The Dark Side of the Apex Tier

[@RoulicisThe]

It reminds me of "progression", when you had to climb up all the dinosaur tree to reach apex. The only players who could reach apex at the time were those talented enough to stay alive up to the point where they reached them, and it was quite a feat, especially for carnivore players : After the first failed attempt at adding AI, surviving as a carnivore meant catching and killing other players to survive. Thus when you met a Rex, you knew straight away he was very good at PvP, since he had survived long enough to pick the rex, and was good enough to keep it alive until encountering you. Now you can grow a full apex by staying afk in a bush 80% of the time, only coming out to drink and eat. It's even become easier for carnivores than for herbivores, since herbivores have to move out to search for food as they grow, but carnivores can just wait for their "free meal delivery" (since AI spawns automatically close to them when hunger bar gets too low). Even amongst apexes the balance is completely fucked up

[@someguywithawi-ficonnectio931]

I really hope they bring back progression, i didnt play the game back when progression was a thing (didnt own a pc) but it seemed really fun climbing your way up the food chain trying out different dinosaurs

[@thunderclanwarrior1253]

@@someguywithawi-ficonnectio931 It was a lot of fun. My favourite time to play was a specific map I can't remember the name of. It's best described as a very mountainous map with tons of ledges and narrow paths. There was a huge marshy section, some plains-like areas, as well as some forests and lakes between. There was one really big waterfall that was a pretty popular place. I remember progressing as a carnivore was super difficult but you could progress as a herbivore relatively easily if you knew where to find the progression flowers (dasies) and stayed alive long enough. My fondest memories are on this map and I believe it's the one I played the most on. Obviously, you could get nested, which actually made the system viable because you could skip hours of progression to get to a more powerful dino. Seeing a Rex back then was rare and you had to respect and fear them, exactly like OP says. Thinking back on it, I really like the system because it simulates the food chain better. It would need some work to be exactly like this, but in real life for every thousand mice in an area you will only find one hawk (a generalization btu you get the point). That's the problem I can forsee in The Isle's future, is too many big dinosaurs and not enough little ones. Large animals need huge territories to sustain them and small creatures are hard to catch and numerous. Everything is balanced this way. But in The Isle you have 50/100 players as Rexes and that ruins the immersion (if that's important to you). Personally, I hope that the game will have mod support and someone dedicated enough makes a good progression mod. I think a good system would be surviving to elder X amount of times as this species, the number of lives needing to be lived getting progressively lesser the higher you are on the food chain. For example a hypsi would need to live five lives, a dryo four, gali three and so on. Perhaps for at least one life in each tier, you have to successfully nest a player to adulthood. To make it fair, if you die, you don't need to start at the bottom unless you die again. So for example you make it to galli and you die, you would be back to 3/4 dryo lives. If you died again as dryo it would be 2/4 and so on. I can't speak for everyone but I think a system like this is just enough challenging, rewarding, and punishing enough. There would be multiple dinos on each tier so you aren't forced to play ones you don't like. Idk it could use a lot of thought but there are lots of ways to balance a game like The Isle, this is just one I thought of.

[@youtubealt243]

I think their worst problem is their speed. Rex is too fast and giga/spoon are too endurable and slightly too fast. A rex shouldn’t be able to outrun (default speed) stuff that can barely fight back like sucho and Diablo. Plus for evrima their Alt turn/bite should be VERY slow

[@cowboylikedinos]

Giga was actually kinda fast(didnt had such a good bite or weight tho), spino and rex? Fuck em

[@lc2131]

Rex should be able to outrun them but only in ambush stance. They were thought to be ambush hunters so that fits but their default sprint is too high for sure.

[@nojorooney]

Rex has an excuse because of having low stam so you pretty much have to ambush prey similar to a tiger or leopard, if you see a rex coming as long as you are good on stamina you should be able to run away for the most part, but yeah giga is too fast since it’s a stamina based animal and their power needs to be nerfed

[@Nikki-Femboy]

@@nojorooney also gigas trot speed is just tooo fast, it’s like a slow run not a fast walk

[@user-fk9ir1jv1v]

If a giga really wanted to kill you, then you were going to die because it would just trot you down across the entire map

[@Evrimomono]

The ongoing Diabloceratops demonic theme is one of my fav things about you xD

[@karenboy1005]

The biggest problem with Apex tier dinos imo is that they can simply sit in a bush and grow for free, reaching insane levels of strength essentially with no effort. Evrima seems to be fixing this problem, by forcing people to go out into the world and find the necessary diet types they need in order to grow quickly, otherwise they can spend even dozens of hours growing, making it necessary for someone to be quite good at avoiding danger in order to hit adult stage, rather than being able to just grow for free in a bush.

