YamatoCannon and Bwipo go over his Toplane Tier List

Bwipo recently dropped a champion tier list for the toplane. To discuss over it, Yamatocannon invited Bwipo to a voice call. Do you agree with Bwipos Tier List or would you rank the champs differently?
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[@HentaiWarlord]

I think this would be better if he made 2 seperate tier lists for how hard it is to be useful and how hard the champs are to master instead of factoring both in because some of the rankings feel a bit onconsistent which yamato brought up

[@ryanforgo3500]

It's very rare to find someone who highlights singed power, respect to bwipo. Singed's hard for how he requires very unique macro and strategy. Micro is not the problem with singed.

[@CANWEGETMUCHHIGHERRRR]

Hes the only singed who ever be played in lec

[@ryanforgo3500]

@@CANWEGETMUCHHIGHERRRR nevertheless the champ has some unique complexity to it

[@NoobNoobZug]

​@@CANWEGETMUCHHIGHERRRRthats not true

[@CANWEGETMUCHHIGHERRRR]

@@NoobNoobZug No? Who played it also?

[@sentoo7606]

@@CANWEGETMUCHHIGHERRRR impact no?

[@77crow62]

Listening to this conversation I can't help but realize Nemesis knows these unique decision makings really well

[@Djangotot]

Why

[@turbanheadless]

This table is super dependant on what elo you play in

[@gardmyhr6121]

no its not

[@alexanderatanasov5837]

Feel like putting Aatrox at the 5-10 games while Sett is at the 30-50 is a crime :D

[@Kylec0pezTR]

It's because Aatrox you need a few games to get a feel for the timings on his trading patterns and knowing your Q sweet spot range by instinct, but once you've got that down basically every lane plays the same whereas Sett requires a lot more specific matchup knowledge because he's a lot less skill expressive. You've got to pick your trades a lot more carefully as Sett to get advantages while Aatrox kinda autopilots himself during lane phase.

[@alexanderatanasov5837]

@Scarlette ye no... a skill expressive champ auto pilots himself, plays everything the same way every time and is easier to play. Got it.

[@Kylec0pezTR]

@@alexanderatanasov5837 Maybe I worded it wrong, when I say skill expressive I mean in the sense of hitting his abilities. There's a lot more room to mess up the sweet spots and the W pull but once you have a handle on that he's pretty easy to pilot whereas Sett is very simple in execution but requires much better decision making and matchup knowledge to succeed. Outside of a couple hard counters Aatrox pretty much plays every lane exactly the same on the other hand which removes the burden of knowledge from the player, they don't have to worry so much about picking their fights because as long as they don't fuck up their combos he pretty much just wins them all.

[@josephtaylor6545]

​@@alexanderatanasov5837 Sett also has certain interactions that you have to play around otherwise you get hard dumpstered. Aatrox has a few but if you are hitting Q sweet spots with a few exceptions (Fiora for example) you do kind of just win.

[@QuinnTalen07]

Try to play as Sett against Aatrox. Try both winning lane and winning teamfights. Good luck.

[@longlifetometal1995]

7:40 I was in lobby at the same time, the chat wasn't moving and I was thinking "where the fuck do these messages pings come from ?" lmao

[@hosseinmehdipour2996]

What unique decision making does Rumble need? Is it just his heat mechanic or am I missing sth?

[@JokoeurXXI]

Picking those champs in the first place and also his R can turn a teamfight around.

[@stinkyuhoh999]

i think manage heat and a good ult can change a team fight

[@yuujiendless7719]

it is rly easy champ to win the line, bcs a lot of people dont realize how much dmg he deals. However that champ fall a lot after like everybody have 3 items so in my opinion the hard thing is make right desision to play smart and win fast, otherwise u will just get outscaled and loose (and manage his passive of course do have that heath bar over 50% but not going to overheat)

[@andreykovachev7002]

About rumble you need not only to know how to play the champ but also your team also need to learn how to play around your ult.

[@titangourmand]

i play a lot of rumble, i would say winning lane is not that hard even if certain matchups you need to do a lot of things right can't smash your keyboard like a darius (even if you have certain things), winning the game tho is hard as fuck, you can't side, you have a "unique" kind of playstyle, you can't play tp you get outscale so you roaming and finding picks need a coordinated team

[@gamingfunnel]

Quinn mains be like 😑

[@Sasa-ut1tb]

Illaoi should be in pedofile tier

[@Milxno]

based opinion

[@thepredhulkchronicles5934]

I’m looking at the comments and seeing a bunch of people complain about where champions are placed and stuff. But here I am wondering who in the world is playing viktor top???

