Yamaha EAD 10 and Toontrack ezDrummer2

This is audio of a Yamaha EAD-10 system on a kit with mesh head, triggers, and real cymbals triggering the ezDrummer2 VSTi (plug-in) on a MacBook. The cymbals are real, through the EAD Sensor, the drum sounds are all from ezDrummer2, triggered from DT50 triggers on the mesh drum heads on a Yamaha Stage Custom Hip Kit.

[@TonyGellaDrums]

Great also to see all options with same kit but with internal sounds, and new sounds downloadings

[@rondeangelis7384]

excellent Simon 👌. After reviewing, tackled concept with my kit DIY internal triggering with Mesh Heads. Midi with the EAD-10 (changed midi to channel 11) and Roland Modules (midi channel 10;) with Addictive Drums. Zildjian Gen16s (thru my Mixer USB). Using Reaper, Addictive Drums (channel 1) , Gen16s (channel 2).👍

[@gazzabel7040]

Wow I’ve been looking for something like this exact video for a long time…I have an ead which I use with Yamaha triggers and mesh heads in my loft with low volume cymbals as a practice kit .the mesh heads are the ultra thick ones from drum tec which although loud feel like the real thing I do all my practice in their and I have another full acoustic kit I use with normal cymbals with my band for gigging etc …however I’ve long thought wouldn’t it be excellent to use my cymbals with the ead and trigger much better sounds into a computer as I’ve just bought a brand new Apple Mac mini the now all I need is the software to record studio quality drums …superb

[@RustyKnorr]

It would be nice to see a step by step video on how to do this for those who have little to no experience running a DAW or VST instruments.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Would be good. But it was possible for me and I had no experience. There was lots of moving parts though, lots of videos and forums for tips. Maybe I’ll try post a video of my set up once I get it all working well, as still trying to get the kick to respond well.

[@guidonetube]

Hi @Simon Edgoose thank you very much, this clip is very helpful. I'm working in a very similar situation, mesh heads + triggers + EAD10 + silent cymbals BUT what's amazing is how good your ghost notes are. Please suggest us which mesh head and EAD10 setting you are using to have those perfect ghost notes on a mesh head, thanks in advance!

[@edruminfo]

Its not so much to do with the triggers or the mesh heads (although they do play a small part) and it is more down to knowing how to set up triggers correctly to get good performance. Have a read of this, and it should help www.dropbox.com/s/xnvb2gj5etvelf8/How%20To%20Set%20Your%20Trigger%20Settings%20Correctly%20-%20General.pdf?dl=0

[@lincmitch]

Thinking of getting Yamaha's FC3 SUSTAIN PEDAL as the EAD10 manual says it has the most functions: • Switch on or off • Adjust volume (pedal returns when released) • Play Trigger Sounds Have you used it and do you know of any video reviews out there? Or is the Yamaha's HH65 is a better option - if I can assign more trigger sounds than the FC3?

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Just picked one up. Seems to work just like the DT50 triggers (well 1 trigger sound it seems). I can get Effects and Reverb dials working via the Adjust Volume function. But not sure how the “Switch on or off” function works. Again any tips appreciated.

[@lucasdewitartist7406]

Thank you so much Simon for this great tip! Like other people in the chat have asked, I also want to ask you to make a video of how you did this. What trigger settings did you use (sensitivity etc). Also how you got both sound and midi through the usb of the EAD10 module. I already ordered the DT50 triggers after seeing this video :-) It would be wonderful if you can make a video, taking a grand ignoramus like me through these steps from beginning to end. But again, thanks for sharing!

[@edruminfo]

Hi Lucas. Thanks for getting in touch. I will do a video, but I cant for quite a few weeks as I'm doing other things. However, its much simpler than I think people imagine it is. I don't use any special trigger settings - if the EAD is set up correctly in the first place for YOUR playing (and we are all different in what settings we need) - you should just be able to connect to ezDrummer or any other VSTi (plugin) and it should just work. If it doesn't then your trigger settings were not correct in the first place. The EAD outputs audio AND midi at the same time as long as you are using triggers to generate the midi data. In your DAW (Logic, Ableton, Cubase etc) you need to set up to record on 2 channels - one for audio from the EAD and one for the MIDI date which will run ezDrummer. Thats all there is to it. Give it a try and see. Its quite simple once you know how.

[@lucasdewitartist7406]

Thanks man! Just a question, did you select a specific drum map in EZ Drummer for the EAD 10, or was it just plug and play?

