact that chapter 9 and 10 could have been the same chapter

[@JoseDorda]

I was thinking about it right now, chapter 8 is pretty much worthless, it doesn't even have a proper boss.

[@etherlyte9856]

Interesting that Definitive Edition's save screen does show the internal chapter.

[@albertomarcuzzi6711]

I actually liked the chapters, the fact that they had names that carry a lot of meaning for that specific story segment was a nice touch. The real problem to me is how some of them are divided (as you say, 9 and 10 shoulded be one chapter), and the amout of filler inside them. Like at the start of chapter 4, when the gormotti boy steals Roc's core and you have to take it back, it felt really pointless as a whole and forced me to revisit gormott right when I was ready to go to Mor Ardain. So in my opinion, for the future, they should keep the named chapters division, but organize them better.

[@albertomarcuzzi6711]

The biggest problem here is Torna, it was 50% pointless glorified side-quests, and this is pretty much the only problem I have with it. It woulded be ok to have a shorter story but without padding, and more side content that I can do when I want

[@XenoMobius]

I think that was my least favorite part of the game. It just felt pointless and oddly placed in the story.

[@wesnohathas1993]

It did really bother me in XC2 that most of the late game sidequests were inaccessible when it would make the most sense to do them. It was especially bad for blade quests because you couldn't control exactly when you gain access to them, and nearly all of them require Pyra in the party.

[@ten2knock]

>Makes a video about how the chapters in Xenoblade 2 lead to pacing issues. >Doesn't talk about how Chapter 4 is 90% filler. Well that's a bit surprising. Anyways, good luck on Xenogears! I recently started playing it myself, and it's pretty dang good.

[@gmaster2647]

It's filler but I also don't mind it since it gives further context and development to Tora's character and actions (with Poppi getting a focus later on with how she seems less robotic). I like him a lot and he might be my favorite Nopon party member, with Riki being a close second and Tatsu being a distant last.

[@shuntarofurukawa5577]

@@gmaster2647 I aggree. It really contributes to the likability of characters

[@supersaiyankrillin1237]

is the thief bit in chapter 4? I hated that.

[@brianyang1151]

Most of Chapter 8 was filler, too.

[@TheHomieLew]

Say what you will about plot relevance, but I think the pacing benefitted from the break for the Nopon arc and its intermittent comic relief

[@xClownpiece]

Do I smell reasonable criticism?

[@Supersteam09]

Butter What does it smell like?

[@Gayd1]

What sick monster cut the the butter like that

[@airi3672]

Man I know almost nothing about xenogears I’m excited

[@Sundel_Marlutte]

You should really play it, it's absolutely fantastic

[@Realag666]

And it really hold up with the visuals. It looks pretty decent even today( For PS1 Standards it aged better than most RPGs on the console) The story structures itself like an anime with several ever more escalating story arcs and it has a huge variety in themes. So what would keep you from playing it, Battle System is fun, but not very deep, encounter rate is pretty high (annoying) and some dungeons (especially the final one) require you to read a guide while you play for you to not pull your hair out.

[@Vin50000]

@@Realag666 really sucks Takahashi's vision always got cut short up until Xcx and Xc2

[@Gameboy-2007-yt]

@@Realag666 Well, I played skyward sword without a guide soooooo, TIME FOR PAIN I'M READY!

[@irtehmrepic]

Rewatching this video in 2020 with DE is kind of ironic, because they did tell you the chapters in the remake, just only on the save files.

[@aarondx3764]

12:50 You can save what are you talking about?

[@sephatu]

Anobody just ignore chapter divisions? Is it even better with chapter size being of equal size? I could agree If it helps the narrative. But otherwise? My gripe was Elpys because it was a slog. Additionally the part in Tantal had wierdly rushed pacing going through a massively unexplored area. I keep questioning myself if it's okay to do sidequests and explore each crevices while the Titan and everyone in it dives to their deaths 😅

[@samt3412]

Especially with the knowledge that you lose the Blade you're most familiar with by far for combat tactics, and not given a remotely good replacement until you get through the worst area in the game.

[@finnvaneekelen4966]

I mean elpys wasent bad it was just hard. Usaly rex has always been your driver combo man with anchor shot and what have you but now that pyra and mythra are gone and you can olny use levels 1s it creates a pretty intresting idea

[@lachesis1541]

@@finnvaneekelen4966 just because its unique and harder than usual doesn't mean its good or not frustrating

[@krimsonkatt]

@@lachesis1541 Just ignore every enemy in the Spirit Crucible and rush to the end. That's at least what I did, and I was overleveled enough that 99% of enemies ignored me too. It's also a lot easier when you have DLC blades like Corvin on Rex IMO. Corvin is just as good as Mythra if not better and has a fun playstylr.