[@recarms_VII]

You are right, I hope evrima will solve that problem. By reducing their stats and making their growing process much more complex/skillfull with the diet system. We need to promote an ecosystem with all dinosaurs are equaly interesting and balanced for their grow time, small or big to avoid the spam of a meta dino/tier.

[@gumball6445]

Preach

[@HelloHello-wn4gd]

I agree that you are right in the need for rexes to be balanced but realistically speaking, this is what it would be like. The strong bite and the ambush strata are what made the tyrannosaurus so successful in the first place.

[@HelloHello-wn4gd]

I mean with a bite force that high nothing would come out of a fight with a Rex without some scars. A bite could turn bone to literally dust. So it would realistically 1 shot most things.

[@paparabi2245]

I think the larger ones shouldn’t have too hefty of a growth time but also require larger amounts of food when getting closer to their full size. An adult Rex should have a hard time staying alive just because of starvation.

[@paparabi2245]

Or a Rex at Carno size shouldn’t be as nimble as a Carno, but offers good speed and a strong bite. They are able to hold their own in the lower weight classes, but once they get large enough they don’t bother with the ones too small because they don’t offer enough food and they’ll be easily detected by the little ones

[@karenboy1005]

Even though none of the Legacy apexes are in Evrima yet we still see the same problem there as we see in Legacy, that of the biggest dinosaurs always being the most popular. Carno, Stego and Deino are the most commonly seen dinosaurs in the game and pretty much everyone would consider them overpopulated, especially the Carnos. People's preferences are shallow af so they'll always wanna be the biggest, or the fastest or the strongest thing in the game, so even if Rex, Giga or Spino aren't in the game, the second biggest dinosaur after them is gonna see the same treatment.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

me who likes raptors: ;-;

[@dragon_platypus]

I just wanna chill with my crocodile buddies in the water and eat fish. Besides... the biggest enemy of the Deino is the Deino.

[@buckshots2dabrain859]

@YaBoiiUnclePhil that would be rough but it seems like good solution

[@Justmonika6969]

​@YaBoiiUnclePhil I suggested this long, long ago. It's a tough pill for the community to swallow but it fixes the apex problem. Making apexes actually apexes would fix so many of the problems in this game.

[@sorenpachuau3244]

Me, a mid tier lover : 😶‍🌫️

[@Gmh-]

8:14 let's be honest zag , There is no such thing as a Skillful Isle player

[@eriops4959]

sadly..

[@liggadiggasiggajr8560]

True lmfao

[@brandonforrester7342]

Wrong.

[@Gmh-]

@@brandonforrester7342 right

[@duckiidex]

Ive seen a herra kill a giga i beg to differ..

[@TheGunslinger44]

A few ways to nerf Apexes: -Make it so they're the only Dinosaurs that can't regain stamina while walking -Reduce health and cap it to 6,000 -Increase growth time by about more hour for each carnivore -Make it so some Apexes have much smaller herds or even make it rewarding to kill other apexes (some Dinosaurs were known to cannibalize) -Reduce bite damage to about 1,500 -Depends on species, but reduce ambush speeds and ambush durations, to really reward tactically hiding and being sneaky -Reduce turning radius to reward players for escaping and out maneuvering Apexes You could scrap all of this and make combat more focused on position and timing rather than rushing down players, but that all depends.

[@PomerBash]

An interesting analysis to say the least being well thought out and well researched to an immense degree and I do agree with much of the statements made, however I feel this problem only exists within the confines of the legacy build of the game which as a whole functions differently from the future of the game being created in the EVRIMA build. That being said it is worth noting that the apex tier has as of the time of this video not even been considered for the game directly and at most we've seen the more general issues being addressed (such as the attempts to avoid inflated stats) with the most direct mention of apex's being from Punch mentioning that internally the dev team has considered roads to balancing apex tier animals via the diet system by putting them in a position where they must maintain an almost perfect diet to grow to full power incentivizing apex players to be active and efficient and becoming skilled enough to locate catch and kill their desired prey or simply locate and defend their preferred plant meaning that unless the player is by far the best at their chosen animal they cannot succeed. As said however apex's have yet to re appear in EVRIMA and thus most complications regarding them remain limited to legacy, however I do hope they acknowledge many of the issues regarding apex tier and given their attitude towards questions about them mentioning they realize just how broken a apex can become I do have high hopes, but we must wait and see.