[@fistybaby9489]

⁠I’m a Gwen otp, only D3 rn but my peak is masters. Imo gwen is kinda like a weaker old akali in a way. You need to get to level 6 and you have a legitimate chance to win any match up. But how well you do with Gwen in a game HEAVILY depends on how you play the first 5 levels, cs, and itemize. Now obviously you need to be able to consistently land your center Qs and at least 2nd and 3rd Rs but I would say the other three things I mentioned are a bit more important. Basically any match up in top lane for gwen that isn’t a low damage tank( I say low damage because an ornn can legitimately 1v1 you at almost any stage in the game) is either a skill match up, hard matchup that isn’t Gwen favored, or a counter pick. Gwen doesn’t really have match ups that she just wins like so many other top laners. So I’d say while yes Gwen isn’t a super difficult champion when it comes to combos, your ability to consistently land skill shots, having a deep understanding of your match ups because A LOT of them become unplayable if you make 1 or 2 mistakes, understanding when and what items to builds, and overall macro on her makes Gwen a pretty difficult champion.

[@xerodight2057]

Ornn, Sion, and Malph should be "Auto win with monitor off".

[@Xcalibris]

Hahahhaha😂

[@eriksavage2746]

thats basically what he said

[@austin4990]

Idek, maybe in high elo.. I was always hard locked and otp singed this season and i just stomp orrns, sions and malphs. and they supposedly counter me... just run conq and flippem on skill check spells.

[@gorgistanojevik3196]

@@austin4990 I don't think it's good to base your opinion only playing one champ, also Singed counters Sion and Malphite pretty well but Ornn just outscales him I think usually so the only really good thing is using your W to stop his R2.

[@austin4990]

@@gorgistanojevik3196 Ive been buttfucking orrns since s6, but i am a one trick so idk... any singed players reading this jus run conq an rush demonic, youll slap the meta fags.

[@user-vj6qk6jh3x]

Where is teemo?

[@JesusZeuDog]

I feel like Gnar should be either in the 30-50 or unique decision making required otherwise I'm pretty much sold on the rest

[@aleksanderwilk4472]

I've played like 10 games with gnar and i won them all in d1-master. It was easier than playing malphite tbh

[@ziemvanlieshout5796]

​@@aleksanderwilk4472 in late game gnar needs perfect buildup for his big form which is rlly hard, if u get big gnar too early the enemy team just waits and then all in. Laning phase isnt that hard but later on u could become super useless

[@JuneAssassin21]

You can be 2k gold down on illaoi and still win side lane that champ requires no thought

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

You can be 3k gold lead on ilaoi and still lose the game to a 0-5 adc because every ranged champ in the game Shits on her. Literally just don’t stand in clear e line of sight…. And don’t all in when her ult is up, free lp You can literally make her useless by baiting out her ult with a fake all in a then leaving

[@andrescoloma6652]

Illaoi is one of the worst champions in the game, she is nothing if she doesn't land E and she gets kitted to death by every single ranged champion and even some long range melee champions like irelia or Riven can autospace her. She doesn't have CC, speed or mobility. Her animations are slow and stop her from moving so she is bad using ghost to solve her problems (opposite to garen or darius) + you just need to avoid anyfight when she uses her telegraphed ult. Honestly, in low elo I understand she can obliterate lanes, team fights and she is frustrating to play against because her stats are overtuned. But in any decent game she is one of the worst champions in the game.

[@kcal12]

@@andrescoloma6652 it's like you're just saying random shit, because saying Illaoi is the worst is an international war crime. She's insanely overpowered. What are you even on about. Does she have counters? Sure. Can one outplay her, sure. But it doesn't make her weak because of it.

[@sonysdad4709]

illaoi is only really easy if the other team doesn't even remotely know how to play since if not you need to play heavily around your passive tentacles and landing a relatively slow skill shot on top of hoping the enemies don't just walk away

[@andrescoloma6652]

@@kcal12 yes, she is insanely overpowered in low elo as I said, and It seems like there is where you probably play.

[@rank1frombottom]

I found out how hard it is to space with rumble’s flamethrower the hard way kek

[@XAEX12]

Guys for us mere low elo players it's fair to say most champions takes 50 - 100 games to become skilled (not mastery) at a champion

[@ELGUAPOIV]

Why does this dude have like ten filters to make his voice sound like that 😂

[@juri5310]

can find somthing like this with junglers somewhere? I mean with high level experts like Yamato an Bwipo?

[@joeosborn6911]

feelsbad for all the quinn mains

[@kwinnagares3715]

Was looking for her for 2 minutes straight

[@leonidas7625]

Am i blind ? where tf is teemo ?

