Why Caesar's Legion & the Brotherhood of Steel Should Have Been Allies

Caesar’s Legion and Brotherhood of Steel are two factions within the Fallout Universe who could not be any more different. Yet both groups are united by the idea that sophisticated technology has no place in the Wasteland. Cut content reveals that an alliance between these two groups was once considered - the analysis of which will the focus of this video.
Ave True to Caesar:
What’s happened to Caesar’s Legion?
• What's happened to Cae...
Caesar’s Legions Long Term Goals
• Caesar's Legions Long ...
Caesar’s Legion Invasion of the NCR
• Could Caesar's Legion ...

[@ravensflockmate]

I think people really exaggerate the legion's stance on technology all you need to do is look at those hit squads and also an energy weapons deal with the van graffes

[@crusader2112]

Exactly. What Caesar really believes is that mankind should not be reliant upon or enslaved to technology. That a true is trained to make use of anything in his surroundings as a weapon.

[@akundaruratkalalupa9710]

@Andrew Ryan Stimpak are still produced though

[@akundaruratkalalupa9710]

@Andrew Ryan Didnt followers of the apocalypse research alternatives of it? (it yields no result, though. But as Arcade gannon say thats because there are no alternative method that is possible, implying production does happen, with more rare ingredients that are expensive enough to not easily used for charity program like followers usually do) And that there are many medical sector already start selling stuff? Heck, we even have drug runners like great khan and Contreras. Even Great khans can also create medicine too when you pass the science check.

[@akundaruratkalalupa9710]

@Andrew Ryan hm, im not sure. I never heard of there is no production of actual stimpaks.Creating drugs are not really hard if there is knowledge of it, and im sure there are a lot. I dont see anywhere regarding the stimpak being only pre - war items. Rather, the production already starts. And the wiki says that it can be produced by chemists. Gannon didnt say "real" stimpaks. Just stimpaks. The one that usually used, have a some rare ingredients that makes it somewhat expensive. Which is why follower research alternative of it, though yields no result yet. Is there any NPC that state about no Stimpak production that match pre-war? Or at least the developer said it themselves?

[@jacobkeller7172]

You think the old world created a super drug from nothing? Most likely plants broken down and added with other Chems. Sounds like a super stimpack to me.

[@ironsightsmcgillycudy7753]

Brotherhood T51 power armor but with Legion aesthetic and plumage would look freaking cool. Caesar would essentially have WH40K Space Marines on call

[@Masaki-1334]

"Stop, i can be only so erect."

[@nastynate3457]

Absolute unit

[@power_guido4012]

I wish there was a model of this armor equal to the BoS but without the faction, that one painted green I think is very ugly

[@samsargent284]

There’s a mod for FNV call Power to the Bull that adds 4 Legion power armors, including Legion T-51

[@jetpilledmyron2056]

If we had to instead envision something close to what the NCR did, immagine the Legion using just the servo-joints to archive high speed, resilence and essentialy infinite marching.

[@AAFilmworks]

I think it's worth noting that Caesar lets the Enclave Remnants leave because of the high costs to his men and the low reward of defeating the Enclave Remnants. I believe Caesar would likely use this same logic when dealing with the Brotherhood. Additionally, the BOS-NCR war makes this a fantastic opportunity.

[@Ttegegg]

Something tells me the successor isn’t that smart

[@Jamief1585]

Caesar is afraid of what the remnants might do to him if he persues them. Smart, we've got a article 5 of nato style ideology.

[@Jamief1585]

@Andrew Ryan and for a group that only uses knives and small firearms, I'd vigorously shit myself too if I saw a squad of troopers.

[@Jamief1585]

@Andrew Ryan when has the legion fought the brotherhood? I thought Caesar salad sent the courier to blow them up.

[@Jamief1585]

@Andrew Ryan sorry I didn't see your first comment, we just call in an orbital strike on those fuckers. Giant sattalite is a silo that fires 30ft. tall rods down from orbit and completely obliterates their bunkers.

[@rejvaik00]

*Basically Caesar says:* "show me how good you are fighting without technology first then you can be rewarded with it to become a better fighter" *And the BoS look on and say:* "you know what? I can respect that"

[@____________838]

Paladin Star crosses the country to slap Lanius…

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Also Caesar and his Legion seem like the type to hate Nukes. Especially Lanius, literally cowards way to fight. And Caesar wants you to blow up Securitrons, literally proving himself to be less tech hungry then NCR

[@ClintTaurusLives]

The Legion understands the importance of staying hydrated in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

[@roguetoa9787]

Always makes me laugh when a decanus takes a sip from a nuka-cola

[@xilpes6254]

They also wear suitable clothing for the climate they are in

[@SumaTJessT]

*"You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 canteen"*

[@Reishadowen]

I'm impressed that their members can even drink through their face wrap, that takes serious dedication!

[@Ttegegg]

@@Reishadowen they suck it

[@Sgt_Robo]

Caesar is the son of Mars in legion mythology, the brotherhood could easily be incorporated as priests of Vulcan, God of the forge (machines) and fire (lasers).

[@WolfbloodJakeWilliams]

Ceaser also bases most of what he does off of Rome, and they certainly made concessions and synchronised faiths to take new groups that would otherwise put up resistance. His ideology of breaking tribes and uniting them under a single banner doesn't mean he can't incorporate their skills, as shown by the dogs that are trained by one of the tribes ceaser took hold of, or the fumentari who use unorthodox methods and have access to tools and positions the rank and file don't.