[@edruminfo]

@@lucasdewitartist7406 I cant remember I'm afraid. I think I probably just selected the Yamaha DTX900 (DTX9 Series in Toontrack speak) setting. I may have had to change the midi notes for the inputs 5 and 6, but the kick and snare are universal Yamaha mapping so they would have been fine.

[@macca13drums]

Hi Simon, I find your videos excellent and very helpful. I’m using an RTOM Low Volume mesh head on my bass drum and am struggling to get consistent triggering through the EAD10. Do you have any pointers on the tension of the head and what trigger settings I should be using? I’ve got a DT50K trigger on.

[@edruminfo]

Hi. This should help sort you out - its just about how to set up the triggers correctly for your situation. Try this and see how you go. Follow it methodically. www.dropbox.com/s/quj8h3l7y173jqc/Setting%20Up%20Triggers%20on%20EAD%20.pdf?dl=0

[@macca13drums]

@@edruminfo - thank you very much for the rapid response. I really appreciate it. I’ll follow the guide this evening and see what happens.

[@BigChieff93]

Do you know if you could plug in different overhead mics to the ead10?

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Does the hip kit kick mesh head trigger OK with the DT50K? As I heard you have to larger 22” for best results.

[@edruminfo]

Any size bass drum works fine with mesh and a DT50K. I've used 16, 18, 20, 22" all with no problem.

[@countingdrums4967]

Hi Simon Can you use silent heads & a drum monitor rather than earphones with the EAD10? I have silent heads on my practice kit & bought a drum monitor in the hope I could hear the sound through the speaker rather than earphones (as an audience would). I'm getting a lot of humming & feedback because I have to put the volume up high to hear anything. I've tried different settings, positioning & volume levels & auto calibrated the microphones but nothing helps (mic to monitor about a metre). I'm new to this so am I trying to do something it's not designed to do? Is it acoustic heads for live through a PA & silent heads for headphone practice only? I've asked my local drum shop & they're investigating but suggested I ask you. 🤔 Thanks Tracey (I have the 2.0 software update). 🤞

[@edruminfo]

Hi. Yes, you will get feedback in that situation as the EAD is a microphone system, not an electronic kit. The microphones in the Sensor on the bass drum are picking up the sound of your kit, sending it to the speaker, where the sound is coming out, where it is being picked up by the microphones in the Sensor on the bass drum, being sent to the speaker, where the sound is coming out, being picked up by the microphones in the Sensor, being sent to the speaker... I'm sure you can see where this is going! Thats the nature of sound, microphones and speakers I'm afraid. Its the same as a guitarist sitting in front of their amp with the amp turned up - it will feedback (the howl). In a gig situation, the PA speakers are pointing the other way so the drum sound is being sent away from the kit, so feedback doesn't happen. Best to use headphone or In Ear Monitors (IEM) if you are in a small room.

[@countingdrums4967]

@@edruminfo I suspected it was the microphone issue but thought I'd ask. The shop have offered to take the monitor back if this is the case as they hadn't come across this question before. Back to the headphones for practice then but will definitely try it live through the PA. Thanks Simon! 👍🏻

[@ivanandrade5195]

Thank you Simon for your kind reply. I understand perfectly what you say, maybe my bad English does not allow me to express myself well. My question was that if I connect the EAD10 to my MacBook via USB, I could use my drumkit as any other MIDI controller and trigger the EZD3 sounds, i.e., my acoustic drumkit will work like an electronic one. My acoustic drumkit has meshheads and low volume cymbals both EVANS db one). I also understand that by doing so, the acoustic and electronic sounds overlap in room. This is what I want to confirm. Thank you so much.

[@edruminfo]

Yes, it will, but you MUST use triggers (like Yamaha DT50) on the snare and toms.

[@ivanandrade5195]

I knew about that 2 triggers. Thank you so much Simon

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

My Snare with RTOM LV mesh heads now works very well with the DT50S. But can’t get the kick to work well with the sensors Trigger and the 22” LV mesh head. Is it recommended to add the DT50K or DT20 trigger instead? Heard that the EAD10 wasn’t designed for mesh heads and therefore struggles with larger kick drums. Another issue I have is that just my heal on the kick pedal can activate the trigger, even when set as low as “TRG SENS 7”.

[@edruminfo]

Hi. Yes, you need to use a DT50K or similar as (yes) the EAD wasn't designed originally for mesh. The reason your heal is triggering is that you have the gain set really high because you are trying to get the Sensor to trigger from mesh. If you use a DT50K, auto set up the trigger settings (or better still, set them manually) this issue will go away.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo OK. And which trigger would work best DT50K or DT20?