[@gremlinn7]

I think it's better in video games with chapters *not* to have them all of equal length, because equal length leads to some degree of predictability that something climactic is on the way based on how long you've been in the chapter, even if that wouldn't otherwise be indicated in the game events themselves. It's self-spoiling, in a sense. Overall, though, I think it's a pretty minor concern for XC2. I didn't even realize there was a perceived problem with chapter divisions until I watched this video.

[@joshua376]

I really don't think chapters being present or absent makes a difference (maybe it's just me) but I played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, in 1 hr to 2 hr slots I wouldn't exactly do a chapter a day or even care about how many plot twists or story arcs or main focuses or how much land I covered, I understand why Torna didn't have chapters (it's WAY too small), but Xenoblade 1 would be cool with chapters and giving them titles. The section where you chase after the big Telethia, seemed like a side quest (but it made you fall in love with Melia and she learned Mind Blast) if you glued together the section of 'learning Purge' and 'defeating the Telethia', thus dubbing the chapter -Telethia, that section would have a greater meaning and purpose, instead of feeling like a waste of time.

[@eaglejunior]

Speaking of very short chapters... Have you ever played Mother 3?

[@lampsshine3784]

Chapter six

[@Marc-lf4du]

Honestly, as much as I like xeno blade 2, i could probably talk more about stuff I don't like than what I do, do I'm interested in seeing the bits you aren't a huge fan of too.

[@doragon_central]

The pacing in X was amazing. The Best in the series. You can do whatever you Want whenever you want. You can even ignore the main story if you wanted (why would you Want to do that through?)

[@AlfonsoSRT]

People complained about how light the story was, but I alwasys see Xenoblade as a game that's a lot about exploring, so when in X they decided to make it 90% exploring, I was totally fine.

[@tabuukiller13]

“Video games are meant to be played.” Nobody let him play a metal gear solid game that isn’t V

[@nickbullinger141]

You get a gold star for best girl in the thumbnail

[@jesiahhenderson6449]

Wait where was mythra

[@SaltedNeos]

I remember having to take my switch to class when I beat XB2 because the ending was so long that when I beat the final boss a half hour before I left for class, the cutscenes were still running when I had to leave.

[@krimsonkatt]

Xenoblade 2's ending has nothing on Kingdom Hearts 2. At least with Xenoblade 2 you can skip the credits which saves an insane amount of time. In KH2 you can't skip the ending OR the credits and it takes like an hour and a half to get through.

[@andrewvassallo9364]

Can’t wait for the lets’s plays

[@nateweinand4209]

Is an LP or stream of Xenogears possible? Would love to see it! Currently watching your Xenoblade X and Xenoblade 1 playthroughs.

[@MelodiCat753]

If Xenoblade 1 did name its chapters, they probably would have grouped them differently than the 17 chapters of Secret Files.

[@Rauolwolf]

Can't wait Luxin!

[@Alovon]

Most books that I've read (and even popular ones) usually have their chapters being a bit lop-sided at points in regards to length and content tbh. Its just that Xenoblade 1 and 2 as they are games vs books, end up feeling a bit worse for wear due to that lop-sided ness because of them being games.

[@samt3412]

Chapter 11 of XC1 should be split up once you get into Galahad Fortress. Having the death of the dude who's been the main villain for everything in the game right up until the end of Valak Mountain being a midboss makes no sense.

[@leahtheanimationfan40]

I think it's strange how short chapter 15 and 16 are. They should've been combined into one chapter

[@Chronoflation]

I had a dream last night that I started replaying X....that was a really good dream. I'm on a study abroad and couldn't bring my Wii U with me, so I've been missing X bad these past few months. Speaking of chapters, how do you feel about The Last Story and its chapter implementation? I remember really liking it and thought it fit really well as the game felt like a story book tale. Would you ever consider doing a video on Xenoblade 1's other operation rainfall companions? The Last Story and Pandora's Tower aren't the best games ever, but they're so interesting in concept, gameplay, and lore, I feel like they might make for nice occasional one off videos

[@chrishunter9185]

Something that really bothered me was the fact that you could still do side quests and stuff during Tantal's life or death crisis. I mean this entire country is on the verge of falling into the cloud sea, but I'm still able to go and Rick around in Mor Ardain or Gromott via fast travel. They should have cut off access to fast travel at that point because not doing so completely destroys any tension that whole arc (mini-arc?) generated. Plus it just feels immersion-breaking and overall just makes you care less about Tantal and it's plight. I don't speak for everyone when I say this, but that's how I felt.