[@cyb0rgtitan278]

isn't Mars the Roman god of war ?

[@CodexQuinn]

@@cyb0rgtitan278 that’s what he means. Since Caesar glorifies Mars the most I’m assuming he’s the head of the pantheon, and being the son of mars means he’s a demigod/prophet. He can instate the brotherhood as Priests of Vulcan like the guy above said, like he did with the dog guys.

[@helmetsandhandgrenades5636]

Ave true to Caesar

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Priests of Vulcan sounds FIRAH 🔥

[@roguetoa9787]

Don’t forget that the mysterious client the Van Graffs start a deal with is the Legion. That might be a problem for the Brotherhood

[@akundaruratkalalupa9710]

yes but Van graff didnt want to trade with Caesar legion and backstab them instead. Still, we know Legion probably also get supplied with a lot of other traders. Caesar doesnt seem to detest guns either, considering his rise of power is because he have knowledge on how to operate guns and teach the tribals that is on his side. Which give them huge advantage. It would be weird for Caesar to detest marksmanship, but rather i think he just hate the idea to rely on guns first then use unarmed. But rather master unarmed/melee first, and then learn marksmanship.

[@LanMandragon1720]

Not really humans acting hypocritical is standard across history. There's no real reason the BOS wouldn't also be. Anything contrary to thier ideolgy can easily be ignored.

[@____________838]

There’s always the possibility that they were attempting to purchase this high tech weaponry just to keep it out of anyone else’s hands…

[@AmalekIsComing]

@@____________838 I never thought of that but it does actually make sense...

[@karamanid]

Legion most likely buying those guns to further arm the fiends

[@steadyjumper3547]

Legion = imperium of mankind Brotherhood= Mars mechanicus That’s how I would see such an arrangement, both sides leaving each other alone but helping out of self interest.

[@charnelgaurd1085]

Exactly

[@jager2749]

The Legion are just a primitive version of the Blood Pact

[@ianperry8557]

Not gonna lie I wasn’t expecting a tarantula, frog mutualism example to be used. It’s one of my absolute favorite forms of mutualism as a keeper of tarantulas myself.

[@yaboiii6562]

This video was made for you.

[@ianperry8557]

@@yaboiii6562 bless no wonder I enjoyed it so much then! I thought it was an interesting break down :)

[@luxither7354]

Two factions who used history's symbols and customs to define a new way of life in the wasteland teaming up? Should've seen that coming.

[@rngteatowel3080]

Real recognise real

[@sextuspompeius1266]

Isn't that literally every fucking faction to ever exist in fallout

[@tmaxgo6696]

That’s literally just every faction

[@mado-wh4jv]

@@tmaxgo6696 Just because history has done everything all ready, doesn't mean some factions are more historically accurate than others.

[@peepeepoopyhead510]

They should have made it so that McNamara would favour joining the NCR and Hardin would favour Legion, while both would be capable of not joining any alliance and them being destroyed is also an option. Then they would retake Helios One at the end if they sided with the Legion and expand. Not sure what the major benefit of them siding with NCR could be. Convincing House would be cool but even more unbelievable than them siding with the Legion

[@spider-spectre]

Would love to see a realistic representation of a power armored BOS soldier fighting off a bunch of melee Legion. The legionaries desperately trying to get a blade in a small crevice or opening while the BOS member is full adrenaline using his super strength to crush and break them but, they outnumber him. Would be like real history when a Knight in steel and chain mail would fight tribals.

[@zhitchcresttail3387]

@LowTierFallout you are correct, the Legion does use Super Sledges and Thermic Lances which is probably because of the NCR using salvaged Power Armor.

[@zygimantassilobritas6034]

Except that Legion prefers melee, not uses it exclusively. They do use explosives and you can find some heavy duty long range equipment in the Legion supply cache and quite a few of their NPCs are coded to have guns, in some cases quite capable ones, on them. And in earlier concepts Lanius was supposed to use explosives. Such preference or desire to use explosives can be noted with Aurelius of Pheonix, whose group you can teach to reuse NCR mines and also Centurions in general use or at least posses dynamite or other explosives on their person. So a Legion vs BoS engagement would probably be very explosive based rather than a melee.

[@illeagle9560]

Well I mean knights were pretty tribal as well lol

[@bahahayder3859]

You clearly know nothing of the legion nor it’s equipment

[@illeagle9560]

@Andrew Ryan I forgot about the thermic lances. I need to do a pc playthrough soon

[@CaesarSonOfMars]

The perfect alliance doesn't exi-

[@Alex_FRD]

Another idea that was cut from the game was for Mr. House to accept NCR annexation of Vegas, in exchange for full NCR citizenship and the Lucky 38 as his property. It's implied that House would have used the trappings of corruption and nepotism within the NCR to become extremely influential in their politics and business regulations.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

"We had found a massive structure, surrounded by the abominations of the Old World - robots. Their firepower was uncontested, their armor impenetrable, and their fervor in the defense of this place insurmountable, even with our numbers. Then, the Centurion sent a courier out into the waste. Upon his return, ten warriors, clad in shining steel and bearing the Mark of Caesar, accompanied him. Without a word, they unleashed such fire upon the robots that I shook in awe and terror to behold it. The weapons of the foe were turned away by these warriors' plate, who in turn reduced the abominations to nought but slag and ash where they stood. So fierce and awful was the might of these warriors, that they accomplished in a day what our entire cohort could not achieve in a fortnight of combat. Then, we received the order to move on, and let our saviors deal with the structure. No questions were to be asked, for the mission of their order was sacrosanct, I am told. We only know that they protect us from the mistakes of the Old World, these chosen Angels of Mars who alone are blessed to harness the weapons of a bygone age."