[@edruminfo]

@@lincolnmitchell6651 DT50K definitely!

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo I got the DT50K and have it working now via the EAD10. But doesn’t trigger well via the SSD5 plugin even though I have sensitivity on 13 it will not trigger unless I kick really hard. Not sure why as the Snare and Tom DT50S triggers I have work with SSD5.

[@edruminfo]

@@lincolnmitchell6651 If its not triggering SSD correctly, then your trigger settings inside the EAD need looking at again - its not triggering the EAD properly either. You need to go back and start again. Get the Gain right so it maxes on 127 only on your hardest hit. Turn up Minimum Level so it ignore anything quieter than you'd normally play. Set the Velocity Curve so it feels right. Turn OFF the Sensitivity (this is not Sensitivity like it is on a Roland module - this is different) and then slowly turn it up so it catches your quieter kick hits. You are getting confused with the Sensitivity which is messing up your trigger settings I think.

[@ivanandrade5195]

Simon, is it really really possible to use the EAD10 to activate the EZD3 sounds? I mean, the sounds picked up by the EAD10's microphones from real cymbals are converted into MIDI signals to trigger the EZD3 sounds ? I am deciding to buy the EAD10 and I am an EZd3 user. If this is possible, geat, I will buy EAD10 and use my acoustic drumkit such as, instead of complicating myself with low volume cymbals and two-zone triggers, etc. Thanks for your help

[@edruminfo]

Hi Ivan. I'm afraid you are misunderstanding what is happening. The EAD is NOT able to create midi data from audio - that audio you are listening to is triggers mounted on the drums (with mesh heads) triggering EZD and the cymbals are REAL cymbals being picked up from the EAD Sensor. The audio is a combination of real cymbals and VSTi drums. The EAD allows you to trigger a 5 piece acoustic kit. If you use mesh heads then they are quiet enough for the sound to be masked by the sound from the VSTi (EZD in this case). Does that make sense?

[@sweetthaiwilly147]

did you not have to remap any of the midi inputs? i have it running but the triggers are all mixed up. ie tom triggers cymbal

[@edruminfo]

Yes, I would have had to, but it only takes 30 seconds to change the midi mapping in the EAD - ezDrummer shows you what the correct MIDI notes are to trigger each instrument in the drop down menu on each instrument (ez2) or at the top left of the screen (ez3).

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

I heard that ports 5 and 6 can attach to DTX pads, each with 3 triggers, totalling 6. Don’t know much about pads, do you recommend a particular one?

[@edruminfo]

Hi. You can use ANY Yamaha 3 zone pads, so look at the TP65, TP70s, TP100, TP120, XP100, XP120, or any of the Yamaha 3 zone cymbal pads - PCY100, PCY135, PCY155, PCY175 etc

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

​@@edruminfo Can 2 DT50S triggers, trigger 4 zones total on ports 5 and 6? As currently I use the kick trigger port 1/2, to get 2 sounds on a Tom. Not sure why the kick is a dual trigger, as only 1 sound, so moved the kick to port 5. Another way of asking this is... How many DT50S dual sensor triggers can the EAD10 support. I brought 3 but can only seem to use 2 (triggering 4 sounds).

[@edruminfo]

@@lincolnmitchell6651 No. If you plug a DT50 into inputs 5 or 6 you will only get 1 zone out of each. It's to do with the different sorts of trigger signals (piezo and switch) that triggers put out. If you want 6 zones from 2 inputs - 5 and 6 - then you'll need to use 2x three zone pads. The EAD can support 5 DT50 - kick (into 1), ,snare (stereo, into 3/4 - snare input), 1 into 5, 1 into 6, and using a splitter cable, 1 into 2 (shared with the kick).

[@markmcharg5471]

How easy/difficult would it be to take the drum kit sounds from ezdrummer and add them to the ead permanently...

[@edruminfo]

You could easily sample a single layer from the drums in ezDrummer and load them into the EAD. The only thing is that to get a really good result, you need to multi sample - have many different samples at each velocity layer for extra realism. This would take up much more sample space than the EAD has, and the EAD isn't able to playback multi layer samples. If you want the detail and realism of ezDrummer or Superior Drummer, you need a computer.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo fascinating. I’ll look into multilayering. Does that happen automatically with the SSD plugin?