[@robtheshoveler1414]

His passive makes him invisible

[@pixel-rageunbound1935]

I hardly disagree with Shen being in the same tier as Sion and Malphite

[@evenjesuscantsaveyouanymor6163]

I mean just the existences of shen ult discourages so many plays and allows your team go unpublished.

[@matissstepulenoks7452]

should be lower

[@cristianoyagmurdzhy9535]

lane= requires a bit of wawe management (that everyone should know) and to just know to a LITTLE bit of macro to be functional

[@nicosi2010]

Nah hes right where he belongs, he has more skill expression than something like malphite but just like malphite ult, his ult simply being up gives insane amount of power to your team

[@diasvt.r4481]

where quinn? 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 (she might go on autowin lane but skill req, similar to akshan and vayne)

[@georgepapaioannou9756]

aatrox gnar dont require unique decision making to win, but ww does? xdd

[@ethandoan6271]

They don’t? Warwick plays the game a completely different way.

[@axel978]

@@ethandoan6271 warwick is a dumbass champ

[@vovakorotkikh5161]

WW auto wins almost any lane, but wtf do you do after enemies get to their third items, you’re useless you need to exude pressure super early and do a lotta shit to win. Gnar is just get mega jump in R W almost every fight there is.

[@axel978]

@@ethandoan6271 y and thats the pb. Warwick and trynda play raid shadow legends or tetris idk. They dont play a moba. Give those champs to a kid of 8 yo he can do fine

[@fastcow7013]

@@vovakorotkikh5161 ww auto wins almost any lane LMAO WHAT YOURE ILL

[@odinxrk1424]

Irelia should be one tier up tbh, its very easy to put yourself in a bad position with her and she supports aggressive gameplay but that can be very dangerous for players that are used to champs like olaf akshan or anything like that. She's very unique in her decision making, on top of that 80% of her matchups are really rough, its really easy to lose lane by dying once and being absolutely useless the entire game because of that.

[@odrater6698]

Why does Yamato have a G2 ad on the bottom?

[@amrmounayer9617]

He is the official g2 costream of MSI

[@hardytian]

Umm. Jax in skill required category…

[@mitsuki1388]

"Gwen is intuitive" Yes but it's not like she's super strong in lane phase and she needs to navigate so many difficult match-ups to survive before she can carry.

[@PaladineAvenger1]

eh? she is super strong on lane. its just some bruisers that are even more scary, like riven that are hard matchups

[@fistybaby9489]

@@PaladineAvenger1I’m a Gwen otp, only D3 rn but my peak is masters. Imo gwen is kinda like a weaker old akali in a way. You need to get to level 6 and you have a legitimate chance to win any match up. But how well you do with Gwen in a game HEAVILY depends on how you play the first 5 levels, cs, and itemize. Now obviously you need to be able to consistently land your center Qs and at least 2nd and 3rd Rs but I would say the other three things I mentioned are a bit more important. Basically any match up in top lane for gwen that isn’t a low damage tank( I say low damage because an ornn can legitimately 1v1 you at almost any stage in the game) is either a skill match up, hard matchup that isn’t Gwen favored, or a counter pick. Gwen doesn’t really have match ups that she just wins like so many other top laners. So I’d say while yes Gwen isn’t a super difficult champion when it comes to combos, your ability to consistently land skill shots, having a deep understanding of your match ups because A LOT of them become unplayable if you make 1 or 2 mistakes, understanding when and what items to builds, and overall macro on her makes Gwen a pretty difficult champion.

[@ghibli5111]

I feel like what Bwipo said about Aatrox and Vlad (even if u are a bit behind u can enter a fight and "be useful" dealing a shit ton of damage) should be the same for Gwen. It is even easier to do a shit ton of damage with her imo, W helps, R range helps...

[@lucaskiwamen3638]

Where's termo?

[@Earl357]

Sadge no Quinn on the tier list :(

[@PeepeepoopooBD]

Where’s Tahm Kench

[@inigorey8733]

Where's teemo?

[@JgHaverty]

Too many sycophants here. Sett is more nuanced than he appears; yes absolutely. Putting him at/above FIORA, AKALI, CAMILLE, JAYCE, IRELIA, and RIVEN is absolutely full send stupid. "you can press r and whiff your w"... It really just seems like the basis of difficulty is "how easily you can screw up" versus "how easy it is to play and master". Some legitimately hot takes and questionable choices on this list for sure. With respect, I love bwipo; but while his ideaology is spot on (as usual) the implementation of this list is bizarre at best lol.