[@XZaguer]

I agree. However i think this kind of video was necessary to express the current issues the apex tier has, so in the future said mistakes wont be remade in Evrima

[@PomerBash]

@@XZaguer yeah, I agree with you there.

[@blueraptor1013]

It certainly got far worse when they added weight scaling. Back in the day apexes were hard to kill, but now it just feels impossible and is definitely hurting the game.

[@azbebnaith2327]

In my opinion it Is exactly the opposite. Right now a skillful Utah player can kill every apexes without using bleed. If u put in a 1v1 the most skillfull Utah and the best Rex of the Isle my money would be on the Utah, and i'm not considering bleed, It can kill It in 1 ride. I suck at fighting, really, but i've been able to kill Rex player WITH a JUVIE Cerato and should not be possible... So saying they are impossible to take down Is the opposite of the true. In my opinion they should be impossible to take down by a a single low or mid tier player, and only a very skillfull pack should be a threat. Also the broken hit box Is just a compesation mechanism for the absence of trumple damage.

[@Yanivosaurus]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING!

[@Yanivosaurus]

@@azbebnaith2327 Not really, it’s just a bug with such a big creature for broken hitboxes, but I still think it’s unfair for an Utah to take 180 hits to kill it. I think they should remove the weight system but add like a week tail whip like Primal Carnage Extinction or Path Of Titans. It could deal like of 1, 2 or 5% its max hp and if Rex has 6000 hp, it could kill Utah in 9, 5 or 2 hits, but again that’s too slow for bigger creatures so I say they scrap the weight system and make Utah have 500 hp and trex have 3000, then it would kill Utah in 5 hits if they make it do 120 damage. This is more fair than an extreme stat differences between weights.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

While it is true in nature might makes right and even slight differences in size make a big impact in the conflicts of real animals, the game's systems aren't balanced and make for very unfun gameplay, especially since players don't act like real animals. Even putting Apexes aside, I feel the difference between Ceratosaurus and Allosaurus is one of the best examples. Even being smaller a Ceratosaurus should make an Allosaurus hesitate attacking it but because in the game's coding they are in different size classes so Ceratosaurus gets a damage penalty despite already being weaker and Allosaurus gets a damage multiplier despite already being stronger so as a result Allos can bully Ceratos with impunity when it shouldn't be so one-sided.

[@RosieRoan]

If Tier 4 dinosaurs in the game have around 4900 HP, I think that Tier 5 (APEX) dinosaurs should have 6000 HP, nothing more. Apexes are basically untouchable in The Isle: Legacy. I also think that the combat aspects need to be revised as well. Hopefully, the developers will fix and consider these issues down the line in EVRIMA.

[@billythefatcommunistdog3019]

we need the devs to see these vids, also from what i can see the editing is better, keep up the good work!!!

[@bigmoe9856]

As some friends of mine and I would say on the forums: It takes twice as long to grow an Apex (compared to your average mid tier) but they are four times as powerful. The six hours is completely worth the end result even if you have to retry. Which is why we agreed that all apexi should've had a minimum of 12 hour growths. We left the juvie and sub stage alone, but fresh adult to full adult should be 6 hours instead of 1. In this way, the apexi players would have a playable dino upon becoming a fresh adult *but* had to maintain a lvl of respect towards mid and small tier playables that could take advantage of their lower stats. What becomes rare and thus the signs of an experienced player is 1.0 Rex/Giga/Trike. This is only a start as there are more things to get into in order to balance Apexi. Not going to go into the left side hitbox-a bug is a bug and we get that it must be fix-but quite obviously is that bone break needs to be reworked into fractures that obey locational dmg (which they're working on...but it needs more work) and the same goes for massive bleed. Another thing that made Apexi way to easy is the food delivery services, AI spawning at our feet whenever we're hungry is ridiculous but even worse is that adult Gigas and Rexes could sustain themselves off of them if patient. As for Giga's trot? In the event we get a larger map, all playables should have an improved trot speed. But sense we're getting a smaller map, I can't exactly follow that line of thinking. Trike also needed it lethality back to counter Rex.