[@agromchung]

I actually really hate when games railroad you into story missions for immersion purposes and really appreciated the ability to play the game how I wanted to play it whenever I wanted to.

[@krimsonkatt]

That would be good for story but TERRIBLE for gameplay. Made even worse when you lose Pyra immediately after which makes Rex nearly worthless unless you put the DLC blades on him, which railroads you to the plot for the rest of the game since the plot never slows down past that point.

[@londondeer]

Trying to decide if Xenoblade 3 keeps this problem going, I didn't really feel like the chapter splits were really warranted and it just felt weird - even with each chapter being very long

[@princeofhyrule2205]

These discussion videos are good to just listen to. Just so u know, if u mis say something, I don't see the corrections on the screen often since I'm nusg listening to the vid. Just a heads up

[@samuraitrooper34]

I see you have used the best girl for the thumbnail

[@pmrobin8]

11:13 that’s what I did. After spending a few months playing through the game whenever I had a chance to between school work and playing other games my spring break happened and I planned to spend that week beating the game but I beat it on the first weekend. Fantastic game though.

[@yann_ma]

I never noticed any of that...

[@lightmaker5648]

You find any Finch plushie's yet?

[@UnethicalVoxel]

Do you always use Massive Melee Mythra in cutscenes do you don’t get demonitized?

[@ethanator6015]

UnethicalVoxel If he wanted to avoid demonetization, he’d have Pyra wear her Gormotti disguise, given that she’s just as revealing.

[@princeofhyrule2205]

Not going to lie, I really liked the chapter system as well as the massive amount of cutscenes. They provide meaning to the settings and the world as well as the characters. I've been hearing so many people wish for shorter cutscenes and a smaller world on the whole. It really scares me because it is for those reasons I really enjoy Xenoblade games.

[@dugtrioramen]

Yeah this is why I much preferred the beginning of xc2 than the end. It was always exciting to unlock a fresh new area, new giant town, new missions and expect some nice story segments and cutscenes at the beginning and end. By the last four chapters of the game, it turned into linear dungeons, cutscene after cutscene, and no new side content. The beginning made me think this game would just keep getting bigger and I loved it. But when the final 4 chapters came in, the game just slipped by and I was a little disappointed.

[@lukestarford7608]

(Haven’t play XCX) xenoblade game always had a chapter or a pacing and problem. Both xenoblade 1 and 2 had this. Xenoblade 1 had this straight as Fiora join back or little bit later as the plot was kinda kept to a stand still(weakest part of story) until Zanza came along and fix it. Xenoblade 2 also has it weak part in middle of it story where chapter 4 is basically filler where you could certain things like titian and plot would remain the same however it did help us understand tora, poppy and mythra so the fact that it was a filler chapter was kinda a good idea due to the ending of last chapter and new main characters ‘mythra’ who know nothing about and but is later going to be important to story so by having a filler chapter to get to know her a little bit more and tora helps us. Thinking about it. The rest of chapters was kinda good with it pacing. ( little bit unsure with chapter 8 and 9 though.)

[@667GameFreak]

Goodness, I thought I thought I was the only one who had these opinions about XC2, with dividing into chapters not being all thar good and the tension of the late game story doesn't help to convince on doing side content.

[@Speach89]

Chapters in books aren't equal lengths

[@Baltaczar]

In fact XC2 is my least favourite Xenoblade, I dont think its a bad game, but not as good as the other 2, definitely the most addictive

[@fathm4623]

Personally, I think that Chapter 8 should have been the super short one, not Chapter 8 Finish Chapter 8 when Jin leaves the party, and have all of Chapter 9 be devoted to Yggdrasil

[@jerenjagodzinski9651]

Yggdrasil?