[@wightknight7056]

Took my heist elo with GP. I don't fell like he is hard, he need just some games and you can cooking with him

[@lorenzopiva9322]

This comment section is braindamaged. They all failed comprehension reading in middle school

[@cripplewitharipple8149]

lol that disgusting quinn player's comment on the post 💀

[@ercanoguzyldrm4499]

İmagine Putting aatrox to the tier with full of champions that brainlessly runs you down

[@snakeinabox7220]

The fuck is Gp doing up there. Get below rivven. Jayce and rumble. Also Put shen in 5-10 games. Since he does need sum time to get used to and decent map awareness. I know this is for higher elo, but still

[@Walking_Softly]

No Quinn 🦅

[@Danger.Mapper]

Since when Renekton is autowin lane? Maybe in the past but definietly not right now

[@alexblasco2004]

gwen in the same tier as riven hurts a bit

[@jeyserreacts3444]

Playing range in order to trade is so much harder than animation cancels

[@infiniteearth6996]

@@jeyserreacts3444 literally every Melee champion has to do this it’s takes way more mechanical skill to pilot riven than Gwen

[@Amaling]

Meh, I think Gwen’s gameplan is a bit more complicated and she has more vulnerabilities. Riven at 1 2 items pretty much has no downtime no difficulty navigating etc. Animation canceling is not too difficult, your punishment for messing it up is not too much. If you mess up on Gwen you only have 1 dash and if you mess up usage of the ult slow, gg Them being same tier sounds about fair. Personally I’ve had more difficulty with Gwen but I also have better than average mechanics for my play level. Riven harder micro, Gwen harder strategy and fight target selection

[@ItsGioven]

​@@jeyserreacts3444 animation cancels is not the hardest part of riven lol

[@fastcow7013]

@@infiniteearth6996 nah not really riven wants to all in whenever she gets the chance

[@Manwu5]

Makoai 10 games to become decent kewk. Gl playing a champ with ultra high mana costs and getting beaten by almost every enemy toplaner

[@sieghart367]

Depends of your matchup. Mao is extremely simple and linear, you can’t fuck it up + you’re a tank. Just don’t spam your spells I legit first timed maokai vs trynda in 300lp because my champ don’t work against trynd + malph was banned and carried the game because of itemisation.

[@BJs4MePlz]

In soviet russia

[@iAdzii]

vayne is auto win top? say that to every vayne that goes 0-10 in my ranked game, garbage top

[@h4imon]

hardest is fiora

[@nipnop4954]

why does he keep restating what the tier list represents lmao, he fails each time too

[@sonysdad4709]

sett 30 to 50 lmao and putting vlad in 5 to 10 in hilarious if he wasn't a pro player I'd think this is like a gold player tier list

[@Jyp4Nk]

Bwipo is sooo disconnected from Solo Q.......

[@nikolasioakimidis3003]

This tier list looks straight out of bronze

[@nikolasioakimidis3003]

@Hidetaka Miyazaki ofc I am

[@nikolasioakimidis3003]

@Hidetaka Miyazaki good, you get to live another day

[@BugattiONE666]

YASUO YONE AND ILLAOI ARE HARD BUT RENEKTON IS AUTO WIN wtf am i looking at

[@sh1nzen]

Idk what you're on. Yasuo on the toplane is insanely hard, yone is a bit easier but still he's quite difficult. Renekton is an early game domination champion, so he basically autowins LANE, consequently fits in his category perfectly.

[@BugattiONE666]

@@sh1nzen ...his entire damage output consists of BotRKs, thats it, he literally loses to nasus. Oh and before you say "oh skill issue" IVe played nasus and beaten renek early too. As for Shyvana, my other main, ill give u shes very easy to play, assuimg your opponent cant just out poke off the farm. but in all seriousness the only champs ive seen autowin their lane are Yas, Yone, Irelia Fiora and Vayne, Illaoi its a case of winning the second you pick her in chamo select

[@araaraavery]

@@BugattiONE666 you think yasuos are out here just autowinning toplane matchups?