[@coreehubt4823]

I really want a comic version of this now

[@moondrip2163]

Holy shit, do you write books or something?

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

@@moondrip2163 I write a little bit For this, I took inspiration from how Space Marines are written about from the perspective of Guardsmen in the Warhammer 40k setting.

[@xvndyz]

Well written

[@michaela2634]

New Vegas does such a good job of portraying the strengths and weaknesses of each political system. Caesar's Legion, an authoritarian faction, acts with speed and power but is brutally violent, lacks free will, and is politically frail. The NCR, a democracy, has freedom, relatively broad popular support, and is politically stable. But democracies are slow moving and inefficient because of bureaucracy.

[@rasheedyoufreealrajhi6022]

yes the ncr is totally stable and isn't collapsing

[@uberd3323]

@@rasheedyoufreealrajhi6022 >Laughs in The Hub cucking their own national currency by reintroducing caps as the economic standard

[@supermariolego878]

NCR politically stable lol

[@user-vp6cq4sv3d]

The NCR forces itself onto others. It's priorities are to go beyond California. The support isn't there. It's people who are apolitical within the mojave that haven't comprehended the logic of the legion. But because this is the apocalypse. It's alot more difficult to do any social engineering since people would rather live and be left alone if anything as you can gather from the farmers nearer to where the boomers are situated and the people of Quarry Junction and Goodsprings and Primm which have enough on their plate as it is without the NCR barging in offering democratic government infrastructure when nobody fucking asked. It's owned by Brahmin Barons and is an oligarchy through and through. More territory comes more capital. Capital from manifesting more citizens.

[@mitchjames9350]

@@uberd3323 the BOS damaged the NCR’s currency.

[@SydSengotta]

Dude, you may have predicted the second season of fallout years before it was even released!

[@Nope-ik8wv]

Came here to say this lol

[@Hatypus]

As Sgt. Robo said, integrating some faction of the Brotherhood as a Cult of Vulcan would make some sense, being those trusted with collecting technology for the legion, and keeping it away from those not trusted with it yet.

[@TheFrogEnjoyer]

One of the few good Fallout channels left

[@SirMrProfessor]

Alex Jones approved

[@starpaladinnelaj]

For real. This guy is carrying Fallout KZbin on his back

[@spiffygonzales5160]

That's just because we haven't had a good fallout since NV and 3 before that. Fallout 4 was way too crafty and arcadey and easily to colorful. Your actions didn't affect the wasteland at all aside from just... Base building. To top it all off there was zero moral ambiguity in the game. You had a clear evil faction, a clear good faction, a clear stupid faction, and a faction who you'd gain the most material benefit from joining. Theres nothing like FO3s Pitt dlc where you have to decide between asur and Werner.

[@rhett5058]

Schizo Elijah, Red Tsun, Chad No-Bark the Chad trinity

[@kaiser6412]

@@rhett5058 redditor trinity*

[@crumb105]

I thought this was a Schizo Elijah video for a second based on thumbnail alone.

[@animq4ionboi.153]

Yeah I mean his character is literally Elijah, a BoS former elder and his vids about Legion

[@weqweqkweq7264]

BoS and Legion alliances has a pretty good chances in my eyes. Just like US and Soviet cooperation in WW2. Maybe after winning the war against the NCR there will be a tension between the BoS and the Legion but that too seems a bit unikely .Since the BoS is just an organization that is okay with not having a country or state on its own.

[@Ttegegg]

Unless the Midwestern brotherhood becomes a superpower to help in the ceaser war. Is likely that the brotherhood can’t handle the forces of legionnaires.

[@adudeontheinternet8246]

@@Ttegegg I think they'd be better as special forces-- Striking key targets with lots of technology that the legion couldn't handle without purging their own ranks afterward.

[@uberd3323]

@@Ttegegg I dont know if the Midwestern Brotherhood even still exists by the time of NV. Caesar’s Legion has wiped out Brotherhood chapters east of Arizona.

[@GuscioRosso]

Totally different

[@devinthorn8182]

Nah brotherhood lets women fight. They would clash way too much over women’s role in society

[@rafa_gasperi]

man, this video is never been newer

[@alltheclovers532]

I love the idea of these legion citizens reverently handing over tech to this giant faceless hunk of metal, while just behind the helmet is some awkward teen on their first trip out of the bunker.

[@curtismcpsycho8212]

Some awkward buff teen! you know everyone has to be jacked from walking around with power armor on.

[@rasheedyoufreealrajhi6022]

@@curtismcpsycho8212 and totally not from watching a thing called redmoa

[@katanah3195]

@@curtismcpsycho8212 Yeah, that shit must be really damn heavy. I definitely wouldn't want to have to wear it.

[@ghostdigit1555]

Caesar isn't wrong. The Brotherhood is too dogmatic and short-sighted. They could've recivilized the West decades in advance before the NCR rose to its prominence. Instead, they waited until they developed into a threat and got nearly wiped out. The Legion has its flaws but at least it's a solution. The Brotherhood is an active hindrance on the development of human post-war society.