[@blueraptor1013]

Good point about the AI you can grow an apex without killing a single player (it can obviously be done by non apexes too). Its one of the things ive hated most about the game for a long time. I think Beasts Of Bermudas food spawning system is actually less atrocious than the isles AI. Before survival you had to kill players as a carnivore to survive but now i just feel like im playing a herbivore with sharp teeth.

[@XZaguer]

Very good points, I think those would greatly help with this situation for the most part, specially the AI part which I forgot to address

[@urmominc904]

Having a 12 hour growth for apexes would kill any and all interest in playing them, especially for casuals. The six hours was already a monster; now that we’ll have to move around and not AFK grow, it’s going to be even more difficult to maintain one, as everything will still want to kill you before you reach big boy stage. I’d personally be fine with a two hour addition at most, but anything beyond that isn’t worth it.

[@bigmoe9856]

@@urmominc904 *shrug* agree to disagree. Back in Legacy, apex players became active upon becoming fresh adults-so the 12 hr changes nothing besides increasing the rarity 1.0 adults. If you could get past the juvie and sub stage before, you could do it now. Except for casual discouragement, that's the point. I don't want an entire server filled with adult rexes. A 2 hour extra still demands a lot of nerfs, because the difference in stats makes it completely worth it. So 12 hrs for the animal that is 4x stronger, so that it grows 4x longer.

[@blueraptor1013]

@@urmominc904 Good, it would thin the numbers and stop them from killing the game.

[@voidicat]

we all know dibble is the true apex

[@Whoracle_Nora]

Im playing in a heavy rule server but still it's not the fact apexes are around but the amount you are facing. I often asked for a medium only server with only few injection of male only apexes. this would make the encounters to be special instead just a common unbalanced situation all the time.

[@intoxiouss]

I do get what you're saying and I agree with most of it, but the concept of balancing apexs to be closer with the other cast of dinosaurs, it's bizarre to say the least, especially when you consider the goals of the Isle, it's meant to be a more realistic dinosaur game, or atleast that's what it set out to do, and making the top tier full grown apex more killable to lower tiers it defeats the entire goal of the game, I agree with making the growing of an apex more hard and skill based, but nerfing the apex itself makes no sense when it comes to the goals of the game, the power gap between tiers is intentional, because that's how it is in the real word, you don't see healthy elephants dying to a Genet, and even though this creates an unpleasant game for some, it's just how it is, and in my opinon I think the isle could even do better in this regard, because Rex's being capable of chasing down small prey is ridiculous as they wouldn't be that fast, most apexes wouldn't, Giga being a slight exception, and semi aquatic creatures not being capable of diving in the water or swimming atleast decently fast is also weird, overall if the isle leaned more into full realism instead of being between overly balanced and realistic, it'd be a great game in my eyes. (It'd also be nice if they cracked down on community servers that let you skip growth, bc it breaks the entire ecosystem.)

[@spixy977]

I’d love to see a video discussing game mechanics and PvP (tail riding) perhaps providing your thoughts on such mechanics. Maybe you could share your thoughts on how PvP should be done.

[@CarnageTrooperx]

This is was pretty good. And this is coming from someone who wants to ensure apexes keep their crown because for me, the realistic consequences of a 40ft 15,000Ibs murder machine with the strongest bite force for land animals would be instant death. However this is game and making the player work for those powers is definitely a good idea, especially during the growth time. Let only the Strong rule! Also when you gonna do protoceratops analysis?

[@XZaguer]

Indeed good sir, I will 🙂

[@cowboylikedinos]

The thing is, that on legacy it was so messed up because the damage was based based on weight. If you do 100 damage and you weight 1,000 you will do 10 damage to an apex with 10,000. And if that apex makes 100 damage too, it will make 1000 to you because of the weight plus the apex had also more health so its a big win

[@bazamere]

It wouldnt be so bad for apexes to be able to one or two shot smaller tier dinos if the smaller tier dinos were given speed (or at least acceleration and maneuverability) bonuses. That would give apexes the opportunity to kill smaller dinos if they can ambush them, and give smaller dinos a way of escaping if they are paying attention.

[@blueraptor1013]

The weight damage scaling is one of the main things screwing this game over.