[@Avavago27]

@@araaraavery maybe the guy is underestimating his lvl 1 and 2 all ins and thinking the champ is autowin

[@TheFuriator]

Rene is most autopilot champ I ever played idk where you're coming from fr

[@basedkov]

bwipo is clueless, what he says about how "easy to play" all this champions are does not apply to 90% of league players

[@basedkov]

also urgot in the same tier with ire akali viktor jayce and fiora, man's smoking crack

[@basedkov]

AND WITH RIVEN 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 nahhhhh he's trolling no way

[@ThePerfect1077]

Ofc it doesn't apply to 90% of players. He said this is for vs good opponents, which is masters minimum, so

[@sieghart367]

@@ThePerfect1077 try 0.5% by todays standard

[@sonysdad4709]

@@ThePerfect1077 gangplank ruins everybody in higher mmr so if it's only aiming to higher tiered players then he shouldn't be nearly as high he should be 30/50 instead

[@jakiii368]

switch trynd with kled and put kled 1 tier up that tierlist is cope kled is the hardest champ to master in toplane and shares it with gp

[@nathanfogel4608]

Ya to be honest this guy is a clown to say, kled is as easy as olaf, darius, trundle, reneketon, and nocturne.

[@araaraavery]

@@nathanfogel4608 true multirole professional player of the game is clown. you can disagree ofc but saying bwipo is a clown or has no idea what he's talking about seems weird xD

[@nathanfogel4608]

@@araaraavery good players can still have clown takes, and clown moments.

[@elguerrero363]

gp hardest lool what a gp fanboy cant watch this

[@homyachock]

Don't watch.

[@elguerrero363]

@@homyachock i didnt

[@molorhaym]

I'm sorry what? Yorick a low skill champion? Has Bwipo even played Yorick? His E has quite possibly the worst hitbox in the game, and in fact I'd argue that you need 30-50 games on the champ to be useful. There are so many bad matchups for Yorick, when he's behind he's the most useless champ in the game. The fact that he can turn a lane 2v1 is completely irrelevant because if you know how deal with maiden then well RIP Yorick. He's completely in the wrong spot imo. I'd even go as far to say Swap Jayce's spot with Yorick.

[@ogdobogdo3384]

i think you dont even play Yorick

[@kwamaihosdil6584]

Yorick main plat 3 hard stuck here. Yorick has very few favorable match ups. Worst pre 6 champion. And if u kill maiden ur useless for 130s

[@lukazagi9183]

so yoric is harder than jayce? what am i reading. yoric in this tier because he has no mechanics really. same gameplann every game.. sidelane till you win or lose.

[@lorenzopiva9322]

Wtf just no lol

[@TheFuriator]

Agree, Yorick is tough to pick up af

[@ioakimantonis4687]

sry but that tierlist is completly bs

[@xazarl3381]

His tier list makes sense apart from Illiao, Sett should be in 5-10 and aatrox and vlad 30-50. WW should be auto win lane low skill variant the reason its so good is its strong in lane and people dont know how to play against it. Your never fearful of a ww in teamfights lol unless hes gigafed. Actually illiao should be auto win lane low skill variant its either useless or it wins lane and can 1v3 with ult. But the rest of it makes sense.

[@maxngan2197]

You're tripping if you think Illaoi wins lane instantly. She can easily win lane and 1v3, it dosent take much skill to do so but it requires the enemies to not know how to play against her. At the same time, she dosent just get fed and play like other bruisers, she has a unique way she has to play and approach the game even with a lead to win it.

[@xazarl3381]

@@maxngan2197 That doesnt mean its difficult

[@sonysdad4709]

vlad should be even higher he is not blindable in top lane in the current meta with almost no winning matchups into getting camped/zoned into oblivion by all the bruisers that just run him down or out damage him

[@shadenym5094]

I don’t think he’s talking about what works in low elo. Against really good players, it’d make sense that it’s hard to play sett well in teamfights

[@axel978]

kayle urgot and swain are already a fraud in their own tier. Then idk what he smoked to put warwick illaoi and tryndamere even higher up. Sion requires more skill than trynda, both in decision making and mechanics. Idk how nemesis and bwipo ended up making such trash tier lists tbh

[@GeogMilkyway]

It seems u know a lot

[@Anti-zioni]

> Sion > Skill and decision

[@cepamdrva3000]

and thats why they are pros and you are silver

[@stefan-ng9jr]

Jesus...top lane giga easy role if champ that needs 700gold to 1v9 are hardest

[@Brcnosaur]

Xd sure little bud

[@attorneygeneral4719]

Peak silver 100%

[@billybob4159]

What

[@antonbaydala9780]

Then climb to chally with it 😁

[@ImHat9]

XDXDXD cope more

[@CorelliSLS]

Have more than 75% winrate with Azir and u can tell that u mastered game

[@leaguefixesyourmatches8259]

isn't ww top ez laning?

[@HentaiWarlord]

not really, he needs to have insanely good damage foresight and knowing how much you can heal to go for plays , if you dont do that you will just exit lane 0/3/0 and be an ult bot that dies in 2 hits