[@curtismcpsycho8212]

The brotherhood you're talking about was led by Elijah, Mcnamara would probably be more diplomatic if the NCR wasn't a bunch of greedy dipshits.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

I Found a Shovel !! BoS : i will take that 🙄

[@evan448]

i could imagine the brotherhood existing within legion territory in the same way the fallowers are allowed to exist in legion territory. so long as they dont challenge the legions right to rule, I cant see the legion caring what technology they horde. if they could form an auxiliary unit to the legion that would definitely be appreciated

[@BitterBatter]

4:02 The comedic timing of the sentinel pausing and adjusting their posture is incredible

[@timurnurzhauov1917]

OH MY GOD! I've had this idea ever since I've first played FNV but everyone I told this to thought I was insane! It feels so validating seeing my favourite Fallout lore KZbinr make a video on this topic. Your videos are always a banger! Thanks for continuing to produce such high quality Fallout videos!

[@samuelaraujomedeiros6682]

I've never though about this idea, but it does make a lot of sense

[@Nope-ik8wv]

Your about to see this idea come to life in the 2nd season of the fallout tv show

[@RiotKurhein]

I once fanfic'd a union between the Enclave and Legion which would be very similar to the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k.

[@jager2749]

what fanfic can you pass?

[@kamalalsb7292]

I think kind of the point of those groups in most of fallout is - their ideologies make them unstable specifically because they CAN'T have proper allies as a result of them. The Legion are Imperialists and ultimately they conquer, they don't cooperate. The Brotherhood are Isolationist, which also prevents *most* cooperation in any kind of long term sense.

[@skywise001]

I could see Ceaser taking a page from Rome's book and appointing the Brotherhood and priests. Able to handle the 'unclean' technology and secure it away where it wont harm the citizens of the Empire. This would fit with the Brotherhood's attitude pretty well Id think. Oh also Caisar knows he needs beuracrats to run his Empire and the scribes would be an excellent source for recruits.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

7:04 Ironically in some ways BOS are more Luddites then Caesar's Legion. Because atleast Caesar allows high tech technology to some, so long as you earned it in their ranks. Besides being one of the BOS, you aren't getting any tech from em

[@mrlollipop638]

Was excited to see this in my inbox, been playing through FNV recently for the first time in six years with most of the viva new vegas mod list on hardcore and have been having a blast

[@yaboiii6562]

Nice! Who you backing?

[@mrlollipop638]

@@yaboiii6562 Honestly I think I'm leaning NCR right now. In the past I'd usually go Yes Man, but this time I'm thinking a bit differently for a few reasons. I still sympathize with the idea of independence for Vegas but the various groups of Vegas that I think would play an important role in building some kind of democratic independent state, like the Westside militia, the Kings, and the local Followers, all benefit from cooperation with the NCR more than they'd benefit if the NCR was forced to withdraw from the region entirely. Dialogue in the game mentions that Westside has experienced a reprieve from Fiend attacks because NCR forces at McCarran keep them in check. The Followers and the Kings meanwhile both benefit heavily from cooperation with the NCR in-game, greatly reducing poverty and violence in Freeside based on the relevant ending slides from what I remember. The main thing holding me back from fully supporting the NCR is I'm worried a success in the Mojave might reward war-hawks like Kimball, Oliver, and Moore, whereas a forced NCR withdrawal bolsters anti-hawk sentiment indicated by Hanlon's election and the presumed ruination of the political careers of Kimball and Oliver.

[@yaboiii6562]

Sounds good! and great points in regards to Westside, Freeside and the Followers tbh. They all disparage the NCR but also piggyback of the protection they provide.

[@mrlollipop638]

@@yaboiii6562 True, that's a great way of summarizing it! One thing I've always been curious about it in the event of an independent/House ending is the fate of the NCR rangers in the Mojave, because if I'm not wrong the former Desert Rangers of the Mojave were incorporated into the NCR Rangers and keep most of the gangs of the Mojave like the Vipers and Jackals in check. So I've always wondered if all the rangers would pack up and head for the Mojave Outpost or if the Desert Rangers would return in some form, and if not whether weak gangs like the Vipers and Jackals could rebuild their strength in their absence. Don't feel obligated to reply to that question unless you feel like it though, just thinking out loud! Keep up the great work man I look forward to your uploads

[@JRYYD]

@@yaboiii6562 Very nice video with all your point in what the legion can use the BoS for in regards to its belief system. In the base game, Mr House will not allow the BoS to be a part of his New Vegas because of its view on tech, but at one point there was the option to gain an alliance between the two, if you have done one side of the faction coin why not the other where you do a what if where Mr House has a treaty with them. In my mind Mr House agrees to let the BoS be the start of the new High Tech Centre of his New Vegas.

[@jakkuhl6223]

"After taking Hoover Dam, the Legion established dual siege lines around both Helios I and Hidden Valley. A single, unarmed Decanus approached the former's garrison with terms for the Legion's withdrawal: the Brotherhood must nominate and send one of its senior members to take Caesar's Mark, and come to the bargaining table. After tense negotiations, an agreement to spare both great bloodshed is reached: the Legion would rule the Mojave without contest from the Brotherhood, who would in turn respond to Legion calls to contain advanced technology, while retaining their current holdings and diverting half of Helios I's output wherever Caesar wished."

[@honpolyo]

All you gotta do is toss a rock down their air vents and clog up the filtration system, they'll come out eventually, on top of that their point of access is surrounded by cliffs on every side. Mines layed at every narrow exit, a few .50s loaded with AP, and a few handfuls peppering them with lighter fire to distract and keep pinpointing of heavier fire to a minimum. The brotherhood hasnt the numbers to pursue, and likely arent as fast and maneuverable as the light infantry as the legion, just run them around at distance like the NCR did at the first battle.