[@fathm4623]

@@jerenjagodzinski9651 Norse name for The World Tree, and the official title of the World Tree theme

[@jerenjagodzinski9651]

@@fathm4623 ah thanks

[@zaos7321]

The fact that chapter 16/17 are the same in definitive is kinda stupid

[@Hmorte14]

Yass luxin

[@EduardoTorelly]

chater 9 should have ended with amalthus trying to self destruct to destry the tree and the team containing the explosion with a barrier with jin. Jin would have died in the explosion with a smile in his face and the rest of the party would have been left uncoucious, the artificial blades would appear and try to kill them but the team got saved by te merc group or the ardanian army or even both so they are brought back to uraya to heal. that way there would be a way to do the sidequests in the rest of the world without looking so weird. Also, there should be a fight agains an artifice at some point of the game to make them see like a threat becaus the ones in the final chapter doesnt seem like that much of a threat making malos'es army look less powerfull than it should

[@justice8718]

Dude, Malos's army was killing several titans at once.

[@thenightowls2804]

I didnt notice most of these since I beat chapters 4-10 in less than two weeks (actually around 8-9 days) cuz I'm a no life

[@ArveEriksson]

I agree with the observation that the late-game chapters have odd pacing. I let the game get away with it, though, because the game starts to feel too much like Xenosaga at that time to complain! Very Cathedral Ship. Much creep. (Any complaints I have with XCX's pacing is mainly about how time consuming even normal fights are, but the amount of grinding I had to do for either the final boss or the post-game nonsense was just soul-numbing...)

[@ram5487]

To preface, i love this game more than any other. Also long comment warning. Ok, now that that's over, the main problem I have with the last few chapters (8 9 and 10) is the bosses. first of all, the big guldo. This is one of the most annoying bosses in the game for me, firstly because of the overall difficulty of this part and boss. the boss is a big wake up call for those who dont know how to kill stuff quick with orbs, and killed me a good 50 times. this annoys me because in the story it has no right to have that power, being just some big guy meant to be smashed with the party as usual. Secondly, it has no place in the story at all. To be fair, there isn't really tons of stuff that could be put here instead of big boy, but nothing really happens after it dies. There is the scene where Rex finds that maybe it used to be a person, but they just move on and don't think about it again. At least Morytha is a great location story wise. The second boss i have trouble with is Amalthus. I like the character and all, and i can see why his fight was implemented in the way it was, but is this the best they could do? When you think of Amalthus, the one who manipulated everyone you know and is the reason you have to fight Malos in the first place, the one who steals your blades to do his bidding, do you think of some big tentacle muscle guy? yes it's meant to be because of his destructive nature and all but he had a clear theme with his character, and his boss fight has nothing to do with it. Finally, Malos. All this build up to finally take down the big bad, the end bringer, the one who can rival the player, and its just a big robot. You have no connection to Aion like you do with Malos, so it doesn't feel like you're fighting him at all. The biggest sin of this boss is it's difficulty, and I know after saying that all the 'if you're going to complain about the difficulty just handicap yourself' comments are going to come in. But seriously, this boss doesn't hinder your strategy in any way at all. In the fight with Malos and Akhos you're constantly getting stunned and bashed around and shown that you aren't the strongest, and the fight with Malos and Jin has Malos' cyclones and shields and Jins blowdowns and launches making orb spamming near impossible (The Pneuma section isn't meant to be hard, so that doesnt count). but in this fight there are approximately two attacks that hinder you in any way, being the ice one and siren buster. The ice one negates healing, which is pretty well designed and no explored enough, , but it doesn't do much damage. Siren buster can kill a party member instantly sometimes and can blowdown, but it isnt frequent enough for it to be very damaging. He also has another attack apparently, but i've never seen it because he's dead before half health because of chain attacks and how he doesnt stop them at all either. I feel like if he was replaced with ophions stats and attacks, but obviously tweaked so it would be possible, he would fit a lot better. Also, mabye every minute and a half he would destroy all the orbs on him to stop chain attacks. My fingers hurt

[@lurkingC]

Ram- I agree with everything you said! Especially about Malos at the end. Fighting the giant robot didn’t feel that satisfying as it would have been to face Malos himself. I think if they made the giant bot into a “part 1” of the fight and then you have one final showdown with Malos, it would have been a lot more climactic.

[@Zoroark_Master]

So to sums up XC2 being separated in 10 chapters give the impression that each will have around the same amount of gameplay. But that’s not the case with the later chapters being shorter.

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

I just don't like chapters. They're nice for a spoiler-free way of saying where you are in a game, but some stories just don't divide up that neatly. Also, I liked how when I played , I got a nice chunk of game thrown at me after beating what I mostly expected to be the final boss. In XC2, I knew when I was heading toward the end. The length of a story being a small mystery feels good, and chapters suck the magic out of it when they're put in weirdly round numbers for the sake of having ten chapters.