[@ronniesmith3255]

This is the stuff I want that need to be changed A the hitbox of all apex and rex bone break needs to go B the speed of the rex makes it impossible for certain dinos like sucho and giga to get away

[@broski9938]

I absolutely loved playing dilo and killing rexes. It was an insane challenge and I practiced in deathmatch servers for hours(which is sad to admit). The challenge was so fun and being a nightvision-wielding bleed monster was the best, especially when even apexes were scared of us. But yeah, whilst it was fun, it took me about 200 hours to get good enough to actually fight rexes, and I played pretty much nothing but dilo. At least now I have insane ass riding skillz to put to use whenever dilo is released in evrima! Or in any other dino games lol

[@jaykay9836]

Around the 8 min mark, the clips of your dibble dying, those are from the vid where you fought two rexes, and died on the second one correct? Which is to say, you fought two apexes.. :)

[@XZaguer]

you would be correct, thank you for noting that :)

[@ZEE-ZIBUKA]

Informative. You can make a separate video about hit boxes in this game, I think it will be funny. =)

[@aeyelashbug6311]

I don't dislike apexes because I always either play as Galli (immortal) or just hide constantly which means I usually die from falling down cliffs

[@blemished_1]

I didn't know you had a yt channel! Thank god youtube recommended this xD Very nice watch

[@XZaguer]

Thank you Blemished :) good to see you here

[@lhamaseveramenteirritada9760]

0:18 Amaizing hitboxes

[@Gmh-]

Interesting title.

[@cowboylikedinos]

They will be fixed on evrima as we can see a utah pack can take on a stego is basically an apex cuz it has 6tons and 1.2k damage which is also the most damage in game

[@eonpats01]

I love this video format! It's very nice, and I can't wait to see more content. Keep up the good work m8!

[@searpen1848]

Bruh seeing 23 rex(in a single day and no they are individual rexes that I count *individually* ) in a server that has around 70 players may sound small but when the map is as small as thenyaw... *Pain*

[@ThatPelican]

Where's Spino though?

[@DaiN9636]

Well it's a bit controversial and it all comes down to how the player sees the game... what made me love the isle more than PoT and BoB is that it's more of a simulator than "arcade game" ... it's supposed to be realistic and yes if you're a small dino and see a rex you should be forced to run instead of being encouraged to fight it... and even if you are able to fight it (like for example how sticky utah beats rexes with a utah) it should be 1000000% skill and not some crazy mechanics to keep it balanced...

[@TheYuty15]

3:24 ah yes. CARNOSAURUS

[@Knicks518]

The music at the end is great

[@drogon724]

As I understand it'd be nice to have more combat than run and click simulator for apexes, but.. it doesn't really matter on what the devs do. No matter what, the vast majority of the game's population is always gonna be an apex/semi apex dino. Whether herbivore or carnivore, it's just how it is to have dino fans who barely know anything about dinos, and their want to be "big and bad" so it's just something with the gaming community itself. Cause as I said, even if the devs did do all they could, most or us can still bet mfs will still at least TRY to grow apexes. As for toxicity- as someone whose moderated for various isle servers, apexes are fairly known to rb cause haha power go brrrr- but it's anywhere and everywhere. If anything, Utahs and dilos are usually the main rbers and toxic ones as even if they die, they'll be back in another 2 hrs or so. And, with their bleed and moderate damage (especially dilo), its essentially the bane of any apexes career.

[@agustindemare8301]

what about spino??'

[@WooleyMoley]

Nice video. Quick question weren't you spamming in the chat of the premiere of techno?

[@XZaguer]

who?

[@Songohanbestio]

what about spino

[@biosyn-ab4261]

Imo whoever uses their real money to grow an apex should get their stats nerfed. That's pay to win and is the reason why you see so many shants, theris and trikes all sitting at great falls

[@cowboylikedinos]

Theri isnt apex and youre paying so its fair

[@cowboylikedinos]

Maybe they shouldnt sell growths at all

[@biosyn-ab4261]

@@cowboylikedinos Theri is at least a semi apex. I mean, you totally say dilo is also an apex at night time

[@bazamere]

I can understand if servers need funds to keep running then they shoukd be able to sell services. But there should be some balance to it. Like growing an apex costs more in server funds (and thus more in rl funds) than lower tier dinos. But if you make the apexs demanding to maintain even when they are full adult.... that is where it would take a skillful player to keep a full adult apex alive even if they get a free grow

[@CatsAreKindaCool]

For those money for growth/sandbox Dino’s they should make it so you can only speed up the growth on mid tiers and low tiers and not apexes.