[@nape1475]

I'm just thinking that this would all make a really good post-game mod, like a "Battle for New Vegas", set soon after the second battle of Hoover Dam. Legion starts spilling over the river in a vast horde, the NCR masses troops in the Mojave, the BOS takes HELIOS ONE, Black Mountain, and begins recruiting from wastelanders and rebuilding their numbers. The Legion and BOS form a truce and agree to strategically coordinate to remove all remaining NCR forces in the area, with the BOS relaying intel of NCR troop positions through the radio array at Black Mountain to the Fort across the river. The BOS has scouts all over the Mojave in plain clothes, relaying intel so that Legion and BOS patrols can coordinate attacks on NCR... meanwhile, from their giant underground bunker just outside of Cheyenne Mountain in Wyoming, the remnants of the west coast Enclave make their preparations for a full scale military invasion of thousands of Enclave shock troops, looking for revenge against the weakened NCR... I'm imagining that in this mod, Mr. House and his Securitron army would have to be wiped out for this to work... so I would explain this story-wise, as the Enclave showing up in a large scale tactical Vertibird raid, taking over the whole strip, destroying and reprogramming the Securitrons, and ending Mr. House's rain, if he survived or not. This would be an amazing project, like a whole extra game built on to FNV that takes effect when you actually beat the game. A game where you could actually side with the Legion, NCR, (Their main base will likely be a highly fortified Mojave Outpost) Enclave, BOS, and others... Imagine, for example, that the Boomers side with the Enclave and receive Enclave tech and military assistance in exchange for quartering Enclave troops and serving as a strategic airbase for Vertibird raids, making the Boomers a far more powerful faction than they were before. Quests for each faction, including full scale military conflicts and epic battles (Like Broken Steel but way better) including huge underground pre-war military/government bunker complexes, and traveling to different lands to infiltrate and destroy the headquarters of each faction... I've seen some people working on post-game mods and it's very promising. I just want the story and plotlines to continue into "what ifs" to keep it alive and not stale. A mod with a ton of combat and big high-level engagements would be fun, especially with tons of troops you can toss mininukes at for fun... I always felt like FNV had all these great weapons and everything but not enough fun and challenging combat. I want like actual WARS between factions. Like battlefields.

[@longlivetheknot4589]

"When fallout new vegas, is inevitably, re-released to us all" dont tease me like that

[@aordinaryperson8098]

Well it have a big possibility now

[@Catholic_skald]

I think this oversimplifies the Legion's stance on technology. The Legion has dealings with the Van Graffs, hoping to acquire energy weapons. They use bombs and guns, radios, cyberdogs, and even a Howitzer. Caesar's use of the Autodoc isn't hypocrisy. He simply forbids chems and painkillers, not medicine entirely. He permits you to perform surgery on him yourself if you so choose. In the post game the Legion wipes out the Brotherhood presumably with weaponry capable of defeating power armor (or using the self destruct bunker codes; either way involve technological knowhow). The Legion even occupies Helios One if the NCR is driven out.They don't share common interests with the Brotherhood because the Brotherhood would seek to confiscate the tech that they acquire. The Legion believe that the over-reliance on technology is a weakness, not a strength, whereas the Brotherhood believes that technology itself is intrinsically dangerous in the wrong hands. Similar, but not the same beliefs, and that's the extent of their similarities. The Legion believes in changing and adapting (as per Caesar's belief in Hegelian Dialectic), whereas the Brotherhood at its core is not interested in change. Also, cut content isn't lore. It never happened. It never will happen, and using it in argumentation isn't definitive.

[@mitchjames9350]

The legion is like the NCR both use mass troops, the legion would most likely overwhelm the bos forcing them to retreat.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

It still makes more sense then BOS and NCR alliance, both hate each other and backstabbed each other, NCR wants and WILL technologically advance. Imho it only makes sense for BOS to reject alliance not Legion, Caesar should've know the alliance makes a lot of sense, but since BOS in Mojave are paranoid Schizo freaks, it makes sense they refuse any alliance besides independent Vegas. Unironically they should've forced even NCR Couriers to wipe em out.

[@nicholasemjohnson47]

Caesar's use of an Auto-Doc IS hypocritical. He says humanity shouldn't be reliant on technology, yet he himself has no issues with using it to keep himself from dying. If he can't survive without it, then by his own logic, he doesn't deserve to live.

[@xxlCortez]

Thing is, by the taking Caesar's ego out of the equation, it takes out most of the Legion as well. Caesar's ego is what led him to become an ultimate warlord over unquestioning fanatics, using an early (and failed) to base his Legion on. He keeps rationalizing his decision with things like "we have to avoid relying on gadgets, so that we can be strong) but his entire mannerism toward the Courier, lies to his allies and hypocrisy in pointing out flaws in others that the Legion also has proves that he's just a power-hungry megalomaniac. By the way: you forgot the mention that the Brotherhood Caesar overwhelms in Hidden Valley are already crippled by the Courier, so it's not like Caesar's Legion is so awesome. It's the exact same case as the NCR outnumbering the Brotherhood at HELIOS and driving them out.

[@modelnanpresident]

Man. These videos are so gooooood. Well done!!

[@yaboiii6562]

Glad you like them!

[@luxither7354]

Yaboii; the new age Fallout: New Vegas loremaster. Keep up the great work!

[@yaboiii6562]

Thank you!

[@darthjekyll3648]

@@yaboiii6562 What about nc conquroring the subjects of the legion, not slaves.