[@quartzquantum7530]

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a lot of flaws in it. Thanks for covering this.

[@Empty_Moment]

Mehmeh, always interesting to hear Lux-Lux rant...but LB has question...WHERE IS NOPON ORIGIN VIDEO? Lux-Lux want to get Nopon-whooped meh? Make video meh!

[@wawztzta8296]

honestly i really want you to play xenosaga so i don’t have to

[@Ty-yy7zr]

I thought XC1 was 14 chapters, not including the post game story.

[@MegamanX174]

That moment when the remake does follow the chapter system. Rip

[@empanada65]

Now I feel like an idiot for liking the way the chapters were done. Am I just too stupid to know?

[@Sundel_Marlutte]

Have fun with Xenogears, it's one of the best Xeno games

[@SacrificAbominat]

Yeah XC2's chapters really mess with the pacing. My problem is that it splits the game up even more, as each titan is essentially it's own story arc, and it makes the earlier chapters feel more disjointed with the later chapters feeling rushed. I'll be honest it's not just the pacing that bothers me with the story of the base game of XC2. Personally I think the Xeno franchise is known for it's character development and especially it's well developed villains. XC2 does an amazing job with the main cast of characters, but the villains are lacking. Jin is the most developed out of the 3 main ones, but without Torna his backstory is confusing. Malos is kind of generic chaotic evil which can work, but without Jin balancing him out as the brains of Torna he'd be pretty dull. My biggest problem is with Amalthus. He's got major plot significance, but the game tells me how evil he is and doesn't show me much. He doesn't seem that bad up until the game tells me "Oh wait he's actually the evil mastermind" Which happens in chapter 8. It's quite the heel turn, and if there was actually some foreshadowing to that moment on the level of what XC1 had with Zanza Amalthus could have been much better as a villain. I also can't help but feel disappointed in how pretty pointless the other members of Torna are. Yeah you fight them, but they feel like the minions of the Ganglion you fight in XCX. They're very shallow character wise and their gone after only a little bit of screen time. Oh and what was with the whole setup with no payoff with the conflict between Uraya and Mor Ardain. Amalthus just swoops in and stops that from happening. I know Nial sacrifices himself to save the queen of Uraya, but that whole plot point should have gone somewhere instead of being discarded halfway through the game. Honestly it would have been more interesting to have to deal with a war going on between two sides you sympathize with than fisticuffs between the Tornan ship and Indol. XC1's war between the people of Bionis and the Egil's mechon was a great great background plot point and I wish XC2 did something like this with the conflict between Uraya and Mor Ardain.

[@alejandrobo12]

The game is divided in chapters becasue each chapter is written by different people. This improves the game a lot. But of course, you have to shit xenoblade 2 because gives you likes and views.

[@denimchicken104]

I don’t understand how so many people harbor this belief that so many of these anime game’s sins are “a product of the genre”. If pacing gets bad, or dialogue feels redundant or cringey, or the gameplay feels like a glorified spreadsheet… then they need to up their game and put more thought and care into it. These games are far from perfect.

[@lpfan4491]

Yeah, idk either. People be like "why do you consider it a flaw? It is just a normal thing." While it being a normal thing is bad because it is a flaw. The reason why media builds ontop each other to begin with is because diffrent creatives may be able to fix someone else's problems so a new generation of media may not have it anymore, but that idea got lost to time clearly.

[@lightbrand_]

I really don’t get the point of breaking down the cut chapter structure of Xenoblade 1, like after you’ve made your point about Xenoblade 2 it makes sense to end the video, why go over something that the developers themselves realized was a bad idea and didn’t implement into the game? Also xenoblade 1 is a 60 hour game at best, not 100, 100 hours is what it takes to do almost all of the side content which most people will definitely NOT do

[@CloisteredExplorer]

Considering Xenogears is my favorite game of all time you have NO idea how excited I am for.

[@samuelline9573]

My issue with the chapter splits is that they were 1) arbitrary 2) emerson breaking 3) I honestly forgot they were a thing for the first 8 chapters becuase they're just so unimportant. 4) there is no way to know what chapter you're on until you get to the title card 5) the black title card they have to end each chapter is horrible and just feels too basic.

[@jonahkluger6136]

Gotta say, I am not a fan of chapters in games.

[@quartzquantum7530]

You never get to use the third sword in the game. That is a huge rip-off to me in my honest opinion.

[@HollowPurple-if2co]

Have you played the game?

[@Xenosaga]

What? Yes you do lol