[@gravestone7470]

you forgot the allo, spino, alberto,sucho ,cama , austro , pue

[@trabistheidio1095]

Health and attack aren't the problem, T.rexes could weigh up to 10.5t, Trikes up to 11.3t, and Shants over 16t. It's the way the weight values affect the game, as well as the speed, agility and omnipresence of apexes that makes them so hard to deal with. If the weight WAS the health, and not its own seperate value, the legacy roster would be much more balanced.

[@Supersaurus4]

My biggest problem with apexes was the fact that I could never keep them fed well enough. I can hardly find any food to eat, and plus i mostly always get killed by some thrill seeking Utahs looking to kill Apexes.

[@bazamere]

I think thats the whole point to apexs though... they SHOULD be very very hard to grow and maintain. They are the expert level dinos. Especially the carnivorous ones. Ive grown a few trikes to full size but I dont need to kill other players dinos to do that. To grow a Trex to full size you most likely have to kill other players dinos to do that. So making that skill based would be benificial to all the players you need to kill in order to grow a Trex.

[@cowboylikedinos]

As you should

[@Hamsamuel83]

I think a way to make apexes less busted would be to make it so they had slooow alt bites to make it able to be dodged and have a really noticeable sound that never changes But also make it so it takes essentially no stam so you can’t just be a solo Utah and make a Rex use all its stam n kill it also just no alt turn that’s it

[@hedgehogplays_4086]

i would love to see you cover the new Protoceratops concept art that was just relased. Looks awesome!

[@HammboneBob]

Counterpoint: mix packers/ KOS hobos

[@mattiaerroi4286]

Where are Alberto and spino

[@Absitiam]

This video was just 🖐😩👌

[@Kokogata]

Aaaaah yes apexes I'm not very fond of them. I'm actually glad the devs decided to not add them straight in evrima and want to finish the other dinos and creatures in general first. Everyone complaining about why arent rex and spino in-game yet just because they like those dinos which, is not something bad but if they add rex and spino now the game will be completely unbalanced like legacy and everyone will only play those dinos. I'm a para and maia main and unfortunately, I can't switch back to legacy for some reason and I miss playing as them

[@Justsayit1-Z8]

The isle should have bone break similar to path of titans where it’s a charged bite since it will be avoidable and won’t be a unfair chance

[@scottthesmartape9151]

X Vaguer more like Darth Vader

[@Riptuh]

Although apexes will be buffed in evrima, it will be much harder to grow and survive as them thank god

[@cryppi1510]

I agree completely! I have never played apex predator class, often because the growth time is intimidating for me. I hope EVRIMA's diet system makes it much harder for apexes like Deinosuchus to reach the top! I had a friend instantly lose their adult carno by being dragged underwater and bit to death. The game is no fun when death is inevitable, every fight should allow you to get a second chance. (Unless you're a baby and fighting an adult or something, but babies should be equipped to run away and thankfully they are in evrima)

[@userequaltoNull]

I disagree, but only on the deinosuchus front. Crocodile ambushes in the real world are extremely fatal to any prey, even "top-tier" "tanks" like Cape Buffalo. Something like a cheetah (the equivalent of a carnotaurus in that environment) doesn't stand the slightest chance against even a mid-sized Nile crocodile. That, combined with the fact that Deinosuchus are confined to the water, makes them both balanced *and* terrifying, and creates significant fear whenever players need to drink or cross a river.

[@Exquailibur]

The giga especially is a mid tier slaughterer, as a giga I can outrun and face tank a sucho and if I am smart and have a buddy the only thing we fear is a rex. The only reason the giga isnt a bigger problem is that rexes are basically made to exterminate gigas, many giga players expect to have an even matchup but instead find themselves outmatched by a rex. The giga can take on any dino in the game with a reasonable chance of winning.

[@bazamere]

Havent watched the whole video yet, just want to say a big THANK YOU for saying your name in this video so now I know how its pronounced 😊 ok, back to watching the video.