[@Colenelnelson]

I always had felt that in the Hardin Mcnamara conflict was leading up to Hardin proposing an alliance with the Legion in which theyd attack HELIOS ONE.

[@jager2749]

honesty this make senses, Hardin he was wants attack the helios one ocupped by ncr.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

14:10 I wouldn't even call Legion enemy of BOS, it's really just Caesar animosity and pride that keeps him from seeing an even bigger picture. BOS are like traitors of the technological world, sure they still use technology but they only do it to hoarde it, it's literally perfect ally faction for Legion. They hoarde tech to not tempt Legion citizens and in return Legion somewhat anti tech ideology keeps tribals away from tech like BOS wants. I'm honestly surprised this such seemless perfect alliance isn't achievable in game

[@askindo5466]

fuck it one struggle

[@crusader2112]

One Struggle! Ave. For The Brotherhood! ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻

[@legionfantastic4208]

"There wouldn't be wastelanders to take tech for power if they are all enslaved or crucified!" -my first thought when i saw this

[@Methevas12]

I think an interesting part of all of this, is we already see the Legion going after more advanced weaponry in the finale of the Silver Rush quest line.

[@JonatasAdoM]

"Bethesda has rereleased the same game with microtransactions over and over. They're a dead end"

[@Prince_Luci]

I’m doing a super bad guy legion melee run rn and Veronica has been my companion. She seems to have no real issue standing outside Caesar’s tent with the praetorian. If you ask her about them directly she’s def not a fan, but apparently not enough of one to refuse to walk around helping them.

[@warandconquest6522]

I just want to watch a bunch of legion recruits try to hack apart a Paladin in power armor with rusty machetes. Really the only thing that could hurt them is anti material rifle and the thematic lance

[@poslednisoud]

The main reason this wouldn't work is both sides seeing everybody else as inferior. I think NCR/Minutemen would be a great fit teaming up with Brotherhood though. Brotherhood needs resources and manpower and requires to oversee the technology. The other two factions would really benefit from their technological expertise and military might. Alliance where NCR/Minutemen provides the infrastructure, laws and people while Brotherhood is allowed to oversee technology to prevent abuse and concentrate on outside threats as the elite troops (like astartes for all you Warhammer fans) would rebuild the world in no time. Paladins actually protecting the weak and innocent as their name suggests and kids dreaming of signing up with Brotherhood to be a hero.

[@imperialguard7418]

This would be an absolutely insane power couple

[@Robert-rw5lm]

Sounds like the Brotherhood of Steel would be the Adaptus Machanicus to the Legion's Imperiam

[@jager2749]

I have the theory that Fallout and Warhammer 40k are the same universe

[@devilgamer-rr8639]

the frog legionnaire was so fucking funny

[@crusader2112]

God Bless The Enclave. God Bless America. The Enclave will make all other factions bow.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

Pretty sure Autumn was the only enclave member in all of fallout who wanted people to bow. In 2 and 3 they just wanted to purge the wasteland.

[@crusader2112]

@@spiffygonzales5160 I don't endorse the Rabid Purists.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@crusader2112 I do. Purge the wasteland and rebuild. No nukes, no war, no raiders, no monsters, no mutants, no unnatural disease, no mass scavenging economics Just the former u.s government rebuilding a wasteland free from everything that makes fallout a living hell.

[@crusader2112]

@@spiffygonzales5160 But killing majority Wastelanders, why? Based PrussianBall Pfp though. Prussian GANG!

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@crusader2112 Lol. Don't get me wrong it's a shitty side effect that all the smart ghouls and most of the people will die, but like... Take the NCR and bring it another hundred years down the line when they start running out of stuff to scavenge. I don't really see any faction in fallout being able to rebuild other than the Enclave.

[@theStoryteller402]

they cut this? edit: 14:43 also those weren't scribes if they didn't know maxon, but rather initiates. the Midwest historically since they took a more followers like approach is always critically under-supplied, but unlike other chapters does not lack manpower, even with keeping the potentially fatal initiation trials. but they would not use the name "codex" for there military manual since it is also the name of an accepted religon in the areas "bible"

[@alex_ho]

It always struck me odd how the BoS has a higher chance allying the NCR than the Legion Given that the NCR was both at war with the BoS as well as being ideologically opposed to the Brotherhood

[@MR.LMR1996]

That's because the Legion has no tolerance for any organised factions that don't answer to them. You're either target practice or a slave in the Legions eyes. Not a potential ally.

[@zanard33]

I have this mod installed... now I just actually have to finish a playthrough to see it working.

[@serronserron1320]

The two factions are far too arrogant to tolerate each other's existence

[@JCDenton2012Modder]

Even the real Roman Empire needed their Gaul Warriors. The Brotherhood of Steel, with their power armor, historically could fill a similiar role. Furthermore, who better to hand over pre-war technology than the technophobic legion. Its like getting your Adeptus Mechanicus early and enjoying it.

[@ryanalamo3851]

Its insane to think that the BOS could be almost a monastic order that coexists with the Legion. Like monk monsataries in the time of Rome

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

You might want to start requesting a paycheck, or at least a prop from the show.

[@omegayeet6183]

Interesting to think both factions use Latin sometimes

[@VeteranDecanus86]

“Sibyl” is the Roman equivalent of “oracle.”

[@adamhenrywalker]

Yes. The Legion unites with the Brotherhood to conquer the NCR. Then the Legion turns on the Brotherhood and enslaves them as well. I love it. Ave! True to Caesar!