[@edruminfo]

@@lincolnmitchell6651 Yes, that happens automatically on all libraries like SSD, SD3, EZD, AD2, BFD etc. Its why most kits cant compete with a computer, but they are getting closer all the time.

[@rhythmcaster2018]

Can I use this setup for small live gigs. Mesh head drums with triggers and acoustic cymbals. Then sending everything through EAD-10 to the main board. Am I missed anything. Please feel free to suggest.

[@edruminfo]

Hi. Yes, its no different from an electronic kit with real cymbals and a couple of mics... but obviously MUCH more convenient. You'll need a fast computer but it will work fine.

[@rhythmcaster2018]

@@edruminfo Thanks for your reply. My computer kind of weak. Maybe a direct out from EAD-10 would do the job.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Very cool. Just read your email to a question I had via drummers only and just asked them another question which may also find it’s way to you. Maybe others watching this will want to know too. Q. Is it possible to hit a drum with a trigger and hear a VST sound? So in effect replacing the EAD10 sounds with the plugins sounds? I have Logic Pro as the DAW with SSDrums free VST plug-in.

[@edruminfo]

Hi. Yes. That’s exactly what I’m doing here. Connect the EAD to your computer. Choose the EAD as the audio interface for the computer. Choose the EAD as the midi input for the VSTi. Choose the sound you want in the VSTi. Play. You’ll hear the cymbals coming through the Sensor and then through the master outs and headphones, and the VSTi drum sounds will come through the master and headphone out of the EAD. The mesh heads won’t make much noise to the VSTi will cover them up and as long as you have a fast computer it will sound like you’re playing the VSTi through the EAD.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo awesome I’ll give that a go! This post was Perfect timing !

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

​@@edruminfo Not sure how to "Choose the EAD as the midi input for the VSTi" and "Choose the sound you want in the VSTi". I see a mapping feature in SSD5 and a Load preset feature that loads .iom files. Any help appreciated.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Worked it out. 1. I had no volume so it wasn't just "Master" but "Audio/Click" that needed turning up on the EAD10. 2. I had to reduce "Trigger" dial to 0, to avoid hearing the regular EAD10 sounds. Actually, it's good to know I can have both sounds SDD5 + EAD merged togther if need be. Just trying to work out why my Reverb and Effect dials on the EAD10 now seem to be very low in volume. Not sure if this is realated.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

I see, "Revreb" and "Effect" volume increases when Mic sensor unit value is increased. I was on -24, so set it to +0. Any loader and the cymbals (real) are too load.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

Would be great to get some pointers on getting the best triggering for ghosts notes via Yamahas ST50S snare trigger as I’m almost ready to look for new triggers.

[@edruminfo]

It's not the triggers - it's knowing how to get what you want from them. ALL triggers work the same - they have a piezo pickup wired to a jack. If you cant get one brand to work, it's unlikely that you'll get another brand to work. Yes, some brands work better with certain equipment, but as you have an EAD and DT50 triggers, you already have the optimal combination. No triggers are 'plug and play' (despite what you may think) - you need to make them work for your playing style, and technique. If you use the DT50 presets you'll get pretty close. If you want a hack - squash a piece of Moongel (or similar) between the head and the sensor of the trigger. You will need to raise the gain in the module so it peaks at 127 on your hardest hit, but it really helps.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo OK, I'll try that.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfoHow do I see when the Snare trigger is peaking to 127. As it is not like the sensor Trigger which shows a sliding indicator next to "TRG127".

[@edruminfo]

@@lincolnmitchell6651 Menu, Trigger, Pad Type, scroll down until you see Gain. Press F3 (TRG) and the number in the top right window on that screen in the number you are interested in. It should only get to 127 on your VERY hardest hits. Press Exit to go back a screen and adjust the gain.

[@lincolnmitchell6651]

@@edruminfo OK I managed to change it. Thx - a little obscure but see the "V: 127" when hit VERY hard now. Will have a play and report back.

[@julioredondo4040]

estoy probando con superior drummer pero el trigger del bombo el programa lo reconoce como un tom y un cymbal no se como configurarlo correctamente, puedes ayudarme?

[@edruminfo]

Hi. Yes, easy. You need to make your electronic kit send the same midi notes to SD3. Each drum or cymbal has a midi notes assigned to it so that SD3 knows which instrument to play. At the moment, your kit is sending different notes to SD3 for some instruments, so it is playing the wrong sound. You need to change the midi notes in the module JUST for the ones which are not making the correct sound in SD3. OR go into SD3 and choose the correct midi preset so that it chooses the correct sound. Are you using the EAD? If so it is easy.