[@bazamere]

Love this, I would also add onto the community server issue when servers try to add rules that inhibits players fighting style. I havent played for very long and my time in the legacy branch was pretty short. One of the things I started to see before I switched to evrima was a push to "outlaw" tail riding. Which to me was unfairly hurting midtier players. Another great video though, and the audio sounds a little cleaner to me 👍 but I dont listen on headphones so I dont hear all the popping and cracking that other people say there is

[@XZaguer]

@@bazamere servers that punish tail riding are pretty rare fortunately, but it is indeed a very bad idea. I'm glad that you enjoyed the video 🙂 the audio quality is just the same, hopefully I will have a high quality mic soon

[@bazamere]

@@XZaguer Im not sure how patreon works, but Id be all for sending some support your way. Your content is definitely worth it 😊👍

[@XZaguer]

@@bazamere I appreciate that a lot! I don't know if I'm still worth having a patreon or something similar but I'm definitely thinking about it

[@xemiii]

is there a place where you can view all the creatures' stats? I've never found any in my time playing, and knowing creature matchups would be neat if I ever get back into legacy branch

[@XZaguer]

If you time "the isle growth timers" you will find a website that has most, if not all the info you need stat wise 🙂

[@jjasonbigbrain9970]

um where's the spino

[@D00MKNUCKLE]

Tbh apex predators are necessary for the game to function. The isle is pretty much a prehistoric ecosystem simulator where every player has the potential to reach the top of the food chain. Not really fair tbh

[@wavychills9346]

i've solo'd apexes as carno, carno is an apex but in the game its a "mid tier"

[@vcamv2354]

Carno is an apex in it's own environment, being Argentina where Abelisaurids where the top tier dinps thete. In Isle where you have to put every dino together, it get's into mid-tier territory as it doesn't have the size nor power of things like Giga and Rex

[@cowboylikedinos]

Is not an apex because of its stats

[@wavychills9346]

@@cowboylikedinos stats don’t make somthing an apex lol, the stats are capable enough to kill any apex in the game so idk what you mean by that

[@cowboylikedinos]

How can it be the apex predator if it can hardly take on a rex (and a solo carno shouldnt) or a trike

[@cowboylikedinos]

The apex is the one that rules the island i doubt 1 good carno is going to make a difference

[@theoddity3952]

Another great video

[@titanuskolasaurus2050]

A very well done video

[@Yanivosaurus]

TBH, I feel that the biggest problem in the Isle is the weight system (some people like it but I don’t) like in the old versions allo would kill utah in 8 hits and utah would kill it in 22 hits (2,75% difference) but now allo kills utah in 2 hits and utah kills allo in 33 hits (16,5% difference) making the allo now 6 X stronger! Not enough? Well listen to this. The old trex killed utah in 2 bites and utah killed it in 40, reasonable, BUT NOW*, the new trex kills utah in 1 bite but utah kills it in *180 BITES!* IT HAS GONE 450% STRONGER, AND UTAH IS 50% WEDKER SO THE DIFFERENCE IS 750%! *YOU WOULD NEED 180 UTAHS TO KILL 1 REX!!!* See wha it mean? There is too much of a gap in weights making some dinos strong, and other sooo week!

[@keeva2007]

honey... dondis baby is the rex and hes never gonna most likely fix it andi expect this game to get more broke as it goes on. i just quit all together

[@YStardust26]

Hope evrima will make it better with the fight System..

[@spixy977]

Great video

[@cowboylikedinos]

Protoceratops concept analysis?

[@XZaguer]

Next week 🙂

[@doctorspoon8928]

Agreed

[@dannya1854]

Apexes are too fast especially giga and acro in fast walk speed which is faster than the sprint of some dinos. All apexes either need endurance like that of Rex or speed like that of sucho (which itself should probably be a little faster itself anyways)

[@raymondwrobliski7066]

I think u left out spino lol

[@attichen4749]

So I went back to legacy today and oh boy did I forget how disgustingly awful rexes were. I guess I must have forgotten this but a rex (no ambush) is faster than a cerato (also no ambush) and can fucking one-shot an adult one. What the absolute fuck?! Think how much better and more engaging this game would be if they didn't exist

[@gambitaku6179]

So true.

[@TheStygianLight]

Solo utahs or any dino with skill can kill apexes. Sure single mistakes can kill you but that's fine rexes for example had one of or the strongest biteforce of any animal irl so that translating in game makes sense if a trex bites a utah once that obviously is gonna be death it's common sense. As for bleed, if a dinosaur of that size takes a bite of another dino it is gonna cause bleed especially with teeth design for dinos like gigas. I could keep going on but I'd say the only valid points in this video are the hitboxes, the speed of the apexes like rex being so fast when science shows otherwise and the community server stuff such as toxicity and always being apex cause of the rules and so on. The rest just practice and get better. Don't whine. The hitbox and community server points such as toxicity I understand and I 100% agree with this, but for everything else just get better man. Practice on deathmatch servers or something so that when you do get better it feels rewarding. The whole point is to play a dino and learn it practice it and master its playstyle. For example as a utah main you could learn to left ride a rex and so on. The problem like I agreed with you before here would be the hitbox that gets you sometimes for no reason which should be fixed but everything else is fine. It's realistic in my opinion. Want an easy going experience for all? Play dino "simulator" on roblox or something.