[@60sspider-man29]

The Legions stance on tech is really exaggerated doesn't think technology is evil. They think humanity should not be reliant on technology. Look at the Howitzer, Van Graff deal, and energy weapons. Remember. Caesar's Legion is based off of Rome. The Romans highly valued the newest of technologies and saw use of old technology as a handicap. But they also understood that the over reliance of technology could cause terrible outcomes.

[@ordinator7203]

If new Vegas ever get a sequel This would be a really cool faction interaction.

[@minotaur818]

Spoilers Your wish might've came true in the Fallout show judging by their naming convention and sudden religious aspect of the show's California chapter. Its not just a truce, but synthesis of the two.

[@Drakonian-gz2nq]

I'm pretty sure that if the legion won and allied themselves with the Brotherhood, Fallout would become Warhammer 40k, just take Adeptus Mechanicus and substitute it for "Brotherhood of Steel".

[@jager2749]

honesty, i have that theory that actually yes, they are the same universe

[@akuladoctor7355]

Even before watching the video i knew the primary reason. The Legion does not like using technology. Sure their elite squad, and top leadership does have some levels of technology, but it something you earn in the Legion instead of being granted. Also the top tier they have intention to reach is nothing to be afraid of. On the other hand the BoS wants to hoard high technology so others can't "misuse it". The Legion, and the BoS are not in conflict, and they have a common enemy as well. The BoS is a dead end in their current predicament. The NCR already kicked their butt pretty badly, and it's only a matter of time until similar nations rise. Nations want to use technology for their own benefit, and the BoS is way too strict on guarding it. Sure i understand wanting to safekeep a nuclear bomb, or a giant war robot. But safekeeping stuff like agriculture technology? How they gona misuse that? Make too much food?

[@jager2749]

and thats my opinion the BOS should be stay with NCR in the first place

[@Tracer_Krieg]

There are two issues with this argument 1. While the Legion itself may find a use for the Brotherhood as a means to keep technology out of the hands of itself and the Brotherhood not minding the Legion for despising tech, the idea the Brotherhood simply wouldn't care about their brutality is simply incorrect. If Lyons' group can form completely different opinions just based on their experiences in Pittsburg, yet another slave based society, I sincerely doubt they would tolerate the Legions atrocities for long. Sooner or later, there would be calls from its members to put them down. 2. While Caesar may promote the idea of an alliance, his successors won't. Just based on the actions of Lanius should he lead, he would not tolerate any such alliance and seek to put the Brotherhood to the sword. He is a zealot. Just look at what he does to New Vegas should he win compared to Caesar. This is why an alliance with the NCR simply put works better. While they're primary goals do clash, they stand far closer on a moral standing, which is what humans in the long run will ultimately base themselves off of. Even the most staunchly isolationist can and will be eventually be won over due to moral and strategic means. Additionally, a ceasefire here in the Mojave may actually save what is left of the Brotherhood in California, as no doubt such a ceasefire may eventually extend there, compared to allying with the NCR's most hated rival. If anything, a Legion-Brotherhood alliance will merely incentivize the NCR to resort to extreme measures to eliminate their two foes, which could easily mean the deployment of some truly nasty weapons they have no doubt discovered throughout their territory.

[@Man_Aslume]

If Liberty prime wasn't destroyed Imagine Liberty prime walking to New Vegas

[@butcherpete2286]

Ive never actually cinsidered these two teaming up before, but whej you talk about the "one side hates tech and the other side hoards it" angle of symbiotes it actually makes a lot of sense. It goes deeper too, as we know of several BOS members that leave and forge their own path, which the BOS hates or whole factions of the BOS thay start doing their own thing. The Legion could actually help the BOS keep that from happening. To a degree anyways.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

10:45 POG Union? 0-o This sounds like some sick, yet beautiful union

[@AbyssWatcher745]

Ave, the Emperor protects!

[@greenkoopa]

Man if they remastered New Vegas it would take twice as long as it took to develop it. I always wanted more to do with the Powder Gangers tbh

[@SuperGman117]

People keep shouting about how pragmatic the Legion is that by this point they forget they have an actual ideology, one that does not allow for compromise. Caesar would not accept such a powerful force being beyond his control, especially not in the event of a victory over the NCR. A betrayal would be inevitable, and both sides would know it. The NCR is much more politically malleable and morally sensible, which ultimately makes reconciliation with the NCR a more rational choice than an alliance with the Legion. People forget that before the NCR-BOS war, both sides were on quite friendly terms with one another. History has already shown that if the Brotherhood lets go of its worst dogmatism and becomes willing to compromise, they naturally ally themselves with factions like the NCR, while the Legion can be compared more closely to the Master's army.

[@BilboBaggMan]

I also have pondered this alliance. I love it.

[@richardjy89]

The Legion is about service to the Self, hence the Bull. The Brotherhood of Steel, a Tech Singularity.

[@ryanwinborne5002]

good video, I like the points you made, now I think that as the chapters differed in mission and method Caesar could have allied with some chapters, Caesar may not have gone for it but I think he'd have the option.

[@charliebottom_ramen498]

I feel like "armistice" would be a more apt term, and that McNamara or Hardin would be open to it. They would have the walk of all of the Wasteland sans the Legion, and the symbiosis would be too fruitful for them to pass up. What the Brotherhood wouldn't see coming is that the Legion is huge, like huge huge. In a few years the Legion would be pure and strong, with many more numbers, and could wipe the Brotherhood eventually simply because in the Midwest they truly are a dead end. Just gotta ride that out until the Brotherhood clears the trash (technology) and then send a contingent of Frumentarii to blow the entrance to the bunker and trap them inside. gg ez

[@JRYYD]

This has been a very interesting idea to explore I never thought of before, what is next?