[@sweetthaiwilly147]

This is the only video I could find of someone using the Ead10 to trigger with a vst through the USB midi. I have searched everywhere. So this definitely works? You can capture the midi inputs and the stereo mic on the ead10 at the same time? I would assume that the daw would only interact with it as a midi or microphone, not both simultaneously. I like to see a video of this actually being done. Or at least some solid conformation that it works. This video being the only source even remotely talking about this functionality makes me skeptical about the whole thing.

[@edruminfo]

Yes. It works. Why wouldn’t it? It’s only audio and midi data. What you do with the midi data is up to you but it’s easy to combine the audio from the EAD and the midi and come up with some great sounding results.

[@mapex311]

​@@edruminfo Probably stupid questions but: 1) Can you use normal acoustic heads and just turn off the EAD10 sensor/ only use the drum triggers? Assume this will mean no cymbal sounds... 2) I have the EAD10 'output L/R' go into a mixer board because I also use overhead mic's to pick up cymbals and from there, it outputs via USB as a stereo mix into Reaper. Would the midi data also transfer or only the stereo mix from the mixer board? Suppose would still get everything including drums. Trying to think of how to do this with using normal heads instead of mesh heads -get the trigger/ midi data from the EAD and cymbal sounds from the overheads. Not sure if this is possible though with the EAD10

[@edruminfo]

@@mapex311 1) yes, but why would you want to - you aren't using the most important 80% of the EAD module. Would make more sense to buy a very cheap module and some triggers. No, you would get no cymbals. If you want to do that you've described, just put some mesh heads on the kit, use the EAD, trigger the sounds AND have the cymbal sounds. 2) If you have the EAD and the mixer connected, you would need to set up an Aggregate Device (on Mac, not sure if it is possible on PC) to combine audio inputs. Then you could record the audio and midi from the EAD and the audio from the mixer.

[@mapex311]

@@edruminfo Thanks Simon, just trying to do this as I dont care for 95% of the EAD10 sounds; a few are decent - ie compressor - but when I use that I find that it stifles the cymbal sounds quite a bit. So wanted to also use overheads to round out the sound. BUT doing this will also pick up acoustic drum sounds so only good solution is mesh heads; I've played on them at Guitar Center a few times and never cared for the feel but perhaps they could grow on me over time. Looks like the aggregate piece can potentially be done using the ASIO4ALL 3rd party windows audio driver to combine both the mixer USB and EAD10 USB audio sounds. I also assume that both USB's would need to be plugged directly into the PC. And the volume of each device would be controlled at the device itself. Something to think about....thanks for the tips though

[@mapex311]

Do you hear the replaced drums from EZdrummer live in the DAW? Or did you upload the EZdrummer trigger sounds into the EAD10?

[@edruminfo]

If you listen very carefully, you MIGHT be able to hear the sound of the sticks hitting mesh heads, AND the real cymbals, but the mesh head sound is masked by the samples from EZdrummer, so you just hear EZdrummer drum sounds with your cymbals (listen to the example). EZdrummer is running on the laptop and running as a VSTi plugin, I did NOT load EZdrummer samples into the EAD as the EAD can only play a single layer sample at a time, not the multilayer, multiple round-robin samples that EZdrummer plays back.

[@mapex311]

@@edruminfo Thanks Simon - I think I understand. Just to clarify though - I'm just wondering what exactly you hear when you're monitoring drums. ie - I have an EAD10 and I currently hear during live play, the acoustic drums + any effects, reverb, trigger. Now If I change to mesh heads and use EZdrummer, will I hear the triggered samples live as I am playing? And is there any delay? Assume so just wanted to make sure.

[@edruminfo]

@@mapex311 Ah, I see. Gotcha. If you choose 'EAD' as your audio interface, the computer will send the EZdrummer sounds to the EAD and you will hear it (yes, in real time) through the headphone and master outs of the EAD. Delay, or latency, is mostly down to how fast your computer is. I use a MacBook Pro and the latency is hardly noticeable. You will need to use triggers too to get the MIDI data to fire EZdrummer.

[@mapex311]

@@edruminfo Perfect thanks Simon!

[@Autopsy17]

How did you record the audio from ez drummer

[@edruminfo]

I recorded it all into Logic on my Mac. ezDrummer was open as a VSTi, I was recording the EAD as audio and MIDI. I just combined them as I wanted.

[@Autopsy17]

Nice