[@gumball6445]

I'm going to have to disagree respectfully sir

[@XZaguer]

My arguments disregard player skill, video games are made for a vast community, and most of it will never achieve a level of skill that the top 1% elite players will, so the games need to be balanced for the masses. This video was made to balance apexes so the game is fun for everyone, my purpose is not to make apexes obsolete, but to rather make them more in line with the rest of roster since there is a very clear power discrepancy. The realistic approach doesn't fit in the isle either since 1: the game doesn't focus on realism, and 2: fun is always above realism, there's a reason saurian failed where Bob, isle and path didn't

[@biosyn-ab4261]

Utah is literally the worst carnivore in the game lol and this is coming from someone who used to main utah

[@ArchonOfDoom]

Rexes biggest rulebreakers. Yea I do believe that Rexes do like to show off but, the servers I play. The River Den, Noobz, Dry Reef. The most noteable rulebreakers/toxic players, are the Dilos. Effin Dilos.

[@fatih9016]

I mean , they are apexes you are meant to run away from them as soon as you see them , yet a mere utah can still easily kill an apex on pretty much all community servers wich is dumb in my opinion.

[@bojack9737]

Oh my gosh I’m in this video! I’m famous

[@colecampbell1906]

Carno takes under 2 hours to grow

[@onionfrags839]

Forget legacy it’s not even getting worked on anymore

[@thomaseddy7347]

I mean, to be fair, theyre APEXES for a reason. Theyre supposed to be OP.

[@powerboom5809]

There is no problem its just anky that could kill rexes ez 175 milion years ago but now it get its killed in 5 bites. - Skomboom i played shant with u :3 or rex i dont remember lol

[@brandonforrester7342]

In thinjk they should take apexes out of the game and just have mid tier dinos

[@cosmicreef5858]

Being toxic does not depends on the dino by the way. :) It is on the player. I have seen very kind rexes and very toxic players with mid tier or smaller dinosaurs. If someone has actually played and protected their dinosaur through those 6 hours and not a bully towards other then it IS fair. They deserve their apex. Apexes are still not gods. They still need strategy and talent to not die(since there are a lot of very talented players out there with smaller dinos to) Also you have left out the albertosaurus from the mid tiers.

[@iamandyFEARME]

the cure: delete that garbage legacy branch :)

[@azbebnaith2327]

It's Just my opinioni, but this time i totally disagree, except for the part about community servers and the fact that they should be more challenging to grow. Nowadays a skillfull utha player can kill any Apex in a 1v1. I've killed rexes playing as a JUVIE Cerato and this should not be possible, in fact i stopped trying to do that because to me that felt like a broken mechanism. About the fact that they can kill a lot of things in 1 bite, I don't think it's wrong: if a Lion get bit by an Hippo it's done. This game Is a survival game more than a pvp game, if u are playing as a mid tier u can Just run away, u are not compelled to fight. And in my opinion apexes should be possible to take down only by a skillfull and coordinated pack. Regarding the hitboxes, they are broken yes, but they are only the compesation for the absence of trumple damage (and It fail at It, see the left riding mechanism).

[@rickylahey657]

Too much toxic behavior for me to put any money into it. The game is great it's the community that's got an issue. The devs may be lazy but the community pushes people out from supporting the game.

[@cowboylikedinos]

Solution= delete apex

[@xchipchip1023]

I think if they are gunna take that long and be that strong like they are I don’t think it needs balanced. I dont see how you can put realism when a raptor solo would be the same as Rex solo or anything else. I think just play the game and stop crying

[@pleasantdashi7112]

almost like apex dinosaurs are supposed to be powerful 🙄

[@uteriel282]

people are salty cause they dont understand that this isnt a fighting game but a survival simulator. they expect their favorite dino to be able to kill a rex in seconds cause fuck realism. a utahraptor has no business messing with a rex or giga but they feel strong and cool when they eat shit all day by ass riding apex´s to death on servers that dont have alt-turn enabled. these idiots complain about unfair advantages of others while abusing an unfair advantage themselves that the devs multiple times pointed out isnt how the game is supposed to be played.