[@god47398]

i really hope youre right about the inevitable rerelease

[@adrianvulpes9509]

I recently had an opportunity to interview Caesar after Courier Six campaigned for the Legion, and this was his response when I asked for his thoughts of the BoS and a potential alliance respectively: “The Brotherhood of Steel, a topic that stirs mixed sentiments within me. They are a faction that fancies themselves as custodians of technology, hoarding knowledge and advanced weaponry in the name of preservation. Their noble cause, it seems, is tainted by a misguided sense of superiority and isolationism. They view themselves as the sole stewards of progress, dismissing others as unworthy. While I acknowledge their dedication to securing technology from those who would misuse it, their methods and zealotry often hinder cooperation and hinder the growth of society. My Legion, on the other hand, seeks to unite and assimilate diverse tribes, instilling discipline, order, and a shared purpose. We embody the strength of the Roman Empire, adaptable and relentless, for the betterment of the wasteland.” “An intriguing proposition, indeed. The Brotherhood of Steel's expertise in dealing with advanced technology cannot be denied. However, any potential alliance with them would require careful consideration and evaluation of their goals, principles, and their rigid code. While their technological prowess may be valuable, their inherent reluctance to share knowledge and their insular nature could prove to be obstacles in forging a mutually beneficial agreement. “Furthermore, the Brotherhood's ideology often clashes with the fundamental tenets of my Legion. Their obsession with hoarding technology and maintaining a monopoly on its use runs contrary to our belief in assimilation and progress for the betterment of all. Therefore, such an alliance would demand significant compromises and a clear understanding of each faction's roles and responsibilities. “Ultimately, the decision to engage in negotiations or seek an arrangement with the Brotherhood of Steel would depend on the specific circumstances, risks, and potential benefits that arise. It is a path that must be treaded with caution and a keen eye for preserving the values and vision of my Legion.”

[@connorsmith1005]

"How dare you use technology to try and rebuild society and improve quality of life! Give that Water purifier, Hydroponic farm and Automated Medical services over to us, a small group of heavily armed killers. So we can put it all in a big cupboard usable by no one. Not even us!" -The Brotherhood of Steel to every wastelander wielding anything more advanced than a pipe pistol.

[@Summersong2262]

I think the Centurions were just using pieces they sized from NCR Heavy Troopers.

[@gundamfacts]

Actually it's more likely it comes from BoS. Caesar tells you they fought the BoS in the East, and captured some scribes, and in his personal footlocker, you can find a full set of working T45d

[@VB-wf3eq]

I could of swear that cut content dialogue for Ceasar to let the brotherhood go was usable for the 360 back in the day when I ever played it for the first time. Is it possible that dialogue must've glitched? Cause I never seen it ever again till I decided to look it up to see if I was just misremembering it

[@aerialmacaroon6312]

I remember once seeing an option to ally them together but nobody seems to no how

[@issuespunkrock]

Love your videos man!

[@yaboiii6562]

Appreciate it!

[@chronosnoob]

Just when I thought yaboi had run out of legion vids

[@yaboiii6562]

This will never end.

[@Intr0vertical]

They both got destroyed in my save... Courier Monocracy for the win!

[@jaceclarke6139]

Ave, true to Caesar

[@spiffygonzales5160]

God bless America. God bless... The Enclave.

[@uhhyeacoolman2786]

they might even leave the BoS alone like what they did with the Boomers

[@ivanbond5209]

The problem is this theory entirely rests on Caesar living to order his men to kill the BOS. He would live to win at Hoover dam but I highly doubt he'd live long after if he did at all since ingame he's in a coma before hand and the stating he did could just be propaganda. Lanius is much smarter then people give him credit for, even more then Caeser since he can be reasoned with on the invasion of the NCR. I think the alliance would be highly likely if Lanius is in charge and realistically he would be.

[@jager2749]

in my opinion , no. Lanius its a general not a president.

[@CyNiiCaL_nR7Gaming]

Have you ever checked out Old world blues a mod for hearts of iron 4?

[@jk3jk35]

well the TV show is here

[@equitesloricatus6035]

You want 40k? This is how you get 40k.

[@madisons2117]

I think that if Obsidian would've been given more time and better resources we would've seen a wasteland full to the brim with "could haves" for factions. The Enclave got some small redemption, The Brotherhood had half a dozen chances to survive but didnt take any, The Followers help pretty much everyone except the legion, even helping the khans form an empire supposedly. All this to say that I think a lot of the point with this faction is to put the final nails in the coffin on the old Brotherhood. Against all odds they practically chose to go down. I just wish they would've had the guts to let me formally retire that chapter and employ their scientists in the independent ending.

[@scottvandesand9366]

Tbh the main problem is the brotherhood is too smart for this, they would know that any "aliance" with the legion would actually mean "we won't fight with you for now and then will stab you in the back when you do our dirty work for us." The brotherhood is also too prideful to ever really work with other groups, that's what started the whole NCR-Brotherhood war in the first place

[@mflugo9082]

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[@Christopher-eq1rn]

I can't imagine that the Legion wouldn't betray the brotherhood tho

[@gasstationnachos1925]

Ave, true to caesar!

[@lostliberty9913]

Right!? I always thought this! 👍

[@drkinferno72]

Brotherhood of mars